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On July 08 2022 22:43 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2022 22:34 tigera6 wrote:
lol, I dont think its much a "choice" between GSL Ro.6 and HSC for KR players, no disrespect to you guys. So that means herO and Ragnarok are pretty much the ones that will be missing, with Creator, Bunny, DRG and Zoun are on the watch. And I assume the replacement players shall be chosen from KR players pool?
Also I guess the main schedule conflict is actually because of DH Valencia? That push the GSL 1-week longer and clash with HSC, and then you cant push HSC another week because of TSL9? Although I think TSL9 could shift their schedule as well considering the first portion of the tournament are online. We cannot push an offline tournament yes. This is just an unfortunate scenario and all parties involved seemingly missed this conflict before it was too late. We don't take it as offence. GSL is more prestigious and more important to Koreans as well as has bigger overall money included. Thats why we are sad to "make them choose". Obviously especially Creator loves HSC and no player should ahve to pick. As mentioned this unfortunately is our case now :C I assume Maru/Dark will go through which means - if you doesnt make it - 4 players will drop. The replacements from the Korean region are Maru/Dark who obviously will play GSL. After that it gets way more complex and I am too busy right now to break it down publicly - NarutO
If Maru/Dark falls through, any chance Scarlett could be invited from global points standing like ryung, or did she already decline?
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On July 09 2022 03:16 argonautdice wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2022 22:43 TaKeTV wrote:On July 08 2022 22:34 tigera6 wrote:
lol, I dont think its much a "choice" between GSL Ro.6 and HSC for KR players, no disrespect to you guys. So that means herO and Ragnarok are pretty much the ones that will be missing, with Creator, Bunny, DRG and Zoun are on the watch. And I assume the replacement players shall be chosen from KR players pool?
Also I guess the main schedule conflict is actually because of DH Valencia? That push the GSL 1-week longer and clash with HSC, and then you cant push HSC another week because of TSL9? Although I think TSL9 could shift their schedule as well considering the first portion of the tournament are online. We cannot push an offline tournament yes. This is just an unfortunate scenario and all parties involved seemingly missed this conflict before it was too late. We don't take it as offence. GSL is more prestigious and more important to Koreans as well as has bigger overall money included. Thats why we are sad to "make them choose". Obviously especially Creator loves HSC and no player should ahve to pick. As mentioned this unfortunately is our case now :C I assume Maru/Dark will go through which means - if you doesnt make it - 4 players will drop. The replacements from the Korean region are Maru/Dark who obviously will play GSL. After that it gets way more complex and I am too busy right now to break it down publicly - NarutO If Maru/Dark falls through, any chance Scarlett could be invited from global points standing like ryung, or did she already decline?
Special cant travel
Scarlett declined
MaxPax doesn't attend offline
other chinese players cant replace Cyan
Thats why Cyan was replaced by Ryung
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On July 09 2022 03:51 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2022 03:16 argonautdice wrote:On July 08 2022 22:43 TaKeTV wrote:On July 08 2022 22:34 tigera6 wrote:
lol, I dont think its much a "choice" between GSL Ro.6 and HSC for KR players, no disrespect to you guys. So that means herO and Ragnarok are pretty much the ones that will be missing, with Creator, Bunny, DRG and Zoun are on the watch. And I assume the replacement players shall be chosen from KR players pool?
Also I guess the main schedule conflict is actually because of DH Valencia? That push the GSL 1-week longer and clash with HSC, and then you cant push HSC another week because of TSL9? Although I think TSL9 could shift their schedule as well considering the first portion of the tournament are online. We cannot push an offline tournament yes. This is just an unfortunate scenario and all parties involved seemingly missed this conflict before it was too late. We don't take it as offence. GSL is more prestigious and more important to Koreans as well as has bigger overall money included. Thats why we are sad to "make them choose". Obviously especially Creator loves HSC and no player should ahve to pick. As mentioned this unfortunately is our case now :C I assume Maru/Dark will go through which means - if you doesnt make it - 4 players will drop. The replacements from the Korean region are Maru/Dark who obviously will play GSL. After that it gets way more complex and I am too busy right now to break it down publicly - NarutO If Maru/Dark falls through, any chance Scarlett could be invited from global points standing like ryung, or did she already decline? Special cant travel Scarlett declined MaxPax doesn't attend offline other chinese players cant replace Cyan Thats why Cyan was replaced by Ryung
Ah thanks for the info.
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On July 03 2022 16:09 warnull wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2022 08:24 TaKeTV wrote:On July 03 2022 07:17 JJH777 wrote:On July 03 2022 05:04 NarutO wrote:On July 03 2022 02:51 JJH777 wrote:
First major international event and we have 3 NA players in the top 16 yet they supposedly only deserve 2 in the ro32 of HSC. Scarlett and Astrea placed higher in Valencia than Mana, Harstem, Spirit, uThermal Shadown, Showtime, Ptitdrogo, and they even placed equal to Lambo. Only 3 EU players are going to end up doing better than them (barring a miracle from HM). Neeb is alive and in the top 8. Even Trigger took a top 32 placement. Hopefully this distribution is reconsidered for HSC XXII. Two things: 1) I will adress this even though I could ignore it but I prefer to engage with the community. I hope this holds some value here. 2) I wrote a pretty long reply but I think this will be better since I don't think you would take the long reply as neutral so here is my answer to you. a) I already mentioned previously that limiting spots for Korea is what I am looking to most since a lot of playere retired or can't travel. b) I already mentioned previously that those spots would potentially go towards NA. c) judging performance based on one tournament isn't good. Ro16 for Astrea meant 2-0 NightMare/1-2 Creator/2-1 NightMare/ 3-0Meomaika Ro16 for Elazer meant 0-2 Neeb/1-2 ByuN//2-1 Kelazhur/3-0 Solar This isn't to judge either of them but simply give a statement about how much a Ro16/Ro8+ performance can vary. 3) I didn't discredit NA talent when adressing Scarlett vs top 10 EU - I simply chose to rate her by her often shakyness. This means I rate her insanely high in peak and not as high when she struggles. I find that is a pretty fair estimate. Conclusion: As mentioned I want to increase spots but certainly not a by a big margin. SpeCial for example comes (usually) over LA. Some players are exchangable EU/NA. My main goal would be global qualifiers and have that solve itself. Limiting from Korea with 12 rather than EU with 14 is just as bad. KR only had 10 notable names at Valencia and they all did well. You say it's judging performance based on one event but it's just the latest in a long string of evidence which was discounted for being old results. There's a ton of evidence that's already been brought up on this thread that EU does not deserve 14 slots in a 32 player global event. They would maybe get that with low KR participation and removing the weaker region slots but that's about it and even in that scenario they wouldn't have 14 every time. Basically every global event with open qualifiers from the last few years along with the season finals support this. Aligulac rankings agree. Now Valencia as well. Bring up a slot number for NA then Maru and Dark dont participate in HSC so they kinda get cut too. It doesnt matter how many good potential is in the region if the players dont want to or cannot play. With the players who participated in Korea you can probably do: 1 OCE 1 TW/HK 2 CN 1 LatAm 10 KR 5 NA 12 EU I do not think you could argue a 4th+5th slot of NA vs 13 and 14 of EU If I am honest. You have ~7-8 players that are equal or better to your best NA players. Best NA being Neeb, Astrea and Scarlett. After that there is plenty. Nina, Trigger, Future, DisK and Vindicta probably the next in line and you cant say with a straight face that those are better than EU Players that come after the top players such as SKillous, Spirit, PtitDrogo, (retired) uThermal so at this point its "how you want to split spots". If this would be an NA tournament I could nearly promise it is the above mentioned split but this is a European based tournament. Also please dont forget If you are not top 4 in Europe you dont go to events or have as many chances cause its either invite and you dont get invited or you dont qualify. You get into the spotlight quicker in NA as the region has less depth. (Are you argueing here too?) In a perfect world as I said I would do full global qualifiers but I think to see where we are going I will try to give minimum slots to each region (1,1,1,1,2,6,12 iirc) and try to have 8 slots via global If I can manage or thats allowed. As you can see this is already pretty predetermined and pushed towards Korea which with current travel reatriction and retirement doesn't feel correct. - naruto Edit: with 50% of the slots blocked for Korea and 4 for TW/HK , LatAm, OCE and CN this leaves 16 Slots Open. In my book there are reasonable calls: Astrea, Scarlett, Neeb, Reynor, Serral, Clem, HeroMarine, Lambo, Showtime, Elazer Can we agree there? This leaves 6 slots. Tell me how you would split them or how you see it. I am interested. - i think 3 NA/13 EU is a good split for an european offline tournament. 2 NA region / 2 NA server works too. - 24/32 EU+KR is a good target for tournaments that grant ept points. 26/32 or 28/32 is too high - moving one KR slot to CN (for a total of 2 CN slots) is justifiable based on viewership numbers. although there's no existing mechanism to monetize CN viewers
Or, instead of trying to anticipate the world rankings 6 months after these slots are decided and arbitrarily cap how many players each region can send, we could... I dunno, eliminate region locks altogether and implement a global points system.
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Damn, Armani broke his hand? That's sad hopefully it heals quickly. He's had rather unfortunate luck this year.
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Too bad about the need for substitutions (especially Armani, that's rough) but this batch of replacements should be fun.
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Wish Armani a speedy recovery. Sucks there need to be so many replacements but it'll be a great tournament regardless 
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SO many subs.. unfortunate, very unfortunate indeed..
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was hoping for some KR replacements, but ok anyways
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On July 13 2022 06:22 mark_lenders wrote:
was hoping for some KR replacements, but ok anyways
Yeah, just noted Europeans Ryung and Gumiho.
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On July 09 2022 03:51 TaKeTV wrote:
MaxPax doesn't attend offline
really, really hope the does attend offline events when he turns 18!
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On July 13 2022 09:54 QOGQOG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2022 06:22 mark_lenders wrote:
was hoping for some KR replacements, but ok anyways Yeah, just noted Europeans Ryung and Gumiho.
i was talking about the players who qualified through KR qualifiers, then were excluded because of the GSL/HSC scheduling conflict
but i understand. they're using the global standings
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On June 08 2022 12:09 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2022 11:33 JJH777 wrote:On June 08 2022 04:11 Schelim wrote:On June 08 2022 00:09 tigera6 wrote:On June 07 2022 21:47 hjpalpha wrote:On June 07 2022 21:30 tigera6 wrote:
Are the qualifier region-locked? If so, EU with 12 slots is ridiculously too many considering Serral and Reynor are invited already. Yes it is region locked. From signup numbers for the KR Qualifiers every one who signed up so far would qualify ... meanwhile EU already has 44 signups. And if you compare it to low tier regions like OCE your comment is ludicrous. NA with 2 seeds will mean of the 3 competitive NA players we will have 2, so I personally do not see any issues for that region either. Btw. the invite of Serral is due to him being World Champ, so it has nothing to do with the region. (Reynor was 2nd in IEM btw.) Tbh. imo EU and KR should haven gotten 1 more slot each and the low tier regions (NA, LatAm, CN, TW, OCE) should have had 1 single Qualifier with 4 slots total. Please tell me you are joking, you are saying that the top 12-14 players in EU is head and shoulder above the other regions top 2-3 players in NA-LA-TW-OCE? I mean, no disrespect to EU players in general, but how the hell we can miss one of Scarlett-Astrea-Neeb from the tournament just because EU has 12 slot and NA has 2 slots? Thats not counting the players who are actually looking pretty good in the DH NA tournament recently like Disk and Trigger. Also that means Has and Nice will have one guy missing the tournament because of the stupid region restriction. Like how did we go from a typical DH slot allocation of 6-4-2-1-1-1-1 to a 12-12-2-1-1-1-1 format for this tournament and acting like we care about developing/giving support for the lesser region? Could we have a common qualifier where we have 4-6 slot that can be fought between player from different regions, at least giving them a chance to compete for more slots? There is a caveat, that this is an offline event and not all players outside of EU are willing to travel there. So its fair if more slots are given to EU players just base off availability alone, but thats why I think we should have a common qualifier for all the regions to compete if they are good enough and want to travel to the event. i mean idk about head and shoulders but if we for example look at the top 12 of the current DH Valencia for EU it goes: Serral Lambo Reynor Showtime Elazer Clem Harstem Heromarine Maxpax Rattata Spirit Skillous i don't feel super confident saying Scarlett is CLEARLY better than those guys, for example. Scarlett is definitely better than several of those players and at least somewhat close to half of them. 2 slots for NA does lower the competitions skill level. That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I personally disagree with your statement. Can Scarlett win matches against those players? Yes. Is she better? I don't think so. There is not one player I would favor Scarlett in a bo5 right now. If you want to go through it: Serral - Scarlett is worse Lambo - Scarlett is worse Reynor - Scarlett is worse Showtime - Scarlett is worse Elazer - Scarlett is worse Clem - Scarlett is worse Harstem - on current meta PvZ I believe Harstem is better Heromarine - Scarlett is worse Maxpax - Scarlett is worse Rattata - Scarlett is even, potentially better depending on her form Spirit - Scarlett is worse but I think Spirit is shaky in performance sometimes Skillous - SKillous current form is also better than Scarlett ZvP Scarlett looked pretty bad against Neeb and Astrea in her ZvP. I know she is a player that can destroy when she is on point but her current form didn't look super great. The weaker players on that list which would be Harstem, Rattata, Spirit and SKillous for most are still in the current form at least competetive if not better. Saying 2 slots for NA makes the competition worse is just wrong. If you would host global qualifiers on the NA server (15 with 2 slots each) I doubt we would see Astrea, Neeb and Scarlett qualify.
so everybody from that list better than Scarlett, except Rattata who is even
man, are you out of your mind?
also you've mentioned you are a BIG Scarlett fan "when she is on form"
a fan support his player, even if the player lost, that's why he's a fan
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At this point HSC is losing all the meaning of being a "global premiere" tournament because of traveling/scheduling issue that ruling out about half of the top players and players from other regions. I am sure the event would still be fun to watch, but as far as ESL and EPT is concerned, this is not a premiere type event anymore.
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On July 14 2022 00:35 tigera6 wrote:
At this point HSC is losing all the meaning of being a "global premiere" tournament because of traveling/scheduling issue that ruling out about half of the top players and players from other regions. I am sure the event would still be fun to watch, but as far as ESL and EPT is concerned, this is not a premiere type event anymore.
No event outside of Korea will be a real premier anymore. Rogue cannot travel, Trap cannot travel. Zest is retired. Dark often skips events, Maru too. If you base it on Koreans nothing really is but believe me I am way more frustrated about this than you could ever be.
- naruto
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reading this thread must be super exhausting for you naruto, it is for me at least.. combined with all the stress from the organizing and finding replacements, then all the ungreatful comments, this feels like reddit here on TL.
I hope you get some days off after HSC to recharge your batterys
feels like you do everything for hsc, where is TaKe xD?
Thanks for all the hours you put into it everyday, I am already super excited for HSC!
good vibes only
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EPT
