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On November 29 2013 14:45 micronesia wrote:
L_Master I'm sorry to hear you are still having trouble. Regarding something you said, namely that you are 25+ pounds above ideal weight, I'm curious how you determine what your ideal weight for running is. Personally I doubt I will ever be at my 'ideal running weight' but I ask this mostly out of curiosity.
If's difficult to know exactly, and the answer is basically trial and error. When you reach a point where race times don't improve from continuing to lose weight in a healthy manner, or when you reach a point where you can't train as effectively...the sweet spot is just above there. For some runners, there optimal race weight is slightly lower than the weight they would do the majority of their training at.
In my case, I got down to about 148 and was still noticing good improvement in times as I dropped weight, and wasn't really seeing ab definition yet...so another 8 pounds is a rough guesstimate. A pretty easy way to tell is ask yourself "do I have defined abs? If no, then you have more weight to lose. Once you start getting good, visible abs then you are honing in on race weight.
*To me though, I think as you get close to race weight (within say...10 pounds) trying to lose weight aggressively is a bit of a risky way of getting there. It seems better if you can to just eat very healthy, and let the body "adjust" into that proper weight; namely because aggressive dieting as you get near that point can cause problems with nutrient and energy deprivation...especially if you aren't eating well
*that part is my personal opinion; not really based on any scientific/or even classical coaching wisdom
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United States24700 Posts
Ah ok, thanks for the explanation L_Master.
I am ramping my running back up... I jogged at 5.6 mph for 27 minutes. After 27 minutes I slowed down to 4.5 mph (cool down speed, which transitions me into walking). A few seconds after I dropped my speed from 5.6 to 4.5 I got a cramp in my stomach (I didn't stop). It went away within the first minute, and I was able to walk the remainder of my cooldown. Why would my stomach be fine until I slow down, then start to hurt? Was it just coincidental timing?
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On November 23 2013 13:54 L_Master wrote:
Haha it isn't as bad as this one guy that trolled letsrun and runningahead. He would come on and talk about how people should have no arm swing when they run, and that his research was based on ostrich movement and efficiency. Guy really believes what he was talking about too. I think he also claimed that oxygen consumption was irrelevant for running...something about if you consume more oxygen you are also using more energy and thus get hotter and have to work harder to cool.
I just started an effort to run and leave the sedentary life, and on this 2 km track that I walk/run every weekend there is a guy who runs around 5 laps just like that, hands near the thigh with no swing, looks weird.
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On November 30 2013 08:10 fabiano wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2013 13:54 L_Master wrote:
Haha it isn't as bad as this one guy that trolled letsrun and runningahead. He would come on and talk about how people should have no arm swing when they run, and that his research was based on ostrich movement and efficiency. Guy really believes what he was talking about too. I think he also claimed that oxygen consumption was irrelevant for running...something about if you consume more oxygen you are also using more energy and thus get hotter and have to work harder to cool. I just started an effort to run and leave the sedentary life, and on this 2 km track that I walk/run every weekend there is a guy who runs around 5 laps just like that, hands near the thigh with no swing, looks weird.
Yea, that gets a little strange. Never seen an elite with little or no arm swing, but low arm carriage works for some people. Ryan Hall, one of the USes better marathoners has an extremely low arm carriage: Ryan Hall
I just started an effort to run and leave the sedentary life
Awesome!
If you ever got questions....we can help!
A few seconds after I dropped my speed from 5.6 to 4.5 I got a cramp in my stomach (I didn't stop). It went away within the first minute, and I was able to walk the remainder of my cooldown. Why would my stomach be fine until I slow down, then start to hurt? Was it just coincidental timing?
If it's a side stitch then those tend to come more often with hard efforts, but can occur random. Stomach cramps, at least for me, are generally a GI issue. It's just a matter of food disagree with me and running and can come on any time during a run, though it is more common for me later into a longer run.
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are Track And Field (spiked) running shoes suitable for roads and pavement? or should i get a design with no spikes? my current route is like 90% roads/pavement/stoney paths and 10% grassy fields...
might finally buy some shoes today. been using the £12 super flat sailor shoes, wearing multiple socks for much needed padding.
its tough to choose between 'normal' thickness and 'thin' style, tho wearing 2x socks does help
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On December 02 2013 16:01 FFGenerations wrote:
are Track And Field (spiked) running shoes suitable for roads and pavement? or should i get a design with no spikes? my current route is like 90% roads/pavement/stoney paths and 10% grassy fields...
might finally buy some shoes today. been using the £12 super flat sailor shoes, wearing multiple socks for much needed padding.
its tough to choose between 'normal' thickness and 'thin' style, tho wearing 2x socks does help
As a first time buyer: Get advice at a dedicated running store. They'll put you on a treadmill, ask you what you're running and let you try out different shoes.
That said Track and Field shoes are not recommended for normal running. They offer minimal stability and are only good for sprint paces at the track. Some runners use two kinds of shoes: One that's heavier and has higher stabilitly for their normal training and one with less weight and stability for fast workout at the track and races.
So, again. Go to the store. Tell them what you're doing/planning as a runner, how much you want to spend and what you've been wearing before.
You're going to embrace the moment you run with good shoes for the first time. It makes a huge difference.
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hey guys, lately I pushed my mileage to around 50-60km/per week. My last two track sessions look promising, and I hope to do well on a 7km race on Saturday. Last thursday, I did a 20x200m session and managed to do them all around 35sec. In between them, we walked 100m and then slowly jogged the other 100m. The week before, we ran 8x1km all in 3:45min.
My goal this winter is to push my 5km and 10km as far as I can. To do so, I plan on running around 50-60km/per week and have one hard interval track session per week. For now, I will mostly do short series together with a friend of mine (a 10km 32min PR, who just is getting in form again). He says, that the key of reaching maybe 35min/10km one day is to have these 200m/400m series, maybe even some 100m sprint/100m jog programs. What do you think?
I hope the conditions will be fine saturday, so I get a grasp on what I am standing at the moment concerning my fitness level.
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On December 03 2013 06:28 Bentus wrote:
hey guys, lately I pushed my mileage to around 50-60km/per week. My last two track sessions look promising, and I hope to do well on a 7km race on Saturday. Last thursday, I did a 20x200m session and managed to do them all around 35sec. In between them, we walked 100m and then slowly jogged the other 100m. The week before, we ran 8x1km all in 3:45min.
I hope the conditions will be fine saturday, so I get a grasp on what I am standing at the moment concerning my fitness level.
That 200 session isn't something I would say that looks promising or not promising. The rest is very long: full recovery and then some. A guy in 20:00 shape but with 50s 400 speed could do that workout easily (in fact he could do it at 30s or faster no problem) That said, it's a good workout. It's all about efficiency and relaxation at faster paces which increases running economy enabling your aerobic interval work to feel smoother.
The 8x1k is a nice session, I'd be curious to know your recovery time. Assuming it is decently short, I think you would be easily in 18:30 shape...probably much better. If we are talking 1-2 min recovery that tends to indicate 30 minute fitness for 5 mile race, which is in the neighborhood of 17:45 or so for 5k.
My goal this winter is to push my 5km and 10km as far as I can. To do so, I plan on running around 50-60km/per week and have one hard interval track session per week. For now, I will mostly do short series together with a friend of mine (a 10km 32min PR, who just is getting in form again). He says, that the key of reaching maybe 35min/10km one day is to have these 200m/400m series, maybe even some 100m sprint/100m jog programs. What do you think?
You have your mileage at that 50-60 point now, so assuming you aren't finding it incredibly difficult or anything then I think that works fine even when you add track workouts. If you are feeling really worn down all the time, don't be afraid to cut the mileage slightly (a little decrease in mileage during intense track training is pretty common).
I don't really feel like 200/400m repeats are the keys to running great at 5000 or 10000. 200s really don't relate to those races at all, but as I said before can be used very effectively for running economy and to help you become smoother and more efficient at race pace. Sessions like 20x400 can be used occasionally, and often can be done just faster than intended goal pace but I wouldn't think of them as a bread and butter workout. The sprinting stuff I love. It's important to develop speed as a runner, no matter what distance you are trying to excel at. 60m flying sprints with a lap walk, 6-10s uphill sprints, 100m efforts @ like 97% of all out, etc. are all good pure speed stuff you can incorporate.
Your main workouts though when looking at 10,000 and to a lesser extent 5000 are going to be your aerobic intervals, and earlier in the season; tempo runs. Some standard aerobic intervals for 5000 would be 6-8x800 @ 5k pace with 1:30 recovery jog, 5-6x1000 @ 5k pace with 2:00 recovery, or 3-4x1600m @ 5k pace with lap jog with 2-3 min recovery. 12-20x400m @ 5k pace - 2-3 second/lap with like 60s recovery can also be a nice way to change things up and work a little faster than race pace.
For 10000 your main sessions tend to be workouts like 10-12x1000 @ 10k pace with 60s rest, 6-7x1600m with 2-3 min recovery, and closer to goal race maybe even 3-4x3200m @ 10k pace with 2-3 min recovery.
Closer to goal race time it's pretty common to incorporate some faster, anerobic stuff (10x400m @ mile pace w/60s jog recovery, intense 3k pace 800s, etc) to bring that system to a peak, and again to make race pace feel more relaxed and economical.
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Hopefully you got fitted beforehand. Sometimes what you buy works out, but it's definitely not as consistent as when you get fitted.
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United States24700 Posts
I finally bit the bullet and went for a slow run yesterday. After doing a lap around the neighborhood (3.5 miles) I barely even felt tired or winded, so I went around the block a couple of times (bringing the total to 4.3 mile). That was actually the longest run I've ever done. I guess dropping your speed by like half a mile per hour can make a big difference. Also I think I was dressed perfectly for the outside temperature and achieved some type of ideal thermal equilibrium given my level of exertion.
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On December 03 2013 06:28 Bentus wrote:
hey guys, lately I pushed my mileage to around 50-60km/per week. My last two track sessions look promising, and I hope to do well on a 7km race on Saturday. Last thursday, I did a 20x200m session and managed to do them all around 35sec. In between them, we walked 100m and then slowly jogged the other 100m. The week before, we ran 8x1km all in 3:45min.
My goal this winter is to push my 5km and 10km as far as I can. To do so, I plan on running around 50-60km/per week and have one hard interval track session per week. For now, I will mostly do short series together with a friend of mine (a 10km 32min PR, who just is getting in form again). He says, that the key of reaching maybe 35min/10km one day is to have these 200m/400m series, maybe even some 100m sprint/100m jog programs. What do you think?
I hope the conditions will be fine saturday, so I get a grasp on what I am standing at the moment concerning my fitness level.
It's good to hear you're doing well and progressing with your running. I'd like to hear your friend's reasoning for thinking that speed workouts are so important to running a fast 10k. I'm with L_Master with the line of thinking that it is not a main workout for your goals of running a fast 5 or 10k but still definitely has its benefits.
I think that if you don't have a well thought out training plan with a sensible progression then you should definitely get that in order if you want to run up to your potential.
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On December 03 2013 14:28 micronesia wrote:
I finally bit the bullet and went for a slow run yesterday. After doing a lap around the neighborhood (3.5 miles) I barely even felt tired or winded, so I went around the block a couple of times (bringing the total to 4.3 mile). That was actually the longest run I've ever done. I guess dropping your speed by like half a mile per hour can make a big difference. Also I think I was dressed perfectly for the outside temperature and achieved some type of ideal thermal equilibrium given my level of exertion.
YOU RAN OUTDOORS 
I guess dropping your speed by like half a mile per hour can make a big difference
Definitely. That is like a 10% drop, which is HUGE.
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United States24700 Posts
It isn't exactly the first time I've run outdoors, lol. Usually if I run on the treadmill it's because it's rainy, dark, etc. I actually just ended my gym membership now so I'm going to be running in the freezing god damn weather. If it snows an unusual amount it will make it very difficult to jog.
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On December 03 2013 15:11 micronesia wrote:
It isn't exactly the first time I've run outdoors, lol. Usually if I run on the treadmill it's because it's rainy, dark, etc. I actually just ended my gym membership now so I'm going to be running in the freezing god damn weather. If it snows an unusual amount it will make it very difficult to jog.
I'll be honest, I really, really, REALLY dislike cold weather. But I find running in it tolerable, as long as I am dressed right. Running in deep snow is, for me, really fun. Call me vain, but I like being out there having everyone thinking "what the hell is this crazy kid doing". That and it appeals to me sense of adventure.
You definitely have to slow down though in the snow. Just run by effort, as the pace can be dramatically slower (1,2,3+ min per mile slower).
If it is really an issue I'd personally recommend making either some screw shoes: http://www.skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm or getting a pair of yak-trax
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On December 03 2013 15:11 micronesia wrote:
It isn't exactly the first time I've run outdoors, lol. Usually if I run on the treadmill it's because it's rainy, dark, etc. I actually just ended my gym membership now so I'm going to be running in the freezing god damn weather. If it snows an unusual amount it will make it very difficult to jog.
earmuffs, dude. the world is a beautiful place if you own earmuffs
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United States24700 Posts
Do they make earmuffs that attach to an mp3 player and allow you to still listen to music? Because then I'm game.
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no idea i use £2.99 ones from charity shop they are soft like my cat (cat wont stay on my head when running)
wanted to post a picture of my running getup but shoes are cancelled now (no size 11.5 or 12 in the UK until March??)
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United States24700 Posts
I did another loop around the neighborhood... 46 minutes to jog 4.2 miles... works out to about 5.48 mph I believe. Of course, the uneven pavement at times combined with some hills makes that a bigger accomplishment than it would be on the treadmill. I wasn't feeling that bad when I finished, once again. Thank god for runningmap.com to make these calculations so much easier.
I thought I noticed a bit of a weird sensation in my right knee towards the end. I hope I'm not developing yet another problem.
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Hey, well let me explain it like this: To be able to run a 35min/10km, you need to have the speed for an 3min/km if not faster. WIth these 200m speed workout at around this pace, I want to gain that speed. If I can get this speed, I just have to mantain it over a longer period. By doing so, I will loose some of the speed as the distance increases but hopefully not too much. My hope is to reach a hole new level of running and furthermore, most people tell you, that you have to work on your speed while you are young. Since I am only 18yo, I just want to get the speed basis and maintain it over a longer distance as I train more and more. I have to say that I am a triathlete so I am not only running but also swimming (10-15km per week) and cycling( not alot during the winter). And all my races are minimum 5km run, therefore I cant just focus on shorter distances like most of the HS and college runners do. So my training is a mix of all, which is surely not perfect for just maximizing my running performance.
What would you recommend me running? Most weeks, my trainings schedule looks like this:
Monday 2hours evening swim --->5km
Tuesday Morning run(easy pace 5min/km)12-14km /Evening Swim 1hour
Wed: Evening run 12km progressive run, average about 4:40 but depends on the people showing up (we usually start at 4:50 and end at like 4:10)
Thursday: Afternoon swim (depends if I go home for the weekend or stay) /Evening track session ( only if I go home for the weekend, but that is the case most weeks, if not I go for a 10km run, or 2x3km but not on track)
Friday: Day off, sometimes I go swimming in the evening for 2hours
Saturday: 10,5km or 12km on a hilly course with some friends, pace is around 4:30
Sunday: 15km run hilly, but easy pace
So that is what I am training most weeks, in Spring I will mix in cycling aswell (2times 2-3hours), furthermore I do a little bit of bodyweight training but not on a specific date. 1x per week.
I am not sure, how I could improve it, since I am running mostly with friends, some of them who are much faster than I am. I really want to improve my running performance now during the winter, since running is key in triathlon and decides in almost all sprint races. Would you recommend me to set more of a focus on each run? Like basically, the traditional runners plan with a long run, a track session, a tempo run and some easy runs? Would it help a lot?
I fear mostly the long runs, since I am struggling with shin splints and I can not see too many benefits from it because I already have a lot of volume in my week and my general fitness level should be fine.
So that is about it. Thanks for the tips I really appreciate them!
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EPT
