On August 28 2011 18:05 exShikari wrote: I am genuinely at a loss as to why this thread is called the Health & Fitness initiative. I would rename it the bulking up thread. There's more to fitness than the size of your muscles -.-
If you read the OP, you will find a lot about nutrition, gymnastics and miscellaneous stuff (sleeping etc.) in there also. This thread has mainly developed into a Weightlifting thread, which is a little bit unfortunate and the reason why we are trying to get a sub-forum, where we can split stuff up into running, lifting, gymnastics, whatever your heart desires basically.
edit: I was surprised there is nothing about injuries/injury-prevention in our OP, or maybe I am just blind...
Besides that, I feel that a lot of the stuff you have posted on the last page seems questionable or even flat out wrong to me (and I don't say that because I believe that lifting heavy weights is the only way to achieve health and fitness). ==> Cardio helping with Pull-Ups? Only in the sense that if you lose 5kg by doing cardio those Pull-Ups will get easier.
Cardio helps with everything man, everything. I did read the OP which was fine, but yeah this is definitely a weight-lifting thread not a fitness thread which is why I questioned it. Sub-forums would be a good idea.
How does cardio help with pullups?
Studies would be useful, preferably.
I can show how weight lifting helps with running. Can you do the opposite?
Cardio helps with pullups by speeding recovery, if done right. 20 easy min 3x/week sorta deal.
Do I get a prize?
Now can you show me any world class runners who use weight training? And please, endurance only. I think that's what the guy was referring to.
No, you don't get a prize because you haven't proven anything. Prove to me how the physiological adaptations obtained from cardio help to improve pullups.
I asked for studies of which I can provide for athletes in phases of endurance training the benefit of strength work:
You see, I can find studies that prove that strength work supports cardiovascular adaptations. However, you will have lots of trouble reliably proving the opposite.
Ok. I'm not going to provide studies because I really can't be bothered right now (just finished work and it's nearly 6am ) but I'll dig some up if you really want.
If you knew anything at all about human biology you would know that the longer your body can utilise aerobic respiration to synthesise ATP the better. And guess what doing cardio does? Increases the aerobic threshold. Mind = blown.
On August 28 2011 18:05 exShikari wrote: I am genuinely at a loss as to why this thread is called the Health & Fitness initiative. I would rename it the bulking up thread. There's more to fitness than the size of your muscles -.-
If you read the OP, you will find a lot about nutrition, gymnastics and miscellaneous stuff (sleeping etc.) in there also. This thread has mainly developed into a Weightlifting thread, which is a little bit unfortunate and the reason why we are trying to get a sub-forum, where we can split stuff up into running, lifting, gymnastics, whatever your heart desires basically.
edit: I was surprised there is nothing about injuries/injury-prevention in our OP, or maybe I am just blind...
Besides that, I feel that a lot of the stuff you have posted on the last page seems questionable or even flat out wrong to me (and I don't say that because I believe that lifting heavy weights is the only way to achieve health and fitness). ==> Cardio helping with Pull-Ups? Only in the sense that if you lose 5kg by doing cardio those Pull-Ups will get easier.
Cardio helps with everything man, everything. I did read the OP which was fine, but yeah this is definitely a weight-lifting thread not a fitness thread which is why I questioned it. Sub-forums would be a good idea.
How does cardio help with pullups?
Studies would be useful, preferably.
I can show how weight lifting helps with running. Can you do the opposite?
Cardio helps with pullups by speeding recovery, if done right. 20 easy min 3x/week sorta deal.
Do I get a prize?
Now can you show me any world class runners who use weight training? And please, endurance only. I think that's what the guy was referring to.
Top American marathoner Ryan Hall lifts weights. I believe all true elite distance runners do strength training of some kind. If it is not in the form of lifting weights it is in the form of doing plyometrics or drills of various kinds.
They do weights yeah but not to get big, more for muscle endurance.
On August 28 2011 18:05 exShikari wrote: I am genuinely at a loss as to why this thread is called the Health & Fitness initiative. I would rename it the bulking up thread. There's more to fitness than the size of your muscles -.-
If you read the OP, you will find a lot about nutrition, gymnastics and miscellaneous stuff (sleeping etc.) in there also. This thread has mainly developed into a Weightlifting thread, which is a little bit unfortunate and the reason why we are trying to get a sub-forum, where we can split stuff up into running, lifting, gymnastics, whatever your heart desires basically.
edit: I was surprised there is nothing about injuries/injury-prevention in our OP, or maybe I am just blind...
Besides that, I feel that a lot of the stuff you have posted on the last page seems questionable or even flat out wrong to me (and I don't say that because I believe that lifting heavy weights is the only way to achieve health and fitness). ==> Cardio helping with Pull-Ups? Only in the sense that if you lose 5kg by doing cardio those Pull-Ups will get easier.
Cardio helps with everything man, everything. I did read the OP which was fine, but yeah this is definitely a weight-lifting thread not a fitness thread which is why I questioned it. Sub-forums would be a good idea.
How does cardio help with pullups?
Studies would be useful, preferably.
I can show how weight lifting helps with running. Can you do the opposite?
Cardio helps with pullups by speeding recovery, if done right. 20 easy min 3x/week sorta deal.
Do I get a prize?
Now can you show me any world class runners who use weight training? And please, endurance only. I think that's what the guy was referring to.
No, you don't get a prize because you haven't proven anything. Prove to me how the physiological adaptations obtained from cardio help to improve pullups.
I asked for studies of which I can provide for athletes in phases of endurance training the benefit of strength work:
You see, I can find studies that prove that strength work supports cardiovascular adaptations. However, you will have lots of trouble reliably proving the opposite.
Ok. I'm not going to provide studies because I really can't be bothered right now (just finished work and it's nearly 6am ) but I'll dig some up if you really want.
If you knew anything at all about human biology you would know that the longer your body can utilise aerobic respiration to synthesise ATP the better. And guess what doing cardio does? Increases the aerobic threshold. Mind = blown.
On August 28 2011 18:05 exShikari wrote: I am genuinely at a loss as to why this thread is called the Health & Fitness initiative. I would rename it the bulking up thread. There's more to fitness than the size of your muscles -.-
If you read the OP, you will find a lot about nutrition, gymnastics and miscellaneous stuff (sleeping etc.) in there also. This thread has mainly developed into a Weightlifting thread, which is a little bit unfortunate and the reason why we are trying to get a sub-forum, where we can split stuff up into running, lifting, gymnastics, whatever your heart desires basically.
edit: I was surprised there is nothing about injuries/injury-prevention in our OP, or maybe I am just blind...
Besides that, I feel that a lot of the stuff you have posted on the last page seems questionable or even flat out wrong to me (and I don't say that because I believe that lifting heavy weights is the only way to achieve health and fitness). ==> Cardio helping with Pull-Ups? Only in the sense that if you lose 5kg by doing cardio those Pull-Ups will get easier.
Cardio helps with everything man, everything. I did read the OP which was fine, but yeah this is definitely a weight-lifting thread not a fitness thread which is why I questioned it. Sub-forums would be a good idea.
How does cardio help with pullups?
Studies would be useful, preferably.
I can show how weight lifting helps with running. Can you do the opposite?
Cardio helps with pullups by speeding recovery, if done right. 20 easy min 3x/week sorta deal.
Do I get a prize?
Now can you show me any world class runners who use weight training? And please, endurance only. I think that's what the guy was referring to.
Top American marathoner Ryan Hall lifts weights. I believe all true elite distance runners do strength training of some kind. If it is not in the form of lifting weights it is in the form of doing plyometrics or drills of various kinds.
They do weights yeah but not to get big, more for muscle endurance.
Lifting heavy is not synonymous with lifting to get big. Heavy lifting improves necessary muscle fiber recruitment needed to get the maximum amount of strength needed to perform a certain task. Many runner including myself lift heavy weights not to build muscular endurance but to build muscle power. Building muscular endurance for running is best done by running, not lifting.
On August 30 2011 04:03 AirbladeOrange wrote: I am training to compete in a few triathlons next year and am currently putting together a lifting program. I would like some advice about progression, periodization, or anything else if anyone can help me out.
The main muscles I am trying to target are: Upper - biceps, triceps, shoulders, upper back, pecs Core and lower back Lower - Quads, hamstrings, glutes, and calves
The exercises I plan on lifting heavy on are bench, squat, and romanian deadlift My body weight exercises are pull ups (normal and wide grip), chin ups, pushups, lunges My core and lower back work is done with a medicine ball routine (hits some shoulder, upper back, and triceps as well)
The thing about triathlon training is it seems difficult to get a good schedule where you can swim, bike, run, and lift while making sure you can recover from everything you do. I don't want to do more than 3 days of strength training in a week and definitely not more than 2 days in a weight room. I only need the weight room for benching, squating, deadlifts, chin ups, and pull ups.
I also don't know much about periodization and progression. I have about a year to train and different stages with different goals to go through. If I want to lift heavy to build true strength do I need to start with higher reps for the first phase of lifting? When should I be doing my heaviest lifting and when should I begin to taper?
Thanks for any help that may be given.
Okay so....
What are your goals? What are your current abilities (both with weights, and running/swimming/etc.)? Height and weight? How much time to the competition? What facilities do you have access to?
What you are asking is a very complicated question obviously depending on a lot of factors.
On August 28 2011 18:05 exShikari wrote: I am genuinely at a loss as to why this thread is called the Health & Fitness initiative. I would rename it the bulking up thread. There's more to fitness than the size of your muscles -.-
If you read the OP, you will find a lot about nutrition, gymnastics and miscellaneous stuff (sleeping etc.) in there also. This thread has mainly developed into a Weightlifting thread, which is a little bit unfortunate and the reason why we are trying to get a sub-forum, where we can split stuff up into running, lifting, gymnastics, whatever your heart desires basically.
edit: I was surprised there is nothing about injuries/injury-prevention in our OP, or maybe I am just blind...
Besides that, I feel that a lot of the stuff you have posted on the last page seems questionable or even flat out wrong to me (and I don't say that because I believe that lifting heavy weights is the only way to achieve health and fitness). ==> Cardio helping with Pull-Ups? Only in the sense that if you lose 5kg by doing cardio those Pull-Ups will get easier.
Cardio helps with everything man, everything. I did read the OP which was fine, but yeah this is definitely a weight-lifting thread not a fitness thread which is why I questioned it. Sub-forums would be a good idea.
How does cardio help with pullups?
Studies would be useful, preferably.
I can show how weight lifting helps with running. Can you do the opposite?
Cardio helps with pullups by speeding recovery, if done right. 20 easy min 3x/week sorta deal.
Do I get a prize?
Now can you show me any world class runners who use weight training? And please, endurance only. I think that's what the guy was referring to.
No, you don't get a prize because you haven't proven anything. Prove to me how the physiological adaptations obtained from cardio help to improve pullups.
I asked for studies of which I can provide for athletes in phases of endurance training the benefit of strength work:
You see, I can find studies that prove that strength work supports cardiovascular adaptations. However, you will have lots of trouble reliably proving the opposite.
Ok. I'm not going to provide studies because I really can't be bothered right now (just finished work and it's nearly 6am ) but I'll dig some up if you really want.
If you knew anything at all about human biology you would know that the longer your body can utilise aerobic respiration to synthesise ATP the better. And guess what doing cardio does? Increases the aerobic threshold. Mind = blown.
On August 28 2011 18:05 exShikari wrote: I am genuinely at a loss as to why this thread is called the Health & Fitness initiative. I would rename it the bulking up thread. There's more to fitness than the size of your muscles -.-
If you read the OP, you will find a lot about nutrition, gymnastics and miscellaneous stuff (sleeping etc.) in there also. This thread has mainly developed into a Weightlifting thread, which is a little bit unfortunate and the reason why we are trying to get a sub-forum, where we can split stuff up into running, lifting, gymnastics, whatever your heart desires basically.
edit: I was surprised there is nothing about injuries/injury-prevention in our OP, or maybe I am just blind...
Besides that, I feel that a lot of the stuff you have posted on the last page seems questionable or even flat out wrong to me (and I don't say that because I believe that lifting heavy weights is the only way to achieve health and fitness). ==> Cardio helping with Pull-Ups? Only in the sense that if you lose 5kg by doing cardio those Pull-Ups will get easier.
Cardio helps with everything man, everything. I did read the OP which was fine, but yeah this is definitely a weight-lifting thread not a fitness thread which is why I questioned it. Sub-forums would be a good idea.
How does cardio help with pullups?
Studies would be useful, preferably.
I can show how weight lifting helps with running. Can you do the opposite?
Cardio helps with pullups by speeding recovery, if done right. 20 easy min 3x/week sorta deal.
Do I get a prize?
Now can you show me any world class runners who use weight training? And please, endurance only. I think that's what the guy was referring to.
Top American marathoner Ryan Hall lifts weights. I believe all true elite distance runners do strength training of some kind. If it is not in the form of lifting weights it is in the form of doing plyometrics or drills of various kinds.
They do weights yeah but not to get big, more for muscle endurance.
I have a BS in biochemistry. I know what you are thinking, but it's incorrect thinking.
I think you should consider the fact that cardiovascular endurance is not the limiting factor in endurance exercise. Vo2max, for example, which signifies both cardiovascular ability, is not the defining factor in ability in elite endurance runners.
When you are talking about an exercise such as pullups where there is more of a strength-endurance type of effort needed, the defining factors that influence performance will be (1) maximal strength which makes repetitions easier and (2) ability of the muscles to tolerate anaerobic threshold specific to that muscle.
Cardio, which works the legs, also benefits the heart. However, it is not confer any significant benefits to the lats, biceps, forearms, and rest of the shoulder girdle which is critical in building the strength-endurance of those muscles for pullups.
So basically what you are saying is wrong. Just flat out wrong.
There's no need to do cardio to increase pullup numbers. He needs to (1) train weighted pullups and (2) train lots of pullups in high rep sets.
Specificity in training is key to get good at things.
I remember I used to post a little in one of the old H & F threads. I have been lifting on and off for some time, but I have decided I'm going to get huge. I'm starting a 3split routine tomorrow. My hope is that by posting in this thread I will stay motivated.
I will get some pictures taken asap, so I can see how my progress is.
I have some secondary goals as well.
First is being able to do a hundrede push-ups by the end of the semester. The whole class is training after each schoolday in order to reach the goal.
Second is getting some running shoes, so I can start running. I don't have any specific distances in mind, I'm just trying to improve my cardiovascular health.
Third is getting back into mountainbike hiking (in forest and such) again.
Fourth and last goal is to start rowing, so we can compete properly at our schools yearly competition (maritime school).
I'm 180 cm and weigh ~80 kg at present.
1. Hundred pushups can use that site which is already posted.
2. Running shoes -- get flats. Weight lifting improves cardiovascular health though too so I don't see why you HAVE to run but that's up to you.
3. Well yeah just go do it :p
4. What is the distance for the competition? When is it? That will depend on what type of training you need if you want to do well
1) yeah, will do
2) Thanks for the advice regarding shoes. I know it improves cardiovascular health, but not in a way where you can honestly say to yourself. Damn, I'm in good shape and I can do fast 5 klom run. My shape is at a point where weightlifting doesn't improve my cardiovascular form anymore.
3) will do as soon as I get a new mountainbike. The old one was stolen a few months ago
4) Iirc the distance is 1 kilometer ind the tourney is in 3 weeks time. We are 10 people rowing and 1 guy/gal being the 'boss' (I have no clue what it's called in English, but basically someone navigating/dealing orders). BUT since we are all first year students and none of us have tried rowing before, our ambition is only to participate. We are going to the local row club so we can start training a bit, so we can at least row synchron, but that's as far as it goes this season (season is almost over). Next season we can start training for real. But this season is only to participate for the lulz (and the girls :-D )
2. What type of shape is that?
Weight lifting improves the ability of ELITE endurance runners. Even if you were at that level, there is no way you could say that weight lifting would not improve your abilities. See the studies I referenced on the page before this one.
4. Well, 3 weeks is really too short to design any type of program around. You're best bet is to do some high intensity metabolic work 3-4x a week and then taper for about 2 days before the competition.
What you will want to do is work I would say 4-5x 250m intervals going all out. Rest 2-3 minutes between them.
Get a handle on how to pace yourself for the competition as well. What is your best time for 500m or 1000m? You should pace yourself about 110-115% or so of your 500m time if you have one of those, then just all out sprint the last 200m during competition.
On August 30 2011 04:03 AirbladeOrange wrote: I am training to compete in a few triathlons next year and am currently putting together a lifting program. I would like some advice about progression, periodization, or anything else if anyone can help me out.
The main muscles I am trying to target are: Upper - biceps, triceps, shoulders, upper back, pecs Core and lower back Lower - Quads, hamstrings, glutes, and calves
The exercises I plan on lifting heavy on are bench, squat, and romanian deadlift My body weight exercises are pull ups (normal and wide grip), chin ups, pushups, lunges My core and lower back work is done with a medicine ball routine (hits some shoulder, upper back, and triceps as well)
The thing about triathlon training is it seems difficult to get a good schedule where you can swim, bike, run, and lift while making sure you can recover from everything you do. I don't want to do more than 3 days of strength training in a week and definitely not more than 2 days in a weight room. I only need the weight room for benching, squating, deadlifts, chin ups, and pull ups.
I also don't know much about periodization and progression. I have about a year to train and different stages with different goals to go through. If I want to lift heavy to build true strength do I need to start with higher reps for the first phase of lifting? When should I be doing my heaviest lifting and when should I begin to taper?
Thanks for any help that may be given.
Okay so....
What are your goals? What are your current abilities (both with weights, and running/swimming/etc.)? Height and weight? How much time to the competition? What facilities do you have access to?
What you are asking is a very complicated question obviously depending on a lot of factors.
Thanks for the response.
My goal is to complete the triathlons I sign up for as fast as possible. Right now I don't have specific time goals as I don't have experience as a triathlete.
I have been a runner for a long time but can't run as much as I used to be able to because of my brittle shins. I haven't been improving my endurance in a while and could run a sub 19 minute 5k right now without any real training. I just got a bike and am unable to ride hard enough to give myself aerobic benefit because my quad muscles are limiting my ability to ride fast or long enough. For swimming, I do not know how to swim freestyle yet but will be on that in the coming weeks. I don't know how to state my current ability with weights as I haven't been on a lifting program. If I had to guess what I could do right now I'd say I can max bench 155, do 3 sets of 10 chin ups, and squat 180 pounds. I have been doing medicine ball stuff for my core, tris, upper back, quads, and shoulders as well as pushups for a while.
I'm not sure why height and weight matter so I'd like to know. I'm 5'7'' tall and weigh 132 pounds.
I have about a year until my competitions.
I have access to a weight room and will find access to an indoor pool as well.
I am thinking of a progression that gets me to peak for lifting the phase before my hardest event specific training phase in order to be at my strongest for the toughest training. Then just do maintenance work to keep my strength gains until I taper for the competitions.
On August 30 2011 04:03 AirbladeOrange wrote: I am training to compete in a few triathlons next year and am currently putting together a lifting program. I would like some advice about progression, periodization, or anything else if anyone can help me out.
The main muscles I am trying to target are: Upper - biceps, triceps, shoulders, upper back, pecs Core and lower back Lower - Quads, hamstrings, glutes, and calves
The exercises I plan on lifting heavy on are bench, squat, and romanian deadlift My body weight exercises are pull ups (normal and wide grip), chin ups, pushups, lunges My core and lower back work is done with a medicine ball routine (hits some shoulder, upper back, and triceps as well)
The thing about triathlon training is it seems difficult to get a good schedule where you can swim, bike, run, and lift while making sure you can recover from everything you do. I don't want to do more than 3 days of strength training in a week and definitely not more than 2 days in a weight room. I only need the weight room for benching, squating, deadlifts, chin ups, and pull ups.
I also don't know much about periodization and progression. I have about a year to train and different stages with different goals to go through. If I want to lift heavy to build true strength do I need to start with higher reps for the first phase of lifting? When should I be doing my heaviest lifting and when should I begin to taper?
Thanks for any help that may be given.
Okay so....
What are your goals? What are your current abilities (both with weights, and running/swimming/etc.)? Height and weight? How much time to the competition? What facilities do you have access to?
What you are asking is a very complicated question obviously depending on a lot of factors.
Thanks for the response.
My goal is to complete the triathlons I sign up for as fast as possible. Right now I don't have specific time goals as I don't have experience as a triathlete.
I have been a runner for a long time but can't run as much as I used to be able to because of my brittle shins. I haven't been improving my endurance in a while and could run a sub 19 minute 5k right now without any real training. I just got a bike and am unable to ride hard enough to give myself aerobic benefit because my quad muscles are limiting my ability to ride fast or long enough. For swimming, I do not know how to swim freestyle yet but will be on that in the coming weeks. I don't know how to state my current ability with weights as I haven't been on a lifting program. If I had to guess what I could do right now I'd say I can max bench 155, do 3 sets of 10 chin ups, and squat 180 pounds. I have been doing medicine ball stuff for my core, tris, upper back, quads, and shoulders as well as pushups for a while.
I'm not sure why height and weight matter so I'd like to know. I'm 5'7'' tall and weigh 132 pounds.
I have about a year until my competitions.
I have access to a weight room and will find access to an indoor pool as well.
I am thinking of a progression that gets me to peak for lifting the phase before my hardest event specific training phase in order to be at my strongest for the toughest training. Then just do maintenance work to keep my strength gains until I taper for the competitions.
Thanks again.
Well, that's not much detail to work with.
I would suggest getting in the gym 2x a week to work on your deadlift, squat, bench, and chins, Start adding weight to your chins. That's a barebones routine that you can do.
If you are going to go to the gym 5 days a week you should split up the volume you are going to do into 20-30 minutes segments and practice each of the things. For example, when you swim go swim and try to maintain for 20-30 minutes. On the days where you run and cycle do them at the same time.... cycling for 20-30 mintues then go running for 20-30 minutes. Paces you can maintain for that long or longer if you need longer work.
That will help to build your aerobic capacity. As the race starts to get within about 6 months you're going to want to start to start biasing your pacing towards the distance of your races modulating work with around anaerobic threshold for some shorter work, and about 10% below AT for longer work.
Around 2-3 months you're goign to want to cut back strength to 1 day per week to maintain.
1 month before you want to start working in some intervals and finishers.
1-2 weeks before you will start tapering.
There's a lot more details but that's the gist of the outline.
EPT
) but I'll dig some up if you really want.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eMcmf.png)
