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2012 - 2013 Football Thread! - Page 406

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Steveling
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Greece10806 Posts
May 13 2013 10:32 GMT
#8101
So, silly me thought fifa13 was the latest version and went and bought it from origin, shall I get fifa14 too?
I'm so bad in this game, Q_Q.
My dick has shrunk to the point where it looks like I have 3 balls.
malcram
Profile Joined November 2010
2752 Posts
May 13 2013 10:43 GMT
#8102
would it be absurd for Rafa to somehow end up in Man City? lol... just saying it out loud.
DaMuffinman
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany1705 Posts
May 13 2013 10:53 GMT
#8103
On May 13 2013 19:32 Steveling wrote:
So, silly me thought fifa13 was the latest version and went and bought it from origin, shall I get fifa14 too?
I'm so bad in this game, Q_Q.

FIFA 13 is the latest, FIFA 14 is just preorder
But does it djent?
Tazza
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Korea (South)1678 Posts
May 13 2013 11:15 GMT
#8104
On May 13 2013 19:43 malcram wrote:
would it be absurd for Rafa to somehow end up in Man City? lol... just saying it out loud.

It would be pretty amusing, but i'm really much more interested to see how pellegrini will do. I think he's a hugely underrated coach that deserves more respect. Deserved better at madrid, but how can u blame real for replacing him when mourinho was on that run after porto
kyllinghest
Profile Joined December 2011
Norway1607 Posts
May 13 2013 11:34 GMT
#8105
On May 13 2013 20:15 Tazza wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2013 19:43 malcram wrote:
would it be absurd for Rafa to somehow end up in Man City? lol... just saying it out loud.

It would be pretty amusing, but i'm really much more interested to see how pellegrini will do. I think he's a hugely underrated coach that deserves more respect. Deserved better at madrid, but how can u blame real for replacing him when mourinho was on that run after porto

While I agree that Pellegrini definately has deserved some respect, I think the person that gets shat on the most here is Mancini. Insane to even think about replacing him!
"NO" -Has
Ysellian
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands9029 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-13 11:41:06
May 13 2013 11:39 GMT
#8106
On May 13 2013 20:34 kyllinghest wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2013 20:15 Tazza wrote:
On May 13 2013 19:43 malcram wrote:
would it be absurd for Rafa to somehow end up in Man City? lol... just saying it out loud.

It would be pretty amusing, but i'm really much more interested to see how pellegrini will do. I think he's a hugely underrated coach that deserves more respect. Deserved better at madrid, but how can u blame real for replacing him when mourinho was on that run after porto

While I agree that Pellegrini definately has deserved some respect, I think the person that gets shat on the most here is Mancini. Insane to even think about replacing him!


No it isn't, Mancini has done very little with the resources he has had at his disposal and he has been given more than enough time. People call Mourinho a failure for reaching the champions league semi-final three times and winning only 1 league and 1 cup, but this guy has achieved far less with the same resources.

edit: Mourinho a failure for his time at Madrid obviously.
Tazza
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Korea (South)1678 Posts
May 13 2013 11:43 GMT
#8107
On May 13 2013 20:34 kyllinghest wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2013 20:15 Tazza wrote:
On May 13 2013 19:43 malcram wrote:
would it be absurd for Rafa to somehow end up in Man City? lol... just saying it out loud.

It would be pretty amusing, but i'm really much more interested to see how pellegrini will do. I think he's a hugely underrated coach that deserves more respect. Deserved better at madrid, but how can u blame real for replacing him when mourinho was on that run after porto

While I agree that Pellegrini definately has deserved some respect, I think the person that gets shat on the most here is Mancini. Insane to even think about replacing him!

No, mancini is not being shat on. He's done so little with the resources and had some odd statements to say. I mean, ho can he complain about not getting RVP when you have balotelli, aguero, tevez, and dzeko. Should have instead looked to strengthen up the midfield.
BeaTeR
Profile Joined March 2003
Kazakhstan4130 Posts
May 13 2013 11:55 GMT
#8108
lol @ coentrao

Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
May 13 2013 12:06 GMT
#8109
On May 13 2013 20:39 Ysellian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2013 20:34 kyllinghest wrote:
On May 13 2013 20:15 Tazza wrote:
On May 13 2013 19:43 malcram wrote:
would it be absurd for Rafa to somehow end up in Man City? lol... just saying it out loud.

It would be pretty amusing, but i'm really much more interested to see how pellegrini will do. I think he's a hugely underrated coach that deserves more respect. Deserved better at madrid, but how can u blame real for replacing him when mourinho was on that run after porto

While I agree that Pellegrini definately has deserved some respect, I think the person that gets shat on the most here is Mancini. Insane to even think about replacing him!


No it isn't, Mancini has done very little with the resources he has had at his disposal and he has been given more than enough time. People call Mourinho a failure for reaching the champions league semi-final three times and winning only 1 league and 1 cup, but this guy has achieved far less with the same resources.

edit: Mourinho a failure for his time at Madrid obviously.


Yeah pretty much my view
City in the champions league twice, have failed to get out of their group with the likes of Nasri Aguero Yaya who have all been in that competition for all of their career's basically and he still can't get them to perform.
The icing on the cake for me is the way he handled their FA cup final, their is no way in hell they should of lost to Wigan, but they did and they lost it badly. Were 2nd best all over the park and only had one real opportunity, all be it it could of been a goal on any other day xD
300-400million spent on players 3-4 players on over £200,000 a week and still only has had 2 cups in his 3 season reign is pretty poor >.<
The way he has handled his players aswell has been poor from the Balotelli scandals to the Tevez incidence it is all crazy. I mean they rivaled Chelsea with the amount of shit going on at their club at one point! And thats bad
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
Telcontar
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom16710 Posts
May 13 2013 12:19 GMT
#8110
Always nice to see big spenders fail.
Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.
Steveling
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Greece10806 Posts
May 13 2013 12:28 GMT
#8111
Btw yesterday messi was subbed out cause his thigh injury recurrenced.
They are saying he will be out for at least a month, basically season is over for him.

If tito managed to destroy the GOAT in his prime by using him when he wasn't fit with psg/bayern I will travel to spain and burn down his house.
My dick has shrunk to the point where it looks like I have 3 balls.
Ysellian
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands9029 Posts
May 13 2013 12:33 GMT
#8112
On May 13 2013 21:28 Steveling wrote:
Btw yesterday messi was subbed out cause his thigh injury recurrenced.
They are saying he will be out for at least a month, basically season is over for him.

If tito managed to destroy the GOAT in his prime by using him when he wasn't fit with psg/bayern I will travel to spain and burn down his house.


I'll pay for the expenses! I doubt it's going to be another Marco van Basten tho, that would the saddest thing ever.
Ferrose
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States11378 Posts
May 13 2013 12:37 GMT
#8113
On May 13 2013 21:28 Steveling wrote:
Btw yesterday messi was subbed out cause his thigh injury recurrenced.
They are saying he will be out for at least a month, basically season is over for him.

If tito managed to destroy the GOAT in his prime by using him when he wasn't fit with psg/bayern I will travel to spain and burn down his house.


But could you imagine the shitstorm if they didn't play Messi?
@113candlemagic Office lady by day, lonely woman at night. | Official lolicon of thread 94273
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
May 13 2013 12:42 GMT
#8114
Yeah but they have all but won the league there is nothing for them to play for? Might as well give him a holiday so he is epically rested for next season? No need to play him half injured/not fit, especially when Real drew the night before xD
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
sc4k
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United Kingdom5454 Posts
May 13 2013 12:49 GMT
#8115
I I were Bayern, Man U or Barca I would play a team entirely composed of youth players just the for the experience it would give them and so I didn't get any injuries for my first team...
Ysellian
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands9029 Posts
May 13 2013 12:51 GMT
#8116
On May 13 2013 21:49 sc4k wrote:
I I were Bayern, Man U or Barca I would play a team entirely composed of youth players just the for the experience it would give them and so I didn't get any injuries for my first team...


Have you been playing Football Manager lately? I always do that the moment I win the league.
Ferrose
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States11378 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-13 13:15:28
May 13 2013 13:02 GMT
#8117
On May 13 2013 21:42 Pandemona wrote:
Yeah but they have all but won the league there is nothing for them to play for? Might as well give him a holiday so he is epically rested for next season? No need to play him half injured/not fit, especially when Real drew the night before xD


I mean in the Champions League.

But I don't think it's fair to blame any specific person for this. Just look at Messi's appearance record. He plays every minute of every game, for club on country, and is very rarely subbed off. His body is probably wearing down from playing so many games.

According to ESPN, he already has 65 appearances this season (including internationals), with 59 starts. Last season he had 73 appearances, with 70 starts. 2010-11 61 appearances, 55 starts. 2009-10, 66 appearances, 60 starts. 2008-09, 64 appearances, 54 starts.

To me, the fact that it took this long for him to get injured, is an amazing feat.

On May 13 2013 21:51 Ysellian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2013 21:49 sc4k wrote:
I I were Bayern, Man U or Barca I would play a team entirely composed of youth players just the for the experience it would give them and so I didn't get any injuries for my first team...


Have you been playing Football Manager lately? I always do that the moment I win the league.


Me too man. But I think Bayern want to get all the records, and United had a tough schedule (they have to try to win when they play teams like City, Arsenal, and Chelsea), and now that Sir Alex is retiring of course all the first team players will play for his sending off, and I haven't really watched Barca play at all.

Found a great post possibly explaining the Falcao transfer on Reddit:

+ Show Spoiler +
You have probably all already seen that Falcao is destined for Monaco. There were a lot of rumors about a potential move to Manchester United, Chelsea, Real Madrid and others - so why does he end up moving to Monaco?

The answer is because of the complicated third-party ownership involved with Falcao. There was a very similar situation with Hulk when he moved to Zenit.

To explain this, we need to take a step back and first see how third party ownership works. Those in England would have previously seen this topic as it reached prominence when Carlos Tevez and Javier Mascherano signed for West Ham United. Here were two stars from Argentina signing for a club in London who were struggling to stay in the top flight. The controversy lead to West Ham paying compensation of £18M to Sheffield United, and lead the FA to ban third party ownership.

But third party ownership is still alive and well on the continent. It is most often applied with South American stars making the jump across the Atlantic to Europe. The way it works is that investment groups will purchase the registration rights of an upcoming player. This is sometimes done while the player is at a club, and sometimes as part of a transfer.

For eg. one scenario would be that a 16 year old star in South America would be approached by an agent and asked if he wants backing with marketing and making it big in Europe. These deals usually involve paying the player a better salary, hooking him up with a better agent, better management, sponsorship deals etc. If and when the player agrees, the third party owners will then go to the club he is registered to and negotiate to buy his registration rights - either all of or part of.
The player is then in the hands of the management and third party ownership group, who manage every aspect of his career from that point on. That usually involves paying him a larger salary on top of his club salary, placing him in clubs where he will get more exposure, etc.

The other way third-party ownership happens is that the investment group finances a transfer for a player. For eg. Porto want to sign a player from Brasil but don't have the funds, they would approach an investment group and have them stake 50-60% of the deal in return for the players registration rights.

The investment group make all of this upfront investment with the hope that at some point in the future the player proves himself, becomes a star, and can then exit at a very large valuation.

Some examples: Tevez and Mascherano were placed into West Ham by their investment group as a way of getting them more exposure. It worked out well in both cases as Liverpool purchased Mascherano (buying out the investment group and giving them a good return) and City eventually ended up buying out Tevez - albeit via Manchester United (who never owned the entirety of his transfer rights).

Back to Falcao. He was purchased by a third-party ownership group as part of his transfer to Porto. They bought 55% (likely more) of his transfer rights, supplemented his salary while he was paying at Porto and then moved him to Atletico for the purpose of getting him more exposure (likely with an eye on moving him eventually to Real Madrid). During the time Falcao was there, the investors were supplementing his wages again (infact paying most of them) and working on negotiating his big move which would see them cash out.

Porto's financials show the following for the Falcao transfer:

sale of 60% of the economic rights of the player Bolatti to the entity Natland Financieringsmaatschappij B.V., on July 2009, by the amount of, approximately, 1,500,000 Euro, (transaction perform under the acquisition process of 40% of the registration of Falcao)

There is another section where it is disclosed that they sold another 5% option in Falcao, and another section where it is disclosed that there is an option for a third party to purchase a further 10%.

The same filing shows that Porto only owned 45% of Hulk.

What is more interesting is who is involved in the Falcao ownership. The group is called Doyen Sports and it was founded by Jorge Mendes (most famous as Ronaldo's agent, but an infamous player agent who is involved in a lot of third-party deals) and Peter Kenyon (former Chelsea chairman).

On their website they have a page for Falcao and you can also see the other players listed. Falcao, like Hulk, ended up in a situation where there was so much invested in him that it would take a lot of money for the investors to see a return (known as being highly leveraged). They were paying his salary for a few seasons, had floated Atleti some money to keep them alive (they got some shirt sponsorship in return) and had made the initial investment when he first transferred.

Falcao ends up moving to Atletico in a 40M move - despite Atleti the previous season stating that they had to clear players out because of their 220M euro tax bill with the Spanish government. What this ended up being is a 20 + 20M deal. 20M never gets paid because its just the third-party owners paying themselves, and of the other 20M only 16M is owed by Atleti, who take an option of paying in two 8M installments (they were late on the first one, to the point of Porto suing). End situation is that around 60% of the rights are with the Doylen group. It also appears that while Falcao was at Atletico that Doylen took an option for a larger stake in him since Atleti were late on their payments. Something weird happen which involved Doylen taking a sponsorship. Either way, they had the majority stake and Atletico had no say or control of the player. For all purposes it was nothing more than a loan with Atletico having a small stake in his registration rights.

The president of Atletico Madrid continuously insisted that they own all the rights to Falcao, but this simply isn't true.
Falcao is on a wage of 10M euro per year, and the return the investors wanted is 60M euro in transfer fee. This narrows down the list of potential clubs that can buy you out to very few. Atletico had no say in where Falcao goes, they had an option in the winter transfer window, but that expired. The owners needed their return and they were going to get it one way or the other.

The list can be narrowed down to PSG, Monaco, Real Madrid, Chelsea and City. City aren't making large investments any longer, PSG have their fix of strikers. Of the remaining three, it is apparent that Real Madrid didn't want to pay up the 60M + 50M in contracts for Falcao (for whatever reason). Apparently Chelsea matched the 60M clause but to pay Falcao the 10M per season in wages would involve a total gross salary of 300k+ per week, which just isn't manageable. Chelsea also have the issue of not being allowed to directly purchase a player from a third-party owner (apparently this is what turned ManU off a move) so it would have required a two-step sale with Falcao going to one club outright and then to Chelsea. Apparently with the David Luiz transfer on the same day he moved to Chelsea Benfica bought out the entirety of his rights from third-party owners (so you can summize that Chelsea gave them the money to buy out that deal so that they could purchase 100% of Luiz directly from Benfica, thus avoiding the third-party rule in England).

With all of these factors you end up with only one target: Monaco. They have the 60M to pay out the investors, they have the funds to pay his wages of 10M per year and better yet they have no income tax so they don't have to supplement the gross.

So in the end Falcao is moved around Europe by his investors with the only goal of making a return for them. He has little to no say in his final destination because of a deal he agreed to years ago while he was still in South America.
@113candlemagic Office lady by day, lonely woman at night. | Official lolicon of thread 94273
sc4k
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United Kingdom5454 Posts
May 13 2013 13:20 GMT
#8118
On May 13 2013 21:51 Ysellian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2013 21:49 sc4k wrote:
I I were Bayern, Man U or Barca I would play a team entirely composed of youth players just the for the experience it would give them and so I didn't get any injuries for my first team...


Have you been playing Football Manager lately? I always do that the moment I win the league.


Actually I am pretty tired of the game, I have 640 hours in 2012 and 300 hours in 2011 (didn't buy 2013 no money). I have played a couple of games the new season but I took the England job with my French-American manager Dick Lepew, and it just takes ages to load every week so I haven't been that enthused to play it. But yeah, I am always THINKING football manager wise xD. It's all about getting cheeky wins with your young players and resting the good ones.
Steveling
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Greece10806 Posts
May 13 2013 13:42 GMT
#8119
So, uh, I'm trying to get my feet wet in fifa, should I play with manual aiming for shots/passes etc?
And wtf how do people do these crazy dribbles I see in youtube?
My dick has shrunk to the point where it looks like I have 3 balls.
Ysellian
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands9029 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-13 13:44:18
May 13 2013 13:43 GMT
#8120
On May 13 2013 22:20 sc4k wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2013 21:51 Ysellian wrote:
On May 13 2013 21:49 sc4k wrote:
I I were Bayern, Man U or Barca I would play a team entirely composed of youth players just the for the experience it would give them and so I didn't get any injuries for my first team...


Have you been playing Football Manager lately? I always do that the moment I win the league.


Actually I am pretty tired of the game, I have 640 hours in 2012 and 300 hours in 2011 (didn't buy 2013 no money). I have played a couple of games the new season but I took the England job with my French-American manager Dick Lepew, and it just takes ages to load every week so I haven't been that enthused to play it. But yeah, I am always THINKING football manager wise xD. It's all about getting cheeky wins with your young players and resting the good ones.


I never really enjoyed the international job much to be honest. A part of the game I never could get into and yet every time I keep accepting the job offer for some reason. Anyway I had to take a break from FM as well, mainly for losing one of my save games (Having steam cloud turned off was probably a bad idea), but I've recently started playing again. Nothing better than to remember why you love playing the game
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