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On May 02 2013 07:09 Blisse wrote:
Do you guys have any thoughts about flat soled shoes like skater shoes? I walked a bit yesterday casually with them and the back of my left knee started giving me pains, but it seemed better when I switched shoes today... but it was annoying. Not running with them, of course. Bought the Nike Free's instead.
If anyone is interested, I talked with one of the girls at the Nike Running store in Toronto. She said that the difference between the Nike Free Runs and the Nike Free 5.0 is nothing. The Free Runs started as the Nike Free 5.0, then were renamed as the Nike Free Runs, then back now to the Nike Free 5.0. The 5.0 designates how much the shoe feels like you're running barefoot. The Nike Free 3.0 might as well be barefoot, while the 4.0 is less, and the 5.0 is more "normal". I took the 5.0 for now, but really I'm being stalled by some weird injury.
I'm getting weird pain at the bottom of my right lung when I do heavier breathing. First time experiencing it walking today, but I get it sometimes when I run. Happens within like 200m of starting, and gets progressively worse. I can try to run through it but it hurts after a couple km. Anyone else have anything similar in the past? This has been recurrent for many years now, only during running... >< I don't think I ever get this during badminton or swimming or other stuff. :/ I just walked instead today :\
The other day I accidentally wore my pair of flat sole shoes to work rather than my regular sneakers which have a little bit of support but still not too much. I'm on my feet virtually the whole day and the flat soled shoes felt better than I was used to feeling with my regular shoes. Then I was thinking about how I always used to wear flat sandals everywhere I could and it seemed to be the most comfortable thing for me. So for walking shoes I think there s something to flat soles. But that is just me and just for walking.
That being said, much contemporary running literature with up to date research is suggesting problems associated with running shoes designed to change your natural biomechanics. Things like having a raised heel, compensating for natural pronation, extra cushioning, and overly small widths are all things that may be problematic for some runners. If you're interested in why it matters during running there is lots of info out there.
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On May 02 2013 03:26 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Image doesn't work for me mate. I've got a few race picks but they tend not to put you in a flattering light, especially if take towards the end.
Bah!
Who cares if a race photo is flattering. Your supposed to look like a vicious animal, not a Calvin Klein model. Race photo's "flatteringness" come from that look of pure determination and competition.
If you are doing + Show Spoiler [this] + you aren't racing. Proper race photos look like + Show Spoiler [this] + or + Show Spoiler [this] + OR even + Show Spoiler [THIS] +
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On May 02 2013 01:15 Bonham wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 07:29 L_Master wrote:
3:26 pace, nice! :p
Seriously though, sick racing. Pretty excited to see how much more you're going to improve. Thanks! My next race is on May 25th. Something with a 33 in the start seems like a good goal, but I think the course has stairs in it, so who knows. Also, because I am exceedingly vain, a race photo! This is about a mile from the finish. The other runners are in the 5k. + Show Spoiler +
Stairs eh?
Like this? + Show Spoiler [STAIRS!!] +
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We should post action shots we have of ourselves. See who's the prettiest and who's the most badass.
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Yay, ran personal record yesterday. 47:05 @ 10km. It was only the third 10k race of my life and the second since I've started training more seriously in february. My other race five weeks ago was a 49:15 with terrible weather conditions. Ice cold, rough wind for the second half of the race. So it's hard to measure how much I've really improved (Yesterdays weather was lovely). I'm still really happy though.
Started a little too fast at a ~4:30 pace but stabilized at ~ km 2. Had a tough time at km 7 - 8 where I felt I was close to puking. So I slowed down a little because I was terrified of the little upwards slope at km 9. In retrospective it was unnecessary to slow down and I could have finished below 47. Well, I guess my mental toughness will improve with more races.
Have another one in the cup I'm running in 15 days. No idea how to train the next weeks. Gonna run a slow and relatively short route tomorrow and depending on how I feel either a longjog or a temporun at sunday.
And no action pics from me. I either look totally trashed while racing or trashed but on happy pills at the finish.
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Hello TL!
Firstly, I would like to thank all of you experienced runners for your advice and knowledge, and the time you've taken to share it. And I would like to also thank those inexperienced runners for asking some of your questions for me. I've been stalking this forum for a while now, I've read over half of it looking for tips that might apply to me. While I've read some interesting things, I don't know if I've really stumbled upon a solid solution to my problem (or maybe I missed it, I read most of this forum on my phone so I don't follow the links - videos too well)
28 years old. 6' even at 165 lbs, and I am an over-pronater. My running experience is very modest compared to many of you. I haven't done anything special in high school or college, just basic PE classes. No track or cross country or anything of that nature. About 5 years ago I ran consistently for 8 months or so. I made a lot of mistakes and I had a lot of "No pain no game" mentality, simply from ignorance. But I loved running and I wish to get back to that life style. Back then I was running 4 miles (35-45 minutes a run) or so 3-4 times a week, always skipping a day or two for rest. I bought shoes to help with over-pronating but I get horrible, horrible shin-splints (the shoes helped, but didnt cure) sometimes I would take a week, even two weeks off from running just to make sure my shins were healed up.
I just started running again this year. Same old shin splints. I can't seem to get my mileage past 2-3 miles before my shins start to kill me (and I believe the best way to heal them is ice and rest). I've been trying to stretch my calves and tibialis muscles before and after runs, been working on simple strengthening exercises too (walking around the house on my heels and such). So in addition to all of this, I was wondering if I can alter my running form?
I am a heel striker but I'm attempting to land midfoot. I'm not entirely sure how to go about that. I am open to all suggestions on this. I hear, for example, landing forefoot is the way to go for some?
Any advice or recommendations would be much appreciated. I see that you guys often ask what our goals for running are. Personally I would like to run 6 days a week at least an hour a day per session and go from there. I'd like to run the LA marathon in under 4 hours next year without my shins exploding. I'd like to get my mpw up to 50-60 and improve from there.
On a good week, my mpw is under 8. I just recently realized I may be running much too fast? Here are some times from my last few runs...
1.20 miles 12m13s
1.55 miles 16m26s
2.34 miles 25m25s
2.53 miles 27m32s
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated guys!
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I can't really offer any advice with the shin splints issue because I've been lucky enough to never get an injury and naturally run with a normal running stance.
As for training for the LA marathon and increasing your mileage/speed, I recommend losing some weight. Right now you're skinny for a normal non runner but for marathon running you're a little on the heavy side. It might be that you're well built and I'm talking rubbish but in my experience losing weight (at least until you're BMI 19-20ish) is the way to see the quickest gains in the short term. If you could get down to 150lbs you'd see some clear improvement.
Other than that it's all about miles on the road, the more you run the better you get. Just keep upping your schedule every week and over the course of several months you'll see big improvements.
If at all possible you should try and find someone else to run with, preferably someone who's better than you or join a running club. I don't do this myself due to not being able to commit because of my work patterns but it definitely helps to have others to motivate you, compete against and drag you along when you really want to stop or slow down.
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On May 02 2013 07:09 Blisse wrote:
Do you guys have any thoughts about flat soled shoes like skater shoes? I walked a bit yesterday casually with them and the back of my left knee started giving me pains, but it seemed better when I switched shoes today... but it was annoying. Not running with them, of course. Bought the Nike Free's instead.
If anyone is interested, I talked with one of the girls at the Nike Running store in Toronto. She said that the difference between the Nike Free Runs and the Nike Free 5.0 is nothing. The Free Runs started as the Nike Free 5.0, then were renamed as the Nike Free Runs, then back now to the Nike Free 5.0. The 5.0 designates how much the shoe feels like you're running barefoot. The Nike Free 3.0 might as well be barefoot, while the 4.0 is less, and the 5.0 is more "normal". I took the 5.0 for now, but really I'm being stalled by some weird injury.
I'm getting weird pain at the bottom of my right lung when I do heavier breathing. First time experiencing it walking today, but I get it sometimes when I run. Happens within like 200m of starting, and gets progressively worse. I can try to run through it but it hurts after a couple km. Anyone else have anything similar in the past? This has been recurrent for many years now, only during running... >< I don't think I ever get this during badminton or swimming or other stuff. :/ I just walked instead today :\
If I don't eat enough before running I get some upper right abdo pain just below my ribcage. I don't know if that's what you're describing but I'm 90% certain I've narrowed it down to not eating enough as the cause.
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On May 02 2013 14:23 AirbladeOrange wrote:
We should post action shots we have of ourselves. See who's the prettiest and who's the most badass.
I will next time I return to action. I'll try and put up some videos too.
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On a good week, my mpw is under 8. I just recently realized I may be running much too fast? Here are some times from my last few runs...
1.20 miles 12m13s
1.55 miles 16m26s
2.34 miles 25m25s
2.53 miles 27m32s
Nothing there tells me whether you are running too fast or not. This could be murder for you, or hilariously easy. Without knowing race times or at least some workout times it's pretty much impossible to know because their is so much variation. For a top elite. 3 miles in 18:00 would be a really slow jog, so a quick pace doesn't neccessarily mean not easy.
The real question is, is it easy? That's a subjective question, and one only you can answer.
So in addition to all of this, I was wondering if I can alter my running form?
I am a heel striker but I'm attempting to land midfoot. I'm not entirely sure how to go about that. I am open to all suggestions on this. I hear, for example, landing forefoot is the way to go for some?
I'm still not convinced that this heel/midfoot/forefoot matters all that much. Great runners come in all varieties. The key though is the foot landing. If your foot is landing way out in front of your center of mass that's going to apply alot of un natural force. To work on that make sure you have a nice, slight natural forward lean, and it should be a total body lean you don't bend from your back (google "2012 Olympic 10,000m" or something to get an idea of this posture). The other thing to focus on is a slightly quicker turnover, as that tends to counter the loping overstride that often results in foot landings in front of center of mass. Cadence wise you are looking for about 170-180 steps per minute.
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Lagat's face in that last photo made me laugh.
The stairs, I hope, won't be quite like those, but the Google Map of the course tells me nothing, so who knows.
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Nothing there tells me whether you are running too fast or not. This could be murder for you, or hilariously easy. Without knowing race times or at least some workout times it's pretty much impossible to know because their is so much variation. For a top elite. 3 miles in 18:00 would be a really slow jog, so a quick pace doesn't neccessarily mean not easy.
The real question is, is it easy? That's a subjective question, and one only you can answer.
Those were fairly challenging runs, I always try to run until I'm nearly depleted. And the more I've been running lately, the more energy I have towards the end of my two miles but my shins stop me from continuing.
I'm still not convinced that this heel/midfoot/forefoot matters all that much. Great runners come in all varieties. The key though is the foot landing. If your foot is landing way out in front of your center of mass that's going to apply alot of un natural force. To work on that make sure you have a nice, slight natural forward lean, and it should be a total body lean you don't bend from your back (google "2012 Olympic 10,000m" or something to get an idea of this posture). The other thing to focus on is a slightly quicker turnover, as that tends to counter the loping overstride that often results in foot landings in front of center of mass. Cadence wise you are looking for about 170-180 steps per minute.
I will work on this, and try to land under my center of mass... maybe I can ask a running friend to watch my form and make sure I'm not imagining form improvements. =)
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On May 03 2013 02:13 KeyEverburn wrote:Show nested quote +
Nothing there tells me whether you are running too fast or not. This could be murder for you, or hilariously easy. Without knowing race times or at least some workout times it's pretty much impossible to know because their is so much variation. For a top elite. 3 miles in 18:00 would be a really slow jog, so a quick pace doesn't neccessarily mean not easy.
The real question is, is it easy? That's a subjective question, and one only you can answer.
Those were fairly challenging runs, I always try to run until I'm nearly depleted. And the more I've been running lately, the more energy I have towards the end of my two miles but my shins stop me from continuing. Show nested quote +
I'm still not convinced that this heel/midfoot/forefoot matters all that much. Great runners come in all varieties. The key though is the foot landing. If your foot is landing way out in front of your center of mass that's going to apply alot of un natural force. To work on that make sure you have a nice, slight natural forward lean, and it should be a total body lean you don't bend from your back (google "2012 Olympic 10,000m" or something to get an idea of this posture). The other thing to focus on is a slightly quicker turnover, as that tends to counter the loping overstride that often results in foot landings in front of center of mass. Cadence wise you are looking for about 170-180 steps per minute.
I will work on this, and try to land under my center of mass... maybe I can ask a running friend to watch my form and make sure I'm not imagining form improvements. =)
Do you always run on hard surfaces? Does it hurt when you run on soft surfaces?
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On May 02 2013 22:24 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 07:09 Blisse wrote:
Do you guys have any thoughts about flat soled shoes like skater shoes? I walked a bit yesterday casually with them and the back of my left knee started giving me pains, but it seemed better when I switched shoes today... but it was annoying. Not running with them, of course. Bought the Nike Free's instead.
If anyone is interested, I talked with one of the girls at the Nike Running store in Toronto. She said that the difference between the Nike Free Runs and the Nike Free 5.0 is nothing. The Free Runs started as the Nike Free 5.0, then were renamed as the Nike Free Runs, then back now to the Nike Free 5.0. The 5.0 designates how much the shoe feels like you're running barefoot. The Nike Free 3.0 might as well be barefoot, while the 4.0 is less, and the 5.0 is more "normal". I took the 5.0 for now, but really I'm being stalled by some weird injury.
I'm getting weird pain at the bottom of my right lung when I do heavier breathing. First time experiencing it walking today, but I get it sometimes when I run. Happens within like 200m of starting, and gets progressively worse. I can try to run through it but it hurts after a couple km. Anyone else have anything similar in the past? This has been recurrent for many years now, only during running... >< I don't think I ever get this during badminton or swimming or other stuff. :/ I just walked instead today :\ If I don't eat enough before running I get some upper right abdo pain just below my ribcage. I don't know if that's what you're describing but I'm 90% certain I've narrowed it down to not eating enough as the cause.
You are a boss. I'll try this out when I can. :D Hopefully that's the issue. For morning runs, is that breakfast before the run, or a good dinner the night before?
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On May 02 2013 14:23 AirbladeOrange wrote:
We should post action shots we have of ourselves. See who's the prettiest and who's the most badass.
Wait, don't you have a sweet beard? I feel like this would give ou an unfair advantage in the badassery department.
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Do you always run on hard surfaces? Does it hurt when you run on soft surfaces?
I don't run on concrete, but my running trail is asphalt, there are shoulders I can run on periodically that are gravel, but I primarily run on asphalt. I don't really have access to a running track around here that I know of. The nearby high school is heavily gated off after hours... and any other school is a bit too far out of my way.
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On May 03 2013 03:08 Blisse wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 22:24 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 07:09 Blisse wrote:
Do you guys have any thoughts about flat soled shoes like skater shoes? I walked a bit yesterday casually with them and the back of my left knee started giving me pains, but it seemed better when I switched shoes today... but it was annoying. Not running with them, of course. Bought the Nike Free's instead.
If anyone is interested, I talked with one of the girls at the Nike Running store in Toronto. She said that the difference between the Nike Free Runs and the Nike Free 5.0 is nothing. The Free Runs started as the Nike Free 5.0, then were renamed as the Nike Free Runs, then back now to the Nike Free 5.0. The 5.0 designates how much the shoe feels like you're running barefoot. The Nike Free 3.0 might as well be barefoot, while the 4.0 is less, and the 5.0 is more "normal". I took the 5.0 for now, but really I'm being stalled by some weird injury.
I'm getting weird pain at the bottom of my right lung when I do heavier breathing. First time experiencing it walking today, but I get it sometimes when I run. Happens within like 200m of starting, and gets progressively worse. I can try to run through it but it hurts after a couple km. Anyone else have anything similar in the past? This has been recurrent for many years now, only during running... >< I don't think I ever get this during badminton or swimming or other stuff. :/ I just walked instead today :\ If I don't eat enough before running I get some upper right abdo pain just below my ribcage. I don't know if that's what you're describing but I'm 90% certain I've narrowed it down to not eating enough as the cause. You are a boss. I'll try this out when I can. :D Hopefully that's the issue. For morning runs, is that breakfast before the run, or a good dinner the night before?
I think either will probably do, but I always eat a bowl of Cereal before I go out personally.
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On May 03 2013 04:09 KeyEverburn wrote:Show nested quote +
Do you always run on hard surfaces? Does it hurt when you run on soft surfaces?
I don't run on concrete, but my running trail is asphalt, there are shoulders I can run on periodically that are gravel, but I primarily run on asphalt. I don't really have access to a running track around here that I know of. The nearby high school is heavily gated off after hours... and any other school is a bit too far out of my way.
Certainly in my experiences, and many comments I have heard echo similar thoughts, is that ideally you will run on a variety of surfaces. The majority of it on trails/soft surfaces, but a little concrete is good for different muscles, strength for impact, and efficiency of stride. A little cross-country type running doesn't hurt easier as it again it uses a few different muscles in way you wouldn't always use them.
Variety is a good thing in running in almost all cases. In this case it's mostly about injury prevention and mixing it up. Doing the exact same thing everytime seems to result in greater frequencies of injuries.
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Though I've talked about some of this in the thread already here is a write up I did for a reddit post. Any thoughts/advice?
(I’m a poor writer so please excuse all the mistakes and the overall crappiness of the text below!)
I recently started running again after 9 years of very little exercise. After graduating high school in 2003 I had run about 200 miles before this recent start up.
My last year of running before the long break was very disheartening seeing as though I made little to no improvement. I had been pushed by fellow runners up until that point but during my senior year there was no one near my skill level and I was running to stay in shape more than to improve. I ran a 9:39 3200m during the end of my junior year was aiming for 9:15 my senior year which I didn’t come close to. With a 9:42 being the best I could do with the second fastest person on my team being an 11:15 I hung up my running shoes and didn’t continue in college.
I have always had to the goal of running the Boston Marathon but was never able to get back into shape without injuring myself quickly. With this recent attempt I found a group to run with that helped me keep the pace and mileage slow and low when starting out.
Here is a rundown of my workouts since I met up with my running group:
Start stats: 5’9 170lbs 27/m
Nov 1st – Nov 17th – Workouts: ~7 Distance: ~24 Longest: 5 (No GPS watch to keep track)
First GPS watch workout Nov 18th – Dec 3rd –Workouts: 7 Distance: 26.82 Longest: 8.25
Dec 3rd – Dec 23rd – Workouts: 10 Distance: 55.12 Longest: 13.1
Dec 24th – Jan 15th – Workouts: 9 Distance: 42.84 Longest: 10
Jan 16th – Feb 5th – Workouts: 11 Distance 50.33 Longest: 6.09
Feb 6th – Feb 27th – Workouts: 3 Distance: 19.4 Longest: 8.5 (Run that caused injury Feb 16th)
Feb 27th – Mar 20th – No workouts
March 21st – April 11th – Workouts: 8 Distance: 40.53 Longest: 6.6
April 12th - May 1st – Workouts: 9 Distance: 45.32 Longest: 13.23
End Stats: 5’8 146lbs 28/m
Missing workouts throughout training: Workouts: 5~ Distance: 25~ Longest: 7~
Total distance from Nov 1st – May 1st : 329 Miles in 69 Workouts average 4.8 miles a run
Runs 8 miles or above: 7
Races(Included in workout totals):
November 22nd – 19:57 5k http://bit.ly/T95umn Effort: 100% Course: Flat
January 19th - 38:40 10k http://bit.ly/WOru6L Effort: 100% Course: Flat
April 6th – 18:34 5k http://bit.ly/YRqIeY Effort: 100% Course: Some tough hills
April 28th – 1:29:46 Half marathon http://bit.ly/ZIAp0v Effort: 85% Course: Very Hilly!
About the races:
-The first 5k was just 3 weeks after I started training and I wanted to use it to gauge my speed and abilities at this point. It was a flat course and breaking 20 minutes was the goal that I set and barely met. I have been blessed with natural talent that allowed me to do so well for my first race.
-The 10k that I did in January was extremely painful and forced me to walk 2 times during the duration of the race. I had the goal of breaking 39 minutes and surprisingly did so with very little room to breath.
-In April I was a bit worried for this race seeing as though it had a nice 150ft elevation gain in the first .5 miles of the race. I had also been injured for most of February and March so I wasn’t sure how I would do. I had the goal of breaking 18 minutes and fell short seeing as though the hills in this race were too much for me to handle at that speed. The last mile of the race hit me very hard mentally and I told myself I would never race/run again because I never wanted to willingly hurt myself this bad again.
-Finally the goal of moving up distances brought me to my first half marathon. I was still trying to recover from my arch injury and couldn’t get my mileage up to properly race this distance. My sister asked me to run this half marathon unaware of how hilly it was but seeing as though she would spot me half the entry fee I decided to suck it up and go for it. Here is the course: http://www.lajollahalfmarathon.com/Assets/La Jolla Half Marathon/LJHM course map.pdf It includes an 80ft climb on mile two, 200ft climb from mile 3-5, a brutal 440ft climb from mile 6-7 that destroys your legs, and to top it all off they kill you in the middle of mile 12 with a 150ft climb! Knowing this and how I nearly quit running during my last 5k I decided to run this ½ instead of RACING it. I’d stay in my comfort zone and stopped and walked whenever I felt a little strained. I got strange stares for the people handing out water as I walked up to them stopped and drank :D even took a nice bathroom break right before the big hill! I am extremely happy that I broke 1:30 on such a tough course and with very little effort and helped my mentality towards running for the better.
Qualifier race date: Friday, July 26, 2013, 7PM
Now onto my goal of qualifying for the 2014 Boston Marathon! I had been shooting for 2015 until the recent tragedy which drove me to my new goal. The problem with this is that there are very little Marathons to run in the time left to qualify. I live in Southern California and do not have the income to freely travel the country. I found the marathon I want to get my qualifying time at but there are a few problems with the choice I made. First it is in Massachusetts where the summer humidity is going to be extremely taxing on me for the 3 hours I will be running. I will only be there 3 days prior to the race to get use to these conditions and hope it does not prevent me from completing the marathon. Secondly it is a loop course and I will have to complete 8 3.17 mile loops along with another smaller loop to finish the race. I plan on doing my long runs in this fashion to prepare myself for the dullness of it and to help familiarize myself with this sort of running. The race starts at 7pm which I think will be in my benefit since I will still be on California time.
The race in question: http://www.srr.org/events/annual_events/24hour/index.php
“Scenic, flat, wheel-measured 3.17 mile loop course around Lake Quannapowitt. The course is well marked with minimal traffic. The course is entirely on paved surfaces (sidewalks, paths, and office park access road) except for a 35 yard section of dirt path. The marathon course is USATF certified (MA10007JK). The marathon is a Boston Qualifier”
Now the question is my fellow runners, do you think this is enough time for me to reach my goal? I plan on increase my mileage up 10% each week until the taper. I will solely be doing mileage seeing as though I know I have the speed to run 3:05 or faster it will just be am I physically and mentally strong enough to go the distance!
(This was written quickly and I will probably go back and edit but wanted to post to get peoples thoughts ASAP)
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On May 03 2013 03:20 Bonham wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 14:23 AirbladeOrange wrote:
We should post action shots we have of ourselves. See who's the prettiest and who's the most badass. Wait, don't you have a sweet beard? I feel like this would give ou an unfair advantage in the badassery department.
Hahaha. How do you know I have a beard? It's more scruffy and heavy on the neck hair.
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