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On June 23 2022 16:38 dbRic1203 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2022 15:55 DIVINE_PEZZ wrote:
You guys are literally just arguing over which players are better when that's only half the argument.
Did we just forget about regional growth? Does it not matter anymore now that EU players have had region lock benefit them? We can just forget about the rest of the regions right?
OCE/TW/CHINA/LAM aren't going to improve if they're given no opportunities to play in events and no potential of making a career out of pro gaming.
ESL may as well be called European Simp League. Oh no, the shock, the horror, lesser skilled regions were given 1 qualifier slot to a premier tournament! Problem is the other regions are NOT growing Especially OCE feels like a wasteland whenever there is no DH Regional going on. No one even bothers to Play in any of the weekly Cups, it s only the Europeans, Koreans and a few NA/LA players in there. Every other month or so also Nice or Time. But I can t recall a Single weekly with a Single Oce Player in there. Feel free to prove me wrong.
Pezz not responding is hopefully, because he grinds some games in preperation for this weekends ESL KR weekly?
I would gladly cheer for him there
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On June 23 2022 16:38 dbRic1203 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2022 15:55 DIVINE_PEZZ wrote:
You guys are literally just arguing over which players are better when that's only half the argument.
Did we just forget about regional growth? Does it not matter anymore now that EU players have had region lock benefit them? We can just forget about the rest of the regions right?
OCE/TW/CHINA/LAM aren't going to improve if they're given no opportunities to play in events and no potential of making a career out of pro gaming.
ESL may as well be called European Simp League. Oh no, the shock, the horror, lesser skilled regions were given 1 qualifier slot to a premier tournament! Problem is the other regions are NOT growing Especially OCE feels like a wasteland whenever there is no DH Regional going on. No one even bothers to Play in any of the weekly Cups, it s only the Europeans, Koreans and a few NA/LA players in there. Every other month or so also Nice or Time. But I can t recall a Single weekly with a Single Oce Player in there. Feel free to prove me wrong.
Well if you're from Australia you're literally forced onto 250ms+ ping to even play the NA weekly. It's forced Central server, despite the fact that Aus/EU both get 180ms to West. Not to mention its on during work hours. You expect people to quit their jobs to play in a weekly on 300ms?
The unfair ping situation is something I've already expressed my frustrations with.
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Too bad, no Rogue, Maru and also Cure, Trap. I guess I may have to skip watching whole tournament unless Serral booted out early. Putting all aside, I would love to see Clem or herO taking a crown instead.
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On June 24 2022 01:11 swarminfestor wrote:
Too bad, no Rogue, Maru and also Cure, Trap. I guess I may have to skip watching whole tournament unless Serral booted out early. Putting all aside, I would love to see Clem or herO taking a crown instead.
Rogue , Trap and Cure won't be at any tournament outside of Korea
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what I said instead of actually quoting what I said and disagree with the statement I called out someone as "not cool" or giving the impression I didn't like a particular player.
I discovered there's a PM feature. Let's take it there.
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First major international event and we have 3 NA players in the top 16 yet they supposedly only deserve 2 in the ro32 of HSC. Scarlett and Astrea placed higher in Valencia than Mana, Harstem, Spirit, uThermal Shadown, Showtime, Ptitdrogo, and they even placed equal to Lambo. Only 3 EU players are going to end up doing better than them (barring a miracle from HM). Neeb is alive and in the top 8. Even Trigger took a top 32 placement. Hopefully this distribution is reconsidered for HSC XXII.
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On July 03 2022 02:51 JJH777 wrote:
First major international event and we have 3 NA players in the top 16 yet they supposedly only deserve 2 in the ro32 of HSC. Scarlett and Astrea placed higher in Valencia than Mana, Harstem, Spirit, uThermal Shadown, Showtime, Ptitdrogo, and they even placed equal to Lambo. Only 3 EU players are going to end up doing better than them (barring a miracle from HM). Neeb is alive and in the top 8. Even Trigger took a top 32 placement. Hopefully this distribution is reconsidered for HSC XXII.
Two things:
1) I will adress this even though I could ignore it but I prefer to engage with the community. I hope this holds some value here.
2) I wrote a pretty long reply but I think this will be better since I don't think you would take the long reply as neutral so here is my answer to you.
a) I already mentioned previously that limiting spots for Korea is what I am looking to most since a lot of playere retired or can't travel.
b) I already mentioned previously that those spots would potentially go towards NA.
c) judging performance based on one tournament isn't good.
Ro16 for Astrea meant 2-0 NightMare/1-2 Creator/2-1 NightMare/ 3-0Meomaika
Ro16 for Elazer meant 0-2 Neeb/1-2 ByuN//2-1 Kelazhur/3-0 Solar
This isn't to judge either of them but simply give a statement about how much a Ro16/Ro8+ performance can vary.
3) I didn't discredit NA talent when adressing Scarlett vs top 10 EU - I simply chose to rate her by her often shakyness. This means I rate her insanely high in peak and not as high when she struggles. I find that is a pretty fair estimate.
Conclusion: As mentioned I want to increase spots but certainly not a by a big margin. SpeCial for example comes (usually) over LA. Some players are exchangable EU/NA. My main goal would be global qualifiers and have that solve itself.
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On July 03 2022 05:04 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2022 02:51 JJH777 wrote:
First major international event and we have 3 NA players in the top 16 yet they supposedly only deserve 2 in the ro32 of HSC. Scarlett and Astrea placed higher in Valencia than Mana, Harstem, Spirit, uThermal Shadown, Showtime, Ptitdrogo, and they even placed equal to Lambo. Only 3 EU players are going to end up doing better than them (barring a miracle from HM). Neeb is alive and in the top 8. Even Trigger took a top 32 placement. Hopefully this distribution is reconsidered for HSC XXII. Two things: 1) I will adress this even though I could ignore it but I prefer to engage with the community. I hope this holds some value here. 2) I wrote a pretty long reply but I think this will be better since I don't think you would take the long reply as neutral so here is my answer to you. a) I already mentioned previously that limiting spots for Korea is what I am looking to most since a lot of playere retired or can't travel. b) I already mentioned previously that those spots would potentially go towards NA. c) judging performance based on one tournament isn't good. Ro16 for Astrea meant 2-0 NightMare/1-2 Creator/2-1 NightMare/ 3-0Meomaika Ro16 for Elazer meant 0-2 Neeb/1-2 ByuN//2-1 Kelazhur/3-0 Solar This isn't to judge either of them but simply give a statement about how much a Ro16/Ro8+ performance can vary. 3) I didn't discredit NA talent when adressing Scarlett vs top 10 EU - I simply chose to rate her by her often shakyness. This means I rate her insanely high in peak and not as high when she struggles. I find that is a pretty fair estimate. Conclusion: As mentioned I want to increase spots but certainly not a by a big margin. SpeCial for example comes (usually) over LA. Some players are exchangable EU/NA. My main goal would be global qualifiers and have that solve itself.
Limiting from Korea with 12 rather than EU with 14 is just as bad. KR only had 10 notable names at Valencia and they all did well.
You say it's judging performance based on one event but it's just the latest in a long string of evidence which was discounted for being old results. There's a ton of evidence that's already been brought up on this thread that EU does not deserve 14 slots in a 32 player global event. They would maybe get that with low KR participation and removing the weaker region slots but that's about it and even in that scenario they wouldn't have 14 every time. Basically every global event with open qualifiers from the last few years along with the season finals support this. Aligulac rankings agree. Now Valencia as well.
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On July 03 2022 07:17 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2022 05:04 NarutO wrote:On July 03 2022 02:51 JJH777 wrote:
First major international event and we have 3 NA players in the top 16 yet they supposedly only deserve 2 in the ro32 of HSC. Scarlett and Astrea placed higher in Valencia than Mana, Harstem, Spirit, uThermal Shadown, Showtime, Ptitdrogo, and they even placed equal to Lambo. Only 3 EU players are going to end up doing better than them (barring a miracle from HM). Neeb is alive and in the top 8. Even Trigger took a top 32 placement. Hopefully this distribution is reconsidered for HSC XXII. Two things: 1) I will adress this even though I could ignore it but I prefer to engage with the community. I hope this holds some value here. 2) I wrote a pretty long reply but I think this will be better since I don't think you would take the long reply as neutral so here is my answer to you. a) I already mentioned previously that limiting spots for Korea is what I am looking to most since a lot of playere retired or can't travel. b) I already mentioned previously that those spots would potentially go towards NA. c) judging performance based on one tournament isn't good. Ro16 for Astrea meant 2-0 NightMare/1-2 Creator/2-1 NightMare/ 3-0Meomaika Ro16 for Elazer meant 0-2 Neeb/1-2 ByuN//2-1 Kelazhur/3-0 Solar This isn't to judge either of them but simply give a statement about how much a Ro16/Ro8+ performance can vary. 3) I didn't discredit NA talent when adressing Scarlett vs top 10 EU - I simply chose to rate her by her often shakyness. This means I rate her insanely high in peak and not as high when she struggles. I find that is a pretty fair estimate. Conclusion: As mentioned I want to increase spots but certainly not a by a big margin. SpeCial for example comes (usually) over LA. Some players are exchangable EU/NA. My main goal would be global qualifiers and have that solve itself. Limiting from Korea with 12 rather than EU with 14 is just as bad. KR only had 10 notable names at Valencia and they all did well. You say it's judging performance based on one event but it's just the latest in a long string of evidence which was discounted for being old results. There's a ton of evidence that's already been brought up on this thread that EU does not deserve 14 slots in a 32 player global event. They would maybe get that with low KR participation and removing the weaker region slots but that's about it and even in that scenario they wouldn't have 14 every time. Basically every global event with open qualifiers from the last few years along with the season finals support this. Aligulac rankings agree. Now Valencia as well.
Bring up a slot number for NA then
Maru and Dark dont participate in HSC so they kinda get cut too. It doesnt matter how many good potential is in the region if the players dont want to or cannot play.
With the players who participated in Korea you can probably do:
1 OCE
1 TW/HK
2 CN
1 LatAm
10 KR
5 NA
12 EU
I do not think you could argue a 4th+5th slot of NA vs 13 and 14 of EU If I am honest. You have ~7-8 players that are equal or better to your best NA players. Best NA being Neeb, Astrea and Scarlett.
After that there is plenty. Nina, Trigger, Future, DisK and Vindicta probably the next in line and you cant say with a straight face that those are better than EU Players that come after the top players such as SKillous, Spirit, PtitDrogo, (retired) uThermal so at this point its "how you want to split spots".
If this would be an NA tournament I could nearly promise it is the above mentioned split but this is a European based tournament.
Also please dont forget If you are not top 4 in Europe you dont go to events or have as many chances cause its either invite and you dont get invited or you dont qualify. You get into the spotlight quicker in NA as the region has less depth. (Are you argueing here too?)
In a perfect world as I said I would do full global qualifiers but I think to see where we are going I will try to give minimum slots to each region (1,1,1,1,2,6,12 iirc) and try to have 8 slots via global If I can manage or thats allowed. As you can see this is already pretty predetermined and pushed towards Korea which with current travel reatriction and retirement doesn't feel correct.
- naruto
Edit: with 50% of the slots blocked for Korea and 4 for TW/HK , LatAm, OCE and CN this leaves 16 Slots Open.
In my book there are reasonable calls:
Astrea, Scarlett, Neeb,
Reynor, Serral, Clem, HeroMarine, Lambo, Showtime, Elazer
Can we agree there? This leaves 6 slots. Tell me how you would split them or how you see it. I am interested.
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On July 03 2022 08:24 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2022 07:17 JJH777 wrote:On July 03 2022 05:04 NarutO wrote:On July 03 2022 02:51 JJH777 wrote:
First major international event and we have 3 NA players in the top 16 yet they supposedly only deserve 2 in the ro32 of HSC. Scarlett and Astrea placed higher in Valencia than Mana, Harstem, Spirit, uThermal Shadown, Showtime, Ptitdrogo, and they even placed equal to Lambo. Only 3 EU players are going to end up doing better than them (barring a miracle from HM). Neeb is alive and in the top 8. Even Trigger took a top 32 placement. Hopefully this distribution is reconsidered for HSC XXII. Two things: 1) I will adress this even though I could ignore it but I prefer to engage with the community. I hope this holds some value here. 2) I wrote a pretty long reply but I think this will be better since I don't think you would take the long reply as neutral so here is my answer to you. a) I already mentioned previously that limiting spots for Korea is what I am looking to most since a lot of playere retired or can't travel. b) I already mentioned previously that those spots would potentially go towards NA. c) judging performance based on one tournament isn't good. Ro16 for Astrea meant 2-0 NightMare/1-2 Creator/2-1 NightMare/ 3-0Meomaika Ro16 for Elazer meant 0-2 Neeb/1-2 ByuN//2-1 Kelazhur/3-0 Solar This isn't to judge either of them but simply give a statement about how much a Ro16/Ro8+ performance can vary. 3) I didn't discredit NA talent when adressing Scarlett vs top 10 EU - I simply chose to rate her by her often shakyness. This means I rate her insanely high in peak and not as high when she struggles. I find that is a pretty fair estimate. Conclusion: As mentioned I want to increase spots but certainly not a by a big margin. SpeCial for example comes (usually) over LA. Some players are exchangable EU/NA. My main goal would be global qualifiers and have that solve itself. Limiting from Korea with 12 rather than EU with 14 is just as bad. KR only had 10 notable names at Valencia and they all did well. You say it's judging performance based on one event but it's just the latest in a long string of evidence which was discounted for being old results. There's a ton of evidence that's already been brought up on this thread that EU does not deserve 14 slots in a 32 player global event. They would maybe get that with low KR participation and removing the weaker region slots but that's about it and even in that scenario they wouldn't have 14 every time. Basically every global event with open qualifiers from the last few years along with the season finals support this. Aligulac rankings agree. Now Valencia as well. Bring up a slot number for NA then Maru and Dark dont participate in HSC so they kinda get cut too. It doesnt matter how many good potential is in the region if the players dont want to or cannot play. With the players who participated in Korea you can probably do: 1 OCE 1 TW/HK 2 CN 1 LatAm 10 KR 5 NA 12 EU I do not think you could argue a 4th+5th slot of NA vs 13 and 14 of EU If I am honest. You have ~7-8 players that are equal or better to your best NA players. Best NA being Neeb, Astrea and Scarlett. After that there is plenty. Nina, Trigger, Future, DisK and Vindicta probably the next in line and you cant say with a straight face that those are better than EU Players that come after the top players such as SKillous, Spirit, PtitDrogo, (retired) uThermal so at this point its "how you want to split spots". If this would be an NA tournament I could nearly promise it is the above mentioned split but this is a European based tournament. Also please dont forget If you are not top 4 in Europe you dont go to events or have as many chances cause its either invite and you dont get invited or you dont qualify. You get into the spotlight quicker in NA as the region has less depth. (Are you argueing here too?) In a perfect world as I said I would do full global qualifiers but I think to see where we are going I will try to give minimum slots to each region (1,1,1,1,2,6,12 iirc) and try to have 8 slots via global If I can manage or thats allowed. As you can see this is already pretty predetermined and pushed towards Korea which with current travel reatriction and retirement doesn't feel correct. - naruto Edit: with 50% of the slots blocked for Korea and 4 for TW/HK , LatAm, OCE and CN this leaves 16 Slots Open. In my book there are reasonable calls: Astrea, Scarlett, Neeb, Reynor, Serral, Clem, HeroMarine, Lambo, Showtime, Elazer Can we agree there? This leaves 6 slots. Tell me how you would split them or how you see it. I am interested.
I don't disagree with the idea that it is easier for NA players to get seeds to things like world championships and season finals and thus a few upsets can become a big result for them. I don't think that makes any difference for fully open or open bracket events though and I looked through a bunch (TSL, Asus, next, last chance) before making my initial post and unless I missed an event I could not find a single example of EU taking up a proportion of 14/32 or 7/16 (for the smaller events). EU's relative strength has increased since all of those events due to KR retirements but that is somewhat counteracted by Maxpax not participating in offline events and 14/32 still seems like too much since in most of those events EU was only around 10-11 for the 32 player ones and 4-5 for the 16 player ones.
I agree that the 4th of NA is worse than the rank 13 (14 without Maxpax) EU player. I don't think it's a massive difference though. I don't have any trouble seeing trigger taking a bo3 off the players you mentioned. Aligulac gives them a 40%+ shot vs most of them.
Aside from the global qualifier option you mentioned I think 12 KR, 12 EU, 1 each for the 3 other regions, 3 for NA, 2 for CN. (depending on travel issues) would be fair. This is similar to a global qualifier but I think the second CN slot being an open qualifier that only allows non KR/EU regions to participate would produce the highest level non KR/EU player with the best upset potential.
If Maxpax starts playing offline and the KR situation with players like Maru/Dark/Rogue/Trap stays the same I could see taking a slot from KR and giving it to EU. As of right now though even without those 4 the 12th ranked KR is still very close or better than the 12th ranked EU. That would be someone like Ryung who got top 12 in Katowice followed it up with a top 10 in GSL.
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On July 03 2022 08:24 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2022 07:17 JJH777 wrote:On July 03 2022 05:04 NarutO wrote:On July 03 2022 02:51 JJH777 wrote:
First major international event and we have 3 NA players in the top 16 yet they supposedly only deserve 2 in the ro32 of HSC. Scarlett and Astrea placed higher in Valencia than Mana, Harstem, Spirit, uThermal Shadown, Showtime, Ptitdrogo, and they even placed equal to Lambo. Only 3 EU players are going to end up doing better than them (barring a miracle from HM). Neeb is alive and in the top 8. Even Trigger took a top 32 placement. Hopefully this distribution is reconsidered for HSC XXII. Two things: 1) I will adress this even though I could ignore it but I prefer to engage with the community. I hope this holds some value here. 2) I wrote a pretty long reply but I think this will be better since I don't think you would take the long reply as neutral so here is my answer to you. a) I already mentioned previously that limiting spots for Korea is what I am looking to most since a lot of playere retired or can't travel. b) I already mentioned previously that those spots would potentially go towards NA. c) judging performance based on one tournament isn't good. Ro16 for Astrea meant 2-0 NightMare/1-2 Creator/2-1 NightMare/ 3-0Meomaika Ro16 for Elazer meant 0-2 Neeb/1-2 ByuN//2-1 Kelazhur/3-0 Solar This isn't to judge either of them but simply give a statement about how much a Ro16/Ro8+ performance can vary. 3) I didn't discredit NA talent when adressing Scarlett vs top 10 EU - I simply chose to rate her by her often shakyness. This means I rate her insanely high in peak and not as high when she struggles. I find that is a pretty fair estimate. Conclusion: As mentioned I want to increase spots but certainly not a by a big margin. SpeCial for example comes (usually) over LA. Some players are exchangable EU/NA. My main goal would be global qualifiers and have that solve itself. Limiting from Korea with 12 rather than EU with 14 is just as bad. KR only had 10 notable names at Valencia and they all did well. You say it's judging performance based on one event but it's just the latest in a long string of evidence which was discounted for being old results. There's a ton of evidence that's already been brought up on this thread that EU does not deserve 14 slots in a 32 player global event. They would maybe get that with low KR participation and removing the weaker region slots but that's about it and even in that scenario they wouldn't have 14 every time. Basically every global event with open qualifiers from the last few years along with the season finals support this. Aligulac rankings agree. Now Valencia as well. Bring up a slot number for NA then Maru and Dark dont participate in HSC so they kinda get cut too. It doesnt matter how many good potential is in the region if the players dont want to or cannot play. With the players who participated in Korea you can probably do: 1 OCE 1 TW/HK 2 CN 1 LatAm 10 KR 5 NA 12 EU I do not think you could argue a 4th+5th slot of NA vs 13 and 14 of EU If I am honest. You have ~7-8 players that are equal or better to your best NA players. Best NA being Neeb, Astrea and Scarlett. After that there is plenty. Nina, Trigger, Future, DisK and Vindicta probably the next in line and you cant say with a straight face that those are better than EU Players that come after the top players such as SKillous, Spirit, PtitDrogo, (retired) uThermal so at this point its "how you want to split spots". If this would be an NA tournament I could nearly promise it is the above mentioned split but this is a European based tournament. Also please dont forget If you are not top 4 in Europe you dont go to events or have as many chances cause its either invite and you dont get invited or you dont qualify. You get into the spotlight quicker in NA as the region has less depth. (Are you argueing here too?) In a perfect world as I said I would do full global qualifiers but I think to see where we are going I will try to give minimum slots to each region (1,1,1,1,2,6,12 iirc) and try to have 8 slots via global If I can manage or thats allowed. As you can see this is already pretty predetermined and pushed towards Korea which with current travel reatriction and retirement doesn't feel correct. - naruto Edit: with 50% of the slots blocked for Korea and 4 for TW/HK , LatAm, OCE and CN this leaves 16 Slots Open. In my book there are reasonable calls: Astrea, Scarlett, Neeb, Reynor, Serral, Clem, HeroMarine, Lambo, Showtime, Elazer Can we agree there? This leaves 6 slots. Tell me how you would split them or how you see it. I am interested.
- i think 3 NA/13 EU is a good split for an european offline tournament. 2 NA region / 2 NA server works too.
- 24/32 EU+KR is a good target for tournaments that grant ept points. 26/32 or 28/32 is too high
- moving one KR slot to CN (for a total of 2 CN slots) is justifiable based on viewership numbers. although there's no existing mechanism to monetize CN viewers
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On July 03 2022 16:09 warnull wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2022 08:24 TaKeTV wrote:On July 03 2022 07:17 JJH777 wrote:On July 03 2022 05:04 NarutO wrote:On July 03 2022 02:51 JJH777 wrote:
First major international event and we have 3 NA players in the top 16 yet they supposedly only deserve 2 in the ro32 of HSC. Scarlett and Astrea placed higher in Valencia than Mana, Harstem, Spirit, uThermal Shadown, Showtime, Ptitdrogo, and they even placed equal to Lambo. Only 3 EU players are going to end up doing better than them (barring a miracle from HM). Neeb is alive and in the top 8. Even Trigger took a top 32 placement. Hopefully this distribution is reconsidered for HSC XXII. Two things: 1) I will adress this even though I could ignore it but I prefer to engage with the community. I hope this holds some value here. 2) I wrote a pretty long reply but I think this will be better since I don't think you would take the long reply as neutral so here is my answer to you. a) I already mentioned previously that limiting spots for Korea is what I am looking to most since a lot of playere retired or can't travel. b) I already mentioned previously that those spots would potentially go towards NA. c) judging performance based on one tournament isn't good. Ro16 for Astrea meant 2-0 NightMare/1-2 Creator/2-1 NightMare/ 3-0Meomaika Ro16 for Elazer meant 0-2 Neeb/1-2 ByuN//2-1 Kelazhur/3-0 Solar This isn't to judge either of them but simply give a statement about how much a Ro16/Ro8+ performance can vary. 3) I didn't discredit NA talent when adressing Scarlett vs top 10 EU - I simply chose to rate her by her often shakyness. This means I rate her insanely high in peak and not as high when she struggles. I find that is a pretty fair estimate. Conclusion: As mentioned I want to increase spots but certainly not a by a big margin. SpeCial for example comes (usually) over LA. Some players are exchangable EU/NA. My main goal would be global qualifiers and have that solve itself. Limiting from Korea with 12 rather than EU with 14 is just as bad. KR only had 10 notable names at Valencia and they all did well. You say it's judging performance based on one event but it's just the latest in a long string of evidence which was discounted for being old results. There's a ton of evidence that's already been brought up on this thread that EU does not deserve 14 slots in a 32 player global event. They would maybe get that with low KR participation and removing the weaker region slots but that's about it and even in that scenario they wouldn't have 14 every time. Basically every global event with open qualifiers from the last few years along with the season finals support this. Aligulac rankings agree. Now Valencia as well. Bring up a slot number for NA then Maru and Dark dont participate in HSC so they kinda get cut too. It doesnt matter how many good potential is in the region if the players dont want to or cannot play. With the players who participated in Korea you can probably do: 1 OCE 1 TW/HK 2 CN 1 LatAm 10 KR 5 NA 12 EU I do not think you could argue a 4th+5th slot of NA vs 13 and 14 of EU If I am honest. You have ~7-8 players that are equal or better to your best NA players. Best NA being Neeb, Astrea and Scarlett. After that there is plenty. Nina, Trigger, Future, DisK and Vindicta probably the next in line and you cant say with a straight face that those are better than EU Players that come after the top players such as SKillous, Spirit, PtitDrogo, (retired) uThermal so at this point its "how you want to split spots". If this would be an NA tournament I could nearly promise it is the above mentioned split but this is a European based tournament. Also please dont forget If you are not top 4 in Europe you dont go to events or have as many chances cause its either invite and you dont get invited or you dont qualify. You get into the spotlight quicker in NA as the region has less depth. (Are you argueing here too?) In a perfect world as I said I would do full global qualifiers but I think to see where we are going I will try to give minimum slots to each region (1,1,1,1,2,6,12 iirc) and try to have 8 slots via global If I can manage or thats allowed. As you can see this is already pretty predetermined and pushed towards Korea which with current travel reatriction and retirement doesn't feel correct. - naruto Edit: with 50% of the slots blocked for Korea and 4 for TW/HK , LatAm, OCE and CN this leaves 16 Slots Open. In my book there are reasonable calls: Astrea, Scarlett, Neeb, Reynor, Serral, Clem, HeroMarine, Lambo, Showtime, Elazer Can we agree there? This leaves 6 slots. Tell me how you would split them or how you see it. I am interested. - i think 3 NA/13 EU is a good split for an european offline tournament. 2 NA region / 2 NA server works too. - 24/32 EU+KR is a good target for tournaments that grant ept points. 26/32 or 28/32 is too high - moving one KR slot to CN (for a total of 2 CN slots) is justifiable based on viewership numbers. although there's no existing mechanism to monetize CN viewers
KR required mininum is 12 :/
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On July 03 2022 16:29 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2022 16:09 warnull wrote:On July 03 2022 08:24 TaKeTV wrote:On July 03 2022 07:17 JJH777 wrote:On July 03 2022 05:04 NarutO wrote:On July 03 2022 02:51 JJH777 wrote:
First major international event and we have 3 NA players in the top 16 yet they supposedly only deserve 2 in the ro32 of HSC. Scarlett and Astrea placed higher in Valencia than Mana, Harstem, Spirit, uThermal Shadown, Showtime, Ptitdrogo, and they even placed equal to Lambo. Only 3 EU players are going to end up doing better than them (barring a miracle from HM). Neeb is alive and in the top 8. Even Trigger took a top 32 placement. Hopefully this distribution is reconsidered for HSC XXII. Two things: 1) I will adress this even though I could ignore it but I prefer to engage with the community. I hope this holds some value here. 2) I wrote a pretty long reply but I think this will be better since I don't think you would take the long reply as neutral so here is my answer to you. a) I already mentioned previously that limiting spots for Korea is what I am looking to most since a lot of playere retired or can't travel. b) I already mentioned previously that those spots would potentially go towards NA. c) judging performance based on one tournament isn't good. Ro16 for Astrea meant 2-0 NightMare/1-2 Creator/2-1 NightMare/ 3-0Meomaika Ro16 for Elazer meant 0-2 Neeb/1-2 ByuN//2-1 Kelazhur/3-0 Solar This isn't to judge either of them but simply give a statement about how much a Ro16/Ro8+ performance can vary. 3) I didn't discredit NA talent when adressing Scarlett vs top 10 EU - I simply chose to rate her by her often shakyness. This means I rate her insanely high in peak and not as high when she struggles. I find that is a pretty fair estimate. Conclusion: As mentioned I want to increase spots but certainly not a by a big margin. SpeCial for example comes (usually) over LA. Some players are exchangable EU/NA. My main goal would be global qualifiers and have that solve itself. Limiting from Korea with 12 rather than EU with 14 is just as bad. KR only had 10 notable names at Valencia and they all did well. You say it's judging performance based on one event but it's just the latest in a long string of evidence which was discounted for being old results. There's a ton of evidence that's already been brought up on this thread that EU does not deserve 14 slots in a 32 player global event. They would maybe get that with low KR participation and removing the weaker region slots but that's about it and even in that scenario they wouldn't have 14 every time. Basically every global event with open qualifiers from the last few years along with the season finals support this. Aligulac rankings agree. Now Valencia as well. Bring up a slot number for NA then Maru and Dark dont participate in HSC so they kinda get cut too. It doesnt matter how many good potential is in the region if the players dont want to or cannot play. With the players who participated in Korea you can probably do: 1 OCE 1 TW/HK 2 CN 1 LatAm 10 KR 5 NA 12 EU I do not think you could argue a 4th+5th slot of NA vs 13 and 14 of EU If I am honest. You have ~7-8 players that are equal or better to your best NA players. Best NA being Neeb, Astrea and Scarlett. After that there is plenty. Nina, Trigger, Future, DisK and Vindicta probably the next in line and you cant say with a straight face that those are better than EU Players that come after the top players such as SKillous, Spirit, PtitDrogo, (retired) uThermal so at this point its "how you want to split spots". If this would be an NA tournament I could nearly promise it is the above mentioned split but this is a European based tournament. Also please dont forget If you are not top 4 in Europe you dont go to events or have as many chances cause its either invite and you dont get invited or you dont qualify. You get into the spotlight quicker in NA as the region has less depth. (Are you argueing here too?) In a perfect world as I said I would do full global qualifiers but I think to see where we are going I will try to give minimum slots to each region (1,1,1,1,2,6,12 iirc) and try to have 8 slots via global If I can manage or thats allowed. As you can see this is already pretty predetermined and pushed towards Korea which with current travel reatriction and retirement doesn't feel correct. - naruto Edit: with 50% of the slots blocked for Korea and 4 for TW/HK , LatAm, OCE and CN this leaves 16 Slots Open. In my book there are reasonable calls: Astrea, Scarlett, Neeb, Reynor, Serral, Clem, HeroMarine, Lambo, Showtime, Elazer Can we agree there? This leaves 6 slots. Tell me how you would split them or how you see it. I am interested. - i think 3 NA/13 EU is a good split for an european offline tournament. 2 NA region / 2 NA server works too. - 24/32 EU+KR is a good target for tournaments that grant ept points. 26/32 or 28/32 is too high - moving one KR slot to CN (for a total of 2 CN slots) is justifiable based on viewership numbers. although there's no existing mechanism to monetize CN viewers KR required mininum is 12 :/ Well that's awkward with how shallow the scene is and how various players can't easily leave the country due to their age.
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Meomaika not be able to join is so sad, I would love to see how he make Lambo and Harstem tremble in fear with his Hydra.
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lol, I dont think its much a "choice" between GSL Ro.6 and HSC for KR players, no disrespect to you guys. So that means herO and Ragnarok are pretty much the ones that will be missing, with Creator, Bunny, DRG and Zoun are on the watch. And I assume the replacement players shall be chosen from KR players pool?
Also I guess the main schedule conflict is actually because of DH Valencia? That push the GSL 1-week longer and clash with HSC, and then you cant push HSC another week because of TSL9? Although I think TSL9 could shift their schedule as well considering the first portion of the tournament are online.
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On July 08 2022 22:34 tigera6 wrote:
lol, I dont think its much a "choice" between GSL Ro.6 and HSC for KR players, no disrespect to you guys. So that means herO and Ragnarok are pretty much the ones that will be missing, with Creator, Bunny, DRG and Zoun are on the watch. And I assume the replacement players shall be chosen from KR players pool?
Also I guess the main schedule conflict is actually because of DH Valencia? That push the GSL 1-week longer and clash with HSC, and then you cant push HSC another week because of TSL9? Although I think TSL9 could shift their schedule as well considering the first portion of the tournament are online.
We cannot push an offline tournament yes. This is just an unfortunate scenario and all parties involved seemingly missed this conflict before it was too late.
We don't take it as offence. GSL is more prestigious and more important to Koreans as well as has bigger overall money included. Thats why we are sad to "make them choose". Obviously especially Creator loves HSC and no player should ahve to pick. As mentioned this unfortunately is our case now :C
I assume Maru/Dark will go through which means - if you doesnt make it - 4 players will drop. The replacements from the Korean region are Maru/Dark who obviously will play GSL. After that it gets way more complex and I am too busy right now to break it down publicly
- NarutO
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Canada8989 Posts
On July 08 2022 22:43 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2022 22:34 tigera6 wrote:
lol, I dont think its much a "choice" between GSL Ro.6 and HSC for KR players, no disrespect to you guys. So that means herO and Ragnarok are pretty much the ones that will be missing, with Creator, Bunny, DRG and Zoun are on the watch. And I assume the replacement players shall be chosen from KR players pool?
Also I guess the main schedule conflict is actually because of DH Valencia? That push the GSL 1-week longer and clash with HSC, and then you cant push HSC another week because of TSL9? Although I think TSL9 could shift their schedule as well considering the first portion of the tournament are online. We cannot push an offline tournament yes. This is just an unfortunate scenario and all parties involved seemingly missed this conflict before it was too late. We don't take it as offence. GSL is more prestigious and more important to Koreans as well as has bigger overall money included. Thats why we are sad to "make them choose". Obviously especially Creator loves HSC and no player should ahve to pick. As mentioned this unfortunately is our case now :C I assume Maru/Dark will go through which means - if you doesnt make it - 4 players will drop. The replacements from the Korean region are Maru/Dark who obviously will play GSL. After that it gets way more complex and I am too busy right now to break it down publicly - NarutO
It's all good Naruto, thanks a lot for the hard work as always, it should be a blast!
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EPT
