On June 07 2022 21:30 tigera6 wrote: Are the qualifier region-locked? If so, EU with 12 slots is ridiculously too many considering Serral and Reynor are invited already.
Yes it is region locked.
From signup numbers for the KR Qualifiers every one who signed up so far would qualify ... meanwhile EU already has 44 signups.
And if you compare it to low tier regions like OCE your comment is ludicrous.
NA with 2 seeds will mean of the 3 competitive NA players we will have 2, so I personally do not see any issues for that region either.
Btw. the invite of Serral is due to him being World Champ, so it has nothing to do with the region. (Reynor was 2nd in IEM btw.)
Tbh. imo EU and KR should haven gotten 1 more slot each and the low tier regions (NA, LatAm, CN, TW, OCE) should have had 1 single Qualifier with 4 slots total.
Please tell me you are joking, you are saying that the top 12-14 players in EU is head and shoulder above the other regions top 2-3 players in NA-LA-TW-OCE? I mean, no disrespect to EU players in general, but how the hell we can miss one of Scarlett-Astrea-Neeb from the tournament just because EU has 12 slot and NA has 2 slots? Thats not counting the players who are actually looking pretty good in the DH NA tournament recently like Disk and Trigger. Also that means Has and Nice will have one guy missing the tournament because of the stupid region restriction.
Like how did we go from a typical DH slot allocation of 6-4-2-1-1-1-1 to a 12-12-2-1-1-1-1 format for this tournament and acting like we care about developing/giving support for the lesser region? Could we have a common qualifier where we have 4-6 slot that can be fought between player from different regions, at least giving them a chance to compete for more slots?
There is a caveat, that this is an offline event and not all players outside of EU are willing to travel there. So its fair if more slots are given to EU players just base off availability alone, but thats why I think we should have a common qualifier for all the regions to compete if they are good enough and want to travel to the event.
i mean idk about head and shoulders but if we for example look at the top 12 of the current DH Valencia for EU it goes:
i don't feel super confident saying Scarlett is CLEARLY better than those guys, for example.
Scarlett is definitely better than several of those players and at least somewhat close to half of them. 2 slots for NA does lower the competitions skill level.
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I personally disagree with your statement. Can Scarlett win matches against those players? Yes. Is she better? I don't think so. There is not one player I would favor Scarlett in a bo5 right now.
If you want to go through it:
Serral - Scarlett is worse Lambo - Scarlett is worse Reynor - Scarlett is worse Showtime - Scarlett is worse Elazer - Scarlett is worse Clem - Scarlett is worse Harstem - on current meta PvZ I believe Harstem is better Heromarine - Scarlett is worse Maxpax - Scarlett is worse Rattata - Scarlett is even, potentially better depending on her form Spirit - Scarlett is worse but I think Spirit is shaky in performance sometimes Skillous - SKillous current form is also better than Scarlett ZvP
Scarlett looked pretty bad against Neeb and Astrea in her ZvP. I know she is a player that can destroy when she is on point but her current form didn't look super great. The weaker players on that list which would be
Harstem, Rattata, Spirit and SKillous for most are still in the current form at least competetive if not better. Saying 2 slots for NA makes the competition worse is just wrong. If you would host global qualifiers on the NA server (15 with 2 slots each) I doubt we would see Astrea, Neeb and Scarlett qualify.
Scarlett has been performing poor lately but is still higher than 3 of them on aligulac. Depending on when this decision was made it's likely she was a decent amount higher on aligulac at that time. I'll admit I was also thinking a lot about historical and potential skill. I give Scarlett a much higher chance of upsetting a top player than Harstem, Spirit, or Rattata even though they're relatively close in rating and recent performance and I don't think that's a controversial thought process.
For your last part I agree but only because I think the spots would be taken by KR players in that scenario. If we look at the last 32 player event with open qualifiers (TSL 8) we had 16 Koreans, 12 EU pros, and 2 NA (with the caveat that Neeb never tried to qualify). EU is already guaranteed 2 more spots than how they performed there.
Don't get me wrong. I am a big Scarlett fan when she is on form. She can put out absolutely stunning performances and has shown to do so but her recent for is at best shaky. Aligulac rating is nice but unfortunately its also a rating that takes into account performance over a long period.
Europe has two invites for the reason of Serral being the current world champion and Reynor being #1 EPT at the time of the invite. If you want to look into recent performance. Harstem did upset Heromarine as top player 3-2 in Dreamhack. Harstem upset ShoWTimE today in HSC qualifiers.
I only agree on Rattata and Spirit who usually do not upset players often but in direct comparison I am still not comfortable to call them WORSE or lowering the skill ceiling. Also I dare say its not guaranteed they qualify in Europe at all. All in all I find it fair to give 2 slots to NA given they have 3 players you can consider top players. No region will feature ALL top players and the requirement to give for example OCE/ROA a slot who have basically no player on European level , nor Korean nor NA I think the split is alright.
Thats an as fair statement as I can make on that matter. You are obviously free to disagree but thats my take on it
PS: TSL had server qualifiers so not 100% accurate. EU gave up 2 slots to Maru&ByuN. NA Scarlett and Astrea qualified so that was still good but there is more to it (casting so I cant fully write it down)
I could agree with the EU players being better up to around top 10 (Serral-Reynor-Clem-HM-MaxPax-Showtime-Lambo-Elazer-Skillous-Harstem). But the other 5 spots (because Serral-Reynor are invited and MaxPax not likely to join) are truly up for grab if you make it a non-region-lock qualifier even against non-KR players.
I would put the top 1 or 2 players in each of the other regions (except OCE) against the rest of the EU guys and feeling good about their chance. Has/Nice are good, Time/Cyan are also good, Special/Kelazhur/Chamr are just as good, and so are Disk/Trigger. As for Scarlett, she did beat Astrea in the DH NA group stage so I am not sure how you are convinced that she is shaky at the moment. If you put the last 3 qualifying slots from EU, 2 from NA, 1 from each other regions (other than OCE) together, and make them all play the qualifier for those 8 slots (if my math is right), would the expected result be more or less slot for EU? Thats where we ultimately disagree on, you think EU would take at least 3 and even more, I think the other regions can take more than the current number of slot base on competition.
Of course any non-region-lock qualifier will ultimately be flooded with KRs anyway so thats not a good solution. Also I, know that because of how things has turned out (Special/Time/Charm didnt even play and Scarlett/Astrea are not signing up so far), it might be a moot point for all of these discussion.
On June 07 2022 21:30 tigera6 wrote: Are the qualifier region-locked? If so, EU with 12 slots is ridiculously too many considering Serral and Reynor are invited already.
Yes it is region locked.
From signup numbers for the KR Qualifiers every one who signed up so far would qualify ... meanwhile EU already has 44 signups.
And if you compare it to low tier regions like OCE your comment is ludicrous.
NA with 2 seeds will mean of the 3 competitive NA players we will have 2, so I personally do not see any issues for that region either.
Btw. the invite of Serral is due to him being World Champ, so it has nothing to do with the region. (Reynor was 2nd in IEM btw.)
Tbh. imo EU and KR should haven gotten 1 more slot each and the low tier regions (NA, LatAm, CN, TW, OCE) should have had 1 single Qualifier with 4 slots total.
Please tell me you are joking, you are saying that the top 12-14 players in EU is head and shoulder above the other regions top 2-3 players in NA-LA-TW-OCE? I mean, no disrespect to EU players in general, but how the hell we can miss one of Scarlett-Astrea-Neeb from the tournament just because EU has 12 slot and NA has 2 slots? Thats not counting the players who are actually looking pretty good in the DH NA tournament recently like Disk and Trigger. Also that means Has and Nice will have one guy missing the tournament because of the stupid region restriction.
Like how did we go from a typical DH slot allocation of 6-4-2-1-1-1-1 to a 12-12-2-1-1-1-1 format for this tournament and acting like we care about developing/giving support for the lesser region? Could we have a common qualifier where we have 4-6 slot that can be fought between player from different regions, at least giving them a chance to compete for more slots?
There is a caveat, that this is an offline event and not all players outside of EU are willing to travel there. So its fair if more slots are given to EU players just base off availability alone, but thats why I think we should have a common qualifier for all the regions to compete if they are good enough and want to travel to the event.
i mean idk about head and shoulders but if we for example look at the top 12 of the current DH Valencia for EU it goes:
i don't feel super confident saying Scarlett is CLEARLY better than those guys, for example.
Scarlett is definitely better than several of those players and at least somewhat close to half of them. 2 slots for NA does lower the competitions skill level.
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I personally disagree with your statement. Can Scarlett win matches against those players? Yes. Is she better? I don't think so. There is not one player I would favor Scarlett in a bo5 right now.
If you want to go through it:
Serral - Scarlett is worse Lambo - Scarlett is worse Reynor - Scarlett is worse Showtime - Scarlett is worse Elazer - Scarlett is worse Clem - Scarlett is worse Harstem - on current meta PvZ I believe Harstem is better Heromarine - Scarlett is worse Maxpax - Scarlett is worse Rattata - Scarlett is even, potentially better depending on her form Spirit - Scarlett is worse but I think Spirit is shaky in performance sometimes Skillous - SKillous current form is also better than Scarlett ZvP
Scarlett looked pretty bad against Neeb and Astrea in her ZvP. I know she is a player that can destroy when she is on point but her current form didn't look super great. The weaker players on that list which would be
Harstem, Rattata, Spirit and SKillous for most are still in the current form at least competetive if not better. Saying 2 slots for NA makes the competition worse is just wrong. If you would host global qualifiers on the NA server (15 with 2 slots each) I doubt we would see Astrea, Neeb and Scarlett qualify.
Scarlett has been performing poor lately but is still higher than 3 of them on aligulac. Depending on when this decision was made it's likely she was a decent amount higher on aligulac at that time. I'll admit I was also thinking a lot about historical and potential skill. I give Scarlett a much higher chance of upsetting a top player than Harstem, Spirit, or Rattata even though they're relatively close in rating and recent performance and I don't think that's a controversial thought process.
For your last part I agree but only because I think the spots would be taken by KR players in that scenario. If we look at the last 32 player event with open qualifiers (TSL 8) we had 16 Koreans, 12 EU pros, and 2 NA (with the caveat that Neeb never tried to qualify). EU is already guaranteed 2 more spots than how they performed there.
Don't get me wrong. I am a big Scarlett fan when she is on form. She can put out absolutely stunning performances and has shown to do so but her recent for is at best shaky. Aligulac rating is nice but unfortunately its also a rating that takes into account performance over a long period.
Europe has two invites for the reason of Serral being the current world champion and Reynor being #1 EPT at the time of the invite. If you want to look into recent performance. Harstem did upset Heromarine as top player 3-2 in Dreamhack. Harstem upset ShoWTimE today in HSC qualifiers.
I only agree on Rattata and Spirit who usually do not upset players often but in direct comparison I am still not comfortable to call them WORSE or lowering the skill ceiling. Also I dare say its not guaranteed they qualify in Europe at all. All in all I find it fair to give 2 slots to NA given they have 3 players you can consider top players. No region will feature ALL top players and the requirement to give for example OCE/ROA a slot who have basically no player on European level , nor Korean nor NA I think the split is alright.
Thats an as fair statement as I can make on that matter. You are obviously free to disagree but thats my take on it
PS: TSL had server qualifiers so not 100% accurate. EU gave up 2 slots to Maru&ByuN. NA Scarlett and Astrea qualified so that was still good but there is more to it (casting so I cant fully write it down)
I could agree with the EU players being better up to around top 10 (Serral-Reynor-Clem-HM-MaxPax-Showtime-Lambo-Elazer-Skillous-Harstem). But the other 5 spots (because Serral-Reynor are invited and MaxPax not likely to join) are truly up for grab if you make it a non-region-lock qualifier even against non-KR players.
I would put the top 1 or 2 players in each of the other regions (except OCE) against the rest of the EU guys and feeling good about their chance. Has/Nice are good, Time/Cyan are also good, Special/Kelazhur/Chamr are just as good, and so are Disk/Trigger. As for Scarlett, she did beat Astrea in the DH NA group stage so I am not sure how you are convinced that she is shaky at the moment. If you put the last 3 qualifying slots from EU, 2 from NA, 1 from each other regions (other than OCE) together, and make them all play the qualifier for those 8 slots (if my math is right), would the expected result be more or less slot for EU? Thats where we ultimately disagree on, you think EU would take at least 3 and even more, I think the other regions can take more than the current number of slot base on competition.
Of course any non-region-lock qualifier will ultimately be flooded with KRs anyway so thats not a good solution. Also I, know that because of how things has turned out (Special/Time/Charm didnt even play and Scarlett/Astrea are not signing up so far), it might be a moot point for all of these discussion.
Looking at the KR scene in general and signups of todays qualifier no 1 that is just not true So far there are 11 decent Players in the Kr qualifier Maru Creator Byun Solar Armani Zoun DRG Gumiho herO Classic Ryung Apart from Maru and maybe herO non of them is significantly better than the non invited EU boys Just look at WTL and the NA Open Cups where EU and KR players clash regularly
E.: Ragnarok signed up as well, so now we have 12! decent players in the first KR qualifer. The competition is fierce, there should be way more spots /s
On June 07 2022 21:30 tigera6 wrote: Are the qualifier region-locked? If so, EU with 12 slots is ridiculously too many considering Serral and Reynor are invited already.
Yes it is region locked.
From signup numbers for the KR Qualifiers every one who signed up so far would qualify ... meanwhile EU already has 44 signups.
And if you compare it to low tier regions like OCE your comment is ludicrous.
NA with 2 seeds will mean of the 3 competitive NA players we will have 2, so I personally do not see any issues for that region either.
Btw. the invite of Serral is due to him being World Champ, so it has nothing to do with the region. (Reynor was 2nd in IEM btw.)
Tbh. imo EU and KR should haven gotten 1 more slot each and the low tier regions (NA, LatAm, CN, TW, OCE) should have had 1 single Qualifier with 4 slots total.
Please tell me you are joking, you are saying that the top 12-14 players in EU is head and shoulder above the other regions top 2-3 players in NA-LA-TW-OCE? I mean, no disrespect to EU players in general, but how the hell we can miss one of Scarlett-Astrea-Neeb from the tournament just because EU has 12 slot and NA has 2 slots? Thats not counting the players who are actually looking pretty good in the DH NA tournament recently like Disk and Trigger. Also that means Has and Nice will have one guy missing the tournament because of the stupid region restriction.
Like how did we go from a typical DH slot allocation of 6-4-2-1-1-1-1 to a 12-12-2-1-1-1-1 format for this tournament and acting like we care about developing/giving support for the lesser region? Could we have a common qualifier where we have 4-6 slot that can be fought between player from different regions, at least giving them a chance to compete for more slots?
There is a caveat, that this is an offline event and not all players outside of EU are willing to travel there. So its fair if more slots are given to EU players just base off availability alone, but thats why I think we should have a common qualifier for all the regions to compete if they are good enough and want to travel to the event.
i mean idk about head and shoulders but if we for example look at the top 12 of the current DH Valencia for EU it goes:
i don't feel super confident saying Scarlett is CLEARLY better than those guys, for example.
Scarlett is definitely better than several of those players and at least somewhat close to half of them. 2 slots for NA does lower the competitions skill level.
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I personally disagree with your statement. Can Scarlett win matches against those players? Yes. Is she better? I don't think so. There is not one player I would favor Scarlett in a bo5 right now.
If you want to go through it:
Serral - Scarlett is worse Lambo - Scarlett is worse Reynor - Scarlett is worse Showtime - Scarlett is worse Elazer - Scarlett is worse Clem - Scarlett is worse Harstem - on current meta PvZ I believe Harstem is better Heromarine - Scarlett is worse Maxpax - Scarlett is worse Rattata - Scarlett is even, potentially better depending on her form Spirit - Scarlett is worse but I think Spirit is shaky in performance sometimes Skillous - SKillous current form is also better than Scarlett ZvP
Scarlett looked pretty bad against Neeb and Astrea in her ZvP. I know she is a player that can destroy when she is on point but her current form didn't look super great. The weaker players on that list which would be
Harstem, Rattata, Spirit and SKillous for most are still in the current form at least competetive if not better. Saying 2 slots for NA makes the competition worse is just wrong. If you would host global qualifiers on the NA server (15 with 2 slots each) I doubt we would see Astrea, Neeb and Scarlett qualify.
Scarlett is 11-1 in the world team league, well ahead of everybody else on that list.
On June 07 2022 21:30 tigera6 wrote: Are the qualifier region-locked? If so, EU with 12 slots is ridiculously too many considering Serral and Reynor are invited already.
Yes it is region locked.
From signup numbers for the KR Qualifiers every one who signed up so far would qualify ... meanwhile EU already has 44 signups.
And if you compare it to low tier regions like OCE your comment is ludicrous.
NA with 2 seeds will mean of the 3 competitive NA players we will have 2, so I personally do not see any issues for that region either.
Btw. the invite of Serral is due to him being World Champ, so it has nothing to do with the region. (Reynor was 2nd in IEM btw.)
Tbh. imo EU and KR should haven gotten 1 more slot each and the low tier regions (NA, LatAm, CN, TW, OCE) should have had 1 single Qualifier with 4 slots total.
Please tell me you are joking, you are saying that the top 12-14 players in EU is head and shoulder above the other regions top 2-3 players in NA-LA-TW-OCE? I mean, no disrespect to EU players in general, but how the hell we can miss one of Scarlett-Astrea-Neeb from the tournament just because EU has 12 slot and NA has 2 slots? Thats not counting the players who are actually looking pretty good in the DH NA tournament recently like Disk and Trigger. Also that means Has and Nice will have one guy missing the tournament because of the stupid region restriction.
Like how did we go from a typical DH slot allocation of 6-4-2-1-1-1-1 to a 12-12-2-1-1-1-1 format for this tournament and acting like we care about developing/giving support for the lesser region? Could we have a common qualifier where we have 4-6 slot that can be fought between player from different regions, at least giving them a chance to compete for more slots?
There is a caveat, that this is an offline event and not all players outside of EU are willing to travel there. So its fair if more slots are given to EU players just base off availability alone, but thats why I think we should have a common qualifier for all the regions to compete if they are good enough and want to travel to the event.
i mean idk about head and shoulders but if we for example look at the top 12 of the current DH Valencia for EU it goes:
i don't feel super confident saying Scarlett is CLEARLY better than those guys, for example.
Scarlett is definitely better than several of those players and at least somewhat close to half of them. 2 slots for NA does lower the competitions skill level.
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I personally disagree with your statement. Can Scarlett win matches against those players? Yes. Is she better? I don't think so. There is not one player I would favor Scarlett in a bo5 right now.
If you want to go through it:
Serral - Scarlett is worse Lambo - Scarlett is worse Reynor - Scarlett is worse Showtime - Scarlett is worse Elazer - Scarlett is worse Clem - Scarlett is worse Harstem - on current meta PvZ I believe Harstem is better Heromarine - Scarlett is worse Maxpax - Scarlett is worse Rattata - Scarlett is even, potentially better depending on her form Spirit - Scarlett is worse but I think Spirit is shaky in performance sometimes Skillous - SKillous current form is also better than Scarlett ZvP
Scarlett looked pretty bad against Neeb and Astrea in her ZvP. I know she is a player that can destroy when she is on point but her current form didn't look super great. The weaker players on that list which would be
Harstem, Rattata, Spirit and SKillous for most are still in the current form at least competetive if not better. Saying 2 slots for NA makes the competition worse is just wrong. If you would host global qualifiers on the NA server (15 with 2 slots each) I doubt we would see Astrea, Neeb and Scarlett qualify.
Scarlett is 11-1 in the world team league, well ahead of everybody else on that list.
GuMiHo and Reynor are good performances by her. MaNa is also considered a good player in Europe even though I would rate him as Scarlett, shaky in performance from very good to pretty mediocre.
Botvinnik isn't considered a good player in Europe. At best decent but he cannot even make Dreamhack if you want to rate the region. Cyan is CN, Silky is CN .. those matches are irrelevant for the comparison against Europe. Cyan is clearly superior to Silky and I dare say Cyan wouldn't be a scary player in EU overall. While he could beat people he would certainly not be favored against the mentioned list.
You can gladly go ahead and compare the other players performances. You will find a lot of irrelevant matches for this discussion and you will especially realize that most have very few matches. (less relevant even). The best comparison is probably rattata who is 4-6 with at least 10 matches which I stated above is even or slightly worse than Scarlett. I don't see how WTL changes anything I pointed out.
On June 07 2022 21:30 tigera6 wrote: Are the qualifier region-locked? If so, EU with 12 slots is ridiculously too many considering Serral and Reynor are invited already.
Yes it is region locked.
From signup numbers for the KR Qualifiers every one who signed up so far would qualify ... meanwhile EU already has 44 signups.
And if you compare it to low tier regions like OCE your comment is ludicrous.
NA with 2 seeds will mean of the 3 competitive NA players we will have 2, so I personally do not see any issues for that region either.
Btw. the invite of Serral is due to him being World Champ, so it has nothing to do with the region. (Reynor was 2nd in IEM btw.)
Tbh. imo EU and KR should haven gotten 1 more slot each and the low tier regions (NA, LatAm, CN, TW, OCE) should have had 1 single Qualifier with 4 slots total.
Rogue cannot leave Korea due to being to close to mandatory military service (27+ of age). Thus he will not participate in the HSC qualifiers. Trap has the same issue.
On June 07 2022 21:30 tigera6 wrote: Are the qualifier region-locked? If so, EU with 12 slots is ridiculously too many considering Serral and Reynor are invited already.
Yes it is region locked.
From signup numbers for the KR Qualifiers every one who signed up so far would qualify ... meanwhile EU already has 44 signups.
And if you compare it to low tier regions like OCE your comment is ludicrous.
NA with 2 seeds will mean of the 3 competitive NA players we will have 2, so I personally do not see any issues for that region either.
Btw. the invite of Serral is due to him being World Champ, so it has nothing to do with the region. (Reynor was 2nd in IEM btw.)
Tbh. imo EU and KR should haven gotten 1 more slot each and the low tier regions (NA, LatAm, CN, TW, OCE) should have had 1 single Qualifier with 4 slots total.
Please tell me you are joking, you are saying that the top 12-14 players in EU is head and shoulder above the other regions top 2-3 players in NA-LA-TW-OCE? I mean, no disrespect to EU players in general, but how the hell we can miss one of Scarlett-Astrea-Neeb from the tournament just because EU has 12 slot and NA has 2 slots? Thats not counting the players who are actually looking pretty good in the DH NA tournament recently like Disk and Trigger. Also that means Has and Nice will have one guy missing the tournament because of the stupid region restriction.
Like how did we go from a typical DH slot allocation of 6-4-2-1-1-1-1 to a 12-12-2-1-1-1-1 format for this tournament and acting like we care about developing/giving support for the lesser region? Could we have a common qualifier where we have 4-6 slot that can be fought between player from different regions, at least giving them a chance to compete for more slots?
There is a caveat, that this is an offline event and not all players outside of EU are willing to travel there. So its fair if more slots are given to EU players just base off availability alone, but thats why I think we should have a common qualifier for all the regions to compete if they are good enough and want to travel to the event.
i mean idk about head and shoulders but if we for example look at the top 12 of the current DH Valencia for EU it goes:
i don't feel super confident saying Scarlett is CLEARLY better than those guys, for example.
Scarlett is definitely better than several of those players and at least somewhat close to half of them. 2 slots for NA does lower the competitions skill level.
Serral - Scarlett is worse Lambo - Scarlett is better or even if not in form Reynor - Scarlett is worse or even if Reynor is not in form Showtime - Scarlett is worse Elazer - Scarlett is even Clem - Scarlett is worse Harstem - Scarlett is better Heromarine - Scarlett is worse Maxpax - Scarlett is worse Rattata - Scarlett is miles better always, not dependent on form at all Spirit - Scarlett is better Skillous - Scarlett is better, maybe even when not in form and Skillous playing like he is in recent weeks
Fixed it for you. Your assessment was completely ridiculous...
On June 07 2022 21:30 tigera6 wrote: Are the qualifier region-locked? If so, EU with 12 slots is ridiculously too many considering Serral and Reynor are invited already.
Yes it is region locked.
From signup numbers for the KR Qualifiers every one who signed up so far would qualify ... meanwhile EU already has 44 signups.
And if you compare it to low tier regions like OCE your comment is ludicrous.
NA with 2 seeds will mean of the 3 competitive NA players we will have 2, so I personally do not see any issues for that region either.
Btw. the invite of Serral is due to him being World Champ, so it has nothing to do with the region. (Reynor was 2nd in IEM btw.)
Tbh. imo EU and KR should haven gotten 1 more slot each and the low tier regions (NA, LatAm, CN, TW, OCE) should have had 1 single Qualifier with 4 slots total.
Please tell me you are joking, you are saying that the top 12-14 players in EU is head and shoulder above the other regions top 2-3 players in NA-LA-TW-OCE? I mean, no disrespect to EU players in general, but how the hell we can miss one of Scarlett-Astrea-Neeb from the tournament just because EU has 12 slot and NA has 2 slots? Thats not counting the players who are actually looking pretty good in the DH NA tournament recently like Disk and Trigger. Also that means Has and Nice will have one guy missing the tournament because of the stupid region restriction.
Like how did we go from a typical DH slot allocation of 6-4-2-1-1-1-1 to a 12-12-2-1-1-1-1 format for this tournament and acting like we care about developing/giving support for the lesser region? Could we have a common qualifier where we have 4-6 slot that can be fought between player from different regions, at least giving them a chance to compete for more slots?
There is a caveat, that this is an offline event and not all players outside of EU are willing to travel there. So its fair if more slots are given to EU players just base off availability alone, but thats why I think we should have a common qualifier for all the regions to compete if they are good enough and want to travel to the event.
i mean idk about head and shoulders but if we for example look at the top 12 of the current DH Valencia for EU it goes:
i don't feel super confident saying Scarlett is CLEARLY better than those guys, for example.
Scarlett is definitely better than several of those players and at least somewhat close to half of them. 2 slots for NA does lower the competitions skill level.
Serral - Scarlett is worse Lambo - Scarlett is better or even if not in form Reynor - Scarlett is worse or even if Reynor is not in form Showtime - Scarlett is worse Elazer - Scarlett is even Clem - Scarlett is worse Harstem - Scarlett is better Heromarine - Scarlett is worse Maxpax - Scarlett is worse Rattata - Scarlett is miles better always, not dependent on form at all Spirit - Scarlett is better Skillous - Scarlett is better, maybe even when not in form and Skillous playing like he is in recent weeks
Fixed it for you. Your assessment was completely ridiculous...
Imagine calling Scarlett better especially in ZvP when she bombed out off Dreamhack vs Neeb and Astrea frankly with little to no chance in those best of 5s and writing off Harstem who is quoted by pros as one of the best PvZ currently. SKillous is also performing really good in PvZ recently.
The good thing is - if she is as good as some people here say she'll easily take one of the NA spots and also seemingly dominate the HSC. I personally don't see my assassment as ridiculous but rather yours but as mentioned before - that is within your own right.
On June 10 2022 01:00 TaKeTV wrote: Rogue cannot leave Korea due to being to close to mandatory military service (27+ of age). Thus he will not participate in the HSC qualifiers. Trap has the same issue.
I believe Cure might be the case as well.
Shit that suck, so that mean no Rogue at Valencia? Terrible news if that's the case
On June 10 2022 09:56 TossHeroes wrote: Can’t really people are really arguing over this whole Scarlett situation
Top 10 EU easily are better than Scarlett
And yet outside of the obvious ones none of them have achieved anywhere near as much as Scarlett despite mostly playing the game just as long as her. Even if you only look at recent results Scarlett took top 4 in an international premier in October. When's the last time a mid tier EU pro did that? Obviously Serral/Reynor/Clem/HM have. Lambo did as well. But once you get past those EU results drop off fast.
The whole non EU foreign scene is so underrated. Scarlett/Neeb/Astrea/Time/Special are all just as good as any EU player besides Serral/Reynor/Clem/HM. Showtime might be slightly more consistent. Players like Nice/Has/Kelazhur aren't that far behind that tier either.
Form varies a lot of course but if there was an event without the top 4 of EU and no KR players I would bet on the rest of the world group pretty comfortably.
On June 10 2022 09:56 TossHeroes wrote: Can’t really people are really arguing over this whole Scarlett situation
Top 10 EU easily are better than Scarlett
And yet outside of the obvious ones none of them have achieved anywhere near as much as Scarlett despite mostly playing the game just as long as her. Even if you only look at recent results Scarlett took top 4 in an international premier in October. When's the last time a mid tier EU pro did that? Obviously Serral/Reynor/Clem/HM have. Lambo did as well. But once you get past those EU results drop off fast.
The whole non EU foreign scene is so underrated. Scarlett/Neeb/Astrea/Time/Special are all just as good as any EU player besides Serral/Reynor/Clem/HM. Showtime might be slightly more consistent. Players like Nice/Has/Kelazhur aren't that far behind that tier either.
Form varies a lot of course but if there was an event without the top 4 of EU and no KR players I would bet on the rest of the world group pretty comfortably.
When you are in Europe you dont get to go to international events cause Serral, Reynor, Clem and (most of the time) HeroMarine just take those 4 spots.
For Scarlett its absolutely a matter of form and meta how good she is. She can be a beast but she can just as easily be pretty weak.
Neeb/TIME/SpeCial I would all rate more consistent in their performance. Astrea showed really good performances as well in the recent past but then you also have matches like the bo5 vs DisK where you have to ask yourself whats happening.
And without shitting on Scarletts result, the top 4 is essentially off of 3 great games. Its a very good result but its not like this invalidates the general term that EU is higher in level.
Ask yourself this: If you put Scarlett in the EU region, do you consider her finsihing behind Gabe or losing/ dropping only to the top 5? I dont. She can absolutely lose to more people beyond that list even in bo5.
Someone said that Skillous is was worse even in current form as example. Skillous beat Scarlett 2-0 on KoB qualifier and certainly meta is different now and he is better in this meta. Obviously also a single not super meaningful result. I might come across too harsh in my rating but some people here sound like she would be a consistent top 8 guaranteed in the EU region which I simply dont see.
It would be really nice to see a region player swap and set up round robin groups. To me outside of Korea I consider
Neeb, TIME, SpeCial,Scarlett, Astrea.... Cyan, Nice
With the note that both Astrea and Scarlett can be better than their average Performance by a long Shot. Kelazhur lives and usually plays EU so I dont put him into the NA/LA region even though 2022 he played there.
All in all it greatly helps to be in the NA region to qualify for international events and having any pro from EU below Serral, Clem, Reynor and HeroMarine put into NA (Dreamhack as example) makes him a very viable player for deep runs or qualification
On June 10 2022 01:00 TaKeTV wrote: Rogue cannot leave Korea due to being to close to mandatory military service (27+ of age). Thus he will not participate in the HSC qualifiers. Trap has the same issue.
I believe Cure might be the case as well.
Shit that suck, so that mean no Rogue at Valencia? Terrible news if that's the case
On June 10 2022 01:00 TaKeTV wrote: Rogue cannot leave Korea due to being to close to mandatory military service (27+ of age). Thus he will not participate in the HSC qualifiers. Trap has the same issue.
I believe Cure might be the case as well.
Shit that suck, so that mean no Rogue at Valencia? Terrible news if that's the case
Yep no Rogue. Trap shouldnt be there either
Was this confirmed by ESL yet? I know its still 3 weeks to go till Valencia, but there has been no indication on that. I mean, if Zest was able to travel to IEM, then surely Rogue and Trap can do it now, unless they have been noticed to join the military already.
On June 10 2022 01:00 TaKeTV wrote: Rogue cannot leave Korea due to being to close to mandatory military service (27+ of age). Thus he will not participate in the HSC qualifiers. Trap has the same issue.
I believe Cure might be the case as well.
Shit that suck, so that mean no Rogue at Valencia? Terrible news if that's the case
Yep no Rogue. Trap shouldnt be there either
Was this confirmed by ESL yet? I know its still 3 weeks to go till Valencia, but there has been no indication on that. I mean, if Zest was able to travel to IEM, then surely Rogue and Trap can do it now, unless they have been noticed to join the military already.
I can confirm it for Rogue. Trap said himself some time ago that he played his last international tournament. There will be an ESL announcement in the future. I am sure of it.
Zest / IEM was a different matter and afaik there was a bigger effort / on political level to make that happen. (Ie ministry of xy involved etc)
Edit: also speaking directly with Rogue should be confirmation 😅
On June 10 2022 01:00 TaKeTV wrote: Rogue cannot leave Korea due to being to close to mandatory military service (27+ of age). Thus he will not participate in the HSC qualifiers. Trap has the same issue.
I believe Cure might be the case as well.
Shit that suck, so that mean no Rogue at Valencia? Terrible news if that's the case
Yep no Rogue. Trap shouldnt be there either
Was this confirmed by ESL yet? I know its still 3 weeks to go till Valencia, but there has been no indication on that. I mean, if Zest was able to travel to IEM, then surely Rogue and Trap can do it now, unless they have been noticed to join the military already.
I can confirm it for Rogue. Trap said himself some time ago that he played his last international tournament. There will be an ESL announcement in the future. I am sure of it.
Zest / IEM was a different matter and afaik there was a bigger effort / on political level to make that happen. (Ie ministry of xy involved etc)
Edit: also speaking directly with Rogue should be confirmation 😅
Damn, Zest is just THAT special than the rest of them then. What a blow to the KR level of competition, losing top player for each race (if Cure aslo has the same problem). Solar, Creator and Bunny better leveling up their game quickly.
On June 10 2022 01:00 TaKeTV wrote: Rogue cannot leave Korea due to being to close to mandatory military service (27+ of age). Thus he will not participate in the HSC qualifiers. Trap has the same issue.
I believe Cure might be the case as well.
Shit that suck, so that mean no Rogue at Valencia? Terrible news if that's the case
Yep no Rogue. Trap shouldnt be there either
Was this confirmed by ESL yet? I know its still 3 weeks to go till Valencia, but there has been no indication on that. I mean, if Zest was able to travel to IEM, then surely Rogue and Trap can do it now, unless they have been noticed to join the military already.
I can confirm it for Rogue. Trap said himself some time ago that he played his last international tournament. There will be an ESL announcement in the future. I am sure of it.
Zest / IEM was a different matter and afaik there was a bigger effort / on political level to make that happen. (Ie ministry of xy involved etc)
Edit: also speaking directly with Rogue should be confirmation 😅
Damn, Zest is just THAT special than the rest of them then. What a blow to the KR level of competition, losing top player for each race (if Cure aslo has the same problem). Solar, Creator and Bunny better leveling up their game quickly.
I gues when you re arguing with minstry xyz it helps, that IEM was the world championship, so it was probably easier to get permission than "just" for HSC or a Dreamhack
EPT
World Team League/2022/Summer/Statistics
