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I'm going to break apart some of what you say and explain my thoughts behind it
To be able to run a 35min/10km, you need to have the speed for an 3min/km if not faster.
This is somewhat correct, although it can vary from person to person. Extreme aerobic monsters, and sometimes older adults could run 35 flat off of 3:10 speed. In fact I know at least one guy that runs generally near or just under 35 who at best can run 1500m in 4:45.
What we will need to clarify is the definition of speed. Speed is best though of in terms of 400 time (100/200 time also works, but really is hard to do accurately and the poor starting ability of runners can throw this off). That is speed: your top end velocity, how fast you can SPRINT. When we talk about distances greater then 400m, then really we are talking about fitness.
My question I would ask of you is right now can you run 400m in 65 seconds or less? If the answer is yes, then you have enough speed to run 3:00 for 1k. If your long term goal is 35 min 10k, and you don't have 65s speed...then you'll most likely have to get faster as some point.
If you can run under 65s for 400m, but not 3 min for 1k...then you have a fitness issue, not a speed one.
WIth these 200m speed workout at around this pace, I want to gain that speed.
Here is the fatal flaw in your thinking. These 200m workouts you are talking about have NOTHING to do with "speed". They will do absolutely NOTHING to improve your speed. I don't care how many of these you do, but you are not going to see your 100m or 400m race times drop from doing these.
My hope is to reach a hole new level of running and furthermore, most people tell you, that you have to work on your speed while you are young. Since I am only 18yo, I just want to get the speed basis and maintain it over a longer distance as I train more and more.
You don't have to work on speed while you are young, you have to work on it always. You just don't work on it with 200m repeats at 35s. Speed is worked on with things like flying 30s/60s, 6-10s uphill sprints, sled pulls, gym work, etc. 200s have a place in speed training too, but those 200s are generally run near 400m speed, and with long recoveries; they work efficiency and relaxation at sprint intensity.
I am not sure, how I could improve it, since I am running mostly with friends, some of them who are much faster than I am. I really want to improve my running performance now during the winter, since running is key in triathlon and decides in almost all sprint races. Would you recommend me to set more of a focus on each run? Like basically, the traditional runners plan with a long run, a track session, a tempo run and some easy runs? Would it help a lot?
I fear mostly the long runs, since I am struggling with shin splints and I can not see too many benefits from it because I already have a lot of volume in my week and my general fitness level should be fine.
I'll be honest, I don't know a thing about how running training is integrated with triathlon training. I can't help there. Maybe Airblade knows what works, as I think he did some triathlon for a while.
As far as running goes, the general structure is derived like this:
Generally you have 2 goal "peaks" per year. For a typical HS runner this is fall XC and spring track state champs. For a typical college students it NCAA XC and NCAA track in whatever their events are. Within each of those, you are generally looking to be at absolute peak for one or two races (i.e. your state championships or w/e).
Most runners will from the end of one season, till about 3-4 months from the next goal race, do primarily base work. This is comprised of generally higher mileage, emphasis on volume/tempo work/other strength building runs, as well as work on pure speed. Aerobic intervals shouldn't be neglected, but are not the main focus during base phase. Then as it comes closer to competition time (3-4 months out) the training priority shifts, you start going to faster aerobic stuff and your main track workouts, and as you draw very near competition time (month or so) some anaerobic work is added to bring the athlete to peak sharpness.
As an example in the track phase the NOP guys do one short interval workout (generally 400-800s), and one longer interval workout (1k or more, sometimes this is a tempo), and a long run. Obviously that can change, but that is the general structure of a typical week. What exactly the workouts are for each week changes depending on where you are. 3 months out I very much doubt Mo is running 400s at mile pace with 45s rest, but it is easy to envision him doing some 800s at 3k pace with decent recovery.
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On the topic of speed, I'm looking to increase mine... Or distance. Basically, I can run ~6:25 per mile, for about a mile. I'd like to be able to run this pace for ~3 miles (My goal is 4min/km for 5km) Currently, I can run the distance, 3.125 mile in about 27 minutes... I'd like to bring the 2 together, pace (6:24 min/mile) and distance (3.125 miles), so that I can run that distance in 20 minutes. How do I best go about increasing my speed by that much?
I've just started running again after a break of about a month, and I'm back at about where I was previously after 2 weeks, although I now have much more time to run, I can do 6-7 days a week, and potentially several smaller sessions each day. Looking to run to lose some weight, increase my fitness, and achieve this goal, ideally all within 7 weeks. Possible?
On December 04 2013 07:44 L_Master wrote:
You don't have to work on speed while you are young, you have to work on it always. You just don't work on it with 200m repeats at 35s. Speed is worked on with things like flying 30s/60s, 6-10s uphill sprints, sled pulls, gym work, etc. 200s have a place in speed training too, but those 200s are generally run near 400m speed, and with long recoveries; they work efficiency and relaxation at sprint intensity.
Maybe you could elaborate on this, I don't know what flying is, or what gym work would be apprioriate, and ideally I'd like to avoid the gym for now.
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Basically, I can run ~6:25 per mile, for about a mile. I'd like to be able to run this pace for ~3 miles (My goal is 4min/km for 5km) Currently, I can run the distance, 3.125 mile in about 27 minutes... I'd like to bring the 2 together, pace (6:24 min/mile) and distance (3.125 miles), so that I can run that distance in 20 minutes. How do I best go about increasing my speed by that much?
It might seem a little bit semantic, but this isn't about increasing speed. It's about getting fitter/faster. It's important to keep these two separate as speed is raw sprint speed, but fitness is running faster over distance. What you do for speed is much different than what you do for fitness.
Now on the the question. Looks like you have a good, fairly ambitious goal in mind.
First thing I notice on reading is that either your endurance is awful, your pacing in 5k is really bad, or a combination of the two. A guy running a mile in 6:25 should be looking at low 22 for a 5k. To be perfectly honest, running 5k in 27 min should be a downright easy run, the kind where you almost feel refreshed at the end rather than tired.
I'll warn you that I don't see it happening in 7 weeks, even if you had 15 pounds to drop in that time and did so; but you'd have an outside shot if you respond fast to training and have been generally sedentary up to this point.
Alright so moving on the the meat and bones. First, and primary thing for you right now is getting a solid mileage base to support harder workouts. Without knowing prior running history I would say start at 3-4 times per week doing 5-6km runs. Add a day each week or two until you are running 6 or 7 times a week. These runs should be at an EASY pace. Again, the kind of pace where you can talk easily without gasping for breath, and feel like you would have no problem running for two or three hours at that pace. Given your huge variety between mile and 5k pace, these runs should be in a pace range of 5:30-6:15 min/km. You don't go by pace though, you go by EFFORT. The pace guidelines just give you an idea of what easy should feel like in case you have no clue about what easy means.
You'll see some massive improvements in fitness in your first few months just from doing lots of running at that general aerobic pace. All distance from 800m up are primarily aerobic, and these general easy runs are the best way to improve the aerobic abilities of the body (increased mitochondrial density, increased lung elasticity, more efficient running economy, increased stroke volume, increase in number of capillary beds, etc.)
Once you get a month or two of 40-50 km/week we can start to look at adding in some more intense workouts. Doing so sooner is poor idea. You would lack the endurance to perform well and get the benefits from the hard workouts, and your body would not be prepared for the stress either in a physical sense (i.e. muscles/tendons/ligaments wouldn't have undergone adaptive change for running)
Maybe you could elaborate on this, I don't know what flying is, or what gym work would be apprioriate, and ideally I'd like to avoid the gym for now.
Flying is a running start. So for a flying 30 you might take a 15m running lead in, then hit the gas and full sprint for 30m, then coast it out. Gym work for speed would be generally heavy weights (3-4 rep range) doing things like squat, deadlift, bench, Olympic lifts, and plyometric and agility drills. Basically the same things any sprinter would be doing.
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Damn, last few days have been shitty. Ran a couple times in TX over thanksgiving down at sea level since there was no other exercise alternative, and that is always fun. Back here though the past few days have sucked though, the same effort that normally does like 225 watts according to the bike has been down to like 180, and stairmaster @ 80 has felt like the normal 95. Running terms that is sorta like normally running at 8:00 pace but suddenly finding 9:00 pace the same difficulty.
Tried to do 4-5x1k today...but even the first one at under pace (6:35, goal was 6:25) didnt feel good, and then I didn't really feel like I could recover.
I've sorta felt like maybe I had a slight cold or something...hoping that is all it is.
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Cheers for the advice! I'll try to post back with my progress 
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Just finished the Week 1 of the Couch-to-5k program:
Day 1, 2013/11/30
Total Distance: 3.03 km
Total Time: 30 min
Walk Distance: 1.89 km Avg. Pace: 11:36
Run Distance: 1.14 km Avg. Pace: 07:00
Day 2, 2013/12/03
Total Distance: 3.28 km
Total Time: 30 min
Walk Distance: 2.23 km Avg. Pace: 09:51
Run Distance: 1.05 km Avg. Pace: 07:38
Day 3, 2013/12/06
Total Distance: 3.41 km
Total Time: 30 min
Walk Distance: 2.27 km Avg. Pace: 09:42
Run Distance: 1.14 km Avg. Pace: 07:02
I feel like I can do a little more jogging and less walking, but I will hold myself and follow the program to the letter
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Okay yea must have just been under the weather or something, as today exceeded all expectations.
5x1k w/2 min jog recovery in (4:00, 3:53, 3:55, 3:53, 3:39).
Not bad for 5-10 mpw. Weight plays a huge role though, 4 weeks ago at 165 was struggling to 6x800 @ 6:30 pace, now at high 150s just averaged 6:15 pace for k's. Really is going to be interesting to see if I can beat my PR off 10 mpw just be getting to optimum weight.
On December 07 2013 07:19 fabiano wrote:Just finished the Week 1 of the Couch-to-5k program: Day 1, 2013/11/30Total Distance: 3.03 km Total Time: 30 min Walk Distance: 1.89 km Avg. Pace: 11:36 Run Distance: 1.14 km Avg. Pace: 07:00 Day 2, 2013/12/03Total Distance: 3.28 km Total Time: 30 min Walk Distance: 2.23 km Avg. Pace: 09:51 Run Distance: 1.05 km Avg. Pace: 07:38 Day 3, 2013/12/06Total Distance: 3.41 km Total Time: 30 min Walk Distance: 2.27 km Avg. Pace: 09:42 Run Distance: 1.14 km Avg. Pace: 07:02 I feel like I can do a little more jogging and less walking, but I will hold myself and follow the program to the letter
Nice work man! If you feel up to it their is nothing wrong with progressing faster than the program allows. It really is designed for people who have been sedentary for a long time. I'd bet the majority of HS/college kids could just jump in to 2-3 miles of running a few times a week no problem. Just make sure the run portions are at a nice, easy pace.
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Please remember to give as much information about training background, injuries, what motivates you, long-term goals, around-the-corner goals, how "boring"/easy work-out you're willing to do, how much time you're willing to spend and what not as you can. Otherwise, it's really difficult to provide any meaningful feedback.
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On December 07 2013 12:24 TLWINDRUNNER wrote:
Please remember to give as much information about training background, injuries, what motivates you, long-term goals, around-the-corner goals, how "boring"/easy work-out you're willing to do, how much time you're willing to spend and what not as you can. Otherwise, it's really difficult to provide any meaningful feedback.
Nice haha! At first I was wondering if I got drunk and made an alt just to post this.
Definitely true though. Pretty big difference between "I want to run 6:00 mile", and "I want to break 6 in the mile in the next six months. I'm currently training 4x per week doing about 4 miles @ 9:00 pace. I'm willing to do as much work as you guys think it takes to break those goal."
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Hey,
Yesterday I tried to change the way I run. I'm a 'heel striker' runner. That's how I learned to run because someone told me to do it like that in the past and I never gave it too much thought. It made sense to land on the heel and try to 'smooth' the stride by making a heel -> midfoot -> toes landing (I don't know how to put that in english but I guess you know what I'm talking about). Then recently as I started to like running more and more I looked on youtube videos on how to improve running technique. To my surprise basically all the videos said that heel striking is bad and that I should be landing on the midfoot.
I tried to do that, but today I'm feeling a lot of DOMS on my calves. I just checked again one of the youtube videos I watched (/watch?v=ikUkGntOOUE @ 0:50) and I suppose I was landing more on my forefoot than midfoot (which I didn't notice at the time) because it says landing on forefoot causes excessive strain on the calves. Should I expect this uncomfortable pain on my calves even if I were actually landing on my midfoot?
Are there any tips on what I should do to make that transition from landing on the heel to midfoot? I've been running an average 24km/week (8km day, 3x a week) and would hate to injure myself during the transition.
Also, one of the things that made me want to improve running technique is that both my knees are inflamed. I've been feeling pain on both knees. I have a history with knee pain even when I'm not running, but they were kinda rare and it had been a while since I had them. It started to bother me around 20 days ago and it got progressively worse to the point it's uncomfortable now. Going to get them checked sometime next week.
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On December 08 2013 22:58 Raidern wrote:
Hey,
Yesterday I tried to change the way I run. I'm a 'heel striker' runner. That's how I learned to run because someone told me to do it like that in the past and I never gave it too much thought. It made sense to land on the heel and try to 'smooth' the stride by making a heel -> midfoot -> toes landing (I don't know how to put that in english but I guess you know what I'm talking about). Then recently as I started to like running more and more I looked on youtube videos on how to improve running technique. To my surprise basically all the videos said that heel striking is bad and that I should be landing on the midfoot.
I tried to do that, but today I'm feeling a lot of DOMS on my calves. I just checked again one of the youtube videos I watched (/watch?v=ikUkGntOOUE @ 0:50) and I suppose I was landing more on my forefoot than midfoot (which I didn't notice at the time) because it says landing on forefoot causes excessive strain on the calves. Should I expect this uncomfortable pain on my calves even if I were actually landing on my midfoot?
Are there any tips on what I should do to make that transition from landing on the heel to midfoot? I've been running an average 24km/week (8km day, 3x a week) and would hate to injure myself during the transition.
Also, one of the things that made me want to improve running technique is that both my knees are inflamed. I've been feeling pain on both knees. I have a history with knee pain even when I'm not running, but they were kinda rare and it had been a while since I had them. It started to bother me around 20 days ago and it got progressively worse to the point it's uncomfortable now. Going to get them checked sometime next week.
It can be tricky and a little risky injury-wise to change the running form you're accustomed to. So proceed with a bit of caution. There are plenty of heel strikers who are very fast runners and not getting injured doing so. That being said, I believe that a midfoot foot strike is optimal to achieve the most efficient running performance for an individual.
Try running a bit barefoot on a suitable surface and note how your foot is striking the ground and what it feels like. You could also check out running shoes with a lesser heel to toe drop. Trainers with a raised heel make it a little more difficult to not heel strike.
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I tried to do that, but today I'm feeling a lot of DOMS on my calves
Yep, that is going to happen. The achilles is much more active in a more forefoot style of running.
Should I expect this uncomfortable pain on my calves even if I were actually landing on my midfoot?
Probably a little until you adapt to it. If it hurts during the run...that ain't go. A little sore after is acceptable though.
Are there any tips on what I should do to make that transition from landing on the heel to midfoot? I've been running an average 24km/week (8km day, 3x a week) and would hate to injure myself during the transition.
Drastic change is not good. I'd start by incorporating it via strides and drills (both barefeet on grass or shod), and focusing on it for parts of runs. Like if you are doing a 30 min run you might focus on it for 2 minutes at 5 different points. Over time the change will happen.
I would be less concerned with actual what part of the foot is hitting the ground and more concerned with the location of the strike. Your weight should come down centered on your foot, if full weight is coming down with the foot in front of the body that isn't so good. If you strike nicely under your COG whether you are footfoot, mid or heel really doesn't make a difference.
One more thing, be careful watching form videos on youtube. 95% of them are complete bullshit talking out of their ass. Especially stuff like POSE, stuff from somax, etc. They show all this stuff that sounds good but is either just false, or distorted. For instance in that pose video they show a guy heelstriking, then show him with fixed form. In the "fixed" state...he is running WAY faster. One thing that happens is the faster you run the less you heelstrike, foot landing is very much a by product of speed, which is why you won't EVER see a sprinter with any sort of noticeable heelstrike.
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Another nice workout today.
4x(400, 300, 200) w/60s jog between reps, 3:00 jog between sets. Times of (86, 62, 35) (85, 61, 34) (84, 61, 33)(83, 59, 30)
Mostly just a workout to get the legs moving before racing Saturday, though it got a little more challenging than expected towards the end, as the 3:00 recoveries were not quite enough for complete recoveries. Roughly speaking paces were (mile, 1k, 800)
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United States24799 Posts
It snowed today. No run for me! Tomorrow I have a meeting with the FBI so no run for me! Yesterday it rained so no run for me! WTF.
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On December 11 2013 14:42 micronesia wrote:
It snowed today. No run for me! Tomorrow I have a meeting with the FBI so no run for me! Yesterday it rained so no run for me! WTF.
It was -10 for about 4 days here. Thank god for ellipticals and stationary bikes.
As for your FBI meeting, just run in circles at the meeting instead of sitting.
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On December 11 2013 14:40 L_Master wrote:
Another nice workout today.
4x(400, 300, 200) w/60s jog between reps, 3:00 jog between sets. Times of (86, 62, 35) (85, 61, 34) (84, 61, 33)(83, 59, 30)
Mostly just a workout to get the legs moving before racing Saturday, though it got a little more challenging than expected towards the end, as the 3:00 recoveries were not quite enough for complete recoveries. Roughly speaking paces were (mile, 1k, 800)
Will you try to beat your PR or is it just a test race?
@micronesia: Excuses. Get your ass out there!
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On December 12 2013 01:58 Don_Julio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 14:40 L_Master wrote:
Another nice workout today.
4x(400, 300, 200) w/60s jog between reps, 3:00 jog between sets. Times of (86, 62, 35) (85, 61, 34) (84, 61, 33)(83, 59, 30)
Mostly just a workout to get the legs moving before racing Saturday, though it got a little more challenging than expected towards the end, as the 3:00 recoveries were not quite enough for complete recoveries. Roughly speaking paces were (mile, 1k, 800) Will you try to beat your PR or is it just a test race? @micronesia: Excuses. Get your ass out there!
Looooooong way from PR shape. Sub 20 would be great right now.
Since I can only run 5-10 miles a week, the only real chance I have at beating my 17:xx is getting really light and truly racing fit. Right now I'm still 15 pounds heavier than when I ran sub 18. Weight is coming off though, down almost 10 lbs in last 6 weeks 
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United States24799 Posts
Sorry special agent John Smith, but my internet acquaintance advised me to go for a run today.
Also no I won't run in a near-freezing rain lol..... and especially now directly after a snowfall.
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hi, im just posting here since i think its the most relevant thread for my query.
Almost every time i engage in any activity that requires running (jogging, soccer, basketball etc), my left foot's inner arch hurts so much when my right doesnt. I really dont know what's causing this. is it on the way i run?
![[image loading]](http://www.yogaartandscience.com/pblog/files/page1_blog_entry78_1.png)
for reference
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On December 13 2013 14:05 icystorage wrote:hi, im just posting here since i think its the most relevant thread for my query. Almost every time i engage in any activity that requires running (jogging, soccer, basketball etc), my left foot's inner arch hurts so much when my right doesnt. I really dont know what's causing this. is it on the way i run? for reference
It's probably some sort of mobility/stability issue in your foot. You gotta go see someone who knows their stuff and have them analyze the movement pattern of your foot.
You can try getting different footwear and/or some good inserts but it sounds like you have a deeper issue that can't just be fixed by buying something.
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EPT
