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On September 09 2019 18:17 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2019 14:51 Charoisaur wrote:On September 09 2019 13:49 Xitah wrote:
Why do we have to bring up GSL every time? Serral can win GSL, easily. He is 100% the best zerg in the world and very likely also the best player. Why would anyone doubt the chances of the best Zerg and/or the best player winning a GSL?
I know people bring up the preparation times in GSL that "but in GSL opponents prepare for you." Well, TY had a long time to prepare for Serral in GSL vs The World and he got stomped anyways. People had time to prepare for him in Blizzcon. If Serral had such a disadvantage in preparation matches, it would have showed it already, just like how Maru has shown his weakness in weekend tournaments. In any tournaments where they announce the bracket in advance, and your first match is against Serral, then you know you have to prepare for him, or else you shouldn't prepare at all. If WCS is so hard to win, why does Serral dominate WCS so hard but only wins a 3rd of non-region-locked tournaments (3 out of 9!! Hurrayy bonjwaaa!!!!)? Without checking, he placed top 4 in all of them I guess? And who won more than him?
In the last 2 years, he did 2 ro8 losing to soO and Scarlett, he lost in ro4 against Classic, Maru and Stats and lost 3 finals one against Inno, and two against Reynor. Meanwhile he won 2 gsl vs the world, 6 wcs, Blizzcon and two 2 hsc (with one counting as a PREMIER forgotten by deacon which actually makes 3 weekender wins with koreans in a row, in total it's 4 PREMIER with koreans and 5 tournaments overall with his second hsc).
That's insane regularity, especially considering weekenders can be supposed more volatile, he is the clear second best zerg ever for me. Not only because of his results but his play, he does everything right and is good in every aspect of the game. (Sth that soO always lacked...)
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On September 09 2019 18:43 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2019 17:30 Noa Greenini wrote:On September 09 2019 16:58 deacon.frost wrote:On September 09 2019 16:25 Noa Greenini wrote:On September 09 2019 16:09 deacon.frost wrote:On September 09 2019 15:23 Xitah wrote:On September 09 2019 14:48 Charoisaur wrote:
Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know. It's not true that "Rogue dominated weekeners harder". Serral:  Serral Rogue: RogueYou are adding sufficiently many quantifiers (1) winning (2) non-region-locked (3) non-invite-only (4) in a row to make a claim. That's definitely subjective. Ignore all the "non-region-locked" events if you want. Serral's results are more impressive than Rogue. But then again, the point is not that Serral in BONJWA[ or whatever. The point is that Serral is capable of winning a GSL, so participating in GSL is no longer such an interesting question. Here's a question, where do you think Serral would get eliminated in a GSL? R32 and R16 are almost like a weekener where you have to prepare for 3 people, so he's highly favored to make it to the play offs. Now, take the current playoffs and replace Dark with Serral. I would say he and Maru will be the top candidates to win. Then let him participate 3 times in GSL per year and he can win one. It's no longer a mystery. Edit: Also, nobody claimed that "WCS is so hard to win" so that point is entirely strawman. Rogue won in a row the following: IEM Shanghai GSL ST2 Blizzcon IEM WC Katowice Let's check Serral. GSL vs The World, Blizzcon... uhm, oh, damn, and GSL vs The world. Cool. Edit> Considering many Serral fanboys are saying that Code S is a different form of tournament and that's why Maru is so bad at weekenders(lulz), then we have to accept the fact this goes both ways. Since Code S is a different form of tournament and Serral has never shown anything to make us believe he could win. He's not capable. (well, I say we can't say as we don't know but since you're so sure I will change this to be so sure either  ) In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable. In the longterm? Sure, no question about that. But Rogue's peak is higher and up to this day better than Serral's whole career. 2 WC titles and 2 another big tournaments. In a row. It's one of the raesons of the stupid patch zerg article. In my opinion a peak isn't as impressive as consistency. Nobody was talking about that though The question was who dominated weekenders harder, Rogue or Serral So, uhm, yeah Show nested quote +On September 09 2019 17:21 Starcloud wrote:On September 09 2019 16:58 deacon.frost wrote:On September 09 2019 16:25 Noa Greenini wrote:
In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable. In the longterm? Sure, no question about that. But Rogue's peak is higher and up to this day better than Serral's whole career. 2 WC titles and 2 another big tournaments. In a row. It's one of the raesons of the stupid patch zerg article. Again, why arent HSC counted in ? Several Koreans participated and beaten there by Serral. And secondly, how in earth is it "better than Serral´s whole career" ? Thats just delusional. And you just have to see how he has done in other competitions too. He has been in top-4 in almost every tournament and most of them in finals or then lost only to the winner. Rogue had a short and good period of ruling, but its imo not comparable to Serral in any way. What goes to this forever discussion about GSL. Lets take this seasons top-8 for review compared their shot against Serral: GSL season 3 top-8: Dark, TY, Rogue, Zest, KeeN, Trap, Maru, Ragnarok Dark: Last time lost to Elazer, who is few classes below Serral. In current form, cant see Serral losing this. TY: They have fought few times recently and Serral outclassed TY both times. Rogue: Bit better version of Dark in ZvZ, but still would consider Raynor being bigger threat than Rogue tbh. Zest: Have fought few times(?). No match for Serral. KeeN: Havent seen him play, so its non-conclusive. However he propably isnt Maru/TY-caliber, so propably would get stomped as others. Trap: Again, they fought, Serral stomped. Ragnarok: He is Korean zerg. So nope. Maru: Well this is the only one debatable imo. But comparing the current form of them, at this moment I would give Serral around 80% chance to win. Maru is nowhere near his peak and Serral is a monster. And in addition for example Neeb made it to top-4 in GSL. Look how Serral treats him nowadays. GSL Season 2 top-8 were: Classic, soO, Trap, Innovation, Hurricane, Parting, herO, Dark. And from those, only Innovation can challenge Serral, when he has his lategame in form. And even then I think Serral would be a favorite. Or if you disagree, who of those could realistically beat Serral ? So, all-in-all, we can safely conclude that Serral has a high chance to win GSL if he participated. Even Koreans fear and dont want to face him anymore. Rogue has 2 consecutive World Championship titles. Serral has 1 WC title. Rogue has 4 big tournaments win in a row, Serral has 3 big tournament wins. Not in a row. Yes, Serral is better in being consistent over the last 2 years, Rogue had much better and higher peak, even more impressive. If some insist on naming Serral banjo and other fancy titles, we have to add them to all the "faceless" Koreans we skipped before. e.g. Innovation, Maru, Mvp, Life(muhehehe ), Rogue, sOs(3 WC titles), ByuN(another insane peak)... It's not as easy as it sounds, is it? Also the discussion was started by some post, read it. It's in the quote. That should solve the mistery of HSC. Edit> It would be quite funny to see Life named bonjwa just to remove this title for his crime Oh boy(by the BW standards he was the closest to this title because of 1) Starleague wins(Serral has none) 2) KeSPA era Korean elitists being evil again(and please don't use Artosis banjo naming, somebody else arleady pointed out in the previous threads he's not exactly saving them for the top players and he's using the title multiple times a year) )
You need to work on your thoroughness of research. It's pretty obvious that you're only looking at specific data points to prove your bias, and consequently overlooking important details. In between WCS Global 2017 and Katowice IEM, Rogue failed to make it out of the Ro32 in GSL S1. So it's 3 consecutive wins. If you count HSC Winter 2018 for Serral, which you should, Serral would also have 3 consecutive global wins.
However, this arbitrary definition that a "peak" entails consecutive tournament wins is just that—arbitrary. Tournament results are heavily based on chance, as everybody knows; the better/best player very often loses. GSL vs TW 2019 illustrates this better than anything else (no offense, Elazer). The single elimination format is the culprit.
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On September 09 2019 19:21 stilt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2019 18:17 Harris1st wrote:On September 09 2019 14:51 Charoisaur wrote:On September 09 2019 13:49 Xitah wrote:
Why do we have to bring up GSL every time? Serral can win GSL, easily. He is 100% the best zerg in the world and very likely also the best player. Why would anyone doubt the chances of the best Zerg and/or the best player winning a GSL?
I know people bring up the preparation times in GSL that "but in GSL opponents prepare for you." Well, TY had a long time to prepare for Serral in GSL vs The World and he got stomped anyways. People had time to prepare for him in Blizzcon. If Serral had such a disadvantage in preparation matches, it would have showed it already, just like how Maru has shown his weakness in weekend tournaments. In any tournaments where they announce the bracket in advance, and your first match is against Serral, then you know you have to prepare for him, or else you shouldn't prepare at all. If WCS is so hard to win, why does Serral dominate WCS so hard but only wins a 3rd of non-region-locked tournaments (3 out of 9!! Hurrayy bonjwaaa!!!!)? Without checking, he placed top 4 in all of them I guess? And who won more than him? In the last 2 years, he did 2 ro8 losing to soO and Scarlett, he lost in ro4 against Classic, Maru and Stats and lost 3 finals one against Inno, and two against Reynor. Meanwhile he won 2 gsl vs the world, 6 wcs, Blizzcon and two 2 hsc (with one counting as a PREMIER forgotten by deacon which actually makes 3 weekender wins with koreans in a row, in total it's 4 PREMIER with koreans and 5 tournaments overall with his second hsc). That's insane regularity, especially considering weekenders can be supposed more volatile, he is the clear second best zerg ever for me. Not only because of his results but his play, he does everything right and is good in every aspect of the game. (Sth that soO always lacked...)
We have 3 international tournaments left this year and I kinda expect Serral to take all of them (but I dunno the format for NationWars right now, so maybe that one is near impossible ^^' )
And if he does, he is the #1 Zerg to ever play this game IMO (even ahead of the one that should not be named)
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Northern Ireland26152 Posts
On September 09 2019 20:28 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2019 19:21 stilt wrote:On September 09 2019 18:17 Harris1st wrote:On September 09 2019 14:51 Charoisaur wrote:On September 09 2019 13:49 Xitah wrote:
Why do we have to bring up GSL every time? Serral can win GSL, easily. He is 100% the best zerg in the world and very likely also the best player. Why would anyone doubt the chances of the best Zerg and/or the best player winning a GSL?
I know people bring up the preparation times in GSL that "but in GSL opponents prepare for you." Well, TY had a long time to prepare for Serral in GSL vs The World and he got stomped anyways. People had time to prepare for him in Blizzcon. If Serral had such a disadvantage in preparation matches, it would have showed it already, just like how Maru has shown his weakness in weekend tournaments. In any tournaments where they announce the bracket in advance, and your first match is against Serral, then you know you have to prepare for him, or else you shouldn't prepare at all. If WCS is so hard to win, why does Serral dominate WCS so hard but only wins a 3rd of non-region-locked tournaments (3 out of 9!! Hurrayy bonjwaaa!!!!)? Without checking, he placed top 4 in all of them I guess? And who won more than him? In the last 2 years, he did 2 ro8 losing to soO and Scarlett, he lost in ro4 against Classic, Maru and Stats and lost 3 finals one against Inno, and two against Reynor. Meanwhile he won 2 gsl vs the world, 6 wcs, Blizzcon and two 2 hsc (with one counting as a PREMIER forgotten by deacon which actually makes 3 weekender wins with koreans in a row, in total it's 4 PREMIER with koreans and 5 tournaments overall with his second hsc). That's insane regularity, especially considering weekenders can be supposed more volatile, he is the clear second best zerg ever for me. Not only because of his results but his play, he does everything right and is good in every aspect of the game. (Sth that soO always lacked...) We have 3 international tournaments left this year and I kinda expect Serral to take all of them (but I dunno the format for NationWars right now, so maybe that one is near impossible ^^' ) And if he does, he is the #1 Zerg to ever play this game IMO (even ahead of the one that should not be named)
What’s the third out of interest? Blizzcon, Nation Wars and one other?
I think at this stage just from watching his games Serral’s if nothing else the most rounded and complete Zerg to play SC2. He’s top class in all 3 matchups and can switch gears stylistically better than others I can think of, at least without going back and pouring over VODs. Maybe not exactly as well, but if we’re segmenting the strengths of other Zergs, he can play really aggressively in a non cheese manner like Dark, can roll people with macro and mechanics like soO and has a scary lategame like Rogue. His in-game reads and starsense are scary as well, so he consistently makes the right calls too.
If there’s something that’s in the Zerg toolbox he finds a way to use it and use it well.
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On September 09 2019 20:33 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2019 20:28 Harris1st wrote:On September 09 2019 19:21 stilt wrote:On September 09 2019 18:17 Harris1st wrote:On September 09 2019 14:51 Charoisaur wrote:On September 09 2019 13:49 Xitah wrote:
Why do we have to bring up GSL every time? Serral can win GSL, easily. He is 100% the best zerg in the world and very likely also the best player. Why would anyone doubt the chances of the best Zerg and/or the best player winning a GSL?
I know people bring up the preparation times in GSL that "but in GSL opponents prepare for you." Well, TY had a long time to prepare for Serral in GSL vs The World and he got stomped anyways. People had time to prepare for him in Blizzcon. If Serral had such a disadvantage in preparation matches, it would have showed it already, just like how Maru has shown his weakness in weekend tournaments. In any tournaments where they announce the bracket in advance, and your first match is against Serral, then you know you have to prepare for him, or else you shouldn't prepare at all. If WCS is so hard to win, why does Serral dominate WCS so hard but only wins a 3rd of non-region-locked tournaments (3 out of 9!! Hurrayy bonjwaaa!!!!)? Without checking, he placed top 4 in all of them I guess? And who won more than him? In the last 2 years, he did 2 ro8 losing to soO and Scarlett, he lost in ro4 against Classic, Maru and Stats and lost 3 finals one against Inno, and two against Reynor. Meanwhile he won 2 gsl vs the world, 6 wcs, Blizzcon and two 2 hsc (with one counting as a PREMIER forgotten by deacon which actually makes 3 weekender wins with koreans in a row, in total it's 4 PREMIER with koreans and 5 tournaments overall with his second hsc). That's insane regularity, especially considering weekenders can be supposed more volatile, he is the clear second best zerg ever for me. Not only because of his results but his play, he does everything right and is good in every aspect of the game. (Sth that soO always lacked...) We have 3 international tournaments left this year and I kinda expect Serral to take all of them (but I dunno the format for NationWars right now, so maybe that one is near impossible ^^' ) And if he does, he is the #1 Zerg to ever play this game IMO (even ahead of the one that should not be named) What’s the third out of interest? Blizzcon, Nation Wars and one other? I think at this stage just from watching his games Serral’s if nothing else the most rounded and complete Zerg to play SC2. He’s top class in all 3 matchups and can switch gears stylistically better than others I can think of, at least without going back and pouring over VODs. Maybe not exactly as well, but if we’re segmenting the strengths of other Zergs, he can play really aggressively in a non cheese manner like Dark, can roll people with macro and mechanics like soO and has a scary lategame like Rogue. His in-game reads and starsense are scary as well, so he consistently makes the right calls too. If there’s something that’s in the Zerg toolbox he finds a way to use it and use it well.
The beloved HomeStoryCup of course! 20th anniversary, unfortunately not in Vegas (as was planned in the past) but in Berlin I think. Almost the same ^^
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Northern Ireland26152 Posts
On September 09 2019 21:10 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2019 20:33 Wombat_NI wrote:On September 09 2019 20:28 Harris1st wrote:On September 09 2019 19:21 stilt wrote:On September 09 2019 18:17 Harris1st wrote:On September 09 2019 14:51 Charoisaur wrote:On September 09 2019 13:49 Xitah wrote:
Why do we have to bring up GSL every time? Serral can win GSL, easily. He is 100% the best zerg in the world and very likely also the best player. Why would anyone doubt the chances of the best Zerg and/or the best player winning a GSL?
I know people bring up the preparation times in GSL that "but in GSL opponents prepare for you." Well, TY had a long time to prepare for Serral in GSL vs The World and he got stomped anyways. People had time to prepare for him in Blizzcon. If Serral had such a disadvantage in preparation matches, it would have showed it already, just like how Maru has shown his weakness in weekend tournaments. In any tournaments where they announce the bracket in advance, and your first match is against Serral, then you know you have to prepare for him, or else you shouldn't prepare at all. If WCS is so hard to win, why does Serral dominate WCS so hard but only wins a 3rd of non-region-locked tournaments (3 out of 9!! Hurrayy bonjwaaa!!!!)? Without checking, he placed top 4 in all of them I guess? And who won more than him? In the last 2 years, he did 2 ro8 losing to soO and Scarlett, he lost in ro4 against Classic, Maru and Stats and lost 3 finals one against Inno, and two against Reynor. Meanwhile he won 2 gsl vs the world, 6 wcs, Blizzcon and two 2 hsc (with one counting as a PREMIER forgotten by deacon which actually makes 3 weekender wins with koreans in a row, in total it's 4 PREMIER with koreans and 5 tournaments overall with his second hsc). That's insane regularity, especially considering weekenders can be supposed more volatile, he is the clear second best zerg ever for me. Not only because of his results but his play, he does everything right and is good in every aspect of the game. (Sth that soO always lacked...) We have 3 international tournaments left this year and I kinda expect Serral to take all of them (but I dunno the format for NationWars right now, so maybe that one is near impossible ^^' ) And if he does, he is the #1 Zerg to ever play this game IMO (even ahead of the one that should not be named) What’s the third out of interest? Blizzcon, Nation Wars and one other? I think at this stage just from watching his games Serral’s if nothing else the most rounded and complete Zerg to play SC2. He’s top class in all 3 matchups and can switch gears stylistically better than others I can think of, at least without going back and pouring over VODs. Maybe not exactly as well, but if we’re segmenting the strengths of other Zergs, he can play really aggressively in a non cheese manner like Dark, can roll people with macro and mechanics like soO and has a scary lategame like Rogue. His in-game reads and starsense are scary as well, so he consistently makes the right calls too. If there’s something that’s in the Zerg toolbox he finds a way to use it and use it well. The beloved HomeStoryCup of course! 20th anniversary, unfortunately not in Vegas (as was planned in the past) but in Berlin I think. Almost the same ^^
Really not sure how I forgot about that one saying as I’m meant to be going on a pilgrimage with a bunch of Irish Starcraft nuts
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Shame on you! You and your Irish Starcraft nuts better deliver then, as is the only redemption for your unforgivabe mistake of forgetting HSC!
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I think everyone is forgetting that Terran is the hardest race to play. There is a reason that Terrans are the only ones with wrist issues. The only reason Maru lost was because of wrist issues. Other than that, Maru >>>> Serral any day. All Serral needs to do is spam Nydus Worms to win early game, or spam Broodlords and Infestors to win late game. Terran needs to micro their units around and try to dodge Zerg (or Protoss) spells.
And there is a reason that the so-called top 2 players in the WCS circuit are Serral and Reynor. There's a reason why there is no dominant race in GSL. GSL players rely on their own skill. WCS players rely on the easiest race to play + patches to get more foreign viewers.
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On September 10 2019 00:25 evanreyes94 wrote:
I think everyone is forgetting that Terran is the hardest race to play. There is a reason that Terrans are the only ones with wrist issues. The only reason Maru lost was because of wrist issues. Other than that, Maru >>>> Serral any day. All Serral needs to do is spam Nydus Worms to win early game, or spam Broodlords and Infestors to win late game. Terran needs to micro their units around and try to dodge Zerg (or Protoss) spells.
And there is a reason that the so-called top 2 players in the WCS circuit are Serral and Reynor. There's a reason why there is no dominant race in GSL. GSL players rely on their own skill. WCS players rely on the easiest race to play + patches to get more foreign viewers.
Did you come out of that Lings of Liberty article someone linked today? You speak like the OP of that thread, published back in 2012. Open your eyes and watch carefully, you are living in the past; Zerg being an easy race is a long dead meme(while Terran being holy and sacred unfortunately is not), you shouldn't be unearthing it for no reason.
What you are saying is utterly ridicolous and it applies the least to Serral who steamrolled everyone at BlizzCon before Nydus was buffed and BL Infestor came back as a viable strat.
There's no dominant race in GSL, you say? In LoTV, Terran won 7/9 Code S and Protoss won 5/6 Super Tournaments; to each their competition to dominate.
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On September 09 2019 16:25 Noa Greenini wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2019 16:09 deacon.frost wrote:On September 09 2019 15:23 Xitah wrote:On September 09 2019 14:48 Charoisaur wrote:
Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know. It's not true that "Rogue dominated weekeners harder". Serral: Serral Rogue: RogueYou are adding sufficiently many quantifiers (1) winning (2) non-region-locked (3) non-invite-only (4) in a row to make a claim. That's definitely subjective. Ignore all the "non-region-locked" events if you want. Serral's results are more impressive than Rogue. But then again, the point is not that Serral in BONJWA[ or whatever. The point is that Serral is capable of winning a GSL, so participating in GSL is no longer such an interesting question. Here's a question, where do you think Serral would get eliminated in a GSL? R32 and R16 are almost like a weekener where you have to prepare for 3 people, so he's highly favored to make it to the play offs. Now, take the current playoffs and replace Dark with Serral. I would say he and Maru will be the top candidates to win. Then let him participate 3 times in GSL per year and he can win one. It's no longer a mystery. Edit: Also, nobody claimed that "WCS is so hard to win" so that point is entirely strawman. Rogue won in a row the following: IEM Shanghai GSL ST2 Blizzcon IEM WC Katowice Let's check Serral. GSL vs The World, Blizzcon... uhm, oh, damn, and GSL vs The world. Cool. Edit> Considering many Serral fanboys are saying that Code S is a different form of tournament and that's why Maru is so bad at weekenders(lulz), then we have to accept the fact this goes both ways. Since Code S is a different form of tournament and Serral has never shown anything to make us believe he could win. He's not capable. (well, I say we can't say as we don't know but since you're so sure I will change this to be so sure either ) In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable.
In my opinion Serral is no where near as impressive as Rogue. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... they're just not comparable.
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Canada8989 Posts
On September 10 2019 01:59 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2019 16:25 Noa Greenini wrote:On September 09 2019 16:09 deacon.frost wrote:On September 09 2019 15:23 Xitah wrote:On September 09 2019 14:48 Charoisaur wrote:
Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know. It's not true that "Rogue dominated weekeners harder". Serral: Serral Rogue: RogueYou are adding sufficiently many quantifiers (1) winning (2) non-region-locked (3) non-invite-only (4) in a row to make a claim. That's definitely subjective. Ignore all the "non-region-locked" events if you want. Serral's results are more impressive than Rogue. But then again, the point is not that Serral in BONJWA[ or whatever. The point is that Serral is capable of winning a GSL, so participating in GSL is no longer such an interesting question. Here's a question, where do you think Serral would get eliminated in a GSL? R32 and R16 are almost like a weekener where you have to prepare for 3 people, so he's highly favored to make it to the play offs. Now, take the current playoffs and replace Dark with Serral. I would say he and Maru will be the top candidates to win. Then let him participate 3 times in GSL per year and he can win one. It's no longer a mystery. Edit: Also, nobody claimed that "WCS is so hard to win" so that point is entirely strawman. Rogue won in a row the following: IEM Shanghai GSL ST2 Blizzcon IEM WC Katowice Let's check Serral. GSL vs The World, Blizzcon... uhm, oh, damn, and GSL vs The world. Cool. Edit> Considering many Serral fanboys are saying that Code S is a different form of tournament and that's why Maru is so bad at weekenders(lulz), then we have to accept the fact this goes both ways. Since Code S is a different form of tournament and Serral has never shown anything to make us believe he could win. He's not capable. (well, I say we can't say as we don't know but since you're so sure I will change this to be so sure either ) In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable. In my opinion Serral is no where near as impressive as Rogue. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... they're just not comparable.
Rogue dosen't even make the top 5 zerg list for me
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On September 10 2019 02:03 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2019 01:59 Charoisaur wrote:On September 09 2019 16:25 Noa Greenini wrote:On September 09 2019 16:09 deacon.frost wrote:On September 09 2019 15:23 Xitah wrote:On September 09 2019 14:48 Charoisaur wrote:
Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know. It's not true that "Rogue dominated weekeners harder". Serral: Serral Rogue: RogueYou are adding sufficiently many quantifiers (1) winning (2) non-region-locked (3) non-invite-only (4) in a row to make a claim. That's definitely subjective. Ignore all the "non-region-locked" events if you want. Serral's results are more impressive than Rogue. But then again, the point is not that Serral in BONJWA[ or whatever. The point is that Serral is capable of winning a GSL, so participating in GSL is no longer such an interesting question. Here's a question, where do you think Serral would get eliminated in a GSL? R32 and R16 are almost like a weekener where you have to prepare for 3 people, so he's highly favored to make it to the play offs. Now, take the current playoffs and replace Dark with Serral. I would say he and Maru will be the top candidates to win. Then let him participate 3 times in GSL per year and he can win one. It's no longer a mystery. Edit: Also, nobody claimed that "WCS is so hard to win" so that point is entirely strawman. Rogue won in a row the following: IEM Shanghai GSL ST2 Blizzcon IEM WC Katowice Let's check Serral. GSL vs The World, Blizzcon... uhm, oh, damn, and GSL vs The world. Cool. Edit> Considering many Serral fanboys are saying that Code S is a different form of tournament and that's why Maru is so bad at weekenders(lulz), then we have to accept the fact this goes both ways. Since Code S is a different form of tournament and Serral has never shown anything to make us believe he could win. He's not capable. (well, I say we can't say as we don't know but since you're so sure I will change this to be so sure either ) In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable. In my opinion Serral is no where near as impressive as Rogue. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... they're just not comparable. Rogue dosen't even make the top 5 zerg list for me
For you, yes. However, objectively, Serral is not a top 5 Zerg, let alone top 5 player. Maybe in the WCS circuit, but not outside of that.
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On September 10 2019 02:25 evanreyes94 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2019 02:03 Nakajin wrote:On September 10 2019 01:59 Charoisaur wrote:On September 09 2019 16:25 Noa Greenini wrote:On September 09 2019 16:09 deacon.frost wrote:On September 09 2019 15:23 Xitah wrote:On September 09 2019 14:48 Charoisaur wrote:
Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know. It's not true that "Rogue dominated weekeners harder". Serral: Serral Rogue: RogueYou are adding sufficiently many quantifiers (1) winning (2) non-region-locked (3) non-invite-only (4) in a row to make a claim. That's definitely subjective. Ignore all the "non-region-locked" events if you want. Serral's results are more impressive than Rogue. But then again, the point is not that Serral in BONJWA[ or whatever. The point is that Serral is capable of winning a GSL, so participating in GSL is no longer such an interesting question. Here's a question, where do you think Serral would get eliminated in a GSL? R32 and R16 are almost like a weekener where you have to prepare for 3 people, so he's highly favored to make it to the play offs. Now, take the current playoffs and replace Dark with Serral. I would say he and Maru will be the top candidates to win. Then let him participate 3 times in GSL per year and he can win one. It's no longer a mystery. Edit: Also, nobody claimed that "WCS is so hard to win" so that point is entirely strawman. Rogue won in a row the following: IEM Shanghai GSL ST2 Blizzcon IEM WC Katowice Let's check Serral. GSL vs The World, Blizzcon... uhm, oh, damn, and GSL vs The world. Cool. Edit> Considering many Serral fanboys are saying that Code S is a different form of tournament and that's why Maru is so bad at weekenders(lulz), then we have to accept the fact this goes both ways. Since Code S is a different form of tournament and Serral has never shown anything to make us believe he could win. He's not capable. (well, I say we can't say as we don't know but since you're so sure I will change this to be so sure either ) In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable. In my opinion Serral is no where near as impressive as Rogue. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... they're just not comparable. Rogue dosen't even make the top 5 zerg list for me For you, yes. However, objectively, Serral is not a top 5 Zerg, let alone top 5 player. Maybe in the WCS circuit, but not outside of that.
"Objectively". Is Evan Reyes Rodya's real name?
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Canada8989 Posts
On September 10 2019 02:25 evanreyes94 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2019 02:03 Nakajin wrote:On September 10 2019 01:59 Charoisaur wrote:On September 09 2019 16:25 Noa Greenini wrote:On September 09 2019 16:09 deacon.frost wrote:On September 09 2019 15:23 Xitah wrote:On September 09 2019 14:48 Charoisaur wrote:
Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know. It's not true that "Rogue dominated weekeners harder". Serral: Serral Rogue: RogueYou are adding sufficiently many quantifiers (1) winning (2) non-region-locked (3) non-invite-only (4) in a row to make a claim. That's definitely subjective. Ignore all the "non-region-locked" events if you want. Serral's results are more impressive than Rogue. But then again, the point is not that Serral in BONJWA[ or whatever. The point is that Serral is capable of winning a GSL, so participating in GSL is no longer such an interesting question. Here's a question, where do you think Serral would get eliminated in a GSL? R32 and R16 are almost like a weekener where you have to prepare for 3 people, so he's highly favored to make it to the play offs. Now, take the current playoffs and replace Dark with Serral. I would say he and Maru will be the top candidates to win. Then let him participate 3 times in GSL per year and he can win one. It's no longer a mystery. Edit: Also, nobody claimed that "WCS is so hard to win" so that point is entirely strawman. Rogue won in a row the following: IEM Shanghai GSL ST2 Blizzcon IEM WC Katowice Let's check Serral. GSL vs The World, Blizzcon... uhm, oh, damn, and GSL vs The world. Cool. Edit> Considering many Serral fanboys are saying that Code S is a different form of tournament and that's why Maru is so bad at weekenders(lulz), then we have to accept the fact this goes both ways. Since Code S is a different form of tournament and Serral has never shown anything to make us believe he could win. He's not capable. (well, I say we can't say as we don't know but since you're so sure I will change this to be so sure either ) In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable. In my opinion Serral is no where near as impressive as Rogue. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... they're just not comparable. Rogue dosen't even make the top 5 zerg list for me For you, yes. However, objectively, Serral is not a top 5 Zerg, let alone top 5 player. Maybe in the WCS circuit, but not outside of that.
I know it's a troll but if something is "objective" than it is as objective for me as for anyone else, it's not a matter of opinion but direct, verifiable, truth. In anycase it dosen't matter here since it is clearly not such a case.
I meant top 5 z all time by the way not right now
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The two or three holdouts making weak counterfactual arguments ('but... but... but... he's never REALLY won GSL !' 'He could...or he could not !') are beginning to be up there with other great TL debates deniers : gun control, climate change, Brexit.
Let's just all agree that power level wise, Serral = Jiren, Maru = Goku, and Stats = Vegeta, alright ? No banjos needed.
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On September 10 2019 01:59 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2019 16:25 Noa Greenini wrote:On September 09 2019 16:09 deacon.frost wrote:On September 09 2019 15:23 Xitah wrote:On September 09 2019 14:48 Charoisaur wrote:
Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know. It's not true that "Rogue dominated weekeners harder". Serral: Serral Rogue: RogueYou are adding sufficiently many quantifiers (1) winning (2) non-region-locked (3) non-invite-only (4) in a row to make a claim. That's definitely subjective. Ignore all the "non-region-locked" events if you want. Serral's results are more impressive than Rogue. But then again, the point is not that Serral in BONJWA[ or whatever. The point is that Serral is capable of winning a GSL, so participating in GSL is no longer such an interesting question. Here's a question, where do you think Serral would get eliminated in a GSL? R32 and R16 are almost like a weekener where you have to prepare for 3 people, so he's highly favored to make it to the play offs. Now, take the current playoffs and replace Dark with Serral. I would say he and Maru will be the top candidates to win. Then let him participate 3 times in GSL per year and he can win one. It's no longer a mystery. Edit: Also, nobody claimed that "WCS is so hard to win" so that point is entirely strawman. Rogue won in a row the following: IEM Shanghai GSL ST2 Blizzcon IEM WC Katowice Let's check Serral. GSL vs The World, Blizzcon... uhm, oh, damn, and GSL vs The world. Cool. Edit> Considering many Serral fanboys are saying that Code S is a different form of tournament and that's why Maru is so bad at weekenders(lulz), then we have to accept the fact this goes both ways. Since Code S is a different form of tournament and Serral has never shown anything to make us believe he could win. He's not capable. (well, I say we can't say as we don't know but since you're so sure I will change this to be so sure either ) In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable. In my opinion Serral is no where near as impressive as Rogue. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... they're just not comparable.
^^ I know you're trolling, but that one was bad even for you haha not even the most avid foreigner hater will agree with you (and you don't either of course). At least come with believable arguments like "I think Rogue had a higher peak". I can respect that opinion even if I don't agree :-)
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On September 10 2019 02:55 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2019 02:25 evanreyes94 wrote:On September 10 2019 02:03 Nakajin wrote:On September 10 2019 01:59 Charoisaur wrote:On September 09 2019 16:25 Noa Greenini wrote:On September 09 2019 16:09 deacon.frost wrote:On September 09 2019 15:23 Xitah wrote:On September 09 2019 14:48 Charoisaur wrote:
Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know. It's not true that "Rogue dominated weekeners harder". Serral: Serral Rogue: RogueYou are adding sufficiently many quantifiers (1) winning (2) non-region-locked (3) non-invite-only (4) in a row to make a claim. That's definitely subjective. Ignore all the "non-region-locked" events if you want. Serral's results are more impressive than Rogue. But then again, the point is not that Serral in BONJWA[ or whatever. The point is that Serral is capable of winning a GSL, so participating in GSL is no longer such an interesting question. Here's a question, where do you think Serral would get eliminated in a GSL? R32 and R16 are almost like a weekener where you have to prepare for 3 people, so he's highly favored to make it to the play offs. Now, take the current playoffs and replace Dark with Serral. I would say he and Maru will be the top candidates to win. Then let him participate 3 times in GSL per year and he can win one. It's no longer a mystery. Edit: Also, nobody claimed that "WCS is so hard to win" so that point is entirely strawman. Rogue won in a row the following: IEM Shanghai GSL ST2 Blizzcon IEM WC Katowice Let's check Serral. GSL vs The World, Blizzcon... uhm, oh, damn, and GSL vs The world. Cool. Edit> Considering many Serral fanboys are saying that Code S is a different form of tournament and that's why Maru is so bad at weekenders(lulz), then we have to accept the fact this goes both ways. Since Code S is a different form of tournament and Serral has never shown anything to make us believe he could win. He's not capable. (well, I say we can't say as we don't know but since you're so sure I will change this to be so sure either ) In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable. In my opinion Serral is no where near as impressive as Rogue. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... they're just not comparable. Rogue dosen't even make the top 5 zerg list for me For you, yes. However, objectively, Serral is not a top 5 Zerg, let alone top 5 player. Maybe in the WCS circuit, but not outside of that. I know it's a troll but if something is "objective" than it is as objective for me as for anyone else, it's not a matter of opinion but direct, verifiable, truth. In anycase it dosen't matter here since it is clearly not such a case. I meant top 5 z all time by the way not right now
Are you trolling or what?
Serral is definitely not a top 5 Zerg of all time. Not even close. If you look at any metrics for a top 5 Zerg, Serral does not fit any of the criteria. That right there is objectivity. I will grant you that Serral is an okay Zerg, but not a top 5 calibre Zerg. I will admit that Serral is a top 5 FOREIGN Zerg of all time though. Maybe 3 or 4.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On September 10 2019 05:19 evanreyes94 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2019 02:55 Nakajin wrote:On September 10 2019 02:25 evanreyes94 wrote:On September 10 2019 02:03 Nakajin wrote:On September 10 2019 01:59 Charoisaur wrote:On September 09 2019 16:25 Noa Greenini wrote:On September 09 2019 16:09 deacon.frost wrote:On September 09 2019 15:23 Xitah wrote:On September 09 2019 14:48 Charoisaur wrote:
Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know. It's not true that "Rogue dominated weekeners harder". Serral: Serral Rogue: RogueYou are adding sufficiently many quantifiers (1) winning (2) non-region-locked (3) non-invite-only (4) in a row to make a claim. That's definitely subjective. Ignore all the "non-region-locked" events if you want. Serral's results are more impressive than Rogue. But then again, the point is not that Serral in BONJWA[ or whatever. The point is that Serral is capable of winning a GSL, so participating in GSL is no longer such an interesting question. Here's a question, where do you think Serral would get eliminated in a GSL? R32 and R16 are almost like a weekener where you have to prepare for 3 people, so he's highly favored to make it to the play offs. Now, take the current playoffs and replace Dark with Serral. I would say he and Maru will be the top candidates to win. Then let him participate 3 times in GSL per year and he can win one. It's no longer a mystery. Edit: Also, nobody claimed that "WCS is so hard to win" so that point is entirely strawman. Rogue won in a row the following: IEM Shanghai GSL ST2 Blizzcon IEM WC Katowice Let's check Serral. GSL vs The World, Blizzcon... uhm, oh, damn, and GSL vs The world. Cool. Edit> Considering many Serral fanboys are saying that Code S is a different form of tournament and that's why Maru is so bad at weekenders(lulz), then we have to accept the fact this goes both ways. Since Code S is a different form of tournament and Serral has never shown anything to make us believe he could win. He's not capable. (well, I say we can't say as we don't know but since you're so sure I will change this to be so sure either ) In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable. In my opinion Serral is no where near as impressive as Rogue. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... they're just not comparable. Rogue dosen't even make the top 5 zerg list for me For you, yes. However, objectively, Serral is not a top 5 Zerg, let alone top 5 player. Maybe in the WCS circuit, but not outside of that. I know it's a troll but if something is "objective" than it is as objective for me as for anyone else, it's not a matter of opinion but direct, verifiable, truth. In anycase it dosen't matter here since it is clearly not such a case. I meant top 5 z all time by the way not right now Are you trolling or what? Serral is definitely not a top 5 Zerg of all time. Not even close. If you look at any metrics for a top 5 Zerg, Serral does not fit any of the criteria. That right there is objectivity. I will grant you that Serral is an okay Zerg, but not a top 5 calibre Zerg. I will admit that Serral is a top 5 FOREIGN Zerg of all time though. Maybe 3 or 4.
Any metrics? Objectivity, again? I am genuinely very interested to hear what your criteria are.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On September 10 2019 03:38 MyLovelyLurker wrote:
The two or three holdouts making weak counterfactual arguments ('but... but... but... he's never REALLY won GSL !' 'He could...or he could not !') are beginning to be up there with other great TL debates deniers : gun control, climate change, Brexit.
Let's just all agree that power level wise, Serral = Jiren, Maru = Goku, and Stats = Vegeta, alright ? No banjos needed.
The fuck is Goku, Jiren or VEgeta? Unless you meant Vegetol.
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On September 10 2019 05:45 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2019 03:38 MyLovelyLurker wrote:
The two or three holdouts making weak counterfactual arguments ('but... but... but... he's never REALLY won GSL !' 'He could...or he could not !') are beginning to be up there with other great TL debates deniers : gun control, climate change, Brexit.
Let's just all agree that power level wise, Serral = Jiren, Maru = Goku, and Stats = Vegeta, alright ? No banjos needed. The fuck is Goku, Jiren or VEgeta? Unless you meant Vegetol.
It's DragonBall(Super).
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EPT
