EPT2015 UFC/MMA Discussion Thread - Page 19
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States24507 Posts
On February 09 2015 05:22 JimmiC wrote: just ignore JimmyJ he eventually got banned from the hockey thread for being ridiculous, going down the rabbit hole is never a good idea I don't know sounds like you may be part of the Jimspiracy... Jimmi C... haha Maybe I should write a letter to pollsters and try to get them to poll professional athletes on the steroids question. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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CorsairHero
Canada9491 Posts
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2015/2/8/8001233/report-ufc-blocked-2-17-million-payment-anderson-silva-ufc-news | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24507 Posts
On February 09 2015 12:44 CorsairHero wrote: UFC withholds 6 million in Silva's payment to wait for the commissions ruling http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2015/2/8/8001233/report-ufc-blocked-2-17-million-payment-anderson-silva-ufc-news I think his gate/ppv take was about 4.5-5 ish of the 6 million What percentage you guys think that was? | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18041 Posts
On February 09 2015 05:22 JimmiC wrote: just ignore JimmyJ he eventually got banned from the hockey thread for being ridiculous, going down the rabbit hole is never a good idea i subscribe to Greg Jackson's well publicized views of why steroids, HGH and other PEDs should be banned. and like i said if made legit in sports and MMA it opens up a whole can of worms as to at what age you should start taking HGH and Steroids and other PEDs. i dont think HGH and steroids are necessary at any stage of life... and i dont think children should be taking them to improve their athletic performance. as stated i used to have the "let 'em take whatever they want viewpoint" that others in this thread have. But, after watching teenagers take the stuff i changed my view. i don't feel my opinions are ban-worthy. Silva has been pulled from TUF Brazil and replaced by nogueira http://mmajunkie.com/2015/02/anderson-silva-pulled-as-tuf-brazil-4-coach-antonio-rodrigo-nogueira-steps-in i guess NSAC or NAC provided the UFC with some solid evidence? Silva's January 19th test came back totally clean though. http://www.mmafighting.com/2015/2/9/8006775/anderson-silvas-jan-19-out-of-competition-drug-tests-come-back-clean | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24507 Posts
On February 10 2015 06:44 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i subscribe to Greg Jackson's well publicized views of why steroids, HGH and other PEDs should be banned. and like i said if made legit in sports and MMA it opens up a whole can of worms as to at what age you should start taking HGH and Steroids and other PEDs. i dont think HGH and steroids are necessary at any stage of life... and i dont think children should be taking them to improve their athletic performance. as stated i used to have the "let 'em take whatever they want viewpoint" that others in this thread have. But, after watching teenagers take the stuff i changed my view. i don't feel my opinions are ban-worthy. Silva has been pulled from TUF Brazil and replaced by nogueira http://mmajunkie.com/2015/02/anderson-silva-pulled-as-tuf-brazil-4-coach-antonio-rodrigo-nogueira-steps-in i guess NSAC or NAC provided the UFC with some solid evidence? Silva's January 19th test came back totally clean though. http://www.mmafighting.com/2015/2/9/8006775/anderson-silvas-jan-19-out-of-competition-drug-tests-come-back-clean It's not really a can of worms. Kids are already using PED's, I agree they shouldn't, but it being banned in professional competition isn't why some kids choose not to. If they can sign their soul to be used as the military wishes or smoke cigarettes they should totally be allowed to use shit on their own bodies that is less dangerous. I'd be fine with having to get doctors to sign off on it and the use to prevent abuse and dangerous practices. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18041 Posts
it doesn't stop with HGH, PEDs and steroids. 14 year olds in the USA are getting tommy john surgery to improve their arm strength in baseball... there is a pretty good doocumentary called "Too Many Miracles" that covers it. pretty sad stuff. surgery to improve athletic performance. i've known 5 guys who gained 30+ lbs of muscle with the help of steroids. all of them continue to require hormonal support to just keep their levels in a normal range today. The oldest guy i know was in the 1992 olympics. he is over 45 now and still needs requires TRT 25+ years later. therefore, i prefer the status quo... steroids , HGH etc as either illegal or controlled substances. HGH, steeroids and PEds should be administered by a medical doctor for those with real health problems requiring it. And, HGH should not be used by 14 year olds who want to be better baseball/basketball/football players. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24507 Posts
On February 10 2015 07:28 JimmyJRaynor wrote: ya, it is a can of worms. it doesn't stop with HGH, PEDs and steroids. 14 year olds in the USA are getting tommy john surgery to improve their arm strength in baseball... there is a pretty good doocumentary called "Too Many Miracles" that covers it. pretty sad stuff. surgery to improve athletic performance. i've known 5 guys who gained 30+ lbs of muscle with the help of steroids. all of them continue to require hormonal support to just keep their levels in a normal range today. The oldest guy i know was in the 1992 olympics. he is over 45 now and still needs requires TRT 25+ years later. therefore, i prefer the status quo. HGH, steeroids and PEds should be administered by a medical doctor for those with real health problems requiring it. And, HGH should not be used by 14 year olds who want to be better baseball/basketball/football players. again, i prefer the way the laws are now. i'm glad that all this stuff is illegal in canada... and i don't see this changing any time soon. No one is suggesting feeding kids any of this crap... We're talking about adults and substances, which makes the performance surgery on kids comment even more inexplicable. Most people over 45 are taking a few pills anyway, not very devastating to add testosterone or whatever to that... | ||
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IgnE
United States7684 Posts
I can guarantee that there are exceedingly few 14 year olds "using HGH." That shit is expensive. Maybe the problem is with the culture glorifying sport without adequately warning kids of the extremely low prospects of success? Or the parents who encourage their kids to get the surgery? You are conflating a bunch of issues (surgery, parents' assent, kids secretly doing some kind of prohormone they got somewhere, legitimate TRT in older men), and you don't seem to understand the basic science underlying the substances. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18041 Posts
On February 10 2015 07:37 GreenHorizons wrote: No one is suggesting feeding kids any of this crap... We're talking about adults and substances, which makes the performance surgery on kids comment even more inexplicable. Most people over 45 are taking a few pills anyway, not very devastating to add testosterone or whatever to that... unfortunately, there are adults suggesting feeding these kids this crap and asking for surgeries to improve athletic performance. its the same group of adults who arrange for their kid to get tommy john surgery. whether surgery is worse than HGH/PEDs i don't know ; you'd have to evaluate that on a case-by-case basis. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24507 Posts
On February 10 2015 07:45 JimmyJRaynor wrote: he has been on same type of TRT for 20+ years. he did try to slowly wean himself off of it several times though and failed. unfortunately, there are adults suggesting feeding these kids this crap and asking for surgeries to improve athletic performance. its the same group of adults who arrange for their kid to get tommy john surgery. whether surgery is worse than HGH/PEDs i don't know ; you'd have to evaluate that on a case-by-case basis. There are adults suggesting kids blow them, but we don't outlaw blowjobs for adults...? I'm tired of the "think about the children!" arguments that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18041 Posts
On February 10 2015 07:53 GreenHorizons wrote: There are adults suggesting kids blow them, but we don't outlaw blowjobs for adults...? I'm tired of the "think about the children!" arguments that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. nope, but you do make the drugs at hand controlled substances. which isn't the same thing as outlawed. and bringing this back on topic, i hope this isn't some kind of defense for taking steroids when its against the rules in the UFC. its unfair for 1 guy to get to take steroids while the other guy follows the rules and does not take steroids. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24507 Posts
On February 10 2015 07:59 JimmyJRaynor wrote: nope, but you do make the drugs at hand controlled substances. which isn't the same thing as outlawed. No one is suggesting you sell them like candy bars at the check-out stands either. I was saying from the jump that just ask the athletes why they use or don't and if "the integrity of the sport" is only the answer for a few, than sorry to disappoint, but the integrity is already gone (when it comes to substance use). I guess there might be some worried about the health consequences but I suspect they are few particularly in MMA where the dangers of substances are minimal compared to the risk of getting in the cage at all. If that's the case (which most athletes would probably confirm it is) just let the ones who want to use them use them. I wouldn't suggest anyone use any of that crap without direction/monitoring from a medical professional. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18041 Posts
i pretty much subscribe to his view on PED use in the UFC. it starts at 5:45. | ||
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IgnE
United States7684 Posts
On February 10 2015 08:34 JimmyJRaynor wrote: here is that Greg Jackson interview i was referring to. i pretty much subscribe to his view on PED use in the UFC. it starts at 5:45. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsftymLzUfI Ok so you subscribe to his views that PEDs aren't part of the rules. That's fine. We were originally arguing over the absurdity of the rules. The arbitrary distinction between an exogenous "performance enhancing drug" and environmental factors that manipulate the endogenous production, or the arbitrary distinction between "my genetics" and "artificial enhancement" are just kind of silly. Do you want to reward work ethic, will, training, and diet or do you want to reward freakish genetics? I also find this concern over athletes' health pretty arbitrary. Steroids are definitely safer than getting punched in the head repeatedly for years. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24507 Posts
On February 10 2015 08:34 JimmyJRaynor wrote: here is that Greg Jackson interview i was referring to. i pretty much subscribe to his view on PED use in the UFC. it starts at 5:45. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsftymLzUfI There was nothing there... | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18041 Posts
On February 10 2015 08:50 IgnE wrote: Steroids are definitely safer than getting punched in the head repeatedly for years. as Jackson says in the interview.. getting punched in the head repeatedly for years by guys on steroids is a lot worse than just getting punched in the head. PEDs make a big difference for a fighter and also have serious long term side effects... which is why they are banned in competition and are controlled substances in 1st world countries. pretty simple and straightforward. letting anyone do anything leads to guys who look even more bloated than late 1980s WWE wrestlers. | ||
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IgnE
United States7684 Posts
On February 10 2015 09:34 JimmyJRaynor wrote: as Jackson says in the interview.. getting punched in the head repeatedly for years by guys on steroids is a lot worse than just getting punched in the head. PEDs make a big difference and also have serious long term side effects... which is why they are banned in competition and are controlled substances in 1st world countries. pretty simple and straightforward. letting anyone do anything leads to guys who look even more bloated than late 1980s WWE wrestlers. No. It's not a lot worse to get punched in the head by a steroid user than a non-steroid user. It's mildly worse. Rocky IV shows that Rocky can punch just as hard as Drago with his steroids anyway. But to pretend like the issue is steroids, rather than getting punched in the head is fucking silly. PEDs do make a big difference, but when used properly do not have long term side effects. Marijuana is a banned and controlled substance in most countries and yet it doesn't kill anyone. The federal scheduling of drugs has little to no correlation with the drug's actual impact. If a bloated 1980s wrestler can't fight better than a slimmer guy then people won't end up looking like bloated 1980s wrestlers. Don't be stupid. People take drugs to win, not get as big as humanly possible. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18041 Posts
On February 09 2015 12:44 CorsairHero wrote: UFC withholds 6 million in Silva's payment to wait for the commissions ruling http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2015/2/8/8001233/report-ufc-blocked-2-17-million-payment-anderson-silva-ufc-news UFC is saying this is not true. http://mmajunkie.com/2015/02/ufc-report-of-pay-withheld-from-anderson-silva-after-drug-test-failure-not-true "It is also worth noting the NSAC can only withhold the fighter purses as reported to them. Any PPV points or other undisclosed bonuses and pay can not be touched by a state commission. And, the UFC would be unable to legally withhold PPV points as they’re contracted agreements based on product sold and are not related to in-fight performance." | ||
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