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Richard Lewis banned from Reddit - Page 6

Forum Index > The Shopkeeper′s Inn
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Ansibled
Profile Joined November 2014
United Kingdom9872 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-08 13:34:14
May 08 2015 13:24 GMT
#101
OK, Reddit mods are having a meltdown right now.
'StarCraft is just a fairy tale told to scare children actually.'
TL+ Member
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35172 Posts
May 08 2015 13:32 GMT
#102
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/35aehr/i_nortificated_candidates_at_rookie_nation_after/

Fucking.

Lol.
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21244 Posts
May 08 2015 13:54 GMT
#103
? Elaborate? Not really sure what I'm looking at.
TranslatorBaa!
Chexx
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)11232 Posts
May 08 2015 14:08 GMT
#104
well they just stick to the rule that they delete every Richard Lewis article.
WriterFollow me @TL_Chexx
Ansibled
Profile Joined November 2014
United Kingdom9872 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-08 14:13:26
May 08 2015 14:13 GMT
#105
On May 08 2015 23:08 Chexx wrote:
well they just stick to the rule that they delete every Richard Lewis article.


It's not just that they were deleting Richard Lewis articles, they deleted posts which reported the news with no mention of Richard Lewis for about 30 minutes.

'StarCraft is just a fairy tale told to scare children actually.'
TL+ Member
AlterKot
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
Poland7525 Posts
May 08 2015 14:14 GMT
#106
Looks like it's one of those situations where an org decided to cooperate and let the dailydot be the first to break the news (considering the quotes and images in the article) but you can't post it on r/lol because rlewis so hillarity ensues. Checking r/riotfreelol when I don't know what's going on starts to be a good practice.
Americans don't like to use unblockables, it is considered not honest. You press a button at the wrong time and hit the other person, you are random, not a top player. You DP Sim's far fierce, it is random and not honest.
nameless55
Profile Joined August 2010
United States68 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-08 14:15:24
May 08 2015 14:14 GMT
#107
This is a pretty hilarious situation since c9 gave RLewis the article. Mods literally can't even.
AsnSensation
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany24009 Posts
May 08 2015 14:22 GMT
#108
I knew reddit mods were retarded, but not this retarded.
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21244 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-08 14:24:19
May 08 2015 14:24 GMT
#109
Oh that's amazing lol. Reddit once again proves itself hilariously mockable.

#freeRLewis
TranslatorBaa!
Majax
Profile Joined December 2014
France816 Posts
May 08 2015 14:27 GMT
#110
Good from C9 to give the finger to r/lol, after all Richard Lewis has always advocated the lift of Incarnati0n's ban's from competitive gaming.
Can't take LMS hipsters serious
BrownBear
Profile Joined March 2010
United States6894 Posts
May 08 2015 14:44 GMT
#111
Yea, I was on the side of the mods initially due to RL being such a twatwaffle, but holy crap this is getting ridiculous.

I think there can be a clear line drawn where you don't allow links to the content, but you can allow discussion of said content. Clearly /r/lol disagrees.
SUNSFANNED
eieio
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States14512 Posts
May 08 2015 15:43 GMT
#112
alright this is pretty hilarious

yeah just ban content from one of the most well known and prolific esports journalists out there I'm sure that won't cause any complications for a massive community that's interested in reading league news
LiquidDota Staff
TL+ Member
RichardLewis
Profile Joined April 2015
United Kingdom15 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-10 15:46:31
May 10 2015 15:34 GMT
#113
Hi Richard,

On reddit, you managed to belittle someone by talking about a video he made in highschool. Apparently you found this video on his Facebook. I am pretty impressed, since you must have gotten his real name and other sensitive information via a reddit handle. I am curious as to how you did it.


Googled his username. It linked to an account on another website where he posted his video. I posted video. He said it was his. Elite level doxxing obviously.

Secondly, on the video you posted, you showed a screenshot of your Linkdin being examined by a reddit mod. I am curious how you found out that's a reddit mod. Since you chose to blur out the names, I can only assume this isn't some publically available information. You must have figured out that person's real name somehow.


I do know the names of the mods. Found that out over a year ago, as I said I would on Twitter. I still don't understand why it's OK for them to gun after people's jobs - keep in mind they already made William Turton quit after smearing him in public and stating he'd reported inaccurate information, which was accurate - but their real names are somehow sacrosanct.

Of course you could just be doing all of this for your own research purposes (not doxing), but it does seem to me that you are very good at digging up information from the internet. It's like you carrying a loaded gun and not afraid to tell other people that you have a loaded gun; you can shoot people with it, but you insist that you won't do it. So at this point it's a matter of whether or not we can trust you with the loaded gun.


I believe people who have power over people's livelihoods should not be able to hide behind anonymous usernames and exert their influence without any potential reprisals. I think most people agree this is sensible. Ironically, the moderators are effectively proving the arguments that are used about trolls - that anonymity will make people behave in unreasonable ways they wouldn't if their identity was on display.

I'm not against anonymity to level the playing field against oppressive governments or other noble causes. Hiding behind an alias for the sole purpose of not wanting to be held accountable when you fuck with people's lives is far from noble. I don't even use a gamer alias these days because I believe that as someone who reports on things I need to be transparent too.
TitusVI
Profile Joined April 2013
Germany8319 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-10 16:20:15
May 10 2015 16:18 GMT
#114
Richard Lewis suits the lol community so much that behind all the fighting everyone knows that they belong together.

While all parties involved seem to hate all the fighting deep inside everyone enjoys the tension and drama.

Like in the move "the wrestler". You fight in front of the audience and experience some pain and suffering. But in the end you love beeing in the spotlight. Beeing the guy that causes all these emotions from all these people.
Starting storms that might turn into something no one can controll.
Science>Mechanics
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-10 17:03:38
May 10 2015 16:58 GMT
#115
On May 11 2015 00:34 RichardLewis wrote:
Show nested quote +
Hi Richard,

On reddit, you managed to belittle someone by talking about a video he made in highschool. Apparently you found this video on his Facebook. I am pretty impressed, since you must have gotten his real name and other sensitive information via a reddit handle. I am curious as to how you did it.


Googled his username. It linked to an account on another website where he posted his video. I posted video. He said it was his. Elite level doxxing obviously.

Show nested quote +
Secondly, on the video you posted, you showed a screenshot of your Linkdin being examined by a reddit mod. I am curious how you found out that's a reddit mod. Since you chose to blur out the names, I can only assume this isn't some publically available information. You must have figured out that person's real name somehow.


I do know the names of the mods. Found that out over a year ago, as I said I would on Twitter. I still don't understand why it's OK for them to gun after people's jobs - keep in mind they already made William Turton quit after smearing him in public and stating he'd reported inaccurate information, which was accurate - but their real names are somehow sacrosanct.

Show nested quote +
Of course you could just be doing all of this for your own research purposes (not doxing), but it does seem to me that you are very good at digging up information from the internet. It's like you carrying a loaded gun and not afraid to tell other people that you have a loaded gun; you can shoot people with it, but you insist that you won't do it. So at this point it's a matter of whether or not we can trust you with the loaded gun.


I believe people who have power over people's livelihoods should not be able to hide behind anonymous usernames and exert their influence without any potential reprisals. I think most people agree this is sensible. Ironically, the moderators are effectively proving the arguments that are used about trolls - that anonymity will make people behave in unreasonable ways they wouldn't if their identity was on display.

I'm not against anonymity to level the playing field against oppressive governments or other noble causes. Hiding behind an alias for the sole purpose of not wanting to be held accountable when you fuck with people's lives is far from noble. I don't even use a gamer alias these days because I believe that as someone who reports on things I need to be transparent too.


So I have two issues with this.

1. I don't think it's up to you to decide whose anonymity is appropriate. In the US, "public figures" have almost no protection on their privacy, but the laws may be different elsewhere and it's not even clear if the mods are considered public figures in the US.

2. Reddit is a for-profit platform; your usage of it is a privilege, not a right. This is the same with Teamliquid or anywhere else. They can technically exclude you for any reasons or no reasons at all. They can technically kick you out for having short hair, wearing glasses, or because your last name starts with letter L. Reddit is not a public government service and they have no obligation to include you.

That being said, I am not denying that there is a problem. The /r/lol reddit is too big and too inclusive. While I will strongly disagree with you that there is any tangible "Riot influence" on the /r/lol mods, I am definitely concerned with other third-party influences. For example, if I run theScore, can I give 10K dollars to the mods so /r/lol will ban contents from one of my competitors (e.g. DailyDot)?

That was just a hypothetical question, of course, but my bigger concern with /r/lol is that not all mods know what are banned and what are not banned. A few months back I complained really loudly about this "secret blacklist" of banned domains on /r/lol, and my impression after talking to several mods is that the blacklist is so complicated that only a few mods know what it is and who are on it (I can tell you for sure that my blog was blacklisted on /r/lol and it was definitely not due to the things /u/Tjonke mentioned). This makes it super easy for a third-party organization to bribe a single mod to modify the "secret blacklist" - and no other mods will ever know about it.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-10 16:59:56
May 10 2015 16:59 GMT
#116
-
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
RichardLewis
Profile Joined April 2015
United Kingdom15 Posts
May 10 2015 17:22 GMT
#117
So I have two issues with this.

1. I don't think it's up to you to decide whose anonymity is appropriate. In the US, "public figures" have almost no protection on their privacy, but the laws may be different elsewhere and it's not even clear if the mods are considered public figures in the US.


For me it's fairly clear cut and I don't see you offering a counter-argument to the point, which is that if you have powers that can have a genuine impact on someone's life and livelihood then there has to be accountability put in place. Given that there is no recourse through Reddit - there is a tacit understanding that mods can behave as badly as they want and abuse their position because otherwise how do you incentivise a volunteer role - it seems that there is no way to discourage such activities.

Let's assess what has happened to me, all of which is done to achieve the goal of driving me out the business or have me fired. After being consistently pestered to jump through hoops just to have my content find its audience, my content was banned for no other reason than to apply pressure to my employers. On top of that, if you search my name the first thing that comes up is a "Subreddit ruling" about me and my work that not only contains false information and judgements about me but also flaunts Reddit's claims to privacy as well. My Reddit "activities" have not only been shared with the public but also Riot staff. Odd given how upset they are when their behaviour is dragged into public view. I didn't sign an agreement to observe user privacy as I'm not a moderator on a sub. Of course, these agreements and modiquette in general is never enforced for the reason I mentioned above.

If you think that people should be able to do this behind an alias because moderating an internet forum affords them some sort of special protected rights, I think you are very wrong.

2. Reddit is a for-profit platform; your usage of it is a privilege, not a right. This is the same with Teamliquid or anywhere else. They can technically exclude you for any reasons or no reasons at all. They can technically kick you out for having short hair, wearing glasses, or because your last name starts with letter L. Reddit is not a public government service and they have no obligation to include you.


Which is right. So Reddit need to say it instead of pretending to be an open platform. Reddit staff publicly talk about how Reddit is all about communities. They declared themselves to be a government and that they have a moral obligation not to abuse their power. (http://www.reddit.com/r/blog/comments/2foivo/every_man_is_responsible_for_his_own_soul/). The mods won't even add the fact my content is banned to the official rules because they know when written down for all to see it's absurd.

Keep in mind the furore when the r/politics sub banned Mother Jones on the ground it was "blogspam" when it's a Pulitzer prize winning publication. Why did they do this? Most mods had political leanings far removed from that of the staff at Mother Jones so they just out and out censored it, and other publications, for reasons that were a complete fiction. The story made national news and the decision had to be retracted. That's because Reddit does have huge power. It's in the top ten websites on the internet in terms of traffic. They either stick to their values or they admit they were all a sham. No half measures. I'm indifferent to what they choose as long as they are honest and consistent.

That being said, I am not denying that there is a problem. The /r/lol reddit is too big and too inclusive. While I will strongly disagree with you that there is any tangible "Riot influence" on the /r/lol mods, I am definitely concerned with other third-party influences. For example, if I run theScore, can I give 10K dollars to the mods so /r/lol will ban contents from one of my competitors (e.g. DailyDot)?


Again, smoke and mirrors deployed on this issue by those in the wrong. I think it is absolutely news-worthy, in e-sports terms, to report that LoL mods have entered into contracts (NDAs) with Riot Games. Not one other sub I have contacted, be it gaming or otherwise, engages in such activities. Yet it has been passed off as harmless and somehow necessary because 1) Riot insist everyone sign NDAs (yeah, look at the other companies that operate that way) so it's obviously benign and 2) It helps the mods deliver a better service because they can communicate about server outages. Yet I know that the mods have contacted Riot about users other than myself and their Reddit behaviour and suggest this is acceptable. The key thing was Riot and the mods smeared me publicly so people were too busy focusing on me "being an asshole" to actually want an answer to a very important question - "why are NDAs happening at all when everyone else manages not to do it?"

That was just a hypothetical question, of course, my bigger concern with /r/lol is that not all mods know what are banned and what are not banned. A few months back I complained really loudly about this "secret blacklist" of banned domains on /r/lol, and my impression is that because the blacklist is so complicated that only a few mods know what it is and who are on it (I can tell you for sure that my blog was banned on /r/lol and it was definitely not due to the things /u/Tjonke mentioned. This makes it super easy for a third-party organization to bribe a single mod to modify the "secret blacklist" - and no other mods will ever know about it.


Absolutely and of course stuff like this goes on all the time on other subs but the LoL sub is ripe for it. It's the biggest non-default sub, one of the biggest on the whole of Reddit. Riot have reached out to other subs and ask they sign NDAs too, like r/summonerschool, so where does that tie into the "providing a better service" party line? It is of course about one thing - control.

Blacklists like that should be public for the same reasons mods should be publicly accountable. Sadly Reddit has positioned itself as too powerful to operate on premises that made sense when it was small.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-10 18:21:32
May 10 2015 18:18 GMT
#118
I thought it has already been established by your good friend Bryce that the NDA the mod signed was mostly harmless? That NDA is almost entirely unenforceable for a number of reasons. Also, from all levels of analysis the NDA seems to be for sharing Riot's server status information; when it comes to sharing information with third-party entities, NDAs are very standard practices. I also saw no indication that a /r/lol HAVE to sign the NDA - although I don't deny the possibility of political pressure on the issue.

In any case, IMO third-party influences are far more damaging than Riot's perceived or real influence over /r/lol. Riot has a lot of influence over /r/lol regardless if there was an NDA or not and it's not going to magically go away. At the end of the day, it's a forum for discussion of the game they made and they have a huge amount of influence simply by doing nothing. Third-party influence is a different story. For example, DailyDot and theScore are essentially competitors and we all know theScore has a LOT of money invested. What if, in a hypothetical scenario, theScore bribes a /r/lol mod with 10K dollars and bans the DailyDot domains because of "Twitter brigade" or <insert arbitrary reason here>? The amount of damage that can cause to the community is mind-boggling.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Chexx
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)11232 Posts
May 10 2015 20:15 GMT
#119
I still think the main reason why the Subreddit didnt receive your NDA message was that you weaved together the news and your opinion.

I think it would have been better to separate it

News, why its unusual (no other subreddit does it) etc

My opinion:
your thoughts here why its bad etc

WriterFollow me @TL_Chexx
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-11 04:21:36
May 11 2015 04:17 GMT
#120
On May 11 2015 00:34 RichardLewis wrote:
Show nested quote +
Hi Richard,

On reddit, you managed to belittle someone by talking about a video he made in highschool. Apparently you found this video on his Facebook. I am pretty impressed, since you must have gotten his real name and other sensitive information via a reddit handle. I am curious as to how you did it.


Googled his username. It linked to an account on another website where he posted his video. I posted video. He said it was his. Elite level doxxing obviously.

Show nested quote +
Secondly, on the video you posted, you showed a screenshot of your Linkdin being examined by a reddit mod. I am curious how you found out that's a reddit mod. Since you chose to blur out the names, I can only assume this isn't some publically available information. You must have figured out that person's real name somehow.


I do know the names of the mods. Found that out over a year ago, as I said I would on Twitter. I still don't understand why it's OK for them to gun after people's jobs - keep in mind they already made William Turton quit after smearing him in public and stating he'd reported inaccurate information, which was accurate - but their real names are somehow sacrosanct.

Show nested quote +
Of course you could just be doing all of this for your own research purposes (not doxing), but it does seem to me that you are very good at digging up information from the internet. It's like you carrying a loaded gun and not afraid to tell other people that you have a loaded gun; you can shoot people with it, but you insist that you won't do it. So at this point it's a matter of whether or not we can trust you with the loaded gun.


I believe people who have power over people's livelihoods should not be able to hide behind anonymous usernames and exert their influence without any potential reprisals. I think most people agree this is sensible. Ironically, the moderators are effectively proving the arguments that are used about trolls - that anonymity will make people behave in unreasonable ways they wouldn't if their identity was on display.

I'm not against anonymity to level the playing field against oppressive governments or other noble causes. Hiding behind an alias for the sole purpose of not wanting to be held accountable when you fuck with people's lives is far from noble. I don't even use a gamer alias these days because I believe that as someone who reports on things I need to be transparent too.

To put it simply, if someone harms you, you can hold them liable. Of course most people don't understand how the court system works, and choose to use the administrative side where they often lose.

Also given the type of users that reddit attracts (especially "mods"), people shouldn't be surprised they want to create giant blacklists and harm people.

On May 11 2015 01:58 Sufficiency wrote:
1. I don't think it's up to you to decide whose anonymity is appropriate. In the US, "public figures" have almost no protection on their privacy, but the laws may be different elsewhere and it's not even clear if the mods are considered public figures in the US.


For something, or someone to be public, there must only be a single iota of publicness. If you step out of your house for a second, you are a public figure.
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