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On September 25 2011 23:58 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 11:47 AnxiousHippo wrote:
What about High Intensity Interval Training to increase speed? Is there a standard way of doing HIIT? Like X time for interval, with y recovery; at Z race pace? This would be really helpful to know so I could better respond to all these HIIT/Interval questions.
All I know is generally HIIT includes running twice as long as you rest (X = 2Y). The only pace I know is running as hard as you can for that particular interval so you're forcing your body into maximized VO2Max.
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so i run in the morning about 3-4 times a week, and i'm looking to improve my 2 mile time. last time i ran a timed 2 mile i got 14:10, and i'm looking to improve to 13:00 or below. my real problem is just pushing myself when i run. i don't particularly like running, i've never really been that good at it, and i just get bored as fuck when running and really i'm just looking towards being done with it. can anybody give me an advice as to how to enjoy running more?
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On September 26 2011 07:37 Nitrogen wrote:
i've never really been that good at it, and i just get bored as fuck when running and really i'm just looking towards being done with it. can anybody give me an advice as to how to enjoy running more?
I'll answer this in two parts, one about the motivation/fun, and the other about the goal. First off, if you do run on a treadmill, stop. It just makes the runs even worse.
Second thing to do is consider if there are any places in your area that are particularly scenic or interesting and go run there, definitely more interesting to run up/down a steep, scenic, rocky mountain trail than some flat sidewalk in the middle of town.
Another thing to do is to play around with your paces, doing a run known as a Fartlek. Basically you just pick random targets at random distances (anywhere from say 50m to maybe 1600m) and run to the target at whatever speed seems nice. Then take as much downtime as needed to recover and go again. BY varying the pace and the amount of time/hardness of the faster portions you can make a Fartlek a super easy light workout with some little pace changes to keep things interesting, or you can make it a grueling, race-like simulation.
Finally, the biggest thing you can do, though definitely the most difficult is to work on your mindset. If you go into the run thinking about how miserable and boring its going to be....your going to have a bad time, end of story. Even if you can't tell yourself your going to go out and just have a blast, do yourself a favor and don't think at all about the boredom/tiredness/etc; and try to think about any positive aspects.
I HATED running the first 5 or 6 months when I tried to get a little more active at the end of HS. Like, seriously, though 3-4 miles of my day were like the most god awful, miserable, minutes I spent. Eventually I got tired of disliking running so much and pretty much said "screw this, I'm going to enjoy this". Stopped running on the treadmill, started running outside, and just focused on all the cool things that were happening as a result of my training and on the goals I wanted to achieve. Especially as I got faster running kept getting more and more enjoyable.
On September 26 2011 07:37 Nitrogen wrote:
so i run in the morning about 3-4 times a week, and i'm looking to improve my 2 mile time. last time i ran a timed 2 mile i got 14:10, and i'm looking to improve to 13:00 or below. my real problem is just pushing myself when i run
Okay, good news is 13:00 or below is quite a reasonable goal, especially since your already running low 14s.
The main thing you'll want to do is, quite simply, run more. I don't know your running history but I'd shoot to get to a consistent 6 or 7 (your choice) days per week of running. Just add a day a week to your schedule. So if your doing 4 miles 4 time per week now, next week you do 4 mile 5 times per week. Once your at 6/7 then just tack on 3-5 miles per week. I'd shoot for somewhere around 30-40 mpw, with closer to 40 being alot better.
Once you get there I wouldn't be surprised at all if your already in 13 shape unless you have really been doing a fair bit of training before you ran 14:10. If your not though the next step will be to start adding in some workouts and some variety to the mix. For now though, just get your mileage up to something reasonable as that will yield by far the biggest initial benefits and gain.
With regards to pushing yourself, I'm not sure what your refering to here. Getting out the door? Running at certain paces on your runs? Dealing with pain in races?
If we are talking about race pain/discomfort pretty much the only answer is HTFU. Races hurt, that's just how it is and if you want to run a solid time compared to what your capable of you have to be willing and ready to accept that a hard race isn't going to feel much in the way of pleasant. Not sure there is much I can say to help you deal with that since it pretty much comes down to whether you have the self-motivation to race hard. Races really are a funny thing, they have managed to find a way to getus to make ourselves miserable for some portion of time, cursing why we ever chose to run in the damn thing, only to cross the finish line and say 3 minute later "Let's do another!"
If were talking about the need to push yourself on normal runs, then I have to ask why you even need to push yourself in the first place? If you are having to....your going much, much, MUCH to hard. You should be running no faster than about 9:15 pace per mile on your runs, and even as slow as 10-10:30 pace is fine. Most of your regular runs should be very easy and conversational and you shouldn't be dealing with any pain, hurt, or discomfort.
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On September 26 2011 04:06 dudeman001 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 23:58 L_Master wrote:On September 25 2011 11:47 AnxiousHippo wrote:
What about High Intensity Interval Training to increase speed? Is there a standard way of doing HIIT? Like X time for interval, with y recovery; at Z race pace? This would be really helpful to know so I could better respond to all these HIIT/Interval questions. All I know is generally HIIT includes running twice as long as you rest (X = 2Y). The only pace I know is running as hard as you can for that particular interval so you're forcing your body into maximized VO2Max.
Okay, sounds like a typical VO2 max interval then. Yes, those are generally useful for training, but they are a sharpening/race-specific tool for when your onseason. Doing lots of interval year round will lead to stagnation since you max out your gains from those intervals in 2-3 months and continuing to do them just leads to no gains in fitness and your slow your aerobic growth since you can't run as many miles when your training hard with lots of intervals.
Nothing wrong with VO2 intervals, just don't over do it; and for newer runners be careful easing into it especially without a good base as its much easier to get injured doing hard track workouts than just doing easy, aerobic running.
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On September 26 2011 08:02 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 07:37 Nitrogen wrote:
i've never really been that good at it, and i just get bored as fuck when running and really i'm just looking towards being done with it. can anybody give me an advice as to how to enjoy running more? snip
yeah i think the problem is with my mindset mostly, it's just hard to think "okay this is gonna be fun" rather than "this shit is gonna suck" before i run each time.
it's hard to get time to run more than i do, i'm in the military so the running i do every week is my mandatory morning pt, which usually just consists of running around a track. i don't really have a lot of free time and i don't usually spend it on running. i like the fartlek idea though, what we do a lot is 60-120s, where you sprint for 60 seconds then walk for 120. it's a good workout. thanks for the advice though, i'll try to work on my mindset.
also does anyone know anything about running shoes? i'm looking for more minimalist shoes (not the toe ones though, haha). i currently have nike free 7.0s and am looking for something more minimalist. i really don't know shit about these shoes, so if anyone has any advice or recommendations it would be appreciated.
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On September 26 2011 08:29 Nitrogen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 08:02 L_Master wrote:On September 26 2011 07:37 Nitrogen wrote:
i've never really been that good at it, and i just get bored as fuck when running and really i'm just looking towards being done with it. can anybody give me an advice as to how to enjoy running more? snip yeah i think the problem is with my mindset mostly, it's just hard to think "okay this is gonna be fun" rather than "this shit is gonna suck" before i run each time. it's hard to get time to run more than i do, i'm in the military so the running i do every week is my mandatory morning pt, which usually just consists of running around a track. i don't really have a lot of free time and i don't usually spend it on running. i like the fartlek idea though, what we do a lot is 60-120s, where you sprint for 60 seconds then walk for 120. it's a good workout. thanks for the advice though, i'll try to work on my mindset. also does anyone know anything about running shoes? i'm looking for more minimalist shoes (not the toe ones though, haha). i currently have nike free 7.0s and am looking for something more minimalist. i really don't know shit about these shoes, so if anyone has any advice or recommendations it would be appreciated.
Check these out.
http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/saucony-hattori-running-shoe-men/3171122?cm_cat=datafeed&cm_ite=saucony_'hattori'_running_shoe_(men):353577&cm_pla=shoes:men:athletic&cm_ven=Froogle&mr:referralID=NA&mr:trackingCode=8EE65579-ED99-E011-8116-001517B1882A
What you have against the toe shoes? Most people who try them love them.
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On September 26 2011 13:54 AirbladeOrange wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 08:29 Nitrogen wrote:On September 26 2011 08:02 L_Master wrote:On September 26 2011 07:37 Nitrogen wrote:
i've never really been that good at it, and i just get bored as fuck when running and really i'm just looking towards being done with it. can anybody give me an advice as to how to enjoy running more? snip yeah i think the problem is with my mindset mostly, it's just hard to think "okay this is gonna be fun" rather than "this shit is gonna suck" before i run each time. it's hard to get time to run more than i do, i'm in the military so the running i do every week is my mandatory morning pt, which usually just consists of running around a track. i don't really have a lot of free time and i don't usually spend it on running. i like the fartlek idea though, what we do a lot is 60-120s, where you sprint for 60 seconds then walk for 120. it's a good workout. thanks for the advice though, i'll try to work on my mindset. also does anyone know anything about running shoes? i'm looking for more minimalist shoes (not the toe ones though, haha). i currently have nike free 7.0s and am looking for something more minimalist. i really don't know shit about these shoes, so if anyone has any advice or recommendations it would be appreciated. Check these out. http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/saucony-hattori-running-shoe-men/3171122?cm_cat=datafeed&cm_ite=saucony_'hattori'_running_shoe_(men):353577&cm_pla=shoes:men:athletic&cm_ven=Froogle&mr:referralID=NA&mr:trackingCode=8EE65579-ED99-E011-8116-001517B1882AWhat you have against the toe shoes? Most people who try them love them.
nothing, i'm sure i would love them. except they aren't in regulation for the army pt uniform, so i'm outta luck.
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I have a quick question for all you experienced people. (I don't know miles so I'll stick to the metric system)
I have been doing constant running the last 2 years. Sometimes with breaks over a month or so, but pretty much constant. When I started, I could not run 500m without having to stop and breathe. However, after a couple of months of hard work, I could run about 5km. A few months later, I could do around 7-8km. Since then, I have always stayed at 7-8km and REALLY FUCKING CAN'T get past it. I have really pushed myself but I really can't run further. The speed I'm running at is decent with about 40min for 7-8km, but even if I slow down, I can't run further.
Is this a mental thing? Any ideas how to get past it? Also, I have been a smoker (about 5/day) ever since I started running. Surely this affects, but is that what keeps me from getting better?
Thx
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On September 28 2011 00:35 borny wrote:
I have a quick question for all you experienced people. (I don't know miles so I'll stick to the metric system)
I have been doing constant running the last 2 years. Sometimes with breaks over a month or so, but pretty much constant. When I started, I could not run 500m without having to stop and breathe. However, after a couple of months of hard work, I could run about 5km. A few months later, I could do around 7-8km. Since then, I have always stayed at 7-8km and REALLY FUCKING CAN'T get past it. I have really pushed myself but I really can't run further. The speed I'm running at is decent with about 40min for 7-8km, but even if I slow down, I can't run further.
Is this a mental thing? Any ideas how to get past it? Also, I have been a smoker (about 5/day) ever since I started running. Surely this affects, but is that what keeps me from getting better?
Thx
Obviously the smoking probably makes a big difference. Otherwise you probably just need to increase your weekly mileage. Running more miles per week at an easy/moderate pace is better than running fewer miles at a difficult pace. But if you increase your mileage you need to spread it out over several days (not too little or too much in one day) and increase very gradually.
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Further information would be really nice to give the best advices like your age, weight, height. Maybe your nutrition is not right, maybe you drink too little and your body stops because of a lack of resources, maybe you run at the wrong times ( dont run right after eating, food needs 3 hours to be ready as 'fuel' ) or maybe you just need to run more. If you run once a month or every 2 weeks improvement is very little. Sure, its better than nothing and your time isnt the worst but to improve you need to run i would say 1 or 2 times a week.
Nevertheless i think its a mental problem. Run an unknown course without counting time or kilometres, listen to music or the best possibility: run with a friend, have a nice chat during the trip and youll see how the miles pass by.
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I am going to start running on a Monday, Wednesday and a Friday, and then join the local running club. I am quite fast, I just need to get stamina and I can compete.
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When I started, I could not run 500m without having to stop and breathe.
You were running too hard. If you ran at 1 km per hour you wouldn't need to stop to breathe. That said NICE job with the improvement!
I have really pushed myself but I really can't run further. The speed I'm running at is decent with about 40min for 7-8km, but even if I slow down, I can't run further.
What, exactly, stops you from running further? Until I know that I have no idea what the problem is. It could be lungs burning, legs getting heavy from lactic acid, general fatigue, injury pain, etc. A little more information would be fabulous.
Also, you say you have tried to slower, but have you tried it at something like 55 min for the 8k.
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i have a serious question and i read through some of the pages and i didnt see it asked sorry i am wrong
when i go running for rowing (which is usually alot 6-8 miles im not sure the kilometer conversion) my left leg goes numb im not talking tingly im talking running with a club foot numb ahha this is usually after 3 or 4 miles and i can run with it before it becomes completely numb for another mile
now i would really like to know if i should be seriously concerned b/c its a back problem or is it just a problem in my technique, i do enjoy running but im afraid to run very far from my house in fear of this happening and me not being able to get back
edit: i am in very good shape and do competitive mountain biking so its not an aerobic problem i dont think and if it wasnt for this problem i could run for a very long distance im sure of it
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On September 28 2011 04:50 zickoray wrote:
i have a serious question and i read through some of the pages and i didnt see it asked sorry i am wrong
when i go running for rowing (which is usually alot 6-8 miles im not sure the kilometer conversion) my left leg goes numb im not talking tingly im talking running with a club foot numb ahha this is usually after 3 or 4 miles and i can run with it before it becomes completely numb for another mile
now i would really like to know if i should be seriously concerned b/c its a back problem or is it just a problem in my technique, i do enjoy running but im afraid to run very far from my house in fear of this happening and me not being able to get back
edit: i am in very good shape and do competitive mountain biking so its not an aerobic problem i dont think and if it wasnt for this problem i could run for a very long distance im sure of it
Sometimes One or both of my feet fall asleep when I run but it hasn't happened to me in a long time. I have read up on it as much as I can and talked to coaches and doctors but nobody has given me a good answer as to why it happens.
Compartment syndrome can make your lower legs fall asleep but if it's your whole leg it could be a back problem or a pinched nerve. I guess make sure your shoes, shoelaces, and socks are all loose enough (even around the toes). If you still have the problem definitely seek medical attention.
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On September 28 2011 09:31 AirbladeOrange wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 04:50 zickoray wrote:
i have a serious question and i read through some of the pages and i didnt see it asked sorry i am wrong
when i go running for rowing (which is usually alot 6-8 miles im not sure the kilometer conversion) my left leg goes numb im not talking tingly im talking running with a club foot numb ahha this is usually after 3 or 4 miles and i can run with it before it becomes completely numb for another mile
now i would really like to know if i should be seriously concerned b/c its a back problem or is it just a problem in my technique, i do enjoy running but im afraid to run very far from my house in fear of this happening and me not being able to get back
edit: i am in very good shape and do competitive mountain biking so its not an aerobic problem i dont think and if it wasnt for this problem i could run for a very long distance im sure of it Sometimes One or both of my feet fall asleep when I run but it hasn't happened to me in a long time. I have read up on it as much as I can and talked to coaches and doctors but nobody has given me a good answer as to why it happens. Compartment syndrome can make your lower legs fall asleep but if it's your whole leg it could be a back problem or a pinched nerve. I guess make sure your shoes, shoelaces, and socks are all loose enough (even around the toes). If you still have the problem definitely seek medical attention.
yea i was thinking it was a pinched nerve aswell but i dont remember doing anything to get on
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Further information would be really nice to give the best advices like your age, weight, height. Maybe your nutrition is not right, maybe you drink too little and your body stops because of a lack of resources, maybe you run at the wrong times ( dont run right after eating, food needs 3 hours to be ready as 'fuel' ) or maybe you just need to run more. If you run once a month or every 2 weeks improvement is very little. Sure, its better than nothing and your time isnt the worst but to improve you need to run i would say 1 or 2 times a week.
Nevertheless i think its a mental problem. Run an unknown course without counting time or kilometres, listen to music or the best possibility: run with a friend, have a nice chat during the trip and youll see how the miles pass by.
Ok thx. I'm 21 years old, 79-80kg and 186cm tall.
What, exactly, stops you from running further? Until I know that I have no idea what the problem is. It could be lungs burning, legs getting heavy from lactic acid, general fatigue, injury pain, etc. A little more information would be fabulous.
Well, after a certain distance, my legs just feels extremely tired. That is the thing, I can run 8km pretty fast, and my breathing is generally fine. It is always my legs that feels super heavy.
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I've hit a wall in my training over the past few months. I have to run two miles in 17 minutes, my times have been the 16:40-17:50 range (depending on when I do it and the heat) and while I can get the minimum on test day, I would really like to get it around 16 minutes. I've been doing alot of longer runs of 4-5 miles once a week and trying to run at least 2-4 miles everyday, but now I realize I need to tone it down and have rest days. What is most disturbing is my lack of progress over the past few months and the way I end my runs. I'm usually gasping for air, horrible gag reflex, dry coughing, and described by my platoon as a "dying fish on land" as I cross the finish line.
I have been checked by the doctor and have mild asthma but overall healthy. What would be a good plan to get on to improve my time? I notice the OP suggest I run at a 11 minute pace for my "race time" of 16 mins, how long and how often?
Sorry for the rambling, but I've becoming more and more frustrated and am afraid I've reached my potential in terms of running.
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First of all, those paces are based on current fitness, not goal fitness. So right now you can run 16:40, which is equivalent to about 7:45 for an all out mile. So something like 10:30-11:00 min pace per mile would be pretty reasonable for general runs.
How often and how much? Well it sounds like your doing about 15-20 mpw right now, so you have a good start. I'd say aim for something like this for a weekly mileage progression:
15
20
20
25
30
30
15
35
40
40
40
You can structure the weeks however you like, but I would keep the running to no less than 6 days a week and the "long run" as no more than 20% of your weekly mileage. So if your doing a 30 mile week, your long run would be at max 6 miles. As far as improvement I'd do nothing but easy runs for now, and maybe once a week if you want mix it up with a fartlek or cruise interval run (1M @ 9:00 pace, 1:00 easy jogging recovery, repeat 2x)
It should be noted your not even CLOSE to your limit of running. It takes 6-8 at a MINIMUM of running to get anywhere near maxing out your aerobic capacity, and that's for people putting in serious mileage (90-140 mpw).
Now as far as this ending runs thing, its one of two things:
1) your running WAY to hard
2)allergy/medical problem
I've had dry coughing after a race level effort before lasting for maybe 5-15 minutes but that's only occurred (consistently though) if I race when I haven't been running for awhile. The gag reflex I have no idea about.
As far as gasping for air if these are races were talking about you damn well should be gasping for air once your across the finish line. Races straight up hurt, I mean halfway through a 2 mile race you should be thinking damn this hurts I have to for an ENTIRE mile more. 6 laps in it pretty much feels like your coming to meet your maker: lungs burning, legs getting heavy, body and mind screaming at you to stop, etc. Last lap you pick it up and final 200m you throw everything you have into it.
If your gasping for air on normal runs, its either much, much too fast OR a medical/allergy problem.
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On September 30 2011 08:12 stork4ever wrote:
I've hit a wall in my training over the past few months. I have to run two miles in 17 minutes, my times have been the 16:40-17:50 range (depending on when I do it and the heat) and while I can get the minimum on test day, I would really like to get it around 16 minutes. I've been doing alot of longer runs of 4-5 miles once a week and trying to run at least 2-4 miles everyday, but now I realize I need to tone it down and have rest days. What is most disturbing is my lack of progress over the past few months and the way I end my runs. I'm usually gasping for air, horrible gag reflex, dry coughing, and described by my platoon as a "dying fish on land" as I cross the finish line.
I have been checked by the doctor and have mild asthma but overall healthy. What would be a good plan to get on to improve my time? I notice the OP suggest I run at a 11 minute pace for my "race time" of 16 mins, how long and how often?
Sorry for the rambling, but I've becoming more and more frustrated and am afraid I've reached my potential in terms of running.
How long until your test or when you want to run 16:00 minutes?
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L_Master: Thanks for the advice, I will start at the 20 mile tomorrow! 6 days a week is going to time consuming but no pain no gain!!
AirbladeOrange: I would like to hit the 16 min mark in a month though I've been hovering around my current time and I know progress cannot be rushed, so I think 2-2.5 months of hard training? Realistic?
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EPT
