On June 07 2022 21:30 tigera6 wrote: Are the qualifier region-locked? If so, EU with 12 slots is ridiculously too many considering Serral and Reynor are invited already.
Yes it is region locked.
From signup numbers for the KR Qualifiers every one who signed up so far would qualify ... meanwhile EU already has 44 signups.
And if you compare it to low tier regions like OCE your comment is ludicrous.
NA with 2 seeds will mean of the 3 competitive NA players we will have 2, so I personally do not see any issues for that region either.
Btw. the invite of Serral is due to him being World Champ, so it has nothing to do with the region. (Reynor was 2nd in IEM btw.)
Tbh. imo EU and KR should haven gotten 1 more slot each and the low tier regions (NA, LatAm, CN, TW, OCE) should have had 1 single Qualifier with 4 slots total.
On June 07 2022 21:30 tigera6 wrote: Are the qualifier region-locked? If so, EU with 12 slots is ridiculously too many considering Serral and Reynor are invited already.
Yes it is region locked.
From signup numbers for the KR Qualifiers every one who signed up so far would qualify ... meanwhile EU already has 44 signups.
And if you compare it to low tier regions like OCE your comment is ludicrous.
NA with 2 seeds will mean of the 3 competitive NA players we will have 2, so I personally do not see any issues for that region either.
Btw. the invite of Serral is due to him being World Champ, so it has nothing to do with the region. (Reynor was 2nd in IEM btw.)
Tbh. imo EU and KR should haven gotten 1 more slot each and the low tier regions (NA, LatAm, CN, TW, OCE) should have had 1 single Qualifier with 4 slots total.
Please tell me you are joking, you are saying that the top 12-14 players in EU is head and shoulder above the other regions top 2-3 players in NA-LA-TW-OCE? I mean, no disrespect to EU players in general, but how the hell we can miss one of Scarlett-Astrea-Neeb from the tournament just because EU has 12 slot and NA has 2 slots? Thats not counting the players who are actually looking pretty good in the DH NA tournament recently like Disk and Trigger. Also that means Has and Nice will have one guy missing the tournament because of the stupid region restriction.
Like how did we go from a typical DH slot allocation of 6-4-2-1-1-1-1 to a 12-12-2-1-1-1-1 format for this tournament and acting like we care about developing/giving support for the lesser region? Could we have a common qualifier where we have 4-6 slot that can be fought between player from different regions, at least giving them a chance to compete for more slots?
There is a caveat, that this is an offline event and not all players outside of EU are willing to travel there. So its fair if more slots are given to EU players just base off availability alone, but thats why I think we should have a common qualifier for all the regions to compete if they are good enough and want to travel to the event.
On June 07 2022 21:30 tigera6 wrote: Are the qualifier region-locked? If so, EU with 12 slots is ridiculously too many considering Serral and Reynor are invited already.
Yes it is region locked.
From signup numbers for the KR Qualifiers every one who signed up so far would qualify ... meanwhile EU already has 44 signups.
And if you compare it to low tier regions like OCE your comment is ludicrous.
NA with 2 seeds will mean of the 3 competitive NA players we will have 2, so I personally do not see any issues for that region either.
Btw. the invite of Serral is due to him being World Champ, so it has nothing to do with the region. (Reynor was 2nd in IEM btw.)
Tbh. imo EU and KR should haven gotten 1 more slot each and the low tier regions (NA, LatAm, CN, TW, OCE) should have had 1 single Qualifier with 4 slots total.
Please tell me you are joking, you are saying that the top 12-14 players in EU is head and shoulder above the other regions top 2-3 players in NA-LA-TW-OCE? I mean, no disrespect to EU players in general, but how the hell we can miss one of Scarlett-Astrea-Neeb from the tournament just because EU has 12 slot and NA has 2 slots? Thats not counting the players who are actually looking pretty good in the DH NA tournament recently like Disk and Trigger. Also that means Has and Nice will have one guy missing the tournament because of the stupid region restriction.
Like how did we go from a typical DH slot allocation of 6-4-2-1-1-1-1 to a 12-12-2-1-1-1-1 format for this tournament and acting like we care about developing/giving support for the lesser region? Could we have a common qualifier where we have 4-6 slot that can be fought between player from different regions, at least giving them a chance to compete for more slots?
There is a caveat, that this is an offline event and not all players outside of EU are willing to travel there. So its fair if more slots are given to EU players just base off availability alone, but thats why I think we should have a common qualifier for all the regions to compete if they are good enough and want to travel to the event.
I would love server Qualifiers instead of locked ones, but esl enforces locked Qualifiers, with at least 1 (in case of na 2) slots per region
On June 07 2022 21:30 tigera6 wrote: Are the qualifier region-locked? If so, EU with 12 slots is ridiculously too many considering Serral and Reynor are invited already.
Yes it is region locked.
From signup numbers for the KR Qualifiers every one who signed up so far would qualify ... meanwhile EU already has 44 signups.
And if you compare it to low tier regions like OCE your comment is ludicrous.
NA with 2 seeds will mean of the 3 competitive NA players we will have 2, so I personally do not see any issues for that region either.
Btw. the invite of Serral is due to him being World Champ, so it has nothing to do with the region. (Reynor was 2nd in IEM btw.)
Tbh. imo EU and KR should haven gotten 1 more slot each and the low tier regions (NA, LatAm, CN, TW, OCE) should have had 1 single Qualifier with 4 slots total.
Please tell me you are joking, you are saying that the top 12-14 players in EU is head and shoulder above the other regions top 2-3 players in NA-LA-TW-OCE? I mean, no disrespect to EU players in general, but how the hell we can miss one of Scarlett-Astrea-Neeb from the tournament just because EU has 12 slot and NA has 2 slots? Thats not counting the players who are actually looking pretty good in the DH NA tournament recently like Disk and Trigger. Also that means Has and Nice will have one guy missing the tournament because of the stupid region restriction.
Like how did we go from a typical DH slot allocation of 6-4-2-1-1-1-1 to a 12-12-2-1-1-1-1 format for this tournament and acting like we care about developing/giving support for the lesser region? Could we have a common qualifier where we have 4-6 slot that can be fought between player from different regions, at least giving them a chance to compete for more slots?
There is a caveat, that this is an offline event and not all players outside of EU are willing to travel there. So its fair if more slots are given to EU players just base off availability alone, but thats why I think we should have a common qualifier for all the regions to compete if they are good enough and want to travel to the event.
Hello;
NarutO from TaKeTV here. I will tell you that yes the European Region is easily better than any other region. Outside of Reynor and Serral who I both invited just to name a few:
Clem, Lambo, HeroMarine, ShoWTimE. All four of them are already easily better on average compared to the one missing person on NA no matter who you choose. I absolutely mean no disrespect but having 2/3 for NA is perfectly fine just like Valencia.
If you want to mention the likes of DisK and trigger there are plently of EU players that are superior to them. Could they take some series? Probably. Likely though? No. Also if you want to run 10x bo5 of disk/trigger against competetive EU that will most likely be very onesided.
The other regions outside of China are even less competetive. Kelazhur chose to play LA over EU (which he could pick) so it will be between him and SpeCial. If he doesn't do that there is absolutely no one who could give SpeCial a run for his money in that qualifier. Maybe Cham or ERIK if all stars align perfectly.
CN is a good region with some good players but outside of TIME no one there is world class. Also there will be huge issues getting any chinese player out of China. Korea has 12 slots which is a lot but thats fine for me. Please be aware I could have easily cut more slots and added more EU and still chose not to.
Other regions have some decent talent , especially TW/HK but no one that would be straight better than EU.
On June 07 2022 21:30 tigera6 wrote: Are the qualifier region-locked? If so, EU with 12 slots is ridiculously too many considering Serral and Reynor are invited already.
Yes it is region locked.
From signup numbers for the KR Qualifiers every one who signed up so far would qualify ... meanwhile EU already has 44 signups.
And if you compare it to low tier regions like OCE your comment is ludicrous.
NA with 2 seeds will mean of the 3 competitive NA players we will have 2, so I personally do not see any issues for that region either.
Btw. the invite of Serral is due to him being World Champ, so it has nothing to do with the region. (Reynor was 2nd in IEM btw.)
Tbh. imo EU and KR should haven gotten 1 more slot each and the low tier regions (NA, LatAm, CN, TW, OCE) should have had 1 single Qualifier with 4 slots total.
Please tell me you are joking, you are saying that the top 12-14 players in EU is head and shoulder above the other regions top 2-3 players in NA-LA-TW-OCE? I mean, no disrespect to EU players in general, but how the hell we can miss one of Scarlett-Astrea-Neeb from the tournament just because EU has 12 slot and NA has 2 slots? Thats not counting the players who are actually looking pretty good in the DH NA tournament recently like Disk and Trigger. Also that means Has and Nice will have one guy missing the tournament because of the stupid region restriction.
Like how did we go from a typical DH slot allocation of 6-4-2-1-1-1-1 to a 12-12-2-1-1-1-1 format for this tournament and acting like we care about developing/giving support for the lesser region? Could we have a common qualifier where we have 4-6 slot that can be fought between player from different regions, at least giving them a chance to compete for more slots?
There is a caveat, that this is an offline event and not all players outside of EU are willing to travel there. So its fair if more slots are given to EU players just base off availability alone, but thats why I think we should have a common qualifier for all the regions to compete if they are good enough and want to travel to the event.
i mean idk about head and shoulders but if we for example look at the top 12 of the current DH Valencia for EU it goes:
On June 07 2022 21:30 tigera6 wrote: Are the qualifier region-locked? If so, EU with 12 slots is ridiculously too many considering Serral and Reynor are invited already.
Yes it is region locked.
From signup numbers for the KR Qualifiers every one who signed up so far would qualify ... meanwhile EU already has 44 signups.
And if you compare it to low tier regions like OCE your comment is ludicrous.
NA with 2 seeds will mean of the 3 competitive NA players we will have 2, so I personally do not see any issues for that region either.
Btw. the invite of Serral is due to him being World Champ, so it has nothing to do with the region. (Reynor was 2nd in IEM btw.)
Tbh. imo EU and KR should haven gotten 1 more slot each and the low tier regions (NA, LatAm, CN, TW, OCE) should have had 1 single Qualifier with 4 slots total.
Please tell me you are joking, you are saying that the top 12-14 players in EU is head and shoulder above the other regions top 2-3 players in NA-LA-TW-OCE? I mean, no disrespect to EU players in general, but how the hell we can miss one of Scarlett-Astrea-Neeb from the tournament just because EU has 12 slot and NA has 2 slots? Thats not counting the players who are actually looking pretty good in the DH NA tournament recently like Disk and Trigger. Also that means Has and Nice will have one guy missing the tournament because of the stupid region restriction.
Like how did we go from a typical DH slot allocation of 6-4-2-1-1-1-1 to a 12-12-2-1-1-1-1 format for this tournament and acting like we care about developing/giving support for the lesser region? Could we have a common qualifier where we have 4-6 slot that can be fought between player from different regions, at least giving them a chance to compete for more slots?
There is a caveat, that this is an offline event and not all players outside of EU are willing to travel there. So its fair if more slots are given to EU players just base off availability alone, but thats why I think we should have a common qualifier for all the regions to compete if they are good enough and want to travel to the event.
i mean idk about head and shoulders but if we for example look at the top 12 of the current DH Valencia for EU it goes:
i don't feel super confident saying Scarlett is CLEARLY better than those guys, for example.
Same goes for Astrea to be fair. Or Cyan and Has. Top 12 Koreans are a bit more competitiv, but not everyone will sign up, so the guys actually going might be in the same or possibly even lower Level. Caveat: you have to take MaxPax off that list as well, I don t see him forfeiting IEM and then Play HSC a few month later
Guys.... Maru signed up for the qualifiers. After almost 20 consecutive dodge, we may finaly have Maru showing up at a party. He better be wasted by 2:40 PM on friday
Elazer nearly supply blocked instead of being at 70/186, Maru signing up for HSC... Everything I thought to be sure and stable in this world is turning upside down. Is soO going to win that code S season ?
On June 07 2022 21:30 tigera6 wrote: Are the qualifier region-locked? If so, EU with 12 slots is ridiculously too many considering Serral and Reynor are invited already.
Yes it is region locked.
From signup numbers for the KR Qualifiers every one who signed up so far would qualify ... meanwhile EU already has 44 signups.
And if you compare it to low tier regions like OCE your comment is ludicrous.
NA with 2 seeds will mean of the 3 competitive NA players we will have 2, so I personally do not see any issues for that region either.
Btw. the invite of Serral is due to him being World Champ, so it has nothing to do with the region. (Reynor was 2nd in IEM btw.)
Tbh. imo EU and KR should haven gotten 1 more slot each and the low tier regions (NA, LatAm, CN, TW, OCE) should have had 1 single Qualifier with 4 slots total.
Please tell me you are joking, you are saying that the top 12-14 players in EU is head and shoulder above the other regions top 2-3 players in NA-LA-TW-OCE? I mean, no disrespect to EU players in general, but how the hell we can miss one of Scarlett-Astrea-Neeb from the tournament just because EU has 12 slot and NA has 2 slots? Thats not counting the players who are actually looking pretty good in the DH NA tournament recently like Disk and Trigger. Also that means Has and Nice will have one guy missing the tournament because of the stupid region restriction.
Like how did we go from a typical DH slot allocation of 6-4-2-1-1-1-1 to a 12-12-2-1-1-1-1 format for this tournament and acting like we care about developing/giving support for the lesser region? Could we have a common qualifier where we have 4-6 slot that can be fought between player from different regions, at least giving them a chance to compete for more slots?
There is a caveat, that this is an offline event and not all players outside of EU are willing to travel there. So its fair if more slots are given to EU players just base off availability alone, but thats why I think we should have a common qualifier for all the regions to compete if they are good enough and want to travel to the event.
i mean idk about head and shoulders but if we for example look at the top 12 of the current DH Valencia for EU it goes:
i don't feel super confident saying Scarlett is CLEARLY better than those guys, for example.
Scarlett is definitely better than several of those players and at least somewhat close to half of them. 2 slots for NA does lower the competitions skill level.
On June 07 2022 21:30 tigera6 wrote: Are the qualifier region-locked? If so, EU with 12 slots is ridiculously too many considering Serral and Reynor are invited already.
Yes it is region locked.
From signup numbers for the KR Qualifiers every one who signed up so far would qualify ... meanwhile EU already has 44 signups.
And if you compare it to low tier regions like OCE your comment is ludicrous.
NA with 2 seeds will mean of the 3 competitive NA players we will have 2, so I personally do not see any issues for that region either.
Btw. the invite of Serral is due to him being World Champ, so it has nothing to do with the region. (Reynor was 2nd in IEM btw.)
Tbh. imo EU and KR should haven gotten 1 more slot each and the low tier regions (NA, LatAm, CN, TW, OCE) should have had 1 single Qualifier with 4 slots total.
Please tell me you are joking, you are saying that the top 12-14 players in EU is head and shoulder above the other regions top 2-3 players in NA-LA-TW-OCE? I mean, no disrespect to EU players in general, but how the hell we can miss one of Scarlett-Astrea-Neeb from the tournament just because EU has 12 slot and NA has 2 slots? Thats not counting the players who are actually looking pretty good in the DH NA tournament recently like Disk and Trigger. Also that means Has and Nice will have one guy missing the tournament because of the stupid region restriction.
Like how did we go from a typical DH slot allocation of 6-4-2-1-1-1-1 to a 12-12-2-1-1-1-1 format for this tournament and acting like we care about developing/giving support for the lesser region? Could we have a common qualifier where we have 4-6 slot that can be fought between player from different regions, at least giving them a chance to compete for more slots?
There is a caveat, that this is an offline event and not all players outside of EU are willing to travel there. So its fair if more slots are given to EU players just base off availability alone, but thats why I think we should have a common qualifier for all the regions to compete if they are good enough and want to travel to the event.
i mean idk about head and shoulders but if we for example look at the top 12 of the current DH Valencia for EU it goes:
i don't feel super confident saying Scarlett is CLEARLY better than those guys, for example.
Scarlett is definitely better than several of those players and at least somewhat close to half of them. 2 slots for NA does lower the competitions skill level.
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I personally disagree with your statement. Can Scarlett win matches against those players? Yes. Is she better? I don't think so. There is not one player I would favor Scarlett in a bo5 right now.
If you want to go through it:
Serral - Scarlett is worse Lambo - Scarlett is worse Reynor - Scarlett is worse Showtime - Scarlett is worse Elazer - Scarlett is worse Clem - Scarlett is worse Harstem - on current meta PvZ I believe Harstem is better Heromarine - Scarlett is worse Maxpax - Scarlett is worse Rattata - Scarlett is even, potentially better depending on her form Spirit - Scarlett is worse but I think Spirit is shaky in performance sometimes Skillous - SKillous current form is also better than Scarlett ZvP
Scarlett looked pretty bad against Neeb and Astrea in her ZvP. I know she is a player that can destroy when she is on point but her current form didn't look super great. The weaker players on that list which would be
Harstem, Rattata, Spirit and SKillous for most are still in the current form at least competetive if not better. Saying 2 slots for NA makes the competition worse is just wrong. If you would host global qualifiers on the NA server (15 with 2 slots each) I doubt we would see Astrea, Neeb and Scarlett qualify.
On June 07 2022 21:30 tigera6 wrote: Are the qualifier region-locked? If so, EU with 12 slots is ridiculously too many considering Serral and Reynor are invited already.
Yes it is region locked.
From signup numbers for the KR Qualifiers every one who signed up so far would qualify ... meanwhile EU already has 44 signups.
And if you compare it to low tier regions like OCE your comment is ludicrous.
NA with 2 seeds will mean of the 3 competitive NA players we will have 2, so I personally do not see any issues for that region either.
Btw. the invite of Serral is due to him being World Champ, so it has nothing to do with the region. (Reynor was 2nd in IEM btw.)
Tbh. imo EU and KR should haven gotten 1 more slot each and the low tier regions (NA, LatAm, CN, TW, OCE) should have had 1 single Qualifier with 4 slots total.
Please tell me you are joking, you are saying that the top 12-14 players in EU is head and shoulder above the other regions top 2-3 players in NA-LA-TW-OCE? I mean, no disrespect to EU players in general, but how the hell we can miss one of Scarlett-Astrea-Neeb from the tournament just because EU has 12 slot and NA has 2 slots? Thats not counting the players who are actually looking pretty good in the DH NA tournament recently like Disk and Trigger. Also that means Has and Nice will have one guy missing the tournament because of the stupid region restriction.
Like how did we go from a typical DH slot allocation of 6-4-2-1-1-1-1 to a 12-12-2-1-1-1-1 format for this tournament and acting like we care about developing/giving support for the lesser region? Could we have a common qualifier where we have 4-6 slot that can be fought between player from different regions, at least giving them a chance to compete for more slots?
There is a caveat, that this is an offline event and not all players outside of EU are willing to travel there. So its fair if more slots are given to EU players just base off availability alone, but thats why I think we should have a common qualifier for all the regions to compete if they are good enough and want to travel to the event.
i mean idk about head and shoulders but if we for example look at the top 12 of the current DH Valencia for EU it goes:
i don't feel super confident saying Scarlett is CLEARLY better than those guys, for example.
Scarlett is definitely better than several of those players and at least somewhat close to half of them. 2 slots for NA does lower the competitions skill level.
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I personally disagree with your statement. Can Scarlett win matches against those players? Yes. Is she better? I don't think so. There is not one player I would favor Scarlett in a bo5 right now.
If you want to go through it:
Serral - Scarlett is worse Lambo - Scarlett is worse Reynor - Scarlett is worse Showtime - Scarlett is worse Elazer - Scarlett is worse Clem - Scarlett is worse Harstem - on current meta PvZ I believe Harstem is better Heromarine - Scarlett is worse Maxpax - Scarlett is worse Rattata - Scarlett is even, potentially better depending on her form Spirit - Scarlett is worse but I think Spirit is shaky in performance sometimes Skillous - SKillous current form is also better than Scarlett ZvP
Scarlett looked pretty bad against Neeb and Astrea in her ZvP. I know she is a player that can destroy when she is on point but her current form didn't look super great. The weaker players on that list which would be
Harstem, Rattata, Spirit and SKillous for most are still in the current form at least competetive if not better. Saying 2 slots for NA makes the competition worse is just wrong. If you would host global qualifiers on the NA server (15 with 2 slots each) I doubt we would see Astrea, Neeb and Scarlett qualify.
Scarlett has been performing poor lately but is still higher than 3 of them on aligulac. Depending on when this decision was made it's likely she was a decent amount higher on aligulac at that time. I'll admit I was also thinking a lot about historical and potential skill. I give Scarlett a much higher chance of upsetting a top player than Harstem, Spirit, or Rattata even though they're relatively close in rating and recent performance and I don't think that's a controversial thought process.
For your last part I agree but only because I think the spots would be taken by KR players in that scenario. If we look at the last 32 player event with open qualifiers (TSL 8) we had 16 Koreans, 12 EU pros, and 2 NA (with the caveat that Neeb never tried to qualify). EU is already guaranteed 2 more spots than how they performed there.
On June 07 2022 21:30 tigera6 wrote: Are the qualifier region-locked? If so, EU with 12 slots is ridiculously too many considering Serral and Reynor are invited already.
Yes it is region locked.
From signup numbers for the KR Qualifiers every one who signed up so far would qualify ... meanwhile EU already has 44 signups.
And if you compare it to low tier regions like OCE your comment is ludicrous.
NA with 2 seeds will mean of the 3 competitive NA players we will have 2, so I personally do not see any issues for that region either.
Btw. the invite of Serral is due to him being World Champ, so it has nothing to do with the region. (Reynor was 2nd in IEM btw.)
Tbh. imo EU and KR should haven gotten 1 more slot each and the low tier regions (NA, LatAm, CN, TW, OCE) should have had 1 single Qualifier with 4 slots total.
Please tell me you are joking, you are saying that the top 12-14 players in EU is head and shoulder above the other regions top 2-3 players in NA-LA-TW-OCE? I mean, no disrespect to EU players in general, but how the hell we can miss one of Scarlett-Astrea-Neeb from the tournament just because EU has 12 slot and NA has 2 slots? Thats not counting the players who are actually looking pretty good in the DH NA tournament recently like Disk and Trigger. Also that means Has and Nice will have one guy missing the tournament because of the stupid region restriction.
Like how did we go from a typical DH slot allocation of 6-4-2-1-1-1-1 to a 12-12-2-1-1-1-1 format for this tournament and acting like we care about developing/giving support for the lesser region? Could we have a common qualifier where we have 4-6 slot that can be fought between player from different regions, at least giving them a chance to compete for more slots?
There is a caveat, that this is an offline event and not all players outside of EU are willing to travel there. So its fair if more slots are given to EU players just base off availability alone, but thats why I think we should have a common qualifier for all the regions to compete if they are good enough and want to travel to the event.
i mean idk about head and shoulders but if we for example look at the top 12 of the current DH Valencia for EU it goes:
i don't feel super confident saying Scarlett is CLEARLY better than those guys, for example.
Scarlett is definitely better than several of those players and at least somewhat close to half of them. 2 slots for NA does lower the competitions skill level.
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I personally disagree with your statement. Can Scarlett win matches against those players? Yes. Is she better? I don't think so. There is not one player I would favor Scarlett in a bo5 right now.
If you want to go through it:
Serral - Scarlett is worse Lambo - Scarlett is worse Reynor - Scarlett is worse Showtime - Scarlett is worse Elazer - Scarlett is worse Clem - Scarlett is worse Harstem - on current meta PvZ I believe Harstem is better Heromarine - Scarlett is worse Maxpax - Scarlett is worse Rattata - Scarlett is even, potentially better depending on her form Spirit - Scarlett is worse but I think Spirit is shaky in performance sometimes Skillous - SKillous current form is also better than Scarlett ZvP
Scarlett looked pretty bad against Neeb and Astrea in her ZvP. I know she is a player that can destroy when she is on point but her current form didn't look super great. The weaker players on that list which would be
Harstem, Rattata, Spirit and SKillous for most are still in the current form at least competetive if not better. Saying 2 slots for NA makes the competition worse is just wrong. If you would host global qualifiers on the NA server (15 with 2 slots each) I doubt we would see Astrea, Neeb and Scarlett qualify.
Scarlett has been performing poor lately but is still higher than 3 of them on aligulac. Depending on when this decision was made it's likely she was a decent amount higher on aligulac at that time. I'll admit I was also thinking a lot about historical and potential skill. I give Scarlett a much higher chance of upsetting a top player than Harstem, Spirit, or Rattata even though they're relatively close in rating and recent performance and I don't think that's a controversial thought process.
For your last part I agree but only because I think the spots would be taken by KR players in that scenario. If we look at the last 32 player event with open qualifiers (TSL 8) we had 16 Koreans, 12 EU pros, and 2 NA (with the caveat that Neeb never tried to qualify). EU is already guaranteed 2 more spots than how they performed there.
Don't get me wrong. I am a big Scarlett fan when she is on form. She can put out absolutely stunning performances and has shown to do so but her recent for is at best shaky. Aligulac rating is nice but unfortunately its also a rating that takes into account performance over a long period.
Europe has two invites for the reason of Serral being the current world champion and Reynor being #1 EPT at the time of the invite. If you want to look into recent performance. Harstem did upset Heromarine as top player 3-2 in Dreamhack. Harstem upset ShoWTimE today in HSC qualifiers.
I only agree on Rattata and Spirit who usually do not upset players often but in direct comparison I am still not comfortable to call them WORSE or lowering the skill ceiling. Also I dare say its not guaranteed they qualify in Europe at all. All in all I find it fair to give 2 slots to NA given they have 3 players you can consider top players. No region will feature ALL top players and the requirement to give for example OCE/ROA a slot who have basically no player on European level , nor Korean nor NA I think the split is alright.
Thats an as fair statement as I can make on that matter. You are obviously free to disagree but thats my take on it
PS: TSL had server qualifiers so not 100% accurate. EU gave up 2 slots to Maru&ByuN. NA Scarlett and Astrea qualified so that was still good but there is more to it (casting so I cant fully write it down)
Meanwhile in the LatAm qualifier Special and Cham didn t sign up. It would be been a Desaster if there had been a 2nd Slot for the Region or if Kelazur choose to try EU instead
On June 08 2022 06:21 [PkF] Wire wrote: Elazer nearly supply blocked instead of being at 70/186, Maru signing up for HSC... Everything I thought to be sure and stable in this world is turning upside down. Is soO going to win that code S season ?
So far Maru is keeping his word of trying to play in all the major EPT events, hopefully he can keep it up. But Dark is still a no-show for this event, and so far there is no Trap, Rogue, Cure signing up neither. Lets see how it goes with it, but availability seems to be an issue.
On June 07 2022 21:30 tigera6 wrote: Are the qualifier region-locked? If so, EU with 12 slots is ridiculously too many considering Serral and Reynor are invited already.
Yes it is region locked.
From signup numbers for the KR Qualifiers every one who signed up so far would qualify ... meanwhile EU already has 44 signups.
And if you compare it to low tier regions like OCE your comment is ludicrous.
NA with 2 seeds will mean of the 3 competitive NA players we will have 2, so I personally do not see any issues for that region either.
Btw. the invite of Serral is due to him being World Champ, so it has nothing to do with the region. (Reynor was 2nd in IEM btw.)
Tbh. imo EU and KR should haven gotten 1 more slot each and the low tier regions (NA, LatAm, CN, TW, OCE) should have had 1 single Qualifier with 4 slots total.
Please tell me you are joking, you are saying that the top 12-14 players in EU is head and shoulder above the other regions top 2-3 players in NA-LA-TW-OCE? I mean, no disrespect to EU players in general, but how the hell we can miss one of Scarlett-Astrea-Neeb from the tournament just because EU has 12 slot and NA has 2 slots? Thats not counting the players who are actually looking pretty good in the DH NA tournament recently like Disk and Trigger. Also that means Has and Nice will have one guy missing the tournament because of the stupid region restriction.
Like how did we go from a typical DH slot allocation of 6-4-2-1-1-1-1 to a 12-12-2-1-1-1-1 format for this tournament and acting like we care about developing/giving support for the lesser region? Could we have a common qualifier where we have 4-6 slot that can be fought between player from different regions, at least giving them a chance to compete for more slots?
There is a caveat, that this is an offline event and not all players outside of EU are willing to travel there. So its fair if more slots are given to EU players just base off availability alone, but thats why I think we should have a common qualifier for all the regions to compete if they are good enough and want to travel to the event.
i mean idk about head and shoulders but if we for example look at the top 12 of the current DH Valencia for EU it goes:
i don't feel super confident saying Scarlett is CLEARLY better than those guys, for example.
Scarlett is definitely better than several of those players and at least somewhat close to half of them. 2 slots for NA does lower the competitions skill level.
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I personally disagree with your statement. Can Scarlett win matches against those players? Yes. Is she better? I don't think so. There is not one player I would favor Scarlett in a bo5 right now.
If you want to go through it:
Serral - Scarlett is worse Lambo - Scarlett is worse Reynor - Scarlett is worse Showtime - Scarlett is worse Elazer - Scarlett is worse Clem - Scarlett is worse Harstem - on current meta PvZ I believe Harstem is better Heromarine - Scarlett is worse Maxpax - Scarlett is worse Rattata - Scarlett is even, potentially better depending on her form Spirit - Scarlett is worse but I think Spirit is shaky in performance sometimes Skillous - SKillous current form is also better than Scarlett ZvP
Scarlett looked pretty bad against Neeb and Astrea in her ZvP. I know she is a player that can destroy when she is on point but her current form didn't look super great. The weaker players on that list which would be
Harstem, Rattata, Spirit and SKillous for most are still in the current form at least competetive if not better. Saying 2 slots for NA makes the competition worse is just wrong. If you would host global qualifiers on the NA server (15 with 2 slots each) I doubt we would see Astrea, Neeb and Scarlett qualify.
Scarlett has been performing poor lately but is still higher than 3 of them on aligulac. Depending on when this decision was made it's likely she was a decent amount higher on aligulac at that time. I'll admit I was also thinking a lot about historical and potential skill. I give Scarlett a much higher chance of upsetting a top player than Harstem, Spirit, or Rattata even though they're relatively close in rating and recent performance and I don't think that's a controversial thought process.
For your last part I agree but only because I think the spots would be taken by KR players in that scenario. If we look at the last 32 player event with open qualifiers (TSL 8) we had 16 Koreans, 12 EU pros, and 2 NA (with the caveat that Neeb never tried to qualify). EU is already guaranteed 2 more spots than how they performed there.
Don't get me wrong. I am a big Scarlett fan when she is on form. She can put out absolutely stunning performances and has shown to do so but her recent for is at best shaky. Aligulac rating is nice but unfortunately its also a rating that takes into account performance over a long period.
Europe has two invites for the reason of Serral being the current world champion and Reynor being #1 EPT at the time of the invite. If you want to look into recent performance. Harstem did upset Heromarine as top player 3-2 in Dreamhack. Harstem upset ShoWTimE today in HSC qualifiers.
I only agree on Rattata and Spirit who usually do not upset players often but in direct comparison I am still not comfortable to call them WORSE or lowering the skill ceiling. Also I dare say its not guaranteed they qualify in Europe at all. All in all I find it fair to give 2 slots to NA given they have 3 players you can consider top players. No region will feature ALL top players and the requirement to give for example OCE/ROA a slot who have basically no player on European level , nor Korean nor NA I think the split is alright.
Thats an as fair statement as I can make on that matter. You are obviously free to disagree but thats my take on it
PS: TSL had server qualifiers so not 100% accurate. EU gave up 2 slots to Maru&ByuN. NA Scarlett and Astrea qualified so that was still good but there is more to it (casting so I cant fully write it down)
I could agree with the EU players being better up to around top 10 (Serral-Reynor-Clem-HM-MaxPax-Showtime-Lambo-Elazer-Skillous-Harstem). But the other 5 spots (because Serral-Reynor are invited and MaxPax not likely to join) are truly up for grab if you make it a non-region-lock qualifier even against non-KR players.
I would put the top 1 or 2 players in each of the other regions (except OCE) against the rest of the EU guys and feeling good about their chance. Has/Nice are good, Time/Cyan are also good, Special/Kelazhur/Chamr are just as good, and so are Disk/Trigger. As for Scarlett, she did beat Astrea in the DH NA group stage so I am not sure how you are convinced that she is shaky at the moment. If you put the last 3 qualifying slots from EU, 2 from NA, 1 from each other regions (other than OCE) together, and make them all play the qualifier for those 8 slots (if my math is right), would the expected result be more or less slot for EU? Thats where we ultimately disagree on, you think EU would take at least 3 and even more, I think the other regions can take more than the current number of slot base on competition.
Of course any non-region-lock qualifier will ultimately be flooded with KRs anyway so thats not a good solution. Also I, know that because of how things has turned out (Special/Time/Charm didnt even play and Scarlett/Astrea are not signing up so far), it might be a moot point for all of these discussion.
On June 07 2022 21:30 tigera6 wrote: Are the qualifier region-locked? If so, EU with 12 slots is ridiculously too many considering Serral and Reynor are invited already.
Yes it is region locked.
From signup numbers for the KR Qualifiers every one who signed up so far would qualify ... meanwhile EU already has 44 signups.
And if you compare it to low tier regions like OCE your comment is ludicrous.
NA with 2 seeds will mean of the 3 competitive NA players we will have 2, so I personally do not see any issues for that region either.
Btw. the invite of Serral is due to him being World Champ, so it has nothing to do with the region. (Reynor was 2nd in IEM btw.)
Tbh. imo EU and KR should haven gotten 1 more slot each and the low tier regions (NA, LatAm, CN, TW, OCE) should have had 1 single Qualifier with 4 slots total.
Please tell me you are joking, you are saying that the top 12-14 players in EU is head and shoulder above the other regions top 2-3 players in NA-LA-TW-OCE? I mean, no disrespect to EU players in general, but how the hell we can miss one of Scarlett-Astrea-Neeb from the tournament just because EU has 12 slot and NA has 2 slots? Thats not counting the players who are actually looking pretty good in the DH NA tournament recently like Disk and Trigger. Also that means Has and Nice will have one guy missing the tournament because of the stupid region restriction.
Like how did we go from a typical DH slot allocation of 6-4-2-1-1-1-1 to a 12-12-2-1-1-1-1 format for this tournament and acting like we care about developing/giving support for the lesser region? Could we have a common qualifier where we have 4-6 slot that can be fought between player from different regions, at least giving them a chance to compete for more slots?
There is a caveat, that this is an offline event and not all players outside of EU are willing to travel there. So its fair if more slots are given to EU players just base off availability alone, but thats why I think we should have a common qualifier for all the regions to compete if they are good enough and want to travel to the event.
i mean idk about head and shoulders but if we for example look at the top 12 of the current DH Valencia for EU it goes:
i don't feel super confident saying Scarlett is CLEARLY better than those guys, for example.
Scarlett is definitely better than several of those players and at least somewhat close to half of them. 2 slots for NA does lower the competitions skill level.
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I personally disagree with your statement. Can Scarlett win matches against those players? Yes. Is she better? I don't think so. There is not one player I would favor Scarlett in a bo5 right now.
If you want to go through it:
Serral - Scarlett is worse Lambo - Scarlett is worse Reynor - Scarlett is worse Showtime - Scarlett is worse Elazer - Scarlett is worse Clem - Scarlett is worse Harstem - on current meta PvZ I believe Harstem is better Heromarine - Scarlett is worse Maxpax - Scarlett is worse Rattata - Scarlett is even, potentially better depending on her form Spirit - Scarlett is worse but I think Spirit is shaky in performance sometimes Skillous - SKillous current form is also better than Scarlett ZvP
Scarlett looked pretty bad against Neeb and Astrea in her ZvP. I know she is a player that can destroy when she is on point but her current form didn't look super great. The weaker players on that list which would be
Harstem, Rattata, Spirit and SKillous for most are still in the current form at least competetive if not better. Saying 2 slots for NA makes the competition worse is just wrong. If you would host global qualifiers on the NA server (15 with 2 slots each) I doubt we would see Astrea, Neeb and Scarlett qualify.
Scarlett has been performing poor lately but is still higher than 3 of them on aligulac. Depending on when this decision was made it's likely she was a decent amount higher on aligulac at that time. I'll admit I was also thinking a lot about historical and potential skill. I give Scarlett a much higher chance of upsetting a top player than Harstem, Spirit, or Rattata even though they're relatively close in rating and recent performance and I don't think that's a controversial thought process.
For your last part I agree but only because I think the spots would be taken by KR players in that scenario. If we look at the last 32 player event with open qualifiers (TSL 8) we had 16 Koreans, 12 EU pros, and 2 NA (with the caveat that Neeb never tried to qualify). EU is already guaranteed 2 more spots than how they performed there.
Don't get me wrong. I am a big Scarlett fan when she is on form. She can put out absolutely stunning performances and has shown to do so but her recent for is at best shaky. Aligulac rating is nice but unfortunately its also a rating that takes into account performance over a long period.
Europe has two invites for the reason of Serral being the current world champion and Reynor being #1 EPT at the time of the invite. If you want to look into recent performance. Harstem did upset Heromarine as top player 3-2 in Dreamhack. Harstem upset ShoWTimE today in HSC qualifiers.
I only agree on Rattata and Spirit who usually do not upset players often but in direct comparison I am still not comfortable to call them WORSE or lowering the skill ceiling. Also I dare say its not guaranteed they qualify in Europe at all. All in all I find it fair to give 2 slots to NA given they have 3 players you can consider top players. No region will feature ALL top players and the requirement to give for example OCE/ROA a slot who have basically no player on European level , nor Korean nor NA I think the split is alright.
Thats an as fair statement as I can make on that matter. You are obviously free to disagree but thats my take on it
PS: TSL had server qualifiers so not 100% accurate. EU gave up 2 slots to Maru&ByuN. NA Scarlett and Astrea qualified so that was still good but there is more to it (casting so I cant fully write it down)
I could agree with the EU players being better up to around top 10 (Serral-Reynor-Clem-HM-MaxPax-Showtime-Lambo-Elazer-Skillous-Harstem). But the other 5 spots (because Serral-Reynor are invited and MaxPax not likely to join) are truly up for grab if you make it a non-region-lock qualifier even against non-KR players.
I would put the top 1 or 2 players in each of the other regions (except OCE) against the rest of the EU guys and feeling good about their chance. Has/Nice are good, Time/Cyan are also good, Special/Kelazhur/Chamr are just as good, and so are Disk/Trigger. As for Scarlett, she did beat Astrea in the DH NA group stage so I am not sure how you are convinced that she is shaky at the moment. If you put the last 3 qualifying slots from EU, 2 from NA, 1 from each other regions (other than OCE) together, and make them all play the qualifier for those 8 slots (if my math is right), would the expected result be more or less slot for EU? Thats where we ultimately disagree on, you think EU would take at least 3 and even more, I think the other regions can take more than the current number of slot base on competition.
Of course any non-region-lock qualifier will ultimately be flooded with KRs anyway so thats not a good solution. Also I, know that because of how things has turned out (Special/Time/Charm didnt even play and Scarlett/Astrea are not signing up so far), it might be a moot point for all of these discussion.
Looking at the KR scene in general and signups of todays qualifier no 1 that is just not true So far there are 11 decent Players in the Kr qualifier Maru Creator Byun Solar Armani Zoun DRG Gumiho herO Classic Ryung Apart from Maru and maybe herO non of them is significantly better than the non invited EU boys Just look at WTL and the NA Open Cups where EU and KR players clash regularly
E.: Ragnarok signed up as well, so now we have 12! decent players in the first KR qualifer. The competition is fierce, there should be way more spots /s
On June 07 2022 21:30 tigera6 wrote: Are the qualifier region-locked? If so, EU with 12 slots is ridiculously too many considering Serral and Reynor are invited already.
Yes it is region locked.
From signup numbers for the KR Qualifiers every one who signed up so far would qualify ... meanwhile EU already has 44 signups.
And if you compare it to low tier regions like OCE your comment is ludicrous.
NA with 2 seeds will mean of the 3 competitive NA players we will have 2, so I personally do not see any issues for that region either.
Btw. the invite of Serral is due to him being World Champ, so it has nothing to do with the region. (Reynor was 2nd in IEM btw.)
Tbh. imo EU and KR should haven gotten 1 more slot each and the low tier regions (NA, LatAm, CN, TW, OCE) should have had 1 single Qualifier with 4 slots total.
Please tell me you are joking, you are saying that the top 12-14 players in EU is head and shoulder above the other regions top 2-3 players in NA-LA-TW-OCE? I mean, no disrespect to EU players in general, but how the hell we can miss one of Scarlett-Astrea-Neeb from the tournament just because EU has 12 slot and NA has 2 slots? Thats not counting the players who are actually looking pretty good in the DH NA tournament recently like Disk and Trigger. Also that means Has and Nice will have one guy missing the tournament because of the stupid region restriction.
Like how did we go from a typical DH slot allocation of 6-4-2-1-1-1-1 to a 12-12-2-1-1-1-1 format for this tournament and acting like we care about developing/giving support for the lesser region? Could we have a common qualifier where we have 4-6 slot that can be fought between player from different regions, at least giving them a chance to compete for more slots?
There is a caveat, that this is an offline event and not all players outside of EU are willing to travel there. So its fair if more slots are given to EU players just base off availability alone, but thats why I think we should have a common qualifier for all the regions to compete if they are good enough and want to travel to the event.
i mean idk about head and shoulders but if we for example look at the top 12 of the current DH Valencia for EU it goes:
i don't feel super confident saying Scarlett is CLEARLY better than those guys, for example.
Scarlett is definitely better than several of those players and at least somewhat close to half of them. 2 slots for NA does lower the competitions skill level.
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I personally disagree with your statement. Can Scarlett win matches against those players? Yes. Is she better? I don't think so. There is not one player I would favor Scarlett in a bo5 right now.
If you want to go through it:
Serral - Scarlett is worse Lambo - Scarlett is worse Reynor - Scarlett is worse Showtime - Scarlett is worse Elazer - Scarlett is worse Clem - Scarlett is worse Harstem - on current meta PvZ I believe Harstem is better Heromarine - Scarlett is worse Maxpax - Scarlett is worse Rattata - Scarlett is even, potentially better depending on her form Spirit - Scarlett is worse but I think Spirit is shaky in performance sometimes Skillous - SKillous current form is also better than Scarlett ZvP
Scarlett looked pretty bad against Neeb and Astrea in her ZvP. I know she is a player that can destroy when she is on point but her current form didn't look super great. The weaker players on that list which would be
Harstem, Rattata, Spirit and SKillous for most are still in the current form at least competetive if not better. Saying 2 slots for NA makes the competition worse is just wrong. If you would host global qualifiers on the NA server (15 with 2 slots each) I doubt we would see Astrea, Neeb and Scarlett qualify.
Scarlett is 11-1 in the world team league, well ahead of everybody else on that list.
On June 07 2022 21:30 tigera6 wrote: Are the qualifier region-locked? If so, EU with 12 slots is ridiculously too many considering Serral and Reynor are invited already.
Yes it is region locked.
From signup numbers for the KR Qualifiers every one who signed up so far would qualify ... meanwhile EU already has 44 signups.
And if you compare it to low tier regions like OCE your comment is ludicrous.
NA with 2 seeds will mean of the 3 competitive NA players we will have 2, so I personally do not see any issues for that region either.
Btw. the invite of Serral is due to him being World Champ, so it has nothing to do with the region. (Reynor was 2nd in IEM btw.)
Tbh. imo EU and KR should haven gotten 1 more slot each and the low tier regions (NA, LatAm, CN, TW, OCE) should have had 1 single Qualifier with 4 slots total.
Please tell me you are joking, you are saying that the top 12-14 players in EU is head and shoulder above the other regions top 2-3 players in NA-LA-TW-OCE? I mean, no disrespect to EU players in general, but how the hell we can miss one of Scarlett-Astrea-Neeb from the tournament just because EU has 12 slot and NA has 2 slots? Thats not counting the players who are actually looking pretty good in the DH NA tournament recently like Disk and Trigger. Also that means Has and Nice will have one guy missing the tournament because of the stupid region restriction.
Like how did we go from a typical DH slot allocation of 6-4-2-1-1-1-1 to a 12-12-2-1-1-1-1 format for this tournament and acting like we care about developing/giving support for the lesser region? Could we have a common qualifier where we have 4-6 slot that can be fought between player from different regions, at least giving them a chance to compete for more slots?
There is a caveat, that this is an offline event and not all players outside of EU are willing to travel there. So its fair if more slots are given to EU players just base off availability alone, but thats why I think we should have a common qualifier for all the regions to compete if they are good enough and want to travel to the event.
i mean idk about head and shoulders but if we for example look at the top 12 of the current DH Valencia for EU it goes:
i don't feel super confident saying Scarlett is CLEARLY better than those guys, for example.
Scarlett is definitely better than several of those players and at least somewhat close to half of them. 2 slots for NA does lower the competitions skill level.
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I personally disagree with your statement. Can Scarlett win matches against those players? Yes. Is she better? I don't think so. There is not one player I would favor Scarlett in a bo5 right now.
If you want to go through it:
Serral - Scarlett is worse Lambo - Scarlett is worse Reynor - Scarlett is worse Showtime - Scarlett is worse Elazer - Scarlett is worse Clem - Scarlett is worse Harstem - on current meta PvZ I believe Harstem is better Heromarine - Scarlett is worse Maxpax - Scarlett is worse Rattata - Scarlett is even, potentially better depending on her form Spirit - Scarlett is worse but I think Spirit is shaky in performance sometimes Skillous - SKillous current form is also better than Scarlett ZvP
Scarlett looked pretty bad against Neeb and Astrea in her ZvP. I know she is a player that can destroy when she is on point but her current form didn't look super great. The weaker players on that list which would be
Harstem, Rattata, Spirit and SKillous for most are still in the current form at least competetive if not better. Saying 2 slots for NA makes the competition worse is just wrong. If you would host global qualifiers on the NA server (15 with 2 slots each) I doubt we would see Astrea, Neeb and Scarlett qualify.
Scarlett is 11-1 in the world team league, well ahead of everybody else on that list.
GuMiHo and Reynor are good performances by her. MaNa is also considered a good player in Europe even though I would rate him as Scarlett, shaky in performance from very good to pretty mediocre.
Botvinnik isn't considered a good player in Europe. At best decent but he cannot even make Dreamhack if you want to rate the region. Cyan is CN, Silky is CN .. those matches are irrelevant for the comparison against Europe. Cyan is clearly superior to Silky and I dare say Cyan wouldn't be a scary player in EU overall. While he could beat people he would certainly not be favored against the mentioned list.
You can gladly go ahead and compare the other players performances. You will find a lot of irrelevant matches for this discussion and you will especially realize that most have very few matches. (less relevant even). The best comparison is probably rattata who is 4-6 with at least 10 matches which I stated above is even or slightly worse than Scarlett. I don't see how WTL changes anything I pointed out.
On June 07 2022 21:30 tigera6 wrote: Are the qualifier region-locked? If so, EU with 12 slots is ridiculously too many considering Serral and Reynor are invited already.
Yes it is region locked.
From signup numbers for the KR Qualifiers every one who signed up so far would qualify ... meanwhile EU already has 44 signups.
And if you compare it to low tier regions like OCE your comment is ludicrous.
NA with 2 seeds will mean of the 3 competitive NA players we will have 2, so I personally do not see any issues for that region either.
Btw. the invite of Serral is due to him being World Champ, so it has nothing to do with the region. (Reynor was 2nd in IEM btw.)
Tbh. imo EU and KR should haven gotten 1 more slot each and the low tier regions (NA, LatAm, CN, TW, OCE) should have had 1 single Qualifier with 4 slots total.
Rogue cannot leave Korea due to being to close to mandatory military service (27+ of age). Thus he will not participate in the HSC qualifiers. Trap has the same issue.
On June 07 2022 21:30 tigera6 wrote: Are the qualifier region-locked? If so, EU with 12 slots is ridiculously too many considering Serral and Reynor are invited already.
Yes it is region locked.
From signup numbers for the KR Qualifiers every one who signed up so far would qualify ... meanwhile EU already has 44 signups.
And if you compare it to low tier regions like OCE your comment is ludicrous.
NA with 2 seeds will mean of the 3 competitive NA players we will have 2, so I personally do not see any issues for that region either.
Btw. the invite of Serral is due to him being World Champ, so it has nothing to do with the region. (Reynor was 2nd in IEM btw.)
Tbh. imo EU and KR should haven gotten 1 more slot each and the low tier regions (NA, LatAm, CN, TW, OCE) should have had 1 single Qualifier with 4 slots total.
Please tell me you are joking, you are saying that the top 12-14 players in EU is head and shoulder above the other regions top 2-3 players in NA-LA-TW-OCE? I mean, no disrespect to EU players in general, but how the hell we can miss one of Scarlett-Astrea-Neeb from the tournament just because EU has 12 slot and NA has 2 slots? Thats not counting the players who are actually looking pretty good in the DH NA tournament recently like Disk and Trigger. Also that means Has and Nice will have one guy missing the tournament because of the stupid region restriction.
Like how did we go from a typical DH slot allocation of 6-4-2-1-1-1-1 to a 12-12-2-1-1-1-1 format for this tournament and acting like we care about developing/giving support for the lesser region? Could we have a common qualifier where we have 4-6 slot that can be fought between player from different regions, at least giving them a chance to compete for more slots?
There is a caveat, that this is an offline event and not all players outside of EU are willing to travel there. So its fair if more slots are given to EU players just base off availability alone, but thats why I think we should have a common qualifier for all the regions to compete if they are good enough and want to travel to the event.
i mean idk about head and shoulders but if we for example look at the top 12 of the current DH Valencia for EU it goes:
i don't feel super confident saying Scarlett is CLEARLY better than those guys, for example.
Scarlett is definitely better than several of those players and at least somewhat close to half of them. 2 slots for NA does lower the competitions skill level.
Serral - Scarlett is worse Lambo - Scarlett is better or even if not in form Reynor - Scarlett is worse or even if Reynor is not in form Showtime - Scarlett is worse Elazer - Scarlett is even Clem - Scarlett is worse Harstem - Scarlett is better Heromarine - Scarlett is worse Maxpax - Scarlett is worse Rattata - Scarlett is miles better always, not dependent on form at all Spirit - Scarlett is better Skillous - Scarlett is better, maybe even when not in form and Skillous playing like he is in recent weeks
Fixed it for you. Your assessment was completely ridiculous...
On June 07 2022 21:30 tigera6 wrote: Are the qualifier region-locked? If so, EU with 12 slots is ridiculously too many considering Serral and Reynor are invited already.
Yes it is region locked.
From signup numbers for the KR Qualifiers every one who signed up so far would qualify ... meanwhile EU already has 44 signups.
And if you compare it to low tier regions like OCE your comment is ludicrous.
NA with 2 seeds will mean of the 3 competitive NA players we will have 2, so I personally do not see any issues for that region either.
Btw. the invite of Serral is due to him being World Champ, so it has nothing to do with the region. (Reynor was 2nd in IEM btw.)
Tbh. imo EU and KR should haven gotten 1 more slot each and the low tier regions (NA, LatAm, CN, TW, OCE) should have had 1 single Qualifier with 4 slots total.
Please tell me you are joking, you are saying that the top 12-14 players in EU is head and shoulder above the other regions top 2-3 players in NA-LA-TW-OCE? I mean, no disrespect to EU players in general, but how the hell we can miss one of Scarlett-Astrea-Neeb from the tournament just because EU has 12 slot and NA has 2 slots? Thats not counting the players who are actually looking pretty good in the DH NA tournament recently like Disk and Trigger. Also that means Has and Nice will have one guy missing the tournament because of the stupid region restriction.
Like how did we go from a typical DH slot allocation of 6-4-2-1-1-1-1 to a 12-12-2-1-1-1-1 format for this tournament and acting like we care about developing/giving support for the lesser region? Could we have a common qualifier where we have 4-6 slot that can be fought between player from different regions, at least giving them a chance to compete for more slots?
There is a caveat, that this is an offline event and not all players outside of EU are willing to travel there. So its fair if more slots are given to EU players just base off availability alone, but thats why I think we should have a common qualifier for all the regions to compete if they are good enough and want to travel to the event.
i mean idk about head and shoulders but if we for example look at the top 12 of the current DH Valencia for EU it goes:
i don't feel super confident saying Scarlett is CLEARLY better than those guys, for example.
Scarlett is definitely better than several of those players and at least somewhat close to half of them. 2 slots for NA does lower the competitions skill level.
Serral - Scarlett is worse Lambo - Scarlett is better or even if not in form Reynor - Scarlett is worse or even if Reynor is not in form Showtime - Scarlett is worse Elazer - Scarlett is even Clem - Scarlett is worse Harstem - Scarlett is better Heromarine - Scarlett is worse Maxpax - Scarlett is worse Rattata - Scarlett is miles better always, not dependent on form at all Spirit - Scarlett is better Skillous - Scarlett is better, maybe even when not in form and Skillous playing like he is in recent weeks
Fixed it for you. Your assessment was completely ridiculous...
Imagine calling Scarlett better especially in ZvP when she bombed out off Dreamhack vs Neeb and Astrea frankly with little to no chance in those best of 5s and writing off Harstem who is quoted by pros as one of the best PvZ currently. SKillous is also performing really good in PvZ recently.
The good thing is - if she is as good as some people here say she'll easily take one of the NA spots and also seemingly dominate the HSC. I personally don't see my assassment as ridiculous but rather yours but as mentioned before - that is within your own right.
On June 10 2022 01:00 TaKeTV wrote: Rogue cannot leave Korea due to being to close to mandatory military service (27+ of age). Thus he will not participate in the HSC qualifiers. Trap has the same issue.
I believe Cure might be the case as well.
Shit that suck, so that mean no Rogue at Valencia? Terrible news if that's the case
On June 10 2022 09:56 TossHeroes wrote: Can’t really people are really arguing over this whole Scarlett situation
Top 10 EU easily are better than Scarlett
And yet outside of the obvious ones none of them have achieved anywhere near as much as Scarlett despite mostly playing the game just as long as her. Even if you only look at recent results Scarlett took top 4 in an international premier in October. When's the last time a mid tier EU pro did that? Obviously Serral/Reynor/Clem/HM have. Lambo did as well. But once you get past those EU results drop off fast.
The whole non EU foreign scene is so underrated. Scarlett/Neeb/Astrea/Time/Special are all just as good as any EU player besides Serral/Reynor/Clem/HM. Showtime might be slightly more consistent. Players like Nice/Has/Kelazhur aren't that far behind that tier either.
Form varies a lot of course but if there was an event without the top 4 of EU and no KR players I would bet on the rest of the world group pretty comfortably.
On June 10 2022 09:56 TossHeroes wrote: Can’t really people are really arguing over this whole Scarlett situation
Top 10 EU easily are better than Scarlett
And yet outside of the obvious ones none of them have achieved anywhere near as much as Scarlett despite mostly playing the game just as long as her. Even if you only look at recent results Scarlett took top 4 in an international premier in October. When's the last time a mid tier EU pro did that? Obviously Serral/Reynor/Clem/HM have. Lambo did as well. But once you get past those EU results drop off fast.
The whole non EU foreign scene is so underrated. Scarlett/Neeb/Astrea/Time/Special are all just as good as any EU player besides Serral/Reynor/Clem/HM. Showtime might be slightly more consistent. Players like Nice/Has/Kelazhur aren't that far behind that tier either.
Form varies a lot of course but if there was an event without the top 4 of EU and no KR players I would bet on the rest of the world group pretty comfortably.
When you are in Europe you dont get to go to international events cause Serral, Reynor, Clem and (most of the time) HeroMarine just take those 4 spots.
For Scarlett its absolutely a matter of form and meta how good she is. She can be a beast but she can just as easily be pretty weak.
Neeb/TIME/SpeCial I would all rate more consistent in their performance. Astrea showed really good performances as well in the recent past but then you also have matches like the bo5 vs DisK where you have to ask yourself whats happening.
And without shitting on Scarletts result, the top 4 is essentially off of 3 great games. Its a very good result but its not like this invalidates the general term that EU is higher in level.
Ask yourself this: If you put Scarlett in the EU region, do you consider her finsihing behind Gabe or losing/ dropping only to the top 5? I dont. She can absolutely lose to more people beyond that list even in bo5.
Someone said that Skillous is was worse even in current form as example. Skillous beat Scarlett 2-0 on KoB qualifier and certainly meta is different now and he is better in this meta. Obviously also a single not super meaningful result. I might come across too harsh in my rating but some people here sound like she would be a consistent top 8 guaranteed in the EU region which I simply dont see.
It would be really nice to see a region player swap and set up round robin groups. To me outside of Korea I consider
Neeb, TIME, SpeCial,Scarlett, Astrea.... Cyan, Nice
With the note that both Astrea and Scarlett can be better than their average Performance by a long Shot. Kelazhur lives and usually plays EU so I dont put him into the NA/LA region even though 2022 he played there.
All in all it greatly helps to be in the NA region to qualify for international events and having any pro from EU below Serral, Clem, Reynor and HeroMarine put into NA (Dreamhack as example) makes him a very viable player for deep runs or qualification
On June 10 2022 01:00 TaKeTV wrote: Rogue cannot leave Korea due to being to close to mandatory military service (27+ of age). Thus he will not participate in the HSC qualifiers. Trap has the same issue.
I believe Cure might be the case as well.
Shit that suck, so that mean no Rogue at Valencia? Terrible news if that's the case
On June 10 2022 01:00 TaKeTV wrote: Rogue cannot leave Korea due to being to close to mandatory military service (27+ of age). Thus he will not participate in the HSC qualifiers. Trap has the same issue.
I believe Cure might be the case as well.
Shit that suck, so that mean no Rogue at Valencia? Terrible news if that's the case
Yep no Rogue. Trap shouldnt be there either
Was this confirmed by ESL yet? I know its still 3 weeks to go till Valencia, but there has been no indication on that. I mean, if Zest was able to travel to IEM, then surely Rogue and Trap can do it now, unless they have been noticed to join the military already.
On June 10 2022 01:00 TaKeTV wrote: Rogue cannot leave Korea due to being to close to mandatory military service (27+ of age). Thus he will not participate in the HSC qualifiers. Trap has the same issue.
I believe Cure might be the case as well.
Shit that suck, so that mean no Rogue at Valencia? Terrible news if that's the case
Yep no Rogue. Trap shouldnt be there either
Was this confirmed by ESL yet? I know its still 3 weeks to go till Valencia, but there has been no indication on that. I mean, if Zest was able to travel to IEM, then surely Rogue and Trap can do it now, unless they have been noticed to join the military already.
I can confirm it for Rogue. Trap said himself some time ago that he played his last international tournament. There will be an ESL announcement in the future. I am sure of it.
Zest / IEM was a different matter and afaik there was a bigger effort / on political level to make that happen. (Ie ministry of xy involved etc)
Edit: also speaking directly with Rogue should be confirmation 😅
On June 10 2022 01:00 TaKeTV wrote: Rogue cannot leave Korea due to being to close to mandatory military service (27+ of age). Thus he will not participate in the HSC qualifiers. Trap has the same issue.
I believe Cure might be the case as well.
Shit that suck, so that mean no Rogue at Valencia? Terrible news if that's the case
Yep no Rogue. Trap shouldnt be there either
Was this confirmed by ESL yet? I know its still 3 weeks to go till Valencia, but there has been no indication on that. I mean, if Zest was able to travel to IEM, then surely Rogue and Trap can do it now, unless they have been noticed to join the military already.
I can confirm it for Rogue. Trap said himself some time ago that he played his last international tournament. There will be an ESL announcement in the future. I am sure of it.
Zest / IEM was a different matter and afaik there was a bigger effort / on political level to make that happen. (Ie ministry of xy involved etc)
Edit: also speaking directly with Rogue should be confirmation 😅
Damn, Zest is just THAT special than the rest of them then. What a blow to the KR level of competition, losing top player for each race (if Cure aslo has the same problem). Solar, Creator and Bunny better leveling up their game quickly.
On June 10 2022 01:00 TaKeTV wrote: Rogue cannot leave Korea due to being to close to mandatory military service (27+ of age). Thus he will not participate in the HSC qualifiers. Trap has the same issue.
I believe Cure might be the case as well.
Shit that suck, so that mean no Rogue at Valencia? Terrible news if that's the case
Yep no Rogue. Trap shouldnt be there either
Was this confirmed by ESL yet? I know its still 3 weeks to go till Valencia, but there has been no indication on that. I mean, if Zest was able to travel to IEM, then surely Rogue and Trap can do it now, unless they have been noticed to join the military already.
I can confirm it for Rogue. Trap said himself some time ago that he played his last international tournament. There will be an ESL announcement in the future. I am sure of it.
Zest / IEM was a different matter and afaik there was a bigger effort / on political level to make that happen. (Ie ministry of xy involved etc)
Edit: also speaking directly with Rogue should be confirmation 😅
Damn, Zest is just THAT special than the rest of them then. What a blow to the KR level of competition, losing top player for each race (if Cure aslo has the same problem). Solar, Creator and Bunny better leveling up their game quickly.
I gues when you re arguing with minstry xyz it helps, that IEM was the world championship, so it was probably easier to get permission than "just" for HSC or a Dreamhack
On June 10 2022 20:07 SHODAN wrote: I wonder why maru and others keep disappearing from the bracket? maru and ryung both signed up but now they are gone
At least 3rd qualifier exist, and Maru sign up for that one too. I think he didnt know which one he would play so he just signed up for all 3 qualifiers.
On June 10 2022 20:52 tigera6 wrote: Its least 3rd qualifier exist, and Maru sign up for that one too. I think he didnt know which one he would play so he just signed up for all 3 qualifiers.
That or Maru is the kind of person that answer "sound's fun!" when you tell him there's a party on the weekend, and then procede to ghost you when you ask him if he want to come.
But more seriously, I hope he goes. It be a shame having a 12+ years Starcraft career and never getting to see HSC, it would be like a foreigner that never got to go to Seoul.
On June 10 2022 20:52 tigera6 wrote: At least 3rd qualifier exist, and Maru sign up for that one too. I think he didnt know which one he would play so he just signed up for all 3 qualifiers.
actually maru signed up to the 3rd qualifier after the 2nd one started
On June 10 2022 20:52 tigera6 wrote: Its least 3rd qualifier exist, and Maru sign up for that one too. I think he didnt know which one he would play so he just signed up for all 3 qualifiers.
That or Maru is the kind of person that answer "sound's fun!" when you tell him there's a party on the weekend, and then procede to ghost you when you ask him if he want to come.
But more seriously, I hope he goes. It be a shame having a 12+ years Starcraft career and never getting to see HSC, it would be like a foreigner that never got to go to Seoul.
the 3rd and final KR qualifier will be the easiest, since it won't be stacked with the players who already qualified. by saving himself for the last qualifier, Maru removes the risk of having to show his builds more than necessary. maybe that's it, or maybe he's just a party pooper
On June 10 2022 01:00 TaKeTV wrote: Rogue cannot leave Korea due to being to close to mandatory military service (27+ of age). Thus he will not participate in the HSC qualifiers. Trap has the same issue.
I believe Cure might be the case as well.
Shit that suck, so that mean no Rogue at Valencia? Terrible news if that's the case
Yep no Rogue. Trap shouldnt be there either
Was this confirmed by ESL yet? I know its still 3 weeks to go till Valencia, but there has been no indication on that. I mean, if Zest was able to travel to IEM, then surely Rogue and Trap can do it now, unless they have been noticed to join the military already.
I can confirm it for Rogue. Trap said himself some time ago that he played his last international tournament. There will be an ESL announcement in the future. I am sure of it.
Zest / IEM was a different matter and afaik there was a bigger effort / on political level to make that happen. (Ie ministry of xy involved etc)
Edit: also speaking directly with Rogue should be confirmation 😅
I know it probably won't happen, but I really hope they let him and Trap play from Korea (plus Time and Meo if visa problems were to hapen). It really be a shame to miss them, hell there's a decent chance every GSL champ this year will be lock in Korea
On June 10 2022 01:00 TaKeTV wrote: Rogue cannot leave Korea due to being to close to mandatory military service (27+ of age). Thus he will not participate in the HSC qualifiers. Trap has the same issue.
I believe Cure might be the case as well.
Shit that suck, so that mean no Rogue at Valencia? Terrible news if that's the case
Yep no Rogue. Trap shouldnt be there either
Was this confirmed by ESL yet? I know its still 3 weeks to go till Valencia, but there has been no indication on that. I mean, if Zest was able to travel to IEM, then surely Rogue and Trap can do it now, unless they have been noticed to join the military already.
I can confirm it for Rogue. Trap said himself some time ago that he played his last international tournament. There will be an ESL announcement in the future. I am sure of it.
Zest / IEM was a different matter and afaik there was a bigger effort / on political level to make that happen. (Ie ministry of xy involved etc)
Edit: also speaking directly with Rogue should be confirmation 😅
I know it probably won't happen, but I really hope they let him and Trap play from Korea (plus Time and Meo if visa problems were to hapen). It really be a shame to miss them, hell there's a decent chance every GSL champ this year will be lock in Korea
Problem is NA has 2 consistent good players (astrea, neeb) and scarlett who is more on and off, so if NA had e.g. a third slot this qual we would have gotten maybe Nina or Trigger, who are both imo not on the lvl of the left eu players (that are expected to qualify).
On June 15 2022 18:25 darklycid wrote: Problem is NA has 2 consistent good players (astrea, neeb) and scarlett who is more on and off, so if NA had e.g. a third slot this qual we would have gotten maybe Nina or Trigger, who are both imo not on the lvl of the left eu players (that are expected to qualify).
agreed
maybe a if scarlett has a good day it is 3 slost, if not it is 2 rule could be implemented XD
On June 15 2022 09:24 argonautdice wrote: Kind of surprised NA only gets 2 region-locked spots out of 32, while EU basically gets 14.
I'd agree, it feels like they're going to be scraping the bottom of the barrel on the last qualifier.
From the top of my head eu still has
Harstem
Rattata
PtitDrogo
MaNa
DnS
plus probably some more for the 3rd Qualifier who i would put skill wise above trigger who just barely did not make it in the NA Qualifier.
So imo giving more slots to NA would be wasted.
Thats also with Kelazhur deciding to participate in LatAm instead of EU which he often did. MaxPax not playing at all and Serral and Reynor being invites
On June 15 2022 09:24 argonautdice wrote: Kind of surprised NA only gets 2 region-locked spots out of 32, while EU basically gets 14.
The low attendance of the qualifier invalidates the merit of asking for a third NA slot, and that would also means that out of 13 players, 25 percent of them should qualify ? hum ... Also seeing at least one of Neeb, Astrea or Scarlett getting booted out instead of all the three being almost guaranteed to go to Krefeld sounds more exciting, and anyway is merely mirroring the number of seeded NA slots for Valencia. I also don't like too much why so few players from NA play in the Open Cups or similar events, which I suspect is part of the why behind Take's and hpjalpha's arguments.
The wider disagreement also has to do with the divide between those wanting to focus the slot allocation purely on merit/MMR/insert coin wise vs region fans who want more for those they support (anything outside Korea, Invites and EU). None side is either more right or wrong than the other but the organizer made his choice and it's final.
EDIT : Specific tidbit about Scarlett, being able to score a lot of points in WTL has been balanced with getting beaten 0-2 by Nina and getting 0-5 in IEM, even playing the national lotto is less random than that.
On June 15 2022 09:24 argonautdice wrote: Kind of surprised NA only gets 2 region-locked spots out of 32, while EU basically gets 14.
The low attendance of the qualifier invalidates the merit of asking for a third NA slot, and that would also means that out of 13 players, 25 percent of them should qualify ? hum ... Also seeing at least one of Neeb, Astrea or Scarlett getting booted out instead of all the three being almost guaranteed to go to Krefeld sounds more exciting, and anyway is merely mirroring the number of seeded NA slots for Valencia. I also don't like too much why so few players from NA play in the Open Cups or similar events, which I suspect is part of the why behind Take's and hpjalpha's arguments.
The wider disagreement also has to do with the divide between those wanting to focus the slot allocation purely on merit/MMR/insert coin wise vs region fans who want more for those they support (anything outside Korea, Invites and EU). None side is either more right or wrong than the other but the organizer made his choice and it's final.
EDIT : Specific tidbit about Scarlett, being able to score a lot of points in WTL has been balanced with getting beaten 0-2 by Nina and getting 0-5 in IEM, even playing the national lotto is less random than that.
Is your 2nd paragraph implying that qualifiers based on merit would only have Korea and EU? Scarlett has better results historically and on aligulac even while slumping is above several EU players who are going to get to go.
Also 3/13 vs 12/51 is basically the same percent. 12/51 is actually higher so lol at that "point".
On June 15 2022 09:24 argonautdice wrote: Kind of surprised NA only gets 2 region-locked spots out of 32, while EU basically gets 14.
The low attendance of the qualifier invalidates the merit of asking for a third NA slot, and that would also means that out of 13 players, 25 percent of them should qualify ? hum ... Also seeing at least one of Neeb, Astrea or Scarlett getting booted out instead of all the three being almost guaranteed to go to Krefeld sounds more exciting, and anyway is merely mirroring the number of seeded NA slots for Valencia. I also don't like too much why so few players from NA play in the Open Cups or similar events, which I suspect is part of the why behind Take's and hpjalpha's arguments.
The wider disagreement also has to do with the divide between those wanting to focus the slot allocation purely on merit/MMR/insert coin wise vs region fans who want more for those they support (anything outside Korea, Invites and EU). None side is either more right or wrong than the other but the organizer made his choice and it's final.
EDIT : Specific tidbit about Scarlett, being able to score a lot of points in WTL has been balanced with getting beaten 0-2 by Nina and getting 0-5 in IEM, even playing the national lotto is less random than that.
While the actual signing up should impact the number of slot, like in this case KR getting 12 slots are too many considering about half of the top players are missing due to travel limitation (Rogue, Trap, Zest) or lack of interest (Dark, Cure), I find the reason to limit the slot because the region has less players active are purely comical. So you find its "more exciting" for have Neeb-Astrea-Scarlett to eliminate each other but its perfectly un-exciting to see EU players fighting it out for the qualifying spots? The "mirroring number of seed in to DH" reason is even more laughable, because from the original 16 spots to DH into 32 spots to HSC, the additional 16 spots are allocated as 2 invitation - 6 KR - and a whooping 8 for EU. So its fine for NA and other regions to stay the same, but its critical that EU get 8 more, right? Again, if "participation attitude" being a criteria for the number of qualifying spots, then EU should get 12 more spots, because I am seeing EU playesr are always super active, while the other region, KR included, are "lazy bum" comparatively. And I understand the that everything are based on the organizer decision, so it is what it is, but your reasoning is making me laugh real hard. And while I am not a fan of Scarlett myself, I just dont understand why people acting like shes isnt "top 12 EU" good. Shes 0-5 in IEM because that was an absolutely fucking tough group. So you think whoever your top 12 EU player is, they can go into that group and beat any of Reynor-Maru-Clem-Zoun-Byun? Like really? As for being 0-2 by Nina, I am pretty sure Nina or whoever the 3rd best player in NA is, can 2-0 a rank 11-12 EU player, given it Rattata, Spirit or even Skillous. I just dont see the difference in level to definitely see that ALL top 12 EU player is convincingly better than the 3rd best player in NA. Thats all.
On June 15 2022 09:24 argonautdice wrote: Kind of surprised NA only gets 2 region-locked spots out of 32, while EU basically gets 14.
The low attendance of the qualifier invalidates the merit of asking for a third NA slot, and that would also means that out of 13 players, 25 percent of them should qualify ? hum ... Also seeing at least one of Neeb, Astrea or Scarlett getting booted out instead of all the three being almost guaranteed to go to Krefeld sounds more exciting, and anyway is merely mirroring the number of seeded NA slots for Valencia. I also don't like too much why so few players from NA play in the Open Cups or similar events, which I suspect is part of the why behind Take's and hpjalpha's arguments.
The wider disagreement also has to do with the divide between those wanting to focus the slot allocation purely on merit/MMR/insert coin wise vs region fans who want more for those they support (anything outside Korea, Invites and EU). None side is either more right or wrong than the other but the organizer made his choice and it's final.
EDIT : Specific tidbit about Scarlett, being able to score a lot of points in WTL has been balanced with getting beaten 0-2 by Nina and getting 0-5 in IEM, even playing the national lotto is less random than that.
Is your 2nd paragraph implying that qualifiers based on merit would only have Korea and EU? Scarlett has better results historically and on aligulac even while slumping is above several EU players who are going to get to go.
Also 3/13 vs 12/51 is basically the same percent. 12/51 is actually higher so lol at that "point".
One player can't always bank on previous match history to get away with more opportunites than deserved if recent results are more than varied.
IEM 2021 : 33-36th IEM 2022 : finishing second in the DH NA rankings but not winning a single series DH NA 2023 : beaten by Astrea
IEM Pyeongchang is a long time ago. 12/51 based on higher attendance is more justified at least than 3/13 when more players could have attended NA, but you see it as a non-point.
On June 15 2022 09:24 argonautdice wrote: Kind of surprised NA only gets 2 region-locked spots out of 32, while EU basically gets 14.
The low attendance of the qualifier invalidates the merit of asking for a third NA slot, and that would also means that out of 13 players, 25 percent of them should qualify ? hum ... Also seeing at least one of Neeb, Astrea or Scarlett getting booted out instead of all the three being almost guaranteed to go to Krefeld sounds more exciting, and anyway is merely mirroring the number of seeded NA slots for Valencia. I also don't like too much why so few players from NA play in the Open Cups or similar events, which I suspect is part of the why behind Take's and hpjalpha's arguments.
The wider disagreement also has to do with the divide between those wanting to focus the slot allocation purely on merit/MMR/insert coin wise vs region fans who want more for those they support (anything outside Korea, Invites and EU). None side is either more right or wrong than the other but the organizer made his choice and it's final.
EDIT : Specific tidbit about Scarlett, being able to score a lot of points in WTL has been balanced with getting beaten 0-2 by Nina and getting 0-5 in IEM, even playing the national lotto is less random than that.
Is your 2nd paragraph implying that qualifiers based on merit would only have Korea and EU? Scarlett has better results historically and on aligulac even while slumping is above several EU players who are going to get to go.
Also 3/13 vs 12/51 is basically the same percent. 12/51 is actually higher so lol at that "point".
One player can't always bank on previous match history to get away with more opportunites than deserved if recent results are more than varied.
IEM 2021 : 33-36th IEM 2022 : finishing second in the DH NA rankings but not winning a single series DH NA 2023 : beaten by Astrea
IEM Pyeongchang is a long time ago. 12/51 based on higher attendance is more justified at least than 3/13 when more players could have attended NA, but you see it as a non-point.
Agree to disagree.
Did the 7th-14th best EU players do any better at those events? The answers no so it's irrelevant because this discussion is if all of the EU top 15 (because Maxpax isn't going) is better than Scarlett which is completely ridiculous. She is like 10+ spots ahead of the 15th best EU player on aligulac and ahead of around 5 players (depending on final qual results) that are going to get to go.
On June 15 2022 09:24 argonautdice wrote: Kind of surprised NA only gets 2 region-locked spots out of 32, while EU basically gets 14.
The low attendance of the qualifier invalidates the merit of asking for a third NA slot, and that would also means that out of 13 players, 25 percent of them should qualify ? hum ... Also seeing at least one of Neeb, Astrea or Scarlett getting booted out instead of all the three being almost guaranteed to go to Krefeld sounds more exciting, and anyway is merely mirroring the number of seeded NA slots for Valencia. I also don't like too much why so few players from NA play in the Open Cups or similar events, which I suspect is part of the why behind Take's and hpjalpha's arguments.
The wider disagreement also has to do with the divide between those wanting to focus the slot allocation purely on merit/MMR/insert coin wise vs region fans who want more for those they support (anything outside Korea, Invites and EU). None side is either more right or wrong than the other but the organizer made his choice and it's final.
EDIT : Specific tidbit about Scarlett, being able to score a lot of points in WTL has been balanced with getting beaten 0-2 by Nina and getting 0-5 in IEM, even playing the national lotto is less random than that.
Is your 2nd paragraph implying that qualifiers based on merit would only have Korea and EU? Scarlett has better results historically and on aligulac even while slumping is above several EU players who are going to get to go.
Also 3/13 vs 12/51 is basically the same percent. 12/51 is actually higher so lol at that "point".
One player can't always bank on previous match history to get away with more opportunites than deserved if recent results are more than varied.
IEM 2021 : 33-36th IEM 2022 : finishing second in the DH NA rankings but not winning a single series DH NA 2023 : beaten by Astrea
IEM Pyeongchang is a long time ago. 12/51 based on higher attendance is more justified at least than 3/13 when more players could have attended NA, but you see it as a non-point.
Agree to disagree.
Did the 7th-14th best EU players do any better at those events? The answers no so it's irrelevant because this discussion is if all of the EU top 15 (because Maxpax isn't going) is better than Scarlett which is completely ridiculous. She is like 10+ spots ahead of the 15th best EU player on aligulac and ahead of around 5 players (depending on final qual results) that are going to get to go.
Well even with a 3rd spot for NA she lost in upper and lower so she wouldn't be in anyways.
On June 15 2022 09:24 argonautdice wrote: Kind of surprised NA only gets 2 region-locked spots out of 32, while EU basically gets 14.
The low attendance of the qualifier invalidates the merit of asking for a third NA slot, and that would also means that out of 13 players, 25 percent of them should qualify ? hum ... Also seeing at least one of Neeb, Astrea or Scarlett getting booted out instead of all the three being almost guaranteed to go to Krefeld sounds more exciting, and anyway is merely mirroring the number of seeded NA slots for Valencia. I also don't like too much why so few players from NA play in the Open Cups or similar events, which I suspect is part of the why behind Take's and hpjalpha's arguments.
The wider disagreement also has to do with the divide between those wanting to focus the slot allocation purely on merit/MMR/insert coin wise vs region fans who want more for those they support (anything outside Korea, Invites and EU). None side is either more right or wrong than the other but the organizer made his choice and it's final.
EDIT : Specific tidbit about Scarlett, being able to score a lot of points in WTL has been balanced with getting beaten 0-2 by Nina and getting 0-5 in IEM, even playing the national lotto is less random than that.
While the actual signing up should impact the number of slot, like in this case KR getting 12 slots are too many considering about half of the top players are missing due to travel limitation (Rogue, Trap, Zest) or lack of interest (Dark, Cure), I find the reason to limit the slot because the region has less players active are purely comical. So you find its "more exciting" for have Neeb-Astrea-Scarlett to eliminate each other but its perfectly un-exciting to see EU players fighting it out for the qualifying spots? The "mirroring number of seed in to DH" reason is even more laughable, because from the original 16 spots to DH into 32 spots to HSC, the additional 16 spots are allocated as 2 invitation - 6 KR - and a whooping 8 for EU. So its fine for NA and other regions to stay the same, but its critical that EU get 8 more, right? Again, if "participation attitude" being a criteria for the number of qualifying spots, then EU should get 12 more spots, because I am seeing EU playesr are always super active, while the other region, KR included, are "lazy bum" comparatively. And I understand the that everything are based on the organizer decision, so it is what it is, but your reasoning is making me laugh real hard. And while I am not a fan of Scarlett myself, I just dont understand why people acting like shes isnt "top 12 EU" good. Shes 0-5 in IEM because that was an absolutely fucking tough group. So you think whoever your top 12 EU player is, they can go into that group and beat any of Reynor-Maru-Clem-Zoun-Byun? Like really? As for being 0-2 by Nina, I am pretty sure Nina or whoever the 3rd best player in NA is, can 2-0 a rank 11-12 EU player, given it Rattata, Spirit or even Skillous. I just dont see the difference in level to definitely see that ALL top 12 EU player is convincingly better than the 3rd best player in NA. Thats all.
She should definitely have taken more maps than just a single one, no matter how tough the group was. Not sure at face value her own run was tougher than for anyone else in the other groups. So quoting that argument isn't completely valid either. If Scarlett showed she can be as good from day 1 to day 365 instead of seeing her results going from zero to perfect and vice-versa, part of the debate wouldn't even be there, and she's pointed out for that more than many others based on her previous/current standing on the circuit.
At least, part of the Koreans who don't sign up for smaller events make up for showing up when needed and many of the other ones sign up for the small ones under OSC's purview. Many EU players grind like hell whenever possible. But from NA, why I always see the same few players taking the risk but the others don't ?
If there were more players on NA being more active, regardless of the level there would be more justification is asking for more slots. But for players like DisK or TriGGeR who are promising up-and-comers, where went Future ? He had a promising 2020-2021 but then completely disappeared and only now re-entered top 8.
You don't like some of the arguments that are thrown there but they are still there like it or not, but I at least don't disagree that the number of slots can be disproportionate. And the organizer is certainly more stingy than I am because I didn't throw the " 12th ranked EU is better than Scarlett " easy one.
On June 16 2022 02:34 JJH777 wrote:
Did the 7th-14th best EU players do any better at those events? The answers no so it's irrelevant because this discussion is if all of the EU top 15 (because Maxpax isn't going) is better than Scarlett which is completely ridiculous. She is like 10+ spots ahead of the 15th best EU player on aligulac and ahead of around 5 players (depending on final qual results) that are going to get to go.
Spirit won two more maps and one more series than her while he was technically not even qualified to go there and did it only because several players in front of him were unable or didn't want to go for various reasons. Aligulac isn't a complete reflection of how good a player as not taking account of the tier of an event either (and it shouldn't).
In any case, in the end everybody wants to defend their local bacon and it's only fair. Some (on other topics) just go the toxic way about it and that's what I dislike about the whole thing.
On June 15 2022 09:24 argonautdice wrote: Kind of surprised NA only gets 2 region-locked spots out of 32, while EU basically gets 14.
I'd agree, it feels like they're going to be scraping the bottom of the barrel on the last qualifier.
From the top of my head eu still has
Harstem
Rattata
PtitDrogo
MaNa
DnS
plus probably some more for the 3rd Qualifier who i would put skill wise above trigger who just barely did not make it in the NA Qualifier.
So imo giving more slots to NA would be wasted.
You're just listing the bottom of the barrel. I mean, forget NA, they should be bringing in Prince and NightMare if this is the bar for quality.
To be fair, given the current sign up list for the last KR qualifier, Nightmare and Prince could make it if they sign up, so far we only have Maru Ryung Gumiho and Armani, and Nightmare actually signed up.
On June 16 2022 11:35 argonautdice wrote: Also are the prize pool info available for this event yet (it's not on Liquipedia)? That may factor into whether non-European players sign up for it.
If anything btw I would argue that Korean slots are too many with 12. They do have the players but they have some players that are not interested and nowadays unfortunately a lot that cannot travel.
On June 16 2022 11:35 argonautdice wrote: Also are the prize pool info available for this event yet (it's not on Liquipedia)? That may factor into whether non-European players sign up for it.
Why would it be relevant with fully paid travel?
Because even if it's fully paid for, I wouldn't travel that far to compete in a prize pool of $400 dollars if that's the top prize. I know it's probably way more than that, but a small prize pool does not give enough incentives to go through all the trouble of travelling. Add on to that fact is that it's only for 4 days and also only gives out 275 ESL points for the top prize, the travel "costs" add up.
On June 16 2022 11:35 argonautdice wrote: Also are the prize pool info available for this event yet (it's not on Liquipedia)? That may factor into whether non-European players sign up for it.
Why would it be relevant with fully paid travel?
Because even if it's fully paid for, I wouldn't travel that far to compete in a prize pool of $400 dollars if that's the top prize. I know it's probably way more than that, but a small prize pool does not give enough incentives to go through all the trouble of travelling. Add on to that fact is that it's only for 4 days and also only gives out 275 ESL points for the top prize, the travel "costs" add up.
players get free drinks at hsc. plus germany+dutch have legalized gambling
On June 16 2022 11:35 argonautdice wrote: Also are the prize pool info available for this event yet (it's not on Liquipedia)? That may factor into whether non-European players sign up for it.
Why would it be relevant with fully paid travel?
Because even if it's fully paid for, I wouldn't travel that far to compete in a prize pool of $400 dollars if that's the top prize. I know it's probably way more than that, but a small prize pool does not give enough incentives to go through all the trouble of travelling. Add on to that fact is that it's only for 4 days and also only gives out 275 ESL points for the top prize, the travel "costs" add up.
I bet most Players travelling to HSC Don t go there only for the money but for the experience as well HSC has been so much more than just the competition.
I compete in non esport. We Don t have any price money At all. Instead of I want to go to an European or world championship, I habe to pay everything out of my own pocket. Same for everyone else (apart from a few pros from China, where my Sport is way way bigger) Still there are lots of participants. It s not all about pricepool
On June 16 2022 11:35 argonautdice wrote: Also are the prize pool info available for this event yet (it's not on Liquipedia)? That may factor into whether non-European players sign up for it.
Why would it be relevant with fully paid travel?
Because even if it's fully paid for, I wouldn't travel that far to compete in a prize pool of $400 dollars if that's the top prize. I know it's probably way more than that, but a small prize pool does not give enough incentives to go through all the trouble of travelling. Add on to that fact is that it's only for 4 days and also only gives out 275 ESL points for the top prize, the travel "costs" add up.
I bet most Players travelling to HSC Don t go there only for the money but for the experience as well HSC has been so much more than just the competition.
I compete in non esport. We Don t have any price money At all. Instead of I want to go to an European or world championship, I habe to pay everything out of my own pocket. Same for everyone else (apart from a few pros from China, where my Sport is way way bigger) Still there are lots of participants. It s not all about pricepool
Oh, I'm not disagreeing with that at all. HSC is popular amongst the EU players because of the experience and the fun of being together. All I'm saying is that not everyone (esp the KR players) has the same priorities and travelling halfway around the world only to stay for 4 days is not "easy". Add on to the fact that they very possibly have a bunch of COVID protocols upon returning to Korea, the motivation to want to go to HSC is not as high esp if the prize pool is a small one and also that they prob have just travelled to Dreamhack Valencia.
On June 17 2022 20:13 dbRic1203 wrote: No Maru in HSC qualifier No 3 So his Team saying he would try to qualify for every event with EPT points was a lie. Not realy unexpected but still sad
Tried my best. I did write CranK, Bunny, Rogue to contact him since I dont have him anywhere but yea.. sad
On June 17 2022 20:13 dbRic1203 wrote: No Maru in HSC qualifier No 3 So his Team saying he would try to qualify for every event with EPT points was a lie. Not realy unexpected but still sad
Tried my best. I did write CranK, Bunny, Rogue to contact him since I dont have him anywhere but yea.. sad
lol, the man just dust us fans 3 times in a roll, thats some level of troling. Yeah, I guess he wasnt sold in experience and beer fest thing in Europe. Btw, the HSC are going to be smashed in the middle of GSL S2? You run from Jul 19 to 25, the Ro4 GSL is on Jul 21?
On June 17 2022 20:13 dbRic1203 wrote: No Maru in HSC qualifier No 3 So his Team saying he would try to qualify for every event with EPT points was a lie. Not realy unexpected but still sad
Tried my best. I did write CranK, Bunny, Rogue to contact him since I dont have him anywhere but yea.. sad
Nothing more you could do, all good
Thanks for trying There's nothing to do if the man just doesn't want to do it, HSC will be great anyway!
On June 17 2022 20:23 tigera6 wrote: lol, the man just dust us fans 3 times in a roll, thats some level of troling. Yeah, I guess he wasnt sold in experience and beer fest thing in Europe. Btw, the HSC are going to be smashed in the middle of GSL S2? You run from Jul 19 to 25, the Ro4 GSL is on Jul 21?
KR qualifier list still looks pretty solid to me surprisingly despite no Dark/Rogue/Maru/Trap/Cure/Zest. In any type of team match I would definitely bet on them over the 12 EU players that came through the qualifiers.
I lurk here from time to time and find what I see here baffling enough to comment. As organizer of a sports event, TakeTV should not be making unsportsman-like remarks (veiled or direct) towards players. It's bad form. In this case, Scarlett was targeted multiple times and to a lesser extent players outside of the EU region. Even if he thinks his assessment is correct (which some here disputed), it's still comes off as unprofessional.
I am not familiar enough with this community to know if things are always like this, but I suggest treating stepping into other people's shoes when making your comments
i don't feel super confident saying Scarlett is CLEARLY better than those guys, for example.
Serral - Scarlett is worse Lambo - Scarlett is worse Reynor - Scarlett is worse Showtime - Scarlett is worse Elazer - Scarlett is worse Clem - Scarlett is worse Harstem - on current meta PvZ I believe Harstem is better Heromarine - Scarlett is worse Maxpax - Scarlett is worse Rattata - Scarlett is even, potentially better depending on her form Spirit - Scarlett is worse but I think Spirit is shaky in performance sometimes Skillous - SKillous current form is also better than Scarlett ZvP
Other regions have some decent talent , especially TW/HK but no one that would be straight better than EU.
Please be aware I could have easily cut more slots and added more EU and still chose not to.
I lurk here from time to time and find what I see here baffling enough to comment. As organizer of a sports event, TakeTV should not be making unsportsman-like remarks (veiled or direct) towards players. It's bad form. In this case, Scarlett was targeted multiple times and to a lesser extent players outside of the EU region. Even if he thinks his assessment is correct (which some here disputed), it's still comes off as unprofessional.
I am not familiar enough with this community to know if things are always like this, but I suggest treating stepping into other people's shoes when making your comments
Serral - Scarlett is worse Lambo - Scarlett is worse Reynor - Scarlett is worse Showtime - Scarlett is worse Elazer - Scarlett is worse Clem - Scarlett is worse Harstem - on current meta PvZ I believe Harstem is better Heromarine - Scarlett is worse Maxpax - Scarlett is worse Rattata - Scarlett is even, potentially better depending on her form Spirit - Scarlett is worse but I think Spirit is shaky in performance sometimes Skillous - SKillous current form is also better than Scarlett ZvP
Please be aware I could have easily cut more slots and added more EU and still chose not to.
While I disagree with Narutos assessment of Scarlett and think EU is overhyped and preferred too much, your post is unnecessary. Its their event, its an EU event, and last time I checked we are living in a free democratic world with freedom of choice and speech. Nothing wrong with Take/Naruto stating their opinions and imposing their own rules to the event they are organizing. So you may not like it, but you are in no position to suggest or demand anything from them, or this community for that matter.
I lurk here from time to time and find what I see here baffling enough to comment. As organizer of a sports event, TakeTV should not be making unsportsman-like remarks (veiled or direct) towards players. It's bad form. In this case, Scarlett was targeted multiple times and to a lesser extent players outside of the EU region. Even if he thinks his assessment is correct (which some here disputed), it's still comes off as unprofessional.
I am not familiar enough with this community to know if things are always like this, but I suggest treating stepping into other people's shoes when making your comments
Serral - Scarlett is worse Lambo - Scarlett is worse Reynor - Scarlett is worse Showtime - Scarlett is worse Elazer - Scarlett is worse Clem - Scarlett is worse Harstem - on current meta PvZ I believe Harstem is better Heromarine - Scarlett is worse Maxpax - Scarlett is worse Rattata - Scarlett is even, potentially better depending on her form Spirit - Scarlett is worse but I think Spirit is shaky in performance sometimes Skillous - SKillous current form is also better than Scarlett ZvP
Please be aware I could have easily cut more slots and added more EU and still chose not to.
If you Don t like the event, you Don t have to watch it Even better, you can create your own event and make the rule, you think are the best/ fairest/ most entertaining. You Don t have to like absolutly every event. That s totally fine. But bashing an organiser, Who puts lots of time and money into the scene just feels wrong
I for example Don t realy like the direction NW is going with the format (and with NFTs) So I m just not watching it and hope, they come up with a different Version next time. Still contributed to their Crowdfunding thing though, because it has been amazing the last time pre corona
I lurk here from time to time and find what I see here baffling enough to comment. As organizer of a sports event, TakeTV should not be making unsportsman-like remarks (veiled or direct) towards players. It's bad form. In this case, Scarlett was targeted multiple times and to a lesser extent players outside of the EU region. Even if he thinks his assessment is correct (which some here disputed), it's still comes off as unprofessional.
I am not familiar enough with this community to know if things are always like this, but I suggest treating stepping into other people's shoes when making your comments
Serral - Scarlett is worse Lambo - Scarlett is worse Reynor - Scarlett is worse Showtime - Scarlett is worse Elazer - Scarlett is worse Clem - Scarlett is worse Harstem - on current meta PvZ I believe Harstem is better Heromarine - Scarlett is worse Maxpax - Scarlett is worse Rattata - Scarlett is even, potentially better depending on her form Spirit - Scarlett is worse but I think Spirit is shaky in performance sometimes Skillous - SKillous current form is also better than Scarlett ZvP
Please be aware I could have easily cut more slots and added more EU and still chose not to.
Hello, I usually post as TaKeTV since I use it to attach myself to events with this working account. I usually end with " - NarutO" since it represents my personal opinion. I am a professional caster just as long as Scarlett is a professional player. I have huge respects for her and for her achievements but I don't think being a professional in this working space should leave me without the right to personally adress things people bring up.
I could choose to simply leave all the comments be and not adress them or express my opinion. Be it 2 - slot North America or other topics. If you want any reference check NBA half-time shows and other professional sports. I have not targeted Scarlett - I answered to a post that said Scarlett was in fact way above the level of even most top 10 in Europe. I am a member of this community as well and besides the fact I could have use NarutO over TaKeTV (sometimes I just miss it) I don't think there is anythong wrong with having an opinion - a professional one as well.
Scarlett is a player that has an incredible range. She can more or less beat anyone on her good days but she is also very capable of having losses that she shouldn't have looking at her level. This was an discussion if NA deserves more spots in this competition comparing to other regions in general but mainly Europe.
Since you are new I can tell you that we are 'new' to the ESL Pro Tour circuit which kind of requires us to have more qualification slots - in every region. Beforehand this tournament was invite only (with very little exception) . For example I personally wouldn't invite a player from the OCE/ROA region (and never have). This isn't unprofessional but a result of their player base being weaker than the competition.
In the past I have invited (iirc) Neeb and Scarlett most of the time and often the offer was turned down. With Astrea being a bit "newer" to the absolute top level I still believe that 2 spots in NA is a pretty fair estimate. Running tournamants - especially in a new environment like EPT (for us) always is a learning process as well.
With the travel restriction and a lot of retirements in Korea I would be a lot more interested in giving NA another slot and take this slot from Korea. I don't see taking the spots away from Europe. If you want to look at the NA qualifier , Scarlett lost to Nina. I think Nina is a very good player but this thread made very clear that "Scarlett is an absolute guaranteed qualified player". She would not have made it even if I put up 3 spots.
I also want to mention that ( in case you think this is something personal towards Scarlett) I contacted TLO to remind her of the qualifier in case she didn't see it or might forget it since she lives in Korea (and has a very different time zone). I reminded A LOT of NA players via twitter or via twitch and asked them if they wanted to participate.
I do not hold a grudge against any player and I welcome anyone who can qualify and bring a good level to HSC but I don't think you would call Shaquille O'neal or Kenny Smith unprofessional if they mentioned that the Miami Heat didn't bring the righ spirit to several playoff games or an individual player had a bad performance.
Last but not least I will say: If I didn't run 30 qualification spots but rather had an invite all tournament the players would look drastically different and I would have loved to invite Neeb, Scarlett, Astrea and potentially either DisK (can't play) or trigger. With qualifiers I rather stick to a very top - heavy composition.
In any case I appreciate your feedback and will be more careful about writing with this account or end with (like I will do now)
- NarutO
Edit: Just to clear up I obviously don't want to say I am Shaq or Kenny , but those came to mind that are often critical in half time shows as professionals ^^ I do have to cast the TW/HK qualifier now but if people care I can create a list of players I would have invited to give a comparison to the qualified lineup
Top of my head: (no particular order, just so I now when i reach 32)
1. Serral 2. Reynor 3. Clem 4. Lambo 5. HeroMarine 6. ShoWTimE 7. Harstem 8. SKillous 9. Spirit 10. Neeb 11. Astrea 12. Scarlett 13. SpeCial 14. Kelazhur 15. TIME 16. Maru 17. GuMiHo 18. Creator 19. Solar 20. Dream 21. soO 22. Bunny 23. ByuN 24. herO 25. DRG 26. Zoun 27. Classic 28 .Elazer 29. DnS 30. PtitDrogo 31. MaNa 32. Rattata (I actually feel Gerald might be better rn but I sometimes have to consider race too)
9 Z 11 T 12 P
Then there are still players left you can argue about.
Trigger, DisK, Nina, Gerald, GungFuBanda, Krystianer, goblin, Bly, Milkicow, Strange, Future... But those are all very tough calls and you can never satisfy everyone. Its a learning process and I don't think my statements are unsportsmanship at all.
I lurk here from time to time and find what I see here baffling enough to comment. As organizer of a sports event, TakeTV should not be making unsportsman-like remarks (veiled or direct) towards players. It's bad form. In this case, Scarlett was targeted multiple times and to a lesser extent players outside of the EU region. Even if he thinks his assessment is correct (which some here disputed), it's still comes off as unprofessional.
I am not familiar enough with this community to know if things are always like this, but I suggest treating stepping into other people's shoes when making your comments
i don't feel super confident saying Scarlett is CLEARLY better than those guys, for example.
Serral - Scarlett is worse Lambo - Scarlett is worse Reynor - Scarlett is worse Showtime - Scarlett is worse Elazer - Scarlett is worse Clem - Scarlett is worse Harstem - on current meta PvZ I believe Harstem is better Heromarine - Scarlett is worse Maxpax - Scarlett is worse Rattata - Scarlett is even, potentially better depending on her form Spirit - Scarlett is worse but I think Spirit is shaky in performance sometimes Skillous - SKillous current form is also better than Scarlett ZvP
Other regions have some decent talent , especially TW/HK but no one that would be straight better than EU.
Please be aware I could have easily cut more slots and added more EU and still chose not to.
Hello, I usually post as TaKeTV since I use it to attach myself to events with this working account. I usually end with " - NarutO" since it represents my personal opinion. I am a professional caster just as long as Scarlett is a professional player. I have huge respects for her and for her achievements but I don't think being a professional in this working space should leave me without the right to personally adress things people bring up.
I could choose to simply leave all the comments be and not adress them or express my opinion. Be it 2 - slot North America or other topics. If you want any reference check NBA half-time shows and other professional sports. I have not targeted Scarlett - I answered to a post that said Scarlett was in fact way above the level of even most top 10 in Europe. I am a member of this community as well and besides the fact I could have use NarutO over TaKeTV (sometimes I just miss it) I don't think there is anythong wrong with having an opinion - a professional one as well.
Scarlett is a player that has an incredible range. She can more or less beat anyone on her good days but she is also very capable of having losses that she shouldn't have looking at her level. This was an discussion if NA deserves more spots in this competition comparing to other regions in general but mainly Europe.
Since you are new I can tell you that we are 'new' to the ESL Pro Tour circuit which kind of requires us to have more qualification slots - in every region. Beforehand this tournament was invite only (with very little exception) . For example I personally wouldn't invite a player from the OCE/ROA region (and never have). This isn't unprofessional but a result of their player base being weaker than the competition.
In the past I have invited (iirc) Neeb and Scarlett most of the time and often the offer was turned down. With Astrea being a bit "newer" to the absolute top level I still believe that 2 spots in NA is a pretty fair estimate. Running tournamants - especially in a new environment like EPT (for us) always is a learning process as well.
With the travel restriction and a lot of retirements in Korea I would be a lot more interested in giving NA another slot and take this slot from Korea. I don't see taking the spots away from Europe. If you want to look at the NA qualifier , Scarlett lost to Nina. I think Nina is a very good player but this thread made very clear that "Scarlett is an absolute guaranteed qualified player". She would not have made it even if I put up 3 spots.
I also want to mention that ( in case you think this is something personal towards Scarlett) I contacted TLO to remind her of the qualifier in case she didn't see it or might forget it since she lives in Korea (and has a very different time zone). I reminded A LOT of NA players via twitter or via twitch and asked them if they wanted to participate.
I do not hold a grudge against any player and I welcome anyone who can qualify and bring a good level to HSC but I don't think you would call Shaquille O'neal or Kenny Smith unprofessional if they mentioned that the Miami Heat didn't bring the righ spirit to several playoff games or an individual player had a bad performance.
Last but not least I will say: If I didn't run 30 qualification spots but rather had an invite all tournament the players would look drastically different and I would have loved to invite Neeb, Scarlett, Astrea and potentially either DisK (can't play) or trigger. With qualifiers I rather stick to a very top - heavy composition.
In any case I appreciate your feedback and will be more careful about writing with this account or end with (like I will do now)
- NarutO
Edit: Just to clear up I obviously don't want to say I am Shaq or Kenny , but those came to mind that are often critical in half time shows as professionals ^^ I do have to cast the TW/HK qualifier now but if people care I can create a list of players I would have invited to give a comparison to the qualified lineup
Top of my head: (no particular order, just so I now when i reach 32)
1. Serral 2. Reynor 3. Clem 4. Lambo 5. HeroMarine 6. ShoWTimE 7. Harstem 8. SKillous 9. Spirit 10. Neeb 11. Astrea 12. Scarlett 13. SpeCial 14. Kelazhur 15. TIME 16. Maru 17. GuMiHo 18. Creator 19. Solar 20. Dream 21. soO 22. Bunny 23. ByuN 24. herO 25. DRG 26. Zoun 27. Classic 28 .Elazer 29. DnS 30. PtitDrogo 31. MaNa 32. Rattata (I actually feel Gerald might be better rn but I sometimes have to consider race too)
9 Z 11 T 12 P
Then there are still players left you can argue about.
Trigger, DisK, Nina, Gerald, GungFuBanda, Krystianer, goblin, Bly, Milkicow, Strange, Future... But those are all very tough calls and you can never satisfy everyone. Its a learning process and I don't think my statements are unsportsmanship at all.
That would ve been: KR: 12 (+0) Eu: 14 (+0) NA: 3 (+1) LA: 2 (+1) CH: 1 (+0) TW: 0 (-1) RoA: 0 (-1) Compared with the representation of the Regions we got now
Players that would have gotten the invite and didn t qualify would have been: Maru, Gumiho, Dream, Scarlett, Special, Time (ignoring EU, because there still is a qualifier)
Players that qualified and would not gotten an invite are: Nightmare, Ragnarok, Armani, Gerald, Cyan, one TW Player (most likely Nice) and one RoA player
TIME cannot leave CN (too troublesome) Maru has a reason too that I cannot share Dream seemingly thought Europe was too far away when I asked him SpeCial has an appointment conflict with HSC
Hello, I usually post as TaKeTV since I use it to attach myself to events with this working account. I usually end with " - NarutO" since it represents my personal opinion. I am a professional caster just as long as Scarlett is a professional player. I have huge respects for her and for her achievements but I don't think being a professional in this working space should leave me without the right to personally adress things people bring up.
Thanks for the response.
The debate on whether or not Scarlett is good or off or bad is not interesting, so let's not get too tied up with that. It's also not that important if Europeans get more slots because reasons.
The problem here are the remarks being made while you serve as a host. Hosts of sports events usually come with some social etiquette to follow, such as sportsmanship conduct and being respectful of guests. What you said here was that European guests are cool and that those from other regions are simply not as cool as them. And then that one guest who lost the qualifiers got singled out and dissected for why she's not as cool as each and every single one of the cool guests. While all of that is something you are free to say, what's free to say is not necessarily decent.
Now, I am sure you are just passionate guy who didn't meant to be disrespectful and that this is simply a careless slip. Good luck with the event.
But bashing an organiser, Who puts lots of time and money into the scene just feels wrong
Hello, I usually post as TaKeTV since I use it to attach myself to events with this working account. I usually end with " - NarutO" since it represents my personal opinion. I am a professional caster just as long as Scarlett is a professional player. I have huge respects for her and for her achievements but I don't think being a professional in this working space should leave me without the right to personally adress things people bring up.
Hosts of sports events usually come with some social etiquette to follow, such as sportsmanship conduct and being respectful of guests. What you said here was that European guests are cool and that those from other regions are simply not as cool as them. And then that one guest who lost the qualifiers got singled out and dissected for why she's not as cool as each and every single one of the cool guests.
I am not sure where you read this? If anything my posts should have made clear that I am more than happy to have Scarlett around thus inviting her to NEARLY every edition of HSC. She is or has been outside of her skill a persona that is what we love at HSC. She is knowledgable as caster and fun with other players.
So I don't really see how I singled her out and made her out to not be cool. I adressed a post that took SC2 skill / current form into consideration and made out Scarlett as top 10 within EU easily. I personally disagree with this matter and while I run tournament organisation for HSC I don't see how this is either disrespectful nor unsportsmanship and in the very least attacking someone "to not be cool".
And if you would want to go that far I believe its fair to say some players are "cooler" than others for an event like HomeStoryCup. I'll just throw in Harstem who is insanely loved by the community and its probably fair to say he is one of the most wanted players at the event.
In any case, I accepted your first feedback and explained myself and I'll draw the line here where someone simply assumes what I said instead of actually quoting what I said and disagree with the statement I called out someone as "not cool" or giving the impression I didn't like a particular player.
All I did was answer to why NA gets 2 slots over 3 slots and the post about Scarlett vs Top 10 EU.
You guys are literally just arguing over which players are better when that's only half the argument.
Did we just forget about regional growth? Does it not matter anymore now that EU players have had region lock benefit them? We can just forget about the rest of the regions right?
OCE/TW/CHINA/LAM aren't going to improve if they're given no opportunities to play in events and no potential of making a career out of pro gaming.
ESL may as well be called European Simp League. Oh no, the shock, the horror, lesser skilled regions were given 1 qualifier slot to a premier tournament!
On June 23 2022 15:55 DIVINE_PEZZ wrote: You guys are literally just arguing over which players are better when that's only half the argument.
Did we just forget about regional growth? Does it not matter anymore now that EU players have had region lock benefit them? We can just forget about the rest of the regions right?
OCE/TW/CHINA/LAM aren't going to improve if they're given no opportunities to play in events and no potential of making a career out of pro gaming.
ESL may as well be called European Simp League. Oh no, the shock, the horror, lesser skilled regions were given 1 qualifier slot to a premier tournament!
Problem is the other regions are NOT growing Especially OCE feels like a wasteland whenever there is no DH Regional going on. No one even bothers to Play in any of the weekly Cups, it s only the Europeans, Koreans and a few NA/LA players in there. Every other month or so also Nice or Time. But I can t recall a Single weekly with a Single Oce Player in there. Feel free to prove me wrong.
On June 23 2022 15:55 DIVINE_PEZZ wrote: You guys are literally just arguing over which players are better when that's only half the argument.
Did we just forget about regional growth? Does it not matter anymore now that EU players have had region lock benefit them? We can just forget about the rest of the regions right?
OCE/TW/CHINA/LAM aren't going to improve if they're given no opportunities to play in events and no potential of making a career out of pro gaming.
ESL may as well be called European Simp League. Oh no, the shock, the horror, lesser skilled regions were given 1 qualifier slot to a premier tournament!
Fwiw i wasn't a fan of region lock either. But the other foreign regions had their own tournaments (regionals) with solid money for a long time and didn't show any growth in comparison with europe during the time growth could have happened so should they be rewarded now?
On June 23 2022 15:55 DIVINE_PEZZ wrote: You guys are literally just arguing over which players are better when that's only half the argument.
Did we just forget about regional growth? Does it not matter anymore now that EU players have had region lock benefit them? We can just forget about the rest of the regions right?
OCE/TW/CHINA/LAM aren't going to improve if they're given no opportunities to play in events and no potential of making a career out of pro gaming.
ESL may as well be called European Simp League. Oh no, the shock, the horror, lesser skilled regions were given 1 qualifier slot to a premier tournament!
Problem is the other regions are NOT growing Especially OCE feels like a wasteland whenever there is no DH Regional going on. No one even bothers to Play in any of the weekly Cups, it s only the Europeans, Koreans and a few NA/LA players in there. Every other month or so also Nice or Time. But I can t recall a Single weekly with a Single Oce Player in there. Feel free to prove me wrong.
Pezz not responding is hopefully, because he grinds some games in preperation for this weekends ESL KR weekly? I would gladly cheer for him there
On June 23 2022 15:55 DIVINE_PEZZ wrote: You guys are literally just arguing over which players are better when that's only half the argument.
Did we just forget about regional growth? Does it not matter anymore now that EU players have had region lock benefit them? We can just forget about the rest of the regions right?
OCE/TW/CHINA/LAM aren't going to improve if they're given no opportunities to play in events and no potential of making a career out of pro gaming.
ESL may as well be called European Simp League. Oh no, the shock, the horror, lesser skilled regions were given 1 qualifier slot to a premier tournament!
Problem is the other regions are NOT growing Especially OCE feels like a wasteland whenever there is no DH Regional going on. No one even bothers to Play in any of the weekly Cups, it s only the Europeans, Koreans and a few NA/LA players in there. Every other month or so also Nice or Time. But I can t recall a Single weekly with a Single Oce Player in there. Feel free to prove me wrong.
Well if you're from Australia you're literally forced onto 250ms+ ping to even play the NA weekly. It's forced Central server, despite the fact that Aus/EU both get 180ms to West. Not to mention its on during work hours. You expect people to quit their jobs to play in a weekly on 300ms?
The unfair ping situation is something I've already expressed my frustrations with.
Too bad, no Rogue, Maru and also Cure, Trap. I guess I may have to skip watching whole tournament unless Serral booted out early. Putting all aside, I would love to see Clem or herO taking a crown instead.
On June 24 2022 01:11 swarminfestor wrote: Too bad, no Rogue, Maru and also Cure, Trap. I guess I may have to skip watching whole tournament unless Serral booted out early. Putting all aside, I would love to see Clem or herO taking a crown instead.
Rogue , Trap and Cure won't be at any tournament outside of Korea
what I said instead of actually quoting what I said and disagree with the statement I called out someone as "not cool" or giving the impression I didn't like a particular player.
I discovered there's a PM feature. Let's take it there.
First major international event and we have 3 NA players in the top 16 yet they supposedly only deserve 2 in the ro32 of HSC. Scarlett and Astrea placed higher in Valencia than Mana, Harstem, Spirit, uThermal Shadown, Showtime, Ptitdrogo, and they even placed equal to Lambo. Only 3 EU players are going to end up doing better than them (barring a miracle from HM). Neeb is alive and in the top 8. Even Trigger took a top 32 placement. Hopefully this distribution is reconsidered for HSC XXII.
On July 03 2022 02:51 JJH777 wrote: First major international event and we have 3 NA players in the top 16 yet they supposedly only deserve 2 in the ro32 of HSC. Scarlett and Astrea placed higher in Valencia than Mana, Harstem, Spirit, uThermal Shadown, Showtime, Ptitdrogo, and they even placed equal to Lambo. Only 3 EU players are going to end up doing better than them (barring a miracle from HM). Neeb is alive and in the top 8. Even Trigger took a top 32 placement. Hopefully this distribution is reconsidered for HSC XXII.
Two things:
1) I will adress this even though I could ignore it but I prefer to engage with the community. I hope this holds some value here. 2) I wrote a pretty long reply but I think this will be better since I don't think you would take the long reply as neutral so here is my answer to you.
a) I already mentioned previously that limiting spots for Korea is what I am looking to most since a lot of playere retired or can't travel.
b) I already mentioned previously that those spots would potentially go towards NA.
c) judging performance based on one tournament isn't good.
Ro16 for Astrea meant 2-0 NightMare/1-2 Creator/2-1 NightMare/ 3-0Meomaika Ro16 for Elazer meant 0-2 Neeb/1-2 ByuN//2-1 Kelazhur/3-0 Solar
This isn't to judge either of them but simply give a statement about how much a Ro16/Ro8+ performance can vary.
3) I didn't discredit NA talent when adressing Scarlett vs top 10 EU - I simply chose to rate her by her often shakyness. This means I rate her insanely high in peak and not as high when she struggles. I find that is a pretty fair estimate.
Conclusion: As mentioned I want to increase spots but certainly not a by a big margin. SpeCial for example comes (usually) over LA. Some players are exchangable EU/NA. My main goal would be global qualifiers and have that solve itself.
On July 03 2022 02:51 JJH777 wrote: First major international event and we have 3 NA players in the top 16 yet they supposedly only deserve 2 in the ro32 of HSC. Scarlett and Astrea placed higher in Valencia than Mana, Harstem, Spirit, uThermal Shadown, Showtime, Ptitdrogo, and they even placed equal to Lambo. Only 3 EU players are going to end up doing better than them (barring a miracle from HM). Neeb is alive and in the top 8. Even Trigger took a top 32 placement. Hopefully this distribution is reconsidered for HSC XXII.
Two things:
1) I will adress this even though I could ignore it but I prefer to engage with the community. I hope this holds some value here. 2) I wrote a pretty long reply but I think this will be better since I don't think you would take the long reply as neutral so here is my answer to you.
a) I already mentioned previously that limiting spots for Korea is what I am looking to most since a lot of playere retired or can't travel.
b) I already mentioned previously that those spots would potentially go towards NA.
c) judging performance based on one tournament isn't good.
Ro16 for Astrea meant 2-0 NightMare/1-2 Creator/2-1 NightMare/ 3-0Meomaika Ro16 for Elazer meant 0-2 Neeb/1-2 ByuN//2-1 Kelazhur/3-0 Solar
This isn't to judge either of them but simply give a statement about how much a Ro16/Ro8+ performance can vary.
3) I didn't discredit NA talent when adressing Scarlett vs top 10 EU - I simply chose to rate her by her often shakyness. This means I rate her insanely high in peak and not as high when she struggles. I find that is a pretty fair estimate.
Conclusion: As mentioned I want to increase spots but certainly not a by a big margin. SpeCial for example comes (usually) over LA. Some players are exchangable EU/NA. My main goal would be global qualifiers and have that solve itself.
Limiting from Korea with 12 rather than EU with 14 is just as bad. KR only had 10 notable names at Valencia and they all did well.
You say it's judging performance based on one event but it's just the latest in a long string of evidence which was discounted for being old results. There's a ton of evidence that's already been brought up on this thread that EU does not deserve 14 slots in a 32 player global event. They would maybe get that with low KR participation and removing the weaker region slots but that's about it and even in that scenario they wouldn't have 14 every time. Basically every global event with open qualifiers from the last few years along with the season finals support this. Aligulac rankings agree. Now Valencia as well.
On July 03 2022 02:51 JJH777 wrote: First major international event and we have 3 NA players in the top 16 yet they supposedly only deserve 2 in the ro32 of HSC. Scarlett and Astrea placed higher in Valencia than Mana, Harstem, Spirit, uThermal Shadown, Showtime, Ptitdrogo, and they even placed equal to Lambo. Only 3 EU players are going to end up doing better than them (barring a miracle from HM). Neeb is alive and in the top 8. Even Trigger took a top 32 placement. Hopefully this distribution is reconsidered for HSC XXII.
Two things:
1) I will adress this even though I could ignore it but I prefer to engage with the community. I hope this holds some value here. 2) I wrote a pretty long reply but I think this will be better since I don't think you would take the long reply as neutral so here is my answer to you.
a) I already mentioned previously that limiting spots for Korea is what I am looking to most since a lot of playere retired or can't travel.
b) I already mentioned previously that those spots would potentially go towards NA.
c) judging performance based on one tournament isn't good.
Ro16 for Astrea meant 2-0 NightMare/1-2 Creator/2-1 NightMare/ 3-0Meomaika Ro16 for Elazer meant 0-2 Neeb/1-2 ByuN//2-1 Kelazhur/3-0 Solar
This isn't to judge either of them but simply give a statement about how much a Ro16/Ro8+ performance can vary.
3) I didn't discredit NA talent when adressing Scarlett vs top 10 EU - I simply chose to rate her by her often shakyness. This means I rate her insanely high in peak and not as high when she struggles. I find that is a pretty fair estimate.
Conclusion: As mentioned I want to increase spots but certainly not a by a big margin. SpeCial for example comes (usually) over LA. Some players are exchangable EU/NA. My main goal would be global qualifiers and have that solve itself.
Limiting from Korea with 12 rather than EU with 14 is just as bad. KR only had 10 notable names at Valencia and they all did well.
You say it's judging performance based on one event but it's just the latest in a long string of evidence which was discounted for being old results. There's a ton of evidence that's already been brought up on this thread that EU does not deserve 14 slots in a 32 player global event. They would maybe get that with low KR participation and removing the weaker region slots but that's about it and even in that scenario they wouldn't have 14 every time. Basically every global event with open qualifiers from the last few years along with the season finals support this. Aligulac rankings agree. Now Valencia as well.
Bring up a slot number for NA then Maru and Dark dont participate in HSC so they kinda get cut too. It doesnt matter how many good potential is in the region if the players dont want to or cannot play.
With the players who participated in Korea you can probably do:
1 OCE 1 TW/HK 2 CN 1 LatAm 10 KR 5 NA 12 EU
I do not think you could argue a 4th+5th slot of NA vs 13 and 14 of EU If I am honest. You have ~7-8 players that are equal or better to your best NA players. Best NA being Neeb, Astrea and Scarlett.
After that there is plenty. Nina, Trigger, Future, DisK and Vindicta probably the next in line and you cant say with a straight face that those are better than EU Players that come after the top players such as SKillous, Spirit, PtitDrogo, (retired) uThermal so at this point its "how you want to split spots".
If this would be an NA tournament I could nearly promise it is the above mentioned split but this is a European based tournament.
Also please dont forget If you are not top 4 in Europe you dont go to events or have as many chances cause its either invite and you dont get invited or you dont qualify. You get into the spotlight quicker in NA as the region has less depth. (Are you argueing here too?)
In a perfect world as I said I would do full global qualifiers but I think to see where we are going I will try to give minimum slots to each region (1,1,1,1,2,6,12 iirc) and try to have 8 slots via global If I can manage or thats allowed. As you can see this is already pretty predetermined and pushed towards Korea which with current travel reatriction and retirement doesn't feel correct.
- naruto
Edit: with 50% of the slots blocked for Korea and 4 for TW/HK , LatAm, OCE and CN this leaves 16 Slots Open.
On July 03 2022 02:51 JJH777 wrote: First major international event and we have 3 NA players in the top 16 yet they supposedly only deserve 2 in the ro32 of HSC. Scarlett and Astrea placed higher in Valencia than Mana, Harstem, Spirit, uThermal Shadown, Showtime, Ptitdrogo, and they even placed equal to Lambo. Only 3 EU players are going to end up doing better than them (barring a miracle from HM). Neeb is alive and in the top 8. Even Trigger took a top 32 placement. Hopefully this distribution is reconsidered for HSC XXII.
Two things:
1) I will adress this even though I could ignore it but I prefer to engage with the community. I hope this holds some value here. 2) I wrote a pretty long reply but I think this will be better since I don't think you would take the long reply as neutral so here is my answer to you.
a) I already mentioned previously that limiting spots for Korea is what I am looking to most since a lot of playere retired or can't travel.
b) I already mentioned previously that those spots would potentially go towards NA.
c) judging performance based on one tournament isn't good.
Ro16 for Astrea meant 2-0 NightMare/1-2 Creator/2-1 NightMare/ 3-0Meomaika Ro16 for Elazer meant 0-2 Neeb/1-2 ByuN//2-1 Kelazhur/3-0 Solar
This isn't to judge either of them but simply give a statement about how much a Ro16/Ro8+ performance can vary.
3) I didn't discredit NA talent when adressing Scarlett vs top 10 EU - I simply chose to rate her by her often shakyness. This means I rate her insanely high in peak and not as high when she struggles. I find that is a pretty fair estimate.
Conclusion: As mentioned I want to increase spots but certainly not a by a big margin. SpeCial for example comes (usually) over LA. Some players are exchangable EU/NA. My main goal would be global qualifiers and have that solve itself.
Limiting from Korea with 12 rather than EU with 14 is just as bad. KR only had 10 notable names at Valencia and they all did well.
You say it's judging performance based on one event but it's just the latest in a long string of evidence which was discounted for being old results. There's a ton of evidence that's already been brought up on this thread that EU does not deserve 14 slots in a 32 player global event. They would maybe get that with low KR participation and removing the weaker region slots but that's about it and even in that scenario they wouldn't have 14 every time. Basically every global event with open qualifiers from the last few years along with the season finals support this. Aligulac rankings agree. Now Valencia as well.
Bring up a slot number for NA then Maru and Dark dont participate in HSC so they kinda get cut too. It doesnt matter how many good potential is in the region if the players dont want to or cannot play.
With the players who participated in Korea you can probably do:
1 OCE 1 TW/HK 2 CN 1 LatAm 10 KR 5 NA 12 EU
I do not think you could argue a 4th+5th slot of NA vs 13 and 14 of EU If I am honest. You have ~7-8 players that are equal or better to your best NA players. Best NA being Neeb, Astrea and Scarlett.
After that there is plenty. Nina, Trigger, Future, DisK and Vindicta probably the next in line and you cant say with a straight face that those are better than EU Players that come after the top players such as SKillous, Spirit, PtitDrogo, (retired) uThermal so at this point its "how you want to split spots".
If this would be an NA tournament I could nearly promise it is the above mentioned split but this is a European based tournament.
Also please dont forget If you are not top 4 in Europe you dont go to events or have as many chances cause its either invite and you dont get invited or you dont qualify. You get into the spotlight quicker in NA as the region has less depth. (Are you argueing here too?)
In a perfect world as I said I would do full global qualifiers but I think to see where we are going I will try to give minimum slots to each region (1,1,1,1,2,6,12 iirc) and try to have 8 slots via global If I can manage or thats allowed. As you can see this is already pretty predetermined and pushed towards Korea which with current travel reatriction and retirement doesn't feel correct.
- naruto
Edit: with 50% of the slots blocked for Korea and 4 for TW/HK , LatAm, OCE and CN this leaves 16 Slots Open.
Can we agree there? This leaves 6 slots. Tell me how you would split them or how you see it. I am interested.
I don't disagree with the idea that it is easier for NA players to get seeds to things like world championships and season finals and thus a few upsets can become a big result for them. I don't think that makes any difference for fully open or open bracket events though and I looked through a bunch (TSL, Asus, next, last chance) before making my initial post and unless I missed an event I could not find a single example of EU taking up a proportion of 14/32 or 7/16 (for the smaller events). EU's relative strength has increased since all of those events due to KR retirements but that is somewhat counteracted by Maxpax not participating in offline events and 14/32 still seems like too much since in most of those events EU was only around 10-11 for the 32 player ones and 4-5 for the 16 player ones.
I agree that the 4th of NA is worse than the rank 13 (14 without Maxpax) EU player. I don't think it's a massive difference though. I don't have any trouble seeing trigger taking a bo3 off the players you mentioned. Aligulac gives them a 40%+ shot vs most of them.
Aside from the global qualifier option you mentioned I think 12 KR, 12 EU, 1 each for the 3 other regions, 3 for NA, 2 for CN. (depending on travel issues) would be fair. This is similar to a global qualifier but I think the second CN slot being an open qualifier that only allows non KR/EU regions to participate would produce the highest level non KR/EU player with the best upset potential.
If Maxpax starts playing offline and the KR situation with players like Maru/Dark/Rogue/Trap stays the same I could see taking a slot from KR and giving it to EU. As of right now though even without those 4 the 12th ranked KR is still very close or better than the 12th ranked EU. That would be someone like Ryung who got top 12 in Katowice followed it up with a top 10 in GSL.
On July 03 2022 02:51 JJH777 wrote: First major international event and we have 3 NA players in the top 16 yet they supposedly only deserve 2 in the ro32 of HSC. Scarlett and Astrea placed higher in Valencia than Mana, Harstem, Spirit, uThermal Shadown, Showtime, Ptitdrogo, and they even placed equal to Lambo. Only 3 EU players are going to end up doing better than them (barring a miracle from HM). Neeb is alive and in the top 8. Even Trigger took a top 32 placement. Hopefully this distribution is reconsidered for HSC XXII.
Two things:
1) I will adress this even though I could ignore it but I prefer to engage with the community. I hope this holds some value here. 2) I wrote a pretty long reply but I think this will be better since I don't think you would take the long reply as neutral so here is my answer to you.
a) I already mentioned previously that limiting spots for Korea is what I am looking to most since a lot of playere retired or can't travel.
b) I already mentioned previously that those spots would potentially go towards NA.
c) judging performance based on one tournament isn't good.
Ro16 for Astrea meant 2-0 NightMare/1-2 Creator/2-1 NightMare/ 3-0Meomaika Ro16 for Elazer meant 0-2 Neeb/1-2 ByuN//2-1 Kelazhur/3-0 Solar
This isn't to judge either of them but simply give a statement about how much a Ro16/Ro8+ performance can vary.
3) I didn't discredit NA talent when adressing Scarlett vs top 10 EU - I simply chose to rate her by her often shakyness. This means I rate her insanely high in peak and not as high when she struggles. I find that is a pretty fair estimate.
Conclusion: As mentioned I want to increase spots but certainly not a by a big margin. SpeCial for example comes (usually) over LA. Some players are exchangable EU/NA. My main goal would be global qualifiers and have that solve itself.
Limiting from Korea with 12 rather than EU with 14 is just as bad. KR only had 10 notable names at Valencia and they all did well.
You say it's judging performance based on one event but it's just the latest in a long string of evidence which was discounted for being old results. There's a ton of evidence that's already been brought up on this thread that EU does not deserve 14 slots in a 32 player global event. They would maybe get that with low KR participation and removing the weaker region slots but that's about it and even in that scenario they wouldn't have 14 every time. Basically every global event with open qualifiers from the last few years along with the season finals support this. Aligulac rankings agree. Now Valencia as well.
Bring up a slot number for NA then Maru and Dark dont participate in HSC so they kinda get cut too. It doesnt matter how many good potential is in the region if the players dont want to or cannot play.
With the players who participated in Korea you can probably do:
1 OCE 1 TW/HK 2 CN 1 LatAm 10 KR 5 NA 12 EU
I do not think you could argue a 4th+5th slot of NA vs 13 and 14 of EU If I am honest. You have ~7-8 players that are equal or better to your best NA players. Best NA being Neeb, Astrea and Scarlett.
After that there is plenty. Nina, Trigger, Future, DisK and Vindicta probably the next in line and you cant say with a straight face that those are better than EU Players that come after the top players such as SKillous, Spirit, PtitDrogo, (retired) uThermal so at this point its "how you want to split spots".
If this would be an NA tournament I could nearly promise it is the above mentioned split but this is a European based tournament.
Also please dont forget If you are not top 4 in Europe you dont go to events or have as many chances cause its either invite and you dont get invited or you dont qualify. You get into the spotlight quicker in NA as the region has less depth. (Are you argueing here too?)
In a perfect world as I said I would do full global qualifiers but I think to see where we are going I will try to give minimum slots to each region (1,1,1,1,2,6,12 iirc) and try to have 8 slots via global If I can manage or thats allowed. As you can see this is already pretty predetermined and pushed towards Korea which with current travel reatriction and retirement doesn't feel correct.
- naruto
Edit: with 50% of the slots blocked for Korea and 4 for TW/HK , LatAm, OCE and CN this leaves 16 Slots Open.
Can we agree there? This leaves 6 slots. Tell me how you would split them or how you see it. I am interested.
- i think 3 NA/13 EU is a good split for an european offline tournament. 2 NA region / 2 NA server works too. - 24/32 EU+KR is a good target for tournaments that grant ept points. 26/32 or 28/32 is too high - moving one KR slot to CN (for a total of 2 CN slots) is justifiable based on viewership numbers. although there's no existing mechanism to monetize CN viewers
On July 03 2022 02:51 JJH777 wrote: First major international event and we have 3 NA players in the top 16 yet they supposedly only deserve 2 in the ro32 of HSC. Scarlett and Astrea placed higher in Valencia than Mana, Harstem, Spirit, uThermal Shadown, Showtime, Ptitdrogo, and they even placed equal to Lambo. Only 3 EU players are going to end up doing better than them (barring a miracle from HM). Neeb is alive and in the top 8. Even Trigger took a top 32 placement. Hopefully this distribution is reconsidered for HSC XXII.
Two things:
1) I will adress this even though I could ignore it but I prefer to engage with the community. I hope this holds some value here. 2) I wrote a pretty long reply but I think this will be better since I don't think you would take the long reply as neutral so here is my answer to you.
a) I already mentioned previously that limiting spots for Korea is what I am looking to most since a lot of playere retired or can't travel.
b) I already mentioned previously that those spots would potentially go towards NA.
c) judging performance based on one tournament isn't good.
Ro16 for Astrea meant 2-0 NightMare/1-2 Creator/2-1 NightMare/ 3-0Meomaika Ro16 for Elazer meant 0-2 Neeb/1-2 ByuN//2-1 Kelazhur/3-0 Solar
This isn't to judge either of them but simply give a statement about how much a Ro16/Ro8+ performance can vary.
3) I didn't discredit NA talent when adressing Scarlett vs top 10 EU - I simply chose to rate her by her often shakyness. This means I rate her insanely high in peak and not as high when she struggles. I find that is a pretty fair estimate.
Conclusion: As mentioned I want to increase spots but certainly not a by a big margin. SpeCial for example comes (usually) over LA. Some players are exchangable EU/NA. My main goal would be global qualifiers and have that solve itself.
Limiting from Korea with 12 rather than EU with 14 is just as bad. KR only had 10 notable names at Valencia and they all did well.
You say it's judging performance based on one event but it's just the latest in a long string of evidence which was discounted for being old results. There's a ton of evidence that's already been brought up on this thread that EU does not deserve 14 slots in a 32 player global event. They would maybe get that with low KR participation and removing the weaker region slots but that's about it and even in that scenario they wouldn't have 14 every time. Basically every global event with open qualifiers from the last few years along with the season finals support this. Aligulac rankings agree. Now Valencia as well.
Bring up a slot number for NA then Maru and Dark dont participate in HSC so they kinda get cut too. It doesnt matter how many good potential is in the region if the players dont want to or cannot play.
With the players who participated in Korea you can probably do:
1 OCE 1 TW/HK 2 CN 1 LatAm 10 KR 5 NA 12 EU
I do not think you could argue a 4th+5th slot of NA vs 13 and 14 of EU If I am honest. You have ~7-8 players that are equal or better to your best NA players. Best NA being Neeb, Astrea and Scarlett.
After that there is plenty. Nina, Trigger, Future, DisK and Vindicta probably the next in line and you cant say with a straight face that those are better than EU Players that come after the top players such as SKillous, Spirit, PtitDrogo, (retired) uThermal so at this point its "how you want to split spots".
If this would be an NA tournament I could nearly promise it is the above mentioned split but this is a European based tournament.
Also please dont forget If you are not top 4 in Europe you dont go to events or have as many chances cause its either invite and you dont get invited or you dont qualify. You get into the spotlight quicker in NA as the region has less depth. (Are you argueing here too?)
In a perfect world as I said I would do full global qualifiers but I think to see where we are going I will try to give minimum slots to each region (1,1,1,1,2,6,12 iirc) and try to have 8 slots via global If I can manage or thats allowed. As you can see this is already pretty predetermined and pushed towards Korea which with current travel reatriction and retirement doesn't feel correct.
- naruto
Edit: with 50% of the slots blocked for Korea and 4 for TW/HK , LatAm, OCE and CN this leaves 16 Slots Open.
Can we agree there? This leaves 6 slots. Tell me how you would split them or how you see it. I am interested.
- i think 3 NA/13 EU is a good split for an european offline tournament. 2 NA region / 2 NA server works too. - 24/32 EU+KR is a good target for tournaments that grant ept points. 26/32 or 28/32 is too high - moving one KR slot to CN (for a total of 2 CN slots) is justifiable based on viewership numbers. although there's no existing mechanism to monetize CN viewers
On July 03 2022 02:51 JJH777 wrote: First major international event and we have 3 NA players in the top 16 yet they supposedly only deserve 2 in the ro32 of HSC. Scarlett and Astrea placed higher in Valencia than Mana, Harstem, Spirit, uThermal Shadown, Showtime, Ptitdrogo, and they even placed equal to Lambo. Only 3 EU players are going to end up doing better than them (barring a miracle from HM). Neeb is alive and in the top 8. Even Trigger took a top 32 placement. Hopefully this distribution is reconsidered for HSC XXII.
Two things:
1) I will adress this even though I could ignore it but I prefer to engage with the community. I hope this holds some value here. 2) I wrote a pretty long reply but I think this will be better since I don't think you would take the long reply as neutral so here is my answer to you.
a) I already mentioned previously that limiting spots for Korea is what I am looking to most since a lot of playere retired or can't travel.
b) I already mentioned previously that those spots would potentially go towards NA.
c) judging performance based on one tournament isn't good.
Ro16 for Astrea meant 2-0 NightMare/1-2 Creator/2-1 NightMare/ 3-0Meomaika Ro16 for Elazer meant 0-2 Neeb/1-2 ByuN//2-1 Kelazhur/3-0 Solar
This isn't to judge either of them but simply give a statement about how much a Ro16/Ro8+ performance can vary.
3) I didn't discredit NA talent when adressing Scarlett vs top 10 EU - I simply chose to rate her by her often shakyness. This means I rate her insanely high in peak and not as high when she struggles. I find that is a pretty fair estimate.
Conclusion: As mentioned I want to increase spots but certainly not a by a big margin. SpeCial for example comes (usually) over LA. Some players are exchangable EU/NA. My main goal would be global qualifiers and have that solve itself.
Limiting from Korea with 12 rather than EU with 14 is just as bad. KR only had 10 notable names at Valencia and they all did well.
You say it's judging performance based on one event but it's just the latest in a long string of evidence which was discounted for being old results. There's a ton of evidence that's already been brought up on this thread that EU does not deserve 14 slots in a 32 player global event. They would maybe get that with low KR participation and removing the weaker region slots but that's about it and even in that scenario they wouldn't have 14 every time. Basically every global event with open qualifiers from the last few years along with the season finals support this. Aligulac rankings agree. Now Valencia as well.
Bring up a slot number for NA then Maru and Dark dont participate in HSC so they kinda get cut too. It doesnt matter how many good potential is in the region if the players dont want to or cannot play.
With the players who participated in Korea you can probably do:
1 OCE 1 TW/HK 2 CN 1 LatAm 10 KR 5 NA 12 EU
I do not think you could argue a 4th+5th slot of NA vs 13 and 14 of EU If I am honest. You have ~7-8 players that are equal or better to your best NA players. Best NA being Neeb, Astrea and Scarlett.
After that there is plenty. Nina, Trigger, Future, DisK and Vindicta probably the next in line and you cant say with a straight face that those are better than EU Players that come after the top players such as SKillous, Spirit, PtitDrogo, (retired) uThermal so at this point its "how you want to split spots".
If this would be an NA tournament I could nearly promise it is the above mentioned split but this is a European based tournament.
Also please dont forget If you are not top 4 in Europe you dont go to events or have as many chances cause its either invite and you dont get invited or you dont qualify. You get into the spotlight quicker in NA as the region has less depth. (Are you argueing here too?)
In a perfect world as I said I would do full global qualifiers but I think to see where we are going I will try to give minimum slots to each region (1,1,1,1,2,6,12 iirc) and try to have 8 slots via global If I can manage or thats allowed. As you can see this is already pretty predetermined and pushed towards Korea which with current travel reatriction and retirement doesn't feel correct.
- naruto
Edit: with 50% of the slots blocked for Korea and 4 for TW/HK , LatAm, OCE and CN this leaves 16 Slots Open.
Can we agree there? This leaves 6 slots. Tell me how you would split them or how you see it. I am interested.
- i think 3 NA/13 EU is a good split for an european offline tournament. 2 NA region / 2 NA server works too. - 24/32 EU+KR is a good target for tournaments that grant ept points. 26/32 or 28/32 is too high - moving one KR slot to CN (for a total of 2 CN slots) is justifiable based on viewership numbers. although there's no existing mechanism to monetize CN viewers
KR required mininum is 12 :/
Well that's awkward with how shallow the scene is and how various players can't easily leave the country due to their age.
lol, I dont think its much a "choice" between GSL Ro.6 and HSC for KR players, no disrespect to you guys. So that means herO and Ragnarok are pretty much the ones that will be missing, with Creator, Bunny, DRG and Zoun are on the watch. And I assume the replacement players shall be chosen from KR players pool? Also I guess the main schedule conflict is actually because of DH Valencia? That push the GSL 1-week longer and clash with HSC, and then you cant push HSC another week because of TSL9? Although I think TSL9 could shift their schedule as well considering the first portion of the tournament are online.
On July 08 2022 22:34 tigera6 wrote: lol, I dont think its much a "choice" between GSL Ro.6 and HSC for KR players, no disrespect to you guys. So that means herO and Ragnarok are pretty much the ones that will be missing, with Creator, Bunny, DRG and Zoun are on the watch. And I assume the replacement players shall be chosen from KR players pool? Also I guess the main schedule conflict is actually because of DH Valencia? That push the GSL 1-week longer and clash with HSC, and then you cant push HSC another week because of TSL9? Although I think TSL9 could shift their schedule as well considering the first portion of the tournament are online.
We cannot push an offline tournament yes. This is just an unfortunate scenario and all parties involved seemingly missed this conflict before it was too late.
We don't take it as offence. GSL is more prestigious and more important to Koreans as well as has bigger overall money included. Thats why we are sad to "make them choose". Obviously especially Creator loves HSC and no player should ahve to pick. As mentioned this unfortunately is our case now :C
I assume Maru/Dark will go through which means - if you doesnt make it - 4 players will drop. The replacements from the Korean region are Maru/Dark who obviously will play GSL. After that it gets way more complex and I am too busy right now to break it down publicly
On July 08 2022 22:34 tigera6 wrote: lol, I dont think its much a "choice" between GSL Ro.6 and HSC for KR players, no disrespect to you guys. So that means herO and Ragnarok are pretty much the ones that will be missing, with Creator, Bunny, DRG and Zoun are on the watch. And I assume the replacement players shall be chosen from KR players pool? Also I guess the main schedule conflict is actually because of DH Valencia? That push the GSL 1-week longer and clash with HSC, and then you cant push HSC another week because of TSL9? Although I think TSL9 could shift their schedule as well considering the first portion of the tournament are online.
We cannot push an offline tournament yes. This is just an unfortunate scenario and all parties involved seemingly missed this conflict before it was too late.
We don't take it as offence. GSL is more prestigious and more important to Koreans as well as has bigger overall money included. Thats why we are sad to "make them choose". Obviously especially Creator loves HSC and no player should ahve to pick. As mentioned this unfortunately is our case now :C
I assume Maru/Dark will go through which means - if you doesnt make it - 4 players will drop. The replacements from the Korean region are Maru/Dark who obviously will play GSL. After that it gets way more complex and I am too busy right now to break it down publicly
- NarutO
It's all good Naruto, thanks a lot for the hard work as always, it should be a blast!
On July 08 2022 22:34 tigera6 wrote: lol, I dont think its much a "choice" between GSL Ro.6 and HSC for KR players, no disrespect to you guys. So that means herO and Ragnarok are pretty much the ones that will be missing, with Creator, Bunny, DRG and Zoun are on the watch. And I assume the replacement players shall be chosen from KR players pool? Also I guess the main schedule conflict is actually because of DH Valencia? That push the GSL 1-week longer and clash with HSC, and then you cant push HSC another week because of TSL9? Although I think TSL9 could shift their schedule as well considering the first portion of the tournament are online.
We cannot push an offline tournament yes. This is just an unfortunate scenario and all parties involved seemingly missed this conflict before it was too late.
We don't take it as offence. GSL is more prestigious and more important to Koreans as well as has bigger overall money included. Thats why we are sad to "make them choose". Obviously especially Creator loves HSC and no player should ahve to pick. As mentioned this unfortunately is our case now :C
I assume Maru/Dark will go through which means - if you doesnt make it - 4 players will drop. The replacements from the Korean region are Maru/Dark who obviously will play GSL. After that it gets way more complex and I am too busy right now to break it down publicly
- NarutO
If Maru/Dark falls through, any chance Scarlett could be invited from global points standing like ryung, or did she already decline?
On July 08 2022 22:34 tigera6 wrote: lol, I dont think its much a "choice" between GSL Ro.6 and HSC for KR players, no disrespect to you guys. So that means herO and Ragnarok are pretty much the ones that will be missing, with Creator, Bunny, DRG and Zoun are on the watch. And I assume the replacement players shall be chosen from KR players pool? Also I guess the main schedule conflict is actually because of DH Valencia? That push the GSL 1-week longer and clash with HSC, and then you cant push HSC another week because of TSL9? Although I think TSL9 could shift their schedule as well considering the first portion of the tournament are online.
We cannot push an offline tournament yes. This is just an unfortunate scenario and all parties involved seemingly missed this conflict before it was too late.
We don't take it as offence. GSL is more prestigious and more important to Koreans as well as has bigger overall money included. Thats why we are sad to "make them choose". Obviously especially Creator loves HSC and no player should ahve to pick. As mentioned this unfortunately is our case now :C
I assume Maru/Dark will go through which means - if you doesnt make it - 4 players will drop. The replacements from the Korean region are Maru/Dark who obviously will play GSL. After that it gets way more complex and I am too busy right now to break it down publicly
- NarutO
If Maru/Dark falls through, any chance Scarlett could be invited from global points standing like ryung, or did she already decline?
Special cant travel Scarlett declined MaxPax doesn't attend offline other chinese players cant replace Cyan
On July 08 2022 22:34 tigera6 wrote: lol, I dont think its much a "choice" between GSL Ro.6 and HSC for KR players, no disrespect to you guys. So that means herO and Ragnarok are pretty much the ones that will be missing, with Creator, Bunny, DRG and Zoun are on the watch. And I assume the replacement players shall be chosen from KR players pool? Also I guess the main schedule conflict is actually because of DH Valencia? That push the GSL 1-week longer and clash with HSC, and then you cant push HSC another week because of TSL9? Although I think TSL9 could shift their schedule as well considering the first portion of the tournament are online.
We cannot push an offline tournament yes. This is just an unfortunate scenario and all parties involved seemingly missed this conflict before it was too late.
We don't take it as offence. GSL is more prestigious and more important to Koreans as well as has bigger overall money included. Thats why we are sad to "make them choose". Obviously especially Creator loves HSC and no player should ahve to pick. As mentioned this unfortunately is our case now :C
I assume Maru/Dark will go through which means - if you doesnt make it - 4 players will drop. The replacements from the Korean region are Maru/Dark who obviously will play GSL. After that it gets way more complex and I am too busy right now to break it down publicly
- NarutO
If Maru/Dark falls through, any chance Scarlett could be invited from global points standing like ryung, or did she already decline?
Special cant travel Scarlett declined MaxPax doesn't attend offline other chinese players cant replace Cyan
On July 03 2022 02:51 JJH777 wrote: First major international event and we have 3 NA players in the top 16 yet they supposedly only deserve 2 in the ro32 of HSC. Scarlett and Astrea placed higher in Valencia than Mana, Harstem, Spirit, uThermal Shadown, Showtime, Ptitdrogo, and they even placed equal to Lambo. Only 3 EU players are going to end up doing better than them (barring a miracle from HM). Neeb is alive and in the top 8. Even Trigger took a top 32 placement. Hopefully this distribution is reconsidered for HSC XXII.
Two things:
1) I will adress this even though I could ignore it but I prefer to engage with the community. I hope this holds some value here. 2) I wrote a pretty long reply but I think this will be better since I don't think you would take the long reply as neutral so here is my answer to you.
a) I already mentioned previously that limiting spots for Korea is what I am looking to most since a lot of playere retired or can't travel.
b) I already mentioned previously that those spots would potentially go towards NA.
c) judging performance based on one tournament isn't good.
Ro16 for Astrea meant 2-0 NightMare/1-2 Creator/2-1 NightMare/ 3-0Meomaika Ro16 for Elazer meant 0-2 Neeb/1-2 ByuN//2-1 Kelazhur/3-0 Solar
This isn't to judge either of them but simply give a statement about how much a Ro16/Ro8+ performance can vary.
3) I didn't discredit NA talent when adressing Scarlett vs top 10 EU - I simply chose to rate her by her often shakyness. This means I rate her insanely high in peak and not as high when she struggles. I find that is a pretty fair estimate.
Conclusion: As mentioned I want to increase spots but certainly not a by a big margin. SpeCial for example comes (usually) over LA. Some players are exchangable EU/NA. My main goal would be global qualifiers and have that solve itself.
Limiting from Korea with 12 rather than EU with 14 is just as bad. KR only had 10 notable names at Valencia and they all did well.
You say it's judging performance based on one event but it's just the latest in a long string of evidence which was discounted for being old results. There's a ton of evidence that's already been brought up on this thread that EU does not deserve 14 slots in a 32 player global event. They would maybe get that with low KR participation and removing the weaker region slots but that's about it and even in that scenario they wouldn't have 14 every time. Basically every global event with open qualifiers from the last few years along with the season finals support this. Aligulac rankings agree. Now Valencia as well.
Bring up a slot number for NA then Maru and Dark dont participate in HSC so they kinda get cut too. It doesnt matter how many good potential is in the region if the players dont want to or cannot play.
With the players who participated in Korea you can probably do:
1 OCE 1 TW/HK 2 CN 1 LatAm 10 KR 5 NA 12 EU
I do not think you could argue a 4th+5th slot of NA vs 13 and 14 of EU If I am honest. You have ~7-8 players that are equal or better to your best NA players. Best NA being Neeb, Astrea and Scarlett.
After that there is plenty. Nina, Trigger, Future, DisK and Vindicta probably the next in line and you cant say with a straight face that those are better than EU Players that come after the top players such as SKillous, Spirit, PtitDrogo, (retired) uThermal so at this point its "how you want to split spots".
If this would be an NA tournament I could nearly promise it is the above mentioned split but this is a European based tournament.
Also please dont forget If you are not top 4 in Europe you dont go to events or have as many chances cause its either invite and you dont get invited or you dont qualify. You get into the spotlight quicker in NA as the region has less depth. (Are you argueing here too?)
In a perfect world as I said I would do full global qualifiers but I think to see where we are going I will try to give minimum slots to each region (1,1,1,1,2,6,12 iirc) and try to have 8 slots via global If I can manage or thats allowed. As you can see this is already pretty predetermined and pushed towards Korea which with current travel reatriction and retirement doesn't feel correct.
- naruto
Edit: with 50% of the slots blocked for Korea and 4 for TW/HK , LatAm, OCE and CN this leaves 16 Slots Open.
Can we agree there? This leaves 6 slots. Tell me how you would split them or how you see it. I am interested.
- i think 3 NA/13 EU is a good split for an european offline tournament. 2 NA region / 2 NA server works too. - 24/32 EU+KR is a good target for tournaments that grant ept points. 26/32 or 28/32 is too high - moving one KR slot to CN (for a total of 2 CN slots) is justifiable based on viewership numbers. although there's no existing mechanism to monetize CN viewers
Or, instead of trying to anticipate the world rankings 6 months after these slots are decided and arbitrarily cap how many players each region can send, we could... I dunno, eliminate region locks altogether and implement a global points system.
On June 07 2022 21:30 tigera6 wrote: Are the qualifier region-locked? If so, EU with 12 slots is ridiculously too many considering Serral and Reynor are invited already.
Yes it is region locked.
From signup numbers for the KR Qualifiers every one who signed up so far would qualify ... meanwhile EU already has 44 signups.
And if you compare it to low tier regions like OCE your comment is ludicrous.
NA with 2 seeds will mean of the 3 competitive NA players we will have 2, so I personally do not see any issues for that region either.
Btw. the invite of Serral is due to him being World Champ, so it has nothing to do with the region. (Reynor was 2nd in IEM btw.)
Tbh. imo EU and KR should haven gotten 1 more slot each and the low tier regions (NA, LatAm, CN, TW, OCE) should have had 1 single Qualifier with 4 slots total.
Please tell me you are joking, you are saying that the top 12-14 players in EU is head and shoulder above the other regions top 2-3 players in NA-LA-TW-OCE? I mean, no disrespect to EU players in general, but how the hell we can miss one of Scarlett-Astrea-Neeb from the tournament just because EU has 12 slot and NA has 2 slots? Thats not counting the players who are actually looking pretty good in the DH NA tournament recently like Disk and Trigger. Also that means Has and Nice will have one guy missing the tournament because of the stupid region restriction.
Like how did we go from a typical DH slot allocation of 6-4-2-1-1-1-1 to a 12-12-2-1-1-1-1 format for this tournament and acting like we care about developing/giving support for the lesser region? Could we have a common qualifier where we have 4-6 slot that can be fought between player from different regions, at least giving them a chance to compete for more slots?
There is a caveat, that this is an offline event and not all players outside of EU are willing to travel there. So its fair if more slots are given to EU players just base off availability alone, but thats why I think we should have a common qualifier for all the regions to compete if they are good enough and want to travel to the event.
i mean idk about head and shoulders but if we for example look at the top 12 of the current DH Valencia for EU it goes:
i don't feel super confident saying Scarlett is CLEARLY better than those guys, for example.
Scarlett is definitely better than several of those players and at least somewhat close to half of them. 2 slots for NA does lower the competitions skill level.
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I personally disagree with your statement. Can Scarlett win matches against those players? Yes. Is she better? I don't think so. There is not one player I would favor Scarlett in a bo5 right now.
If you want to go through it:
Serral - Scarlett is worse Lambo - Scarlett is worse Reynor - Scarlett is worse Showtime - Scarlett is worse Elazer - Scarlett is worse Clem - Scarlett is worse Harstem - on current meta PvZ I believe Harstem is better Heromarine - Scarlett is worse Maxpax - Scarlett is worse Rattata - Scarlett is even, potentially better depending on her form Spirit - Scarlett is worse but I think Spirit is shaky in performance sometimes Skillous - SKillous current form is also better than Scarlett ZvP
Scarlett looked pretty bad against Neeb and Astrea in her ZvP. I know she is a player that can destroy when she is on point but her current form didn't look super great. The weaker players on that list which would be
Harstem, Rattata, Spirit and SKillous for most are still in the current form at least competetive if not better. Saying 2 slots for NA makes the competition worse is just wrong. If you would host global qualifiers on the NA server (15 with 2 slots each) I doubt we would see Astrea, Neeb and Scarlett qualify.
so everybody from that list better than Scarlett, except Rattata who is even
man, are you out of your mind?
also you've mentioned you are a BIG Scarlett fan "when she is on form"
a fan support his player, even if the player lost, that's why he's a fan
At this point HSC is losing all the meaning of being a "global premiere" tournament because of traveling/scheduling issue that ruling out about half of the top players and players from other regions. I am sure the event would still be fun to watch, but as far as ESL and EPT is concerned, this is not a premiere type event anymore.
On July 14 2022 00:35 tigera6 wrote: At this point HSC is losing all the meaning of being a "global premiere" tournament because of traveling/scheduling issue that ruling out about half of the top players and players from other regions. I am sure the event would still be fun to watch, but as far as ESL and EPT is concerned, this is not a premiere type event anymore.
No event outside of Korea will be a real premier anymore. Rogue cannot travel, Trap cannot travel. Zest is retired. Dark often skips events, Maru too. If you base it on Koreans nothing really is but believe me I am way more frustrated about this than you could ever be.
reading this thread must be super exhausting for you naruto, it is for me at least.. combined with all the stress from the organizing and finding replacements, then all the ungreatful comments, this feels like reddit here on TL. I hope you get some days off after HSC to recharge your batterys feels like you do everything for hsc, where is TaKe xD? Thanks for all the hours you put into it everyday, I am already super excited for HSC! good vibes only
Thanks for being so open about all the player movement. Bit of a shame that some of the biggest names will miss out but there is only so much you can control.
On July 16 2022 08:27 Nakajin wrote: Stay strong Naruto, the beer will only be better after all that replacement work!
I don't drink but all I hope for is no short term cancellations or cases of COVID. Replacements starting monday will be moving to regional / local from global.
Also I just hope that the event doesn't run long/short. The team works hard and has a lot of load. I am the guy that has the SC2 experience but as you might know here SC2 matches are hard to impossible to predict and schedule especially since we have to fit sidecontent and commercials too.
I don't want the team to be exhausted after 14 hour days. Ideally I would want to see 12-12, or a bit less. If we run 12-1 that is alright too. Its a really hard balance between satisfying our needs / partner needs and not killing the team and obviously talents/players.
We plan to show like 8-10 matches but the groups will have overlaps. We do have several language streams, an online-english secondary coverage etc. Its impossible to show all of 8 man round robin groups and we hope people understand that.
We will start one group and then the 2nd group will be started if we can make a judgement call on how long it approximately takes. Then its just fingers crossed that we do not have individual 45-60 minute maps.
On July 17 2022 11:28 geokilla wrote: I don't understand why half of these players bothered qualifying if they knew they can't play. Really makes it unfair to the other competitors.
Most of the forfeit was due to health (Covid & Injury) and logistic (visa/passport/GSL schedule) reason, so I would say its mostly legitimate. CN is the only special case where SOMEONE has to qualify yet its not worth for the traveling.
At this point there it might not be a crazy idea to hold open qualifiers on location the day before the tournament, just so you could get all the replacements from the qualifier so easily. Good luck Naruto!
On July 18 2022 19:12 Azhrak wrote: At this point there it might not be a crazy idea to hold open qualifiers on location the day before the tournament, just so you could get all the replacements from the qualifier so easily. Good luck Naruto!
Sounds reasonable, and the ones who don't qualify get to hang out at the best event of the year!
OMG this will start soon hype! Are there any plans to do a HSC in another event location like HSC 20 in Tropical Islands? Preferably one in southern Germany? :D
EPT
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FULPZW5XEAEHFLZ?format=jpg&name=large)
Reynor and 
