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TL Health and Fitness Initiative 2011 - Page 564

Forum Index > Sports
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decafchicken
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
United States20168 Posts
September 09 2011 19:14 GMT
#11261
On September 10 2011 04:11 Earll wrote:
O shii.. Ordered my membership to gym today\am a gym member and will start going tomorrow I guess. Have no Idea wtf to do or how to do it though so will have to read lots today\tomorrow I guess. The gym is a pretty low on staff though, and I am going alone, so I will probably be 100% alone with this workout and I have never done any form of barbell workout before\have never even touched a barbell before. will I kill myself? : D


Haha no you'll be fine. Just read the wiki, watch some youtube videos, and you'll be fine. let us know if you have any questions
how reasonable is it to eat off wood instead of your tummy?
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
September 09 2011 19:16 GMT
#11262
On September 10 2011 03:26 Velocirapture wrote:
A lot of people on here seem to believe protein supplements should be avoided if possible (only used if you can't meet your daily requirements for Cal and protein) but my PT advises me that I should have 30g of protein within 30min of completing my workout. While I can get all the protein and Cal I need from regular food, most protein requires preparation and in order to meet that time frame I use a supplement powder. Just figured id put that little bit o' info out there.


I don't see anyone on here who said protein supplements should be avoided.

I see people on here who said you should try to get all your protein mostly from real food. However, if you can't get enough protein from real foods alone protein powders are a good option.

Eating real food within 30 mins of workout is nearly the same as eating protein powder post workout. In fact, whole choco milk tends to consistently outperform most post workout supplementations anyway..... (remember whole choco milk gives protein, carbs, and fat and is easily digestible).


On September 10 2011 02:02 Mementoss wrote:
After performing squats my lower back feels tight, (like similar to after doing deadlifts). Is this normal? It isn't bugging me and goes away quickly after (by end of workout). Maybe it could be because im squatting low bar too low? Or leaning too far forward? Any help with this would be appreciated.


What kind of tight?

Blood filled "tight" like forearms get tight after doing a lot of grip intensive work is OK.

Tight as in the muscles were worked is fine.

Tight as in the muscles almost strained, usually because of bad form is bad.

Tight as in the joints feel like they are 'icky' isn't good either.
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
Velocirapture
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States983 Posts
September 09 2011 19:21 GMT
#11263
On September 10 2011 04:06 phyre112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2011 03:26 Velocirapture wrote:
A lot of people on here seem to believe protein supplements should be avoided if possible (only used if you can't meet your daily requirements for Cal and protein) but my PT advises me that I should have 30g of protein within 30min of completing my workout. While I can get all the protein and Cal I need from regular food, most protein requires preparation and in order to meet that time frame I use a supplement powder. Just figured id put that little bit o' info out there.


Broscience, I do believe. If you workout fasted, there's an advantage to taking a pre-workout drink, usually something based around bcaas for the quick absorption. If you don't workout fasted (for example I like to way three hours before workout) then you are still digesting food, and there are plenty of amino acids in your bloodstream. Just make sure that you do eventually eat something before you go to bed, because i'm sure a pre workout meal doesn't have ALL your calories.


Broscience seems a little strong a term . Most fitness claims like the ones he makes are the product of numerous case studies and common sense science. The man is fully educated and accredited so im inclined to believe its not pulled out of his ass.

That being said my degree is in molecular bio not anatomy and physiology so I am forced to defer to his greater experience. I would imagine that the timing of nutritional intake should matter somewhat from what I know (the entire digestion process is quite long and food does not act as an 8 hour time release capsule of energy) but the specifics as far as its interaction with muscle growth and exercise (chronologically) were not part of my eduction.
Zafrumi
Profile Joined June 2009
Switzerland1272 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 19:48:19
September 09 2011 19:47 GMT
#11264
I believe there is an advantage to eating protein within 30 minutes after your workout, but its negligible (like 1-2%). I think eshlow linked a study once or something?

@Earll: way to go man! I would LOVE to have a gym for myself no people to annoy me!
"Strong people are harder to kill than weak people and more useful in general" -Mark Rippetoe
phyre112
Profile Joined August 2009
United States3090 Posts
September 09 2011 19:53 GMT
#11265
1. Google a pic and mark where it hurts.
[image loading]

Red marks the site that is most often a problem - anywhere between those two lines. Orange marks where the "shooting" pains are when I try to perform a bench pressing motion.

2. What exercises hurt? Which shoulder articulations hurt?
http://www.exrx.net/Articulations/Shoulder.html

I think I answered this. Only horizontal pressing- similar to the bench press. Rowing is fine, vertical pressing or pulling (up or down) is fine. Swinging the arms up, as would be done in a snatch actually feels -good-. Any rotation is fine.

3. What type of pain is it? Burning? Ache? Tingling? Sharp?
Consistently, a burning sensation. More intense as the arms are extended forward (it's worse typing than hanging by my side walking, for example.) If I try to actually make a pressing motion (quick forward extension) it's a sharp pain across the area marked orange in the picture (front delt)

4. What would you rate the pain at on a 0/10 scale? 0 being no pain, 10 being go to the emergency room. The burning, a one or a two. The shooting extension makes me wince; it's worse in the mornings then gets better as the day goes on. Probably a 5 in the mornings? I'm pretty bad with pain; I was hospitalized around 9 years old with several record-size (for the hospital) kidney stones, and since then nothing much has hurt "a lot". I would have called those an 8 or 9?

5. Acute or chronic (chronic more than ~4 weeks)? What date was onset? How has the pain improved since the initial injury?
I think I answered this. It's become more constant and more serious since I initially "over stressed" (I think that was the problem) the shoulder in mid august, one month ago. It's only recently (within a week or so) become a constant thing.

6. Have you been training through pain? If so, how long?
Extremely limited bench press. Once a week or so, and that hasn't bothered it. I haven't benched since last week when it started to become a real problem.

7. How deep is the pain? Is it more superficial tissues? Or does it seem to be more inside or around the joint? Describe it.
Definitely inside and around the joint for the ache/burn. The shooting pain feels to be in the muscle above the joint.

8. What have you been doing for recovery purposes?
Decreased workload, Ice, advil/aleive. I find it helps as well when I walk with better posture - shoulders back. I've been working on that all summer, and it's becoming a natural thing for me.

9. What seems to help? What seems to make it worse? Is it constant? Does it increase/decrease with certain activities?
The weight involved in the pressing motion has no effect. there is almost constant low-level burning, but only to the point I notice it if I have nothing else to do. Better posture helps. Ice helps temporarily. Stretching the shoulder as would be done in a snatch helps. Massage of the muscle (front delt) in the mornings helps.

10. Check the tissue quality of the surrounding muscles. Which ones are tight? Which ones are tender? Is there any swelling?
No tightness or tenderness at the moment. A little soreness in the traps from yesterday's workout/rugby, but that seems to be unrelated.

11. How does it feel after exercise (if any)? How does it feel at the beginning of the day? How about the end of the day?
Significantly worse in the mornings than at night. Other than shooting pain during the bench motion, no effect from a workout - neither better or worse immediately after setting down the weight.

12. Any previous injury history?
Not to the shoulder area.

13. How's your posture?
Quite good now, having worked on it seriously for several months. Both in the lower and upper back, although it was bad throughout my childhood and teenage years.

14. What is your current workout routine for that bodypart? Do you play any sports?
During the initial stress, 4x bench/week. Afterwards, I was Barbell benching 1x/week, and DB benching on a slight incline 1x/week. In addition, Push presses 2x/week, I've just started practicing jerks 2x/week (same time the pain started to get worse, but jerks themself don't bother it). Rows 2x/week, chinups 2x/week, pc 2x/week, pullups 1x/week, deadlifts 1x/week. Rugby started three days ago, prior to that no sports for the last four months.

15. Any other information I should be aware of or that comes to mind that may help?
I have a prednisone prescription I was just given after a bee sting. I took one tablet two weeks ago, but was then advised not to continue taking it, because there was not a serious reaction to the bee sting, only a mild one. I still have 9 10mg tablets that were not used.

Also I am apparently mildly allergic to bee stings.
phyre112
Profile Joined August 2009
United States3090 Posts
September 09 2011 19:58 GMT
#11266
On September 10 2011 04:21 Velocirapture wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2011 04:06 phyre112 wrote:
On September 10 2011 03:26 Velocirapture wrote:
A lot of people on here seem to believe protein supplements should be avoided if possible (only used if you can't meet your daily requirements for Cal and protein) but my PT advises me that I should have 30g of protein within 30min of completing my workout. While I can get all the protein and Cal I need from regular food, most protein requires preparation and in order to meet that time frame I use a supplement powder. Just figured id put that little bit o' info out there.


Broscience, I do believe. If you workout fasted, there's an advantage to taking a pre-workout drink, usually something based around bcaas for the quick absorption. If you don't workout fasted (for example I like to way three hours before workout) then you are still digesting food, and there are plenty of amino acids in your bloodstream. Just make sure that you do eventually eat something before you go to bed, because i'm sure a pre workout meal doesn't have ALL your calories.


Broscience seems a little strong a term . Most fitness claims like the ones he makes are the product of numerous case studies and common sense science. The man is fully educated and accredited so im inclined to believe its not pulled out of his ass.

That being said my degree is in molecular bio not anatomy and physiology so I am forced to defer to his greater experience. I would imagine that the timing of nutritional intake should matter somewhat from what I know (the entire digestion process is quite long and food does not act as an 8 hour time release capsule of energy) but the specifics as far as its interaction with muscle growth and exercise (chronologically) were not part of my eduction.


I'm only repeating leangains information. I'll see if I can find the article, but I remember the argument being that there was a very limited (not statistically significant) increase in muscle synthesis with a POST workout shake, but that it was very important (statistically significant) to have some amino acids available to the body before and during the workout. It's pre-WO that's critical, not post.

Also, I don't think anyone is outright arguing that protein shakes are useless. I take them myself on days where I find myself strapped for time, or on particularly hard days where I think it will help my recovery. But most of the time, I think it's superior to get your protein from real food sources (meat, fish, eggs).
Mementoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada2595 Posts
September 09 2011 20:00 GMT
#11267
On September 10 2011 03:26 Velocirapture wrote:

Show nested quote +
On September 10 2011 02:02 Mementoss wrote:
After performing squats my lower back feels tight, (like similar to after doing deadlifts). Is this normal? It isn't bugging me and goes away quickly after (by end of workout). Maybe it could be because im squatting low bar too low? Or leaning too far forward? Any help with this would be appreciated.


What kind of tight?

Blood filled "tight" like forearms get tight after doing a lot of grip intensive work is OK.

Tight as in the muscles were worked is fine.

Tight as in the muscles almost strained, usually because of bad form is bad.

Tight as in the joints feel like they are 'icky' isn't good either.


Tight as in muscles were worked or blood filled seems like it and since that is fine I guess IM good thanks for the response
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu96xMwFVXw
phyre112
Profile Joined August 2009
United States3090 Posts
September 09 2011 20:02 GMT
#11268
On September 10 2011 05:00 Mementoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2011 03:26 Velocirapture wrote:

On September 10 2011 02:02 Mementoss wrote:
After performing squats my lower back feels tight, (like similar to after doing deadlifts). Is this normal? It isn't bugging me and goes away quickly after (by end of workout). Maybe it could be because im squatting low bar too low? Or leaning too far forward? Any help with this would be appreciated.


What kind of tight?

Blood filled "tight" like forearms get tight after doing a lot of grip intensive work is OK.

Tight as in the muscles were worked is fine.

Tight as in the muscles almost strained, usually because of bad form is bad.

Tight as in the joints feel like they are 'icky' isn't good either.


Tight as in muscles were worked or blood filled seems like it and since that is fine I guess IM good thanks for the response


I actually get that feeling when I do heavy squats correctly. Definitely the best body part to have a pump in, IMO.
Catch
Profile Joined September 2010
United States616 Posts
September 09 2011 20:06 GMT
#11269
@Snapplecakes

You were just on martins twitter lol

http://twitter.com/#!/Martinberkhan

It's the first one. Don't know how to directly link to it
Victory Loves Preparation
BouBou.865
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands814 Posts
September 09 2011 20:06 GMT
#11270
We should totally have a 'workout tips' thread when we get our forum. Total mindsplosion of the week: When squatting, put your arms nice and wide, get in position but without actually putting the bar on you, and then slide your hands as close to your neck as you can and lift your ellbows. HOLY SHIT your upper back is tight, you barely feel the bar, squatting is ezpz. Takes 20 pounds of the bar I swear.
Playing League of Legends. IGN: Plain Skill
funkie
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Venezuela9377 Posts
September 09 2011 20:15 GMT
#11271
so.

Squat up from 102kg (steadly) to 115kg without a problem.

Deadlift from 120kg to 135kg without a problem.

I'll do some powerCleans today to see how Much I can do while doing singles. .

true story: I pushed a guy twice my size. He ended up on the ground and this look on his face O.O.

TL Health & Fitness attacks!
It si highly effective!
TL Health & Fitness Wins!.

CJ Entusman #6! · Strength is the basis of athletic ability. -Rippetoe /* http://j.mp/TL-App <- TL iPhone App 2.0! */
Zafrumi
Profile Joined June 2009
Switzerland1272 Posts
September 09 2011 20:34 GMT
#11272
On September 10 2011 05:06 Catch wrote:
@Snapplecakes

You were just on martins twitter lol

http://twitter.com/#!/Martinberkhan

It's the first one. Don't know how to directly link to it


lol awesome! so martin still skims this thread. nice to know
"Strong people are harder to kill than weak people and more useful in general" -Mark Rippetoe
Malinor
Profile Joined November 2008
Germany4758 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 21:10:06
September 09 2011 21:09 GMT
#11273
Jump Robe: Performed my first double-unders today, I feel like a king. Only thing left is cross-overs, all the other 'standard-moves' I can do (more or less). The progression really is tons of fun, but damn, that training is taxing. Also went running 48min today and 25 minutes on the Elliptical. No wonder actually that my squat is stalling. But something's gotta give.
"Withstand. Suffer. Live as you must now live. There will, one day, be answer to this." ||| "A life, Jimmy, you know what that is? It's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come."
Earll
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Norway847 Posts
September 09 2011 21:41 GMT
#11274
Is it important to get shoes 'specialized' for weight lifting? And will my local sports retailer know what I should have to some extent?
Wat
glurio
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany597 Posts
September 09 2011 21:55 GMT
#11275
Get shoes with flat soles, chucks or cheap copys.
Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you're right. - Henry Ford
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
September 09 2011 22:07 GMT
#11276
On September 10 2011 04:53 phyre112 wrote:
1. Google a pic and mark where it hurts.
[image loading]

Red marks the site that is most often a problem - anywhere between those two lines. Orange marks where the "shooting" pains are when I try to perform a bench pressing motion.

+ Show Spoiler +
2. What exercises hurt? Which shoulder articulations hurt?
http://www.exrx.net/Articulations/Shoulder.html

I think I answered this. Only horizontal pressing- similar to the bench press. Rowing is fine, vertical pressing or pulling (up or down) is fine. Swinging the arms up, as would be done in a snatch actually feels -good-. Any rotation is fine.

3. What type of pain is it? Burning? Ache? Tingling? Sharp?
Consistently, a burning sensation. More intense as the arms are extended forward (it's worse typing than hanging by my side walking, for example.) If I try to actually make a pressing motion (quick forward extension) it's a sharp pain across the area marked orange in the picture (front delt)

4. What would you rate the pain at on a 0/10 scale? 0 being no pain, 10 being go to the emergency room. The burning, a one or a two. The shooting extension makes me wince; it's worse in the mornings then gets better as the day goes on. Probably a 5 in the mornings? I'm pretty bad with pain; I was hospitalized around 9 years old with several record-size (for the hospital) kidney stones, and since then nothing much has hurt "a lot". I would have called those an 8 or 9?

5. Acute or chronic (chronic more than ~4 weeks)? What date was onset? How has the pain improved since the initial injury?
I think I answered this. It's become more constant and more serious since I initially "over stressed" (I think that was the problem) the shoulder in mid august, one month ago. It's only recently (within a week or so) become a constant thing.

6. Have you been training through pain? If so, how long?
Extremely limited bench press. Once a week or so, and that hasn't bothered it. I haven't benched since last week when it started to become a real problem.

7. How deep is the pain? Is it more superficial tissues? Or does it seem to be more inside or around the joint? Describe it.
Definitely inside and around the joint for the ache/burn. The shooting pain feels to be in the muscle above the joint.

8. What have you been doing for recovery purposes?
Decreased workload, Ice, advil/aleive. I find it helps as well when I walk with better posture - shoulders back. I've been working on that all summer, and it's becoming a natural thing for me.

9. What seems to help? What seems to make it worse? Is it constant? Does it increase/decrease with certain activities?
The weight involved in the pressing motion has no effect. there is almost constant low-level burning, but only to the point I notice it if I have nothing else to do. Better posture helps. Ice helps temporarily. Stretching the shoulder as would be done in a snatch helps. Massage of the muscle (front delt) in the mornings helps.

10. Check the tissue quality of the surrounding muscles. Which ones are tight? Which ones are tender? Is there any swelling?
No tightness or tenderness at the moment. A little soreness in the traps from yesterday's workout/rugby, but that seems to be unrelated.

11. How does it feel after exercise (if any)? How does it feel at the beginning of the day? How about the end of the day?
Significantly worse in the mornings than at night. Other than shooting pain during the bench motion, no effect from a workout - neither better or worse immediately after setting down the weight.

12. Any previous injury history?
Not to the shoulder area.

13. How's your posture?
Quite good now, having worked on it seriously for several months. Both in the lower and upper back, although it was bad throughout my childhood and teenage years.

14. What is your current workout routine for that bodypart? Do you play any sports?
During the initial stress, 4x bench/week. Afterwards, I was Barbell benching 1x/week, and DB benching on a slight incline 1x/week. In addition, Push presses 2x/week, I've just started practicing jerks 2x/week (same time the pain started to get worse, but jerks themself don't bother it). Rows 2x/week, chinups 2x/week, pc 2x/week, pullups 1x/week, deadlifts 1x/week. Rugby started three days ago, prior to that no sports for the last four months.

15. Any other information I should be aware of or that comes to mind that may help?
I have a prednisone prescription I was just given after a bee sting. I took one tablet two weeks ago, but was then advised not to continue taking it, because there was not a serious reaction to the bee sting, only a mild one. I still have 9 10mg tablets that were not used.

Also I am apparently mildly allergic to bee stings.


Hmmm. No click or grinding?

The ache more in the morning tends to indicate probably a joint or tendon issue although I wouldn't rule out bursa. Can't think of a tendon that would be aggravated by just that motion though. Additionally, if you can overhead press fine it's not something like impingement either.

Deep means it may be capsular, joint related. Maybe rotator cuff tendon, potentially such as subscap but that would usually hurt with internal rotation (albeit since pecs, and lats are IRs they can take over if that's the one that's actually hurt).

Got me kinda stumped here... I wish I could do some more specific tests. Probably best at this point to see an orthopedic doc or physical therapist ify ou can get to one IMO.
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
Snapplecakes
Profile Joined May 2011
Norway78 Posts
September 09 2011 22:56 GMT
#11277
haha thats cool!

nice to know he read it :D
SQUATS AND OATS!
BouBou.865
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands814 Posts
September 09 2011 23:39 GMT
#11278
Gratz Snappecakes! :D

In other news, the new baller me is 99% he's getting laid on sunday, she was rubbing my crotch at the goodnight kiss like there's no tomorrow. She's coming over to cook a meal and 'watch a movie' on sunday. I workout mo/wed/fri normally, anything I can do to ensure optimal hotbodyness? Like anything I should do/ávoid doing to show off my abs and shit?

Never figured I'd ask you guys for this kind of advice, but it follows like a law of physics after doing SS and drinking my milk.
Playing League of Legends. IGN: Plain Skill
Earll
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Norway847 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 23:44:07
September 09 2011 23:40 GMT
#11279
Rapidly falling in love with this thread. Is there\was there a subforum coming? Ok anyway I think I have sort of figured out what I believe to be a good route for me to take right now at least. I'll start off doing the Original novice starting strength program tomorrow (

Workout A
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift

Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Press
5x3 Power Cleans

)
And I guess just go AxBxAx ? Would it be a bad idea to just go AxBxAxBxAx continually? Guess I can throw in an extra rest day after every other A. Should I fully rest on the x days though, or would I see improved results by doing cardio (say something like doing p90x's Kenpo X or Jump Training some other program towards cardio) on 3 of the 'off'days a week? or do I 'need' to rest those days?

As for diet I am thinking that the LeanGains fasting diet (16 fast 8 eat) seems like a good idea. Wake up in the morning at 8 am and go to 'work', get off at 3 pm and go directly to gym to work out, then get home and eat first meal at like 4~30 pm, next somewhere in the middle, and then last meal at around 12, right before bed. I am thinking I will stick to the Paleo diet, and probably have the 3 meals I eat after work out to be 200gram minced meat and fruits and vegetables (which is pretty much my current diet, but a bit more.) The meat would add up to like 140~g protein a day I think. so think that should have me sort of covered for proteins, might get some whey if I figure out i need more\have trouble eating this much at the end of the day.

As far as I can tell though I should invest in BCAA to take 10grams pre work out every day. ( http://gymgrossisten.no/6/no/artiklar/aminosyrer-6/bcaa/index.html I'll buy from here I guess, caution: Norwegian, but the important parts should be understandable for anyone I guess =p) Does it matter what I get though, or is just anything that says BCAA ok?

I am sort of thinking maybe Leangains might not be for me as I am a relative novice level in lifting\whatever, but then again I figure if its beneficial at one level of training I don't see why it wouldnt be at a lower level. So that is probably what i will go ahead with now unless someone wiser has any objects, leaving me with the main 2 questions of should I\can I\ will i see better results with doing cardio on the non SS days, and what BCAA do I get.

Tomorrow i'll read up on the squats\deadlifts\bench press and take it from there : D

edit:


On September 10 2011 08:39 BouBou.865 wrote:
Gratz Snappecakes! :D

In other news, the new baller me is 99% he's getting laid on sunday, she was rubbing my crotch at the goodnight kiss like there's no tomorrow. She's coming over to cook a meal and 'watch a movie' on sunday. I workout mo/wed/fri normally, anything I can do to ensure optimal hotbodyness? Like anything I should do/ávoid doing to show off my abs and shit?

Never figured I'd ask you guys for this kind of advice, but it follows like a law of physics after doing SS and drinking my milk.


Don't Bodybuilders dehydrate themselves in various ways a few days\a day before competitions, to make their muscles more prominent or whatever? ;P

(That is obviously\probably not a good idea though, I mean when your shirt is off you are pretty much home free anyway.)
Wat
Hurricane
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States3939 Posts
September 09 2011 23:55 GMT
#11280
I killed it yesterday, I still have trouble standing up, work was hell.

Squat is up to 255 and DL up to 295 though, I fucking love deadlift days.
RIP CHARLIEMURPHY 11/25/10 NEVER FORGET | Hurricane#1183 @ B.net
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