On February 27 2022 23:14 Xain0n wrote: From now on when I'll look at Serral I'll see a GOAT.
Top 3-4 for sure now
I think at least 4, but him vs. innovation would be super interesting becuase Inno never got a world championship. I think him and inno are tied for 3 - but I could see arguments for either.
Rogue and Maru still the two GOATS and roughly tied with each other imo.
But the absolutely phenomenal thing is Rogue, Maru, and Serral are all still making history. This conversation isn't over yet and any of them could have incredible runs in the future that continue to shift the discussion.
Inno played in an insanely more competetive era than those other 3. He's easily the GOAT.
Inno played a good chunk of that era to be fair.
I wouldn’t really count it against him though, it was an open secret his motivation had long departed.
One thing that maybe would is it feels like Inno made hay with stellar mechanics and when the combo of his shape dropped and the rest of the scene’s level rose, he was less competitive.
Serral and Rogue, wouldn’t say they’re necessarily better but they certainly feel more complete packages as players.
Between eras both of the game state itself and the changes in the scene’s structures, outside of a Wayne Gretsky type outlier I tend to think one can only be in the conversation as one of the greatest, and all those names are definitely in that conversation
Bonkers no Koreans won a single match from ro12 onward. I sort of wanted a Dark Serral finals or Maru Reynor. Gratz to Serral, but super cool to see Solar and BigGabe make it so far.
Probably the best tournament of all time imo, ridiculously entertaining and close matches.
On February 27 2022 23:14 Xain0n wrote: From now on when I'll look at Serral I'll see a GOAT.
Top 3-4 for sure now
I think at least 4, but him vs. innovation would be super interesting becuase Inno never got a world championship. I think him and inno are tied for 3 - but I could see arguments for either.
Rogue and Maru still the two GOATS and roughly tied with each other imo.
But the absolutely phenomenal thing is Rogue, Maru, and Serral are all still making history. This conversation isn't over yet and any of them could have incredible runs in the future that continue to shift the discussion.
Inno played in an insanely more competetive era than those other 3. He's easily the GOAT.
Yes, to me (and i'm sure to many others) Inno is the GOAT, given how he dominated for so long, during the peak era. There were a lot of tournament contenders at that time and the game got constantly balanced to prevent OP things so multiple championships were a more accurate representation of skills (rather than race). Now we only have Zerg champions, so in order to win championships you only need to be like the best out of 3-4 players.
1st Maru 2nd INno 3rd Rogue and finally 4th Serral This era is barely competitive and zerg has been so dominant Rogue and Serral resume aren’t comparable to kespa era
now what could be great is a small patch for the pvz protoss to motivate everyone and to revive the interest a bit because people are still leaving the ladder
On February 27 2022 23:14 Xain0n wrote: From now on when I'll look at Serral I'll see a GOAT.
Top 3-4 for sure now
I think at least 4, but him vs. innovation would be super interesting becuase Inno never got a world championship. I think him and inno are tied for 3 - but I could see arguments for either.
Rogue and Maru still the two GOATS and roughly tied with each other imo.
But the absolutely phenomenal thing is Rogue, Maru, and Serral are all still making history. This conversation isn't over yet and any of them could have incredible runs in the future that continue to shift the discussion.
Inno played in an insanely more competetive era than those other 3. He's easily the GOAT.
Yes, to me (and i'm sure to many others) Inno is the GOAT, given how he dominated for so long, during the peak era. There were a lot of tournament contenders at that time and the game got constantly balanced to prevent OP things so multiple championships were a more accurate representation of skills (rather than race). Now we only have Zerg champions, so in order to win championships you only need to be like the best out of 3-4 players.
1st Maru 2nd INno 3rd Rogue and finally 4th Serral This era is barely competitive and zerg has been so dominant Rogue and Serral resume aren’t comparable to kespa era
Marus successes, aside from OSL and proleague were also after the Kespa era though.
Good to see IEM Katowice finally break its finals curse. First actually good one in what seems like forever (soO winning doesn't count because that was just a good personal story; the games were bad)
On February 27 2022 23:14 Xain0n wrote: From now on when I'll look at Serral I'll see a GOAT.
Top 3-4 for sure now
I think at least 4, but him vs. innovation would be super interesting becuase Inno never got a world championship. I think him and inno are tied for 3 - but I could see arguments for either.
Rogue and Maru still the two GOATS and roughly tied with each other imo.
But the absolutely phenomenal thing is Rogue, Maru, and Serral are all still making history. This conversation isn't over yet and any of them could have incredible runs in the future that continue to shift the discussion.
Inno played in an insanely more competetive era than those other 3. He's easily the GOAT.
Yes, to me (and i'm sure to many others) Inno is the GOAT, given how he dominated for so long, during the peak era. There were a lot of tournament contenders at that time and the game got constantly balanced to prevent OP things so multiple championships were a more accurate representation of skills (rather than race). Now we only have Zerg champions, so in order to win championships you only need to be like the best out of 3-4 players.
1st Maru 2nd INno 3rd Rogue and finally 4th Serral This era is barely competitive and zerg has been so dominant Rogue and Serral resume aren’t comparable to kespa era
Marus successes, aside from OSL and proleague were also after the Kespa era though.
On February 27 2022 23:38 Waxangel wrote: Good to see IEM Katowice finally break its finals curse. First actually good one in what seems like forever (soO winning doesn't count because that was just a good personal story; the games were bad)
No Rogue and no Protoss have a lot to do with that, sadly its still a ZvZ.
On February 27 2022 23:38 Waxangel wrote: Good to see IEM Katowice finally break its finals curse. First actually good one in what seems like forever (soO winning doesn't count because that was just a good personal story; the games were bad)
On February 27 2022 23:38 Waxangel wrote: Good to see IEM Katowice finally break its finals curse. First actually good one in what seems like forever (soO winning doesn't count because that was just a good personal story; the games were bad)
A PvZ finals was bad? What have you been smoking today Wax?
On February 27 2022 23:14 Xain0n wrote: From now on when I'll look at Serral I'll see a GOAT.
Top 3-4 for sure now
I think at least 4, but him vs. innovation would be super interesting becuase Inno never got a world championship. I think him and inno are tied for 3 - but I could see arguments for either.
Rogue and Maru still the two GOATS and roughly tied with each other imo.
But the absolutely phenomenal thing is Rogue, Maru, and Serral are all still making history. This conversation isn't over yet and any of them could have incredible runs in the future that continue to shift the discussion.
Inno played in an insanely more competetive era than those other 3. He's easily the GOAT.
Yes, to me (and i'm sure to many others) Inno is the GOAT, given how he dominated for so long, during the peak era. There were a lot of tournament contenders at that time and the game got constantly balanced to prevent OP things so multiple championships were a more accurate representation of skills (rather than race). Now we only have Zerg champions, so in order to win championships you only need to be like the best out of 3-4 players.
1st Maru 2nd INno 3rd Rogue and finally 4th Serral This era is barely competitive and zerg has been so dominant Rogue and Serral resume aren’t comparable to kespa era
Marus successes, aside from OSL and proleague were also after the Kespa era though.
I mean, those were pretty important lol, also SSL
I forgot that SSL, yeah, but one individual title in 2013 and one in 2015 is a bit thin for a GOAT contender.
On February 27 2022 23:38 Waxangel wrote: Good to see IEM Katowice finally break its finals curse. First actually good one in what seems like forever (soO winning doesn't count because that was just a good personal story; the games were bad)
No Rogue and no Protoss have a lot to do with that, sadly its still a ZvZ.
ZvZ is a good matchup, I imagine I’m not alone in that it’s the sheer amount of it in the late stages of tournaments that is grating.
Thank god Protoss bowed out early tbh. I mean Serral didn’t even get to play his best matchup in playoffs and I’m quite happy with that state of affairs.
On February 27 2022 23:38 Waxangel wrote: Good to see IEM Katowice finally break its finals curse. First actually good one in what seems like forever (soO winning doesn't count because that was just a good personal story; the games were bad)
No Rogue and no Protoss have a lot to do with that, sadly its still a ZvZ.
ZvZ is a good matchup, I imagine I’m not alone in that it’s the sheer amount of it in the late stages of tournaments that is grating.
Thank god Protoss bowed out early tbh. I mean Serral didn’t even get to play his best matchup in playoffs and I’m quite happy with that state of affairs.
Unfortunately, good maps for ZvZ seem to be terrible maps for everything else. Now that mutalisks aren't that strong and silly allins are less prevalent, ZvZ looks like a great matchup once more; I'd willingly sacrifice that for a more balanced game overall, in any of case.
On February 27 2022 23:38 Waxangel wrote: Good to see IEM Katowice finally break its finals curse. First actually good one in what seems like forever (soO winning doesn't count because that was just a good personal story; the games were bad)
A PvZ finals was bad? What have you been smoking today Wax?
PvZ has always been a mess. It's arguably been the worst matchup at every stage of sc2
wol:archon nonsense vs bl/infestor and 2 base timings vs roaches hots: blink era into the disaster that was 2015... +2 blink/+3 blink, immortal and templar vs roaches or sometimes ultra infestor ling lotv: ling bane (2016) into ling bane hydra (2017) into zergs realizing how to win late game (also 17/18) and protoss dissapearing (poor stats)
On February 27 2022 23:38 Waxangel wrote: Good to see IEM Katowice finally break its finals curse. First actually good one in what seems like forever (soO winning doesn't count because that was just a good personal story; the games were bad)
No Rogue and no Protoss have a lot to do with that, sadly its still a ZvZ.
ZvZ is a good matchup, I imagine I’m not alone in that it’s the sheer amount of it in the late stages of tournaments that is grating.
Thank god Protoss bowed out early tbh. I mean Serral didn’t even get to play his best matchup in playoffs and I’m quite happy with that state of affairs.
The matchup itself isnt bad, comparing to PvZ and PvP, to me. My sentiment was on how things end almost exactly a we predicted before the tournament, with 5 Zerg in top 8, and we could have top 4 full of Zerg if Solar didnt forget his bane speed upgrade. Outside of Zerg players, Zest and Trap are not doing much, Clem is even in worse shape, and Maru just being Maru in the negative way. On top of that, we got one of the most favorable Zerg map pool in years for a Wolrd Championship. So yeah, a ZvZ final is the best we can get.
On February 27 2022 23:38 Waxangel wrote: Good to see IEM Katowice finally break its finals curse. First actually good one in what seems like forever (soO winning doesn't count because that was just a good personal story; the games were bad)
A PvZ finals was bad? What have you been smoking today Wax?
PvZ has always been a mess. It's arguably been the worst matchup at every stage of sc2
wol:archon nonsense vs bl/infestor and 2 base timings vs roaches hots: blink era into the disaster that was 2015... +2 blink/+3 blink, immortal and templar vs roaches or sometimes ultra infestor ling lotv: ling bane (2016) into ling bane hydra (2017) into zergs realizing how to win late game (also 17/18) and protoss dissapearing (poor stats)
PvZ was good for a while in 2018 or at least much better than it was both before and after in LoTV; Serral-Stats at GSL vs the World was amazing, for example.
EPT
