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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
Reddit doesn't harm a content creator by banning his content, because using Reddit is a privilege, not a right. There is no 'harm' when your usage of Reddit is not a right. I will use the same analogy. You as a content creator is like a beggar on the street and Reddit is a potential benefactor. You ask your benefactor nicely and he might give you some money; if you don't get the money, you can't run around pointing fingers at your benefactor accusing him of ruining your life. | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On May 11 2015 13:17 SnK-Arcbound wrote: For something, or someone to be public, there must only be a single iota of publicness. If you step out of your house for a second, you are a public figure. Please don't spout off about legal issues when you clearly have no understanding whatsoever about what a "public figure" is in American law. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/97702-tl-ten-commandments-2009 1. THIS IS OUR HOUSE You are our guests. We will make all attempts to treat everyone with due respect and to accommodate everyone's wishes as far as reasonably possible. But, this is a private site. We are not a "for profit" enterprise. We are not funded by any governments. This means we run the site the way we see fit. We are not obligated to observe anyone's notions of "free speech" or even "fairness." We try of course, and that's why we're consistently considered one of the best gaming sites on the web, and you are always free to give us suggestions (Website Feedback Forum). But, we have our limits. If we don't like you, we simply IP ban you. If we're really pissed off, then we IP ban you AND nuke every single post you've uploaded to the site - ever. It will be as if you had never existed here. This is our house. You've been warned. You pissed off Reddit, and they banned you. Heck, they did much more than they needed to. They could have banned you on sight for no particular reason at all, but they tried to reason with you. It didn't work out, so now all your stuff is banned, and you get to think about biting the hand that feeds. Reddit has zero moral obligation towards anyone. It got to where it is because people respect it as a source of information. If the moderators made enough bad decisions, like banning all content creators who are gay, then people will vote with their feet and go somewhere else. It's happened to websites as a whole (Myspace, Digg), and it's happened to various subreddits (/r/gaming, /r/games). The fact that RiotFreeLoL has 0.6% the subscribers that leagueoflegends does, plus the fact that its "gameday thread" has exactly 16 comments on the MSI final, suggests to me that people have made their choice and it's not in favor of RL. Yeah, it's a little unfair. Life sucks. And it sucks even harder when you're a complete dick for no reason to a lot of different people. | ||
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
On May 11 2015 22:59 GrandInquisitor wrote: The fact that RiotFreeLoL has exactly 0.6% the subscribers that leagueoflegends does, plus the fact that its "gameday thread" has exactly 16 comments on the MSI final, suggests to me that people have made their choice and it's not in favor of RL. That's not really a good point because it is not really a choice. It's more like the betamax vs vhs choice at a moment when everyone has vhs players already. | ||
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ShootAnonymous
1948 Posts
On May 11 2015 23:01 Prog wrote: That's not really a good point because it is not really a choice. It's more like the betamax vs vhs choice at a moment when everyone has vhs players already. Inaction is a choice, to not change is a choice; regardless of whether one is consciously making the decision or not. In this case, the 99.4% chose comfort/familiarity. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
1) Are the leagueoflegends mods unjustifiably mean to RL and his content? 2) Are the leagueoflegends mods corrupt and/or controlled by Riot? They're two very different questions. To RL and the creators of riotfreelol, they are one and the same, obviously, but I think (1) is maybe 20% correct and (2) is at most 5% correct. RL's ultimate thesis seems to imply that it's Riot behind this conspiracy to keep him down, and I think we can all agree that that's total hogwash. I'm sure Riot isn't devastated over the subreddit's decision, but I think it's implausible to suggest that they had any role in it. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On May 11 2015 23:01 Prog wrote: That's not really a good point because it is not really a choice. It's more like the betamax vs vhs choice at a moment when everyone has vhs players already. How is it like betamax vs VHS? People left Myspace, Digg, Friendster, Yahoo, Hotmail, and tons of other sites with significantly stronger network effects than a subreddit. A good example is the xkcd subreddit. The xkcd subreddit was taken over by truly corrupt mods (Holocaust denialists and racists who imposed all sorts of gag rules on the subreddit), and so the community en masse moved to the xkcd_comic subreddit. Recently the main xkcd subreddit was "taken back", and so everyone moved back. http://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/2cz3fz/usoccer_is_removed_from_rxkcd/ http://np.reddit.com/r/self/comments/1xdwba/the_history_of_the_rxkcd_kerfuffle/ | ||
Chexx
Korea (South)11232 Posts
On May 11 2015 23:12 GrandInquisitor wrote: How is it like betamax vs VHS? People left Myspace, Digg, Friendster, Yahoo, Hotmail, and tons of other sites with significantly stronger network effects than a subreddit. A good example is the xkcd subreddit. The xkcd subreddit was taken over by truly corrupt mods (Holocaust denialists and racists who imposed all sorts of gag rules on the subreddit), and so the community en masse moved to the xkcd_comic subreddit. Recently the main xkcd subreddit was "taken back", and so everyone moved back. http://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/2cz3fz/usoccer_is_removed_from_rxkcd/ http://np.reddit.com/r/self/comments/1xdwba/the_history_of_the_rxkcd_kerfuffle/ use the edit function and don't double post. Its the second double post in the same thread on the same page. | ||
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
On May 11 2015 23:12 GrandInquisitor wrote: How is it like betamax vs VHS? People left Myspace, Digg, Friendster, Yahoo, Hotmail, and tons of other sites with significantly stronger network effects than a subreddit. They could have also left VHS for betamax. But network effects just make the cost of switching a lot higher. In the cases you cited other sites just overcompensated this cost. To give an obvious, far-fetched example: I won't switch to TL alternatives (that are less frequented) simply because a user left tl for an alternative. However, I would switch to a TL alternative if TL was cluttered with ads and the alternatives were not, but had the same userbase. In a sense there is still choice. But the cards are heavily stacked in one favour. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
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Majax
France816 Posts
On May 11 2015 23:36 GrandInquisitor wrote: Oh I agree, it's hard to switch. Which is why I think that it's a little unfair. But I don't think it's terribly unfair, partially because it's happened before given sufficiently extreme circumstances, and partially because it's not like there's a pattern of subjugation going on here - RL's the only one that's ever had this type of ban levied against him. Nope. Ongamers was also banned because of the actions of 1 of their jounalists. The ban didn't last long, but still... This is not the 1st time they ban content the users want from the subbreddit. This should not happen. I trully don't car about Richard's ban, but I want to be able to find is content on the subbreddit if I want to. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/29g81a/slasher_has_been_site_wide_banned/cikxigw As far as I know RL is the only person that leagueoflegends has ever banned. | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21242 Posts
On May 11 2015 23:53 GrandInquisitor wrote: As far as I know RL is the only person that leagueoflegends has ever banned. Him and, you know, everyone who dared mention his name on the subreddit. I think all attempts at logically defending r/lol in this situation evaporates when confronted with the fact that they actually banned people for daring to say Richard Lewis or mentioning r/riotfreelol or any other number of "infractions." | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Though your post is also obviously wrong -- just sort any vaguely controversial meta-lol topic by controversial and look at all the people who "dared to say Richard Lewis or mentioned r/riotfreelol" and aren't banned: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/34zvn6/rules_rework_draft_discussion/?sort=controversial I assume what's actually happening is that the RL cesspool commenters get banned for being, you know, terrible, and then they declare to all who will listen that they are but martyrs at the stake, pilloried for merely mentioning The Forbidden One, when in actuality they were just shitposting and getting rightfully banned for it. These are true shitposters and one of the reasons I mostly stay on TL is because we are totally strict about kicking them the fuck out. It's sad that the subreddit can't do the same without people bitching about corruption. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On May 12 2015 00:02 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Him and, you know, everyone who dared mention his name on the subreddit. I think all attempts at logically defending r/lol in this situation evaporates when confronted with the fact that they actually banned people for daring to say Richard Lewis or mentioning r/riotfreelol or any other number of "infractions." Are you sure about this? I've seen many mentions of his name, "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named", Lichard Rewis, and other references to RL left up with no action taken against the users. Often they're heavily upvoted comments, too, so it's not like they are sneaking under the radar. On May 12 2015 00:24 GrandInquisitor wrote: These are true shitposters and one of the reasons I mostly stay on TL is because we are totally strict about kicking them the fuck out. It's sad that the subreddit can't do the same without people bitching about corruption. The delicious irony of it is, TL is paid by Riot. We have way more monetary incentive to toe the Rito party line here than /r/lol does. | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21242 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
Much Riot influence right there. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
They spent some time removing news with no mention of Richard Lewis because Richard Lewis reported it first, even if the post contains no link to any other website or if it has been reported by someone else. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDxNKlGVEAEbSaM.png:large) | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
To be clear -- lots of the posts that are left are garbage too, and should also be deleted, but that doesn't excuse these posts. Note that some of the deleted posts are also pro-moderators/anti-RL. I just find it ironic that TL members are up in arms about this, when the whole reason TL exists today is because it was notorious for incredibly strict moderation standards. That's what you have to do to keep a forum healthy. Discussion forums go downhill when shitposting is tolerated instead of ruthlessly excised. | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21242 Posts
On May 12 2015 00:43 GrandInquisitor wrote: Yeah that to me falls under the category of shitposting and should all get deleted. These posts aren't deleted "just for mentioning RL" -- there are lots of RL posts that aren't deleted, and they wouldn't show up in this image -- they're deleted because they're useless and don't contribute. (Of course the authors of those posts tell everyone that they got banned/their posts deleted because they were pro-RL.) Just imagine posting that shit on TL, how long would you last? To be clear -- lots of the posts that are left are garbage too, and should also be deleted, but that doesn't excuse these posts. Note that some of the deleted posts are also pro-moderators/anti-RL. It's about posting standards. Reddit doesn't moderate posts except in rare occasions, and "low content" posting is the norm there. The difference between the posts that got deleted and the ones that got left up is basically only RL/Daily Dot/riotfreelol. All else being equal it's easy to see that's why those posts were deleted/the users banned. | ||
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