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Earll
Norway847 Posts
On September 13 2011 18:34 Zafrumi wrote: well then go do that  its not rocket science! eating more than BMR = gain weight. eating less = lose weight.Which is why I am asking about how does one go about losing body fat percentage, not how does one go about losing weight ?=p Since someone at 80kg and 5% body fat and someone at 80kg and 25% body fat is a pretty large difference. | ||
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jjhchsc2
Korea (South)2393 Posts
maybe like you can go 90kg with 15%bf then lose weight/cut down to 87kg with 10%bf? also if you cut too much food then you will most likely lose some muscle mass as well. | ||
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RosaParksStoleMySeat
Japan926 Posts
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Logros
Netherlands9913 Posts
On September 13 2011 18:52 Earll wrote: Which is why I am asking about how does one go about losing body fat percentage, not how does one go about losing weight ?=p Since someone at 80kg and 5% body fat and someone at 80kg and 25% body fat is a pretty large difference. Lifting heavy and getting enough protein is important to keep your muscle mass while dieting down. Besides that there are countless ways you can sort your diet to lose bodyfat (for example leangains which I just started), but it all comes down to eating below your maintenance on average. | ||
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Snapplecakes
Norway78 Posts
On September 13 2011 18:52 Earll wrote: Which is why I am asking about how does one go about losing body fat percentage, not how does one go about losing weight ?=p Since someone at 80kg and 5% body fat and someone at 80kg and 25% body fat is a pretty large difference. when we talk about losing weight here in this thread we obviously mean fat and not fat/muscle combo which is awfull.. first of all, concentrate on gaining mass youre 71kg and you say youre abit skinny fat? then theres oh so much mass you have to gain before even starting to worry about muscle tone on your body which will obviously increase regardless the more mass you gain.. focus on hitting 3500 kcal on workout days for now and close to 2k on off days drink milk if you have to.. when the day comes for you to cut down to desired BF % we can discuss that.. but like the others say, eat less than what you need for maintenance and youll lose fat and not muscle aslong as you keep protein high and keep lifting heavy | ||
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BillClinton
232 Posts
One thing that bothers me, whenever I work out i tend to get easyly the flu. It always starts with a scratchy feeling, the risk is potentially higher when im under stress. The only thing that seems working is a daily high dose of vitamine c (2-3gr). Besides that im eating very healthy and diversified, I also sleep 8-9 hours and am in good shape. I havent tried vitamine d yet, could that really help? I read it might worsen autoimmune deseases. they argue a low vitamine d level is not the cause of a.d., rather vice versa? dont know if i should give it a try | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On September 13 2011 08:40 Soliduok wrote: One thing that often deters me from working out (I used to workout very regularly in highschool) is that I hate the weakness I feel afterwards. You know that shaky feeling in your arm when you just try to lift a glass of water to your mouth? Is there something specific causing this? Do I need to stretch more or hydrate more? That's called fatigue. It's what happens when you workout hard.... You should always drink more water and such though. But generally, if you're doing that much during a workout you may be overdoing it. On September 13 2011 08:46 Velocirapture wrote: I think the soreness etc. is my favorite part lol. Its like a whole day reminder of what a boss you are lol. Don't confuse fatigue and soreness. | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On September 13 2011 09:10 barkles wrote: Did anyone else notice how bullshit the testimonial about how ditching cardio will help you lose weight faster is? Not because of the guy himself, he's a champ for being so dedicated, but the message that is being supported by the argument (cardio<<<weightlifting for losing weight) is flawed. After losing 30 pounds(!) doing only cardio, he noticed it was harder to lose weight. He was reaching a plateau, since I imagine he wasn't varying his workout routine very much, except possibly to add more of the same. Anyone who has ever been a serious athlete in any area can tell you that doing the same thing over and over without change will yield diminishing returns. True progress is made by varying workout type, duration, and intensity. He didn't see a big jump in results because weights are so much better than cardio, but simply because he forced his body to adapt to something new when he switched to lifting weights. The same thing would have happened if he had switched to swimming (from the elliptical workouts he started on). This is the reason that workout programs like P90X work so well for many people: a constantly changing workout routine. Those people who are serious about bodybuilding/powerlifting will know this too: doing exactly the same workouts for more than 4-8 weeks is a very good way to make very little progress. A couple of other concerns I had about the OP, maybe people will help clear these things up for me: 1. The nutritional guide suggests eliminating all dairy from one's diet. For adolescent women (and in fact, many men) this seems like a really, really, fucking stupid idea, since most already struggle to get adequate calcium. I didn't see any mention of calcium supplements anywhere, but even so, getting one's calcium naturally (ie from dairy products) is more efficient and healthier. 2. Should there not be some mention of the dangers of "bonking" or "hitting the wall" made in the OP? Low carbohydrate intake (as is advocated here) throughout the day combined with a workout in the late afternoon or early evening can easily leave the body without enough muscle glycogen to get all the way through the workout. Bonking, for those lucky enough to have not experienced it, is when muscles run out of ready-to-burn fuel in the midst of exercise, blood sugar is low, and the body needs to burn fat or muscle to make sugar to send to the muscles that need it. Out of exercise this process is fine (and obviously losing fat by only lifting weights depends on it!), but during exercise this can make the person exercising feel (among other things) light-headed and nauseated, two things you do not want to be while lifting heavy weights. Also, I'm sure this has been stated many times before in this thread, but since I am always meeting people who don't believe this I will state it again: the only reason to EVER start a low-carb diet is to lose weight. Anyone interested in actually ENHANCING PERFORMANCE should eat a balanced diet in which many of the calories should come from carbohydrates (~50% for strength athletes depending on which part of their training season they are in, and 60-75% for endurance athletes). 0. Weightlifting is > cardio for fat loss. Nutrition is higher up on the spectrum though obviously. 1. Dairy is not recommended to those who are allergic. For those looking to lose weight you can get enough calcium with collard greens (yes, vegetables have a decent amount of calcium). Milk is generally very calorie dense and when you're looking to lose weight it's easy to get too many kcals. 2. Low carb is for those looking to lose weight. Any time you calorically restrict and./or go low carb there is potential for performance decrease. Fortunately, side effects of working out are not serious enough to warrant changes in the the plan because nutrition is the most effective thing for losing the weight -- not working out. 3. No one is disagreeing with the fact that low carb diets are not meant for performance? I know most strength/power athletes can do well with anywhere from about ~20% of carbs to 50% of carbs or so. 50% is on the higher end of the spectrum and definitely not needed up there. Endurance can be anywhere from 40-80% depending on the distance. | ||
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emjaytron
Australia544 Posts
Energy intake < Energy use Where energy use = Work done in exercise (relatively small amount) + Basal Metabolic Rate So raising your BMR is the best way to 'burn' more of your energy intake (and thus store less as fat) Try and think about it this way instead of 'burning fat'. People talk about working out in certain heart rate zones etc to maximize fat oxidation, but personally I think it's either a load of shit, or just not a big enough difference to matter to you and I. Metabolism is always drawing on carbohydrate and fat stores, and to a lesser extent protein, it's just the percentages that fluctuate. The key point that the OP makes is if you just get big strong muscles, you'll lose fat eventually. The reason is just that having more metabolically active muscle adds a big chunk to your BMR. Even while you aren't actually working out your energy requirements will be greater. | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On September 13 2011 09:26 shinosai wrote: Teamliquid, I had a serious pain moment today and I'm trying to figure out if there's a way to fix it. I've been trying to do pullups for a while now, and a friend suggested I tried deadhanging. So for the first time I tried some deadhangs, and after 40 seconds I let go. When I dropped down the front part of my feet felt INTENSE pain. So I tried again and tried to land on my heel, hoping that I wouldn't feel such ridiculous pain in the front part of my feet, only it was even worse. This never happens when I just do pullups, only when I deadhang afterward. It doesn't make any sense to me, I'm just wondering if there's anyway I can land without the pain, or do I need a platform? It's really quite confusing since there shouldn't be that much difference in the drop from a pull up and a deadhang, but apparently there is for me. If your muscles aren't ready for the impact or you land awkwardly you will feel it through your bones all the way up your legs sometimes. Learning to squat well will help because it teaches you how to land from a short drop correctly. Practice jumping up and landing softly (softly being silently into about 1/4 squat) On September 13 2011 11:10 Emporio wrote: I haven't really read anything here except the OP, because I've been remotivated to start exercising and improving my health, and I was wordering what the benefits of cardio are. I've always thought cardio was the best method for weight loss and cardiovascular stamina, but the OP seems to imply it's perfectly fine to do absolutely no cardio at all. Am I wrong in thinking this, or is that simply for the purpose of weight loss and muscle gain? I'd imagine if I want to build endurance for playing sports I would need to do cardio since there's no way I would gain that type of endurance by only lifting. So yeah, I've started up running and gym work again, but because it has been so long since I ever really did any physical exertion, my stamina is pretty atrocious. I can really only run about 3/4 mile before getting completely out of breath and my strength is severly lacking. I have found my current maxes right now, but I don't know how fast to push increases on on either regimen. Thanks guys in advance. Cardio can be effective for weight loss, but really you're burning about 100-150 kcals per mile doing it. So if you're running a light say 10 minute mile for most new people to exercising you're burning at most 60 min/10 min mile = 6 *150 kcals = 900 kcals. As you train more, the body reduces the amount of calories you use to run so it's decreasing gains. In your case where you are out of shape to not even get 1 mile.... 1 lbs of fat is 3600 kcals. So basically if you run 4 times a week you'll be burning just 1 lbs of fat. This is why nutrition is THE MOST important thing for weight loss. You can do 500 kcal deficit per day and lose about 3600 kcals in a week. Weight training, in particular, is useful because it creates the stimulus to build muscle. Muscle is very calorically expensive to build which means if you are on a calorically restricted diet the body can consume the fat for energy to build the muscle. This is why we recommend lifting over cardio for fat loss. Lifting also increases cardiovascular fitness; maybe not as well as cardio or running but that can be done later when you have better work capacity. | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On September 13 2011 14:55 Earll wrote: So I am just sort of curious, to get muscle definition I need to lose bodyfat, but how am I supposed to go about losing bodyfat? At the moment I am at the start of SS and am supposed to eat a shitton to gain muscle, which I am fine with and will do my best to do. But will this also lead to me gaining body fat, or will my size and muscle go up and my body fat decrease? Am I supposed to just F- my bodyfat for now, gain some muscle (How much muscle?) And then later try to go down in body fat %? How would I go about doing that when the time comes then? Eat slightly more than BMR calorically. Body will use extra fat to fuel muscle growth. | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
A. Exercise for weight loss. There are many myths surrounding exercise for weight loss. Here is a general exercise hierarchy chart (assuming you did not read the link above). I. Lifting heavy weights or bodyweight strength training II. Intervals/circuit training III. Light weights = cardio IV. Specific exercises for the body part (e.g. abs exercises for losing abdominal fat). Lifting weights and/or strength training, especially as someone new to exercise provides a stimulus for improving body composition which is gaining muscle mass. The stimulus for muscle mass, especially in a caloric deficit, pulls a lot of energy from the fat mass which improves both body composition and reduces the amount of fat in the body. This is why high intensity exercise such as weight lifting, intervals, and circuit training are superior to light weights and cardio. This is also a carryover from the training thread, but it also addresses this topic. Why not cardio? Why not lots of reps for toning? + Show Spoiler + Good questions. If you skipped over the link in the beginning read it now: >> First, a quick reminder or lesson on how exercise and nutrition affect each other. READ THIS SERIOUSLY... I keep linking it because it tells you about how the body works. Cardio Cardio at its heart is a very weak at best at stimulating fat loss. For newer people to exercise, especially those looking to burn fat, cardio is very ineffective. You'll burn maybe 200-300 kcals per mile of exercise at best. Compare this to 3600 kcals in 1 lbs of fat we see at best you'll have to be running 12-18 miles just to burn one pound of fat. As a beginner even a couple miles is daunting, and people are expected to do at least this much for 1 lbs of fat? This is why losing weight is done in the kitchen. There's a lot of pervasive myths in the fitness industry but when they say that "abs are made in the kitchen" that is actually true. Weight training provides a stimulus for building muscle. Muscle is very hard to build because it requires lots of calories to actually build the muscle. If diet is strictly controlled, the body derives its energy from burning your fat mass to build the muscle. So in effect, you can "build muscle" and "lose fat" at the same time. (The caveat is that there is diminishing returns the leaner you get). Therefore, for newer people looking to lose fat it is advisable to lift heavy weights and make sure your nutrition is in order. Weights are superior over cardio (which is about 15-20% of the equation), and nutrition makes up the rest (which is about 80-85% of the equation) in losing weight. Don't get me wrong, cardio can be used effectively in some populations. However, for the average person looking to lose fat and/or gain muscle this is not one of them. Light weights and high repetitions for toning Toning is bullshit. What does it mean anyway to look more toned or defined? Light weights high repetitions for toning is a huge myth that is pervasive in the fitness industry. When you boil it down to the facts, "toning" just means you want to lose fat (to see your muscles) and/or make your muscles bigger. So basically when you say you want to "tone" you want to gain muscle and/or lose fat. 1. High repetitions works endurance. It does not put on muscle mass. Strike one. 2. High repetitions does not burn much fat. Just like cardio doesn't. Strike two. 3. There is no such thing as spot reduction. That is to say that doing endless amounts of situps does not make your abs more defined. You have to put sufficient stress on a muscle to get it to grow. That is much easier done with heavy weights in the 5-8 repetition range (which, incidentally, is about the best repetition range for hypertrophy). If you thought light weights and high repetitions was going to lose you fat mass you're sorely mistaken. If an hours or two of cardio burns less than a pound of fat mass, how do you think that a 30 minute workout of light weights and high repetitions (which is essentially what cardio is for the legs) is going to burn any significant amount of fat mass? Therefore, for newer people looking to lose fat it is advisable to lift heavy weights and make sure your nutrition is in order. Weights are superior over cardio (which is about 15-20% of the equation), and nutrition makes up the rest (which is about 80-85% of the equation) in losing weight. Finally, "spot reduction" of fat does not occur.** Abs exercises may help increase your abdominal muscle mass if they are difficult enough, but your body does not lose specific abdominal fat. To lose fat your body takes it from all over the body when losing weight. Therefore, abdominal exercises are not very good for losing weight in the abdomen. If you feel like adding them AFTER fixing your nutrition and training feel free though. **Spot reduction has been shown to occur in very obese populations (>30%+ body fat percentage); however, at lower body fat percentages at where people are trying to see visible abs, glutes, legs, arms, etc. it does not work significantly to warrant performing these types of exercises. | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On September 13 2011 22:12 BillClinton wrote: I appreciate this thread, keep going.. One thing that bothers me, whenever I work out i tend to get easyly the flu. It always starts with a scratchy feeling, the risk is potentially higher when im under stress. The only thing that seems working is a daily high dose of vitamine c (2-3gr). Besides that im eating very healthy and diversified, I also sleep 8-9 hours and am in good shape. I havent tried vitamine d yet, could that really help? I read it might worsen autoimmune deseases. they argue a low vitamine d level is not the cause of a.d., rather vice versa? dont know if i should give it a try Vitamin D, yeah. http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2009/10/a-closer-look-at-vitamin-d/ Take 20,000-30,000 IU when you're starting to feel the effects of being sick. If you're deficient you should be taking 5-10k IU per day until you're up around 50-80ng/mL Getting outside is better than supplementing though..... | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On September 13 2011 12:37 Froadac wrote: Ate egg. Got reprimanded for high cholesterol. That sucks. Recently compiled specifically on eggs and cholesterol for the new post: So going back to specifically something like eggs which have a bunch of cholesterol and fat in them: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18991244 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21776466 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19369056 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21134328 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15164336 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18991244 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18203890 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17531457 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16340654 | ||
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
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sJarl
Iceland1699 Posts
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Zafrumi
Switzerland1272 Posts
On September 13 2011 22:36 eshlow wrote: Cardio can be effective for weight loss, but really you're burning about 100-150 kcals per mile doing it. So if you're running a light say 10 minute mile for most new people to exercising you're burning at most 60 min/10 min mile = 6 *150 kcals = 900 kcals. As you train more, the body reduces the amount of calories you use to run so it's decreasing gains. In your case where you are out of shape to not even get 1 mile.... 1 lbs of fat is 3600 kcals. So basically if you run 4 times a week you'll be burning just 1 lbs of fat. This is why nutrition is THE MOST important thing for weight loss. You can do 500 kcal deficit per day and lose about 3600 kcals in a week. Weight training, in particular, is useful because it creates the stimulus to build muscle. Muscle is very calorically expensive to build which means if you are on a calorically restricted diet the body can consume the fat for energy to build the muscle. This is why we recommend lifting over cardio for fat loss. Lifting also increases cardiovascular fitness; maybe not as well as cardio or running but that can be done later when you have better work capacity. I'm curious: lets say I do a regular SS workout (squat/bench/dl) at fairly heavy weights, does that really burn more calores than the cardio I could do in the same amount of time? 900kcal per hour doesnt sound so bad to be honest. I have no idea how many calories I burn in a good lifting session i've also read in a local paper that running is better to reduce abdominal fat than weightlifting. sadly, the paper did not cite the exact study (it just said that it was a study done by the Duke University Medical Center published in the «American Journal of Physiology») nor what kind of running/weightlifting the subjects were doing. but I have a friend who is sort of a cardio freak and he doesnt believe me when I tell him that cardio (or any exercise really) actually does not have that much of an impact on weight loss here is the article (in german): http://blog.tagesanzeiger.ch/outdoor/index.php/12620/sportliche-verwirrung-ums-bauchfett/ PS: yeah eshlow never apologize for enlightening us | ||
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sJarl
Iceland1699 Posts
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
On September 13 2011 22:50 Zafrumi wrote: I'm curious: lets say I do a regular SS workout (squat/bench/dl) at fairly heavy weights, does that really burn more calores than the cardio I could do in the same amount of time? 900kcal per hour doesnt sound so bad to be honest. I have no idea how many calories I burn in a good lifting session i've also read in a local paper that running is better to reduce abdominal fat than weightlifting. sadly, the paper did not cite the exact study (it just said that it was a study done by the Duke University Medical Center published in the «American Journal of Physiology») nor what kind of running/weightlifting the subjects were doing. but I have a friend who is sort of a cardio freak and he doesnt believe me when I tell him that cardio (or any exercise really) actually does not have that much of an impact on weight loss here is the article (in german): http://blog.tagesanzeiger.ch/outdoor/index.php/12620/sportliche-verwirrung-ums-bauchfett/ PS: yeah eshlow never apologize for enlightening us Amount of calories burned lifting in the same amount of time as cardio is maybe 300-400 at best. It's the stimulus to build muscle that uses more calories.... High intensity exercise (whether it's lifting heavy weights, running intervals, etc.) where there's a stimulus for muscle is always going to "summation" burn more calories than lower intensity exercise such as cardio. I may look up some studies later to support this but as of now I don't feel like it. Also for that study: the resistance group did 3 sets of 8-12 reps of 8 exercises, 3 times per week. That's less than 20 minutes of actual lifting per session, or less than 1 hour/week of actual effort. Contrast the aerobic group, which did 12 miles of running per week at 75% peak VO2max. 75% VO2Max is far harder than any "jogger" is jogging, and I guarantee that they weren't running 12 miles in an hour, either. So they compared a small amount of resistance exercise to a much larger amount of aerobic exercise at a much greater intensity than commonly practiced, and concluded the second was superior. Link to original paper: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21846904 "For subjects randomized to RT, the ramp period began with one set during Weeks 1-2, two sets during Weeks 3-4, building up to the prescribed three sets on Week 5. RT subjects were prescribed three sessions per week (on non-consecutive days) of three sets of 8-12 repetitions on eight Cybex weight lifting machines designed to target all major muscle groups. Throughout the training intervention, the amount of weight lifted was increased by five pounds each time the participant performed 12 repetitions with proper form on all three sets on two consecutive workout sessions to insure a progressive resistance training stimulus." Basically, the results are what they are because of what they are... cardio group got a lot more work and a relatively intense pace (anaerobic threshold is normally about 60% or so in untrained... they ran them at 75% vo2max). I would like to see some serious lifting routine like SS for beginners compared to a traditional cardio routine. | ||
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Zafrumi
Switzerland1272 Posts
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