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On July 06 2014 19:27 Orcasgt24 wrote:
If PK Subban actually gets in front of an Arbitrator he will get a record setting reward. And after montreal takes the award they will lose Subban to free agency next year I think. They better get a deal signed now....
PK can't become an unrestricted free agent next year. You must be 27 years old by June 30 or have 7 years of service.
So, it will be a 2 year deal.
After 2 more years, all the political horseshit in Montreal will have left its mark on Subban and he'll wanna GTFO ( as you've mentioned )
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On July 05 2014 19:56 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2014 14:42 QuanticHawk wrote:On July 05 2014 10:20 StarStruck wrote:
I think you would have to watch him actually play that last season to really judge him man. Honestly he was one of our best players that season. He actually brings a lot to the table. He's not supposed to rack up the points. Darcy was a liability. Leo on the other hand wasn't in that season with the Leafs. Yes 3mil is a steep price but he brings the intangibles much like Carl Gunnarsson which a lot of people don't really understand. he's a 4th liner making $3m on a team that isn't in a great cap situation to begin with. He's good at what he does, but what he does is not worth $3m. I highly doubt you've seen enough of him to be saying what he does and doesn't bring to the team. Then again I've only seen him play one season for us and if he can do what he did in that same season I'm telling you the guy brings it and finishes every hit. He gets under guys skin without even flapping his gums unlike Darcy Tucker. The guy knows his role and he's very good at it and getting more guys to take penalties rather than himself taking a dumb one. I'd agree with the other guy in saying 2 to 2.5mil is more than fair and the fact of the matter is he wanted to come back to the Leafs. Also every little cocksucker is overpaid in the League so this is the norm and fuck Clarkson I never agreed with that deal to begin with. He's been a liability ever since he came. Leo on the other hand hasn't. At the end of the day, if you have beef with the Leo deal it should go back to the fact that the guy actually wanted to not only return to the NHL but return to Toronto and Nonis didn't abuse that fact when it came to negotiations. Why the heck wouldn't be take that multi year deal at 3 mil? He had no reason to refuse such an offer. Nonis could have got a better deal.
$2m is still the upper end of what a 4th liner with one year of nhl experience should be making. $3m+ is for established third liners who are good for 40ish pts a year or more (mason raymond) or highly touted prospects who have proven something but havent quite done enough to earn more yet (kadri). hitting and pking are not worth $3m per for four years. and his shit stirring ability is totally overstated by leafs fans. judging by the things ive read thus far, it would seem that people forgot Komarov's +6 was dwarfed by Kadri's +30 that year. kadri led the team again this year with 19.
of course i wouldnt blame komarov because anyone in his shoes would sign a cotnract when they're blatantly getting overpaid. All I am saying is that it is a stupid deal for nonis. He's a good fourth liner getting paid like a third. The only way it becomes an ok deal is if Komarov suddenly turns into a 40point or 20-20 player.
the problem with the leafs (their forwards at least) isnt that they get bullied. it is because their system means skill guys like kessel, jvr, lupul, kadri do not have the puck on their stick as much as they should. the fix isnt to get better defensive forwards. it is to sign cheaper skill guys like raymond and kulemin, and let them play to their strengths. the more the forwards have possession, the less the leafs mediocre d is exposed, the less shots they face. it's not a coincidence that, for several years now, almost all of the top teams have also been very good possession teams.
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He plays 3rd line minutes too man lol. He's not just a 4th liner and I wouldn't worry about the +/-. lol Kadri is a work in progress whereas Leo does what he's supposed to do. This is just some 'fans' overstating his effect. Look if you read the old threads I was basically the only one to comment on the fact that Leo was going off to the KHL. He's completely underrated. If there is one thing the organization knows it's that. Then again that was only one year so who knows if he will be able to be as effective as he was. Don't get me started on Kadri. I'd be ready to use him as trade bait because a lot of the projects the Leafs are working on with their prospects just isn't working out with the coach they're so hellbent on. I never said 3m for 4 years was a good deal. We can sit here and chat about all the stupid deals this year but it will just continue to go on and on. I watch almost every game and I see what the guy brings.
Also, the Leafs don't get bullied. Last year we didn't win as many fights as the year before it and the guys looked tired of Randy's msg. The 'fix' should be to get bigger and be able to cycle the puck more. Let's not play captain obvious. We know their glaring weaknesses.
As for Jim I did read it in full and you can keep spouting the same old shit we already know all you want. It doesn't change my point. Biggest city; most hated; only franchise worth over a billion; etc. No shit sherlock. Tell me something I don't already know. Oh wait, you can't. Now take a seat. I call that bullshit and I already pointed out how your wrong. See the thing is you can always find examples that go against it. Whether it be Eric Lindros and all that jazz. Guess what guys like Clarkson and Bolland were saying when they signed on with the blue and white. Oh, that's right. Bolland gets injured and comes back too soon and doesn't collect the multi-year deal with the ching ching and ofc he's going to walk. Raymond was ofc walking. Stop latching onto one thing and look at the bigger picture. At the end of the day guys still want to be paid. It's the same reason you see guys in the NBA walking away from hometown offers as well.
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the-new-minor-hockey-fights
Did you play hockey? If so where?
All my male relatives in Alberta complained about the politics, elitism and nasty tricks that went on through out their minor hockey league years. It turned the game into more of a job. By the time players reach junior age they are tired of playing in Canada and have some exposure to what its like to play outside of the fishbowl of the world's #1 hockey country.
When is the last time the best Canadian hockey player played in Canada? I'd say it was Wayne Gretzky in Edmonton more than 25 years ago, this is all subjective guess work though.
Here are some hard #s
Top point getting Canadians playing in Canada.
Jason Garrison 33 points as a defenseman
Taylor Hall 80 points 20 minutes of playing time per game on a team with 67 points
Mark Giordano 47 points as a defenseman
Bryan Little 63 points
Nazem Kadri 50 points
Jason Spezza ( now playing in Dallas ) 66 points.
PK Subban 53 points.
The microscope on Canadian kids playing hockey is sad.
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You realise that until a few years ago there were four times more teams in the US than in Canada, and even after Atlanta moved there are still 16 more? The best players in the world aren't in Canada because... they weren't drafted by Canadian teams. Wow.
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3/4ths would explain a few years in a row, not 26 years. You math whizzes should know that. If you think its a 26 year fluke that top Canadians avoid playing in Canada, whereas in the 1960s 70s and 80s they relished it, then have fun in your dream world.
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In 01-02 Iginla led the league in points, so there you go. You know why it's been so long since the best Canadian player played on a Canadian team? Because American team drafted/traded them, and a few players make up the majority of those years. How many of those 25 years are just Gretzky, Lemieux and Crosby?
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generational talents don't exactly move all too often but ok
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On July 07 2014 14:02 GolemMadness wrote:
You realise that until a few years ago there were four times more teams in the US than in Canada, and even after Atlanta moved there are still 16 more? The best players in the world aren't in Canada because... they weren't drafted by Canadian teams. Wow.
And up until recent times, most Canadian teams had no munniez. Even if they had top talent, they soon had to sell it.
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things:
preds sign volchenkov for 1 year 1m
mike fisher blew up his achillies, out up to 6months
brodeur is still unsigned. now that he's really running out of options, might he retire?
e: also some oilers prospect did a cool thing
http://instagram.com/p/qLHGHwmzLV/
naturally, they'll run him into the ground and out of town before he becomes something
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In fairness we the fans never ran Rob Schremp out of town. That was all MacT. We wanted to give Schremp a legitimate chance at playing top 6 minutes but MacT would only put him on the fourth line when someone got hurt. Mactavish literally killed that kids career.
Still, your probably right about what will happen :p. Slick move!
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On July 07 2014 09:11 QuanticHawk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2014 19:56 StarStruck wrote:On July 05 2014 14:42 QuanticHawk wrote:On July 05 2014 10:20 StarStruck wrote:
I think you would have to watch him actually play that last season to really judge him man. Honestly he was one of our best players that season. He actually brings a lot to the table. He's not supposed to rack up the points. Darcy was a liability. Leo on the other hand wasn't in that season with the Leafs. Yes 3mil is a steep price but he brings the intangibles much like Carl Gunnarsson which a lot of people don't really understand. he's a 4th liner making $3m on a team that isn't in a great cap situation to begin with. He's good at what he does, but what he does is not worth $3m. I highly doubt you've seen enough of him to be saying what he does and doesn't bring to the team. Then again I've only seen him play one season for us and if he can do what he did in that same season I'm telling you the guy brings it and finishes every hit. He gets under guys skin without even flapping his gums unlike Darcy Tucker. The guy knows his role and he's very good at it and getting more guys to take penalties rather than himself taking a dumb one. I'd agree with the other guy in saying 2 to 2.5mil is more than fair and the fact of the matter is he wanted to come back to the Leafs. Also every little cocksucker is overpaid in the League so this is the norm and fuck Clarkson I never agreed with that deal to begin with. He's been a liability ever since he came. Leo on the other hand hasn't. At the end of the day, if you have beef with the Leo deal it should go back to the fact that the guy actually wanted to not only return to the NHL but return to Toronto and Nonis didn't abuse that fact when it came to negotiations. Why the heck wouldn't be take that multi year deal at 3 mil? He had no reason to refuse such an offer. Nonis could have got a better deal. $2m is still the upper end of what a 4th liner with one year of nhl experience should be making. $3m+ is for established third liners who are good for 40ish pts a year or more (mason raymond) or highly touted prospects who have proven something but havent quite done enough to earn more yet (kadri). hitting and pking are not worth $3m per for four years. and his shit stirring ability is totally overstated by leafs fans. judging by the things ive read thus far, it would seem that people forgot Komarov's +6 was dwarfed by Kadri's +30 that year. kadri led the team again this year with 19. of course i wouldnt blame komarov because anyone in his shoes would sign a cotnract when they're blatantly getting overpaid. All I am saying is that it is a stupid deal for nonis. He's a good fourth liner getting paid like a third. The only way it becomes an ok deal is if Komarov suddenly turns into a 40point or 20-20 player. the problem with the leafs (their forwards at least) isnt that they get bullied. it is because their system means skill guys like kessel, jvr, lupul, kadri do not have the puck on their stick as much as they should. the fix isnt to get better defensive forwards. it is to sign cheaper skill guys like raymond and kulemin, and let them play to their strengths. the more the forwards have possession, the less the leafs mediocre d is exposed, the less shots they face. it's not a coincidence that, for several years now, almost all of the top teams have also been very good possession teams.
You guys really need to stop equaling corsi% with possession, because it's not the same thing. It's the +/- stat for shots. All it tells you is that you shoot more than you get shot at.
Toronto had the worst "Corsi Against" in the league. Their "Corsi For" was not good, but it was ok, which when put in the context of their poor Corsi Against is actually quite good. Clearly they have the capacity to create shot opportunities. Their major problem seems to be that they grant an enormous amount of shot opportunities to their opponents. The most logical conclusion you can make out of that is that they have major issues with defensive positioning. New Jersey and Los Angeles have the best Corsi Against in the league, and those are defensive teams that stays at home and doesn't give their opponents much room to create quality chances. This is why they have a good Corsi Against, because they're good at forcing their opponents to hold the puck and pass it around, rather than shoot. This is how SJ was behaving against LA.
Toronto seems to be the opposite of LA and NJ. So what they need to work on is their defensive positioning and discipline. Maybe their forwards needs to be more defensively responsible, or maybe their D is just crap defensively, you cannot tell what the exact problem is just by looking at the stats, but there's no doubt that Toronto's issue is their defense.
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Canada8159 Posts
In other news Crosby is getting wrist surgery
Let's stop talking about Toronto's depressing pickups please
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Corsi % is perhaps the best proxy (you're right, they aren't the same) for possession that we have. While I think your premise has some merit, that there is separation between shot creation and shot prevention, the two are greatly connected. You can use Corsi as a proxy for possession because possession usually means more shots attempted. There was a study done a year or so ago (I can find it if you want) where the author showed that once players gain the offensive zone, there is very little difference in shot creation. So a fourth liner and an all-star had very little difference in their "offensive zone abilities." What the study really showed is that entering the offensive zone with possession, rather than dumping and chasing, resulted in a shot event almost twice as much.
It's almost sort of common sense, and commentators have always seemed to know this deep down inside. Whenever people praised the Red Wings, the USSR teams, and others who try to emulate the style, they talk about puck possession. How the Red Wings will pass up a dump-in to circle back and get in the zone with possession. And those teams do really well!
So we know anecdotally that teams that possess the puck tend to win, and that empirically having possession when entering the offensive zone produces more shots. At that point you have to see that the neutral zone battle is the key to most hockey games. Sure, there are games where a player is sniping, a goalie is standing on his head, or the puck just won't bounce a certain way. But the good teams of the past 5-10 years have all known that possessing the puck in the offensive zone more than the other team is the key to winning.
Even if Toronto made their defense better (which they certainly can, it's a horrible system), they could what? Maybe break even in possession? Offense and defense are inextricably linked. The fastest thing on the ice is the puck, and when you value players who can find space to move/pass that puck towards the other team's net you beat all the other teams that value hitting, shot blocking, and the like.
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On July 09 2014 11:55 QuanticHawk wrote:e: also some oilers prospect did a cool thing http://instagram.com/p/qLHGHwmzLV/naturally, they'll run him into the ground and out of town before he becomes something
Jar Jar is a beast. Dude is like 6'3"/210 and is (I think) still a teenager - I hope he can have a career. At the very least, Oklahoma should be a better team this year o.o
On July 09 2014 16:45 Orcasgt24 wrote:
In fairness we the fans never ran Rob Schremp out of town. That was all MacT. We wanted to give Schremp a legitimate chance at playing top 6 minutes but MacT would only put him on the fourth line when someone got hurt.
Also, being a hockey player who couldn't skate probably wasn't great for him. Don't get me wrong, the Oilers have ruined their fair share of prospects (I'm with you on that), but Schremp was going to be a bust no matter where he landed. He was all hype and padded power-play stats:
http://www.coppernblue.com/2009/8/29/1007051/rob-schremp-explains-why-he-isnt
edit: God, why can't the Leafs hurry up and give Steve Ott 7 years at $6M per.
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On July 09 2014 21:42 L1ghtning wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 09:11 QuanticHawk wrote:On July 05 2014 19:56 StarStruck wrote:On July 05 2014 14:42 QuanticHawk wrote:On July 05 2014 10:20 StarStruck wrote:
I think you would have to watch him actually play that last season to really judge him man. Honestly he was one of our best players that season. He actually brings a lot to the table. He's not supposed to rack up the points. Darcy was a liability. Leo on the other hand wasn't in that season with the Leafs. Yes 3mil is a steep price but he brings the intangibles much like Carl Gunnarsson which a lot of people don't really understand. he's a 4th liner making $3m on a team that isn't in a great cap situation to begin with. He's good at what he does, but what he does is not worth $3m. I highly doubt you've seen enough of him to be saying what he does and doesn't bring to the team. Then again I've only seen him play one season for us and if he can do what he did in that same season I'm telling you the guy brings it and finishes every hit. He gets under guys skin without even flapping his gums unlike Darcy Tucker. The guy knows his role and he's very good at it and getting more guys to take penalties rather than himself taking a dumb one. I'd agree with the other guy in saying 2 to 2.5mil is more than fair and the fact of the matter is he wanted to come back to the Leafs. Also every little cocksucker is overpaid in the League so this is the norm and fuck Clarkson I never agreed with that deal to begin with. He's been a liability ever since he came. Leo on the other hand hasn't. At the end of the day, if you have beef with the Leo deal it should go back to the fact that the guy actually wanted to not only return to the NHL but return to Toronto and Nonis didn't abuse that fact when it came to negotiations. Why the heck wouldn't be take that multi year deal at 3 mil? He had no reason to refuse such an offer. Nonis could have got a better deal. $2m is still the upper end of what a 4th liner with one year of nhl experience should be making. $3m+ is for established third liners who are good for 40ish pts a year or more (mason raymond) or highly touted prospects who have proven something but havent quite done enough to earn more yet (kadri). hitting and pking are not worth $3m per for four years. and his shit stirring ability is totally overstated by leafs fans. judging by the things ive read thus far, it would seem that people forgot Komarov's +6 was dwarfed by Kadri's +30 that year. kadri led the team again this year with 19. of course i wouldnt blame komarov because anyone in his shoes would sign a cotnract when they're blatantly getting overpaid. All I am saying is that it is a stupid deal for nonis. He's a good fourth liner getting paid like a third. The only way it becomes an ok deal is if Komarov suddenly turns into a 40point or 20-20 player. the problem with the leafs (their forwards at least) isnt that they get bullied. it is because their system means skill guys like kessel, jvr, lupul, kadri do not have the puck on their stick as much as they should. the fix isnt to get better defensive forwards. it is to sign cheaper skill guys like raymond and kulemin, and let them play to their strengths. the more the forwards have possession, the less the leafs mediocre d is exposed, the less shots they face. it's not a coincidence that, for several years now, almost all of the top teams have also been very good possession teams. You guys really need to stop equaling corsi% with possession, because it's not the same thing. It's the +/- stat for shots. All it tells you is that you shoot more than you get shot at. Toronto had the worst "Corsi Against" in the league. Their "Corsi For" was not good, but it was ok, which when put in the context of their poor Corsi Against is actually quite good. Clearly they have the capacity to create shot opportunities. Their major problem seems to be that they grant an enormous amount of shot opportunities to their opponents. The most logical conclusion you can make out of that is that they have major issues with defensive positioning. New Jersey and Los Angeles have the best Corsi Against in the league, and those are defensive teams that stays at home and doesn't give their opponents much room to create quality chances. This is why they have a good Corsi Against, because they're good at forcing their opponents to hold the puck and pass it around, rather than shoot. This is how SJ was behaving against LA. Toronto seems to be the opposite of LA and NJ. So what they need to work on is their defensive positioning and discipline. Maybe their forwards needs to be more defensively responsible, or maybe their D is just crap defensively, you cannot tell what the exact problem is just by looking at the stats, but there's no doubt that Toronto's issue is their defense.
people who follow these stats know it isnt striaght up possession. but, as stated, it is very closely correlated, and stands in as a proxy. that's why it is constantly used as a possession stat.
also, i'm not sure where you're getting your stats. toronto's cf was 26th in the league. that's bad. their numbers are the way they are because, as you stated, the defense sucks, and that is exacerbated by a system that relies on the rush and dump and chase. they create more work for themselves by giving away possession due to their crappy system.
la also has one of the best cf in the league, so describing them simply as a great defensive team is wrong. theyre a great defensive team that benefits from an offense that controls the puck for long stretches. new jersey plays very similarly, except that they don't have anyone who ever actually shoots the puck
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Hawks are going to be looking to move someone soon. 10.5per/8yrs for each is something like 28% of the cap this year. That will obviously go down in a couple years, but christ those bickel and Crawford deals look extra bad now. Someone like Sharp, Hossa, or Seabrook might be moving soon. Just without Bickel, who is a middle of the road 3rd liner, they'd be just about ok. Much better than losing one of their really good players who are on good deals. On the plus side, Chicago has proven that they're really good at finding affordable talent in the bottom of their roster to give them the roster balance that makes them so successful. Basically, the opposite of Pittsburgh.
Lou Lam thinks a Schneider extension is coming real soon. Rumor is supposedly in the $6m/7yr range. That would be great for them to lock that up. And if some of their recent draft picks pan out the Devils might be really good again soon.
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Shouldn't have signed miller and try to get Cory back 
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EPT
