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On May 11 2015 05:15 Chexx wrote:
I still think the main reason why the Subreddit didnt receive your NDA message was that you weaved together the news and your opinion.
I think it would have been better to separate it
News, why its unusual (no other subreddit does it) etc
My opinion:
your thoughts here why its bad etc
There was zero editorialising in the article but circlejerks are gonna circle.
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
On May 13 2015 02:31 RichardLewis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2015 05:15 Chexx wrote:
I still think the main reason why the Subreddit didnt receive your NDA message was that you weaved together the news and your opinion.
I think it would have been better to separate it
News, why its unusual (no other subreddit does it) etc
My opinion:
your thoughts here why its bad etc
There was zero editorialising in the article but circlejerks are gonna circle.
yeah I agree. I just read the article again probably got comments from you on the topic mixed up
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Baa?21244 Posts
On May 13 2015 02:31 RichardLewis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2015 05:15 Chexx wrote:
I still think the main reason why the Subreddit didnt receive your NDA message was that you weaved together the news and your opinion.
I think it would have been better to separate it
News, why its unusual (no other subreddit does it) etc
My opinion:
your thoughts here why its bad etc
There was zero editorialising in the article but circlejerks are gonna circle.
I think you have to consider that while you may be correct, the average reader is unlikely to be keen enough to make these subtle distinctions. For the average Redditor, "RLewis" is a conflation of your officially published articles, tweets, offhand remakes, and replies. I don't think this is a good situation, but if you want to be active in this field you have to be cognizant of these realities.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
It bothers me that you say you don't editorialize when you really do, just in a slimy and underhanded fashion. It happens in all of your anti-Riot/anti-Reddit posts, but let's look at this post in particular:
In a bid to keep the site impartial and free from corporate influence, the site restricts moderators from forming agreements with outside entities. “You may not enter into any form of agreement on behalf of reddit, or the subreddit which you moderate, without our written approval,” the Reddit user agreement reads.
As phrased, this is clearly intended to imply that the moderators' NDAs violate the Reddit TOS and make them no longer "impartial / free from corporate influence". And had the mods signed a contract, where there's monetary compensation promised in exchange for certain actions, does implicate those concerns.
But as you surely know, an NDA doesn't, because there is no consideration. There's no money promised in exchange for anything, just an agreement on behalf of the moderators not to divulge confidential information. It's literally not possible for me to be biased in favor of Riot Games because of an NDA, because the NDA doesn't provide any reason for me to be biased in their favor. And this is pretty much what the Reddit admin wrote in response.
So right off the bat, if you know what an NDA is, you already know this is irrelevant. But to those who don't know what an NDA is, or who are easily intimidated by acronyms (the typical Richard Lewis audience?), adding that introductory clause confuses the issue and implies some sort of control that Riot can exert over the moderators. If you actually wrote that, even your editor would laugh you out of the room, and yet you can write articles like these and claim that you didn't actually make these accusations - you just implied it. Which suggests that you have as low an opinion of your readership as I do.
Disclaimer: The author of this story was banned from the League of Legends subreddit shortly before this article's publication.
It's cute that you didn't mention why you were banned, so that your readers could think that your ban was due to your article, rather than the other way around. I guess you look less sympathetic when you write "Disclaimer: The author of this story was recently banned from the League of Legends subreddit for mocking a user's suicidal tendencies after having been repeatedly warned for abusive behavior."
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I like RL's articles on roster swaps, but when it comes to Riot-related stuff it's hard to not take a huge grain of salt. Seeing the well known conflict between RL and Riot, it's not hard to see the conflict of interest when RL reports an event related to Riot.
Putting the NDA aside (which has been analyzed to death already and even Bryce says it's not a concern), I remember that was a RL article about several people's hard drives getting deleted due to some sort of LoL hack's malicious code. In that article, RL wrote a line that says something along the line of "Riot's past initiatives against hacks were largely ineffective". To me, that's just a line of pure comedy - since there is absolutely no way RL can know about the effectiveness one way or another. It was written just to take a jab at Riot Games.
Sure, I think RL can be biased against Riot due to their past relationships, but it gets ironic sometimes especially when RL does talk about journalistic integrity a lot.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On May 13 2015 03:14 Sufficiency wrote:
I like RL's articles on roster swaps, but when it comes to Riot-related stuff it's hard to not take a huge grain of salt. Seeing the well known conflict between RL and Riot, it's not hard to see the conflict of interest when RL reports an event related to Riot.
...
Sure, I think RL can be biased against Riot due to their past relationships, but it does get comedic sometimes especially when RL does talk about journalistic integrity a lot.
Do you remember the ESL/Deman controversy? Where RL wrote articles blaming Riot for something that ESL did, desperate to stay on good terms with ESL? To me that was the most potent example of RL's "journalistic integrity" in action. (Also, as Deman learned, exactly how much RL cares about his friends.)
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I dont know what your problem is Grandinquisitor, but from what I can tell, you really hate RL. This is not even -ABOUT- RL it is about a for profit organisation acting hypocritically, and throwing its weight around.
EDIT: Like seriously, you dont like him we get it /clap. Bring up as many points as you like about how much of a douche he is, it doesn't matter, he has been banned for that, and no one is objecting to him being banned -no one- so you can stop trying to persuade people his ban was justified -we agree-
This is about an organisation censoring content. An organisation that is meant to let its users decide what content is good or bad. Further to that point -it doesnt matter if you like his content or not, that is not the god damn point!- the point is -the community should decide- not the reddit mods, and not you.
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On May 13 2015 05:16 Raneth wrote:
I dont know what your problem is Grandinquisitor, but from what I can tell, you really hate RL. This is not even -ABOUT- RL it is about a for profit organisation acting hypocritically, and throwing its weight around.
EDIT: Like seriously, you dont like him we get it /clap. Bring up as many points as you like about how much of a douche he is, it doesn't matter, he has been banned for that, and no one is objecting to him being banned -no one- so you can stop trying to persuade people his ban was justified -we agree-
This is about an organisation censoring content. An organisation that is meant to let its users decide what content is good or bad. Further to that point -it doesnt matter if you like his content or not, that is not the god damn point!- the point is -the community should decide- not the reddit mods, and not you.
A lot of people don't like RL on reddit. Some of the hatred is understandable, IMO, although a lot of it is also unfair for RL.
Don't automatically assume his work is automatically loved and accepted by the community. His roster swap articles are awesome, but when Riot gets involved it becomes a shitfest. In fact, I feel that his report on the reddit mods, especially on the NDA, heavily damaged the community. To this day I do not know why KoreanTerran quitted modding except that he was apparently threatened by RL.
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On May 13 2015 05:16 Raneth wrote:
the point is -the community should decide- not the reddit mods, and CERTAINLY not you.
That's really what this boils down to. I added a word for emphasis as well. I'm pretty sure every point in this debate has been established, and really one side won't make the other feel any better about their standing. It's a shame that two very important things in the League of Legends following (yes reddit and RL are both significantly important) have to clash in an unproductive way but such is life.
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On May 13 2015 05:45 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2015 05:16 Raneth wrote:
I dont know what your problem is Grandinquisitor, but from what I can tell, you really hate RL. This is not even -ABOUT- RL it is about a for profit organisation acting hypocritically, and throwing its weight around.
EDIT: Like seriously, you dont like him we get it /clap. Bring up as many points as you like about how much of a douche he is, it doesn't matter, he has been banned for that, and no one is objecting to him being banned -no one- so you can stop trying to persuade people his ban was justified -we agree-
This is about an organisation censoring content. An organisation that is meant to let its users decide what content is good or bad. Further to that point -it doesnt matter if you like his content or not, that is not the god damn point!- the point is -the community should decide- not the reddit mods, and not you. A lot of people don't like RL on reddit. Some of the hatred is understandable, IMO, although a lot of it is also unfair for RL. Don't automatically assume his work is automatically loved and accepted by the community. His roster swap articles are awesome, but when Riot gets involved it becomes a shitfest. In fact, I feel that his report on the reddit mods, especially on the NDA, heavily damaged the community. To this day I do not know why KoreanTerran quitted modding except that he was apparently threatened by RL.
Where did I assume his work is loved? Re-read what I said, and stop trying to make this an argument about who does, or does not, like RL or his work THAT IS NOT WHAT THE DEBATE IS ABOUT
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Baa?21244 Posts
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On May 13 2015 05:56 Raneth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2015 05:45 Sufficiency wrote:On May 13 2015 05:16 Raneth wrote:
I dont know what your problem is Grandinquisitor, but from what I can tell, you really hate RL. This is not even -ABOUT- RL it is about a for profit organisation acting hypocritically, and throwing its weight around.
EDIT: Like seriously, you dont like him we get it /clap. Bring up as many points as you like about how much of a douche he is, it doesn't matter, he has been banned for that, and no one is objecting to him being banned -no one- so you can stop trying to persuade people his ban was justified -we agree-
This is about an organisation censoring content. An organisation that is meant to let its users decide what content is good or bad. Further to that point -it doesnt matter if you like his content or not, that is not the god damn point!- the point is -the community should decide- not the reddit mods, and not you. A lot of people don't like RL on reddit. Some of the hatred is understandable, IMO, although a lot of it is also unfair for RL. Don't automatically assume his work is automatically loved and accepted by the community. His roster swap articles are awesome, but when Riot gets involved it becomes a shitfest. In fact, I feel that his report on the reddit mods, especially on the NDA, heavily damaged the community. To this day I do not know why KoreanTerran quitted modding except that he was apparently threatened by RL. Where did I assume his work is loved? Re-read what I said, and stop trying to make this an argument about who does, or does not, like RL or his work THAT IS NOT WHAT THE DEBATE IS ABOUT
First of all, not everyone likes RL's contents. I, for one, don't like his Riot related material because I find them too biased. I am not the only one out there. You know this. It's a very politically charged topic.
Secondly, the community doesn't decide what is allowed and what is not allowed. If the community decides, we will get rule34 material on the front page 24/7. There are also other examples of good subreddits with strong moderation and subreddits going to shit due to bad moderation. The moderators should be allowed to decide what are and what are not allowed on the subreddit.
The user decides what are good and what are bad within the material in a subreddit that complies to subreddit rules.
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lol, this is the best thread.
Remove all discussions about relevant news or about the content ban within minutes, allow Richard Lewis spam for 30. They're reaching the front page faster now though it seems.
Also to the people talking about comment standards and the amount of shitposting, I may have misunderstood but I thought that was the point of Reddit.
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It shows that some people like him, sure. But like I said, it's a political mess at the moment and RL also has tons of anti-fans.
The easiest way to deal with this kind of issues is to ban the topic outright so no one can discuss it. GD has some of these blacklisted topics too.
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Baa?21244 Posts
On May 13 2015 06:21 Sufficiency wrote:It shows that some people like him, sure. But like I said, it's a political mess at the moment and RL also has tons of anti-fans. The easiest way to deal with this kind of issues is to ban the topic outright so no one can discuss it. GD has some of these blacklisted topics too.
TL doesn't market itself as a free discourse platform like Reddit does is the difference.
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On May 13 2015 06:21 Sufficiency wrote:It shows that some people like him, sure. But like I said, it's a political mess at the moment and RL also has tons of anti-fans. The easiest way to deal with this kind of issues is to ban the topic outright so no one can discuss it. GD has some of these blacklisted topics too.
I seriously hope you're not comparing RL's articles to gp10 discussions.
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On May 13 2015 06:24 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2015 06:21 Sufficiency wrote:It shows that some people like him, sure. But like I said, it's a political mess at the moment and RL also has tons of anti-fans. The easiest way to deal with this kind of issues is to ban the topic outright so no one can discuss it. GD has some of these blacklisted topics too. TL doesn't market itself as a free discourse platform like Reddit does is the difference.
Actually reddit is still very free.
Unlike a forum, I can make my own subreddit in many shapes and forms and run it so long as it is within the rules of the site. If you don't think it's free your definition of it is too narrow.
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On May 13 2015 06:26 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2015 06:24 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 13 2015 06:21 Sufficiency wrote:It shows that some people like him, sure. But like I said, it's a political mess at the moment and RL also has tons of anti-fans. The easiest way to deal with this kind of issues is to ban the topic outright so no one can discuss it. GD has some of these blacklisted topics too. TL doesn't market itself as a free discourse platform like Reddit does is the difference. Actually reddit is still very free. Unlike a forum, I can make my own subreddit in many shapes and forms and run it so long as it is within the rules of the site. If you don't think it's free your definition of it is too narrow.
The LoL subreddit has like 700,000 people subscribed and gets millions of hits per day. It's not as simple as make your own one because they are the default discussion board for league of legends.
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On May 13 2015 06:34 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2015 06:26 Sufficiency wrote:On May 13 2015 06:24 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 13 2015 06:21 Sufficiency wrote:It shows that some people like him, sure. But like I said, it's a political mess at the moment and RL also has tons of anti-fans. The easiest way to deal with this kind of issues is to ban the topic outright so no one can discuss it. GD has some of these blacklisted topics too. TL doesn't market itself as a free discourse platform like Reddit does is the difference. Actually reddit is still very free. Unlike a forum, I can make my own subreddit in many shapes and forms and run it so long as it is within the rules of the site. If you don't think it's free your definition of it is too narrow. The LoL subreddit has like 700,000 people subscribed and gets millions of hits in traffic. It's not as simple as make your own one because they are the default discussion board for league of legends.
That's definitely an issue IMO. I've said this many times already. But that has nothing to do with 'freeness' of reddit.
/r/RiotFreeLoL is still there. You can use that as the alternative if you want to.
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On May 13 2015 06:37 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2015 06:34 Ansibled wrote:On May 13 2015 06:26 Sufficiency wrote:On May 13 2015 06:24 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 13 2015 06:21 Sufficiency wrote:It shows that some people like him, sure. But like I said, it's a political mess at the moment and RL also has tons of anti-fans. The easiest way to deal with this kind of issues is to ban the topic outright so no one can discuss it. GD has some of these blacklisted topics too. TL doesn't market itself as a free discourse platform like Reddit does is the difference. Actually reddit is still very free. Unlike a forum, I can make my own subreddit in many shapes and forms and run it so long as it is within the rules of the site. If you don't think it's free your definition of it is too narrow. The LoL subreddit has like 700,000 people subscribed and gets millions of hits in traffic. It's not as simple as make your own one because they are the default discussion board for league of legends. That's definitely an issue IMO. I've said this many times already. But that has nothing to do with 'freeness' of reddit. /r/RiotFreeLoL is still there. You can use that as the alternative if you want to.
Sure you can, but that's not really the issue. The /r/leagueoflegends moderators have the ability to deny significant amounts of traffic/revenue to people because they feel like it, and it's not just Richard Lewis who gets affected.
http://www.reddit.com/r/undelete/comments/35r9xq/441127494_forg1ven_set_to_join_gambit/
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/35raew/did_the_gambit_forg1ven_thread_get_removed/
The best thing about this situation is the amount of shitposting/'vote brigading'/whatever has only increased from their decision to ban content. There are multiple threads that reach the front page with thousands of upvotes complaining about the moderation and they get removed. Then they remove new articles constantly for 30 minutes until they finally allow one to stay at which point the comments are a complete shitfest about why the other threads all got removed.
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/35qzlu/the_fact_that_mods_removed_both_the_ekko_from_the/
I don't see how they could think keeping the content ban in effect is going to help anything, because it's already pretty evident it made the situation a lot worse.
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EPT
