EPTNetizens going crazy...
2014 Winter Olympics Sochi - Page 70
| Forum Index > Sports |
|
Koenig99
Canada904 Posts
Netizens going crazy... | ||
|
dgsdm
198 Posts
Corruption and rigging aside, Yuna was amazing, I'm proud of her and I hope she knows that she's accomplished a lot and is a true winner in many people's eyes. | ||
|
BigAsia
Canada451 Posts
On February 21 2014 12:55 dgsdm wrote: I posted it a few pages back, but the article's in Korean. I'm not really familiar with Olympic rules and procedures but do they ever backtrack and take away gold or give if there was a mistake in scoring? Corruption and rigging aside, Yuna was amazing, I'm proud of her and I hope she knows that she's accomplished a lot and is a true winner in many people's eyes. They did in salt lake city 2002 when the Russian pair came ahead of the Canadian. They gave both the gold medal in the end http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Olympic_Winter_Games_figure_skating_scandal | ||
|
mahrgell
Germany3943 Posts
| ||
|
Scarecrow
Korea (South)9172 Posts
Hardly convincing to hear him backtrack later after he'd said what he really thought on air. Just sounds like PR to say he now agrees '100%'. Here's the long program scorecard for those interested. https://twitter.com/HeartofThe9/status/436578421296992258/photo/1 After rewatching the performances I have nfi how Yuna got less for choreography. Also confused how the Russian's second highest scoring jump was the one she blew the landing on. | ||
|
Eventine
United States307 Posts
On February 21 2014 12:53 GTR wrote: Only found a Korean source, don't know if there's an English one out there. http://news.donga.com/Main/3/all/20140220/61043456/1 S'fine, you can see the picture which is the main thing. I'm still quite skeptical, only a korean source, no one else in the world has noted anything about this. On February 21 2014 13:04 mahrgell wrote: how many of the ppl complaining about the zero (on a single element) know, that it is a zero on a scale from -3 to +3 ? So 0 is is the average... not the lower end... And a +3 is not given lightly, even to the topskaters... It is strange given the other judges gave 2s and 1s. I don't know, beyond what i have knowledge of. | ||
|
mahrgell
Germany3943 Posts
On February 21 2014 13:05 Eventine wrote: It is strange given the other judges gave 2s and 1s. I don't know, beyond what i have knowledge of. Him giving a 1 makes close to no difference on her final score...(<0.5) Considering they had about 5 points difference, this discussion is quite pointless. Also their judgement is subjective. Even with a normal distribution on opinions it is completely normal that it may happen that on a single element one judge feels slightly different then the others... In return he rated other jumps of her higher then other judges... and no matter at whose score sheet you look... there will always be differences between the judges, in all points But in the end the difference between the two was quite simple... Yuna had one jump less, and that cost her, dearly... With the program she chose, under the given rating system (which she knew before as well) and considering adelinas program, she simply needed something really drastic to happen to win... Yes, the rating system may not exactly represent the feelings of those watching... But the athletes knew the system, and how the medals are decided... And adelina squeezed one more jump in, and that were the points that made the difference in the end... Getting 5 points from anything but the technical base score is almost impossible at the top level, if they all land their jumps. | ||
|
EntertainMe
864 Posts
On February 21 2014 13:23 mahrgell wrote: Him giving a 1 makes close to no difference on her final score...(<0.5) Considering they had about 5 points difference, this discussion is quite pointless. Also their judgement is subjective. Even with a normal distribution on opinions it is completely normal that it may happen that on a single element one judge feels slightly different then the others... In return he rated other jumps of her higher then other judges... and no matter at whose score sheet you look... there will always be differences between the judges, in all points But in the end the difference between the two was quite simple... Yuna had one jump less, and that cost her, dearly... With the program she chose, under the given rating system (which she knew before as well) and considering adelinas program, she simply needed something really drastic to happen to win... Yes, the rating system may not exactly represent the feelings of those watching... But the athletes knew the system, and how the medals are decided... And adelina squeezed one more jump in, and that were the points that made the difference in the end... Getting 5 points from anything but the technical base score is almost impossible at the top level, if they all land their jumps. First, I want to congratulate Adelina Sotnikova for having a stunning performance and winning the gold. I am not questioning who deserve the Gold medal, I truly believe all top 3 were extraordinary and all deserve Gold. My question is whether the judges fairly assessed and judged the athletes regardless of how the result played out. Many justifies the point difference by Yuna having one less jump, even so, how do they justify Carolina Kostner being placed lower? And secondly, you've stated that they all landed their jumps. So as long as you land, you never get penalize for the stumbling? I don't understand how that is so. Especially if Carolina and Adelina had identical difficulty of jumps, shouldn't the person with less mistake win? I am just curious and will appreciate your clarification. | ||
|
Orcasgt24
Canada3238 Posts
Anything that requires a human to score it is always going to have controversy because these athletes are all so good towards the top that they will barely make any kind of noticeable error, if any error at all. And the judges have to choose which error free program was better. How can you possibly distinguish that unbiasedly? | ||
|
scissorhands
United States68 Posts
 )))))I know this has been listed before, but here be the scintillating cast of judges and technicians (taken from the NYTimes): ■ Judge No. 1: Birgit Föll of Germany. ■ Judge No. 2: Yuri Balkov of Ukraine. At the 1998 Winter Games in Nagano, Japan, Balkov was taped by the Canadian judge Jean Senft explaining what order the competitors would finish in the ice-dancing competition before it took place. He was suspended for one year. He returned to judging and is certified by the international federation. ■ Judge No. 3: Franco Benini of Italy. ■ Judge No. 4: Zanna Kulik of Estonia. ■ Judge No. 5: Nobuhiko Yoshioka of Japan. ■ Judge No. 6: Alla Shekhovtsova of Russia. She is the wife of Valentin Piseev, general director of the Russian figure skating federation. ■ Judge No. 7: Hélène Cucuphat of France. ■ Judge No. 8: Karen Howard of Canada. ■ Judge No. 9: Adriana Domanska of Slovakia. ■ Technical controller: Alexander Lakernik of Russia, who has been the vice president of the Russian figure skating federation. He was voted chairman of the international federation’s technical committee in the wake of the 2002 Salt Lake scandal. ■ Technical specialist: Vanessa Gusmeroli, a retired French figure skater and a world championships bronze medalist. ■ Assistant technical specialist: Olga Baranova of Finland. ■ Referee: Diana Barbacci Levy of Switzerland. ■ Data operator: David Santee of the United States. ■ Replay operator: Alexander Kuznetsov of Russia. In the aftermath of the judging scandal at the 2002 Salt Lake Games, Russian officials, including Kuznetsov, expressed frustration that the Canadians pushed to have the pair of Jamie Sale and David Pelletier elevated to a gold medal. “The Russians would never have brought up this issue,” said Kuznetsov, identified as a “figure skating coach.” “The Russians would have proven their right to victory at the next competition.” | ||
|
semantics
10040 Posts
On February 21 2014 12:26 Scarecrow wrote: Link me one non-Russian skating insider who doesn't think the result was at least dubious. The score was just ludicrously high relative to Yuna's record and the free-skate performances of Asada/Yuna/Kostner. Consider also she made a very visible mistake on one of her jumps and is just out of the juniors. She wasn't even the best Russian skater coming into this and a judge somehow gave Yuna a 0 for one of her jumps in the short program. It was clearly rigged and I don't even like Yuna that much, more annoyed with how low they scored Asada in the long program relative to the inflated Russians. Judging in events have known to favor the host county for a long time. It's a flaw in the judging system in many sports, points are taken away then multiplied by a favor of difficulty in a ton of those Olympic sports. Rather than a points awarded system. On February 21 2014 12:07 Eventine wrote: Pretty much, US goes by totals, the world goes by gold. Think of it like the metric system Think about it, US is large country, if you assume similar levels of interest and training in sports and culture favors some sports over others you'll see more medals in more popular sports less is unpopular. The US is more likely to medal just by having more people. Plus it's a relic of the cold war, who ate up most Olympic medals US and USSR. How do small counties compete they list highest achievement, most golds. | ||
|
Judicator
United States7270 Posts
Here's your link Scarecrow. When people actually think they can comprehend figure skating scoring, then talk. Otherwise you are just spewing pretty useless stuff like some of the talking heads in the media. Edit: Justification is pointless if the people listening to it can't actually comprehend it. As trashy as Reddit can get at times, there was a really good bestof post in the Olympics subreddit which a former competitive figure skater basically stuffed all the whiners and moaners during the team competition. In other words, people aren't looking for justification, they're looking for satisfaction that they won't get because what they're asking for is dependent on a subjective measure. Edit2: The best whining I have seen so far is the: I am going to complain about the subjective nature of the sport while using my own subjective values, because I must be more pure than the judges and more knowledgeable about a sport I don't give a shit about unless it involves my nation's athlete(s) or its the Olympics. | ||
|
Veles
United States3280 Posts
The scores might have been inflated/deflated but Yuna's program has a significantly lower base technical score - there is no subjectivity there. Ultimately both had strong performances - Yuna's was cleaner and Sotnikova's was more technical. The two performances did not directly compete with each other and judging paradigm (the subjective opinion of the judges, and the established system of scoring) was the deciding factor. As was seen in men's figure skating, this Olympics the judging favors technical, risky, and potentially imperfect programs. Its the same issue as 2010. Maybe Yuna would have won with different judges, maybe the score would have been closer. However, both performances were impressive for different reasons, and the most common criticisms of the final outcome are blatantly ignorant. To me this really presents the korean netizens as overly aggressive and nationalistic. | ||
|
Bisu-Fan
Russian Federation3336 Posts
On February 21 2014 12:16 GwSC wrote: Yeah, I'm realizing this after checking several different countries' news sites  And apparently NBC only changed to total medals within the last couple Olympics. Maybe my eyes were playing tricks on me (or I was just looking at the wrong site), but at one point in the Olympics when America had more golds but less medals, the site was ranking using the G>S>B method... But I could have been so sleep deprived that I was seeing things or misinterpreting them | ||
|
Shinokuki
United States923 Posts
On February 21 2014 13:23 mahrgell wrote: Him giving a 1 makes close to no difference on her final score...(<0.5) Considering they had about 5 points difference, this discussion is quite pointless. Also their judgement is subjective. Even with a normal distribution on opinions it is completely normal that it may happen that on a single element one judge feels slightly different then the others... In return he rated other jumps of her higher then other judges... and no matter at whose score sheet you look... there will always be differences between the judges, in all points But in the end the difference between the two was quite simple... Yuna had one jump less, and that cost her, dearly... With the program she chose, under the given rating system (which she knew before as well) and considering adelinas program, she simply needed something really drastic to happen to win... Yes, the rating system may not exactly represent the feelings of those watching... But the athletes knew the system, and how the medals are decided... And adelina squeezed one more jump in, and that were the points that made the difference in the end... Getting 5 points from anything but the technical base score is almost impossible at the top level, if they all land their jumps. explain mao asada's case. 8 jumps and somehow she scores less than the russian girl who makes mistake? It's a joke. Why do people even deny home advantage. | ||
|
Micro_Jackson
Germany2002 Posts
On February 21 2014 15:38 Bisu-Fan wrote: Maybe my eyes were playing tricks on me (or I was just looking at the wrong site), but at one point in the Olympics when America had more golds but less medals, the site was ranking using the G>S>B method... But I could have been so sleep deprived that I was seeing things or misinterpreting them I somehow have a feeling the ´merica media is doing it in a way that ´merica gets the highest possible place. Like every other not international media. | ||
|
CherryNubCakes
United States972 Posts
On February 21 2014 16:24 Shinokuki wrote: explain mao asada's case. 8 jumps and somehow she scores less than the russian girl who makes mistake? It's a joke. Why do people even deny home advantage. Mao Asada's case is easy to explain. She was in an earlier group and thus had her marks held down. She wasn't given full credit, only 70%, for 2 triple jumps (and both calls were just plain wrong). And her Program Components were marked shamefully low relative to the Russians. Had she replicated this performance anywhere but Sochi, she could've broken 150. | ||
|
scissorhands
United States68 Posts
On February 21 2014 16:28 CherryNubCakes wrote: Mao Asada's case is easy to explain. She was in an earlier group and thus had her marks held down. She wasn't given full credit, only 70%, for 2 triple jumps (and both calls were just plain wrong). And her Program Components were marked shamefully low relative to the Russians. Had she replicated this performance anywhere but Sochi, she could've broken 150. <flagrantconjecture> I'm willing to bet if Mao had skated in the last group, her score would have been much higher. Remember, she was skating among lesser skaters, so the judges probably thought they were giving her high scores compared to the others. But in the last couple of groups where the best skaters could be compared next to one another, the judges were careful in giving them the higher scores since they knew the medals would be awarded to one of these. And of course, because of Mao's high scores, the judges have to take her scores into account when awarding the higher scores to the "best" skaters. Haha, this sounds ridiculous when I reread this, but I can't think for a moment that the judges can be impartial enough to score within an acceptable margin of error consistently among a vast group of skaters, even if they really were impartial and were trying hard. Of course, what the hell do I know. </flagrantconjecture> I do wonder whether requiring the judges to wear sound blocking headsets that only piped in the skater's music would help. At least it would take crowd noise out of the equation. | ||
|
Micro_Jackson
Germany2002 Posts
On February 21 2014 16:41 scissorhands wrote: <flagrantconjecture> I'm willing to bet if Mao had skated in the last group, her score would have been much higher. Remember, she was skating among lesser skaters, so the judges probably thought they were giving her high scores compared to the others. But in the last couple of groups where the best skaters could be compared next to one another, the judges were careful in giving them the higher scores since they knew the medals would be awarded to one of these. And of course, because of Mao's high scores, the judges have to take her scores into account when awarding the higher scores to the "best" skaters. Haha, this sounds ridiculous when I reread this, but I can't think for a moment that the judges can be impartial enough to score within an acceptable margin of error consistently among a vast group of skaters, even if they really were impartial and were trying hard. Of course, what the hell do I know. </flagrantconjecture> I do wonder whether requiring the judges to wear sound blocking headsets that only piped in the skater's music would help. At least it would take crowd noise out of the equation. I have no idea of ice skating but the judging system sounds stupid. | ||
|
PaleMan
Russian Federation1953 Posts
| ||
| ||
