TL Health and Fitness Initiative 2011 - Page 590

On September 17 2011 09:13 eshlow wrote:

You're asking two different questions.

Eating a lot + lifting = gaining muscle and weight in general

Eating less + cardio + light weights like he did = going to lose weight, maybe gain some muscle

These two are not nearly the same thing because you are changing multiple variables: e.g. changing diet, type of weights lifted, cardio or not, etc.

This also depends if your STARTING point is: underweight, normal weight, or obese


He was approximately normal weight, and did #2 it looks like. Now he looks shredded but I can't tell if he's underweight without his height.

If you cut caloric intake and lift heavy weights you will likely get shredded faster than what he did though.

But that's not what you're asking because you don't understand the concepts yet...

Read this:
http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2009/08/the-relationship-between-diet-and-exercise/

On September 17 2011 09:18 Slithe wrote:
It says in the title that he's 5'6". Given that, I would say a weight of 147 is not at all unreasonable to have a decent build.

It sounds like his routine is largely based around aesthetics, so I think it makes sense that he would want to do cardio to get that really low body fat %. Also, body shape is not exactly the best measure of strength, so I would be curious to see what his numbers actually are, as opposed to just pictures.

On September 17 2011 09:18 HerbalTylenol wrote:


Thanks for the link. It seems to give too general advice I think...

"2. You are at a “healthy weight” for your height, but want to “tone up” and gain muscle mass while losing fat.

Exercise here is the most important for any significant body composition change. Depending on the different types of exercise, your body may see fit to increase muscle mass and/or burn off excess fat mass (in conjunction with proper nutrition).

Diet is still very important because quality foods will produce faster body composition changes. This depends a lot on genetics (hence why elite athletes can generally eat crap and get away with it), but even with good body composition changes with junky food may be at the expense of overall long term health."

That's where I feel I am.

So I'm guessing the people that lift heavy and don't cut caloric intake, like the 3000+ cals people posts, are doing it not to get shredded but to just lift more?

On September 17 2011 09:20 HerbalTylenol wrote:


I've searched around, but I can't find any specific numbers from him. If you find any, let me know

EDIT: Hmm...you're saying that a lot of his routine is based around aesthetics. Now I'm under the impression that people who frequent this thread are looking to get healthy and fit (duh)...so does that necessarily just entail lifting heavy? I would think a lot of people would like to look good aesthetically, so wouldn't it makes sense to list advice on eating less and proper cardio for these types of people as well?

On September 17 2011 09:29 eshlow wrote:

It depends on what your goals are.

Gaining muscle, which is beneficial for about 99% of the sedentary population, is easier to do by eating a lot and lifting heavy.

If you are on the heavier side, it may be better to start off in a caloric deficit and lift heavy weights.

However, all of this needs to be put in context though -- most of the people that think they need to lose weight and gain muscle really just need to get bigger in general before they think about losing fat.

5'6" 140 something that he ended up with is reasonable I guess.... but he would look at a lot better with another 10-20 lbs of muscle on him.

On September 17 2011 09:32 eshlow wrote:
No.

Aesthetics is still obtained more quickly by lifting heavy first and gaining muscle mass, THEN branching out into some more a more bodybuilding type routine as an intermediate/advance lifter + cutting down with diet and cardio.

I'm not sure what is so hard to understand about this. Ignore what fitness myths you have heard about cardio and whatnot.

On September 17 2011 09:49 AoN.DimSum wrote:
What eshlow recommends is the most effective way to gain muscle/lose weight. It doesnt mean that there arent other ways to get the same goal. There are more than one way to skin a cat.

On September 17 2011 09:39 HerbalTylenol wrote:


There are no 'myths' that I've heard. I've linked you the thread where a guy eats a lot less than what's recommended here and does intense cardio. I would say that's hard evidence, not 'myth' based.

I mean here's this thread on 1 hand recommending certain things, and then that guy doing different things. You really don't see why it could be hard to understand? Your advice is on 1 end of the spectrum and what that guy did seems to be closer to the other end. That's why I'm getting confused.

On September 17 2011 09:54 HerbalTylenol wrote:


So assuming you read that reddit thread, would you say that guy could have skipped cardio entirely and had the same results? Just curious, as I'm not sure.

On September 17 2011 09:54 eshlow wrote:

Again,

1. He didn't do JUST cardio. He also lifted weights, albeit in the higher repetition range. As a beginner he is still going to get some hypertrophy off of it, and

2. he ate hypocalorically -- the program recommended for gaining the most muscle is to eat a lot first -- then IF you want to get more ripped you can cut down from there.

If you cannot see the difference between the recommendation made for a certain population, and what this guy did I can't help you. Additionally, just because he cut and tried to add muscle at a moderate weight does not make it evidence.

He could've improved his ability to do these things first by adding more muscle, then cutting down.

If you choose not to believe any of this and do your own thing then go for it. I hope you get the results you want.

I'm done discussing this topic. It's a waste of my time.

On September 17 2011 10:01 Malinor wrote:
You should also keep in mind that eshlow often argues mostly from a health point of view, where he views lifting heavy and eating a little bit more as better than eating less and doing cardio.

On September 17 2011 10:03 Froadac wrote:
At maximum what % should carbs make up? I think my diet is like 65% plus carbs lol.