On February 01 2015 02:29 Jaaaaasper wrote:
#justsayin'
#justsayin'
Yeah the NFL's incompetence is one reason why regardless of what they 'determine' it won't change anyone's mind.
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GreenHorizons
United States23830 Posts
On February 01 2015 02:29 Jaaaaasper wrote: #justsayin' Yeah the NFL's incompetence is one reason why regardless of what they 'determine' it won't change anyone's mind. | ||
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giftdgecko
United States2126 Posts
Pretty sure that the patriots lack of fumbling has more to do with the fact they bench anyone besides TB who fumbles the ball. Just ask Ridley, once that pigskin hits the ground your ass hits the bench. They also put a ton of practice time into it during the preseason, but that doesn't really fit into an supped up infographic. | ||
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Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
On February 01 2015 04:13 giftdgecko wrote: Pretty sure that the patriots lack of fumbling has more to do with the fact they bench anyone besides TB who fumbles the ball. Just ask Ridley, once that pigskin hits the ground your ass hits the bench. They also put a ton of practice time into it during the preseason, but that doesn't really fit into an supped up infographic. Plus there is the fact that the people flipping out about #patriotsaregoodatfootballgate are ignoring special teams where the patriots do fumble at a higher rate. But I can't be bothered to go find that link any more. This entire "scandal" is bullshit that wouldn't have even made the espn website if it was any other team. | ||
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Firkraag8
Sweden1006 Posts
On February 01 2015 03:22 GreenHorizons wrote: Yeah the NFL's incompetence is one reason why regardless of what they 'determine' it won't change anyone's mind. And the fact that people are scared to admit that the Patriots could play as well as they have over a decade now is because of them actually being that good, that's crazy talk right? | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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AgentW
United States7725 Posts
On February 01 2015 04:15 Jaaaaasper wrote: Show nested quote + On February 01 2015 04:13 giftdgecko wrote: Pretty sure that the patriots lack of fumbling has more to do with the fact they bench anyone besides TB who fumbles the ball. Just ask Ridley, once that pigskin hits the ground your ass hits the bench. They also put a ton of practice time into it during the preseason, but that doesn't really fit into an supped up infographic. Plus there is the fact that the people flipping out about #patriotsaregoodatfootballgate are ignoring special teams where the patriots do fumble at a higher rate. But I can't be bothered to go find that link any more. This entire "scandal" is bullshit that wouldn't have even made the espn website if it was any other team. I'm about as anti-Pats as they come, but I agree with those who are saying that treating the fumbling thing as some sort of proof using a fancy infographic is nonsense. I highly recommend listening to the BS Report with Aaron Schatz (found here) for statistical discussion on the subject. Basically, outliers should be treated simply as outliers and not as proof of anything happening. Furthermore, the data was plucked selectively, which helps nobody. Ignoring the stats and going purely anecdotal, doesn't Belichick have a notoriously short leash for players who fumble often, to the point of benching Ridley (can't think of another example off the top of my head) for entire games for fumbling on the first possession? Wouldn't that just cause the Pats as a team to have a lower propensity to fumble because they're both intolerant of it and good in general? | ||
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giftdgecko
United States2126 Posts
On February 01 2015 04:33 AgentW wrote: Show nested quote + On February 01 2015 04:15 Jaaaaasper wrote: On February 01 2015 04:13 giftdgecko wrote: Pretty sure that the patriots lack of fumbling has more to do with the fact they bench anyone besides TB who fumbles the ball. Just ask Ridley, once that pigskin hits the ground your ass hits the bench. They also put a ton of practice time into it during the preseason, but that doesn't really fit into an supped up infographic. Plus there is the fact that the people flipping out about #patriotsaregoodatfootballgate are ignoring special teams where the patriots do fumble at a higher rate. But I can't be bothered to go find that link any more. This entire "scandal" is bullshit that wouldn't have even made the espn website if it was any other team. I'm about as anti-Pats as they come, but I agree with those who are saying that treating the fumbling thing as some sort of proof using a fancy infographic is nonsense. I highly recommend listening to the BS Report with Aaron Schatz (found here) for statistical discussion on the subject. Basically, outliers should be treated simply as outliers and not as proof of anything happening. Furthermore, the data was plucked selectively, which helps nobody. Ignoring the stats and going purely anecdotal, doesn't Belichick have a notoriously short leash for players who fumble often, to the point of benching Ridley (can't think of another example off the top of my head) for entire games for fumbling on the first possession? Wouldn't that just cause the Pats as a team to have a lower propensity to fumble because they're both intolerant of it and good in general? Yep, Tate I believe also had a problem at one point (mostly in practices) and I think it's one of the many reasons we pushed him out despite being a solid return guy. What's the verdict on how healthy the LOB is? I realize nobody is 100% this time of year but I'd like to see them at 80% (and present in Shermans case) just for a good game. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On February 01 2015 04:15 Jaaaaasper wrote: Show nested quote + On February 01 2015 04:13 giftdgecko wrote: Pretty sure that the patriots lack of fumbling has more to do with the fact they bench anyone besides TB who fumbles the ball. Just ask Ridley, once that pigskin hits the ground your ass hits the bench. They also put a ton of practice time into it during the preseason, but that doesn't really fit into an supped up infographic. Plus there is the fact that the people flipping out about #patriotsaregoodatfootballgate are ignoring special teams where the patriots do fumble at a higher rate. But I can't be bothered to go find that link any more. This entire "scandal" is bullshit that wouldn't have even made the espn website if it was any other team. Im confused here...if they fumble more on special teams that supports the deflation theory. Its basically a debunking of the "Bellichek hates fumbles" storyline. IMO its people making stupid excuses that keep the story going. If people didn't keep talking about how the Colts balls might have been somehow different (which, by the way, is admitting that the Pats cheated with ball pressure by intentionally circumventing the rules). Or attacking the straw man of how they beat the Colts by 5000 points (as if they suddenly decided to test a new deflation tactic in the AFC title game). The excuses are actually more infuriating than the actual act (which no one really cares much about). | ||
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Craze
United States561 Posts
On February 01 2015 04:38 giftdgecko wrote: What's the verdict on how healthy the LOB is? I realize nobody is 100% this time of year but I'd like to see them at 80% (and present in Shermans case) just for a good game. Thomas says he's 100%, but that guys an animal so he probably isn't close and is just preaching the positivity. Chancellor was limited but only to keep the knee fresh, it supposedly didn't slow him down. Sherman's hurting but will play, maybe some kind of trap to get TB to target his way? ![]() | ||
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AgentW
United States7725 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23830 Posts
On February 01 2015 04:23 Firkraag8 wrote: Show nested quote + On February 01 2015 03:22 GreenHorizons wrote: On February 01 2015 02:29 Jaaaaasper wrote: #justsayin' Yeah the NFL's incompetence is one reason why regardless of what they 'determine' it won't change anyone's mind. And the fact that people are scared to admit that the Patriots could play as well as they have over a decade now is because of them actually being that good, that's crazy talk right? I think this actually supports the inflation theory. If they usually practice and play with under-inflated balls the over/properly inflated kicking balls would get fumbled more often. I already said I don't think that the Patriots are dumb enough to have actually "Cheated" (and they are probably the best organization in the NFL [although the Seahawks may take that torch soon]) but I do think they did what they could to make the balls as "Brady friendly" as possible within the rules. People seem to be ignoring the scenario where the balls were intentionally manipulated to end up under the prescribed PSI range but got there without outright breaking any rules. The scenario of using hot air in the balls makes the most sense, especially in the context of Brady's response when asked if he was a cheater. People suggesting the balls just happen to end up in a condition favored by Brady (that happens also to be against the rules [sort of])are just living in an Egyptian River... | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On February 01 2015 05:56 AgentW wrote: Just heard that Wilson is vying to be the first black QB to win two Super Bowls, which reminded me of the ridiculous narrative from about a decade ago questioning if black guys could QB a team. Looking back on that, it was pretty messed up that that was even a talking point. even when they are successful the narrative is slanted to the 'black qb = running qb' angle. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/160417/report-blandino-says-solders-touchdown-shouldnt-have-counted | ||
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giftdgecko
United States2126 Posts
On February 01 2015 06:34 oneofthem wrote: looks like another patriots scandal brewing http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/160417/report-blandino-says-solders-touchdown-shouldnt-have-counted Not a scandal just poor officiating, but nice try ESPN | ||
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Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
On February 01 2015 07:04 giftdgecko wrote: Show nested quote + On February 01 2015 06:34 oneofthem wrote: looks like another patriots scandal brewing http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/160417/report-blandino-says-solders-touchdown-shouldnt-have-counted Not a scandal just poor officiating, but nice try ESPN No NO the patriots are litterally all hitler. Grr logic grr patriots dae cheatriots. I'll be collecting my first espn check for those sentences fyi. | ||
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TheMusiC
United States1054 Posts
On February 01 2015 04:13 giftdgecko wrote: Pretty sure that the patriots lack of fumbling has more to do with the fact they bench anyone besides TB who fumbles the ball. Just ask Ridley, once that pigskin hits the ground your ass hits the bench. They also put a ton of practice time into it during the preseason, but that doesn't really fit into an supped up infographic. The whole "Pats fumbled less than anyone else in the past 7 years, something shady must be going on" thing was refuted several times over on fivethirtyeight. http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/your-guide-to-deflate-gateballghazi-related-statistical-analyses/ Interesting to see both sides of the statistics-bending though. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23830 Posts
On February 01 2015 06:20 oneofthem wrote: Show nested quote + On February 01 2015 05:56 AgentW wrote: Just heard that Wilson is vying to be the first black QB to win two Super Bowls, which reminded me of the ridiculous narrative from about a decade ago questioning if black guys could QB a team. Looking back on that, it was pretty messed up that that was even a talking point. even when they are successful the narrative is slanted to the 'black qb = running qb' angle. I think the part of the whole "black" thing that gets lost in translation is that black also refers to a group of collective common experiences. I think that's more of what people were talking about whether they knew it or not. When you are dealing with a black athlete chances are they grew up poor and developed some unproductive social habits. Not terribly uncommon among poor white athletes, the difference is/was that there would be coaches that could relate on a personal level and take some asshole country bumpkin and turn him into a professional athlete. The post got a lot more in-depth than I had planned on it's outset lol... + Show Spoiler + Black athletes saw success at positions other than QB for a long list of reasons. Many of which were related to be being poor/black. When you think about what it takes to be an excellent QB (for instance 1-on-1 time with a knowledgeable coach) it's kind of obvious why most QB's come from well off families (who are simply statistically more likely not to be black). So one can put together why it would be harder for a poor athlete to become a QB vs something like a WR So why have there been some successful poor white QB's? (I don't actually know if there have, but I assume there has?) This goes back to coaches being able to personally relate with their players enough to turn them from cocky college players into professional athletes. Basically it takes a lot more to mold said college youth into a QB than it does a WR or something. Coaches just didn't/don't have the skills/common experiences/patience to do that with young black men. So what you would of seen had you been looking for it was first all black teams that inherently had black players.Then some of those black athletes that were either significantly more athletic than their white counterparts or roughly equal and happened to have amiable personalities for being a football player started being put on "white" teams and having success. From there they started to become position coaches and mentors and were able to develop the previously mentioned personal relationships with players that allowed them to take less amiable personalities and mold them into professionals(or close enough at least). At the same time black and white people had more common shared experiences and had more inter-community interactions, so non-black coaches started to have the life experiences that facilitated the relationships necessary to developing professionals out of poor young black athletes as well as whites. Those two developments happening simultaneously helped lead to reasonably successful black QB's. This leads us to Wilson. Wilson is somewhat of an anomaly. Being the son of a Lawyer and Legal nurse, he doesn't fit the "typical black athlete" mold. When comparing his success to someone like Vick, RG3, etc... the theme of black QB=Running QB is likely to come up. However, the difference off the field can also be seen on the field. While there is an undeniable pattern of black QB's tending to be running QB's I suggest it's not exactly for the reasons most people assume. The basic implication behind the debate/discussion was that black athletes were too dumb to be QB's. So that if they became QB's it was a novelty of athleticism mixed with unconventional play (that just wouldn't stand up in the NFL). My suggestion is that it wasn't the QB's being to dumb that led them to play the way they did. Instead, their play was a symptom of a confluence of other influencing factors. The ones I have already outlined are not limited to the college-professional transition but take place at the other transition points in football (flag to contact, everyone makes the team to cuts, etc...) So the idea that black people couldn't QB in the NFL was essentially a self-fulfilling prophecy. Black people couldn't have significant success in the NFL at QB because none of their coaches were willing to put in the work/faith to make them one like they were with white athletes. Bringing us back to Wilson, he is a part of a perfect storm. Having an atypical background for a black athlete gave him his first boost, allowing him the financial support that is so helpful to developing a quality athlete also being raised/gifted with a conducive disposition and personality to being a professional. Next that same background gave him a unique social/educational skill set uncommon in black athletes (for a variety of reasons). Next his A-typical background gave him access to a high school with an extensive sports program. And so on, then Wilson gets a huge break, A coach in the NFL that really believed in his abilities(It's likely Carroll, having recruited lots of black athletes himself, was familiar with the nuance of Wilson's story). Where many saw Wilson's running ability and black skin and instantly turned him into a short Michael Vick (or whoever was their stereo-type for black QB) in their head, Carroll saw more. Carroll saw someone he could turn into a Superbowl winning QB. Not just based on Wilson's ability to run with the ball and make some good passes his personality and off field dedication be damned, but because he saw his passion and overall talent absent a "black people can't play QB filter". I speculate that he saw the full potential of the athlete without making a bunch of assumptions based on statistically supported prejudices. As important he had the clarity to see Wilson's potential regardless of his skin color and the confidence that he could be better than the white QB they originally planned to go with. The contrast between someone like RGIII and Wilson illustrates how important a confident supportive clear eyed coach is to the confidence and performance of a QB. I wouldn't dismiss the role plain bad performance is to blame for Redskin woes but I think the impact of a culture of racial insensitivity that is so encapsulated in their very name and was thinly veiled by people like Shanahan most definitely influenced RGIII in the opposite (negative) direction as outlined for Wilson. Wilson potentially being the first black QB with 2 SB wins in such a context is less surprising and easier to see how it came to be. As Wilson's background and football rearing becomes less atypical, expect to see more successful black QB's. All that being said, people are dumb if they think the color of ones skin would preclude them from playing a certain position in football. | ||
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AgentW
United States7725 Posts
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giftdgecko
United States2126 Posts
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Intact
Sweden634 Posts
interesting off-season if they end up pouring the rumored amounts of money into Wilson and Lynch. Can they afford Wagner? | ||
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