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On May 15 2013 05:19 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:
What do you mean overstriding? how to Identify that im overstriding?
I used to have MASSIVE overstriding problems but fixed them an near-instantly became a better runner after I developed a short stride.
If you are reaching forward for ground then you are overstriding. You should not be reaching, you should almost be "falling" into the next step. If you stand with your toes about a foot from a wall, then fall forward until your forehead rests on the wall (bending at the ankles only), this is the feeling you should be going for while running. Increasing your cadence is also a good way to know if you are overstriding because it would be about impossible to reach 180 steps/min if you are reaching forward. A good way to do this is listen to a song with around 180 bpm--a lot of dance-type music might have this.
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Hey guys, intermediate-level runner here. Started running daily starting in mid-January by myself, every morning, about 2miles a day. Ran a 5k race last weekend, and was surprisingly easy for me.
It was in the evening and I was wondering if you guys feel like running at night feels like "cheating?" Personally, I enjoy the extra adrenaline-boost as it gets harder to see but I don't feel like I get a full workout unless I run in the morning and sweat it out.
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On May 15 2013 08:06 MooMooMugi wrote:
It was in the evening and I was wondering if you guys feel like running at night feels like "cheating?" Personally, I enjoy the extra adrenaline-boost as it gets harder to see but I don't feel like I get a full workout unless I run in the morning and sweat it out.
It's pretty variable for me. Outside of the odd night run for novelty or if my schedule makes no other run possible that day, I prefer to do anything that requires real effort or speed in the afternoon. I have a hard time getting to sleep when I want to if I run at night. In the morning my legs often feel stiff and heavy, which is no problem if I'm just going out for easy mileage, but not something I want to deal with when running intervals or what have you.
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On May 15 2013 05:19 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2013 02:59 L_Master wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 15 2013 01:53 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:
Ive been running for a while, but recently I want to get a bit more into it.
What is the right technique for running?
I know I should run at 180 paces per minute and with as least heel touching the ground as possible, but when I run like that I get to 85% average HRMax, when i'm shooting for 70-75% easy runs. Hmm, saying you should run at 180 paces per minute isn't entirely true. It's a good thought if you tend to overstride, as generally to bring that cadence up the stride must be shortened. However, you see elites running at cadences running from 170-200+. Keep in mind that is at race speed, and while cadence doesn't change tremendously (until sprinting) your cadence will get faster as you run faster. Heel not touching the ground might work as a mental cue, but physically that is incorrect. The heel always makes contact with ground on any stride, and if you actively try to prevent the heel from touching the ground at ANY point, then you develop inefficient running technique, as you aren't taking advantage of the stretch reflex and loading of the calf. To be honest, I don't think heel-striking is much of a problem, as long as you aren't overstriding. As long as your foot is landing lightly under your center of gravity what part of the foot that touches first makes little difference, and you see elite runners with all types of footstrikes, including heelstrikes. Also, like cadence, landing is influenced by speed. When was the last time you saw someone sprint with a massive heelstrike? The faster you go, the more bias there will be towards a more midfoot/forefoot based strike. As far as HR and running technique, it's probably some combination of two things. First is that often when you think about these things, especially cadence, you end up running faster as you are used to a particularly stride length and recruitment pattern. Additionally. as it isn't trained muscle memory yet the "correct" technique is not yet efficient. The solution to HR problem: slow your pace. What do you mean overstriding? how to Identify that im overstriding?
Overstriding is essentially when the foot lands in front of your center of mass. See: + Show Spoiler +
Whether the heel, toes, midfoot land first doesn't matter too much, but over-striding itself causes a breaking effect since you are landing in front of yourself.
On May 15 2013 08:06 MooMooMugi wrote:
Hey guys, intermediate-level runner here. Started running daily starting in mid-January by myself, every morning, about 2miles a day. Ran a 5k race last weekend, and was surprisingly easy for me.
It was in the evening and I was wondering if you guys feel like running at night feels like "cheating?" Personally, I enjoy the extra adrenaline-boost as it gets harder to see but I don't feel like I get a full workout unless I run in the morning and sweat it out.
Eh?
I'm not sure why it would feel like cheating. There is no advantage to running at night, unless you live in a particularly hot climate or something. Some people do feel more "on" at different times of the day though, which tends to allow you to run a bit faster/easier at that optimal time.
As Bonham mentioned it's best to do workouts when you are at your most efficient, as this will allow you to run the quickest paces; and more than likely get into a nicer rhythm which is a big part of what you are trying to "practice" via your track workouts. For normal easy runs it really doesn't matter all that much when you run.
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On May 15 2013 05:19 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2013 02:59 L_Master wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 15 2013 01:53 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:
Ive been running for a while, but recently I want to get a bit more into it.
What is the right technique for running?
I know I should run at 180 paces per minute and with as least heel touching the ground as possible, but when I run like that I get to 85% average HRMax, when i'm shooting for 70-75% easy runs. Hmm, saying you should run at 180 paces per minute isn't entirely true. It's a good thought if you tend to overstride, as generally to bring that cadence up the stride must be shortened. However, you see elites running at cadences running from 170-200+. Keep in mind that is at race speed, and while cadence doesn't change tremendously (until sprinting) your cadence will get faster as you run faster. Heel not touching the ground might work as a mental cue, but physically that is incorrect. The heel always makes contact with ground on any stride, and if you actively try to prevent the heel from touching the ground at ANY point, then you develop inefficient running technique, as you aren't taking advantage of the stretch reflex and loading of the calf. To be honest, I don't think heel-striking is much of a problem, as long as you aren't overstriding. As long as your foot is landing lightly under your center of gravity what part of the foot that touches first makes little difference, and you see elite runners with all types of footstrikes, including heelstrikes. Also, like cadence, landing is influenced by speed. When was the last time you saw someone sprint with a massive heelstrike? The faster you go, the more bias there will be towards a more midfoot/forefoot based strike. As far as HR and running technique, it's probably some combination of two things. First is that often when you think about these things, especially cadence, you end up running faster as you are used to a particularly stride length and recruitment pattern. Additionally. as it isn't trained muscle memory yet the "correct" technique is not yet efficient. The solution to HR problem: slow your pace. What do you mean overstriding? how to Identify that im overstriding?
You can do hill/incline sprints to help fix it. It's pretty much impossible to overstride then.
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On May 15 2013 08:06 MooMooMugi wrote:
Hey guys, intermediate-level runner here. Started running daily starting in mid-January by myself, every morning, about 2miles a day. Ran a 5k race last weekend, and was surprisingly easy for me.
It was in the evening and I was wondering if you guys feel like running at night feels like "cheating?" Personally, I enjoy the extra adrenaline-boost as it gets harder to see but I don't feel like I get a full workout unless I run in the morning and sweat it out.
I run at all times of the day, since I do shiftwork, 7am-7pm and 7pm-7am. Often I have my most productive workouts right after I am off work, whether it is night or daytime. When I try to run on my days off, I often struggle, I just can't get it together after sitting for a couple hours, and heading out to run.
I notice no real difference in my ability to run whether it is morning or night however, as others have said, it's not cheating! I have been having a hard time adjusting to summer temps though, running was alot easier when it was -14c compared to +25c.
If anyone has some suggestions for my days off, say I work wed-thu night and want to run saturday afternoon, I normally wont be very active between my work and when I run, how do you overcome the general lethargy with jumping into activity. Normally I try to do high carb meal in the morning, and before I run i do some exercises (not stretches), and use a foam roller (as I have had alot of issues with IT band/knee etc). After work a 50min 10k is a simple matter, on a day off I struggle to do 10k in 58..
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Hmm, I definitely don't have it to the degree you do. A bad day might be 7:50 pace as opposed to 7:30 pace or something.
Either way, what I do is this. If I am planning a workout I will do some drills (high knee, a skip, b skip, etc.) for like 5-10 mins then try to ease into some light jogging. If I still feel like garbage I just go for a slow easy run instead of the workout.
If I am planning to run easy I just ease into it. And I mean EASE into it. I've come through the first quarter of runs in 3:30-4:00, which is literally walking pace. I just let my body gradually adjust until it finds the pace that is good for the day and then I roll with that. Starting lazy when I feel lazy ends up making it mentally very comfortable for me.
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On May 15 2013 12:59 LagLovah wrote:
I run at all times of the day, since I do shiftwork, 7am-7pm and 7pm-7am. Often I have my most productive workouts right after I am off work, whether it is night or daytime. When I try to run on my days off, I often struggle, I just can't get it together after sitting for a couple hours, and heading out to run.
This sounds to me like you need a more gradual warmup on the days when you're not moving as much. If you don't want to try a gradual speedup like L Master suggests, maybe try riding a bike to a track or trailhead to wake up the legs and lungs. One word of caution: you may find stretching before you workout counterproductive.
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Warming up is something you need to adjust to. It's really boring to jo slowly for some minutes while you just want to start pushing hard. It really helps though. My solution is that I jog to the track that is open to the public at all times of the day and which is about 2km away from my home. So I have a nice and easy warm-up and can start running my intervals right when I'm there. I just started with exactly timed intervals and while it's really tough to push yourself through the work-out I can almost feel the improvement immediately. #nopainnogain
While I'm starting to work-out more seriously I know that increasing my runningdistance per week is most important to improve in the long term. My big problem though is that I hate running slowly. I usually push myself to the ~lactacte-threshold even if I just wanted to run 13km at an easy. I just have the urge to feel exploited after the work-out. And when I run for 18-20k and start slowly I still end up running way too fast at ~10k and end up totally wasted. Not sure how to adjust. My plan after the weekend (gonna run two 10k races) is to run intervals at tuesday with a slow 12k-13k at wednesday, a temporun at friday and a long jog at sunday for the next weeks. I've only been running three times per week before so I hope just increasing the runs per week will be enough to slow me down and make more mileage possible.
L_Master, any results on your MRI?
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What's the consensus on stretching before running? o.0
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Stretching before and after really helps me maintain my flexibility and pump some blood into my muscles
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@Don Julio - Not yet, it will probably take a day or two for them to send the results and then the GP will look at them. Good chance he won't notice anything in particular and it will be off to orthopedic guy with my evidences.
I do have a CD with all the MRI stuff, which is pretty neat....too bad I'm not trained to read an MRI though 
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On May 16 2013 07:40 Blisse wrote:
What's the consensus on stretching before running? o.0
I wouldn't go so far as to say there is a consensus, but generally the feeling is dynamic stretching is good before a run (think drills really) and then static streching after a run is good for improving range of motion and muscle length. Static stretching before a run isn't recommended because: a) some studies have found it decreases power output slightly, b) a cold muscle isn't as responsive to stretching as a warm one, and there is a slightly greater chance to injure something.
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On May 16 2013 10:02 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 07:40 Blisse wrote:
What's the consensus on stretching before running? o.0 I wouldn't go so far as to say there is a consensus, but generally the feeling is dynamic stretching is good before a run (think drills really) and then static streching after a run is good for improving range of motion and muscle length. Static stretching before a run isn't recommended because: a) some studies have found it decreases power output slightly, b) a cold muscle isn't as responsive to stretching as a warm one, and there is a slightly greater chance to injure something.
I'd advise against static stretching before any athletic activity. Maybe after can have some benefits but I'm of the mind that at best static stretching is neither negative nor positive so I don't waste any time with it. Dynamic stuff like drills and active range of motion stuff is good to do before a workout or race but not needed before any easy run.
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So initial report is some inflammation of pubic bone, as well as possible impingement. Will be going to see an orthopedist sometime here in the next week or two as soon as I can get in.
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Holy moly the weather has been nice here lately. Really makes training a lot more fun. I went out for a run after a work-related road trip last night, and the sun was up in a clear sky until around 10pm. And the lilac trees are blooming! Just fantastic.
Hit 140k last week, feeling pretty good – I get tired towards the end of a day's second run, but seem to bounce back pretty well. Aiming for around 150 this week, then 140 next week as I race on the 26th. Most of the mileage is whatever pace tickles my fancy, which this last week has meant a few tempos and random fartleks. Still doing two speed sessions a week, one easier (usually 400s or hill sprints) and one harder (usually mile repeats or speed ladder, both at the track). Excited for mile repeats later today.
On May 17 2013 12:04 L_Master wrote:
So initial report is some inflammation of pubic bone, as well as possible impingement. Will be going to see an orthopedist sometime here in the next week or two as soon as I can get in.
Good luck, man. Can you train at all, or is it painful? I hope you recover quickly from whatever mystery ailment this is.
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150 a week? Holy shit. You said earlier that you run nine times a week. Do you run every day or do you have off-days?
Had a 10k race tonight. It was raining all day and it got really ugly at the start of the race at 8pm. Had a pinkeye earlier this week so I had to run with glasses instead of contacts. Couldn't see anything so that I ran into deep puddles a couple of times and didnt even see the time at my watch at kilometermarks. Started too fast ... again, and had a hard time stabilizing. The last two km felt really good though so that I was able to push again. Finished at 46:30 which is 30 seconds faster than my PR from two weeks ago.
It was such a tough race which makes the PR so much sweeter. I'm going to run at another 10k monday, which was my first race ever a year ago. Let's see what I can do. Running and improving at running is so much fun atm. Totally addicted.
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150 a week? Holy shit. You said earlier that you run nine times a week. Do you run every day or do you have off-days?
Obviuously, I'm not Bonham, but before injury I was doing between 65-80 mpw (110-130 kpw) over 10-12 or so runs a week. I typically ran everyday, with double four or five days of the week. My Monday was usually a very light day though, something like 3-5 miles @ 2:30-3 min/mile slower than my 5k pace. The rest of the days were mostly easy runs, with 1-2 workouts each week.
Good luck, man. Can you train at all, or is it painful? I hope you recover quickly from whatever mystery ailment this is.
Not running. It's gets more painful as it goes on, and I don't want to risk doing serious damage, especially since we are looking at a potential bone problem.
The elliptical and bike seem to be fine, so I can maintain some fitness. Don't have the same motivation as running though, so I average like 5-7 hours of training a week at best, with maybe a light tempo type effort or two on these machines.
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First race back after a 9 year break today. Finished 3rd at a small 5k in 19:44 after 7 months of training. Feels good to be racing again, although I kind of feel like I gave up a little on myself towards the end. Great progress, though, and it's only lighting the fire more to get back out there and train harder and race better!
Thanks to all you guys for continuing to post in this thread and help keep me motivated.
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Good job. Really solid time. Giving up a little is quite normal if you're unexperienced at racing (I have the same issues but it gets better every race). Mental toughness is something that needs training, too.
So what's next? 10k? HM?
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