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On July 25 2025 03:16 Agh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2025 03:11 Lexender wrote:On July 25 2025 03:08 darklycid wrote:On July 25 2025 03:06 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 25 2025 03:03 Sameday wrote:Clem just played like garbage, honestly he might as well play Protoss vs Protoss because his last 3 TvP series have been bad. His crazy APM gave an advantage over the right opponents in the last patch, but in this patch you have to hit timings against Protoss players, and you either man up and do it or you lose (and probably lose because PvT in pro level right now is like 80% favored for Toss) Classic didn't even have to try and didn't play particularly well. In two of the games Classic basically gave him a free win, losing 10 probes on 2 bases to a basic cyclone marine drop, and had a Robo + obs and still lost like 20 probes to banshees. Even a Diamond NA Toss would've pulled the probes vs a Cyclone drop. As soon as Clem killed all those probes and saved his banshees in game 3, it should've been an immediate SCV pulls joining the banshees. + Show Spoiler +It seems like only Maru seems to mildly understand the state of Terran vs Protoss. The matchup has COMPLETELY CHANGED because of Energy Recharge being imbalanced. It needs to be removed from the game entirely. It gives a high templar over a minute of energy, so the timings need to be over a full minute earlier. If you go banshee with cloak you can slow down storm a bit or reduce the zealot count a bit. If the get storms out, bring only a handful of SCVs, if they go charge/colossus just bring as many as you can. You aren't winning late game unless the Protoss makes a silly mistake. Late game TvP isn't even debatable, it favors Protoss entirely. The longer the game goes, the more army a Protoss can warp in during the middle of each fight. The easier they can defend drops, etc. The Protoss controls late game no matter what, if they see after the last battle you lost some vikings, they can chrono out 3 colossus at a time. 7 vikings flying after last battle? Zealot, Stalker, High Templars. It's super easy and the Terran needs to be completely balanced inbetween each fight composition wise. Vs a same skill opponent, it's just not going to happen unless they make a goofy mistake. The game needs a balance patch to remove Energy Recharge, and possibly revert the High Templar attack so Protoss players actually have to play decently to beat their equals/superiors. You can tell the matchup is imbalanced because a mid-grade EU protoss like Goblin was able to knock out tons of Tier 1 Terrans even though he's a Tier 3 player. When you have tier 3 players consistently knocking out tier 1 players in ONLY one matchup consistently, it says it all. The spectators deserve better than this. Since release, Terran vs Protoss hasn't been in this bad of a state. And before you say 'Terran tears'. I am a Grandmaster Protoss main. It just sucks when one matchup isn't fun at all to watch anymore. You can literally predict the match as soon as you see Storm or Thermal lance finish upgrading. "Oh, he got thermal lance and isn't dead, 95% chance he wins now". Agreed 100%. Thanks for making this post. Pvt this Tournament is 13-11 so far btw. But no korean protoss has lost a series to terran, the only P that got eliminated from a PvT where Astrea, Trigger and Showtime. Granted, there hasnt been enough PvTs in general. Oh man we're back to Korean foreigner comparisons in current year, what a time to be alive.
Serral, Reynor, Clem are only foreigners who play on the same level as (or better than!) Korean pros. Every other foreigner is going to get knocked out pretty fast when playing vs a gauntlet of Maru, Cure, Classic, herO, Solar, Rogue, Shin, Byun, etc.
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On July 25 2025 03:12 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2025 03:08 darklycid wrote:On July 25 2025 03:06 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 25 2025 03:03 Sameday wrote:Clem just played like garbage, honestly he might as well play Protoss vs Protoss because his last 3 TvP series have been bad. His crazy APM gave an advantage over the right opponents in the last patch, but in this patch you have to hit timings against Protoss players, and you either man up and do it or you lose (and probably lose because PvT in pro level right now is like 80% favored for Toss) Classic didn't even have to try and didn't play particularly well. In two of the games Classic basically gave him a free win, losing 10 probes on 2 bases to a basic cyclone marine drop, and had a Robo + obs and still lost like 20 probes to banshees. Even a Diamond NA Toss would've pulled the probes vs a Cyclone drop. As soon as Clem killed all those probes and saved his banshees in game 3, it should've been an immediate SCV pulls joining the banshees. + Show Spoiler +It seems like only Maru seems to mildly understand the state of Terran vs Protoss. The matchup has COMPLETELY CHANGED because of Energy Recharge being imbalanced. It needs to be removed from the game entirely. It gives a high templar over a minute of energy, so the timings need to be over a full minute earlier. If you go banshee with cloak you can slow down storm a bit or reduce the zealot count a bit. If the get storms out, bring only a handful of SCVs, if they go charge/colossus just bring as many as you can. You aren't winning late game unless the Protoss makes a silly mistake. Late game TvP isn't even debatable, it favors Protoss entirely. The longer the game goes, the more army a Protoss can warp in during the middle of each fight. The easier they can defend drops, etc. The Protoss controls late game no matter what, if they see after the last battle you lost some vikings, they can chrono out 3 colossus at a time. 7 vikings flying after last battle? Zealot, Stalker, High Templars. It's super easy and the Terran needs to be completely balanced inbetween each fight composition wise. Vs a same skill opponent, it's just not going to happen unless they make a goofy mistake. The game needs a balance patch to remove Energy Recharge, and possibly revert the High Templar attack so Protoss players actually have to play decently to beat their equals/superiors. You can tell the matchup is imbalanced because a mid-grade EU protoss like Goblin was able to knock out tons of Tier 1 Terrans even though he's a Tier 3 player. When you have tier 3 players consistently knocking out tier 1 players in ONLY one matchup consistently, it says it all. The spectators deserve better than this. Since release, Terran vs Protoss hasn't been in this bad of a state. And before you say 'Terran tears'. I am a Grandmaster Protoss main. It just sucks when one matchup isn't fun at all to watch anymore. You can literally predict the match as soon as you see Storm or Thermal lance finish upgrading. "Oh, he got thermal lance and isn't dead, 95% chance he wins now". Agreed 100%. Thanks for making this post. Pvt this Tournament is 13-11 so far btw. Thanks Astrea, trigger and ShoWTimE for being free food  Thanks Clem for beating a top terran with offrace protoss
lol Byun is not a top terran. He been mid / low tiers for now
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France12911 Posts
On July 25 2025 03:21 TeamMamba wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2025 03:12 Poopi wrote:On July 25 2025 03:08 darklycid wrote:On July 25 2025 03:06 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 25 2025 03:03 Sameday wrote:Clem just played like garbage, honestly he might as well play Protoss vs Protoss because his last 3 TvP series have been bad. His crazy APM gave an advantage over the right opponents in the last patch, but in this patch you have to hit timings against Protoss players, and you either man up and do it or you lose (and probably lose because PvT in pro level right now is like 80% favored for Toss) Classic didn't even have to try and didn't play particularly well. In two of the games Classic basically gave him a free win, losing 10 probes on 2 bases to a basic cyclone marine drop, and had a Robo + obs and still lost like 20 probes to banshees. Even a Diamond NA Toss would've pulled the probes vs a Cyclone drop. As soon as Clem killed all those probes and saved his banshees in game 3, it should've been an immediate SCV pulls joining the banshees. + Show Spoiler +It seems like only Maru seems to mildly understand the state of Terran vs Protoss. The matchup has COMPLETELY CHANGED because of Energy Recharge being imbalanced. It needs to be removed from the game entirely. It gives a high templar over a minute of energy, so the timings need to be over a full minute earlier. If you go banshee with cloak you can slow down storm a bit or reduce the zealot count a bit. If the get storms out, bring only a handful of SCVs, if they go charge/colossus just bring as many as you can. You aren't winning late game unless the Protoss makes a silly mistake. Late game TvP isn't even debatable, it favors Protoss entirely. The longer the game goes, the more army a Protoss can warp in during the middle of each fight. The easier they can defend drops, etc. The Protoss controls late game no matter what, if they see after the last battle you lost some vikings, they can chrono out 3 colossus at a time. 7 vikings flying after last battle? Zealot, Stalker, High Templars. It's super easy and the Terran needs to be completely balanced inbetween each fight composition wise. Vs a same skill opponent, it's just not going to happen unless they make a goofy mistake. The game needs a balance patch to remove Energy Recharge, and possibly revert the High Templar attack so Protoss players actually have to play decently to beat their equals/superiors. You can tell the matchup is imbalanced because a mid-grade EU protoss like Goblin was able to knock out tons of Tier 1 Terrans even though he's a Tier 3 player. When you have tier 3 players consistently knocking out tier 1 players in ONLY one matchup consistently, it says it all. The spectators deserve better than this. Since release, Terran vs Protoss hasn't been in this bad of a state. And before you say 'Terran tears'. I am a Grandmaster Protoss main. It just sucks when one matchup isn't fun at all to watch anymore. You can literally predict the match as soon as you see Storm or Thermal lance finish upgrading. "Oh, he got thermal lance and isn't dead, 95% chance he wins now". Agreed 100%. Thanks for making this post. Pvt this Tournament is 13-11 so far btw. Thanks Astrea, trigger and ShoWTimE for being free food Thanks Clem for beating a top terran with offrace protoss lol Byun is not a top terran. He been mid / low tiers for now
http://aligulac.com/
Top 9 overall, top 4 right behind Cure
He is a top terran, always has been.
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On July 25 2025 03:16 Agh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2025 03:11 Lexender wrote:On July 25 2025 03:08 darklycid wrote:On July 25 2025 03:06 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On July 25 2025 03:03 Sameday wrote:Clem just played like garbage, honestly he might as well play Protoss vs Protoss because his last 3 TvP series have been bad. His crazy APM gave an advantage over the right opponents in the last patch, but in this patch you have to hit timings against Protoss players, and you either man up and do it or you lose (and probably lose because PvT in pro level right now is like 80% favored for Toss) Classic didn't even have to try and didn't play particularly well. In two of the games Classic basically gave him a free win, losing 10 probes on 2 bases to a basic cyclone marine drop, and had a Robo + obs and still lost like 20 probes to banshees. Even a Diamond NA Toss would've pulled the probes vs a Cyclone drop. As soon as Clem killed all those probes and saved his banshees in game 3, it should've been an immediate SCV pulls joining the banshees. + Show Spoiler +It seems like only Maru seems to mildly understand the state of Terran vs Protoss. The matchup has COMPLETELY CHANGED because of Energy Recharge being imbalanced. It needs to be removed from the game entirely. It gives a high templar over a minute of energy, so the timings need to be over a full minute earlier. If you go banshee with cloak you can slow down storm a bit or reduce the zealot count a bit. If the get storms out, bring only a handful of SCVs, if they go charge/colossus just bring as many as you can. You aren't winning late game unless the Protoss makes a silly mistake. Late game TvP isn't even debatable, it favors Protoss entirely. The longer the game goes, the more army a Protoss can warp in during the middle of each fight. The easier they can defend drops, etc. The Protoss controls late game no matter what, if they see after the last battle you lost some vikings, they can chrono out 3 colossus at a time. 7 vikings flying after last battle? Zealot, Stalker, High Templars. It's super easy and the Terran needs to be completely balanced inbetween each fight composition wise. Vs a same skill opponent, it's just not going to happen unless they make a goofy mistake. The game needs a balance patch to remove Energy Recharge, and possibly revert the High Templar attack so Protoss players actually have to play decently to beat their equals/superiors. You can tell the matchup is imbalanced because a mid-grade EU protoss like Goblin was able to knock out tons of Tier 1 Terrans even though he's a Tier 3 player. When you have tier 3 players consistently knocking out tier 1 players in ONLY one matchup consistently, it says it all. The spectators deserve better than this. Since release, Terran vs Protoss hasn't been in this bad of a state. And before you say 'Terran tears'. I am a Grandmaster Protoss main. It just sucks when one matchup isn't fun at all to watch anymore. You can literally predict the match as soon as you see Storm or Thermal lance finish upgrading. "Oh, he got thermal lance and isn't dead, 95% chance he wins now". Agreed 100%. Thanks for making this post. Pvt this Tournament is 13-11 so far btw. But no korean protoss has lost a series to terran, the only P that got eliminated from a PvT where Astrea, Trigger and Showtime. Granted, there hasnt been enough PvTs in general. Oh man we're back to Korean foreigner comparisons in current year, what a time to be alive.
You are just moving the goal posts now.
The three combined had a 1-6 record, only Showtime winning a series vs Cyan in TvP, Astrea didn't even made it into group stages. They were the bottom of the groups along Lambo and Heromarine.
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On July 25 2025 03:05 SHODAN wrote:
protoss players are just better on every metric. I mean just look at Classic. he's smarter than Clem, faster than Clem, and way more handsome than Clem. terran just attracts less skilled players I guess. maybe in the next few years some young blood "terran Serral" will rise through the ranks and show us how terran is supposed to be played
Protoss and Zergs has always been smarter and better players for years now. Terran players are just brainless brutes who goes mmm all game and try to force their way in. No style or no thinking I involved
Clem had his “Serral” moment at last years EWC. Clem might have been slowly figured out since he played in all those weekly online cups
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On July 25 2025 03:03 Sameday wrote:Clem just played like garbage, honestly he might as well play Protoss vs Protoss because his last 3 TvP series have been bad. His crazy APM gave an advantage over the right opponents in the last patch, but in this patch you have to hit timings against Protoss players, and you either man up and do it or you lose (and probably lose because PvT in pro level right now is like 80% favored for Toss) Classic didn't even have to try and didn't play particularly well. In two of the games Classic basically gave him a free win, losing 10 probes on 2 bases to a basic cyclone marine drop, and had a Robo + obs and still lost like 20 probes to banshees. Even a Diamond NA Toss would've pulled the probes vs a Cyclone drop. As soon as Clem killed all those probes and saved his banshees in game 3, it should've been an immediate SCV pulls joining the banshees. + Show Spoiler +It seems like only Maru seems to mildly understand the state of Terran vs Protoss. The matchup has COMPLETELY CHANGED because of Energy Recharge being imbalanced. It needs to be removed from the game entirely. It gives a high templar over a minute of energy, so the timings need to be over a full minute earlier. If you go banshee with cloak you can slow down storm a bit or reduce the zealot count a bit. If the get storms out, bring only a handful of SCVs, if they go charge/colossus just bring as many as you can. You aren't winning late game unless the Protoss makes a silly mistake. Late game TvP isn't even debatable, it favors Protoss entirely. The longer the game goes, the more army a Protoss can warp in during the middle of each fight. The easier they can defend drops, etc. The Protoss controls late game no matter what, if they see after the last battle you lost some vikings, they can chrono out 3 colossus at a time. 7 vikings flying after last battle? Zealot, Stalker, High Templars. It's super easy and the Terran needs to be completely balanced inbetween each fight composition wise. Vs a same skill opponent, it's just not going to happen unless they make a goofy mistake. The game needs a balance patch to remove Energy Recharge, and possibly revert the High Templar attack so Protoss players actually have to play decently to beat their equals/superiors. You can tell the matchup is imbalanced because a mid-grade EU protoss like Goblin was able to knock out tons of Tier 1 Terrans even though he's a Tier 3 player. When you have tier 3 players consistently knocking out tier 1 players in ONLY one matchup consistently, it says it all. The spectators deserve better than this. Since release, Terran vs Protoss hasn't been in this bad of a state. And before you say 'Terran tears'. I am a Grandmaster Protoss main. It just sucks when one matchup isn't fun at all to watch anymore. You can literally predict the match as soon as you see Storm or Thermal lance finish upgrading. "Oh, he got thermal lance and isn't dead, 95% chance he wins now".
well I am a former grandmaster terran main and I disagree with you on several points. the last thing sc2 needs is a balance patch! energy overcharge is perfectly fine. truth is, "top tier" terrans are like diamond league level skill compared to the top protoss and zerg. protoss players are just superior in every way. you're right about one thing: the spectators deserve better than this. scrubs like Maru and Clem just take up too much space in the tournament brackets. those spots could have went to some actually talented sc2 players, like Creator, Astrea, Krystianer, SoS or goblin. tbh, I think we should just ban terran from playing in major tournaments. to me, terran is more of a cute fun "campaign" race that you play solo, like naga from wc3 - or like a fun hero race that you play in co-op commander. it doesn't have any place in the professional scene.
I do agree that Maru is probably the best terran abuser of them all versus protoss. his timings are really nasty, and sometimes he even manages to get a medivac into the protoss' base and kills 1 probe! even when toss knows it's coming and build a shield battery, it does nothing. well let's make things fair, why not?? I propose that stalkers should have a widow mine ability, like vulture from starcraft blood war: except stalker should plant them from their buttholes like a hen laying eggs. I also think it's weird that dark templar don't get a cool ability like the high templar. why not give them dark psi storm, just in case you warp in a DT by accident instead of high templar?
obviously protoss should win in the lategame automatically. tbh, the balance council should just add a special win condition for TvP only, so protoss insta-win if the game goes longer than 12 minutes. if terran is still alive at that point, they are just turtling and trying to waste your time. they have no chance anyway. staying in the game at that point as terran is just as toxic as lifting your buildings and flying them to the corner of the map
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Northern Ireland26626 Posts
Terrans and balance whining, name a more iconic combination…
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Must be pretty frustrating for Serral...he skipped so many tournaments during the "Road to EWC" to prepare for it, put a lot of work into figuring out Clem, Maru, Reynor and herO...and he only played one of them.
Seriously though, who honestly would have thought that from the Top 5 of 2024 (not counting Dark as he has retired) only one would make it into the semis and they barely eliminated each other?!
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On July 25 2025 03:33 WombaT wrote:
Terrans and balance whining, name a more iconic combination…
Bio ghost viking and colossus storm deathball.
15 years and that MU somehow ends up being the same everytime.
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On July 25 2025 03:33 WombaT wrote:
Terrans and balance whining, name a more iconic combination…
protoss apologists and 25,211 TL.net posts + zero ladder games played since 2011? 
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On July 25 2025 03:33 WombaT wrote:
Terrans and balance whining, name a more iconic combination…
Always been the same. When Terran loses, balance whiners comes out in full force. When a terran wins, it’s cause they played like gOdLIKe.
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On July 25 2025 03:45 SHODAN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2025 03:33 WombaT wrote:
Terrans and balance whining, name a more iconic combination… protoss apologists and 25,211 TL.net posts + zero ladder games played since 2011?
LOL hear that WombaT? You're a Protoss apologist now. That's rich.
Guess this one isn't aware of how many times you've cracked the whip on the Protoss who were balance whining over the last 4-5 years.
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On July 25 2025 04:20 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2025 03:45 SHODAN wrote:On July 25 2025 03:33 WombaT wrote:
Terrans and balance whining, name a more iconic combination… protoss apologists and 25,211 TL.net posts + zero ladder games played since 2011? LOL hear that WombaT? You're a Protoss apologist now. That's rich. Guess this one isn't aware of how many times you've cracked the whip on the Protoss who were balance whining over the last 4-5 years.
I swear by Almighty God that I will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I have witnessed the WombaT, in the flesh, pint in hand, laughing his ass off about how stupid Khaydarin Amulet was in WoL. now we have the exact same shit patched back into the game and apparently it's ok 
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On July 25 2025 04:28 SHODAN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2025 04:20 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 25 2025 03:45 SHODAN wrote:On July 25 2025 03:33 WombaT wrote:
Terrans and balance whining, name a more iconic combination… protoss apologists and 25,211 TL.net posts + zero ladder games played since 2011? LOL hear that WombaT? You're a Protoss apologist now. That's rich. Guess this one isn't aware of how many times you've cracked the whip on the Protoss who were balance whining over the last 4-5 years. I swear by Almighty God that I will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I have witnessed the WombaT, in the flesh, pint in hand, laughing his ass off about how stupid Khaydarin Amulet was in WoL. now we have the exact same shit patched back into the game and apparently it's ok
It's not the same thing, that's not helping your argument.
If you want to complain about Nexus Recharge there's plenty you can say about it without saying that it's the same thing as Khaydarian Amulet. That kind of hyperbole just makes people stop taking what you say seriously.
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On July 25 2025 04:32 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2025 04:28 SHODAN wrote:On July 25 2025 04:20 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 25 2025 03:45 SHODAN wrote:On July 25 2025 03:33 WombaT wrote:
Terrans and balance whining, name a more iconic combination… protoss apologists and 25,211 TL.net posts + zero ladder games played since 2011? LOL hear that WombaT? You're a Protoss apologist now. That's rich. Guess this one isn't aware of how many times you've cracked the whip on the Protoss who were balance whining over the last 4-5 years. I swear by Almighty God that I will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I have witnessed the WombaT, in the flesh, pint in hand, laughing his ass off about how stupid Khaydarin Amulet was in WoL. now we have the exact same shit patched back into the game and apparently it's ok It's not the same thing, that's not helping your argument. If you want to complain about Nexus Recharge there's plenty you can say about it without saying that it's the same thing as Khaydarian Amulet. That kind of hyperbole just makes people stop taking what you say seriously.
you're right of course. bad comparison! amulet is nowhere near as dumb as Energy Overcharge. Amulet was only 1 insta-storm. energy overcharge is 2 insta-storms!
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France12911 Posts
I mean Protoss is a bit overtuned in PvT atm but Classic still played out of his mind, I wonder how a match versus Maru would have been since he seems like the only other terran alongside Clem who wins versus strong protoss atm
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On July 25 2025 05:11 Poopi wrote:
I mean Protoss is a bit overtuned in PvT atm but Classic still played out of his mind, I wonder how a match versus Maru would have fine since he seems like the only other terran alongside Clem who wins versus strong protoss atm
yeah, I'm sure Maru had a few tricks up his sleeve for herO and Classic. Maru vs Classic was my dream match for EWC. sharp timings and anti-timings galore. shame we won't get to see it, but that's how it goes. his games against trigger offer a taste of where he's at in the matchup. weird stimless banshee / tank timings and 2-base SCV pulls
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On July 25 2025 01:38 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2025 01:02 TeamMamba wrote:On July 25 2025 00:56 Gescom wrote:On July 25 2025 00:51 WombaT wrote:
Not every loss is a choke, fook sake!
If anything, Maru showed some pretty clutch play in pulling the boys while down match point and behind in the last set. Unfortunately for him Cure pulled a similarly clutch kill move.
Maru’s found basically every way to lose WCs, I think him losing to Oliveira was maybe the only real example of his play just falling apart in a choking fashion.
He’s been hard-countered by a teammate’s series planning (sOs), been battered by the superior player at the time (Serral). He’s planned a series awfully, dismantling a player with incredible defensive macro games and then throwing out garbage builds (Reynor)
Being clutch and a choker aren’t the only two options on the table. Hot/based take, but IMO Maru fans drastically overestimate his skill level (particularly in 2025) and think the only way he can lose is because he choked, not because he was outplayed by a 'superior player at the time'. Maru fans has always overestimated him. They make the most nonsense excuses for him after every elimination. Such as jet lag, hiding builds, stubborn, toss Zerg Op etc Outside of that very terran favourite patch in 2018-2019. Take that year away and Maru wouldn’t even be in this nonsense goat talks. Maru has been the big fish in a little pond in korea for years. There is a reason why he has never wrong a world title because he doesn’t have that “it” factor. Most fans and even the haters can recognize Serral skills through the eye test. Take any year away from Serral and he will still be the consensus goat Terran favored patch in 2018-2019? Dude you just discredited everything you wanted to say. Go look at the Blizzcon finals of 2019. Look how many Zergs are in it. You literally picked the most imbalanced era we've had since LoTV freshly launched and you picked the wrong race that it was in favor of.
I am currently working on a balance-multiplier for my new GOAT list. For that I analyze top tier tournaments for race map win rates... they are not completely done, but so far in 2018's TvZ stands at 51,66% (so slightly Terran favored) and 2019's 48,06% (slightly Zerg favored). This is still not done completely.
For the methodology: Only non region locks were looked at and tournaments had to have a minimum amount of players and maps to avoid including data, where one Korean butchered a couple of Chinese players.
On EWC:
Overall the games have been an absolute banger. Starting off with this insane ZvZ between Serral and Reynor... I think we can take over Faker's moniker and call Serral the unkillable demong king of SC2 at this point in time. Absolute banger series...
Classic defeating Clem 3-0 was quite a shocker, although many put him as the strongest Protoss in the tournament.
Serral now is most likely grabbing his third title, especially because of the much longer series ahead.
Iirc he only ever lost Bo7s versus Terrans against INno and Clem after turning full time pro, so Cure's chances don't seem to high. Him losing a mirror is probably more realistic (especially as it is Solar who was the last Zerg to defeat Serral before Dark), although I hardly see anyone defeating him in a Bo9 except Clem. Classic might have a change as the games in the 0-3 have been much closer than the result tells.
Either way, we will have a great final day tomorrow.
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This gotta be an epic rematch of Serral vs Classic in the finals
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On July 25 2025 05:29 PremoBeats wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2025 01:38 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 25 2025 01:02 TeamMamba wrote:On July 25 2025 00:56 Gescom wrote:On July 25 2025 00:51 WombaT wrote:
Not every loss is a choke, fook sake!
If anything, Maru showed some pretty clutch play in pulling the boys while down match point and behind in the last set. Unfortunately for him Cure pulled a similarly clutch kill move.
Maru’s found basically every way to lose WCs, I think him losing to Oliveira was maybe the only real example of his play just falling apart in a choking fashion.
He’s been hard-countered by a teammate’s series planning (sOs), been battered by the superior player at the time (Serral). He’s planned a series awfully, dismantling a player with incredible defensive macro games and then throwing out garbage builds (Reynor)
Being clutch and a choker aren’t the only two options on the table. Hot/based take, but IMO Maru fans drastically overestimate his skill level (particularly in 2025) and think the only way he can lose is because he choked, not because he was outplayed by a 'superior player at the time'. Maru fans has always overestimated him. They make the most nonsense excuses for him after every elimination. Such as jet lag, hiding builds, stubborn, toss Zerg Op etc Outside of that very terran favourite patch in 2018-2019. Take that year away and Maru wouldn’t even be in this nonsense goat talks. Maru has been the big fish in a little pond in korea for years. There is a reason why he has never wrong a world title because he doesn’t have that “it” factor. Most fans and even the haters can recognize Serral skills through the eye test. Take any year away from Serral and he will still be the consensus goat Terran favored patch in 2018-2019? Dude you just discredited everything you wanted to say. Go look at the Blizzcon finals of 2019. Look how many Zergs are in it. You literally picked the most imbalanced era we've had since LoTV freshly launched and you picked the wrong race that it was in favor of. I am currently working on a balance-multiplier for my new GOAT list. For that I analyze top tier tournaments for race map win rates... they are not completely done, but so far in 2018's TvZ stands at 51,66% (so slightly Terran favored) and 2019's 48,06% (slightly Zerg favored). This is still not done completely. For the methodology: Only non region locks were looked at and tournaments had to have a minimum amount of players and maps to avoid including data, where one Korean butchered a couple of Chinese players. On EWC: Overall the games have been an absolute banger. Starting off with this insane ZvZ between Serral and Reynor... I think we can take over Faker's moniker and call Serral the unkillable demong king of SC2 at this point in time. Absolute banger series... Classic defeating Clem 3-0 was quite a shocker, although many put him as the strongest Protoss in the tournament. Serral now is most likely grabbing his third title, especially because of the much longer series ahead. Iirc he only ever lost Bo7s versus Terrans against INno and Clem after turning full time pro, so Cure's chances don't seem to high. Him losing a mirror is probably more realistic (especially as it is Solar who was the last Zerg to defeat Serral before Dark), although I hardly see anyone defeating him in a Bo9 except Clem. Classic might have a change as the games in the 0-3 have been much closer than the result tells. Either way, we will have a great final day tomorrow.
If you want to use any stats to convince people that 2019 is not zerg-op patch it's a dead end. Everyone who watched the games know and remember what happened. 5 zergs in ro8, 3 zergs in ro4. Saying 2018/2019 is terran-favored patch is hilarious. Maru was the last terran in GSL 2018 also Blizzcon WCS 2019.
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EPT
