EPTNBA Offseason 2014 - Page 62
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Duncan though, while a better players gets a lot of leeway. This is mostly because not only is he quiet, but his team doesn't get much attention. Hence while their winning ways are largely ignored, their colossal failures are swept under the rug. The first round loss to Memphis is just called a bad matchup. Kobe loses to Phoenix with scrubs and he's crucified. SA gets absolutely drummed multiple times post 2007 in the playoffs with Duncan being out of shape and there isn't a peep. Kobe plays on a busted knee and doesn't win a chip and there are articles written about selfish play. Duncan had HORRIBLE games in the 2005 Finals vs Detroit and I bet most of you have no idea how bad he was at times because you didn't even see the games - and neither did most of the current media. Hell, people still want to compare Duncan to PFs to make him look better when he's been playing Center for over a decade. That is how you know Kobe's legacy is much bigger. His failures are displayed as outrageous examples of some character flaw, and his triumphs have people evoking mythical legends about his training and will to win. No matter what he does - there is a big story. Duncan doesn't have this impact as his wins while sometimes understated, don't register in people's minds and his losses are rarely displayed as an indictment on his character in the way Kobe gets from fan and writers. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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MassHysteria
United States3678 Posts
On July 22 2014 16:21 oneofthem wrote: i think kobe is really great and so on but people who invoke jordan comparisons are clearly lost. i guess it is hard to have perspective with the newscycle storylines. what people? writers? people in this thread? who are you talking about? edit: good post Ace | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
On July 22 2014 15:12 Ace wrote: Kobe's underrated (his individual scoring at such a high volume pre 09, his superstar play in 2 out of the 3 Lakers championships with Shaq) and he's overrated (his scoring ability when looked at over his entire career compared to MJ, vs top tier defenses compared to his contemporaries, defensive ability). The problem with Kobe is there isn't much consensus because his career is rife with media created story lines, often driven by Kobe himself. Kobe fans get defensive and rabid because compared to everyone else his failures are always brought up. Duncan though, while a better players gets a lot of leeway. This is mostly because not only is he quiet, but his team doesn't get much attention. Hence while their winning ways are largely ignored, their colossal failures are swept under the rug. The first round loss to Memphis is just called a bad matchup. Kobe loses to Phoenix with scrubs and he's crucified. SA gets absolutely drummed multiple times post 2007 in the playoffs with Duncan being out of shape and there isn't a peep. Kobe plays on a busted knee and doesn't win a chip and there are articles written about selfish play. Duncan had HORRIBLE games in the 2005 Finals vs Detroit and I bet most of you have no idea how bad he was at times because you didn't even see the games - and neither did most of the current media. Hell, people still want to compare Duncan to PFs to make him look better when he's been playing Center for over a decade. That is how you know Kobe's legacy is much bigger. His failures are displayed as outrageous examples of some character flaw, and his triumphs have people evoking mythical legends about his training and will to win. No matter what he does - there is a big story. Duncan doesn't have this impact as his wins while sometimes understated, don't register in people's minds and his losses are rarely displayed as an indictment on his character in the way Kobe gets from fan and writers. Agreed. I have to admit that I mostly forgot about those times when the Spurs and Duncan fell flat on their faces, even in perceived advantageous matchups. | ||
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FakePseudo
Belgium716 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16129 Posts
Why do we always need to compare them when their games are about as different as possible from one another? They and the teams they've been on have been absolutely dominant for almost 15 years. They each have FIVE fucking titles in the last 15 years. They both had plenty of help doing it too, playing on fantastic teams with the two best coaches in history at the helm. Far as I'm concerned they deserve to share the era, like Magic and Bird did before them. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13537 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16129 Posts
On July 22 2014 18:39 RowdierBob wrote: Fire up and give us an opinion fence-sitter! It's a matter of preference really. I love Kobe's game (impossible game winners, relentless drive) over Duncan's and the fact he's been in Purple and Gold (my home team) for 20 years gives me an incredibly biased opinion. But I can't overlook how fucking good Duncan has been for just as long as Kobe has been at the top of his game. Watching these two own the Western Conference for so long has been what has solidified my love of basketball after the Jordan era ended when I was a kid. They're both really fucking good. I love Kobe, he is my favorite player of all time, but Duncan is really fucking good too. If you're judging based on results, you can't pick anyone else from this era (Ace!  ) but if you're judging based on other things then it's very open to opinion. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13537 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16129 Posts
On July 22 2014 18:46 RowdierBob wrote: For so many reasons it would have been great if the heat and Lakers made the finals in 06. That 06 Lakers squad was so awful, the Heat would've absolutely decimated us. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13537 Posts
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Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
http://instagram.com/p/quAcwbylAI/ | ||
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
On July 22 2014 18:36 Vindicare605 wrote: I just don't see why we can't just call it even, Duncan is the best big man of his era ahead of Shaq, Dirk, Yao and others. Kobe is the best guard, ahead of Wade, Iverson, McGrady and others. Why do we always need to compare them when their games are about as different as possible from one another? They and the teams they've been on have been absolutely dominant for almost 15 years. They each have FIVE fucking titles in the last 15 years. They both had plenty of help doing it too, playing on fantastic teams with the two best coaches in history at the helm. Far as I'm concerned they deserve to share the era, like Magic and Bird did before them. duncan over shaq? in what way | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16129 Posts
Longevity and results. Shaq was more dominant when they were both in their primes, but Duncan's longevity, like Kobe's, cannot be overstated when discussing their overall careers. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
For example, Duncan has played almost a decade as a PF and almost a decade as a C. Gasoline similarly can play both riles depending on the team (with Bynum he played the 4 but with Odom he played 5). Is LeBron a SF or a PF? Historically I'd classify Duncan as a pf and LeBron as a sf.. mostly because otherwise you're comparing Duncan to Kareem, Hakeem, Wilt, Shaq, and Bill Russell which seems odd. Also hard to classify people who played in hugely different generations because of how much the game has changed. Is it really apt to compare Bill Russell to Shaq? He won 11 titles but during his time only had 1 player (Wilt) who could remotely compete with him. There was less talent and physical stature in the league. it's like trying to compare Boxer in 2000 to Flash in 2008... you just cant. Any "best X" in my opinion needs to be organized by generation then position, probably using 20 years as a guideline. I.e. 90s/00s etc. | ||
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