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On February 06 2015 14:05 ieatkids5 wrote:
he says that at the high levels basically everyone uses PEDs. The only reason that athletes get caught is because of mistakes/negligence.
it depends on the kind of sport it is. different sports have different forms of abuse depending on whether the sport is more cardio or more power focused.
a sport with a really great mix of both cardio and power will have less abuse.. i think.
stuff like basketball, hockey, and european football .. will have less abuse than the 100 meter sprint.
the 100 meter sprint basically has 100% of athletes using PEDs.
i think the UFC/MMA is better off than the 100m sprint , but its not as clean as basketball, euro football, and hockey.
no matter what the sport PED abuse definitely benefits guys in their late 30s as their testosterone production is naturally declining.
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On February 06 2015 14:05 ieatkids5 wrote:
Does anyone watch Jason Blaha on youtube? His channel is about strength training and fitness, but he has also done a lot of drug test administration in power lifting, and is a competitive lifter as well. He occasionally talks about PEDs in sports (but he also mentions MMA specifically) and he says that at the high levels basically everyone uses PEDs. The only reason that athletes get caught is because of mistakes/negligence.
I've read this from other people as well, so I'm wondering what yall think. Do you think this is true? Assuming it is true, does it affect your views on doping in general? What about how it affects Silva's legacy?
More people are getting caught because the NSAC started random testing
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~40 year old man snaps tibia and makes return to competitive fighting in record time. And you guys expect him not to be on PEDs? That's a joke. I could have told you he was on PEDs before the test results came back.
Almost everyone is on PEDs at the top level of competition because they are 1) effective, 2) psychologically gratifying, 3) mostly safe when taken properly, 4) the public doesn't seem to know shit all about PEDs. It's a fool's errand to even try to stop them from taking PEDs, and honest people should prefer eliminating the sanctimonious penalties and testing altogether. But the twisted dream of "fair competition" and "natural athletes" that hangs in rags over every sport still infatuates all of the fans, most of whom don't know the first thing about sports science, training, or high level performance.
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On February 07 2015 06:36 IgnE wrote:
~40 year old man snaps tibia and makes return to competitive fighting in record time. And you guys expect him not to be on PEDs? That's a joke. I could have told you he was on PEDs before the test results came back.
Almost everyone is on PEDs at the top level of competition because they are 1) effective, 2) psychologically gratifying, 3) mostly safe when taken properly, 4) the public doesn't seem to know shit all about PEDs. It's a fool's errand to even try to stop them from taking PEDs, and honest people should prefer eliminating the sanctimonious penalties and testing altogether. But the twisted dream of "fair competition" and "natural athletes" that hangs in rags over every sport still infatuates all of the fans, most of whom don't know the first thing about sports science, training, or high level performance.
More physically dangerous if they don't take peds imo. If they tried to do their training regimens without peds, their bodies would implode due to all the accumulated stress without increased recovery from peds.
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On February 07 2015 06:36 IgnE wrote:
~40 year old man snaps tibia and makes return to competitive fighting in record time. And you guys expect him not to be on PEDs? That's a joke. I could have told you he was on PEDs before the test results came back.
Almost everyone is on PEDs at the top level of competition because they are 1) effective, 2) psychologically gratifying, 3) mostly safe when taken properly, 4) the public doesn't seem to know shit all about PEDs. It's a fool's errand to even try to stop them from taking PEDs, and honest people should prefer eliminating the sanctimonious penalties and testing altogether. But the twisted dream of "fair competition" and "natural athletes" that hangs in rags over every sport still infatuates all of the fans, most of whom don't know the first thing about sports science, training, or high level performance.
I wonder what the top athletes would (honestly) list as their top reason they don't use PED's (the few who don't/haven't)
The fear of health consequences
The fear of professional consequences
The integrity of the sport
Because if it's only a hand full of them that are actually 'pure' for the integrity or whatever, we might as well let them use them.
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On February 07 2015 07:41 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2015 06:36 IgnE wrote:
~40 year old man snaps tibia and makes return to competitive fighting in record time. And you guys expect him not to be on PEDs? That's a joke. I could have told you he was on PEDs before the test results came back.
Almost everyone is on PEDs at the top level of competition because they are 1) effective, 2) psychologically gratifying, 3) mostly safe when taken properly, 4) the public doesn't seem to know shit all about PEDs. It's a fool's errand to even try to stop them from taking PEDs, and honest people should prefer eliminating the sanctimonious penalties and testing altogether. But the twisted dream of "fair competition" and "natural athletes" that hangs in rags over every sport still infatuates all of the fans, most of whom don't know the first thing about sports science, training, or high level performance. I wonder what the top athletes would (honestly) list as their top reason they don't use PED's (the few who don't/haven't) The fear of health consequences The fear of professional consequences The integrity of the sport Because if it's only a hand full of them that are actually 'pure' for the integrity or whatever, we might as well let them use them.
this sounds reasonable , and its a view point i've sometimes held.
the issue comes when a guy who should weigh 160 lbs manages to get himself up to 260 lbs using PEDs and training like a maniac. and then the guy dies of a heart attack at 36 because his heart was designed to support a 160 lb body.
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On February 07 2015 09:45 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2015 07:41 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 07 2015 06:36 IgnE wrote:
~40 year old man snaps tibia and makes return to competitive fighting in record time. And you guys expect him not to be on PEDs? That's a joke. I could have told you he was on PEDs before the test results came back.
Almost everyone is on PEDs at the top level of competition because they are 1) effective, 2) psychologically gratifying, 3) mostly safe when taken properly, 4) the public doesn't seem to know shit all about PEDs. It's a fool's errand to even try to stop them from taking PEDs, and honest people should prefer eliminating the sanctimonious penalties and testing altogether. But the twisted dream of "fair competition" and "natural athletes" that hangs in rags over every sport still infatuates all of the fans, most of whom don't know the first thing about sports science, training, or high level performance. I wonder what the top athletes would (honestly) list as their top reason they don't use PED's (the few who don't/haven't) The fear of health consequences The fear of professional consequences The integrity of the sport Because if it's only a hand full of them that are actually 'pure' for the integrity or whatever, we might as well let them use them. this sounds reasonable , and its a view point i've sometimes held. the issue comes when a guy who should weigh 160 lbs manages to get himself up to 260 lbs using PEDs and training like a maniac. and then the guy dies of a heart attack at 36 because his heart was designed to support a 160 lb body.
Please link an example.
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Eddie Guerrero
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Guerrero
you can gain a few pounds of muscle using steroids. you can't go from 160 to 220 and expect zero problems.
steroids do not improve heart function.
everything i see says you are either lucky they don't screw up your heart or they have a negative impact by requiring your heart to support a larger body.
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You are conflating heart function with atherosclerosis. Yes, poor use of heavy steroids can lead to bad lipid profiles, including high LDL and low HDL that can lead to heart attacks. But that is not tied to muscle mass per se, nor the inability of the heart to "support" a larger body. The heart is a muscle. If anything athletes tend to have larger hearts than non-athletes, steroid users not excluded. But Eddie also appears to be a bad example because he was an alcoholic addicted to painkillers.
I think you are making up risks based on rare examples of people with a ton of conflating factors dying.
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i think if u r born with a heart built to support a 160 lb body you are putting urself at risk trying to stay at 220 lbs because you are asking your heart to do more work than it was designed to do.
is a larger heart a good thing? i think it depends how much larger.
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That's just not what happens. Look at the hearts of tour de france cyclists. They weren't "born" with a heart meant to carry them through the tour de france either, whatever that means to begin with. This is nonsense.
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a cyclist is not on the course 24/7/365... their heart has a chance to rest.
every pound of muscle mass ( or fat for that matter ) means more work for your heart to do.
and a larger heart doesn't necessarily mean a better heart. further testing is needed to determine if there is a problem.... with the term "enlarged" relative to the size of the human being examined.
but back to the original point here.
if its free reign on steroid use for pro ufc fighters .. at what age can they start to use steroids , HGH and other PEDs?
12? 14? 17? everyone's body matures at a slightly different pace.
free reign on PED usage just opens up this giant can of worms that is bad.
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On February 07 2015 14:46 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
a cyclist is not on the course 24/7/365... their heart has a chance to rest.
every pound of muscle mass ( or fat for that matter ) means more work for your heart to do.
and a larger heart doesn't necessarily mean a better heart. further testing is needed to determine if there is a problem.... with the term "enlarged" relative to the size of the human being examined.
but back to the original point here.
if its free reign on steroid use for pro ufc fighters .. at what age can they start to use steroids , HGH and other PEDs?
12? 14? 17? everyone's body matures at a slightly different pace.
free reign on PED usage just opens up this giant can of worms that is bad.
The same can be said for alcohol, marijuana, etc. There are numerous studies showing the deleterious long-term effects of exposure to alcohol and marijuana in kids and teens. But it's not like we ban their use just because they have outsized effects on developing brains. "Saving the kids" is just not an argument that should be taken seriously.
Just to reiterate: show me the evidence of heart failure in steroid users linked to muscle mass. Clogged arteries are one thing, but there is nothing that I have ever seen linking steroid use to overworked hearts. There are numerous studies showing that lean body mass improves health outcomes after traumatic injuries and that higher lean body mass reduces mortalityrate across the board. Check out irisin, which is a hormone released by muscle cells that is linked to longevity.
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That article barely mentions steroids, talking mostly about how "dangerous" consuming too much animal and dairy protein is since it supposedly raises levels of homocysteine. Once again this is related to arterial blockage via inflammation and plaque formation rather than your hypothesized link between lean body mass per se and the ability of the heart to pump blood. Is a person who jumps up to 220 supposed to have a racing heart all the time or something? I'm also skeptical of any site with articles advocating vegan bodybuilding.
Your example doesn't make much sense anyway. There are exceedingly few people who top out at 160 lbs without steroids. Presumably you are saying it's dangerous for dudes to add 60 lbs of muscle beyond what their body could naturally support if they were bodybuilding without steroids. Although maybe I'm misunderstanding you because the idea of someone being "born" to weigh a certain weight seems sillyon its face. If you took two twins and had one do cross country for ten years and the other do powerlifting or bodybuilding they will end up with pretty different bodies.
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You know who isn't? Rory Macdonald in Canada
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1WrRAvL.jpg)
