EPT'14-'15 NHL SEASON - Can Carlyle Win? CORSI CAN'T! - Page 20
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Jer99
Canada8158 Posts
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TT1
Canada10011 Posts
"no conversation just grunts like HUE HUE HUE" | ||
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Funnytoss
Taiwan1471 Posts
On July 11 2014 06:29 Sub40APM wrote: Fresh off paying Quincey more money than he earned last year because he is in a deep panic over no other FA d-man wanting to sign in Detroit, Ken Holland triples down on idiocy and signs Dan Cleary for another year, 1.5 million guranteed and another million in bonuses. Fuck it, I'm jumping on the Sub40APM "hate Holland" bandwagon. Even if it's a 2-way deal where he gets buried in Grand Rapids, he's still taking up roster space and counting towards the salary cap. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16837 Posts
$1.5M - $0.375M - $0.550M = $0.575M against the cap. for Cleary to attain any of the bonuses in the contract i highly suspect he has to play in the NHL.... so $0.575M is the cap hit if they don't like what they are seeing. Furthermore, if he plays well and remains in the NHL and hits the bonuses in the contract... bonus money can allow the Red Wings to go over the cap and activate the "bonus cushion" of 7.5% but, hey man .. its much simpler if you just keep on hatin'..  George Orwell's 2 minute hate is alive and well... pretty amazing prediction if you ask me. the NHL will be closely observing a really cool AHL experiment. 3-on-3 hockey after 4-on-4 overtime is still tied. http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/2014/07/10/ahl_extended_overtime_with_3on3_portion_fighting_change_on_way.html i'm really looking forward to some 3-on-3 hockey next year. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
Without signing DeKayser (their 2-3rd best d man) or Tatar (lets say a top 9 forward) they are already only 8 million away from the cap. And thats with Alferdson, Samuelson and Bertuzi off the books. They better prey that either Smith magically becomes good or that some GM is dumb enough to take Quincey + someone like Franzen off the Wings hands AND give them back an NHL d man. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16837 Posts
On July 11 2014 12:32 Sub40APM wrote: Its not a two way deal. source indicating there is a no-move clause in the deal? they can just waive him and send him down at the same salary... and take the cap hit of $0.575M and like i said.. if he plays well and hits the bonus it can be used to allow the Wings to go over the cap. "Babcock pushed hard for Cleary's return, leading to a one-year deal at $1.75 million. Along with that came with a verbal agreement the Wings would take care of Cleary this summer." http://www.freep.com/article/20140710/SPORTS05/307100158/daniel-cleary-red-wings Holland has to honour these handshake deals or lose credibility. i'm not saying any of this makes Holland a genius.... but the hate is just LOL. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
How much credibility does he have? Their gamble is clearly a Samuelson type situation where Cleary goes on the LTIR sometime in November or December from breaking his knees when he trips himself and bring up another young guy and hope they get another Nyquist type point explosion to carry them. Signing last year when the Flyers were so kind to take him of the Wings hands was already retarded -- 77 power play minutes, 0 points, -11, worst forward on the team by far -- but now? Just tell him to fucking retire, hire him as a consultant and pay him 5 million or whatever, its not like Illich cares where his money goes. Its literally the one bright spot in the Red Wings development that they have a glut of kids who can play the same minutes and same roles that Cleary is going to try and fail at playing. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32080 Posts
On July 11 2014 06:29 Sub40APM wrote: Fresh off paying Quincey more money than he earned last year because he is in a deep panic over no other FA d-man wanting to sign in Detroit, Ken Holland triples down on idiocy and signs Dan Cleary for another year, 1.5 million guranteed and another million in bonuses. lol that's fucking hilarious cleary was awful last year i don't understand why holland refuses to give that spot to a young guy. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16837 Posts
"Babcock pushed hard for Cleary's return, leading to a one-year deal at $1.75 million. Along with that came with a verbal agreement the Wings would take care of Cleary this summer." http://www.freep.com/article/20140710/SPORTS05/307100158/daniel-cleary-red-wings that is why. but, its prolly easier to just call Holland an idiot to the other point of fact, i take it that its now been conceded Cleary can be waived and sent down for a cap hit of $0.575 M | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On July 11 2014 12:58 JimmyJRaynor wrote: its 2 posts up "Babcock pushed hard for Cleary's return, leading to a one-year deal at $1.75 million. Along with that came with a verbal agreement the Wings would take care of Cleary this summer." http://www.freep.com/article/20140710/SPORTS05/307100158/daniel-cleary-red-wings that is why. so i take it that its now been conceded Cleary can be waived and sent down for a cap hit of $0.575 M Like he was waived last year right? And no, Holland is an idiot. IF he wanted to 'take care' of Cleary then let him retire and hire him as a consultant for more money. This isnt Florida, there is cash to be had. But not cap space or roster spots. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16837 Posts
On July 11 2014 13:02 Sub40APM wrote: Like he was waived last year right? And no, Holland is an idiot. IF he wanted to 'take care' of Cleary then let him retire and hire him as a consultant for more money. This isnt Florida, there is cash to be had. But not cap space or roster spots. for a total cap hit of $0.575M LOL this whole thing will turn out to be a nothing move about nothing. but this is great, we do have you claiming Holland is an idiot where is that guy that said the New York Rangers are a terrible hockey team ... after they played a bad game.. that was their 5th game in 7 days? | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On July 11 2014 12:56 QuanticHawk wrote: lol that's fucking hilarious cleary was awful last year i don't understand why holland refuses to give that spot to a young guy. he suffered a stroke sometime in 2010 and no one noticed. Hence to replace Rafalski and the impendingly retiring Lidstrom their go to move was Quincey for a first pick, then some 'toughness' in signing Tootoo and then a crippled and useless Samuelson because SWEDEN! I understand why it was hard to bring in Sutter and Parise here, but fucking Dan Boyle? Thats how far the team has fallen in terms of reputation. Not only that by if you are a young player why would you pull a jarnkrok, make threatening noises about 'moving back to Sweden' so you get traded to a franchise that actually likes young players and you get actual NHL ice time ahead of dan motherfucking cleary. Unless Holland pulls some miracle trade where they get Myers from Buffalo for Franzen the Wings are in the Calgary mode right now. As Datsyuk/Zetterberg get older, younger talent will be shipped off to buy bandaids to keep that 8th seed playoff historical run of awesomeness alive until the dam finally breaks and Brian Burke is brought in to touch the team 'truculence' and hair care. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16837 Posts
On July 11 2014 13:02 Sub40APM wrote: Like he was waived last year right? And no, Holland is an idiot. IF he wanted to 'take care' of Cleary then let him retire and hire him as a consultant for more money. that would be circumventing the salary cap and Holland would have 50 lawyers working for every NHL team all over him for doing that. so that little scheme is not possible. when i read suggestions like this and compare them to what Ken Holland decided to do i'm wondering who the idiot is. Ken Holland's method of dealing with his promise is looking better all the time. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32080 Posts
On July 11 2014 13:08 Sub40APM wrote: he suffered a stroke sometime in 2010 and no one noticed. Hence to replace Rafalski and the impendingly retiring Lidstrom their go to move was Quincey for a first pick, then some 'toughness' in signing Tootoo and then a crippled and useless Samuelson because SWEDEN! I understand why it was hard to bring in Sutter and Parise here, but fucking Dan Boyle? Thats how far the team has fallen in terms of reputation. Not only that by if you are a young player why would you pull a jarnkrok, make threatening noises about 'moving back to Sweden' so you get traded to a franchise that actually likes young players and you get actual NHL ice time ahead of dan motherfucking cleary. Unless Holland pulls some miracle trade where they get Myers from Buffalo for Franzen the Wings are in the Calgary mode right now. As Datsyuk/Zetterberg get older, younger talent will be shipped off to buy bandaids to keep that 8th seed playoff historical run of awesomeness alive until the dam finally breaks and Brian Burke is brought in to touch the team 'truculence' and hair care. exactly. the longer they keep crappy old farts like cleary around, the longer it takes for young guys to make an impact and have the team rebuild. might as well save the cap space and roster spot for a young guy who might have a future with the team beyond this year | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16837 Posts
this is not baseball; there is no "40 man roster" equivalent. there is no sniffing around looking for guys who are "off roster" so you can scoop them up for $50K. so roster spots are not at a premium the way they are in baseball. the Red Wings have to declare their 23 man roster before opening day..... not on July 12th. and of course none of this deals with Holland's handshake deal with Cleary. | ||
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Funnytoss
Taiwan1471 Posts
On July 11 2014 13:36 JimmyJRaynor wrote: this 'roster spot" crap makes me laugh. this is not baseball; there is no "40 man roster" equivalent. there is no sniffing around looking for guys who are "off roster" so you can scoop them up for $50K. so roster spots are not at a premium the way they are in baseball. the Red Wings have to declare their 23 man roster before opening day..... not on July 12th. and of course none of this deals with Holland's handshake deal with Cleary. I think we're arguing that Holland shouldn't have made any sort of "handshake deal" in the first place - him being on the roster delayed Nyquist and Tatar's development, and it took massive injuries to the Wings before they even got a chance and finally proved that the older vets (Sammy, Bertuzzi, Cleary) really didn't belong. In addition, you'd think getting Alfredsson (leading scorer on the Wings last year) to resign would be a bigger priority than Dan Cleary (8 points in 52 games). It's not like there are any other teams that want Cleary, so why the rush to tie up space? | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32080 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16837 Posts
On July 11 2014 13:43 Funnytoss wrote: I think we're arguing that Holland shouldn't have made any sort of "handshake deal" in the first place its easy to say that now. harder to say that at the time of the handshake deal... at the time of the handshake deal "Babcock pushed hard for Cleary's return, leading to a one-year deal at $1.75 million. " with Cleary's chronic knee problem they can also LTIR him and have no cap space eaten up by his contract. THE KEY IS... they LTIR him on the day they have their 23 man roster declared at the highest salary combination possible. going through the past 30 posts or so its clear the critics of Holland do not know the waiver process nor the rules regarding how the salary cap is impacted by a player in the minors or an injured player. if you guys want to call Holland an idiot without understanding the full context of his decision... hey go for it... and you can also claim Babcock is an idiot.... and Jim Devellano is an idiot for not firing Holland have fun. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
Boyle also had a deal for more money from NYI. He went to NYR because he wanted to play there, not because Holland lacks credibility. Niskanen signed in Washington for $5.75 million for 7 years. Is that really want you want? Ehrhoff was only interested in joining a few teams, so presumably he wanted to join one that's a Stanley Cup contender right now. There aren't exactly a lot of other options out there. Obviously Quincey is getting overpaid, but Detroit needs some players, and it's only for two years. | ||
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Orcasgt24
Canada3238 Posts
I have no idea how Chicago is going to fit there team under next year when two players make up over 25% of the salary cap. | ||
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