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(Please don't respond with a snarky insult or "go eat paleo" because I won't)
I've been on a vegan diet for the last 8 months or so. I've lost around 25 pounds but kinda hit a wall. I noticed I've been eating a lot of guacamole and potatoes, probably not the best idea.
I've been mixing it up more and eating a lot more fruit/nuts/whole grains/etc. and I feel a lot better. Any idea about how much I need to be eating to get a good days worth of protein? I do a lot of heavy lifting at work and I feel more tired from it then I should. I eat about 2 handfuls of mixed nuts a day, I like to mix em in with granola and some soy yogurt or something like that. Should I think about knocking back some protein shakes or do I just need to add another protein source to my daily diet?
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At least 100 grams of protein a day, should be perfectly doable without protein shakes.
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Guess I'll gain some muscle first and then burn the fat away.
Thanks for the reply
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I have a question for you guys again:
I'm thinking about doing Starting Strength. I'm 15, 5'7", 140 lbs, and about 10-11% body fat. I can do pullups, chinups, etc. and am in pretty good physical condition, but want to start doing strength training and barbell exercises. I was recommended Starting Strength and I've been reading it and I love a lot of the book
Since I'm getting closer to the time where I'm going to start the actual program, I have some questions for Teamliquid and I want you guys to be as honest as possible.
1.) I don't want to bulk up really. I'd rather build muscle in as lean of a way as possible and not spend so much time gaining weight. I'm not looking to get huge and super strong, but rather to increase my strength and get more physically fit. I understand that I may never deadlift 500 lbs or bench 2x my bw, but I'm ok with that and would rather stay in a pretty balanced physique.
2.) I'm somewhat lactose intolerant (not terribly intolerant but I do get gas and sometimes diarrhea if I eat a ton of cheese/milk/fatty foods) and the program calls for huge amounts of milk, way more than I can drink. Should I just try to eat healthy foods, which I'm already doing pretty decently, or should I just try to stick as closely as possible to the plan?
3.) Is the plan only good for bulking up and gaining tons of strength? I can't eat 4000+ Calories a day, even if I tried. I eat closer to 2200 a day (if even that) and I would have to be burning off way more calories to put on that extra weight that the program calls for.
4.) Lastly, I don't have that much time to dedicate to weight lifting because of school and the fact that I don't go to a nice gym (shitty Planet Fitness FTW, hope to get a new membership somewhere else but for the mean time I'm stuck here). Is there anything I can do to supplement the gym, which I can probably go to twice during the week and once over the weekend, given SS's program?
Thanks for any advice TLHF.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
- You won't bulk up if you don't eat more than you currently do. For 5'7, 140lbs, you can definitely put on ~20lbs without looking bulky or fat.
- Don't drink too much milk. If you want to drink more, you can try lactase pills which will help your body digest milk.
- You don't need to eat 4k calories a day to train on starting strength, keep eating the same. If you find that your recovery is suffering in the future (this will happen), you can start eating healthier foods or increase your calorie intake by a few hundred.
- You only need to work out 3 times a week to make good gains. If you don't know if you should train more frequently, then you don't need to train more frequently.
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On March 03 2013 04:53 infinity21 wrote:- You won't bulk up if you don't eat more than you currently do. For 5'7, 140lbs, you can definitely put on ~20lbs without looking bulky or fat.
- Don't drink too much milk. If you want to drink more, you can try lactase pills which will help your body digest milk.
- You don't need to eat 4k calories a day to train on starting strength, keep eating the same. If you find that your recovery is suffering in the future (this will happen), you can start eating healthier foods or increase your calorie intake by a few hundred.
- You only need to work out 3 times a week to make good gains. If you don't know if you should train more frequently, then you don't need to train more frequently.
Ok thanks. I don't really wanna drink any milk if I can avoid it, but I do eat string cheese every day (I know that won't make up for the deficit from the milk but w/e) in moderation. I guess my last step is to get a better gym membership and start Starting Strength. I'm learning all the lifts pretty soon cause that's the best time for me to do it, and after that I guess I'll just take it from there.
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Bulking doesnt mean you'll look fat, I don't think I've ever been over 15% bf for example, you'll simply look like a beast :p
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On March 03 2013 02:01 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
(Please don't respond with a snarky insult or "go eat paleo" because I won't)
I've been on a vegan diet for the last 8 months or so. I've lost around 25 pounds but kinda hit a wall. I noticed I've been eating a lot of guacamole and potatoes, probably not the best idea.
I've been mixing it up more and eating a lot more fruit/nuts/whole grains/etc. and I feel a lot better. Any idea about how much I need to be eating to get a good days worth of protein? I do a lot of heavy lifting at work and I feel more tired from it then I should. I eat about 2 handfuls of mixed nuts a day, I like to mix em in with granola and some soy yogurt or something like that. Should I think about knocking back some protein shakes or do I just need to add another protein source to my daily diet?
For someone attempting to build muscle, and doing weight training you want ~1.5 g/lb of bodyweight in protein (so for a 200 lb man, 300g). For someone just looking to maintain a healthy diet and keep their energy level up, more is better but you shouldn't need more than 1g/lb of bodyweight. Not sure how you'll be able to do that on a vegan diet, considering that the protein you're "allowed" to eat doesn't really work in your body, but... good luck.
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Basically everyone doing weight lifting for muscle and strength in any sport swears by protein. But from a biochemical and metabolic point of view it doesn't make a lot of sense to me and the research is sparse. But there is no harm in eating a lot of (plant) protein.
All beans are high in protein. Then also tofu and quorn. I really like quorn myself and it has really low fat varieties. I don't know how many varieties contain egg or dairy though. I usually stay away from soy, grain or dairy 'meat substitute' products. Do not like them and don't want the high far dairy ones anyway.
If you feel tired then this is more likely to have to do with something like anemia, not protein. Did you ever get your B12 tested?
Vegan protein 'doesn't really work in your body'? Lol. One thing it does not do. Surely it are those hormones that boost growth, not the protein.
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On March 04 2013 23:49 Tadatomo wrote:
Basically everyone doing weight lifting for muscle and strength in any sport swears by protein. But from a biochemical and metabolic point of view it doesn't make a lot of sense to me and the research is sparse. But there is no harm in eating a lot of (plant) protein.
Sure, statements are made that greatly overestimate the importance of protein in the diet, especially on weightlifting blogs and forums. Research does support however, that there isn't a downside to eating as much as 4g/lb of BW (in trained bodybuilders) and that you should probably be eating at least 1g/lb of bodyweight.
On March 04 2013 23:49 Tadatomo wrote:
All beans are high in protein. Then also tofu and quorn. I really like quorn myself and it has really low fat varieties. I don't know how many varieties contain egg or dairy though. I usually stay away from soy, grain or dairy 'meat substitute' products. Do not like them and don't want the high far dairy ones anyway.
you'll find the majority of users on this forum to be paleo. That's changing, as we get more an more "new blood" but it still remains the most common. I'm not even sure what "quorn" is, but beans, soy and grains are typically avoided on account of genetic modifications, effect on hormones, and anti-nutrient portfolio. Fat is usually seen as a good thing. Of course this also entails eating grass-fed beef and such, which isn't possible for everyone.
On March 04 2013 23:49 Tadatomo wrote:
If you feel tired then this is more likely to have to do with something like anemia, not protein. Did you ever get your B12 tested?
Protein provides lasting energy and satiety in the body. Carbs provide short term energy. of course there are other reasons to feel tired, but not getting enough protein could certainly be one of them. That's just basic stuff...
On March 04 2013 23:49 Tadatomo wrote:
Vegan protein 'doesn't really work in your body'? Lol. One thing it does not do. Surely it are those hormones that boost growth, not the protein.
Vegan protein sources are significantly less bioavailable than dairy, meat, or eggs. Meaning that if you're trying to get the same amount of "useful" protein from a vegan diet, you're going to need to actually consume a lot more of the products. That's what I meant by "doesn't really work".
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What is paleo?
Quorn is a fungi product high in protein (and much lower in water than ordinary mushrooms).
Our bodies run on carbs, not on protein or fat. Both of these need to be converted to carbs to be used as energy.
Only in the US are GM foods allowed. They are banned in other countries. Animals are fed GM foods in both the US and in other places. So if you buy into the idea that GM is bad, you avoid both.
Effects on hormones? Are you talking about dairy and meat or beans? Not sure.
Claims that carbs are short term energy and protein are long term energy, when protein cant be stored, can't be used as energy directly while carbs can be stored and then very quickly 'recruited' as an energy source boggles the mind.
Also, how is protein from plants less 'bioavailable'? Are you referring to protein completeness? Otherwise it doesn't really make sense.
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On March 05 2013 03:07 Tadatomo wrote:
What is paleo?
A diet focused on eating grass-fed meat, vegetables, eggs, some fruit and starch. No grains, No legumes, No processed foods, No dairy (the "no dairy" is debatable, but strict paleo doesn't accept it.)
On March 05 2013 03:07 Tadatomo wrote:
Quorn is a fungi product high in protein (and much lower in water than ordinary mushrooms).
While I doubt it tastes very good, it sounds like the most healthy thing you've recommended so far.
On March 05 2013 03:07 Tadatomo wrote:
Our bodies run on carbs, not on protein or fat. Both of these need to be converted to carbs to be used as energy.
Only in the US are GM foods allowed. They are banned in other countries. Animals are fed GM foods in both the US and in other places. So if you buy into the idea that GM is bad, you avoid both.
Grass fed cows aren't. They're not given antibiotics or hormones, they're allowed to roam in pasture, and they eat (surprise) grass. It's how a cow would naturally exist, and the result is a much healthier (although more expensive) food product. Similarly, you eat wild-caught fish instead of farm raised, and free-range poultry.
On March 05 2013 03:07 Tadatomo wrote:
Effects on hormones? Are you talking about dairy and meat or beans? Not sure.
I'm talking about dairy and soy.
On March 05 2013 03:07 Tadatomo wrote:
Claims that carbs are short term energy and protein are long term energy, when protein cant be stored, can't be used as energy directly while carbs can be stored and then very quickly 'recruited' as an energy source boggles the mind.
no system of the body operates in a vacuum. Consider that the majority of carbohydrates people take in today are extremely simple carbohydrates; these result in a large insulin response, and faster breakdown. Protein is digested and absorbed more slowly than simple carbohydrates, and is only converted to energy when it is necessary to do so - providing energy over a longer span of time. Pre breakdown, there are additional beneficial effects on the body that you don't get out of carbohydrates.
On March 05 2013 03:07 Tadatomo wrote:
Also, how is protein from plants less 'bioavailable'? Are you referring to protein completeness? Otherwise it doesn't really make sense.
Bioavailability is a measure of what fraction of a protein is absorbed, in a state that renders it still a functional by a person. It has nothing to do with completeness, which is another matter entirely (animal proteins are complete - plant proteins are typically not, and it takes more effort and knowledge to get complete proteins out of mixing them.)
I don't have a chart in front of me, but if I remember correctly, dairy and eggs are the most useful forms of protein, followed by meat sources (with beef leading them). Soy, the BEST vegan protein source is ~half as effective as dairy, and beans are even worse.
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On March 04 2013 23:49 Tadatomo wrote:
Basically everyone doing weight lifting for muscle and strength in any sport swears by protein. But from a biochemical and metabolic point of view it doesn't make a lot of sense to me and the research is sparse. But there is no harm in eating a lot of (plant) protein.
All beans are high in protein. Then also tofu and quorn. I really like quorn myself and it has really low fat varieties. I don't know how many varieties contain egg or dairy though. I usually stay away from soy, grain or dairy 'meat substitute' products. Do not like them and don't want the high far dairy ones anyway.
If you feel tired then this is more likely to have to do with something like anemia, not protein. Did you ever get your B12 tested?
Vegan protein 'doesn't really work in your body'? Lol. One thing it does not do. Surely it are those hormones that boost growth, not the protein.
I've been feeling a lot better lately. I think cutting out all the starch and carbs helped.
Before my meals were something like this (really stupid):
Morning: toast w/ peanut butter and a granola bar
Lunch: Burrito (beans, rice, guac, potatoes, salsa)
Dinner: Pasta/Falafel/Potato Salad
Yesterday -
Morning: Oatmeal with raising/banana and mixed nuts
Lunch: Falafel with salad
Dinner: Two slices of french bread with olive oil/garlic, put grilled veggies on top and had a small bowl of rice
Snacking on a lot of fruit/nuts inbetween.
I don't plan on bodybuilding so I don't really mind if plant proteins aren't as efficient. There are vegan/athletes and bodybuilders around so obviously it wouldn't be impossible if I wanted to start weight training but that's not something I plan on doing soon.
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On March 05 2013 07:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 23:49 Tadatomo wrote:
Basically everyone doing weight lifting for muscle and strength in any sport swears by protein. But from a biochemical and metabolic point of view it doesn't make a lot of sense to me and the research is sparse. But there is no harm in eating a lot of (plant) protein.
All beans are high in protein. Then also tofu and quorn. I really like quorn myself and it has really low fat varieties. I don't know how many varieties contain egg or dairy though. I usually stay away from soy, grain or dairy 'meat substitute' products. Do not like them and don't want the high far dairy ones anyway.
If you feel tired then this is more likely to have to do with something like anemia, not protein. Did you ever get your B12 tested?
Vegan protein 'doesn't really work in your body'? Lol. One thing it does not do. Surely it are those hormones that boost growth, not the protein. I've been feeling a lot better lately. I think cutting out all the starch and carbs helped. Before my meals were something like this (really stupid): Morning: toast w/ peanut butter and a granola bar Lunch: Burrito (beans, rice, guac, potatoes, salsa) Dinner: Pasta/Falafel/Potato Salad Yesterday - Morning: Oatmeal with raising/banana and mixed nuts Lunch: Falafel with salad Dinner: Two slices of french bread with olive oil/garlic, put grilled veggies on top and had a small bowl of rice Snacking on a lot of fruit/nuts inbetween. I don't plan on bodybuilding so I don't really mind if plant proteins aren't as efficient. There are vegan/athletes and bodybuilders around so obviously it wouldn't be impossible if I wanted to start weight training but that's not something I plan on doing soon.
Of course not, and that's fine. Different people have different goals. Vegan athletes/bodybuilders exist pretty much exclusively on supplements and drugs though - as do many non-vegan athletes/bodybuilders. They are not good examples for how a person should act if they want to be healthy.
The important thing is that for "health" you should be getting 0.8-1g/lb of bodyweight in protein, and if you're getting that from poorly bioavailable sources you should be eating a bit more than that to comensate.
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On March 05 2013 09:26 phyre112 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 07:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On March 04 2013 23:49 Tadatomo wrote:
Basically everyone doing weight lifting for muscle and strength in any sport swears by protein. But from a biochemical and metabolic point of view it doesn't make a lot of sense to me and the research is sparse. But there is no harm in eating a lot of (plant) protein.
All beans are high in protein. Then also tofu and quorn. I really like quorn myself and it has really low fat varieties. I don't know how many varieties contain egg or dairy though. I usually stay away from soy, grain or dairy 'meat substitute' products. Do not like them and don't want the high far dairy ones anyway.
If you feel tired then this is more likely to have to do with something like anemia, not protein. Did you ever get your B12 tested?
Vegan protein 'doesn't really work in your body'? Lol. One thing it does not do. Surely it are those hormones that boost growth, not the protein. I've been feeling a lot better lately. I think cutting out all the starch and carbs helped. Before my meals were something like this (really stupid): Morning: toast w/ peanut butter and a granola bar Lunch: Burrito (beans, rice, guac, potatoes, salsa) Dinner: Pasta/Falafel/Potato Salad Yesterday - Morning: Oatmeal with raising/banana and mixed nuts Lunch: Falafel with salad Dinner: Two slices of french bread with olive oil/garlic, put grilled veggies on top and had a small bowl of rice Snacking on a lot of fruit/nuts inbetween. I don't plan on bodybuilding so I don't really mind if plant proteins aren't as efficient. There are vegan/athletes and bodybuilders around so obviously it wouldn't be impossible if I wanted to start weight training but that's not something I plan on doing soon. Of course not, and that's fine. Different people have different goals. Vegan athletes/bodybuilders exist pretty much exclusively on supplements and drugs though. The important thing is that for "health" you should be getting 0.8-1g/lb of bodyweight in protein, and if you're getting that from poorly bioavailable sources you should be eating a bit more than that to comensate.
Noted.
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Hey guys, I've decided to try to live a healthier lifestyle with exercise and proper food, since especially lately, I've been really tired of feeling like shit and eating fast food pretty much every day.
First of all, I'm around 5'8 and 140 lbs. From looking up the average weight for my height, 140 lbs seems around the norm. However, I think I'm what they call skinny fat? Basically very skinny and pretty much no muscles anywhere but still sitting at around 140 lbs. I guess my goals are just to get stronger, be healthier, and actually have some sort of definition on my body.
My main question for now is:
What should I be doing with my weight? I realize whatever I do, I should be eating real food and working out (gonna do the starting strength program) but should I be overall looking to lose weight but gain muscles/lose fat, staying around the same, or bulking up and eating a lot to gain weight?
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On March 04 2013 23:49 Tadatomo wrote:
Basically everyone doing weight lifting for muscle and strength in any sport swears by protein. But from a biochemical and metabolic point of view it doesn't make a lot of sense to me and the research is sparse. But there is no harm in eating a lot of (plant) protein.
All beans are high in protein. Then also tofu and quorn. I really like quorn myself and it has really low fat varieties. I don't know how many varieties contain egg or dairy though. I usually stay away from soy, grain or dairy 'meat substitute' products. Do not like them and don't want the high far dairy ones anyway.
If you feel tired then this is more likely to have to do with something like anemia, not protein. Did you ever get your B12 tested?
Vegan protein 'doesn't really work in your body'? Lol. One thing it does not do. Surely it are those hormones that boost growth, not the protein.
This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.
I take high school biology and even I can tell you that saying that "...from a biomechanical and metabolic point of view it doesn't make a lot of sense" is ridiculous. Protein is the best macronutrient in terms of efficiency of its use. It might not be the fastest burned macronutrient, it might not be the most abundant nutrient, but it's the best.
Your body (almost everything about it) and the process of digesting the protein and your body breaking it down is much better for you than is breaking down carbohydrates or lipids.Your body efficiently uses protein to rebuild anything in your body. You might have learned about in high school health, where they tell you it's the "building block of life."
In your body from a relatively simple standpoint, you absolutely need protein (amino acids). In the process of transcription, DNA is made into mRNA (just by matching the base pairs of the nucleotides). In the process of translation, mRNA goes to tRNA which is turned into amino acids. Your body CANNOT produce every amino acids. Some of these MUST BE had in your diet, called essential amino acids.
I'm going to go ahead and assume that you are aware of most of this stuff, but saying that protein is anything but the most important nutrient that you can get is absolutely absurd. Vitamins assist in your bodily functions and processes, they don't build muscle, repair muscle, or change your body composition. Saying that they do is ridiculous.
Burning ATP efficiently isn't the only thing your body needs to do (the process of making it is called cellular respiration in case you're wondering). If creating and using ATP was your sole function, you wouldn't ever need anything but glucose. Just because carbohydrates are your key source of energy, doesn't mean that they're your best. The reason that they're the first used is because they're the most abundant in the earth. This means that form an evolutionary standpoint, someone can get the most of it and use it the fastest. Why would we use something that's the most important for us to rebuild our bodies with first?
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On March 05 2013 17:56 bingbing wrote:
Hey guys, I've decided to try to live a healthier lifestyle with exercise and proper food, since especially lately, I've been really tired of feeling like shit and eating fast food pretty much every day.
First of all, I'm around 5'8 and 140 lbs. From looking up the average weight for my height, 140 lbs seems around the norm. However, I think I'm what they call skinny fat? Basically very skinny and pretty much no muscles anywhere but still sitting at around 140 lbs. I guess my goals are just to get stronger, be healthier, and actually have some sort of definition on my body.
My main question for now is:
What should I be doing with my weight? I realize whatever I do, I should be eating real food and working out (gonna do the starting strength program) but should I be overall looking to lose weight but gain muscles/lose fat, staying around the same, or bulking up and eating a lot to gain weight?
Well first it depends how committed you are. If you're really committed and are willing to do this, I'd recommend going full paleo diet. If you're not super 100% committed to making a full lifestyle change, Check out the stickies and other threads in this subforum first, but if you still need help I'd recommend a few things.
1. Cut out all drinks except water and milk. Juice is OK, but too much of it isn't great. Try to avoid sugary things like regular gatorade, Iced Tea, soda, etc. Obviously drinking here and there or having coffee won't kill you, but really try to avoid soda in particular (it's loaded with sugars which terrible for losing weight).
2. Try to get your daily serving of protein a day (probably 80-100 grams, unless you're trying to do lots of strength training).
3. Get on a strength training program. There are tons of good ones, just pick one that you like and try to commit to going to a gym 2 or 3 times a week. There are lots of threads with great information on here, especially the General Training Recommendations.
4. Get rid of any unnecessary calories/carbs in your diet (chips, cookies, any junk food basically) and start counting your calories.
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Well this is more of a health question so i hope i am in the right place.
Yesterday i had a cyst removed from my face. It had been ruptured under the skin and gotten infected, causing me a lot of pain and lack of sleep. After scheduling an appointment for tuesday morning i had decided last night after work that i really didn't want to wait to see how bad it was going to get. After going into the ER they determined it was a Sebaceous cyst.The doctor removed it and told me there was a chance it could come back, then put a gauze strip in the wound to soak up the leakage, then covered it all up by a bandage. So today (24 hours after the surgery) when i took out the gauze as instructed, i noticed there was a hard lump where the cyst used to be. It doesn't hurt at all, but i am worried what it might be. They put me on antibiotics for six days. Should i wait till i use all the antibiotics, or should i check in with my doctor to see what it might be?
TL:DR Hard lump where cyst used to be the day after removal.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.criticalbench.com/images/bioavailability-understanding-protein-absorption-chart.jpg)
