|
On October 21 2013 09:30 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2013 09:02 LuckyFool wrote:On October 19 2013 07:52 Don_Julio wrote:
I wish you the best of luck Bentus. The bridges will hurt but you seem well prepared. I believe.
Any news on your Marathon, LuckyFool?
Sunday is my Half-Marathon. This race has been my biggest goal for the last three months. I'm targeting sub 1:43 and maybe sub 1:42 if everything works out perfectly. The weather is going to be perfect for running. Up to 20°C and no rain at noon.
I'm scared :-( And excited :-) My marathon is on! It's exactly one week from today and will be my first, I'm actually not nervous at all anymore, pure excitement at this point. Probably because I feel really good, all training has gone decently, I did a 22 mile training run a couple weeks ago and it went well, that was my longest training run to date. I've done a couple other 18 milers, averaging about 40-50mpw the past month. Shooting for anything sub 4 hours as far as finishing time. Hit the first 10k in 57:30-58 min. Trying to bank time earlier will get you killed late, unless you are lucky enough to be WAY fitter than what you are aiming for. Not to mention it's much easier to ease your way into a good rhythm starting from a slightly slower one. It's REALLY easy to go out too fast at a marathon, with the race energy and how slow the pace is relatively speaking. If you hit that first mile in well under 9, don't be afraid to hit back the next one off near 10.
Yeah good advice, basically everyone I've been talking to saying to cruise for the first 20 on pace and then pick it up in the last 10k if possible. Easier said than done especially during the first hour when you feel so good and want to pick it up. I've had this feeling in training runs...I plan on sticking with the 9:09 (4 hour group) for pretty much the first 20 miles or so and then see what I can get done in the last 10k.
|
On October 20 2013 11:28 YPang wrote:
anyone have had IT band syndrome? I got it like 3 weeks ago, i'm on the recovering process. Haven't ran much in those 3 weeks, biked and swam to make up for it. Have a marathon next sunday. Gonna try to run it, not gonna get any PR's though...
How did you guys deal with your previous ITBS if u guys got it before?
Bit late, but I had ITBS over the winter, I did physio for it, pretty extensive program. I was still able to do short runs, as it never bothered me until 7-8k marker, if I went past I ran the risk of it really catching, it would hurt like hell for a few days afterwards.
Basically what I was told, was that if you have that problem its because you have a weak muscle further up your leg, glutes, lower back, stability muscles etc. I did alot of squads, lunges, did leg press /w tense machine on knee, hip exercices etc.
Using a foam roller made a pretty huge difference for me, I still use it even though I am past the problem.
Took I think 2ish months to get past it, though during that time I had an impact injury on my knee from a ski accident(moguls  )
Alot worse injuries to have in my opinion anyways, I would do a 5k then bike 45 minutes or so. I wasn't in marathon shape either though hah. Good luck with your marathon and getting past it.
In the last 2 weeks I bumped up my mileage quite alot, I don't really follow a program or anything I just wing it, I go 6 days a week and do 6-7km, doing short distances for now since I want to work on speed and i'm worried that doubling my mileage without much rest time will tire me out too quickly.
I start at 5min pace and ramp up to 4min pace mid run, back to 5min -> 3:45pace to close. Trying to get my recovery pace faster, is there a better way I can be doing this? Into my third week now I am considering changing 3 of the days to maybe a relaxing 54-56 min 10k, and possibly a longer run 14-15k?
|
doesn't seem to be included in the OP and i'm sure you guys have a quick answer for me...
can you recommend me running shoes? i am super beginner running for cardio only on grass/pavement/stoney terrain.
i want flat shoes with no raised heel, but they need to be padded adequately for running.
price range: willing to spend as little as possible (£30 or less).
you might tell me to just go to any local shoe store and pick out whatever seems to be flat, padded and most comfortable. but i thought i'd ask here first incase there're any intricacies i should be aware of
i already have super flat plimsolls for walking (not padded for running) and i have powerlifting shoes (heel too raised, so doesn't exercise my ankle mobility when running).
|
On October 24 2013 02:20 FFGenerations wrote:
doesn't seem to be included in the OP and i'm sure you guys have a quick answer for me...
can you recommend me running shoes? i am super beginner running for cardio only on grass/pavement/stoney terrain.
i want flat shoes with no raised heel, but they need to be padded adequately for running.
price range: willing to spend as little as possible (£30 or less).
you might tell me to just go to any local shoe store and pick out whatever seems to be flat, padded and most comfortable. but i thought i'd ask here first incase there're any intricacies i should be aware of
i already have super flat plimsolls for walking (not padded for running) and i have powerlifting shoes (heel too raised, so doesn't exercise my ankle mobility when running).
Beginners are safer going to a running shoe specialty store and have the people there watch you run. They will recommend certain shoes for you to try on and see what feels good.
I think you are going in a good direction trying to find a shoe with no raised heel but don't get too caught up in it. Very few shoes are what are called a zero (heel) drop and there are more with a minimal drop. Even zero drop wearers often only wear them for races and hard track workouts and use a minimal heel drop for easy runs. But definitely bring up the issue at a running store and go from there. But just realize that you will most likely be spending more money than you want to.
|
On October 24 2013 01:46 LagLovah wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2013 11:28 YPang wrote:
anyone have had IT band syndrome? I got it like 3 weeks ago, i'm on the recovering process. Haven't ran much in those 3 weeks, biked and swam to make up for it. Have a marathon next sunday. Gonna try to run it, not gonna get any PR's though...
How did you guys deal with your previous ITBS if u guys got it before? Bit late, but I had ITBS over the winter, I did physio for it, pretty extensive program. I was still able to do short runs, as it never bothered me until 7-8k marker, if I went past I ran the risk of it really catching, it would hurt like hell for a few days afterwards. Basically what I was told, was that if you have that problem its because you have a weak muscle further up your leg, glutes, lower back, stability muscles etc. I did alot of squads, lunges, did leg press /w tense machine on knee, hip exercices etc. Using a foam roller made a pretty huge difference for me, I still use it even though I am past the problem. Took I think 2ish months to get past it, though during that time I had an impact injury on my knee from a ski accident(moguls ) Alot worse injuries to have in my opinion anyways, I would do a 5k then bike 45 minutes or so. I wasn't in marathon shape either though hah. Good luck with your marathon and getting past it. In the last 2 weeks I bumped up my mileage quite alot, I don't really follow a program or anything I just wing it, I go 6 days a week and do 6-7km, doing short distances for now since I want to work on speed and i'm worried that doubling my mileage without much rest time will tire me out too quickly. I start at 5min pace and ramp up to 4min pace mid run, back to 5min -> 3:45pace to close. Trying to get my recovery pace faster, is there a better way I can be doing this? Into my third week now I am considering changing 3 of the days to maybe a relaxing 54-56 min 10k, and possibly a longer run 14-15k?
hahaha thanks for your input, I decided not to run that marathon anymore, difficult but was the right decision. I've been using the foam roller a lot nowadays too 2-3x a day. I'm usually very skeptical that i lack help strength because i do like deadlifts at least once a week... and i also bike quite a lot which also activates my glutes, and quads...
|
In the last 2 weeks I bumped up my mileage quite alot, I don't really follow a program or anything I just wing it, I go 6 days a week and do 6-7km, doing short distances for now since I want to work on speed and i'm worried that doubling my mileage without much rest time will tire me out too quickly.
Doubling mileage without rest time? I don't have a clue what you mean...unless you're referring to days of between runs.
6-7km, doing short distances for now since I want to work on speed
6-7 km runs have nothing to do with "speed". Again, not quite sure what you are referring to. If you just mean getting faster on those runs...that is NOT smart training.
I start at 5min pace and ramp up to 4min pace mid run, back to 5min -> 3:45pace to close. Trying to get my recovery pace faster, is there a better way I can be doing this? Into my third week now I am considering changing 3 of the days to maybe a relaxing 54-56 min 10k, and possibly a longer run 14-15k?
That took me a second. Weird to hear "4 minute pace" in reference to kilometers. 
Bolded part - at the risk of sounding harsh this is just flat out stupid. There is literally ZERO benefit to this, and it will just make it hard to have proper faster workouts...in other words best case is nothing changes, probable case is you get over-trained and/or injured. Pretty bad deal.
Without recalling your current 5k/10k ability I can't recommend good pace. General rule of thumb is general aerobic running should be roughly 60-75 s/km slower than current 5k ability, and true recovery running about 2:00/km slower than 5k pace.
|
Like I said, I don't read all the fitness guides and stuff, maybe I should. I have heard it said that if you don't actively work to train for speed then you will likely stagnate at the pace you choose to run at, what I am trying to do is bring up my pace, while still being able to do longer distances.
I had assumed that running more miles per week and running them faster with rest periods during the runs was the way to go about that, but it's also why I am asking, there is way to much misinformation out there.
And I do mean days off, I am going from 20-25kmpw to over 50, I am concerned about injury if I start mixing in longer sessions, which is why I chose the shorter runs, again its just guesswork there, I am sure a more experienced runner would have a better idea what to do. Before this I normally did 8-11k runs 3 times a week, so 5-7 feels short.
My training is a bit aimless right now for sure. What do you mean by "over-trained" anyways?
I guess the question i want to ask here is
Should I be doing shorter faster runs mixed with longer slow ones? If I plan on doing a 6 day week, and my regular speed is say 7.2MPH to make it easier for you american's what would a week look like?
|
On October 26 2013 08:15 LagLovah wrote:
Like I said, I don't read all the fitness guides and stuff, maybe I should. I have heard it said that if you don't actively work to train for speed then you will likely stagnate at the pace you choose to run at, what I am trying to do is bring up my pace, while still being able to do longer distances.
I had assumed that running more miles per week and running them faster with rest periods during the runs was the way to go about that, but it's also why I am asking, there is way to much misinformation out there.
And I do mean days off, I am going from 20-25kmpw to over 50, I am concerned about injury if I start mixing in longer sessions, which is why I chose the shorter runs, again its just guesswork there, I am sure a more experienced runner would have a better idea what to do. Before this I normally did 8-11k runs 3 times a week, so 5-7 feels short.
My training is a bit aimless right now for sure. What do you mean by "over-trained" anyways?
I guess the question i want to ask here is
Should I be doing shorter faster runs mixed with longer slow ones? If I plan on doing a 6 day week, and my regular speed is say 7.2MPH to make it easier for you american's what would a week look like?
You might be overthinking this. Like LMaster suggested, don't worry about your recovery pace. I'm not sure if you're talking about overall easy running pace or what you're doing between intervals during a workout. And it sounds like you're upping your mileage too quickly, which puts you at a greater risk of injury.
Keep things simple. To build endurance make sure you get one quality long run in each week. To build speed to shorter intervals with rest in between. Don't worry about recovery pace, whether it's down time between intervals or just an easy run.
It would be easier if you had a goal in mind. Then you can tailor a training plan to your goal so what you do makes sense. Training aimlessly won't get you anywhere. If you don't have a goal I'm not sure I can really be much of a help to you. Let us know what you want to be doing, if anything.
|
On October 26 2013 08:15 LagLovah wrote:
Like I said, I don't read all the fitness guides and stuff, maybe I should. I have heard it said that if you don't actively work to train for speed then you will likely stagnate at the pace you choose to run at, what I am trying to do is bring up my pace, while still being able to do longer distances.
I had assumed that running more miles per week and running them faster with rest periods during the runs was the way to go about that, but it's also why I am asking, there is way to much misinformation out there.
And I do mean days off, I am going from 20-25kmpw to over 50, I am concerned about injury if I start mixing in longer sessions, which is why I chose the shorter runs, again its just guesswork there, I am sure a more experienced runner would have a better idea what to do. Before this I normally did 8-11k runs 3 times a week, so 5-7 feels short.
My training is a bit aimless right now for sure. What do you mean by "over-trained" anyways?
I guess the question i want to ask here is
Should I be doing shorter faster runs mixed with longer slow ones? If I plan on doing a 6 day week, and my regular speed is say 7.2MPH to make it easier for you american's what would a week look like?
There is a time and place for faster running, and it should be geared around key races. If goal races are say 4+ months away something like this would be appropriate:
M - OFF
Tue - 25 min Tempo or Cruise Interval (roughly 5k pace + 15-20 s/km BUT is done by feel; fast/strong but not hard or difficult)
Wed - Easy run (5k pace + 1:00-1:20 per km)
Thu - Fartlek OR Tempo OR 4-6xMile @ 10k pace w/3-4 min recovery)
Fri - Easy run (5k pace + 1:00-1:20 per km) + 4 -> 8 x 200m fast OR 4-8 x flying 50m full sprint OR 4-8 x 10 sec hill sprint (5-10% type grade)
Sat - Easy run (5k pace + 1:00-1:20 per km)
Sun - Longer run (start easy, can finish stronger at end on SOME weeks if feel good)
If your goal is a 5k as you get closer the schedule would move to something more like this:
M - OFF
Tue - 6-10 x 400m @ mile pace (5k - 25 s/km); recovery starts @ 3 min between repeats and decreases over time to 60s
Wed - Easy/Recovery run (5k pace + 1:00-1:40 per km)
Thu - 5-6 x 1000m @ 5k pace w/2:00 recovery jog
Fri - Easy/Recovery run (5k pace + 1:00-1:40 per km)
Sat - Easy/Recovery run (5k pace + 1:00-1:40 per km) OR RACE
Sun - Longer run (start easy, can finish stronger at end on SOME weeks if feel good), if race then shorter, easier recovery run
In the case of both weeks, there would be more variation of those workouts (we wouldn't do 5x1000m every single week), but that is a general structure for "base" training, and then for in season training with good speedwork.
|
Well, my goal is basically half marathon's. I did 2 last year at 2:08 and 2:12, and I wasn't happy with those times, my falloff was pretty large from what i can do at 5(22min) or 10(50).
I do appreciate the advice you all are giving me, I know its alot more work to write something up like that than it is to tell me I'm doing it wrong haha.
I kind of lean towards short runs because I can get bored running an easy pace for long time periods, but I do my summer races with my brother and we do half marathon's because we are to lazy to train for fulls. I had quite a few injury problems when I started running from scratch at 28, but in the last 8 months I have been injury free. I don't really have goal times or some kind of dream to win a race I participate in.
I started running for general fitness, and kind of just kept generally running, only recently did I really start to hit walls.
*edit* I should mention I also would really like to get my 5k under 20, so I guess I have mixed goals heh.
|
The way to get in shape for HMs is LSD runs. Once every weekend, at least 90 minutes. It's the most important workout. Yes, it can be boring if you have the wrong mindset. I enjoy mine because long runs give me the opportunity to see different stuff, try different directions every time.
If you can't enjoy long runs, HM might me the wrong distance for you.
|
What does LSD stand for there?
|
From that pattern I see there with 22/50/2:10 that's a clear lack of endurance. Just getting in more miles will solve that problem over time as a 22 min 5k guy should be running more like 45:xx/1:45.
The fact that you have only run 2:08 though is a little surprising, and makes me think there could be a pacing issue, possibly combined with lack of overall mileage. 2:08 pace for a 22 min 5k guy should feel almost mindless to run.
As far as half marathon training, it would look a little more like this:
M - OFF
Tue - 4-6 Mile continuous tempo (roughly 5k pace + 20 s/km) OR progression run (start SLOW, gradually increase pace for a strong finish, last few minutes can be hard)
Wed - Easy/Recovery run (5k pace + 1:00-1:40 per km)
Thu - 10x 1k or 6xMile @ 10k pace w/2:00-3:00 min recovery OR 4-6x (10 min @ HMP - 5s/km, 10 min @ 5k pace + 1:00/km) OR 2-3 x3 Mile @ HMP w/4:00 jogging rest
Fri - Easy/Recovery run (5k pace + 1:00-1:40 per km)
Sat - Easy/Recovery run (5k pace + 1:00-1:40 per km) OR RACE
Sun - Longer run (start easy, can finish stronger at end on SOME weeks if feel good), if race then shorter, easier recovery run
|
Thanks, and ya.. the 2:08 i lost it after about 15k, the 2:12 was a hilly course, but those are just excuses, my endurance wasn't where it needed to be, another reason I am running more often. Thanks again for all the advice.
|
On October 27 2013 03:45 LagLovah wrote:
What does LSD stand for there?
Long Slow Distance.
|
On October 27 2013 04:05 Don_Julio wrote:Long Slow Distance.
I'll be honest, I hate the term LSD. The "s" especially.
Too many people take this to mean you go out and plod around slowly for 2 hours...and that is a no in my opinion, unless you are really trying to build up your long run or something, or are training for ultras. You can run them at an easy pace (quicker than slow, at least to me), and if you feel good it's okay to run stronger as the run goes on IF you feel good, as long as you aren't doing that every single week.
|
Testing to see where this is now
|
Phew, even the casual among you are so much more advanced than I am. I started running one 5k a week a couple months ago, takes me 32 to 36 minutes - I had no idea that was so slow!
|
On November 02 2013 05:24 UniversalSnip wrote:
Phew, even the casual among you are so much more advanced than I am. I started running one 5k a week a couple months ago, takes me 32 to 36 minutes - I had no idea that was so slow!
It's not THAT slow, especially if you aren't a slimmer build. That should place you in the vicinity of mid pack at most 5ks. So for someone that just started, finishing about 50% sounds pretty reasonable to me.
|
hmm, I am pretty slim. Makes me feel better that I'm not actually at the back of the curve though, lol.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
