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TL Health and Fitness Initiative 2011 - Page 591

Forum Index > Sports
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HerbalTylenol
Profile Joined September 2010
62 Posts
September 17 2011 01:09 GMT
#11801
On September 17 2011 10:05 Malinor wrote:
3am and I am wide awake, that's what I get for napping twice today, not even that Power Clean session today makes me tired at all
If only it would rain outside so I could take a nice refreshing walk.


Why does it have to rain? Is it that hot in Germany?
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
September 17 2011 01:10 GMT
#11802
On September 17 2011 10:07 Malinor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 10:03 Froadac wrote:
At maximum what % should carbs make up? I think my diet is like 65% plus carbs lol.


Doesn't matter for you, you need to eat, or do you want to be mistaken for a freshman again?
But eshlow would probably recommend something like 40%-50% max, but less if possible, if I had to take a wild guess.

Grargh. yeah. Won't stop me from eating. Was just tracking cals from fitday and was like o.o

Coming home at lunch now. Lets me eat a lot more.
Malinor
Profile Joined November 2008
Germany4755 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-17 01:16:40
September 17 2011 01:15 GMT
#11803
On September 17 2011 10:07 HerbalTylenol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 10:01 Malinor wrote:
You should also keep in mind that eshlow often argues mostly from a health point of view, where he views lifting heavy and eating a little bit more as better than eating less and doing cardio.


Yep that's what I'm understanding from his posts. However, the only reason I've found for him advocating this is that it's generally just easier for most people to do. Easy doesn't necessarily mean most efficient or best results, though.

And if I prod him too much, which you can see above, he'll get mad : \ So it's fine, I think I have a general answer, but I'll keep reading responses from people.


I don't think that's what he is trying to get across at all. Lifting heavy provides the best muscular adaptations (growth, mass, strength) plus a lot of the benefits that cardio provides (not all though), and therefore is all in all superior and also more efficient than cardio.

And eshlow doesn't get mad at you, he is only repeating the same things over and over again for 2 1/2 years and therefore sometimes loses his patience
Just make sure that when you are disagreeing with him, you have some sources to back it up with, and a blog from a shredded gamer is unfortunately not a very reliable source.
"Withstand. Suffer. Live as you must now live. There will, one day, be answer to this." ||| "A life, Jimmy, you know what that is? It's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come."
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
September 17 2011 01:15 GMT
#11804
On September 17 2011 10:07 HerbalTylenol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 10:01 Malinor wrote:
You should also keep in mind that eshlow often argues mostly from a health point of view, where he views lifting heavy and eating a little bit more as better than eating less and doing cardio.


Yep that's what I'm understanding from his posts. However, the only reason I've found for him advocating this is that it's generally just easier for most people to do. Easy doesn't necessarily mean most efficient or best results, though.

And if I prod him too much, which you can see above, he'll get mad : \ So it's fine, I think I have a general answer, but I'll keep reading responses from people.


No.

I always recommend the most efficient / optimal way of doing things.
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
Malinor
Profile Joined November 2008
Germany4755 Posts
September 17 2011 01:16 GMT
#11805
On September 17 2011 10:09 HerbalTylenol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 10:05 Malinor wrote:
3am and I am wide awake, that's what I get for napping twice today, not even that Power Clean session today makes me tired at all
If only it would rain outside so I could take a nice refreshing walk.


Why does it have to rain? Is it that hot in Germany?


No, it is not. But I like rain. Cold and windy alone is boring, together with rain it becomes beautiful
"Withstand. Suffer. Live as you must now live. There will, one day, be answer to this." ||| "A life, Jimmy, you know what that is? It's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come."
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
September 17 2011 01:16 GMT
#11806
On September 17 2011 10:03 Froadac wrote:
At maximum what % should carbs make up? I think my diet is like 65% plus carbs lol.


When you're trying to gain weight it doesn't really matter...

If you are trying to eat everything in sight try to make most of it real foods though.
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
HerbalTylenol
Profile Joined September 2010
62 Posts
September 17 2011 01:20 GMT
#11807
On September 17 2011 10:15 Malinor wrote:

I don't think that's what he is trying to get across at all. Lifting heavy provides the best muscular adaptations (growth, mass, strength) plus a lot of the benefits that cardio provides (not all though), and therefore is all in all superior and also more efficient than cardio.

And eshlow doesn't get mad at you, he is only repeating the same things over and over again for 2 1/2 years and therefore sometimes loses his patience
Just make sure that when you are disagreeing with him, you have some sources to back it up with, and a blog from a shredded gamer is unfortunately not a very reliable source.


Things is, I'm not really disagreeing. I was trying to find out if that shredded gamer was an outlier, if his routine could have been improved upon, or just things about heavy lifting that would be better than that shredded gamer's routine. In fact, I don't even care that much about his routine, I mainly wanted to know about the reason behind his low cals count.

I don't think any of my posts had a negative/disagreeing tone either. I'm actually just inquiring So I guess it's just a communication issue.
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
September 17 2011 01:24 GMT
#11808
On September 17 2011 10:20 HerbalTylenol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 10:15 Malinor wrote:

I don't think that's what he is trying to get across at all. Lifting heavy provides the best muscular adaptations (growth, mass, strength) plus a lot of the benefits that cardio provides (not all though), and therefore is all in all superior and also more efficient than cardio.

And eshlow doesn't get mad at you, he is only repeating the same things over and over again for 2 1/2 years and therefore sometimes loses his patience
Just make sure that when you are disagreeing with him, you have some sources to back it up with, and a blog from a shredded gamer is unfortunately not a very reliable source.


Things is, I'm not really disagreeing. I was trying to find out if that shredded gamer was an outlier, if his routine could have been improved upon, or just things about heavy lifting that would be better than that shredded gamer's routine. In fact, I don't even care that much about his routine, I mainly wanted to know about the reason behind his low cals count.

I don't think any of my posts had a negative/disagreeing tone either. I'm actually just inquiring So I guess it's just a communication issue.


Again, you're not understanding.

http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2009/08/the-relationship-between-diet-and-exercise/

I. Diet modulates weight.
II. Exercise modulates body composition.

1. Nutrition quality will improve how fast you lose or gain weight.
2. Exercise intensity will improve how fast your body composition changes.

These statements tell you EVERYTHING. Literally.

calories = NUTRITION issue. Nutrition is about REDUCING OR GAINING WEIGHT. Low cals = reducing weight.

TRAINING is a SEPARATE issue.

It's not that hard. I've explained this probably 5 times to you now and you still don't get it.
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
HerbalTylenol
Profile Joined September 2010
62 Posts
September 17 2011 01:31 GMT
#11809
On September 17 2011 10:24 eshlow wrote:

Again, you're not understanding.

http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2009/08/the-relationship-between-diet-and-exercise/

I. Diet modulates weight.
II. Exercise modulates body composition.

1. Nutrition quality will improve how fast you lose or gain weight.
2. Exercise intensity will improve how fast your body composition changes.

These statements tell you EVERYTHING. Literally.

calories = NUTRITION issue. Nutrition is about REDUCING OR GAINING WEIGHT. Low cals = reducing weight.

TRAINING is a SEPARATE issue.

It's not that hard. I've explained this probably 5 times to you now and you still don't get it.


Not sure why you keep quoting and responding to me. I've read that link a few times now, and I've already said I got my answer.

Maybe you just feel the need to keep repeating things over and over after I've already said I don't need you responding anymore. Your attitude in your replies is quite condescending as well. Is it really a problem if someone doesn't understand right away?

I've got my answer, let's move on. I understand you've probably answered questions like mine over and over, but if you can't exercise patience in your answers, then wouldn't it make sense for you to not reply? Thanks and take it easy.
phyre112
Profile Joined August 2009
United States3090 Posts
September 17 2011 01:44 GMT
#11810
On September 17 2011 10:02 HerbalTylenol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 09:54 eshlow wrote:

Again,

1. He didn't do JUST cardio. He also lifted weights, albeit in the higher repetition range. As a beginner he is still going to get some hypertrophy off of it, and

2. he ate hypocalorically -- the program recommended for gaining the most muscle is to eat a lot first -- then IF you want to get more ripped you can cut down from there.

If you cannot see the difference between the recommendation made for a certain population, and what this guy did I can't help you. Additionally, just because he cut and tried to add muscle at a moderate weight does not make it evidence.

He could've improved his ability to do these things first by adding more muscle, then cutting down.

If you choose not to believe any of this and do your own thing then go for it. I hope you get the results you want.

I'm done discussing this topic. It's a waste of my time.


You seem to be getting pretty mad at just explaining things. That's fine, you don't need to answer my question. Again, I'm just looking to get clarity and I'm asking questions. If you're getting pissed off at your inability to explain things clearly, then don't waste your time with it.


He could've improved his ability to do these things first by adding more muscle, then cutting down.
That's exactly what I wanted to know. Nowhere did I say I don't believe it. I just wasn't sure whether his way was more efficient or whether lifting and building first then cutting would be better.

So I'll just read up myself why adding more muscle and cutting after would be a quicker way to my goals compared to what this guy did...because asking questions here seems to get grumpy responses.


He's only grumpy because he's explained these things a hundred times over the past (almost) 600 pages. When the subforum opens up, this stuff will all be stickied, so it'll hopefully be "problem solved". Also, Eshlow has research and scientific articles to back up almost everything that he says in this thread; so arguing with him on the basis of "some guy on reddit did this and..." is a lot like trying to box someone who's holding a gun to your head.

I shouldn't be going out tonight, but I am. At least for a little while; team party and all that. I've got to learn some more names. I'll still be up early for ridiculous shit tomorrow, and then up late tomorrow night. I don't think it would be a rugby game without most of the team being hungover, right?
HerbalTylenol
Profile Joined September 2010
62 Posts
September 17 2011 01:48 GMT
#11811
On September 17 2011 10:44 phyre112 wrote:

He's only grumpy because he's explained these things a hundred times over the past (almost) 600 pages. When the subforum opens up, this stuff will all be stickied, so it'll hopefully be "problem solved". Also, Eshlow has research and scientific articles to back up almost everything that he says in this thread; so arguing with him on the basis of "some guy on reddit did this and..." is a lot like trying to box someone who's holding a gun to your head.


Again, I don't see where I've argued at all. In fact, right in my original post I even said that I was looking for clarification based on that reddit guys post.

Why does everyone here assume I'm arguing lol? Is it really not visible from my posts that I was just asking? Maybe next time, just for TL, I'll make sure to write "Hey not arguing, I just want to ask questions".
Energies
Profile Blog Joined September 2003
Australia3225 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-17 02:26:13
September 17 2011 01:50 GMT
#11812
Lol, my left leg is bigger than that dude, If I stop drinking and reduce my calories by 500 a day I reckon I could look like that in 12 weeks without changing my exercise routine. The only cardio I currently do is walking from my car to the gym.

In saying that before I gained a lot of muscles mass through my legs and back I also lost weight through the same approach of very low cal and mass cardio, which was significantly more stressful and I didn't look nearly as good.

Edit: Me at 69kg (152lb) - I can't believe I was ever that small. (Dec 2009)
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

I'm now about 80kg (176lb)
"Everybody wanna be a bodybuilder but dont nobody wanna lift no heavy ass weight" - Ronnie Coleman.
shinosai
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1577 Posts
September 17 2011 02:17 GMT
#11813
That guy actually just looks weird to me. He's ripped, but ripped with tiny muscles.... :O This is why no one recommends that skinny fat people cut first.
Be versatile, know when to retreat, and carry a big gun.
XuoriG
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Canada165 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-17 02:19:58
September 17 2011 02:17 GMT
#11814
eshlow! I'd like to know what you think about my situation...

6 months ago while squatting I had a sharp pain in my left upper glute (Really close to lower back, a little to the left)

I stopped squatting for a while, a started back again later, and everything was fine although I still felt some pain sometimes. I Would wake up with some pain there, or just felt tightness.

I worked really hard on my technique because bad technique probably caused this injury. But tonight the same happened, I was squatting my working sets when a really sharp pain happened, same place as before...

I read different things when looking up symptoms, Piriformis Syndrome or sciatica. But the only pain is really in that one small region in my upper left glute. If I massage it with a tennis ball and get to that point its really painful and cant hold it for long.

What do you think that could be ? Im probably gonna go check out the sport medicine office at my university soon.

Thanks in advance!

edit :

Marked the painful region

[image loading]
decafchicken
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
United States20168 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-17 03:30:22
September 17 2011 03:20 GMT
#11815
On September 17 2011 08:47 phyre112 wrote:
Finally got to do some specific position work today at practice; keeping the head up, being quick out of the scrum, and like Decaf said "being completely fearless." Was talked through how offense is supposed to work in Rugby, but I only got about 5 minutes of actually playing it. I'm lost there - all I know is to get to the ball, try to ruck over it, and then see what happens. My defense is coming along, I suppose. I got pretty pissed the last half hour, and started playing like it... but I think that was actually finally me playing correctly. I've never been "angry" about a sport before, but I've only run cross country and played basketball so I guess that makes sense. For the first time in my life, I didn't want to just "play right", I wanted to "beat the other guy." So that was a pretty big mindset change.

Going to the gym tomorrow if I can find the time... Should be a light lift - heavy PC, c&J practice, front squat triples up to a max for the day, and then pullups. I'm bringing a guy with me that's never lifted before, so I think I'll also have to teach him back squat form, hang cleans, and... overhead press? I don't remember what goes with PC in the SS program, but OHP would be a lot easier than waiting for a bench, and having to spot him, and all that crap.


haha yeah offense for newbies is basically "catch ball, run forward, take it into tackle, get rucked over" But yeah rugby is a sport i find i play a lot better when i'm in a state of rage and it helps me out. I need that nice two hours where i can black out on anger and chill out the rest of the week
On September 17 2011 10:44 phyre112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 10:02 HerbalTylenol wrote:
On September 17 2011 09:54 eshlow wrote:

Again,

1. He didn't do JUST cardio. He also lifted weights, albeit in the higher repetition range. As a beginner he is still going to get some hypertrophy off of it, and

2. he ate hypocalorically -- the program recommended for gaining the most muscle is to eat a lot first -- then IF you want to get more ripped you can cut down from there.

If you cannot see the difference between the recommendation made for a certain population, and what this guy did I can't help you. Additionally, just because he cut and tried to add muscle at a moderate weight does not make it evidence.

He could've improved his ability to do these things first by adding more muscle, then cutting down.

If you choose not to believe any of this and do your own thing then go for it. I hope you get the results you want.

I'm done discussing this topic. It's a waste of my time.


You seem to be getting pretty mad at just explaining things. That's fine, you don't need to answer my question. Again, I'm just looking to get clarity and I'm asking questions. If you're getting pissed off at your inability to explain things clearly, then don't waste your time with it.


He could've improved his ability to do these things first by adding more muscle, then cutting down.
That's exactly what I wanted to know. Nowhere did I say I don't believe it. I just wasn't sure whether his way was more efficient or whether lifting and building first then cutting would be better.

So I'll just read up myself why adding more muscle and cutting after would be a quicker way to my goals compared to what this guy did...because asking questions here seems to get grumpy responses.


He's only grumpy because he's explained these things a hundred times over the past (almost) 600 pages. When the subforum opens up, this stuff will all be stickied, so it'll hopefully be "problem solved". Also, Eshlow has research and scientific articles to back up almost everything that he says in this thread; so arguing with him on the basis of "some guy on reddit did this and..." is a lot like trying to box someone who's holding a gun to your head.

I shouldn't be going out tonight, but I am. At least for a little while; team party and all that. I've got to learn some more names. I'll still be up early for ridiculous shit tomorrow, and then up late tomorrow night. I don't think it would be a rugby game without most of the team being hungover, right?


Haha i see you're learning the culture a bit ^_^ Go out to team parties, they are a fucking riot.

On September 17 2011 08:25 AoN.DimSum wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 06:12 decafchicken wrote:
Went to the gym just to watch my roommate, took the day off. This guy in there did a set of SEVEN 100kg snatches off blocks @ ~70-75kg bodyweight.


woah.....whats his name?

My friends from uni came down to my gym today. One of them squatted 230kg at 75ish bw.

Also, my jerk is still ass....so frustrating. I kept missing 115 off blocks today. No clue how I smoked 110 but 115 felt so heavy. I prob should complain about it more in my blog.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=2138688865211 - 110 jerk


Jose Carranza, lifts in texas but used to live here and is in town for a bit
quick google:
With over 12 years of Competitive Olympic Lifting experience, Jose Carranza has been Active nationally in the Olympic Weightlifting world. Holding more than 3 Senior Michigan State records in the Snatch and Clean and Jerk and 5 Junior Michigan State records in Multiple weight categories. He is currently training at the nationally renowned Spoon Barbell Club in Richardson, Texas under Richard Flemming. He is well on his way of achieving his dream to be in the 2016 Olympic Games.
how reasonable is it to eat off wood instead of your tummy?
decafchicken
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
United States20168 Posts
September 17 2011 03:29 GMT
#11816
On September 17 2011 10:04 funkie wrote:
Letter from Raul to his body

Dear body,

Thank you. Thank you always being there, even when bitches wanna bring you down, you are always there to pick me up and lift me with 120kg on my back. For 3 series of 5 reps. I sincerely admire you.

Regards,
Raul.

.


BEAST
how reasonable is it to eat off wood instead of your tummy?
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-17 03:48:56
September 17 2011 03:46 GMT
#11817
SO... went to highschool. Interesting stuff ensued.

Background: school has 2.5k people.

Walk into weights room. Some football team people are there, most are at practice. And then some stupid assholes for the most part. Don't know half of em.

Lifting coach was in there. Didn't really know the guy. Knew he taught weights... in any case.

So I start squatting (110 pounds lol) but he liked my form. He said that was really good, and although he said I was the smallest person to ever be in the weights room (know the guy is real funny) he said I was putting forth good effort. Helped me out. With deadlift pointed out I'm rounding back a little bit.

And in the most awkward thing known to man, guy said 'look, this guy knows what he's doing. WHy don't you guys stop doing bullshit bicep curls and do this..."

And they all just looked, and looked away.

In any case, he said I"m ok to use it whenever it's open for semi public use. Which during football season is not terribly often.

Also said he was a backup for US olympic powerlifting team (now is like 60)

He said he will help me with powercleans too >.>

He too advised me to "eat more stuff"
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
September 17 2011 03:47 GMT
#11818
On September 17 2011 11:17 Rutluv wrote:
eshlow! I'd like to know what you think about my situation...

6 months ago while squatting I had a sharp pain in my left upper glute (Really close to lower back, a little to the left)

I stopped squatting for a while, a started back again later, and everything was fine although I still felt some pain sometimes. I Would wake up with some pain there, or just felt tightness.

I worked really hard on my technique because bad technique probably caused this injury. But tonight the same happened, I was squatting my working sets when a really sharp pain happened, same place as before...

I read different things when looking up symptoms, Piriformis Syndrome or sciatica. But the only pain is really in that one small region in my upper left glute. If I massage it with a tennis ball and get to that point its really painful and cant hold it for long.

What do you think that could be ? Im probably gonna go check out the sport medicine office at my university soon.

Thanks in advance!

edit :

Marked the painful region

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


If that is indeed where the issue is then it may be some type of strain, but that's a big if.

Best to get it checked out by a professional so you can at least get a diagnosis.
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
jjhchsc2
Profile Joined December 2010
Korea (South)2393 Posts
September 17 2011 04:31 GMT
#11819
On September 17 2011 12:46 Froadac wrote:
SO... went to highschool. Interesting stuff ensued.

Background: school has 2.5k people.

Walk into weights room. Some football team people are there, most are at practice. And then some stupid assholes for the most part. Don't know half of em.

Lifting coach was in there. Didn't really know the guy. Knew he taught weights... in any case.

So I start squatting (110 pounds lol) but he liked my form. He said that was really good, and although he said I was the smallest person to ever be in the weights room (know the guy is real funny) he said I was putting forth good effort. Helped me out. With deadlift pointed out I'm rounding back a little bit.

And in the most awkward thing known to man, guy said 'look, this guy knows what he's doing. WHy don't you guys stop doing bullshit bicep curls and do this..."

And they all just looked, and looked away.

In any case, he said I"m ok to use it whenever it's open for semi public use. Which during football season is not terribly often.

Also said he was a backup for US olympic powerlifting team (now is like 60)

He said he will help me with powercleans too >.>

He too advised me to "eat more stuff"


LOL.
Keep up the great work!



And yeah.... cardio seems pretty boring/waste of time unless it's a sport or HIIT.
Lee Ssang/ Lee Shin/ Kim Jung Woo/ Kim Min Chul/Jun Tae Yang/Park Soo Ho/Lee Jung Hoon/Choi Sung Hoon/ Moon Sung Won/Park Ji Soo/ Lee Ho Joon/ Jang Min Chul/ Kim Seung Chul/SaSe/IdrA/Ret Fighting! BW4Life
shinosai
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1577 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-17 05:01:13
September 17 2011 04:37 GMT
#11820
Eshlow, I have a curiosity. Having read an earlier post of yours, you said that lifting weights is the most effective way for people to lose weight. If they are extremely fat, they burn fat in order to fuel muscle building. In another thread on another forum, a person contradicted this for obese people and said this:

"You're confusing apples and oranges. Making strength gains and gaining lean muscle are not synonymous. I never said that obese people can't make strength gains.

But gaining strength does NOT mean someone is putting on lean muscle pounds. Someone who is extremely obese is likely to NOT put on (much if any) lean muscle at first, even though they are making strength gains. The lean muscle they have is being re-purposed, and if they are putting on any muscle in some areas, it's offset losing lean muscle in others. Read the entire series (I think there are 3 articles in the series).

Don't confuse strength gain with adding pounds of muscle - they're not (always) the same - especially for those of us who are (were) obese. "


Who is right, here? I'm just curious if what this person says is true or not.

Also, sorry I'm always bombarding you with questions... You're just so smart!
Be versatile, know when to retreat, and carry a big gun.
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