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2013-2014 Champions League & Europa League Thread - Page 64

Forum Index > Sports
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Hagen0
Profile Joined June 2013
Germany765 Posts
November 27 2013 22:25 GMT
#1261
I think it was 1-7. ^^

This performance was indeed somewhat typical for Leverkusen agaisnt top teams.
Steveling
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Greece10806 Posts
November 27 2013 22:31 GMT
#1262
Since you guys are running down poor leverkusen I'll contribute saying that we, olympiacos, beat them 6-2 only 3 months after their CL final appearance against RM like 10 years ago or so, lol.
My dick has shrunk to the point where it looks like I have 3 balls.
Ferrose
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States11378 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-27 22:42:27
November 27 2013 22:35 GMT
#1263
On November 28 2013 07:09 TheDWorm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2013 07:03 Twoflowers wrote:
On November 28 2013 06:51 TheDWorm wrote:
On November 28 2013 06:35 sharkie wrote:
Manchester United play so so so much better with Kagawa than without.

How the heck can a manager be so blind?

Mabye they should have asked Klopp.

And in regards of the Bundesliga vs EPL discussion i personally think that the important factor in the last decades was the competition (in favor of EPL). In Germany we have the same situation for years - no matter who is the attacking team (Bremen, Leverkusen, Schalke, Dortmund, Gladbach,...) - Bayern has got such an extrem financial advantage that they easy can change situations with just some transfers while the contender needs to have extrem good scouting/signings to even stay at the same level.


As long as Bayern stays in tip top international shape at least we get the points necessar to secure our CL-spots and the money that goes with them. Bayern maybe the dominating force in the bundeliga, but that domination has some benefits.

But also takes away much potential (in regard of developing teams - replacing players) for the rest.
Take the BL matches - they are boring why should someone offer the same (or almost the same) money for BL as for EPL where the top matches are not so onesided as in Germany (fe. see the matches in the last years from schalke, leverkusen against Bayern). And lets be honest noone (excluding the team fans) wants to see onesided matches.

Edit: that sounds like im blaming bayern for being to good but what i mean is that the BL needs to secure ways for other teams to develop to the top level without making bayern worst cuz at mom its too hard (if not impossible) for any team to keep a positive trend over some years going.


Was curious about this, so I just did some calculations about the goals per game of Europe's top five leagues (PL, Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, Ligue 1). The Bundesliga has the most goals per game by quite a bit:

Premier League: 302 goals in 120 matches, 2.516 goals per game
Bundesliga: 383 goals in 117 matches, 3.274 goals per game
La Liga: 407 goals in 140 matches, 2.907 goals per game
Serie A: 356 goals in 130 matches, 2.738 goals per game
Ligue 1: 335 goals in 140 matches, 2.393 goals per game

Fun fact: The Bundesliga has only had two 0-0 games in thirteen matchdays. Statistically, it should be the most entertaining :O

On November 28 2013 07:38 Twisted wrote:
If most goals = most entertaining, then the Scottish league is the most entertaining league in the world with their standard 6-6 scorelines ;o


SPL: 209 goals in 82 matches, 2.549 goals per game D:
@113candlemagic Office lady by day, lonely woman at night. | Official lolicon of thread 94273
Twisted
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Netherlands13554 Posts
November 27 2013 22:38 GMT
#1264
If most goals = most entertaining, then the Scottish league is the most entertaining league in the world with their standard 6-6 scorelines ;o
Moderator
Steveling
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Greece10806 Posts
November 27 2013 22:40 GMT
#1265
Gotta love scottish football, .
My dick has shrunk to the point where it looks like I have 3 balls.
Ferrose
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States11378 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-27 22:49:04
November 27 2013 22:46 GMT
#1266
BTW



They beat Juventus twice, Barca twice, Dortmund, CSKA Moscow twice, Viktoria Plzen twice, and Manchester City once to beat Barca's record of nine set in 2002. They've outscored the opposition 28-3, with two of the opposition's goals being penalties.
@113candlemagic Office lady by day, lonely woman at night. | Official lolicon of thread 94273
Steveling
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Greece10806 Posts
November 27 2013 22:57 GMT
#1267
Much performance, such amaze, woah.

Pretty sick though, they may get another treble this year.
My dick has shrunk to the point where it looks like I have 3 balls.
Copymizer
Profile Joined November 2010
Denmark2105 Posts
November 27 2013 23:07 GMT
#1268
Don't forget that BL has the highest average fan attendance in the european leagues
~~Yo man ! MBCGame HERO Fighting !! Holy check !
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28736 Posts
November 28 2013 00:25 GMT
#1269
wow that goal difference against those teams rofl.
Moderator
mevshero
Profile Joined December 2009
911 Posts
November 28 2013 01:20 GMT
#1270
haha, i really would like to know how many games bayern are unbeaten so far.
it's these 10 championsleague games with beating juve, barcelona, dortmund and so on + that like 40 games unbeaten in the bundesliga right now. that's so impressive.
Ferrose
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States11378 Posts
November 28 2013 01:37 GMT
#1271
Technically only 21, since they lost the DFB Super Cup to Dortmund. If you don't want to count that, it'd be 35, with the last loss being to Arsenal in the second leg of the UCL Ro16 in March.
@113candlemagic Office lady by day, lonely woman at night. | Official lolicon of thread 94273
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-28 08:00:02
November 28 2013 07:53 GMT
#1272
On November 28 2013 07:09 TheDWorm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2013 07:03 Twoflowers wrote:
On November 28 2013 06:51 TheDWorm wrote:
On November 28 2013 06:35 sharkie wrote:
Manchester United play so so so much better with Kagawa than without.

How the heck can a manager be so blind?

Mabye they should have asked Klopp.

And in regards of the Bundesliga vs EPL discussion i personally think that the important factor in the last decades was the competition (in favor of EPL). In Germany we have the same situation for years - no matter who is the attacking team (Bremen, Leverkusen, Schalke, Dortmund, Gladbach,...) - Bayern has got such an extrem financial advantage that they easy can change situations with just some transfers while the contender needs to have extrem good scouting/signings to even stay at the same level.


As long as Bayern stays in tip top international shape at least we get the points necessar to secure our CL-spots and the money that goes with them. Bayern maybe the dominating force in the bundeliga, but that domination has some benefits.

But also takes away much potential (in regard of developing teams - replacing players) for the rest.
Take the BL matches - they are boring why should someone offer the same (or almost the same) money for BL as for EPL where the top matches are not so onesided as in Germany (fe. see the matches in the last years from schalke, leverkusen against Bayern). And lets be honest noone (excluding the team fans) wants to see onesided matches.

Edit: that sounds like im blaming bayern for being to good but what i mean is that the BL needs to secure ways for other teams to develop to the top level without making bayern worst cuz at mom its too hard (if not impossible) for any team to keep a positive trend over some years going.


Interestingly enough, if you take out Bayern, then the BL is by far the most competitive league, both in terms of team performance and competitive regulations. That said, that's not the case, so you have to take Bayern into account.

The problem is that Bayern steadily built up their financial clout while the BL was still a secondary league. This meant that, like we see in basically every country with a not top-tier league, only one (maybe two) teams reaped the financial benefits. Because of this, the gap between Bayern and the rest continued to grow, and now we have a situation where Bayern has won 22 titles (the next highest being 5 by BVB and BMG) and there's no end in sight. Like I said, the BL probably has some of the best competitive regulations in Europe, but, like all European football, their still incredibly lax (compared to an American PoV).

Contrast that with England, where they were the major economic and cultural superpower on the continent for a very long time. This let a number of clubs become strong and develop as financial powerhouses, which has led to the situation we have now.

For the BL to become a really good league with a number of internationally competitive teams like England, rules would need to be implemented to somehow tear down some of Bayern's financial dominance and somehow lift other clubs to near that level. Until then, Bayern will continue to spend over double what BVB does and probably over 15 times what Eintracht Braunschweig does, and we won't see competition.

As a side note, even with Bayern's dominance, the Bundesliga has still had more different champions (5) since 2000 than the BPL (4), Serie A (4), and La Liga (3).

English is the global language, that's the PL's biggest advantage. The Spanish, Italian and German football cultures aren't worse in any way. People tend to underestimate the power of language.


The PL's advantage is money. England's advantage always has been money, and that (and language) is their advantage. I find German fans to be much more passionate and fun, and German games to be far more entertaining (not including Bayern games). But when England was the original powerhouse football league, that leads to it being the financial juggernaut among football leagues in Europe, and that leads to better teams and more competition.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
November 28 2013 08:52 GMT
#1273
Champions League Matchday 5 Day 2 Results!

Kick Off 19:45 GMT (+00:00) Unless Stated

[image loading] Shakhtar Donetsk ua 4-0 [image loading] Real Sociedad es

[image loading] Bayer Leverkusen de 0-5 [image loading] Manchester United [image loading]

[image loading] Juventus it 3-1 [image loading] FC København dk

[image loading] Real Madrid es 4-1 [image loading] Galatasaray tr

[image loading] Paris Saint-Germain fr 2-1 [image loading] Olympiacos gr

[image loading] Anderlecht be 2-3 [image loading] Benfica pt

Kick Off 17:00 GMT (+00:00)
[image loading] CSKA Moscow ru 1-3 [image loading] Bayern Munchen de

[image loading] Manchester City [image loading] 4-2 [image loading] FC Viktoria Plzeň cz





Champions League Matchday 5 Day 1 Results!

Kick Off 19:45 GMT (+00:00) Unless Stated

[image loading] Steaua Bucuresti ro 0-0 [image loading] Schalke 04 de

[image loading] Basel [image loading] 1-0 [image loading] Chelsea [image loading]

[image loading] Arsenal [image loading] 2-0 [image loading] Marseille fr

[image loading] Borussia Dortmund de 3-1 [image loading] Napoli it

Kick Off 17:00 GMT (+00:00)
[image loading] Zenit st. Petersburg ru 1-1 [image loading] Atletico Madrid es

[image loading] Porto pt 1-1 [image loading] Austria Wien at

[image loading] Celtic [image loading] 0-3 [image loading] AC Milan it

[image loading] Ajax nl 2-1 [image loading] Barcelona es

ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
drkcid
Profile Joined October 2012
Spain196 Posts
November 28 2013 08:55 GMT
#1274
On November 28 2013 08:07 Copymizer wrote:
Don't forget that BL has the highest average fan attendance in the european leagues


In my country, the press thinks that its because the average ticket prices. Here sometimes you have to pay 90 € for a match, in the BL the prices are around 30 € (?)

How are the prices in your countries, guys (more less)?
Just for fun
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-28 08:59:38
November 28 2013 08:59 GMT
#1275
Qualified Teams for RO16


Pot 1
[image loading] Real Madrid es
[image loading] Atletico Madrid es
[image loading] Paris Saint-Germain fr

Pot 2
None Yet

To Be Determined
[image loading] Bayern Munchen de
[image loading] Manchester City [image loading]
[image loading] Barcelona es
[image loading] Chelsea [image loading]


ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
Malinor
Profile Joined November 2008
Germany4732 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-28 09:10:02
November 28 2013 08:59 GMT
#1276
I cannot get over what Leverkusen showed us yesterday. OIf course the team can clearly play much better, but this really has to be a mentallity thing - for years and years, as soon as they play an international team with a big name, they just let themselves get destroyed. And it is not only because the other team is a bit better, they just stand by and watch the other team play football, they don't fight back.
The game vs ManU demonstrated why this team is not going to win anything (besides maybe a German Cup once in a while). It sounds so clichée but they simply don't have a winning mentallity. I don't even know why I should root for them to get to the Ro16 - they would just get destroyed anyway.

My consolation is that I think they are more like the forth best team in Germany. Dortmund is clearly better and I think even Schalke would be much better - but they have to deal with lots of injuries, a not very good coach and an even worse front office (I still cannot comprehend why they fired Stevens). But if everyone was healthy, the team would be very strong regardless.

Anyway, yesterday's performance is just inexcusable and I haven't felt so strongly about a football game in forever. This game really puts the Bundesliga in a bad light. I hope they feel the shame.
There is a very real possibility that only one german team makes it through to the Ro16... hopefully Dortmund won't let that happen, but I don't have much trust in the other two teams anymore. Basel just looks stronger than Schalke and Leverkusen winning in Spain... I don't think that is going to happen.
"Withstand. Suffer. Live as you must now live. There will, one day, be answer to this." ||| "A life, Jimmy, you know what that is? It's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come."
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18570 Posts
November 28 2013 09:15 GMT
#1277
On November 28 2013 17:59 Malinor wrote:
I cannot get over what Leverkusen showed us yesterday. OIf course the team can clearly play much better, but this really has to be a mentallity thing - for years and years, as soon as they play an international team with a big name, they just let themselves get destroyed. And it is not only because the other team is a bit better, they just stand by and watch the other team play football, they don't fight back.
The game vs ManU demonstrated why this team is not going to win anything (besides maybe a German Cup once in a while). It sounds so clichée but they simply don't have a winning mentallity. I don't even know why I should root for them to get to the Ro16 - they would just get destroyed anyway.

My consolation is that I think they are more like the forth best team in Germany. Dortmund is clearly better and I think even Schalke would be much better - but they have to deal with lots of injuries, a not very good coach and an even worse front office (I still cannot comprehend why they fired Stevens). But if everyone was healthy, the team would be very strong regardless.

Anyway, yesterday's performance is just inexcusable and I haven't felt so strongly about a football game in forever. This game really puts the Bundesliga in a bad light. I hope they feel the shame.
There is a very real possibility that only one german team makes it through to the Ro16... hopefully Dortmund won't let that happen, but I don't have much trust in the other two teams anymore. Basel just looks stronger than Schalke and Leverkusen winning in Spain... I don't think that is going to happen.


Worst thing was leverkusen players being arrogant before the match. I didnt know leverkusen is such a powerhouse to justify this mentality.
Micro_Jackson
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany2002 Posts
November 28 2013 09:37 GMT
#1278
On November 28 2013 16:53 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2013 07:09 TheDWorm wrote:
On November 28 2013 07:03 Twoflowers wrote:
On November 28 2013 06:51 TheDWorm wrote:
On November 28 2013 06:35 sharkie wrote:
Manchester United play so so so much better with Kagawa than without.

How the heck can a manager be so blind?

Mabye they should have asked Klopp.

And in regards of the Bundesliga vs EPL discussion i personally think that the important factor in the last decades was the competition (in favor of EPL). In Germany we have the same situation for years - no matter who is the attacking team (Bremen, Leverkusen, Schalke, Dortmund, Gladbach,...) - Bayern has got such an extrem financial advantage that they easy can change situations with just some transfers while the contender needs to have extrem good scouting/signings to even stay at the same level.


As long as Bayern stays in tip top international shape at least we get the points necessar to secure our CL-spots and the money that goes with them. Bayern maybe the dominating force in the bundeliga, but that domination has some benefits.

But also takes away much potential (in regard of developing teams - replacing players) for the rest.
Take the BL matches - they are boring why should someone offer the same (or almost the same) money for BL as for EPL where the top matches are not so onesided as in Germany (fe. see the matches in the last years from schalke, leverkusen against Bayern). And lets be honest noone (excluding the team fans) wants to see onesided matches.

Edit: that sounds like im blaming bayern for being to good but what i mean is that the BL needs to secure ways for other teams to develop to the top level without making bayern worst cuz at mom its too hard (if not impossible) for any team to keep a positive trend over some years going.


Interestingly enough, if you take out Bayern, then the BL is by far the most competitive league, both in terms of team performance and competitive regulations. That said, that's not the case, so you have to take Bayern into account.

The problem is that Bayern steadily built up their financial clout while the BL was still a secondary league. This meant that, like we see in basically every country with a not top-tier league, only one (maybe two) teams reaped the financial benefits. Because of this, the gap between Bayern and the rest continued to grow, and now we have a situation where Bayern has won 22 titles (the next highest being 5 by BVB and BMG) and there's no end in sight. Like I said, the BL probably has some of the best competitive regulations in Europe, but, like all European football, their still incredibly lax (compared to an American PoV).

Contrast that with England, where they were the major economic and cultural superpower on the continent for a very long time. This let a number of clubs become strong and develop as financial powerhouses, which has led to the situation we have now.

For the BL to become a really good league with a number of internationally competitive teams like England, rules would need to be implemented to somehow tear down some of Bayern's financial dominance and somehow lift other clubs to near that level. Until then, Bayern will continue to spend over double what BVB does and probably over 15 times what Eintracht Braunschweig does, and we won't see competition.

As a side note, even with Bayern's dominance, the Bundesliga has still had more different champions (5) since 2000 than the BPL (4), Serie A (4), and La Liga (3).

Show nested quote +
English is the global language, that's the PL's biggest advantage. The Spanish, Italian and German football cultures aren't worse in any way. People tend to underestimate the power of language.


The PL's advantage is money. England's advantage always has been money, and that (and language) is their advantage. I find German fans to be much more passionate and fun, and German games to be far more entertaining (not including Bayern games). But when England was the original powerhouse football league, that leads to it being the financial juggernaut among football leagues in Europe, and that leads to better teams and more competition.


Another thing that is overlooked is the stadiums. Thats also a part of the reason german clubs couldn't make an impact international in the 2000 - 2010 period. For the WM 2006 a lot of stadiums were made, locking up a lot of investment money in that decade. This was mainly because almost all these stadiums were "buyed" and owned by the clubs and the city.

The fact that most of the stadiums are part-owned by the city (mostly they have a part of a sub company of the clubs that "own" the stadium) maybe looks weird but is a huge reason why the Bundesliga has the reputation of the fan friendliest league in Europe. Every Stadium has a great infrastructure because the city has an interest to make the Stadium and the Club as successful as possible because it makes money for them.

The big, big elephant in the room on that topic is Bayern Munichs Allianz Arena. If nothing goes totally wrong the Stadium will be payed in 2018 (planned was 2028). To have a building worth 300 million without any debts on it as a mid size company makes them a unicorn in football and an insanely healthy company. The financial firepower they will have is almost obscene.
Daswollvieh
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
5553 Posts
November 28 2013 12:15 GMT
#1279
On November 28 2013 18:15 sharkie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2013 17:59 Malinor wrote:
I cannot get over what Leverkusen showed us yesterday. OIf course the team can clearly play much better, but this really has to be a mentallity thing - for years and years, as soon as they play an international team with a big name, they just let themselves get destroyed. And it is not only because the other team is a bit better, they just stand by and watch the other team play football, they don't fight back.
The game vs ManU demonstrated why this team is not going to win anything (besides maybe a German Cup once in a while). It sounds so clichée but they simply don't have a winning mentallity. I don't even know why I should root for them to get to the Ro16 - they would just get destroyed anyway.

My consolation is that I think they are more like the forth best team in Germany. Dortmund is clearly better and I think even Schalke would be much better - but they have to deal with lots of injuries, a not very good coach and an even worse front office (I still cannot comprehend why they fired Stevens). But if everyone was healthy, the team would be very strong regardless.

Anyway, yesterday's performance is just inexcusable and I haven't felt so strongly about a football game in forever. This game really puts the Bundesliga in a bad light. I hope they feel the shame.
There is a very real possibility that only one german team makes it through to the Ro16... hopefully Dortmund won't let that happen, but I don't have much trust in the other two teams anymore. Basel just looks stronger than Schalke and Leverkusen winning in Spain... I don't think that is going to happen.


Worst thing was leverkusen players being arrogant before the match. I didnt know leverkusen is such a powerhouse to justify this mentality.


I stopped watching after the first. Their incompetence was only matched by their insecurity. What an abysmal performance...
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6261 Posts
November 28 2013 12:57 GMT
#1280
On November 28 2013 07:24 Maenander wrote:
Why is anyone surprised?
That was a typical Leverkusen performance against the "big guys". Just remember the 0-7 against Barca lol. That team has a fragile spirit.
Show nested quote +
On November 28 2013 06:22 wingpawn wrote:
England has best football culture in the world, period.

Oh, and EPLs wealth comes from Russia, USA and United Arab Emirates, lol.

English is the global language, that's the PL's biggest advantage. The Spanish, Italian and German football cultures aren't worse in any way. People tend to underestimate the power of language.

Spanish is a global language as well and they're still not close to the BPL.
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