On September 08 2019 21:35 sneakyfox wrote: Is it TIME?
Or will Stephano take the foreigner GOAT crown with another glorious championship?
Players who aren't even in the top 3 list are ineligible even for consideration of that title, even if they do somehow win this tournament. Of the two you listed, one lacks a history of championship wins, and the other hasn't had a particularly strong showing since his "retirement" over half a decade ago. The latter would have to win at least another 2-3 tournaments to regain that title, and the former would need to win at least 7 tournaments, including some global ones. I'm sure you were just trying to be funny though. It's okay; I did laugh.
I feel like neeb's chance to win WCS this year came and went after he lost to special 3-2. It was just a really good patch for neeb, he was in really good form and he would have stood a great chance against serral then. Watching special get annihilated 4-0 was just sad.
But as of right now and his recent play on the new patch, it's hard to see neeb upsetting (imo) both TIME and serral to get to the finals
On September 08 2019 23:44 Elentos wrote: Real talk though lads this doesn't look near convincing enough from Juan to make me think he can beat Reynor and Serral.
Now, special is very good, and likely better than stephano, but could we consider a nerf to BC that changes the tactical jump to emergency FTL, which removes some health after the jump? At least you wouldn't have that extremely frustrating jump away and repair with 10hp left
No shame in losing for Stephano, he already surpassed most expectations. I'm happy Special is still in there, he might get another final against Serral and spare us another ZvZ final.
On September 09 2019 00:02 Elentos wrote: Kinda disappointing how all the people theoretically still fighting for Blizzcon did this tournament. Guess the top 8 is just too stable.
WCS has been this way for like three years but its still more exiting than GSL right
On September 09 2019 00:01 t5Fab wrote: Now, special is very good, and likely better than stephano, but could we consider a nerf to BC that changes the tactical jump to emergency FTL, which removes some health after the jump? At least you wouldn't have that extremely frustrating jump away and repair with 10hp left
Would be the same as just reducing the hp straightaway. Giving the Jump some Kind of charging, were the bc is stunned like for recall would be nice
On September 09 2019 00:02 Elentos wrote: Kinda disappointing how all the people theoretically still fighting for Blizzcon did this tournament. Guess the top 8 is just too stable.
WCS has been this way for like three years but its still more exiting than GSL right
Weren't you the one complaining yesterday about Lambo getting to BlizzCon? He qualified in a very exciting turn of events, if he didn't Reynor would have with a single WCS presence; not to mention Has and Mana both miracolously reaching a WCS final. The top eight Circuit sent to BlizzCon was very different from the best eight players there were, you are just complaining for the sake of it.
On September 09 2019 00:02 Elentos wrote: Kinda disappointing how all the people theoretically still fighting for Blizzcon did this tournament. Guess the top 8 is just too stable.
WCS has been this way for like three years but its still more exiting than GSL right
Weren't you the one complaining yesterday about Lambo getting to BlizzCon? He qualified in a very exciting turn of events, if he didn't Reynor would have with a single WCS presence; not to mention Has and Mana both miracolously reaching a WCS final. The top eight Circuit sent to BlizzCon was very different from the best eight players there were, you are just complaining for the sake of it.
When was I complaining? I made a joke That Lambo not making blizzcon this year makes up for him getting in last year over better players.
The top 8 of every WCS has been stagnant since forever. It's usually the same player winning every time, and the same roster of players making top 8 (obviously fluctuating depending on brackets). Someone even did the stats in the "WCS>GSL" article last year and proved its much more repetitive than GSL/any korean event in terms of who makes top 8 each event.
You can't list one or two decent storylines and act like the WCS top 8 isn't stagnant. The top 8 of WCS rankings is almost the exact top 8 in this tourney, and that's something thats happened multiple times before
On September 09 2019 00:02 Elentos wrote: Kinda disappointing how all the people theoretically still fighting for Blizzcon did this tournament. Guess the top 8 is just too stable.
WCS has been this way for like three years but its still more exiting than GSL right
Weren't you the one complaining yesterday about Lambo getting to BlizzCon? He qualified in a very exciting turn of events, if he didn't Reynor would have with a single WCS presence; not to mention Has and Mana both miracolously reaching a WCS final. The top eight Circuit sent to BlizzCon was very different from the best eight players there were, you are just complaining for the sake of it.
When was I complaining? I made a joke That Lambo not making blizzcon this year makes up for him getting in last year over better players.
The top 8 of every WCS has been stagnant since forever. It's usually the same player winning every time, and the same roster of players making top 8 (obviously fluctuating depending on brackets). Someone even did the stats in the "WCS>GSL" article last year and proved its much more repetitive than GSL/any korean event in terms of who makes top 8 each event.
You can't list one or two decent storylines and act like the WCS top 8 isn't stagnant. The top 8 of WCS rankings is almost the exact top 8 in this tourney, and that's something thats happened multiple times before
The term "stagnant" is so out of place here that it makes me laugh. It's like saying Code S is stagnant because Maru repeadetly won it; this year, WCS top 8 has been extremely consistent, and this will result in having roughly the best possible Circuit players at BlizzCon. I wouldn't bet on having the same ones next year, new players are improving and some old players are showing brilliance again.
The Circuit in 2016 was completely unpredictable, last year it definitely showcased more variance than this one, and in 2017 the top 8 was quite stable; I can't really share your point of view.
On September 09 2019 00:02 Elentos wrote: Kinda disappointing how all the people theoretically still fighting for Blizzcon did this tournament. Guess the top 8 is just too stable.
WCS has been this way for like three years but its still more exiting than GSL right
Weren't you the one complaining yesterday about Lambo getting to BlizzCon? He qualified in a very exciting turn of events, if he didn't Reynor would have with a single WCS presence; not to mention Has and Mana both miracolously reaching a WCS final. The top eight Circuit sent to BlizzCon was very different from the best eight players there were, you are just complaining for the sake of it.
When was I complaining? I made a joke That Lambo not making blizzcon this year makes up for him getting in last year over better players.
The top 8 of every WCS has been stagnant since forever. It's usually the same player winning every time, and the same roster of players making top 8 (obviously fluctuating depending on brackets). Someone even did the stats in the "WCS>GSL" article last year and proved its much more repetitive than GSL/any korean event in terms of who makes top 8 each event.
You can't list one or two decent storylines and act like the WCS top 8 isn't stagnant. The top 8 of WCS rankings is almost the exact top 8 in this tourney, and that's something thats happened multiple times before
The term "stagnant" is so out of place here that it makes me laugh.
WCS top 8 has been extremely consistent
in 2017 the top 8 was quite stable
Feel free to explain how having the same "stable" or "consistent" top 8 at nearly every wcs doesn't feel stagnant?
If you look at every Korean event for the last two years there is a lot more variance, we aren't getting the same tournament every time. Hence my original post that was joking at the people claiming wcs is more exiting.
On September 09 2019 00:02 Elentos wrote: Kinda disappointing how all the people theoretically still fighting for Blizzcon did this tournament. Guess the top 8 is just too stable.
WCS has been this way for like three years but its still more exiting than GSL right
Weren't you the one complaining yesterday about Lambo getting to BlizzCon? He qualified in a very exciting turn of events, if he didn't Reynor would have with a single WCS presence; not to mention Has and Mana both miracolously reaching a WCS final. The top eight Circuit sent to BlizzCon was very different from the best eight players there were, you are just complaining for the sake of it.
When was I complaining? I made a joke That Lambo not making blizzcon this year makes up for him getting in last year over better players.
The top 8 of every WCS has been stagnant since forever. It's usually the same player winning every time, and the same roster of players making top 8 (obviously fluctuating depending on brackets). Someone even did the stats in the "WCS>GSL" article last year and proved its much more repetitive than GSL/any korean event in terms of who makes top 8 each event.
You can't list one or two decent storylines and act like the WCS top 8 isn't stagnant. The top 8 of WCS rankings is almost the exact top 8 in this tourney, and that's something thats happened multiple times before
The term "stagnant" is so out of place here that it makes me laugh.
WCS top 8 has been extremely consistent
in 2017 the top 8 was quite stable
Feel free to explain how having the same "stable" or "consistent" top 8 at nearly every wcs doesn't feel stagnant?
If you look at every Korean event for the last two years there is a lot more variance, we aren't getting the same tournament every time. Hence my original post that was joking at the people claiming wcs is more exiting.
So Korean scene is more healthy with upcoming fresh blood ?
On September 09 2019 00:02 Elentos wrote: Kinda disappointing how all the people theoretically still fighting for Blizzcon did this tournament. Guess the top 8 is just too stable.
WCS has been this way for like three years but its still more exiting than GSL right
Weren't you the one complaining yesterday about Lambo getting to BlizzCon? He qualified in a very exciting turn of events, if he didn't Reynor would have with a single WCS presence; not to mention Has and Mana both miracolously reaching a WCS final. The top eight Circuit sent to BlizzCon was very different from the best eight players there were, you are just complaining for the sake of it.
When was I complaining? I made a joke That Lambo not making blizzcon this year makes up for him getting in last year over better players.
The top 8 of every WCS has been stagnant since forever. It's usually the same player winning every time, and the same roster of players making top 8 (obviously fluctuating depending on brackets). Someone even did the stats in the "WCS>GSL" article last year and proved its much more repetitive than GSL/any korean event in terms of who makes top 8 each event.
You can't list one or two decent storylines and act like the WCS top 8 isn't stagnant. The top 8 of WCS rankings is almost the exact top 8 in this tourney, and that's something thats happened multiple times before
The term "stagnant" is so out of place here that it makes me laugh.
WCS top 8 has been extremely consistent
in 2017 the top 8 was quite stable
Feel free to explain how having the same "stable" or "consistent" top 8 at nearly every wcs doesn't feel stagnant?
If you look at every Korean event for the last two years there is a lot more variance, we aren't getting the same tournament every time. Hence my original post that was joking at the people claiming wcs is more exiting.
So Korean scene is more healthy with upcoming fresh blood ?
I think the gist is that there's more than 8 or 10 good players in Korea lol. Even if almost all of them are about to retire and do the service.
On September 09 2019 00:02 Elentos wrote: Kinda disappointing how all the people theoretically still fighting for Blizzcon did this tournament. Guess the top 8 is just too stable.
WCS has been this way for like three years but its still more exiting than GSL right
Weren't you the one complaining yesterday about Lambo getting to BlizzCon? He qualified in a very exciting turn of events, if he didn't Reynor would have with a single WCS presence; not to mention Has and Mana both miracolously reaching a WCS final. The top eight Circuit sent to BlizzCon was very different from the best eight players there were, you are just complaining for the sake of it.
When was I complaining? I made a joke That Lambo not making blizzcon this year makes up for him getting in last year over better players.
The top 8 of every WCS has been stagnant since forever. It's usually the same player winning every time, and the same roster of players making top 8 (obviously fluctuating depending on brackets). Someone even did the stats in the "WCS>GSL" article last year and proved its much more repetitive than GSL/any korean event in terms of who makes top 8 each event.
You can't list one or two decent storylines and act like the WCS top 8 isn't stagnant. The top 8 of WCS rankings is almost the exact top 8 in this tourney, and that's something thats happened multiple times before
The term "stagnant" is so out of place here that it makes me laugh.
WCS top 8 has been extremely consistent
in 2017 the top 8 was quite stable
Feel free to explain how having the same "stable" or "consistent" top 8 at nearly every wcs doesn't feel stagnant?
If you look at every Korean event for the last two years there is a lot more variance, we aren't getting the same tournament every time. Hence my original post that was joking at the people claiming wcs is more exiting.
Reynor and TIME are new to the top 8 this year. That’s not stagnant.
On September 09 2019 00:02 Elentos wrote: Kinda disappointing how all the people theoretically still fighting for Blizzcon did this tournament. Guess the top 8 is just too stable.
WCS has been this way for like three years but its still more exiting than GSL right
Weren't you the one complaining yesterday about Lambo getting to BlizzCon? He qualified in a very exciting turn of events, if he didn't Reynor would have with a single WCS presence; not to mention Has and Mana both miracolously reaching a WCS final. The top eight Circuit sent to BlizzCon was very different from the best eight players there were, you are just complaining for the sake of it.
When was I complaining? I made a joke That Lambo not making blizzcon this year makes up for him getting in last year over better players.
The top 8 of every WCS has been stagnant since forever. It's usually the same player winning every time, and the same roster of players making top 8 (obviously fluctuating depending on brackets). Someone even did the stats in the "WCS>GSL" article last year and proved its much more repetitive than GSL/any korean event in terms of who makes top 8 each event.
You can't list one or two decent storylines and act like the WCS top 8 isn't stagnant. The top 8 of WCS rankings is almost the exact top 8 in this tourney, and that's something thats happened multiple times before
The term "stagnant" is so out of place here that it makes me laugh.
WCS top 8 has been extremely consistent
in 2017 the top 8 was quite stable
Feel free to explain how having the same "stable" or "consistent" top 8 at nearly every wcs doesn't feel stagnant?
If you look at every Korean event for the last two years there is a lot more variance, we aren't getting the same tournament every time. Hence my original post that was joking at the people claiming wcs is more exiting.
So Korean scene is more healthy with upcoming fresh blood ?
I never said that? I said the korean events aren't nearly as repetitive. Maybe that will change when half the koreans retire and more foreigners emerge.
On September 09 2019 00:02 Elentos wrote: Kinda disappointing how all the people theoretically still fighting for Blizzcon did this tournament. Guess the top 8 is just too stable.
WCS has been this way for like three years but its still more exiting than GSL right
Weren't you the one complaining yesterday about Lambo getting to BlizzCon? He qualified in a very exciting turn of events, if he didn't Reynor would have with a single WCS presence; not to mention Has and Mana both miracolously reaching a WCS final. The top eight Circuit sent to BlizzCon was very different from the best eight players there were, you are just complaining for the sake of it.
When was I complaining? I made a joke That Lambo not making blizzcon this year makes up for him getting in last year over better players.
The top 8 of every WCS has been stagnant since forever. It's usually the same player winning every time, and the same roster of players making top 8 (obviously fluctuating depending on brackets). Someone even did the stats in the "WCS>GSL" article last year and proved its much more repetitive than GSL/any korean event in terms of who makes top 8 each event.
You can't list one or two decent storylines and act like the WCS top 8 isn't stagnant. The top 8 of WCS rankings is almost the exact top 8 in this tourney, and that's something thats happened multiple times before
The term "stagnant" is so out of place here that it makes me laugh.
WCS top 8 has been extremely consistent
in 2017 the top 8 was quite stable
Feel free to explain how having the same "stable" or "consistent" top 8 at nearly every wcs doesn't feel stagnant?
If you look at every Korean event for the last two years there is a lot more variance, we aren't getting the same tournament every time. Hence my original post that was joking at the people claiming wcs is more exiting.
So Korean scene is more healthy with upcoming fresh blood ?
I think the gist is that there's more than 8 or 10 good players in Korea lol. Even if almost all of them are about to retire and do the service.
Most of them would have at least a year left before service. Just need a GSL to play in next year.
On September 09 2019 00:02 Elentos wrote: Kinda disappointing how all the people theoretically still fighting for Blizzcon did this tournament. Guess the top 8 is just too stable.
WCS has been this way for like three years but its still more exiting than GSL right
Weren't you the one complaining yesterday about Lambo getting to BlizzCon? He qualified in a very exciting turn of events, if he didn't Reynor would have with a single WCS presence; not to mention Has and Mana both miracolously reaching a WCS final. The top eight Circuit sent to BlizzCon was very different from the best eight players there were, you are just complaining for the sake of it.
When was I complaining? I made a joke That Lambo not making blizzcon this year makes up for him getting in last year over better players.
The top 8 of every WCS has been stagnant since forever. It's usually the same player winning every time, and the same roster of players making top 8 (obviously fluctuating depending on brackets). Someone even did the stats in the "WCS>GSL" article last year and proved its much more repetitive than GSL/any korean event in terms of who makes top 8 each event.
You can't list one or two decent storylines and act like the WCS top 8 isn't stagnant. The top 8 of WCS rankings is almost the exact top 8 in this tourney, and that's something thats happened multiple times before
The term "stagnant" is so out of place here that it makes me laugh.
WCS top 8 has been extremely consistent
in 2017 the top 8 was quite stable
Feel free to explain how having the same "stable" or "consistent" top 8 at nearly every wcs doesn't feel stagnant?
If you look at every Korean event for the last two years there is a lot more variance, we aren't getting the same tournament every time. Hence my original post that was joking at the people claiming wcs is more exiting.
So Korean scene is more healthy with upcoming fresh blood ?
I think the gist is that there's more than 8 or 10 good players in Korea lol.
Oh, I guess this narrative is already an improvement, it was only serral 6 months ago.
On September 09 2019 00:02 Elentos wrote: Kinda disappointing how all the people theoretically still fighting for Blizzcon did this tournament. Guess the top 8 is just too stable.
WCS has been this way for like three years but its still more exiting than GSL right
Weren't you the one complaining yesterday about Lambo getting to BlizzCon? He qualified in a very exciting turn of events, if he didn't Reynor would have with a single WCS presence; not to mention Has and Mana both miracolously reaching a WCS final. The top eight Circuit sent to BlizzCon was very different from the best eight players there were, you are just complaining for the sake of it.
When was I complaining? I made a joke That Lambo not making blizzcon this year makes up for him getting in last year over better players.
The top 8 of every WCS has been stagnant since forever. It's usually the same player winning every time, and the same roster of players making top 8 (obviously fluctuating depending on brackets). Someone even did the stats in the "WCS>GSL" article last year and proved its much more repetitive than GSL/any korean event in terms of who makes top 8 each event.
You can't list one or two decent storylines and act like the WCS top 8 isn't stagnant. The top 8 of WCS rankings is almost the exact top 8 in this tourney, and that's something thats happened multiple times before
The term "stagnant" is so out of place here that it makes me laugh.
WCS top 8 has been extremely consistent
in 2017 the top 8 was quite stable
Feel free to explain how having the same "stable" or "consistent" top 8 at nearly every wcs doesn't feel stagnant?
If you look at every Korean event for the last two years there is a lot more variance, we aren't getting the same tournament every time. Hence my original post that was joking at the people claiming wcs is more exiting.
So Korean scene is more healthy with upcoming fresh blood ?
I think the gist is that there's more than 8 or 10 good players in Korea lol.
Oh, I guess this narrative is already an improvement, it was only serral 6 months ago.
Good relative to their own field. In WCS there's 8-10 players that will make up the top 8 almost every time. In korea there's a much greater pool.
On September 09 2019 00:02 Elentos wrote: Kinda disappointing how all the people theoretically still fighting for Blizzcon did this tournament. Guess the top 8 is just too stable.
WCS has been this way for like three years but its still more exiting than GSL right
Weren't you the one complaining yesterday about Lambo getting to BlizzCon? He qualified in a very exciting turn of events, if he didn't Reynor would have with a single WCS presence; not to mention Has and Mana both miracolously reaching a WCS final. The top eight Circuit sent to BlizzCon was very different from the best eight players there were, you are just complaining for the sake of it.
When was I complaining? I made a joke That Lambo not making blizzcon this year makes up for him getting in last year over better players.
The top 8 of every WCS has been stagnant since forever. It's usually the same player winning every time, and the same roster of players making top 8 (obviously fluctuating depending on brackets). Someone even did the stats in the "WCS>GSL" article last year and proved its much more repetitive than GSL/any korean event in terms of who makes top 8 each event.
You can't list one or two decent storylines and act like the WCS top 8 isn't stagnant. The top 8 of WCS rankings is almost the exact top 8 in this tourney, and that's something thats happened multiple times before
The term "stagnant" is so out of place here that it makes me laugh.
WCS top 8 has been extremely consistent
in 2017 the top 8 was quite stable
Feel free to explain how having the same "stable" or "consistent" top 8 at nearly every wcs doesn't feel stagnant?
If you look at every Korean event for the last two years there is a lot more variance, we aren't getting the same tournament every time. Hence my original post that was joking at the people claiming wcs is more exiting.
So Korean scene is more healthy with upcoming fresh blood ?
Also let's be honest is this the appropriate comment for a tournament with young up and comer Stephano making the top 8?
TIME really is the closest to a typical Korean Terran in this tournament. Yeah SpeCial plays like TY but that's a kinda non-standard brand of Korean Terran.
On September 09 2019 00:02 Elentos wrote: Kinda disappointing how all the people theoretically still fighting for Blizzcon did this tournament. Guess the top 8 is just too stable.
WCS has been this way for like three years but its still more exiting than GSL right
Weren't you the one complaining yesterday about Lambo getting to BlizzCon? He qualified in a very exciting turn of events, if he didn't Reynor would have with a single WCS presence; not to mention Has and Mana both miracolously reaching a WCS final. The top eight Circuit sent to BlizzCon was very different from the best eight players there were, you are just complaining for the sake of it.
When was I complaining? I made a joke That Lambo not making blizzcon this year makes up for him getting in last year over better players.
The top 8 of every WCS has been stagnant since forever. It's usually the same player winning every time, and the same roster of players making top 8 (obviously fluctuating depending on brackets). Someone even did the stats in the "WCS>GSL" article last year and proved its much more repetitive than GSL/any korean event in terms of who makes top 8 each event.
You can't list one or two decent storylines and act like the WCS top 8 isn't stagnant. The top 8 of WCS rankings is almost the exact top 8 in this tourney, and that's something thats happened multiple times before
The term "stagnant" is so out of place here that it makes me laugh.
WCS top 8 has been extremely consistent
in 2017 the top 8 was quite stable
Feel free to explain how having the same "stable" or "consistent" top 8 at nearly every wcs doesn't feel stagnant?
If you look at every Korean event for the last two years there is a lot more variance, we aren't getting the same tournament every time. Hence my original post that was joking at the people claiming wcs is more exiting.
Reynor and TIME are new to the top 8 this year. That’s not stagnant.
Reynor was already a top foreigner last year if you look at the tournaments he was allowed to compete in.
Other than TIME pushing up we've basically had the same tournament for the last 7 or so wcs events.
On September 09 2019 00:02 Elentos wrote: Kinda disappointing how all the people theoretically still fighting for Blizzcon did this tournament. Guess the top 8 is just too stable.
WCS has been this way for like three years but its still more exiting than GSL right
Weren't you the one complaining yesterday about Lambo getting to BlizzCon? He qualified in a very exciting turn of events, if he didn't Reynor would have with a single WCS presence; not to mention Has and Mana both miracolously reaching a WCS final. The top eight Circuit sent to BlizzCon was very different from the best eight players there were, you are just complaining for the sake of it.
When was I complaining? I made a joke That Lambo not making blizzcon this year makes up for him getting in last year over better players.
The top 8 of every WCS has been stagnant since forever. It's usually the same player winning every time, and the same roster of players making top 8 (obviously fluctuating depending on brackets). Someone even did the stats in the "WCS>GSL" article last year and proved its much more repetitive than GSL/any korean event in terms of who makes top 8 each event.
You can't list one or two decent storylines and act like the WCS top 8 isn't stagnant. The top 8 of WCS rankings is almost the exact top 8 in this tourney, and that's something thats happened multiple times before
The term "stagnant" is so out of place here that it makes me laugh.
WCS top 8 has been extremely consistent
in 2017 the top 8 was quite stable
Feel free to explain how having the same "stable" or "consistent" top 8 at nearly every wcs doesn't feel stagnant?
If you look at every Korean event for the last two years there is a lot more variance, we aren't getting the same tournament every time. Hence my original post that was joking at the people claiming wcs is more exiting.
If the best are good enough to place high every time, it just means at the moment you couldn't be seeing a better ro8 in WCS; this usually ensures matches are tense and of high quality, how is this stagnant? Especially when you are so excited to watch Maru roflstomp everyone in Code S playoffs…Protoss GSL was the most varied we have had in the last two years, I don't remember you being happy.
On September 09 2019 01:23 Elentos wrote: TIME really is the closest to a typical Korean Terran in this tournament. Yeah SpeCial plays like TY but that's a kinda non-standard brand of Korean Terran.
Yeah SpeCial doesn't really play like the classic Korean terran. TIME does even if he isn't close to the elite yet.
Stylistically TIME matches up really well vs the foreigner field.
On September 09 2019 00:02 Elentos wrote: Kinda disappointing how all the people theoretically still fighting for Blizzcon did this tournament. Guess the top 8 is just too stable.
WCS has been this way for like three years but its still more exiting than GSL right
Weren't you the one complaining yesterday about Lambo getting to BlizzCon? He qualified in a very exciting turn of events, if he didn't Reynor would have with a single WCS presence; not to mention Has and Mana both miracolously reaching a WCS final. The top eight Circuit sent to BlizzCon was very different from the best eight players there were, you are just complaining for the sake of it.
When was I complaining? I made a joke That Lambo not making blizzcon this year makes up for him getting in last year over better players.
The top 8 of every WCS has been stagnant since forever. It's usually the same player winning every time, and the same roster of players making top 8 (obviously fluctuating depending on brackets). Someone even did the stats in the "WCS>GSL" article last year and proved its much more repetitive than GSL/any korean event in terms of who makes top 8 each event.
You can't list one or two decent storylines and act like the WCS top 8 isn't stagnant. The top 8 of WCS rankings is almost the exact top 8 in this tourney, and that's something thats happened multiple times before
The term "stagnant" is so out of place here that it makes me laugh.
WCS top 8 has been extremely consistent
in 2017 the top 8 was quite stable
Feel free to explain how having the same "stable" or "consistent" top 8 at nearly every wcs doesn't feel stagnant?
If you look at every Korean event for the last two years there is a lot more variance, we aren't getting the same tournament every time. Hence my original post that was joking at the people claiming wcs is more exiting.
If the best are good enough to place high every time, it just means at the moment you couldn't be seeing a better ro8 in WCS; this usually ensures matches are tense and of high quality, how is this stagnant?
The higher round matches of WCS are usually not close though. Even though you'd think those 8 players who always reach the top 8 should be relatively even in skill.
On September 09 2019 00:02 Elentos wrote: Kinda disappointing how all the people theoretically still fighting for Blizzcon did this tournament. Guess the top 8 is just too stable.
WCS has been this way for like three years but its still more exiting than GSL right
Weren't you the one complaining yesterday about Lambo getting to BlizzCon? He qualified in a very exciting turn of events, if he didn't Reynor would have with a single WCS presence; not to mention Has and Mana both miracolously reaching a WCS final. The top eight Circuit sent to BlizzCon was very different from the best eight players there were, you are just complaining for the sake of it.
When was I complaining? I made a joke That Lambo not making blizzcon this year makes up for him getting in last year over better players.
The top 8 of every WCS has been stagnant since forever. It's usually the same player winning every time, and the same roster of players making top 8 (obviously fluctuating depending on brackets). Someone even did the stats in the "WCS>GSL" article last year and proved its much more repetitive than GSL/any korean event in terms of who makes top 8 each event.
You can't list one or two decent storylines and act like the WCS top 8 isn't stagnant. The top 8 of WCS rankings is almost the exact top 8 in this tourney, and that's something thats happened multiple times before
The term "stagnant" is so out of place here that it makes me laugh.
WCS top 8 has been extremely consistent
in 2017 the top 8 was quite stable
Feel free to explain how having the same "stable" or "consistent" top 8 at nearly every wcs doesn't feel stagnant?
If you look at every Korean event for the last two years there is a lot more variance, we aren't getting the same tournament every time. Hence my original post that was joking at the people claiming wcs is more exiting.
If the best are good enough to place high every time, it just means at the moment you couldn't be seeing a better ro8 in WCS; this usually ensures matches are tense and of high quality, how is this stagnant?
Its stagnant because there are only 8-10 foreigners actually competing on the level to go deep every time. And even further only 1-2 capable of being challengers to win. Like I said, we almost get the same roster in the ro8 of every wcs event. Multiple people have pointed out that the top 8 of this tournament is almost identical to the top 8 of yearly rankings.
Compare it to events with koreans over the last two years. The pool of top players and variance in the later stages is much greater.
On September 09 2019 00:02 Elentos wrote: Kinda disappointing how all the people theoretically still fighting for Blizzcon did this tournament. Guess the top 8 is just too stable.
WCS has been this way for like three years but its still more exiting than GSL right
Weren't you the one complaining yesterday about Lambo getting to BlizzCon? He qualified in a very exciting turn of events, if he didn't Reynor would have with a single WCS presence; not to mention Has and Mana both miracolously reaching a WCS final. The top eight Circuit sent to BlizzCon was very different from the best eight players there were, you are just complaining for the sake of it.
When was I complaining? I made a joke That Lambo not making blizzcon this year makes up for him getting in last year over better players.
The top 8 of every WCS has been stagnant since forever. It's usually the same player winning every time, and the same roster of players making top 8 (obviously fluctuating depending on brackets). Someone even did the stats in the "WCS>GSL" article last year and proved its much more repetitive than GSL/any korean event in terms of who makes top 8 each event.
You can't list one or two decent storylines and act like the WCS top 8 isn't stagnant. The top 8 of WCS rankings is almost the exact top 8 in this tourney, and that's something thats happened multiple times before
The term "stagnant" is so out of place here that it makes me laugh.
WCS top 8 has been extremely consistent
in 2017 the top 8 was quite stable
Feel free to explain how having the same "stable" or "consistent" top 8 at nearly every wcs doesn't feel stagnant?
If you look at every Korean event for the last two years there is a lot more variance, we aren't getting the same tournament every time. Hence my original post that was joking at the people claiming wcs is more exiting.
If the best are good enough to place high every time, it just means at the moment you couldn't be seeing a better ro8 in WCS; this usually ensures matches are tense and of high quality, how is this stagnant?
Its stagnant because there are only 8-10 foreigners actually competing on the level to go deep every time. And even further only 1-2 capable of being challengers to win. Like I said, we almost get the same roster in the ro8 of every wcs event. Multiple people have pointed out that the top 8 of this tournament is almost identical to the top 8 of yearly rankings.
Compare it to events with koreans over the last two years. The pool of top players and variance in the later stages is much greater.
You are not answering at all, this post of yours is identical to the last three you made. This level of consistency is unique to 2019, I don't think it's bad and I don't even think it's going to be the same in the next years.
On September 09 2019 00:02 Elentos wrote: Kinda disappointing how all the people theoretically still fighting for Blizzcon did this tournament. Guess the top 8 is just too stable.
WCS has been this way for like three years but its still more exiting than GSL right
Weren't you the one complaining yesterday about Lambo getting to BlizzCon? He qualified in a very exciting turn of events, if he didn't Reynor would have with a single WCS presence; not to mention Has and Mana both miracolously reaching a WCS final. The top eight Circuit sent to BlizzCon was very different from the best eight players there were, you are just complaining for the sake of it.
When was I complaining? I made a joke That Lambo not making blizzcon this year makes up for him getting in last year over better players.
The top 8 of every WCS has been stagnant since forever. It's usually the same player winning every time, and the same roster of players making top 8 (obviously fluctuating depending on brackets). Someone even did the stats in the "WCS>GSL" article last year and proved its much more repetitive than GSL/any korean event in terms of who makes top 8 each event.
You can't list one or two decent storylines and act like the WCS top 8 isn't stagnant. The top 8 of WCS rankings is almost the exact top 8 in this tourney, and that's something thats happened multiple times before
The term "stagnant" is so out of place here that it makes me laugh.
WCS top 8 has been extremely consistent
in 2017 the top 8 was quite stable
Feel free to explain how having the same "stable" or "consistent" top 8 at nearly every wcs doesn't feel stagnant?
If you look at every Korean event for the last two years there is a lot more variance, we aren't getting the same tournament every time. Hence my original post that was joking at the people claiming wcs is more exiting.
So Korean scene is more healthy with upcoming fresh blood ?
Also let's be honest is this the appropriate comment for a tournament with young up and comer Stephano making the top 8?
Dunno, I don't think Stephano ro8 invalidates the fact that there is more fresh blood in the foreign scene than the korean one for now unfortunately.
On September 09 2019 00:02 Elentos wrote: Kinda disappointing how all the people theoretically still fighting for Blizzcon did this tournament. Guess the top 8 is just too stable.
WCS has been this way for like three years but its still more exiting than GSL right
Weren't you the one complaining yesterday about Lambo getting to BlizzCon? He qualified in a very exciting turn of events, if he didn't Reynor would have with a single WCS presence; not to mention Has and Mana both miracolously reaching a WCS final. The top eight Circuit sent to BlizzCon was very different from the best eight players there were, you are just complaining for the sake of it.
When was I complaining? I made a joke That Lambo not making blizzcon this year makes up for him getting in last year over better players.
The top 8 of every WCS has been stagnant since forever. It's usually the same player winning every time, and the same roster of players making top 8 (obviously fluctuating depending on brackets). Someone even did the stats in the "WCS>GSL" article last year and proved its much more repetitive than GSL/any korean event in terms of who makes top 8 each event.
You can't list one or two decent storylines and act like the WCS top 8 isn't stagnant. The top 8 of WCS rankings is almost the exact top 8 in this tourney, and that's something thats happened multiple times before
The term "stagnant" is so out of place here that it makes me laugh.
WCS top 8 has been extremely consistent
in 2017 the top 8 was quite stable
Feel free to explain how having the same "stable" or "consistent" top 8 at nearly every wcs doesn't feel stagnant?
If you look at every Korean event for the last two years there is a lot more variance, we aren't getting the same tournament every time. Hence my original post that was joking at the people claiming wcs is more exiting.
So Korean scene is more healthy with upcoming fresh blood ?
Also let's be honest is this the appropriate comment for a tournament with young up and comer Stephano making the top 8?
Dunno, I don't think Stephano ro8 invalidates the fact that there is more fresh blood in the foreign scene than the korean one for now unfortunately.
Korean scene hasn't had incentive to go pro for the longest time.
On September 09 2019 00:02 Elentos wrote: Kinda disappointing how all the people theoretically still fighting for Blizzcon did this tournament. Guess the top 8 is just too stable.
WCS has been this way for like three years but its still more exiting than GSL right
Weren't you the one complaining yesterday about Lambo getting to BlizzCon? He qualified in a very exciting turn of events, if he didn't Reynor would have with a single WCS presence; not to mention Has and Mana both miracolously reaching a WCS final. The top eight Circuit sent to BlizzCon was very different from the best eight players there were, you are just complaining for the sake of it.
When was I complaining? I made a joke That Lambo not making blizzcon this year makes up for him getting in last year over better players.
The top 8 of every WCS has been stagnant since forever. It's usually the same player winning every time, and the same roster of players making top 8 (obviously fluctuating depending on brackets). Someone even did the stats in the "WCS>GSL" article last year and proved its much more repetitive than GSL/any korean event in terms of who makes top 8 each event.
You can't list one or two decent storylines and act like the WCS top 8 isn't stagnant. The top 8 of WCS rankings is almost the exact top 8 in this tourney, and that's something thats happened multiple times before
The term "stagnant" is so out of place here that it makes me laugh.
WCS top 8 has been extremely consistent
in 2017 the top 8 was quite stable
Feel free to explain how having the same "stable" or "consistent" top 8 at nearly every wcs doesn't feel stagnant?
If you look at every Korean event for the last two years there is a lot more variance, we aren't getting the same tournament every time. Hence my original post that was joking at the people claiming wcs is more exiting.
If the best are good enough to place high every time, it just means at the moment you couldn't be seeing a better ro8 in WCS; this usually ensures matches are tense and of high quality, how is this stagnant?
Its stagnant because there are only 8-10 foreigners actually competing on the level to go deep every time. And even further only 1-2 capable of being challengers to win. Like I said, we almost get the same roster in the ro8 of every wcs event. Multiple people have pointed out that the top 8 of this tournament is almost identical to the top 8 of yearly rankings.
Compare it to events with koreans over the last two years. The pool of top players and variance in the later stages is much greater.
You are not answering at all, this post of yours is identical to the last three you made. This level of consistency is unique to 2019, I don't think it's bad and I don't even think it's going to be the same in the next years.
You also don't seem to understand what I meant by calling wcs stagnant and repetitive. Having the same tournament every time is indeed consistent, but its also pretty damn boring.
There simply isn't much variance between these events or anything to get invested in. Especially compared to the international or korean tournaments which WCS supposedly outshines.
On September 09 2019 00:02 Elentos wrote: Kinda disappointing how all the people theoretically still fighting for Blizzcon did this tournament. Guess the top 8 is just too stable.
WCS has been this way for like three years but its still more exiting than GSL right
Weren't you the one complaining yesterday about Lambo getting to BlizzCon? He qualified in a very exciting turn of events, if he didn't Reynor would have with a single WCS presence; not to mention Has and Mana both miracolously reaching a WCS final. The top eight Circuit sent to BlizzCon was very different from the best eight players there were, you are just complaining for the sake of it.
When was I complaining? I made a joke That Lambo not making blizzcon this year makes up for him getting in last year over better players.
The top 8 of every WCS has been stagnant since forever. It's usually the same player winning every time, and the same roster of players making top 8 (obviously fluctuating depending on brackets). Someone even did the stats in the "WCS>GSL" article last year and proved its much more repetitive than GSL/any korean event in terms of who makes top 8 each event.
You can't list one or two decent storylines and act like the WCS top 8 isn't stagnant. The top 8 of WCS rankings is almost the exact top 8 in this tourney, and that's something thats happened multiple times before
The term "stagnant" is so out of place here that it makes me laugh.
WCS top 8 has been extremely consistent
in 2017 the top 8 was quite stable
Feel free to explain how having the same "stable" or "consistent" top 8 at nearly every wcs doesn't feel stagnant?
If you look at every Korean event for the last two years there is a lot more variance, we aren't getting the same tournament every time. Hence my original post that was joking at the people claiming wcs is more exiting.
If the best are good enough to place high every time, it just means at the moment you couldn't be seeing a better ro8 in WCS; this usually ensures matches are tense and of high quality, how is this stagnant?
Its stagnant because there are only 8-10 foreigners actually competing on the level to go deep every time. And even further only 1-2 capable of being challengers to win. Like I said, we almost get the same roster in the ro8 of every wcs event. Multiple people have pointed out that the top 8 of this tournament is almost identical to the top 8 of yearly rankings.
Compare it to events with koreans over the last two years. The pool of top players and variance in the later stages is much greater.
You are not answering at all, this post of yours is identical to the last three you made. This level of consistency is unique to 2019, I don't think it's bad and I don't even think it's going to be the same in the next years.
You also don't seem to understand what I meant by calling wcs stagnant and repetitive. Having the same tournament every time is indeed consistent, but its also pretty damn boring.
There simply isn't much variance between these events or anything to get invested in. Especially compared to the international or korean tournaments which WCS supposedly outshines.
Oh, I understand what you are saying but I don't agree at all. Having almost the same top8 in three events doesn't imply that the tournament will be the same and it's far from being boring(it turns out that the games aren't at all); that's your opinion entirely, don't watch them if you don't like them.
Generally, international tournaments are the ones I'm most excited for; korean tournaments may or may be not better than WCS.
So I accidentally clicked on the twitch link, fine with me, but I am sitting on 100 mbps(technically 150, but my card isn't capable of delivering, neither router ) and can't see 1080@60 because "twitch". Why isn't WCS at Youtube at the same time as at Twitch? Meh.
On September 09 2019 00:05 Fango wrote: [quote] WCS has been this way for like three years but its still more exiting than GSL right
Weren't you the one complaining yesterday about Lambo getting to BlizzCon? He qualified in a very exciting turn of events, if he didn't Reynor would have with a single WCS presence; not to mention Has and Mana both miracolously reaching a WCS final. The top eight Circuit sent to BlizzCon was very different from the best eight players there were, you are just complaining for the sake of it.
When was I complaining? I made a joke That Lambo not making blizzcon this year makes up for him getting in last year over better players.
The top 8 of every WCS has been stagnant since forever. It's usually the same player winning every time, and the same roster of players making top 8 (obviously fluctuating depending on brackets). Someone even did the stats in the "WCS>GSL" article last year and proved its much more repetitive than GSL/any korean event in terms of who makes top 8 each event.
You can't list one or two decent storylines and act like the WCS top 8 isn't stagnant. The top 8 of WCS rankings is almost the exact top 8 in this tourney, and that's something thats happened multiple times before
The term "stagnant" is so out of place here that it makes me laugh.
WCS top 8 has been extremely consistent
in 2017 the top 8 was quite stable
Feel free to explain how having the same "stable" or "consistent" top 8 at nearly every wcs doesn't feel stagnant?
If you look at every Korean event for the last two years there is a lot more variance, we aren't getting the same tournament every time. Hence my original post that was joking at the people claiming wcs is more exiting.
If the best are good enough to place high every time, it just means at the moment you couldn't be seeing a better ro8 in WCS; this usually ensures matches are tense and of high quality, how is this stagnant?
Its stagnant because there are only 8-10 foreigners actually competing on the level to go deep every time. And even further only 1-2 capable of being challengers to win. Like I said, we almost get the same roster in the ro8 of every wcs event. Multiple people have pointed out that the top 8 of this tournament is almost identical to the top 8 of yearly rankings.
Compare it to events with koreans over the last two years. The pool of top players and variance in the later stages is much greater.
You are not answering at all, this post of yours is identical to the last three you made. This level of consistency is unique to 2019, I don't think it's bad and I don't even think it's going to be the same in the next years.
You also don't seem to understand what I meant by calling wcs stagnant and repetitive. Having the same tournament every time is indeed consistent, but its also pretty damn boring.
There simply isn't much variance between these events or anything to get invested in. Especially compared to the international or korean tournaments which WCS supposedly outshines.
Oh, I understand what you are saying but I don't agree at all. Having almost the same top8 in three events doesn't imply that the tournament will be the same and it's far from being boring(it turns out that the games aren't at all); that's your opinion entirely, don't watch them if you don't like them.
Generally, international tournaments are the ones I'm most excited for; korean tournaments may or may be not better than WCS.
I agree, if you actually watch the games and not the names of the players the meta has shifted quite a bit multiple times over the last 7 WCS'. The games are playing out completely differently.
That's what makes it exciting. I want to see how someone as good as Serral will evolve and come up with different strategies to get advantages over what others are doing.
On September 09 2019 02:11 Zambrah wrote: Neeb writing heromarine off entirely, eh?
In his position you should write off Gabe entirely. It only makes sense to focus any preparation on Serral given how tougher an opponent he would be, and how much more likely he is to advance.
Neeb vs Heromarine would be fun but not nearly as fun as Neeb vs Serral - I mean, who doesn't want 10 pages of "constructive debate" about zerg late game?
On September 09 2019 02:15 sudete wrote: Neeb vs Heromarine would be fun but not nearly as fun as Neeb vs Serral - I mean, who doesn't want 10 pages of "constructive debate" about zerg late game?
Yes because Terran players totally have zero problem with broodlord-infestor amirite?
On September 09 2019 02:15 sudete wrote: Neeb vs Heromarine would be fun but not nearly as fun as Neeb vs Serral - I mean, who doesn't want 10 pages of "constructive debate" about zerg late game?
Yes because Terran players totally have zero problem with broodlord-infestor amirite?
We will get 3 pages of discussion from serral vs big gabe, maybe more if BCs get neuraled
Also, terrans having problems with infestor BL and protoss having problems with infestor bl are not mutually exclusive
On September 09 2019 02:15 sudete wrote: Neeb vs Heromarine would be fun but not nearly as fun as Neeb vs Serral - I mean, who doesn't want 10 pages of "constructive debate" about zerg late game?
On September 09 2019 02:29 Elentos wrote: There was a guy who won Blizzcon and made it to the finals next year but he doesn't count.
Never heard of him. Speaking of strange things, MMA had to forfeit the 2014 final even though he had no opponent
Morally sOs won that Blizzcon let's be honest. 3 consecutive wins.
Serral winning GSL vs TW and blizzcon makes him the best rts player ever. sOs couldn't come close with his mere two blizzcon, iem world championship, and hot6 cup
And people still get mad at me for saying foreigners need to win less to get more praise
On September 09 2019 02:50 evanreyes94 wrote: Heromarine threw this game so hard. Sooooo hard. 100% Heromarine caused himself to lose the game, that's all. Nothing else.
Nate was right though, supply was misleading bcz medevacs.
On September 09 2019 02:50 evanreyes94 wrote: Heromarine threw this game so hard. Sooooo hard. 100% Heromarine caused himself to lose the game, that's all. Nothing else.
Nate was right though, supply was misleading bcz medevacs.
Well I think it would have been better to just go for the heart of the base instead of running around and killing nothing.
heromarine just used f1 all game and couldnt keep up, if he had drops there's no way serral could do anything, what could serral do if heromarine dropped that top right base while attacking any other locaiton? Nothing, that's what.
I swear there was a moment where it was 90 army supply to 30 and Serral had like 4 or 5 larva. Heromarine just didn't eliminate the right bases/tech structures when he had the chance
On September 09 2019 02:52 IshinShishi wrote: heromarine just used f1 all game and couldnt keep up, if he had drops there's no way serral could do anything, what could serral do if heromarine dropped that top right base while attacking any other locaiton? Nothing, that's what.
drops against zerg never do damange this isnt 2011
On September 09 2019 02:52 IshinShishi wrote: heromarine just used f1 all game and couldnt keep up, if he had drops there's no way serral could do anything, what could serral do if heromarine dropped that top right base while attacking any other locaiton? Nothing, that's what.
If he'd known 5 minutes earlier that it was there he'd have killed it obviously.
On September 09 2019 02:54 Fango wrote: I swear there was a moment where it was 90 army supply to 30 and Serral had like 4 or 5 larva. Heromarine just didn't eliminate the right bases/tech structures when he had the chance
Serral had bases and creep everywhere. It must've been a winning position for Heromarine, but still not one that's easy to convert against a player like Serral.
Heromarine had that game. Why didnt he just go for the throat? Instead he ran around the map with half the economy of Serral and slowly bled out units. Horrible play :/
On September 09 2019 02:54 Fango wrote: I swear there was a moment where it was 90 army supply to 30 and Serral had like 4 or 5 larva. Heromarine just didn't eliminate the right bases/tech structures when he had the chance
Yeah he should have gone towards the tech of Serral instead of chasing drones to the top right. Or if he does chase the drones, he should have scanned for the burrowed ones.
Heromarine's play clearly looked desperate and emotional despite his winning position, if he took Serral's left center base, why was Serral still in the game? There was only ONE other base he could've taken and heromarine just let him.
On September 09 2019 03:11 DBooN wrote: Heromarines targeting against the BLs seemed kinda off. But maybe it's just hard with fat and slow Thors?
Doesn't help that if BL are manually targetted they outrange the thors IIRC. So technically, if you're on point(and Serral is), THors are not that omnipotent casters are saying they are.
Just that Heromarine is playing on that level vs Serral is super impressive imo. Probably not gonna win it, but he is pushing Serral to the limit every game.
I'll say it again: Thors anti armored weapon sound and graphic effects are very understated and really makes fights with them confusing and hard for viewers to grasp.
On September 09 2019 03:13 Musicus wrote: Just that Heromarine is playing on that level vs Serral is super impressive imo. Probably not gonna win it, but he is pushing Serral to the limit every game.
It's frustrating to watch him not win these games because it's more on him than on Serral at this point.
On September 09 2019 03:11 DBooN wrote: Heromarines targeting against the BLs seemed kinda off. But maybe it's just hard with fat and slow Thors?
Nah if ya got enough thors to 1-shot broods and you don't 1-shot broods ya doin it wrong
Well, to be fair, targeting 12 Thors on one broodlord is like 300% overkill. Maybe he should've just put them in AOE mode
I think someone has checked that before (maybe it was even Elentos himself) and the other mode is absolutely atrocious vs broods, in any numbers, regardless of their clumping.
On September 09 2019 03:16 IshinShishi wrote: serral's playstyle is so annoying that Im surprised people want to even get some training with him, I guess you have to if you want to win money
I also fucking hate those idiots that play only macro games and beat you at every mechanical skill :/
On September 09 2019 03:16 IshinShishi wrote: serral's playstyle is so annoying that Im surprised people want to even get some training with him, I guess you have to if you want to win money
I also fucking hate those idiots that play only macro games and beat you at every mechanical skill :/
On September 09 2019 03:16 IshinShishi wrote: serral's playstyle is so annoying that Im surprised people want to even get some training with him, I guess you have to if you want to win money
I also fucking hate those idiots that play only macro games and beat you at every mechanical skill :/
I don't mean this at all, I mean always having small amounts of lings coming from two sides non-stop the entire game
On September 09 2019 03:21 DBooN wrote: Wasn't there that one patch where Blizzard nerfed BL range so Thors can outrange them?
No they buffed thor range. But with proper micro BLs outrange anyway. Also why single target is preferable to AOE against broods, the single target has extra range.
On September 09 2019 03:21 DBooN wrote: Wasn't there that one patch where Blizzard nerfed BL range so Thors can outrange them?
No they buffed thor range. But with proper micro BLs outrange anyway. Also why single target is preferable to AOE against broods, the single target has extra range.
losing to broodlord infestor fiesta is obviously expected, but heromarine cant keep up with the multitasking needed to beat Serral with bio, so its unfortunately hopeless for him in all fronts, maybe just 2 rax every game
On September 09 2019 03:21 DBooN wrote: Wasn't there that one patch where Blizzard nerfed BL range so Thors can outrange them?
No they buffed thor range. But with proper micro BLs outrange anyway. Also why single target is preferable to AOE against broods, the single target has extra range.
Actually they nerfed BL range as well.
Which was an interesting call at the time because broods weren't really seeing much play in any Zerg match-up.
How does one player be both exceptionally excellent at the game and also deliver a consistently high quantity of sweet games?
I normally hate players like Serral that dominate so hard that it saps the tension for me, but his games always manage to deliver, so damn entertaining
I feel bad for all the pro terrans going thors against broods right now. Even if their technical range is enough, the broods can shoot at whatever and then run away. Their effective range is much greater than seems intended
On September 09 2019 03:20 Chewbacca. wrote: Feels like a few ghosts here could make a big difference.
Too expensive.
At this point yeah. But KeeN would have had the ghosts
I mean in general, I don't honestly think it's worth the investment to hope for a lucky EMP on the infestors.
Not just a lucky EMP though. Nuke harass is pretty invaluable in ultra late game and ghosts also kill units pretty good. Getting the EMP is also less lucky with the new upgrade because infestors clump so much.
On September 09 2019 03:27 Fango wrote: I feel bad for all the pro terrans going thors against broods right now. Even if their technical range is enough, the broods can shoot at whatever and then run away. Their effective range is much greater than seems intended
It's time to bring back the extra base armor on thors.
On September 09 2019 03:29 IshinShishi wrote: the first game was definitely a throw, I don't think Serral was really in danger at any point in the second game
There was that one push Gabe did where he should have killed like 90% of the broods but instead left them all on low health because he didn't target fire at all. That was really dangerous for Serral.
On September 09 2019 03:27 Fango wrote: I feel bad for all the pro terrans going thors against broods right now. Even if their technical range is enough, the broods can shoot at whatever and then run away. Their effective range is much greater than seems intended
It's time to bring back the extra base armor on thors.
On September 09 2019 03:27 Fango wrote: I feel bad for all the pro terrans going thors against broods right now. Even if their technical range is enough, the broods can shoot at whatever and then run away. Their effective range is much greater than seems intended
It's time to bring back the extra base armor on thors.
On September 09 2019 03:32 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
On September 09 2019 03:30 Elentos wrote:
On September 09 2019 03:27 Fango wrote: I feel bad for all the pro terrans going thors against broods right now. Even if their technical range is enough, the broods can shoot at whatever and then run away. Their effective range is much greater than seems intended
It's time to bring back the extra base armor on thors.
On September 09 2019 03:37 Elentos wrote: Serral should be forced to play on custom maps where nydus is its Heart of the Swarm version.
Honestly which how popular nydus is now and how much zerg's realise it's potential, I think if we revert to HotS version we would still see it a lot from guys like Serral
On September 09 2019 03:37 Elentos wrote: Serral should be forced to play on custom maps where nydus is its Heart of the Swarm version.
Honestly which how popular nydus is now and how much zerg's realise it's potential, I think if we revert to HotS version we would still see it a lot from guys like Serral
Realize its potential? The worm used to cost twice as much minerals and gas.
On September 09 2019 03:37 Elentos wrote: Serral should be forced to play on custom maps where nydus is its Heart of the Swarm version.
Honestly which how popular nydus is now and how much zerg's realise it's potential, I think if we revert to HotS version we would still see it a lot from guys like Serral
Realize its potential? The worm used to cost twice as much minerals and gas.
I feel like the unload speed is a more significant problem than the cost, idk
On September 09 2019 03:37 Elentos wrote: Serral should be forced to play on custom maps where nydus is its Heart of the Swarm version.
Honestly which how popular nydus is now and how much zerg's realise it's potential, I think if we revert to HotS version we would still see it a lot from guys like Serral
Realize its potential? The worm used to cost twice as much minerals and gas.
On September 09 2019 03:37 Elentos wrote: Serral should be forced to play on custom maps where nydus is its Heart of the Swarm version.
Honestly which how popular nydus is now and how much zerg's realise it's potential, I think if we revert to HotS version we would still see it a lot from guys like Serral
Realize its potential? The worm used to cost twice as much minerals and gas.
On September 09 2019 03:37 Elentos wrote: Serral should be forced to play on custom maps where nydus is its Heart of the Swarm version.
Honestly which how popular nydus is now and how much zerg's realise it's potential, I think if we revert to HotS version we would still see it a lot from guys like Serral
Realize its potential? The worm used to cost twice as much minerals and gas.
and was killable by workers
and the nydus itself cost 200/200, and the units came out at half the speed etc etc. hots nydus was a proper work of art
On September 09 2019 03:37 Elentos wrote: Serral should be forced to play on custom maps where nydus is its Heart of the Swarm version.
Honestly which how popular nydus is now and how much zerg's realise it's potential, I think if we revert to HotS version we would still see it a lot from guys like Serral
Realize its potential? The worm used to cost twice as much minerals and gas.
And I still see zergs repeatedly throwing them down when they get cancelled/killed. With how LotV works in terms of speed and expansions, the HotS nydus would still be pretty good in my eyes.
edit: okay maybe not that good, but it would at least see use outside of Rogue
On September 09 2019 03:37 Elentos wrote: Serral should be forced to play on custom maps where nydus is its Heart of the Swarm version.
Honestly which how popular nydus is now and how much zerg's realise it's potential, I think if we revert to HotS version we would still see it a lot from guys like Serral
Realize its potential? The worm used to cost twice as much minerals and gas.
Nah, the real deal is unload speed.
I feel like nydus would already be so much more reasonable if you could only have 1 active worm per network. So if you have a worm in your opponent's natural you have to wait till it dies to plop one in another base, or invest in a 2nd network structure.
On September 09 2019 03:37 Elentos wrote: Serral should be forced to play on custom maps where nydus is its Heart of the Swarm version.
Honestly which how popular nydus is now and how much zerg's realise it's potential, I think if we revert to HotS version we would still see it a lot from guys like Serral
Realize its potential? The worm used to cost twice as much minerals and gas.
Nah, the real deal is unload speed.
I feel like nydus would already be so much more reasonable if you could only have 1 active worm per network. So if you have a worm in your opponent's natural you have to wait till it dies to plop one in another base, or invest in a 2nd network structure.
On September 09 2019 03:44 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
On September 09 2019 03:42 Ej_ wrote:
On September 09 2019 03:41 Fango wrote:
On September 09 2019 03:37 Elentos wrote: Serral should be forced to play on custom maps where nydus is its Heart of the Swarm version.
Honestly which how popular nydus is now and how much zerg's realise it's potential, I think if we revert to HotS version we would still see it a lot from guys like Serral
Realize its potential? The worm used to cost twice as much minerals and gas.
and was killable by workers
and the nydus itself cost 200/200, and the units came out at half the speed etc etc. hots nydus was a proper work of art
HotS was also a deathball fest where you wouldn't be suprised to never go past 3-4 bases, nydus was always gonna be worse
On September 09 2019 03:37 Elentos wrote: Serral should be forced to play on custom maps where nydus is its Heart of the Swarm version.
Honestly which how popular nydus is now and how much zerg's realise it's potential, I think if we revert to HotS version we would still see it a lot from guys like Serral
Realize its potential? The worm used to cost twice as much minerals and gas.
Nah, the real deal is unload speed.
I feel like nydus would already be so much more reasonable if you could only have 1 active worm per network. So if you have a worm in your opponent's natural you have to wait till it dies to plop one in another base, or invest in a 2nd network structure.
agreed but I would like to see an headbutt AND fart ability added to the 2 ends
On September 09 2019 03:37 Elentos wrote: Serral should be forced to play on custom maps where nydus is its Heart of the Swarm version.
Honestly which how popular nydus is now and how much zerg's realise it's potential, I think if we revert to HotS version we would still see it a lot from guys like Serral
Realize its potential? The worm used to cost twice as much minerals and gas.
Nah, the real deal is unload speed.
I feel like nydus would already be so much more reasonable if you could only have 1 active worm per network. So if you have a worm in your opponent's natural you have to wait till it dies to plop one in another base, or invest in a 2nd network structure.
agreed but I would like to see an headbutt AND fart ability added to the 2 ends
How do you envision that fart ability working exactly? Like a mix of fungal and blinding cloud maybe?
Worth reminding ppl the big problem with WoL BL-Infestor is how it helped boost the performance of a lot of mid-low level players, not just the top guys like Stephano or Leenock. Obviously it's frustrating to watch Serral wipe a top foreign Terran like HeroMarine in such a manner, but you're not giving WoL era BL-Infestor enough credit for being filthy when you compare the two
On September 09 2019 03:37 Elentos wrote: Serral should be forced to play on custom maps where nydus is its Heart of the Swarm version.
Honestly which how popular nydus is now and how much zerg's realise it's potential, I think if we revert to HotS version we would still see it a lot from guys like Serral
Realize its potential? The worm used to cost twice as much minerals and gas.
Nah, the real deal is unload speed.
I feel like nydus would already be so much more reasonable if you could only have 1 active worm per network. So if you have a worm in your opponent's natural you have to wait till it dies to plop one in another base, or invest in a 2nd network structure.
agreed but I would like to see an headbutt AND fart ability added to the 2 ends
How do you envision that fart ability working exactly? Like a mix of fungal and blinding cloud maybe?
Attacks that cause incinerations (i. e. hellions, colossi) will blow the fart up, which is the equivalent to a nuke.
On September 09 2019 03:37 Elentos wrote: Serral should be forced to play on custom maps where nydus is its Heart of the Swarm version.
Honestly which how popular nydus is now and how much zerg's realise it's potential, I think if we revert to HotS version we would still see it a lot from guys like Serral
Realize its potential? The worm used to cost twice as much minerals and gas.
Nah, the real deal is unload speed.
I feel like nydus would already be so much more reasonable if you could only have 1 active worm per network. So if you have a worm in your opponent's natural you have to wait till it dies to plop one in another base, or invest in a 2nd network structure.
agreed but I would like to see an headbutt AND fart ability added to the 2 ends
How do you envision that fart ability working exactly? Like a mix of fungal and blinding cloud maybe?
so like wet farts you're imagining, I like how you think
On September 09 2019 03:38 DBooN wrote: SC2 started at the end of WoL?
By the end of WoL, you mean like 2+ years of it, I guess.
2+ years? You mean, you think brood lord infestor was the composition prefered by FruitDealer?
On the top of my head, I still remember Kiwikaki-Stephano from IPL3 2011 which was October 2011 and at this point it was pretty popular strategy. So ~2 years is fair assessment I think. For sure its for the most part of WoL(which is what I meant with my original post). Fruitdealer won in mid 2010.
On September 09 2019 03:48 Elentos wrote: A top 4 in WCS that represents the actual top 4 of WCS, look at that.
Yeah, it's pretty clear who the best foreigners are, that'll be good for blizzcon. A shame that Korea won't be sending their best 8 too.
If we took everyone's most recent form soO might be the worst player to ever play at the WCS Global Finals.
I am pretty sure Lilbow and his "I practise for lotv" still takes the cake.
That's just hilariously ironic in hindsight simply because he got into that whole fight with TLO and then in the first big LotV tournament lost to TLO because he tried to play LotV like it was still HotS.
On September 09 2019 03:54 Waxangel wrote: Worth reminding ppl the big problem with WoL BL-Infestor is how it helped boost the performance of a lot of mid-low level players, not just the top guys like Stephano or Leenock. Obviously it's frustrating to watch Serral wipe a top foreign Terran like HeroMarine in such a manner, but you're not giving WoL era BL-Infestor enough credit for being filthy when you compare the two
On September 09 2019 03:37 Elentos wrote: Serral should be forced to play on custom maps where nydus is its Heart of the Swarm version.
Honestly which how popular nydus is now and how much zerg's realise it's potential, I think if we revert to HotS version we would still see it a lot from guys like Serral
Realize its potential? The worm used to cost twice as much minerals and gas.
Nah, the real deal is unload speed.
I feel like nydus would already be so much more reasonable if you could only have 1 active worm per network. So if you have a worm in your opponent's natural you have to wait till it dies to plop one in another base, or invest in a 2nd network structure.
agreed but I would like to see an headbutt AND fart ability added to the 2 ends
How do you envision that fart ability working exactly? Like a mix of fungal and blinding cloud maybe?
Attacks that cause incinerations (i. e. hellions, colossi) will blow the fart up, which is the equivalent to a nuke.
On September 09 2019 03:54 Waxangel wrote: Worth reminding ppl the big problem with WoL BL-Infestor is how it helped boost the performance of a lot of mid-low level players, not just the top guys like Stephano or Leenock. Obviously it's frustrating to watch Serral wipe a top foreign Terran like HeroMarine in such a manner, but you're not giving WoL era BL-Infestor enough credit for being filthy when you compare the two
We'll have this chat again when RagnaroK wins GSL
No but seriously nydus is more annoying than BL/infestor. It hurts your build up before the late game so much. It also stops you from doing timings before BLs because you don't want to sack your bases. And then there's the combo potential with swarm hosts too.
On September 09 2019 03:48 Elentos wrote: A top 4 in WCS that represents the actual top 4 of WCS, look at that.
Yeah, it's pretty clear who the best foreigners are, that'll be good for blizzcon. A shame that Korea won't be sending their best 8 too.
If we took everyone's most recent form soO might be the worst player to ever play at the WCS Global Finals.
I hope he at least practices for blizzcon. It looks like he can't be bothered to play anymore, whether he's just satisfied with winning IEM or given up completely is unknown.
On September 09 2019 03:37 Elentos wrote: Serral should be forced to play on custom maps where nydus is its Heart of the Swarm version.
Honestly which how popular nydus is now and how much zerg's realise it's potential, I think if we revert to HotS version we would still see it a lot from guys like Serral
Realize its potential? The worm used to cost twice as much minerals and gas.
Nah, the real deal is unload speed.
I feel like nydus would already be so much more reasonable if you could only have 1 active worm per network. So if you have a worm in your opponent's natural you have to wait till it dies to plop one in another base, or invest in a 2nd network structure.
agreed but I would like to see an headbutt AND fart ability added to the 2 ends
How do you envision that fart ability working exactly? Like a mix of fungal and blinding cloud maybe?
Attacks that cause incinerations (i. e. hellions, colossi) will blow the fart up, which is the equivalent to a nuke.
Wow, great idea. Such sophisticated gameplay too.
the initial building should be the head though so you can build asses in the enemy bases for some devastating fart-harass
For some reason this tweet rubs me the wrong way. It's almost as if he does not acknowledge that it was his play that lost him at least 1 of the games.
On September 09 2019 03:37 Elentos wrote: Serral should be forced to play on custom maps where nydus is its Heart of the Swarm version.
Honestly which how popular nydus is now and how much zerg's realise it's potential, I think if we revert to HotS version we would still see it a lot from guys like Serral
Realize its potential? The worm used to cost twice as much minerals and gas.
Nah, the real deal is unload speed.
I feel like nydus would already be so much more reasonable if you could only have 1 active worm per network. So if you have a worm in your opponent's natural you have to wait till it dies to plop one in another base, or invest in a 2nd network structure.
agreed but I would like to see an headbutt AND fart ability added to the 2 ends
How do you envision that fart ability working exactly? Like a mix of fungal and blinding cloud maybe?
Attacks that cause incinerations (i. e. hellions, colossi) will blow the fart up, which is the equivalent to a nuke.
Wow, great idea. Such sophisticated gameplay too.
the initial building should be the head though so you can build asses in the enemy bases for some devastating fart-harass
It's also more logical because things you ingest are more likely to go out the rear as opposed to the current nydus which ingests through its rear.
On September 09 2019 03:54 Waxangel wrote: Worth reminding ppl the big problem with WoL BL-Infestor is how it helped boost the performance of a lot of mid-low level players, not just the top guys like Stephano or Leenock. Obviously it's frustrating to watch Serral wipe a top foreign Terran like HeroMarine in such a manner, but you're not giving WoL era BL-Infestor enough credit for being filthy when you compare the two
Someone should make a thread about this
It is true that Bl/Infestor/Corruptor/Viper does not help at every professional level, and terran can still severely outplay worse zergs in LOTV.
However, if Broodlords destroy everything Terran on the ground (including supposed counters like Thors and Ghosts) and Corruptors destroy everything in the air for cost (including BCs) while Infestors and Vipers add situational tech, what does Terran really do? It is a bit silly tbh.
Zerg should be the aggro race, tbh, I have no problem with roach maxes, ravager rushes, bane busts and whatnot.
On September 09 2019 03:54 Waxangel wrote: Worth reminding ppl the big problem with WoL BL-Infestor is how it helped boost the performance of a lot of mid-low level players, not just the top guys like Stephano or Leenock. Obviously it's frustrating to watch Serral wipe a top foreign Terran like HeroMarine in such a manner, but you're not giving WoL era BL-Infestor enough credit for being filthy when you compare the two
Someone should make a thread about this
It is true that Bl/Infestor/Corruptor/Viper does not help at every professional level, and terran can still severely outplay worse zergs in LOTV.
However, if Broodlords destroy everything Terran on the ground (including supposed counters like Thors and Ghosts) and Corruptors destroy everything in the air for cost (including BCs) while Infestors and Vipers add situational tech, what does Terran really do? It is a bit silly tbh.
Zerg should be the aggro race, tbh, I have no problem with roach maxes, ravager rushes, bane busts and whatnot.
That's just not really in the racial design. Zerg is most likely to run out of steam off creep. They've taken the role of the reactive race for the vast majority of SC2 in ZvT at least.
On September 09 2019 03:54 Waxangel wrote: Worth reminding ppl the big problem with WoL BL-Infestor is how it helped boost the performance of a lot of mid-low level players, not just the top guys like Stephano or Leenock. Obviously it's frustrating to watch Serral wipe a top foreign Terran like HeroMarine in such a manner, but you're not giving WoL era BL-Infestor enough credit for being filthy when you compare the two
Someone should make a thread about this
It is true that Bl/Infestor/Corruptor/Viper does not help at every professional level, and terran can still severely outplay worse zergs in LOTV.
However, if Broodlords destroy everything Terran on the ground (including supposed counters like Thors and Ghosts) and Corruptors destroy everything in the air for cost (including BCs) while Infestors and Vipers add situational tech, what does Terran really do? It is a bit silly tbh.
Zerg should be the aggro race, tbh, I have no problem with roach maxes, ravager rushes, bane busts and whatnot.
Because if you remove broodlords or even nerf them, T/P will just turtle to a max god army and autowin every game. It's the same problem the game has always had.
On September 09 2019 03:54 Waxangel wrote: Worth reminding ppl the big problem with WoL BL-Infestor is how it helped boost the performance of a lot of mid-low level players, not just the top guys like Stephano or Leenock. Obviously it's frustrating to watch Serral wipe a top foreign Terran like HeroMarine in such a manner, but you're not giving WoL era BL-Infestor enough credit for being filthy when you compare the two
On September 09 2019 03:37 Elentos wrote: Serral should be forced to play on custom maps where nydus is its Heart of the Swarm version.
Honestly which how popular nydus is now and how much zerg's realise it's potential, I think if we revert to HotS version we would still see it a lot from guys like Serral
Realize its potential? The worm used to cost twice as much minerals and gas.
Nah, the real deal is unload speed.
I feel like nydus would already be so much more reasonable if you could only have 1 active worm per network. So if you have a worm in your opponent's natural you have to wait till it dies to plop one in another base, or invest in a 2nd network structure.
agreed but I would like to see an headbutt AND fart ability added to the 2 ends
How do you envision that fart ability working exactly? Like a mix of fungal and blinding cloud maybe?
Attacks that cause incinerations (i. e. hellions, colossi) will blow the fart up, which is the equivalent to a nuke.
Wow, great idea. Such sophisticated gameplay too.
the initial building should be the head though so you can build asses in the enemy bases for some devastating fart-harass
That would be so sick. A giant ass pops up and starts spraying farts which blind, slow, and damage the Terran units while bugs are shooting out of the ass. Then a hellion lights up and the whole mass is blown to pieces in a huge explosion. What a game that would be.
On September 09 2019 03:41 Fango wrote: [quote] Honestly which how popular nydus is now and how much zerg's realise it's potential, I think if we revert to HotS version we would still see it a lot from guys like Serral
Realize its potential? The worm used to cost twice as much minerals and gas.
Nah, the real deal is unload speed.
I feel like nydus would already be so much more reasonable if you could only have 1 active worm per network. So if you have a worm in your opponent's natural you have to wait till it dies to plop one in another base, or invest in a 2nd network structure.
agreed but I would like to see an headbutt AND fart ability added to the 2 ends
How do you envision that fart ability working exactly? Like a mix of fungal and blinding cloud maybe?
Attacks that cause incinerations (i. e. hellions, colossi) will blow the fart up, which is the equivalent to a nuke.
Wow, great idea. Such sophisticated gameplay too.
the initial building should be the head though so you can build asses in the enemy bases for some devastating fart-harass
That would be so sick. A giant ass pops up and starts spraying farts which blind, slow, and damage the Terran units while bugs are shooting out of the ass. Then a hellion lights up and the whole mass is blown to pieces in a huge explosion. What a game that would be.
the editor is waiting for you. Design the next Starbow
On September 09 2019 03:41 Fango wrote: [quote] Honestly which how popular nydus is now and how much zerg's realise it's potential, I think if we revert to HotS version we would still see it a lot from guys like Serral
Realize its potential? The worm used to cost twice as much minerals and gas.
Nah, the real deal is unload speed.
I feel like nydus would already be so much more reasonable if you could only have 1 active worm per network. So if you have a worm in your opponent's natural you have to wait till it dies to plop one in another base, or invest in a 2nd network structure.
agreed but I would like to see an headbutt AND fart ability added to the 2 ends
How do you envision that fart ability working exactly? Like a mix of fungal and blinding cloud maybe?
Attacks that cause incinerations (i. e. hellions, colossi) will blow the fart up, which is the equivalent to a nuke.
Wow, great idea. Such sophisticated gameplay too.
the initial building should be the head though so you can build asses in the enemy bases for some devastating fart-harass
That would be so sick. A giant ass pops up and starts spraying farts which blind, slow, and damage the Terran units while bugs are shooting out of the ass. Then a hellion lights up and the whole mass is blown to pieces in a huge explosion. What a game that would be.
Going banshees against a guy who goes overlord speed before ling speed is a bit of a FeelsBergMan situation. Still found good damage with them somehow.
On September 09 2019 03:42 Ej_ wrote: [quote] Realize its potential? The worm used to cost twice as much minerals and gas.
Nah, the real deal is unload speed.
I feel like nydus would already be so much more reasonable if you could only have 1 active worm per network. So if you have a worm in your opponent's natural you have to wait till it dies to plop one in another base, or invest in a 2nd network structure.
agreed but I would like to see an headbutt AND fart ability added to the 2 ends
How do you envision that fart ability working exactly? Like a mix of fungal and blinding cloud maybe?
Attacks that cause incinerations (i. e. hellions, colossi) will blow the fart up, which is the equivalent to a nuke.
Wow, great idea. Such sophisticated gameplay too.
the initial building should be the head though so you can build asses in the enemy bases for some devastating fart-harass
That would be so sick. A giant ass pops up and starts spraying farts which blind, slow, and damage the Terran units while bugs are shooting out of the ass. Then a hellion lights up and the whole mass is blown to pieces in a huge explosion. What a game that would be.
the editor is waiting for you. Design the next Starbow
On September 09 2019 03:42 Ej_ wrote: [quote] Realize its potential? The worm used to cost twice as much minerals and gas.
Nah, the real deal is unload speed.
I feel like nydus would already be so much more reasonable if you could only have 1 active worm per network. So if you have a worm in your opponent's natural you have to wait till it dies to plop one in another base, or invest in a 2nd network structure.
agreed but I would like to see an headbutt AND fart ability added to the 2 ends
How do you envision that fart ability working exactly? Like a mix of fungal and blinding cloud maybe?
Attacks that cause incinerations (i. e. hellions, colossi) will blow the fart up, which is the equivalent to a nuke.
Wow, great idea. Such sophisticated gameplay too.
the initial building should be the head though so you can build asses in the enemy bases for some devastating fart-harass
That would be so sick. A giant ass pops up and starts spraying farts which blind, slow, and damage the Terran units while bugs are shooting out of the ass. Then a hellion lights up and the whole mass is blown to pieces in a huge explosion. What a game that would be.
the editor is waiting for you. Design the next Starbow
Why are people always saying "game design is difficult etc etc". We just designed an amazing matchup in like 10 minutes, ezpz
He should have won game 1, but that is only because Serral went Ultras. Game 2 he could have killed more broods, but playing TvZ when the Zerg is a better player than you its just impossible in the current state. Nydus is straight up broken and BL range has a bad design.
I've said this before but I dislike how ling runbys are such a no-brainer process that is borderline automatic for top Zergs now. People who compare these ling runbys to Life's don't consider that back in those days, any runby could also cost the Zerg the game if it doesn't go well.
On September 09 2019 03:54 Waxangel wrote: Worth reminding ppl the big problem with WoL BL-Infestor is how it helped boost the performance of a lot of mid-low level players, not just the top guys like Stephano or Leenock. Obviously it's frustrating to watch Serral wipe a top foreign Terran like HeroMarine in such a manner, but you're not giving WoL era BL-Infestor enough credit for being filthy when you compare the two
That article implied Infestors being buffed was a conspiracy orchestrated by Blizzard to make foreigner win tournaments... It highlights well the lack of balance that existed back in the days, on the other hand.
On September 09 2019 04:16 Elentos wrote: I've said this before but I dislike how ling runbys are such a no-brainer process that is borderline automatic for top Zergs now. People who compare these ling runbys to Life's don't consider that back in those days, any runby could also cost the Zerg the game if it doesn't go well.
I've seen Reynor win games on stream by just grabbings lings, shift clicking them around the map, and forgetting about them
Reynor playstyle is so unclean and unstrategic. But for sure its entertaining, he is a total baller, just does not give a F with his aggressive engagements
On September 09 2019 03:54 Waxangel wrote: Worth reminding ppl the big problem with WoL BL-Infestor is how it helped boost the performance of a lot of mid-low level players, not just the top guys like Stephano or Leenock. Obviously it's frustrating to watch Serral wipe a top foreign Terran like HeroMarine in such a manner, but you're not giving WoL era BL-Infestor enough credit for being filthy when you compare the two
We don't have that many mid tier Zergs though. While I wasn't watching WCS, Stephano in the RO8? Is he getting good or driving on the wave of BL infestor? (I honestly don't know)
While the composition may not be as good as WoL one, we have different tempo of the game and different maps. And less mid tier players, look at WCS. All the RO8s look the same, where's the mid tier?
On September 09 2019 03:54 Waxangel wrote: Worth reminding ppl the big problem with WoL BL-Infestor is how it helped boost the performance of a lot of mid-low level players, not just the top guys like Stephano or Leenock. Obviously it's frustrating to watch Serral wipe a top foreign Terran like HeroMarine in such a manner, but you're not giving WoL era BL-Infestor enough credit for being filthy when you compare the two
We don't have that many mid tier Zergs though. While I wasn't watching WCS, Stephano in the RO8? Is he getting good or driving on the wave of BL infestor? (I honestly don't know)
While the composition may not be as good as WoL one, we have different tempo of the game and different maps. And less mid tier players, look at WCS. All the RO8s look the same, where's the mid tier?
Stephano used ling/bane. If the meta was as bad as 2012, Namshar, Zanster or even eonblue would be big threats to hm, TIME and Special.
Sad because I always want special to win. But he really has some stuff he needs to clean up in his game. Getting 2 bcs biled down, no splitting at important times, 0 protection on expansions just to name a few. Though of course if he cleans some of that up, his macro is gonna win him some big time games
On September 09 2019 03:54 Waxangel wrote: Worth reminding ppl the big problem with WoL BL-Infestor is how it helped boost the performance of a lot of mid-low level players, not just the top guys like Stephano or Leenock. Obviously it's frustrating to watch Serral wipe a top foreign Terran like HeroMarine in such a manner, but you're not giving WoL era BL-Infestor enough credit for being filthy when you compare the two
We don't have that many mid tier Zergs though. While I wasn't watching WCS, Stephano in the RO8? Is he getting good or driving on the wave of BL infestor? (I honestly don't know)
While the composition may not be as good as WoL one, we have different tempo of the game and different maps. And less mid tier players, look at WCS. All the RO8s look the same, where's the mid tier?
Stephano used ling/bane. If the meta was as bad as 2012, Namshar, Zanster or even eonblue would be big threats to hm, TIME and Special.
I actually don't think so, even back then the Zergs were not that bad. At least mid tier for me means they can threaten the top tier regularly and kick them out of the tourney. At this time Serral is the top tier and the rest of the WCS is the mid tier. Now this doesn't help, does it? Because the RO8 is the top tier and then is a big gap. I really think there's close to none mid tier.
On September 09 2019 05:20 TentativePanda wrote: Sad because I always want special to win. But he really has some stuff he needs to clean up in his game. Getting 2 bcs biled down, no splitting at important times, 0 protection on expansions just to name a few. Though of course if he cleans some of that up, his macro is gonna win him some big time games
I always root for mini-TY (big TY?) as well. But yeah I agree, his play always seems a bit coarse to me, he tries to do 120% as much as other players 80% as well. Really cool to see work, but it's just not consistent
On September 09 2019 03:54 Waxangel wrote: Worth reminding ppl the big problem with WoL BL-Infestor is how it helped boost the performance of a lot of mid-low level players, not just the top guys like Stephano or Leenock. Obviously it's frustrating to watch Serral wipe a top foreign Terran like HeroMarine in such a manner, but you're not giving WoL era BL-Infestor enough credit for being filthy when you compare the two
We don't have that many mid tier Zergs though. While I wasn't watching WCS, Stephano in the RO8? Is he getting good or driving on the wave of BL infestor? (I honestly don't know)
While the composition may not be as good as WoL one, we have different tempo of the game and different maps. And less mid tier players, look at WCS. All the RO8s look the same, where's the mid tier?
Stephano used ling/bane. If the meta was as bad as 2012, Namshar, Zanster or even eonblue would be big threats to hm, TIME and Special.
I actually don't think so, even back then the Zergs were not that bad. At least mid tier for me means they can threaten the top tier regularly and kick them out of the tourney. At this time Serral is the top tier and the rest of the WCS is the mid tier. Now this doesn't help, does it? Because the RO8 is the top tier and then is a big gap. I really think there's close to none mid tier.
Oh okok, I suppose jonsnow, Stephano could be considered as such and Lambo inbetween this year ?
On September 09 2019 05:20 TentativePanda wrote: Sad because I always want special to win. But he really has some stuff he needs to clean up in his game. Getting 2 bcs biled down, no splitting at important times, 0 protection on expansions just to name a few. Though of course if he cleans some of that up, his macro is gonna win him some big time games
To be honest, I'd say decision making hurts him more than mechanical errors. He continously takes fights on creep, by choice.
On September 09 2019 05:31 IvysaurEG wrote: The Top players are so consistent now that I would like to see round robin invitationals instead of single elimination brackets.
On September 09 2019 05:31 IvysaurEG wrote: The Top players are so consistent now that I would like to see round robin invitationals instead of single elimination brackets.
Or my beloved DE <3
Double elimination is one of the greatest things to happen to brackets ever and it's never used anymore
On September 09 2019 03:54 Waxangel wrote: Worth reminding ppl the big problem with WoL BL-Infestor is how it helped boost the performance of a lot of mid-low level players, not just the top guys like Stephano or Leenock. Obviously it's frustrating to watch Serral wipe a top foreign Terran like HeroMarine in such a manner, but you're not giving WoL era BL-Infestor enough credit for being filthy when you compare the two
We don't have that many mid tier Zergs though. While I wasn't watching WCS, Stephano in the RO8? Is he getting good or driving on the wave of BL infestor? (I honestly don't know)
While the composition may not be as good as WoL one, we have different tempo of the game and different maps. And less mid tier players, look at WCS. All the RO8s look the same, where's the mid tier?
Stephano used ling/bane. If the meta was as bad as 2012, Namshar, Zanster or even eonblue would be big threats to hm, TIME and Special.
I actually don't think so, even back then the Zergs were not that bad. At least mid tier for me means they can threaten the top tier regularly and kick them out of the tourney. At this time Serral is the top tier and the rest of the WCS is the mid tier. Now this doesn't help, does it? Because the RO8 is the top tier and then is a big gap. I really think there's close to none mid tier.
Oh okok, I suppose jonsnow, Stephano could be considered as such and Lambo inbetween this year ?
Yeah, those are probably the only players. I don't know foreign scene very much, to me it just seems the difference is too big between the top and the next tier. Maybe Scarlett in her current form? But I don't know he form or if she plays the game anymore.
On September 09 2019 05:42 Nakajin wrote: Fun fact last time there was a WCS stop without a zerg in the final we thought Lilbow was on his way to be the foreign GOAT
He's still on his way to be the foreign GOAT in SC3.
On September 09 2019 05:42 Nakajin wrote: Fun fact last time there was a WCS stop without a zerg in the final we thought Lilbow was on his way to be the foreign GOAT
He's still on his way to be the foreign GOAT in SC3.
On September 09 2019 05:47 Topin wrote: the fist of neeb? i need a historian here pls
He played a stupidly long game vs Rogue a couple blizzcons ago that ended with Neeb having almost 200 supply of pure skytoss. Which the casters dubbed "the fist of Neeb"
On September 09 2019 05:47 Topin wrote: the fist of neeb? i need a historian here pls
199 army supply and 1 probe against Rogue at the 2017 Global Finals in the most boring game of all time that people inexplicably loved. Truly the Titanic of SC2 games.
On September 09 2019 05:47 Topin wrote: the fist of neeb? i need a historian here pls
It's from an old Blizzcon (I think) match between Rogue and Neeb, basically Neeb sack all his probe except one and build a 199 supply army than beat Rogue ultra late game army.
I smell a stomp here. Neeb has been looking solid, but not that much in PvZ. And as a bonus, he seems to shit his pants every time he plays Serral this year
On September 09 2019 05:59 MarianoSC2 wrote: I smell a stomp here. Neeb has been looking solid, but not that much in PvZ. And as a bonus, he seems to shit his pants every time he plays Serral this year
Well, he said he was fine with losing to him. Sounds like his mindset is wrong already...
On September 09 2019 05:59 MarianoSC2 wrote: I smell a stomp here. Neeb has been looking solid, but not that much in PvZ. And as a bonus, he seems to shit his pants every time he plays Serral this year
Well, he said he was fine with losing to him. Sounds like his mindset is wrong already...
Neeb in general seems like he sometimes has some issue with his mentality.
On September 09 2019 06:07 IvysaurEG wrote: ZvZ in LotV is a joy to watch so I am looking forward to these finals. The haters of ZvZ must be stuck in the WoL or HotS days.
Tends to become boring seeing them in (almost) every wcs finals
On September 09 2019 06:07 IvysaurEG wrote: ZvZ in LotV is a joy to watch so I am looking forward to these finals. The haters of ZvZ must be stuck in the WoL or HotS days.
Yah LotV ZvZ is better than WoL or HotS, doesn't mean I wanna see it every final. There's a solid five other matchups that exist
On September 09 2019 05:59 MarianoSC2 wrote: I smell a stomp here. Neeb has been looking solid, but not that much in PvZ. And as a bonus, he seems to shit his pants every time he plays Serral this year
I agree this doesn’t look good for neeb but they’ve each won one series against each other this year before today. Not sure how thats’s “shitting his pants everytime”
On September 09 2019 06:05 Pr0wler wrote: Wtf was that, Neeb ? At this point Serral doesn't even have to try. His opponents are so scared that they defeat themselves.
This is very true. Serral is probably the best player in the world, but foreigners show such weak loser mentality against him. They are basically defeated before the games start and then just provide a shit-show to further prove this point. The only exceptions are Reynor (who is just a crazy bastard and has no nerves lol) and Time (who is Chinese).
On September 09 2019 06:07 IvysaurEG wrote: ZvZ in LotV is a joy to watch so I am looking forward to these finals. The haters of ZvZ must be stuck in the WoL or HotS days.
Tends to become boring seeing them in (almost) every wcs finals
I actually like high level zvz but it feels a bit repetitive. Even if the narrative king vs prodigy is quite enjoyable.
On September 09 2019 06:07 IvysaurEG wrote: ZvZ in LotV is a joy to watch so I am looking forward to these finals. The haters of ZvZ must be stuck in the WoL or HotS days.
I'm getting old. Don't have it in me to pretend that I find it impressive that we get the same finals every time. I'm losing a lot of the interest I have left, quite fast.
By the way, what has happened to Nerchio? Did he fall behind in rankings because of Serral? Lack of motivation? I don't see him in tournaments anymore.
On September 09 2019 06:05 Pr0wler wrote: Wtf was that, Neeb ? At this point Serral doesn't even have to try. His opponents are so scared that they defeat themselves.
This is very true. Serral is probably the best player in the world, but foreigners show such weak loser mentality against him. They are basically defeated before the games start and then just provide a shit-show to further prove this point. The only exceptions are Reynor (who is just a crazy bastard and has no nerves lol) and Time (who is Chinese).
This is true. Even Heromarine, who was literally in a position to beat him and screwed up, was saying that it was always impossible to beat him anyway.
On September 09 2019 06:12 Elentos wrote: Same finals for WCS 3 times this year and the only reason it wasn't 4 times is because that time Reynor and Serral met in the Ro4 basically.
Could really go for something new but the other players don't seem competitive in this format.
Blizzard going to start paying Serral and Reynor not to compete in WCS and give them seeds to blizzcon
On September 09 2019 06:12 Elentos wrote: Same finals for WCS 3 times this year and the only reason it wasn't 4 times is because that time Reynor and Serral met in the Ro4 basically.
Could really go for something new but the other players don't seem competitive in this format.
Yeah i feel like Zerg benefits the most from less prep time, but also hurts the most if there is prep time involved.
On September 09 2019 06:12 Elentos wrote: Same finals for WCS 3 times this year and the only reason it wasn't 4 times is because that time Reynor and Serral met in the Ro4 basically.
Could really go for something new but the other players don't seem competitive in this format.
The top foreigners are quite literally doing to WCS what koreans would do if allowed in. Good thing they're not korean and no one will complain to the point they get locked out.
Protoss just has a lower skill ceiling than Zerg in ZvP. I don't think there's anything any Protoss can do when up against a Zerg playing at Serral's usual level.
On September 09 2019 06:26 Empirimancer wrote: Protoss just has a lower skill ceiling than Zerg in ZvP. I don't think there's anything any Protoss can do when up against a Zerg playing at Serral's usual level.
Ok, what about terran then? Why doesn't terran win against Serral? This isn't an excuse.
On September 09 2019 06:26 Empirimancer wrote: Protoss just has a lower skill ceiling than Zerg in ZvP. I don't think there's anything any Protoss can do when up against a Zerg playing at Serral's usual level.
On September 09 2019 06:26 Empirimancer wrote: Protoss just has a lower skill ceiling than Zerg in ZvP. I don't think there's anything any Protoss can do when up against a Zerg playing at Serral's usual level.
On September 09 2019 06:26 Empirimancer wrote: Protoss just has a lower skill ceiling than Zerg in ZvP. I don't think there's anything any Protoss can do when up against a Zerg playing at Serral's usual level.
Zerg is absurd right now. Elazer in GSL vs the world, Ragnarok and Rogue in GSL. Now this. It's starting to get a bit silly that everyone thinks they are just all better than all the players of the other races.
On September 09 2019 06:26 Empirimancer wrote: Protoss just has a lower skill ceiling than Zerg in ZvP. I don't think there's anything any Protoss can do when up against a Zerg playing at Serral's usual level.
Stats does not like this post
Stats isn't going to beat Serral consistently.
Yes considering he would probably retire next year he's not going to play any starcraft consistently very soon.
On September 09 2019 06:12 Elentos wrote: Same finals for WCS 3 times this year and the only reason it wasn't 4 times is because that time Reynor and Serral met in the Ro4 basically.
Could really go for something new but the other players don't seem competitive in this format.
The top foreigners are quite literally doing to WCS what koreans would do if allowed in. Good thing they're not korean and no one will complain to the point they get locked out.
Well, at least, with Koreans allowed in, we would get more top level gameplay and more non-ZvZ finals.
On September 09 2019 06:29 JJH777 wrote: Zerg is absurd right now. Elazer in GSL vs the world, Ragnarok and Rogue in GSL. Now this. It's starting to get a bit silly that everyone thinks they are just all better than all the players of the other races.
Elazer's road was ZvZ and then beating foreigners until he got 4-2d by Serral, y'know?
On September 09 2019 06:26 Empirimancer wrote: Protoss just has a lower skill ceiling than Zerg in ZvP. I don't think there's anything any Protoss can do when up against a Zerg playing at Serral's usual level.
Stats does not like this post
Stats isn't going to beat Serral consistently.
Yes considering he would probably retire next year he's not going to play any starcraft consistently very soon.
A large percentage of his map wins included a bunch of drones getting stuck in stasis several times. That's not really something that you can rely on when talking skill ceiling. I trust Serral has already worked on that since last time.
On September 09 2019 06:26 Empirimancer wrote: Protoss just has a lower skill ceiling than Zerg in ZvP. I don't think there's anything any Protoss can do when up against a Zerg playing at Serral's usual level.
Stats does not like this post
Stats isn't going to beat Serral consistently.
They are 2:2 games and 10:10 maps. That seems quite consistent to me.
On September 09 2019 06:34 Fango wrote: Is Stats the perfect protoss player? I think a mix between herO, Classic, and Stats would be preferable in terms of skill ceiling.
On September 09 2019 06:26 Empirimancer wrote: Protoss just has a lower skill ceiling than Zerg in ZvP. I don't think there's anything any Protoss can do when up against a Zerg playing at Serral's usual level.
Stats does not like this post
Stats isn't going to beat Serral consistently.
They are 2:2 games and 10:10 maps. That seems quite consistent to me.
On September 09 2019 06:34 Fango wrote: Is Stats the perfect protoss player? I think a mix between herO, Classic, and Stats would be preferable in terms of skill ceiling.
if he only cheesed a bit more
tbf most time I see him cheese it fails disastrously.
On September 09 2019 06:26 Empirimancer wrote: Protoss just has a lower skill ceiling than Zerg in ZvP. I don't think there's anything any Protoss can do when up against a Zerg playing at Serral's usual level.
Ok, what about terran then? Why doesn't terran win against Serral? This isn't an excuse.
Terran doesn't win against Serral, but it doesn't look nearly as hopeless when they lose. We've just seen HeroMarine vs Serral followed by Neeb vs Serral. It isn't just that Gabe came close to winning all three of the games, it's that you could point out what he needed to do to win. For Neeb, it just looked hopeless from start to finish.
On September 09 2019 06:26 Empirimancer wrote: Protoss just has a lower skill ceiling than Zerg in ZvP. I don't think there's anything any Protoss can do when up against a Zerg playing at Serral's usual level.
Stats would like a word
IIRC Serral wasn't at his usual level vs Stats last time. If they played a best of 9 right now I'd expect Serral to win 5-0.
On September 09 2019 06:34 Fango wrote: Is Stats the perfect protoss player? I think a mix between herO, Classic, and Stats would be preferable in terms of skill ceiling.
With sOs designing the builds of course, the ultimate archon would be forged
On September 09 2019 06:34 Fango wrote: Is Stats the perfect protoss player? I think a mix between herO, Classic, and Stats would be preferable in terms of skill ceiling.
if he only cheesed a bit more
tbf most time I see him cheese it fails disastrously.
Is Stats bad at cheese because he never does it? Or does he rarely cheese because he's bad at it?
It's probably both, but I still think he'd be way better if he had the build order prowess of Classic or the mechanical skill/cheesyness of herO.
On September 09 2019 06:25 kaykoose wrote: I ask this every WCS... but why does the winner run up to the loser to shake hands? It irks me every time
A tradition, so don't find logic in it.
It always irks me since that Naniwa incident as well, but since it's a tradition, i learned to ignored it.
Usually shaking hands is seen a sign of respect toward the opponent, in western culture; what's your problem with it?
In traditional sports the loser offfers to shake the winners hand. The winner doesn't force themself upon the loser to get the obligatory handshake everyone wants to see like in SC2.
On September 09 2019 06:26 Empirimancer wrote: Protoss just has a lower skill ceiling than Zerg in ZvP. I don't think there's anything any Protoss can do when up against a Zerg playing at Serral's usual level.
Stats would like a word
IIRC Serral wasn't at his usual level vs Stats last time. If they played a best of 9 right now I'd expect Serral to win 5-0.
And that's because Stats is not at his usual level right now, if they played a best of 9 a month ago I'd expect Stats to win 5-0
On September 09 2019 06:34 Fango wrote: Is Stats the perfect protoss player? I think a mix between herO, Classic, and Stats would be preferable in terms of skill ceiling.
if he only cheesed a bit more
tbf most time I see him cheese it fails disastrously.
Is Stats bad at cheese because he never does it? Or does he rarely cheese because he's bad at it?
It's probably both, but I still think he'd be way better if he had the build order prowess of Classic or the mechanical skill/cheesyness of herO.
On September 09 2019 06:34 Fango wrote: Is Stats the perfect protoss player? I think a mix between herO, Classic, and Stats would be preferable in terms of skill ceiling.
With sOs designing the builds of course, the ultimate archon would be forged
Honestly Classic is better at designing builds, but sOs is better at tailoring/choosing builds to exploit specific opponents.
For example proving to everyone that herO never scouted his main in PvP. Or the entire final vs Jaedong. Or the final vs MKP. Or blizzcon ro8 vs Maru's proxyrax.
sOs didn't invent any of those builds iirc, but he knew when to use them to get easy wins.
On September 09 2019 06:34 Fango wrote: Is Stats the perfect protoss player? I think a mix between herO, Classic, and Stats would be preferable in terms of skill ceiling.
if he only cheesed a bit more
tbf most time I see him cheese it fails disastrously.
Is Stats bad at cheese because he never does it? Or does he rarely cheese because he's bad at it?
It's probably both, but I still think he'd be way better if he had the build order prowess of Classic or the mechanical skill/cheesyness of herO.
Most likely the latter, he's just not the cheese type. This is reflected in other aspects of his play as well, for example I don't really agree his mechanic skill is inferior to that of herO but it looks that way because he's much more conservative when it comes to micro/engagements so you don't see flashy moves from him as often as you will do from the likes of herO or PartinG.
On September 09 2019 06:34 Fango wrote: Is Stats the perfect protoss player? I think a mix between herO, Classic, and Stats would be preferable in terms of skill ceiling.
With sOs designing the builds of course, the ultimate archon would be forged
Honestly Classic is better at designing builds, but sOs is better at tailoring/choosing builds to exploit specific opponents.
For example proving to everyone that herO never scouted his main in PvP. Or the entire final vs Jaedong. Or the final vs MKP. Or blizzcon ro8 vs Maru's proxyrax.
sOs didn't invent any of those builds iirc, but he knew when to use them to get easy wins.
sOs didn't do any exploit, he just maphacked the first game and then Maru had a breakdown. Like rewatch the game, if this would have been posted in the cheater thread on this forum many people would be blaming sOs of hacks That's what happens when you practice most of the year with the same partner
On September 09 2019 06:25 kaykoose wrote: I ask this every WCS... but why does the winner run up to the loser to shake hands? It irks me every time
A tradition, so don't find logic in it.
It always irks me since that Naniwa incident as well, but since it's a tradition, i learned to ignored it.
Usually shaking hands is seen a sign of respect toward the opponent, in western culture; what's your problem with it?
In traditional sports the loser offfers to shake the winners hand. The winner doesn't force themself upon the loser to get the obligatory handshake everyone wants to see like in SC2.
Which traditional sports? In football its always the winners who come to cheer up the players of the losing team, picking them up from the ground, offering handshakes. The same is in boxing, tennis (here its maybe more even), or basically any other sport where 2 or more professionals who respect each other are battling it out.
Its good sportsmanship, and also basic psychology. The winner is happy, the loser is sad. The winner comes offering comfort and sign of respect to the opponent, transferring some of that positive feelings and cheering him up a bit. Its a great tradition
I love watching Serral and Reynor individually and their rivalry has been really cool but It would be nice to have a protoss or a Terran that didnt get 0-4'ed in the finals.
On September 09 2019 06:25 kaykoose wrote: I ask this every WCS... but why does the winner run up to the loser to shake hands? It irks me every time
A tradition, so don't find logic in it.
It always irks me since that Naniwa incident as well, but since it's a tradition, i learned to ignored it.
Usually shaking hands is seen a sign of respect toward the opponent, in western culture; what's your problem with it?
In traditional sports the loser offfers to shake the winners hand. The winner doesn't force themself upon the loser to get the obligatory handshake everyone wants to see like in SC2.
Which traditional sports? In football its always the winners who come to cheer up the players of the losing team, picking them up from the ground, offering handshakes. The same is in boxing, tennis (here its maybe more even), or basically any other sport where 2 or more professionals who respect each other are battling it out.
Its good sportsmanship, and also basic psychology. The winner is happy, the loser is sad. The winner comes offering comfort and sign of respect to the opponent, transferring some of that positive feelings and cheering him up a bit. Its a great tradition
Yeah, we saw so many cheering and offering the comfort these days. Usually they just shake hands and go away. In such way it should follow the standard of a loser offering the handshake.
On September 09 2019 06:25 kaykoose wrote: I ask this every WCS... but why does the winner run up to the loser to shake hands? It irks me every time
A tradition, so don't find logic in it.
It always irks me since that Naniwa incident as well, but since it's a tradition, i learned to ignored it.
Usually shaking hands is seen a sign of respect toward the opponent, in western culture; what's your problem with it?
In traditional sports the loser offfers to shake the winners hand. The winner doesn't force themself upon the loser to get the obligatory handshake everyone wants to see like in SC2.
Not necessarily. Personally, I see the winner offering the handshake as sportmanship.
On September 09 2019 06:25 kaykoose wrote: I ask this every WCS... but why does the winner run up to the loser to shake hands? It irks me every time
A tradition, so don't find logic in it.
It always irks me since that Naniwa incident as well, but since it's a tradition, i learned to ignored it.
Usually shaking hands is seen a sign of respect toward the opponent, in western culture; what's your problem with it?
In traditional sports the loser offfers to shake the winners hand. The winner doesn't force themself upon the loser to get the obligatory handshake everyone wants to see like in SC2.
Which traditional sports? In football its always the winners who come to cheer up the players of the losing team, picking them up from the ground, offering handshakes. The same is in boxing, tennis (here its maybe more even), or basically any other sport where 2 or more professionals who respect each other are battling it out.
Its good sportsmanship, and also basic psychology. The winner is happy, the loser is sad. The winner comes offering comfort and sign of respect to the opponent, transferring some of that positive feelings and cheering him up a bit. Its a great tradition
Yeah, we saw so many cheering and offering the comfort these days. Usually they just shake hands and go away. In such way it should follow the standard of a loser offering the handshake.
Well these guys are nerds, different standards from other sports, but the intention is the same
I feel that how the handshake currently work is mostly due to logistic and how show is run. Loser needs to collect his mouse and keyboard before leaving the stage, while winner needs to do the interview with host first. Thus winner gets up and the loser could come to the middle for handshake and maybe walk off the stage, but for some reason that isn't done. Also maybe event organisers want to keep moving on the stage at minimum.
On September 09 2019 06:48 Pr0wler wrote: Most likely the last match in the WCS Circuit. Enjoy the show !
Do you mean for the year or ever?
Ever. I could be wrong but I got the sense yesterday that Kaelaris accidentally hinted at it even, before a Stephano match.
Oh no =/ What did he say?
Probably said last WCS Circuit event, but could easily mean of the year and people read into it to much.
No one knows if WCS will continue next year so obviously it means nothing.
Edit: Just consider how late every single change in sc2 events have been communicated. You really think a random caster would know about Blizzards decision at the end of the year before even blizzcon numbers are in? Ludicrous
On September 09 2019 06:48 Pr0wler wrote: Most likely the last match in the WCS Circuit. Enjoy the show !
Do you mean for the year or ever?
Ever. I could be wrong but I got the sense yesterday that Kaelaris accidentally hinted at it even, before a Stephano match.
What did he say ?
He said something like it being fitting for Stephano returning to form at the end [of SC2]. I noticed the others at the desk looking a bit worried about what he said. Maybe I made too much of it though.
On September 09 2019 06:25 kaykoose wrote: I ask this every WCS... but why does the winner run up to the loser to shake hands? It irks me every time
A tradition, so don't find logic in it.
It always irks me since that Naniwa incident as well, but since it's a tradition, i learned to ignored it.
Usually shaking hands is seen a sign of respect toward the opponent, in western culture; what's your problem with it?
In traditional sports the loser offfers to shake the winners hand. The winner doesn't force themself upon the loser to get the obligatory handshake everyone wants to see like in SC2.
Which traditional sports? In football its always the winners who come to cheer up the players of the losing team, picking them up from the ground, offering handshakes. The same is in boxing, tennis (here its maybe more even), or basically any other sport where 2 or more professionals who respect each other are battling it out.
Its good sportsmanship, and also basic psychology. The winner is happy, the loser is sad. The winner comes offering comfort and sign of respect to the opponent, transferring some of that positive feelings and cheering him up a bit. Its a great tradition
Yeah, we saw so many cheering and offering the comfort these days. Usually they just shake hands and go away. In such way it should follow the standard of a loser offering the handshake.
Well these guys are nerds, different standards from other sports, but the intention is the same
For me this is like offensive GG. Hey, I just won, so I force you to shake my hand because reasons!!#@$!
On September 09 2019 07:07 Fango wrote: I'd give it 50/50 of blizzard renewing wcs for next year. Just my opinion of course
I'm hoping for a single circuit instead of the 2 we have now. This way they can cut costs and it would also mean the end of the region lock obviously.
It would end the Code S and the Korean scene most probably. The only two things I like about SC2. So, uh, yeah. Would have to find another game to watch.
On September 09 2019 07:07 Fango wrote: I'd give it 50/50 of blizzard renewing wcs for next year. Just my opinion of course
I'm hoping for a single circuit instead of the 2 we have now. This way they can cut costs and it would also mean the end of the region lock obviously.
It would end the Code S and the Korean scene most probably. The only two things I like about SC2. So, uh, yeah. Would have to find another game to watch.
I really don't care much for any of the other esports :/
But maybe SC2 will still be worth watching next year, we'll see
On September 09 2019 06:48 Pr0wler wrote: Most likely the last match in the WCS Circuit. Enjoy the show !
Shutting down WCS in the year of Sc2's tenth anniversary? You sound way too happy about that anyway.
Of course I do. I just followed this game for the past 10 years and I want it dead.
This opinion is unworthy of a Sc2 forum, such a negative attitude. Go watch something else if you want this game dead!
SC2 has no competition in its space and it's making decent money. No way Blizzard will abandon the pro scene any time soon. Not everyone wants to play or spend money on battle royale.
On September 09 2019 06:48 Pr0wler wrote: Most likely the last match in the WCS Circuit. Enjoy the show !
Shutting down WCS in the year of Sc2's tenth anniversary? You sound way too happy about that anyway.
Of course I do. I just followed this game for the past 10 years and I want it dead.
This opinion is unworthy of a Sc2 forum, such a negative attitude. Go watch something else if you want this game dead!
Not like WCS ending would kill SC2 anyway, I'm sure the pro scene would somewhat die, but some tournaments and players would still exist, just like they always did in Wc3.
Yeah Serral can't play late game versus any race. The only games he won were when he cheesed or did some sort of weird timings and got Lucky. That's all.
On September 09 2019 06:48 Pr0wler wrote: Most likely the last match in the WCS Circuit. Enjoy the show !
Shutting down WCS in the year of Sc2's tenth anniversary? You sound way too happy about that anyway.
Of course I do. I just followed this game for the past 10 years and I want it dead.
This opinion is unworthy of a Sc2 forum, such a negative attitude. Go watch something else if you want this game dead!
SC2 has no competition in its space and it's making decent money. No way Blizzard will abandon the pro scene any time soon. Not everyone wants to play or spend money on battle royale.
How do you know it is doing decent money? Can you share the sources? Because from all we know they were reducing money going into the scene, so it doesn't seem so
On September 09 2019 06:48 Pr0wler wrote: Most likely the last match in the WCS Circuit. Enjoy the show !
Shutting down WCS in the year of Sc2's tenth anniversary? You sound way too happy about that anyway.
Of course I do. I just followed this game for the past 10 years and I want it dead.
This opinion is unworthy of a Sc2 forum, such a negative attitude. Go watch something else if you want this game dead!
SC2 has no competition in its space and it's making decent money. No way Blizzard will abandon the pro scene any time soon. Not everyone wants to play or spend money on battle royale.
This is my feeling too, and I very much hope you are right. SC2 has been part of my life for so long, not exactly keen on seeing it go :|
On September 09 2019 06:48 Pr0wler wrote: Most likely the last match in the WCS Circuit. Enjoy the show !
Shutting down WCS in the year of Sc2's tenth anniversary? You sound way too happy about that anyway.
Of course I do. I just followed this game for the past 10 years and I want it dead.
This opinion is unworthy of a Sc2 forum, such a negative attitude. Go watch something else if you want this game dead!
SC2 has no competition in its space and it's making decent money. No way Blizzard will abandon the pro scene any time soon. Not everyone wants to play or spend money on battle royale.
How do you know it is doing decent money? Can you share the sources? Because from all we know they were reducing money going into the scene, so it doesn't seem so
On September 09 2019 06:48 Pr0wler wrote: Most likely the last match in the WCS Circuit. Enjoy the show !
Shutting down WCS in the year of Sc2's tenth anniversary? You sound way too happy about that anyway.
Of course I do. I just followed this game for the past 10 years and I want it dead.
This opinion is unworthy of a Sc2 forum, such a negative attitude. Go watch something else if you want this game dead!
SC2 has no competition in its space and it's making decent money. No way Blizzard will abandon the pro scene any time soon. Not everyone wants to play or spend money on battle royale.
How do you know it is doing decent money? Can you share the sources? Because from all we know they were reducing money going into the scene, so it doesn't seem so
I don't think Bobby is interested in making decent money anyway, just shitloads or it aint worth the trouble
On September 09 2019 06:48 Pr0wler wrote: Most likely the last match in the WCS Circuit. Enjoy the show !
Shutting down WCS in the year of Sc2's tenth anniversary? You sound way too happy about that anyway.
Of course I do. I just followed this game for the past 10 years and I want it dead.
This opinion is unworthy of a Sc2 forum, such a negative attitude. Go watch something else if you want this game dead!
SC2 has no competition in its space and it's making decent money. No way Blizzard will abandon the pro scene any time soon. Not everyone wants to play or spend money on battle royale.
How do you know it is doing decent money? Can you share the sources? Because from all we know they were reducing money going into the scene, so it doesn't seem so
I don't think Bobby is interested in making decent money anyway, just shitloads or it aint worth the trouble
On September 09 2019 06:48 Pr0wler wrote: Most likely the last match in the WCS Circuit. Enjoy the show !
Shutting down WCS in the year of Sc2's tenth anniversary? You sound way too happy about that anyway.
Of course I do. I just followed this game for the past 10 years and I want it dead.
This opinion is unworthy of a Sc2 forum, such a negative attitude. Go watch something else if you want this game dead!
Not like WCS ending would kill SC2 anyway, I'm sure the pro scene would somewhat die, but some tournaments and players would still exist, just like they always did in Wc3.
He specifically said that he wants the game dead. I agree that shutting down WCS wouldn't outright kill Sc2.
On September 09 2019 06:48 Pr0wler wrote: Most likely the last match in the WCS Circuit. Enjoy the show !
Shutting down WCS in the year of Sc2's tenth anniversary? You sound way too happy about that anyway.
Of course I do. I just followed this game for the past 10 years and I want it dead.
This opinion is unworthy of a Sc2 forum, such a negative attitude. Go watch something else if you want this game dead!
Not like WCS ending would kill SC2 anyway, I'm sure the pro scene would somewhat die, but some tournaments and players would still exist, just like they always did in Wc3.
He specifically said that he wants the game dead. I agree that shutting down WCS wouldn't outright kill Sc2.
On September 09 2019 06:48 Pr0wler wrote: Most likely the last match in the WCS Circuit. Enjoy the show !
Shutting down WCS in the year of Sc2's tenth anniversary? You sound way too happy about that anyway.
Of course I do. I just followed this game for the past 10 years and I want it dead.
This opinion is unworthy of a Sc2 forum, such a negative attitude. Go watch something else if you want this game dead!
Not like WCS ending would kill SC2 anyway, I'm sure the pro scene would somewhat die, but some tournaments and players would still exist, just like they always did in Wc3.
He specifically said that he wants the game dead. I agree that shutting down WCS wouldn't outright kill Sc2.
On September 09 2019 07:40 evanreyes94 wrote: Yeah Serral can't play late game versus any race. The only games he won were when he cheesed or did some sort of weird timings and got Lucky. That's all.
Rewatch Serral vs Rogue played at BlizzCon or Serral vs Inno at ASUS Rog.
On September 09 2019 07:40 evanreyes94 wrote: Yeah Serral can't play late game versus any race. The only games he won were when he cheesed or did some sort of weird timings and got Lucky. That's all.
Rewatch Serral vs Rogue played at BlizzCon or Serral vs Inno at ASUS Rog.
On September 09 2019 07:40 evanreyes94 wrote: Yeah Serral can't play late game versus any race. The only games he won were when he cheesed or did some sort of weird timings and got Lucky. That's all.
lol what?
Serral is the best late gamer there is. Vs all races
All this Serral kid did was Nydus rush. The only game that was good was game 1. Holy shit... Serral really can't play late game and everyone knows it. Reynor is a better player than Serral by far.
On September 09 2019 08:02 evanreyes94 wrote: All this Serral kid did was Nydus rush. The only game that was good was game 1. Holy shit... Serral really can't play late game and everyone knows it. Reynor is a better player than Serral by far.
On September 09 2019 08:02 evanreyes94 wrote: All this Serral kid did was Nydus rush. The only game that was good was game 1. Holy shit... Serral really can't play late game and everyone knows it. Reynor is a better player than Serral by far.
On September 09 2019 08:02 evanreyes94 wrote: All this Serral kid did was Nydus rush. The only game that was good was game 1. Holy shit... Serral really can't play late game and everyone knows it. Reynor is a better player than Serral by far.
Is this guy some kind of new LR entertainer?
yeah, could be a PBU
All of Serral's games against Reynor that he won were rushes or timings. The one time he played a macro game was the first one. After that, it was all Nydus rushes. You know where else I see nothing but Nydus Worms? Bronze League Hero.
On September 09 2019 08:02 lolfail9001 wrote: Man, Serral was so close to just 4-0ing this series.
Yeah, sad about this. Then again Reynor is a high calibre player. GG Serral! Was a nice tournament, the game 1 of the grand final was the best game that I viewed. It sure felt bad the other games after it were pretty onesided though.
On September 09 2019 08:02 evanreyes94 wrote: All this Serral kid did was Nydus rush. The only game that was good was game 1. Holy shit... Serral really can't play late game and everyone knows it. Reynor is a better player than Serral by far.
Is this guy some kind of new LR entertainer?
yeah, could be a PBU
All of Serral's games against Reynor that he won were rushes or timings. The one time he played a macro game was the first one. After that, it was all Nydus rushes. You know where else I see nothing but Nydus Worms? Bronze League Hero.
Ofc you see them in bronze league a lot. Because obviously that's where you are playing...
On September 09 2019 08:02 evanreyes94 wrote: All this Serral kid did was Nydus rush. The only game that was good was game 1. Holy shit... Serral really can't play late game and everyone knows it. Reynor is a better player than Serral by far.
Is this guy some kind of new LR entertainer?
yeah, could be a PBU
All of Serral's games against Reynor that he won were rushes or timings. The one time he played a macro game was the first one. After that, it was all Nydus rushes. You know where else I see nothing but Nydus Worms? Bronze League Hero.
...aaand another win for Serral. This is getting predictable as Serral has become some kind of cosmic horror of WCS. I haven't seen anyone being currently as open about their "defeatism". Seems like everyone expect just simply to lose against him, but they aren't saying it as open as MaNa did last year.
On September 09 2019 08:02 evanreyes94 wrote: All this Serral kid did was Nydus rush. The only game that was good was game 1. Holy shit... Serral really can't play late game and everyone knows it. Reynor is a better player than Serral by far.
Is this guy some kind of new LR entertainer?
This kid is a Serral hater troll that appeared 2-3 days ago
Kid is trying way too hard baiting, just ignore the clown
On September 09 2019 08:02 evanreyes94 wrote: All this Serral kid did was Nydus rush. The only game that was good was game 1. Holy shit... Serral really can't play late game and everyone knows it. Reynor is a better player than Serral by far.
Is this guy some kind of new LR entertainer?
yeah, could be a PBU
All of Serral's games against Reynor that he won were rushes or timings. The one time he played a macro game was the first one. After that, it was all Nydus rushes. You know where else I see nothing but Nydus Worms? Bronze League Hero.
Just enjoy the privilege that is watching Serral dominate sc2. What a champion, unbelievable...
On September 09 2019 08:02 evanreyes94 wrote: All this Serral kid did was Nydus rush. The only game that was good was game 1. Holy shit... Serral really can't play late game and everyone knows it. Reynor is a better player than Serral by far.
Is this guy some kind of new LR entertainer?
This kid is a Serral hater troll that appeared 2-3 days ago
Kid is trying way too hard baiting, just ignore the clown
On September 09 2019 08:02 evanreyes94 wrote: All this Serral kid did was Nydus rush. The only game that was good was game 1. Holy shit... Serral really can't play late game and everyone knows it. Reynor is a better player than Serral by far.
Is this guy some kind of new LR entertainer?
This kid is a Serral hater troll that appeared 2-3 days ago
Kid is trying way too hard baiting, just ignore the clown
Europe is so weird. You have a player who is a league above another player, who is a league or two above everyone else. On the Korean side, things are much more equalized.
On September 09 2019 08:13 tigon_ridge wrote: Europe is so weird. You have a player who is a league above another player, who is a league or two above everyone else. On the Korean side, things are much more equalized.
Would it be wrong to say that Serral is a Korean level player facing non-korean level players??
On September 09 2019 08:13 tigon_ridge wrote: Europe is so weird. You have a player who is a league above another player, who is a league or two above everyone else. On the Korean side, things are much more equalized.
Well, WCS NA is much worse in that regard. Since Special isn't playing there, Neeb is way above the rest. Scarlett used to be close to him, but not anymore. And Scarlett is also decently ahead of the rest. And it's been like that for quite a while.
On September 09 2019 08:13 tigon_ridge wrote: Europe is so weird. You have a player who is a league above another player, who is a league or two above everyone else. On the Korean side, things are much more equalized.
not really, maru is better there than anyone else.
On September 09 2019 08:13 tigon_ridge wrote: Europe is so weird. You have a player who is a league above another player, who is a league or two above everyone else. On the Korean side, things are much more equalized.
Well, WCS NA is much worse in that regard. Since Special isn't playing there, Neeb is way above the rest. Scarlett used to be close to him, but not anymore. And Scarlett is also decently ahead of the rest. And it's been like that for quite a while.
If you think NA is bad in this regard, take a look at China.
On September 09 2019 08:13 tigon_ridge wrote: Europe is so weird. You have a player who is a league above another player, who is a league or two above everyone else. On the Korean side, things are much more equalized.
not really, maru is better there than anyone else.
On September 09 2019 08:13 tigon_ridge wrote: Europe is so weird. You have a player who is a league above another player, who is a league or two above everyone else. On the Korean side, things are much more equalized.
Would it be wrong to say that Serral is a Korean level player facing non-korean level players??
Serral is a Serral level player facing...everybody else. I think Maru is the only other player who is close.
Reynor's place on the aligulac ranking is perfectly justified based on the results. The gap between Serral and Reynor has been consistently 6-9 players long, which is pretty significant. Between Reynor and the rest of Europe, it's almost another 10 players. It's like Europe has a big boss and a mini boss that everyone else has to contend with. The ladder MMRs show the same story. Reynor has been the only player to average at 7k who kept that rating almost forever without using barcode anonymity.
On September 09 2019 08:30 stilt wrote: Wonder what excuses will be found to put serral second in the next TL ranking x)
Fall victory falls to wrong ranking period, and GSL vs The World isn't "real" GSL tournament so it doesn't count.
Generally it doesn't matter how high win rates may rise against Koreans as Serral cannot maintain enough high consistency against them (partly due too many Koreans are getting relegated from tournaments by "weak foreigners"), and more importantly because of that not accumulating big enough sample.
Yeah.
Can't anymore even recall when Serral was 2nd in Aliculac ratings.
On September 09 2019 08:30 stilt wrote: Wonder what excuses will be found to put serral second in the next TL ranking x)
Fall victory falls to wrong ranking period, and GSL vs The World isn't "real" GSL tournament so it doesn't count.
Generally it doesn't matter how high win rates may rise against Koreans as Serral cannot maintain enough high consistency against them (partly due too many Koreans are getting relegated from tournaments by "weak foreigners"), and more importantly because of that not accumulating big enough sample.
Yeah.
Can't anymore even recall when Serral was 2nd in Aliculac ratings.
There will be always excuses here in tl.net.
Tl.net users will be able to find excuses, but I have faith in our writers.
On September 09 2019 08:45 TentativePanda wrote: Serral -> Reynor/Neeb/Special -> Elazer/TIME/HeRoMaRinE/showtime is a pretty clear hierarchy right now in WCS
As for Serral, congrats and any loss he takes in the global finals will be an upset. Best player on Earth right now, and he’s getting better
Don’t think losing to stats or the season 3 code s champion would be an upset
On September 09 2019 08:45 TentativePanda wrote: Serral -> Reynor/Neeb/Special -> Elazer/TIME/HeRoMaRinE/showtime is a pretty clear hierarchy right now in WCS
As for Serral, congrats and any loss he takes in the global finals will be an upset. Best player on Earth right now, and he’s getting better
Don’t think losing to stats or the season 3 code s champion would be an upset
Agree to disagree
I'd say losing to top-top koreans certainly wouldn't be a big upset, but it would be one nonetheless. Aligulac gives Serral a 76.45% chance to win against stats currently. That's not particularly close mate. And we don't even know who the Code S champion is yet lol
On September 09 2019 08:45 TentativePanda wrote: Serral -> Reynor/Neeb/Special -> Elazer/TIME/HeRoMaRinE/showtime is a pretty clear hierarchy right now in WCS
As for Serral, congrats and any loss he takes in the global finals will be an upset. Best player on Earth right now, and he’s getting better
Don’t think losing to stats or the season 3 code s champion would be an upset
Agree to disagree
I'd say losing to top-top koreans certainly wouldn't be a big upset, but it would be one nonetheless. Aligulac gives Serral a 76.45% chance to win against stats currently. That's not particularly close mate. And we don't even know who the Code S champion is yet lol
It’s pretty known that aligulac is less accurate when you compare players from different insular regions though. It’s basically 2 separate pools for the players to earn rating points.
On September 09 2019 08:13 tigon_ridge wrote: Europe is so weird. You have a player who is a league above another player, who is a league or two above everyone else. On the Korean side, things are much more equalized.
not really, maru is better there than anyone else.
Not by much, if at all. He regularly loses series to other players. Even looking only at Code S: Just this season he lost to Solar and TY in group stages. Last season he went out in the Ro32 to Patience and Innovation. If you include weekenders, his record is not great. He lost in the first round of ST1 to Stats, which he had time to prepare for. He was swept by Stats in the first round of GSL vs the World, which again he had time to prepare for. At Katowice he failed to make it out of the Group Stage losing to Leenock, Trap, and Neeb.
All in all, this suggests he is not that far from the pack.
On September 09 2019 08:45 TentativePanda wrote: Serral -> Reynor/Neeb/Special -> Elazer/TIME/HeRoMaRinE/showtime is a pretty clear hierarchy right now in WCS
As for Serral, congrats and any loss he takes in the global finals will be an upset. Best player on Earth right now, and he’s getting better
Don’t think losing to stats or the season 3 code s champion would be an upset
Agree to disagree
I'd say losing to top-top koreans certainly wouldn't be a big upset, but it would be one nonetheless. Aligulac gives Serral a 76.45% chance to win against stats currently. That's not particularly close mate. And we don't even know who the Code S champion is yet lol
Erhm, Asus ROG actually happened, and is knocking at the door. Don't overfit to the results of one GSL group when Stats is the only Protoss who's historically given Serral a run for his money.
Furthermore, Maru called and would like his 54%-46% Serral Aligulac-inferred Bo5 prediction back.
Not to take anything away from Serral who is becoming more and more of a literal statistical outlier, Tasteless. Top8 Kor Aligulac are within 110 points of each other, Serral minus Maru is now 180 points. We might soon have to call him Mister Two Sigma.
On September 09 2019 08:45 TentativePanda wrote: Serral -> Reynor/Neeb/Special -> Elazer/TIME/HeRoMaRinE/showtime is a pretty clear hierarchy right now in WCS
As for Serral, congrats and any loss he takes in the global finals will be an upset. Best player on Earth right now, and he’s getting better
Don’t think losing to stats or the season 3 code s champion would be an upset
Agree to disagree
I'd say losing to top-top koreans certainly wouldn't be a big upset, but it would be one nonetheless. Aligulac gives Serral a 76.45% chance to win against stats currently. That's not particularly close mate. And we don't even know who the Code S champion is yet lol
It’s pretty known that aligulac is less accurate when you compare players from different insular regions though. It’s basically 2 separate pools for the players to earn rating points.
Yeah, you're absolutely right. Did I say "Aligulac said so, so its fact"? No. Mainly my opinion is based on Serral's recent dominating performance at GSL vs The World and Montreal (more so they way he won than him winning). Also the fact that at GSL vs The World Korean players were straight up admitting Serral's the best. That's how good he is.
On September 09 2019 08:45 TentativePanda wrote: Serral -> Reynor/Neeb/Special -> Elazer/TIME/HeRoMaRinE/showtime is a pretty clear hierarchy right now in WCS
As for Serral, congrats and any loss he takes in the global finals will be an upset. Best player on Earth right now, and he’s getting better
Don’t think losing to stats or the season 3 code s champion would be an upset
Agree to disagree
I'd say losing to top-top koreans certainly wouldn't be a big upset, but it would be one nonetheless. Aligulac gives Serral a 76.45% chance to win against stats currently. That's not particularly close mate. And we don't even know who the Code S champion is yet lol
Erhm, Asus ROG actually happened, and is knocking at the door. Don't overfit to the results of one GSL group when Stats is the only Protoss who's historically given Serral a run for his money.
Furthermore, Maru called and would like his 54%-46% Serral Aligulac-inferred Bo5 prediction back.
Not to take anything away from Serral who is becoming more and more of a literal statistical outlier, Tasteless. Top8 Kor Aligulac are within 110 points of each other, Serral minus Maru is now 180 points. We might soon have to call him Mister Two Sigma.
People seem to be ignoring the fact that I agree Maru and Stats are insanely good, and it would be a minor upset for them to beat Serral. But still, it would be. You're right, Serral didn't win one fucking tournament. So effectively all you've said is that he can lose. Yes, he can, but it would be more surprising for him to lose. Maybe one day we get to see the Serral vs Maru match - if Maru can make it past the multiple players who have stomped him in those tournaments in the past that is.
Considering overall volative nature of SC2 and winning and losing in it, Serral some weird way seems transcending what can be considered "normal". He has incredible control over stress in a tournament environment, clutch ability in recovering from a bad map, and apparently some kind of IDDQD-aura all over him from perspective of his peers (regardless what they may say).
Winners are remembered, but even Serral's most memorable and impactful losses cannot be called throw-ups or upsets per se (RO8 is still his worst since time immoriam) coming against other absolute top level players.
Next Aligulac update will list 3 out of 4 new rating records, including all time high of ALL races: on top elite level its incredibly hard to keep up steady improvements without consistently overrunning other top level opponents with big margins.
Bracket luck and general 'coin tossing' in the game has already very little to do with that, considering the time period of dominance, level of opponents, and win rates.
On September 09 2019 08:45 TentativePanda wrote: Serral -> Reynor/Neeb/Special -> Elazer/TIME/HeRoMaRinE/showtime is a pretty clear hierarchy right now in WCS
As for Serral, congrats and any loss he takes in the global finals will be an upset. Best player on Earth right now, and he’s getting better
Don’t think losing to stats or the season 3 code s champion would be an upset
Agree to disagree
I'd say losing to top-top koreans certainly wouldn't be a big upset, but it would be one nonetheless. Aligulac gives Serral a 76.45% chance to win against stats currently. That's not particularly close mate. And we don't even know who the Code S champion is yet lol
Erhm, Asus ROG actually happened, and is knocking at the door. Don't overfit to the results of one GSL group when Stats is the only Protoss who's historically given Serral a run for his money.
Furthermore, Maru called and would like his 54%-46% Serral Aligulac-inferred Bo5 prediction back.
Not to take anything away from Serral who is becoming more and more of a literal statistical outlier, Tasteless. Top8 Kor Aligulac are within 110 points of each other, Serral minus Maru is now 180 points. We might soon have to call him Mister Two Sigma.
People seem to be ignoring the fact that I agree Maru and Stats are insanely good, and it would be a minor upset for them to beat Serral. But still, it would be. You're right, Serral didn't win one fucking tournament. So effectively all you've said is that he can lose. Yes, he can, but it would be more surprising for him to lose. Maybe one day we get to see the Serral vs Maru match - if Maru can make it past the multiple players who have stomped him in those tournaments in the past that is.
And similar to what ShellShock said, Aligulac doesn't penalize players for playing a very low number of games like Maru has. The reason his score doesnt go down is because he plays in very few tournaments, and in a couple recent ones he bombed out early. Do you really think he should be rated as the best Korean player right now?
On September 09 2019 08:45 TentativePanda wrote: Serral -> Reynor/Neeb/Special -> Elazer/TIME/HeRoMaRinE/showtime is a pretty clear hierarchy right now in WCS
As for Serral, congrats and any loss he takes in the global finals will be an upset. Best player on Earth right now, and he’s getting better
Don’t think losing to stats or the season 3 code s champion would be an upset
Agree to disagree
I'd say losing to top-top koreans certainly wouldn't be a big upset, but it would be one nonetheless. Aligulac gives Serral a 76.45% chance to win against stats currently. That's not particularly close mate. And we don't even know who the Code S champion is yet lol
Aligulac isn’t some be all end all gospel statistic site
Serral has already lost premier tournaments to soo innovation and stats this year.
Even reynor beats him in bo7 finals.
Whoever makes it out of this code s is no underdog to serral imo.
Except for trap since Protoss has been completely defanged
On September 09 2019 08:45 TentativePanda wrote: Serral -> Reynor/Neeb/Special -> Elazer/TIME/HeRoMaRinE/showtime is a pretty clear hierarchy right now in WCS
As for Serral, congrats and any loss he takes in the global finals will be an upset. Best player on Earth right now, and he’s getting better
Don’t think losing to stats or the season 3 code s champion would be an upset
Agree to disagree
I'd say losing to top-top koreans certainly wouldn't be a big upset, but it would be one nonetheless. Aligulac gives Serral a 76.45% chance to win against stats currently. That's not particularly close mate. And we don't even know who the Code S champion is yet lol
Erhm, Asus ROG actually happened, and is knocking at the door. Don't overfit to the results of one GSL group when Stats is the only Protoss who's historically given Serral a run for his money.
Furthermore, Maru called and would like his 54%-46% Serral Aligulac-inferred Bo5 prediction back.
Not to take anything away from Serral who is becoming more and more of a literal statistical outlier, Tasteless. Top8 Kor Aligulac are within 110 points of each other, Serral minus Maru is now 180 points. We might soon have to call him Mister Two Sigma.
People seem to be ignoring the fact that I agree Maru and Stats are insanely good, and it would be a minor upset for them to beat Serral. But still, it would be. You're right, Serral didn't win one fucking tournament. So effectively all you've said is that he can lose. Yes, he can, but it would be more surprising for him to lose. Maybe one day we get to see the Serral vs Maru match - if Maru can make it past the multiple players who have stomped him in those tournaments in the past that is.
I think we're closer to agreement than you think, but I'll correct one fact : historically since 2018 Serral and Stats are tied 2-2 in series and 10-10 in maps, which is literally 50-50. A repeat Blizzcon finals between these two would most likely go 3-3 into coin flip, IMHO.
On September 09 2019 08:45 TentativePanda wrote: Serral -> Reynor/Neeb/Special -> Elazer/TIME/HeRoMaRinE/showtime is a pretty clear hierarchy right now in WCS
As for Serral, congrats and any loss he takes in the global finals will be an upset. Best player on Earth right now, and he’s getting better
Don’t think losing to stats or the season 3 code s champion would be an upset
Agree to disagree
I'd say losing to top-top koreans certainly wouldn't be a big upset, but it would be one nonetheless. Aligulac gives Serral a 76.45% chance to win against stats currently. That's not particularly close mate. And we don't even know who the Code S champion is yet lol
Erhm, Asus ROG actually happened, and is knocking at the door. Don't overfit to the results of one GSL group when Stats is the only Protoss who's historically given Serral a run for his money.
Furthermore, Maru called and would like his 54%-46% Serral Aligulac-inferred Bo5 prediction back.
Not to take anything away from Serral who is becoming more and more of a literal statistical outlier, Tasteless. Top8 Kor Aligulac are within 110 points of each other, Serral minus Maru is now 180 points. We might soon have to call him Mister Two Sigma.
People seem to be ignoring the fact that I agree Maru and Stats are insanely good, and it would be a minor upset for them to beat Serral. But still, it would be. You're right, Serral didn't win one fucking tournament. So effectively all you've said is that he can lose. Yes, he can, but it would be more surprising for him to lose. Maybe one day we get to see the Serral vs Maru match - if Maru can make it past the multiple players who have stomped him in those tournaments in the past that is.
If Maru and serral played a best of seven today my money is on Maru
You’re free to believe that Maru is a slight underdog vs serral but it’s not objective fact especially after serral shows the most weakness in zvt, Terran got a massive ghost buff, and investors were nerfed.
I wouldn’t call stats an underdog either before the prism nerf and OL buff
On September 09 2019 08:45 TentativePanda wrote: Serral -> Reynor/Neeb/Special -> Elazer/TIME/HeRoMaRinE/showtime is a pretty clear hierarchy right now in WCS
As for Serral, congrats and any loss he takes in the global finals will be an upset. Best player on Earth right now, and he’s getting better
Don’t think losing to stats or the season 3 code s champion would be an upset
Agree to disagree
I'd say losing to top-top koreans certainly wouldn't be a big upset, but it would be one nonetheless. Aligulac gives Serral a 76.45% chance to win against stats currently. That's not particularly close mate. And we don't even know who the Code S champion is yet lol
Erhm, Asus ROG actually happened, and is knocking at the door. Don't overfit to the results of one GSL group when Stats is the only Protoss who's historically given Serral a run for his money.
Furthermore, Maru called and would like his 54%-46% Serral Aligulac-inferred Bo5 prediction back.
Not to take anything away from Serral who is becoming more and more of a literal statistical outlier, Tasteless. Top8 Kor Aligulac are within 110 points of each other, Serral minus Maru is now 180 points. We might soon have to call him Mister Two Sigma.
People seem to be ignoring the fact that I agree Maru and Stats are insanely good, and it would be a minor upset for them to beat Serral. But still, it would be. You're right, Serral didn't win one fucking tournament. So effectively all you've said is that he can lose. Yes, he can, but it would be more surprising for him to lose. Maybe one day we get to see the Serral vs Maru match - if Maru can make it past the multiple players who have stomped him in those tournaments in the past that is.
If Maru and serral played a best of seven today my money is on Maru
You’re free to believe that Maru is a slight underdog vs serral but it’s not objective fact especially after serral shows the most weakness in zvt, Terran got a massive ghost buff, and investors were nerfed.
I wouldn’t call stats an underdog either before the prism nerf and OL buff
Stats won their last two series
Read my goddamn posts yo lmao
You: "Aligulac isn’t some be all end all gospel statistic site" Me in a previous post: "Yeah, you're absolutely right. Did I say "Aligulac said so, so its fact"? No."
You: "...but it’s not objective fact" Me: "Mainly my opinion is based...."
On September 09 2019 08:45 TentativePanda wrote: Serral -> Reynor/Neeb/Special -> Elazer/TIME/HeRoMaRinE/showtime is a pretty clear hierarchy right now in WCS
As for Serral, congrats and any loss he takes in the global finals will be an upset. Best player on Earth right now, and he’s getting better
Don’t think losing to stats or the season 3 code s champion would be an upset
Agree to disagree
I'd say losing to top-top koreans certainly wouldn't be a big upset, but it would be one nonetheless. Aligulac gives Serral a 76.45% chance to win against stats currently. That's not particularly close mate. And we don't even know who the Code S champion is yet lol
Erhm, Asus ROG actually happened, and is knocking at the door. Don't overfit to the results of one GSL group when Stats is the only Protoss who's historically given Serral a run for his money.
Furthermore, Maru called and would like his 54%-46% Serral Aligulac-inferred Bo5 prediction back.
Not to take anything away from Serral who is becoming more and more of a literal statistical outlier, Tasteless. Top8 Kor Aligulac are within 110 points of each other, Serral minus Maru is now 180 points. We might soon have to call him Mister Two Sigma.
People seem to be ignoring the fact that I agree Maru and Stats are insanely good, and it would be a minor upset for them to beat Serral. But still, it would be. You're right, Serral didn't win one fucking tournament. So effectively all you've said is that he can lose. Yes, he can, but it would be more surprising for him to lose. Maybe one day we get to see the Serral vs Maru match - if Maru can make it past the multiple players who have stomped him in those tournaments in the past that is.
If Maru and serral played a best of seven today my money is on Maru
You’re free to believe that Maru is a slight underdog vs serral but it’s not objective fact especially after serral shows the most weakness in zvt, Terran got a massive ghost buff, and investors were nerfed.
I wouldn’t call stats an underdog either before the prism nerf and OL buff
Stats won their last two series
Read my goddamn posts yo lmao
You: "Aligulac isn’t some be all end all gospel statistic site" Me in a previous post: "Yeah, you're absolutely right. Did I say "Aligulac said so, so its fact"? No."
You: "...but it’s not objective fact" Me: "Mainly my opinion is based...."
Do you just not comprehend what I write or?
I comprehend what you wrote
you wrote this
"it would be a minor upset for them to beat Serral. But still, it would be"
"Yes, he can, but it would be more surprising for him to lose."
as if the only difference in opinion is the degree of upset, not whether it's even an upset in the first place
On September 09 2019 08:45 TentativePanda wrote: Serral -> Reynor/Neeb/Special -> Elazer/TIME/HeRoMaRinE/showtime is a pretty clear hierarchy right now in WCS
As for Serral, congrats and any loss he takes in the global finals will be an upset. Best player on Earth right now, and he’s getting better
Don’t think losing to stats or the season 3 code s champion would be an upset
Agree to disagree
I'd say losing to top-top koreans certainly wouldn't be a big upset, but it would be one nonetheless. Aligulac gives Serral a 76.45% chance to win against stats currently. That's not particularly close mate. And we don't even know who the Code S champion is yet lol
Erhm, Asus ROG actually happened, and is knocking at the door. Don't overfit to the results of one GSL group when Stats is the only Protoss who's historically given Serral a run for his money.
Furthermore, Maru called and would like his 54%-46% Serral Aligulac-inferred Bo5 prediction back.
Not to take anything away from Serral who is becoming more and more of a literal statistical outlier, Tasteless. Top8 Kor Aligulac are within 110 points of each other, Serral minus Maru is now 180 points. We might soon have to call him Mister Two Sigma.
Maru's vZ MU is worlds above his other MUs. It's more interesting to examine players' strengths as a whole, not just based on who would win head-to-head. If you disregard Maru's vZ rating, his rating would be nearly identical to TY's. On the other hand, Serral's best MU is only 70 pts higher than his worst MU. That delta is the smallest delta of all the top10 players ranked in aligulac. Meaning: he's easily the most well-rounded player in the world. Combining this fact with that he's currently standing >180 pts above Maru speaks more about him as a player overall than whether or not he'd beat Maru in a Bo7.
On September 09 2019 09:46 terribleplayer1 wrote: Serral just hit 3170 on Aligulac, the highest rating by far ever achieved, an insane string of wins, so few losses throughout the last 2 years.
He seems to be in stronger form at this time this year than last year.
Trully nothing like this in SC2 has ever existed, big favourite for blizzcon, maybe 30-40~% chance of taking it all imo.
In this tournament Serral displayed a Blizzcon-like form, he seems to be playing way better than six months ago.
On September 09 2019 08:45 TentativePanda wrote: Serral -> Reynor/Neeb/Special -> Elazer/TIME/HeRoMaRinE/showtime is a pretty clear hierarchy right now in WCS
As for Serral, congrats and any loss he takes in the global finals will be an upset. Best player on Earth right now, and he’s getting better
Don’t think losing to stats or the season 3 code s champion would be an upset
Agree to disagree
I'd say losing to top-top koreans certainly wouldn't be a big upset, but it would be one nonetheless. Aligulac gives Serral a 76.45% chance to win against stats currently. That's not particularly close mate. And we don't even know who the Code S champion is yet lol
Erhm, Asus ROG actually happened, and is knocking at the door. Don't overfit to the results of one GSL group when Stats is the only Protoss who's historically given Serral a run for his money.
Furthermore, Maru called and would like his 54%-46% Serral Aligulac-inferred Bo5 prediction back.
Not to take anything away from Serral who is becoming more and more of a literal statistical outlier, Tasteless. Top8 Kor Aligulac are within 110 points of each other, Serral minus Maru is now 180 points. We might soon have to call him Mister Two Sigma.
Maru's vZ MU is worlds above his other MUs. It's more interesting to examine players' strengths as a whole, not just based on who would win head-to-head. If you disregard Maru's vZ rating, his rating would be nearly identical to TY's. On the other hand, Serral's best MU is only 70 pts higher than his worst MU. That delta is the smallest delta of all the top10 players ranked in aligulac. Meaning: he's easily the most well-rounded player in the world. Combining this fact with that he's currently standing >180 pts above Maru speaks more about him as a player overall than whether or not he'd beat Maru in a Bo7.
I think this is good point overall and I'd tend to agree. Most people focus on raw wins, rather than volatility- or consistency- adjusted level which, as some previous poster remarked, would make Serral's last two years form completely unbelievable. Maru's drawdowns this year and overall weekenders and TvP vulnerability certainly exist, and tarnish his record. But should a Serral-Maru Bo7 happen, and should Serral lose for instance 3-4, good luck with arguing that Serral is still the better player on the forums . Especially when most of the argument that Serral should win a GSL to cement his status boils down to 'he hasn't won a long series against Maru yet' (his 2yr record against Koreans is >80% in matches, which means about 50% chance of him making GSL finals, and that includes early 2018 when he wasn't as dominant as for the last 18 months).
I agree Serral is the favourite to win Blizzcon again. I think his ZvT improved enought hat he's probably evenly matched against Maru at this point. Only person I'd put him at slight disadvantage against is Stats. Everyone else besides Maru I would say he is favoured against.
On September 09 2019 08:45 TentativePanda wrote: Serral -> Reynor/Neeb/Special -> Elazer/TIME/HeRoMaRinE/showtime is a pretty clear hierarchy right now in WCS
As for Serral, congrats and any loss he takes in the global finals will be an upset. Best player on Earth right now, and he’s getting better
Don’t think losing to stats or the season 3 code s champion would be an upset
Agree to disagree
I'd say losing to top-top koreans certainly wouldn't be a big upset, but it would be one nonetheless. Aligulac gives Serral a 76.45% chance to win against stats currently. That's not particularly close mate. And we don't even know who the Code S champion is yet lol
Erhm, Asus ROG actually happened, and is knocking at the door. Don't overfit to the results of one GSL group when Stats is the only Protoss who's historically given Serral a run for his money.
Furthermore, Maru called and would like his 54%-46% Serral Aligulac-inferred Bo5 prediction back.
Not to take anything away from Serral who is becoming more and more of a literal statistical outlier, Tasteless. Top8 Kor Aligulac are within 110 points of each other, Serral minus Maru is now 180 points. We might soon have to call him Mister Two Sigma.
People seem to be ignoring the fact that I agree Maru and Stats are insanely good, and it would be a minor upset for them to beat Serral. But still, it would be. You're right, Serral didn't win one fucking tournament. So effectively all you've said is that he can lose. Yes, he can, but it would be more surprising for him to lose. Maybe one day we get to see the Serral vs Maru match - if Maru can make it past the multiple players who have stomped him in those tournaments in the past that is.
If Maru and serral played a best of seven today my money is on Maru
You’re free to believe that Maru is a slight underdog vs serral but it’s not objective fact especially after serral shows the most weakness in zvt, Terran got a massive ghost buff, and investors were nerfed.
I wouldn’t call stats an underdog either before the prism nerf and OL buff
Stats won their last two series
Read my goddamn posts yo lmao
You: "Aligulac isn’t some be all end all gospel statistic site" Me in a previous post: "Yeah, you're absolutely right. Did I say "Aligulac said so, so its fact"? No."
You: "...but it’s not objective fact" Me: "Mainly my opinion is based...."
Do you just not comprehend what I write or?
I comprehend what you wrote
you wrote this
"it would be a minor upset for them to beat Serral. But still, it would be"
"Yes, he can, but it would be more surprising for him to lose."
as if the only difference in opinion is the degree of upset, not whether it's even an upset in the first place
You're right in saying I stated it objectively, but I obviously don't have the TRUTH because that's impossible to have on subjects like these, therefore it was my admittedly subjective view on the truth, aka an opinion
On September 09 2019 08:13 tigon_ridge wrote: Europe is so weird. You have a player who is a league above another player, who is a league or two above everyone else. On the Korean side, things are much more equalized.
Would it be wrong to say that Serral is a Korean level player facing non-korean level players??
Yes, it would be wrong. Because the next-5 (after Serral) foreign players are basically *at* the Korean level - the next-5 Korean players are only marginally ahead of the "next-5" foreign players, IMO - we've seen them play recently and they were all very, very close.
Serral is at a whole other level. He's been the best player by a bigger margin and for a longer period than anybody else in the history of Starcraft 2. He's certainly dominating harder than most Broodwar Bonjwas did - and in a game that's harder to dominate.
If he'd go win a GSL there would be zero more arguments about him being a Bonjwa, but for me he is already there - he's so far over that line it's insane people still dispute his Bonjwa status, tbh.
Why do we have to bring up GSL every time? Serral can win GSL, easily. He is 100% the best zerg in the world and very likely also the best player. Why would anyone doubt the chances of the best Zerg and/or the best player winning a GSL?
I know people bring up the preparation times in GSL that "but in GSL opponents prepare for you." Well, TY had a long time to prepare for Serral in GSL vs The World and he got stomped anyways. People had time to prepare for him in Blizzcon. If Serral had such a disadvantage in preparation matches, it would have showed it already, just like how Maru has shown his weakness in weekend tournaments. In any tournaments where they announce the bracket in advance, and your first match is against Serral, then you know you have to prepare for him, or else you shouldn't prepare at all.
On September 09 2019 13:49 Xitah wrote: Why do we have to bring up GSL every time? Serral can win GSL, easily. He is 100% the best zerg in the world and very likely also the best player. Why would anyone doubt the chances of the best Zerg and/or the best player winning a GSL?
I know people bring up the preparation times in GSL that "but in GSL opponents prepare for you." Well, TY had a long time to prepare for Serral in GSL vs The World and he got stomped anyways. People had time to prepare for him in Blizzcon. If Serral had such a disadvantage in preparation matches, it would have showed it already, just like how Maru has shown his weakness in weekend tournaments. In any tournaments where they announce the bracket in advance, and your first match is against Serral, then you know you have to prepare for him, or else you shouldn't prepare at all.
Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know.
On September 09 2019 13:49 Xitah wrote: Why do we have to bring up GSL every time? Serral can win GSL, easily. He is 100% the best zerg in the world and very likely also the best player. Why would anyone doubt the chances of the best Zerg and/or the best player winning a GSL?
I know people bring up the preparation times in GSL that "but in GSL opponents prepare for you." Well, TY had a long time to prepare for Serral in GSL vs The World and he got stomped anyways. People had time to prepare for him in Blizzcon. If Serral had such a disadvantage in preparation matches, it would have showed it already, just like how Maru has shown his weakness in weekend tournaments. In any tournaments where they announce the bracket in advance, and your first match is against Serral, then you know you have to prepare for him, or else you shouldn't prepare at all.
If WCS is so hard to win, why does Serral dominate WCS so hard but only wins a 3rd of non-region-locked tournaments (3 out of 9!! Hurrayy bonjwaaa!!!!)?
On September 09 2019 14:48 Charoisaur wrote: Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know.
It's not true that "Rogue dominated weekeners harder". Serral: Serral Rogue: Rogue
You are adding sufficiently many quantifiers (1) winning (2) non-region-locked (3) non-invite-only (4) in a row to make a claim. That's definitely subjective. Ignore all the "non-region-locked" events if you want. Serral's results are more impressive than Rogue.
But then again, the point is not that Serral in BONJWA[ or whatever. The point is that Serral is capable of winning a GSL, so participating in GSL is no longer such an interesting question.
Here's a question, where do you think Serral would get eliminated in a GSL? R32 and R16 are almost like a weekener where you have to prepare for 3 people, so he's highly favored to make it to the play offs. Now, take the current playoffs and replace Dark with Serral. I would say he and Maru will be the top candidates to win. Then let him participate 3 times in GSL per year and he can win one. It's no longer a mystery.
Edit: Also, nobody claimed that "WCS is so hard to win" so that point is entirely strawman.
On September 09 2019 14:48 Charoisaur wrote: Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know.
It's not true that "Rogue dominated weekeners harder". Serral: Serral Rogue: Rogue
You are adding sufficiently many quantifiers (1) winning (2) non-region-locked (3) non-invite-only (4) in a row to make a claim. That's definitely subjective. Ignore all the "non-region-locked" events if you want. Serral's results are more impressive than Rogue.
But then again, the point is not that Serral in BONJWA[ or whatever. The point is that Serral is capable of winning a GSL, so participating in GSL is no longer such an interesting question.
Here's a question, where do you think Serral would get eliminated in a GSL? R32 and R16 are almost like a weekener where you have to prepare for 3 people, so he's highly favored to make it to the play offs. Now, take the current playoffs and replace Dark with Serral. I would say he and Maru will be the top candidates to win. Then let him participate 3 times in GSL per year and he can win one. It's no longer a mystery.
Edit: Also, nobody claimed that "WCS is so hard to win" so that point is entirely strawman.
Rogue won in a row the following: IEM Shanghai GSL ST2 Blizzcon IEM WC Katowice
Let's check Serral. GSL vs The World, Blizzcon... uhm, oh, damn, and GSL vs The world.
Cool.
Edit> Considering many Serral fanboys are saying that Code S is a different form of tournament and that's why Maru is so bad at weekenders(lulz), then we have to accept the fact this goes both ways. Since Code S is a different form of tournament and Serral has never shown anything to make us believe he could win. He's not capable. (well, I say we can't say as we don't know but since you're so sure I will change this to be so sure either )
On September 09 2019 14:48 Charoisaur wrote: Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know.
It's not true that "Rogue dominated weekeners harder". Serral: Serral Rogue: Rogue
You are adding sufficiently many quantifiers (1) winning (2) non-region-locked (3) non-invite-only (4) in a row to make a claim. That's definitely subjective. Ignore all the "non-region-locked" events if you want. Serral's results are more impressive than Rogue.
But then again, the point is not that Serral in BONJWA[ or whatever. The point is that Serral is capable of winning a GSL, so participating in GSL is no longer such an interesting question.
Here's a question, where do you think Serral would get eliminated in a GSL? R32 and R16 are almost like a weekener where you have to prepare for 3 people, so he's highly favored to make it to the play offs. Now, take the current playoffs and replace Dark with Serral. I would say he and Maru will be the top candidates to win. Then let him participate 3 times in GSL per year and he can win one. It's no longer a mystery.
Edit: Also, nobody claimed that "WCS is so hard to win" so that point is entirely strawman.
Rogue won in a row the following: IEM Shanghai GSL ST2 Blizzcon IEM WC Katowice
Let's check Serral. GSL vs The World, Blizzcon... uhm, oh, damn, and GSL vs The world.
Cool.
Edit> Considering many Serral fanboys are saying that Code S is a different form of tournament and that's why Maru is so bad at weekenders(lulz), then we have to accept the fact this goes both ways. Since Code S is a different form of tournament and Serral has never shown anything to make us believe he could win. He's not capable. (well, I say we can't say as we don't know but since you're so sure I will change this to be so sure either )
In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable.
On September 09 2019 14:48 Charoisaur wrote: Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know.
It's not true that "Rogue dominated weekeners harder". Serral: Serral Rogue: Rogue
You are adding sufficiently many quantifiers (1) winning (2) non-region-locked (3) non-invite-only (4) in a row to make a claim. That's definitely subjective. Ignore all the "non-region-locked" events if you want. Serral's results are more impressive than Rogue.
But then again, the point is not that Serral in BONJWA[ or whatever. The point is that Serral is capable of winning a GSL, so participating in GSL is no longer such an interesting question.
Here's a question, where do you think Serral would get eliminated in a GSL? R32 and R16 are almost like a weekener where you have to prepare for 3 people, so he's highly favored to make it to the play offs. Now, take the current playoffs and replace Dark with Serral. I would say he and Maru will be the top candidates to win. Then let him participate 3 times in GSL per year and he can win one. It's no longer a mystery.
Edit: Also, nobody claimed that "WCS is so hard to win" so that point is entirely strawman.
Rogue won in a row the following: IEM Shanghai GSL ST2 Blizzcon IEM WC Katowice
Let's check Serral. GSL vs The World, Blizzcon... uhm, oh, damn, and GSL vs The world.
Cool.
Edit> Considering many Serral fanboys are saying that Code S is a different form of tournament and that's why Maru is so bad at weekenders(lulz), then we have to accept the fact this goes both ways. Since Code S is a different form of tournament and Serral has never shown anything to make us believe he could win. He's not capable. (well, I say we can't say as we don't know but since you're so sure I will change this to be so sure either )
In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable.
There's no point arguing with people who deliberately brush aside HSC wins and statistics. Just let them enjoy whatever fantasies they're clinging onto.
On September 09 2019 14:48 Charoisaur wrote: Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know.
It's not true that "Rogue dominated weekeners harder". Serral: Serral Rogue: Rogue
You are adding sufficiently many quantifiers (1) winning (2) non-region-locked (3) non-invite-only (4) in a row to make a claim. That's definitely subjective. Ignore all the "non-region-locked" events if you want. Serral's results are more impressive than Rogue.
But then again, the point is not that Serral in BONJWA[ or whatever. The point is that Serral is capable of winning a GSL, so participating in GSL is no longer such an interesting question.
Here's a question, where do you think Serral would get eliminated in a GSL? R32 and R16 are almost like a weekener where you have to prepare for 3 people, so he's highly favored to make it to the play offs. Now, take the current playoffs and replace Dark with Serral. I would say he and Maru will be the top candidates to win. Then let him participate 3 times in GSL per year and he can win one. It's no longer a mystery.
Edit: Also, nobody claimed that "WCS is so hard to win" so that point is entirely strawman.
Rogue won in a row the following: IEM Shanghai GSL ST2 Blizzcon IEM WC Katowice
Let's check Serral. GSL vs The World, Blizzcon... uhm, oh, damn, and GSL vs The world.
Cool.
Edit> Considering many Serral fanboys are saying that Code S is a different form of tournament and that's why Maru is so bad at weekenders(lulz), then we have to accept the fact this goes both ways. Since Code S is a different form of tournament and Serral has never shown anything to make us believe he could win. He's not capable. (well, I say we can't say as we don't know but since you're so sure I will change this to be so sure either )
In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable.
In the longterm? Sure, no question about that. But Rogue's peak is higher and up to this day better than Serral's whole career. 2 WC titles and 2 another big tournaments. In a row. It's one of the raesons of the stupid patch zerg article.
In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable.
In the longterm? Sure, no question about that. But Rogue's peak is higher and up to this day better than Serral's whole career. 2 WC titles and 2 another big tournaments. In a row. It's one of the raesons of the stupid patch zerg article.
Again, why arent HSC counted in ? Several Koreans participated and beaten there by Serral.
And secondly, how in earth is it "better than Serral´s whole career" ? Thats just delusional. And you just have to see how he has done in other competitions too. He has been in top-4 in almost every tournament and most of them in finals or then lost only to the winner. Rogue had a short and good period of ruling, but its imo not comparable to Serral in any way.
What goes to this forever discussion about GSL. Lets take this seasons top-8 for review compared their shot against Serral:
GSL season 3 top-8:
Dark, TY, Rogue, Zest, KeeN, Trap, Maru, Ragnarok
Dark: Last time lost to Elazer, who is few classes below Serral. In current form, cant see Serral losing this.
TY: They have fought few times recently and Serral outclassed TY both times.
Rogue: Bit better version of Dark in ZvZ, but still would consider Raynor being bigger threat than Rogue tbh.
Zest: Have fought few times(?). No match for Serral.
KeeN: Havent seen him play, so its non-conclusive. However he propably isnt Maru/TY-caliber, so propably would get stomped as others.
Trap: Again, they fought, Serral stomped.
Ragnarok: He is Korean zerg. So nope.
Maru: Well this is the only one debatable imo. But comparing the current form of them, at this moment I would give Serral around 80% chance to win. Maru is nowhere near his peak and Serral is a monster.
And in addition for example Neeb made it to top-4 in GSL. Look how Serral treats him nowadays. GSL Season 2 top-8 were: Classic, soO, Trap, Innovation, Hurricane, Parting, herO, Dark. And from those, only Innovation can challenge Serral, when he has his lategame in form. And even then I think Serral would be a favorite. Or if you disagree, who of those could realistically beat Serral ?
So, all-in-all, we can safely conclude that Serral has a high chance to win GSL if he participated. Even Koreans fear and dont want to face him anymore.
>Serral is just as good as Maru and in certain aspects of the game I'd say better. >GSL is not 2013-2014 GSL, live with it. >Korea is dying and we are not getting younger, up and coming players like eg Reynor in Eu.
Having said all that, they're playing this game to win $$$ and they're doing it in the best way they can and have 0 to prove to anyone at this moment. The whole discussion will stop at some point.
Lastly, would you bet on Maru winning this blizzcon? Or would you bet on Serral?
On September 09 2019 14:48 Charoisaur wrote: Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know.
It's not true that "Rogue dominated weekeners harder". Serral: Serral Rogue: Rogue
You are adding sufficiently many quantifiers (1) winning (2) non-region-locked (3) non-invite-only (4) in a row to make a claim. That's definitely subjective. Ignore all the "non-region-locked" events if you want. Serral's results are more impressive than Rogue.
But then again, the point is not that Serral in BONJWA[ or whatever. The point is that Serral is capable of winning a GSL, so participating in GSL is no longer such an interesting question.
Here's a question, where do you think Serral would get eliminated in a GSL? R32 and R16 are almost like a weekener where you have to prepare for 3 people, so he's highly favored to make it to the play offs. Now, take the current playoffs and replace Dark with Serral. I would say he and Maru will be the top candidates to win. Then let him participate 3 times in GSL per year and he can win one. It's no longer a mystery.
Edit: Also, nobody claimed that "WCS is so hard to win" so that point is entirely strawman.
Rogue won in a row the following: IEM Shanghai GSL ST2 Blizzcon IEM WC Katowice
Let's check Serral. GSL vs The World, Blizzcon... uhm, oh, damn, and GSL vs The world.
Cool.
Edit> Considering many Serral fanboys are saying that Code S is a different form of tournament and that's why Maru is so bad at weekenders(lulz), then we have to accept the fact this goes both ways. Since Code S is a different form of tournament and Serral has never shown anything to make us believe he could win. He's not capable. (well, I say we can't say as we don't know but since you're so sure I will change this to be so sure either )
In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable.
In the longterm? Sure, no question about that. But Rogue's peak is higher and up to this day better than Serral's whole career. 2 WC titles and 2 another big tournaments. In a row. It's one of the raesons of the stupid patch zerg article.
In my opinion a peak isn't as impressive as consistency.
On September 09 2019 13:49 Xitah wrote: Why do we have to bring up GSL every time? Serral can win GSL, easily. He is 100% the best zerg in the world and very likely also the best player. Why would anyone doubt the chances of the best Zerg and/or the best player winning a GSL?
I know people bring up the preparation times in GSL that "but in GSL opponents prepare for you." Well, TY had a long time to prepare for Serral in GSL vs The World and he got stomped anyways. People had time to prepare for him in Blizzcon. If Serral had such a disadvantage in preparation matches, it would have showed it already, just like how Maru has shown his weakness in weekend tournaments. In any tournaments where they announce the bracket in advance, and your first match is against Serral, then you know you have to prepare for him, or else you shouldn't prepare at all.
If WCS is so hard to win, why does Serral dominate WCS so hard but only wins a 3rd of non-region-locked tournaments (3 out of 9!! Hurrayy bonjwaaa!!!!)?
Without checking, he placed top 4 in all of them I guess? And who won more than him?
On September 09 2019 14:48 Charoisaur wrote: Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know.
It's not true that "Rogue dominated weekeners harder". Serral: Serral Rogue: Rogue
You are adding sufficiently many quantifiers (1) winning (2) non-region-locked (3) non-invite-only (4) in a row to make a claim. That's definitely subjective. Ignore all the "non-region-locked" events if you want. Serral's results are more impressive than Rogue.
But then again, the point is not that Serral in BONJWA[ or whatever. The point is that Serral is capable of winning a GSL, so participating in GSL is no longer such an interesting question.
Here's a question, where do you think Serral would get eliminated in a GSL? R32 and R16 are almost like a weekener where you have to prepare for 3 people, so he's highly favored to make it to the play offs. Now, take the current playoffs and replace Dark with Serral. I would say he and Maru will be the top candidates to win. Then let him participate 3 times in GSL per year and he can win one. It's no longer a mystery.
Edit: Also, nobody claimed that "WCS is so hard to win" so that point is entirely strawman.
Rogue won in a row the following: IEM Shanghai GSL ST2 Blizzcon IEM WC Katowice
Let's check Serral. GSL vs The World, Blizzcon... uhm, oh, damn, and GSL vs The world.
Cool.
Edit> Considering many Serral fanboys are saying that Code S is a different form of tournament and that's why Maru is so bad at weekenders(lulz), then we have to accept the fact this goes both ways. Since Code S is a different form of tournament and Serral has never shown anything to make us believe he could win. He's not capable. (well, I say we can't say as we don't know but since you're so sure I will change this to be so sure either )
In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable.
In the longterm? Sure, no question about that. But Rogue's peak is higher and up to this day better than Serral's whole career. 2 WC titles and 2 another big tournaments. In a row. It's one of the raesons of the stupid patch zerg article.
In my opinion a peak isn't as impressive as consistency.
Nobody was talking about that though The question was who dominated weekenders harder, Rogue or Serral So, uhm, yeah
In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable.
In the longterm? Sure, no question about that. But Rogue's peak is higher and up to this day better than Serral's whole career. 2 WC titles and 2 another big tournaments. In a row. It's one of the raesons of the stupid patch zerg article.
Again, why arent HSC counted in ? Several Koreans participated and beaten there by Serral.
And secondly, how in earth is it "better than Serral´s whole career" ? Thats just delusional. And you just have to see how he has done in other competitions too. He has been in top-4 in almost every tournament and most of them in finals or then lost only to the winner. Rogue had a short and good period of ruling, but its imo not comparable to Serral in any way.
What goes to this forever discussion about GSL. Lets take this seasons top-8 for review compared their shot against Serral:
GSL season 3 top-8:
Dark, TY, Rogue, Zest, KeeN, Trap, Maru, Ragnarok
Dark: Last time lost to Elazer, who is few classes below Serral. In current form, cant see Serral losing this.
TY: They have fought few times recently and Serral outclassed TY both times.
Rogue: Bit better version of Dark in ZvZ, but still would consider Raynor being bigger threat than Rogue tbh.
Zest: Have fought few times(?). No match for Serral.
KeeN: Havent seen him play, so its non-conclusive. However he propably isnt Maru/TY-caliber, so propably would get stomped as others.
Trap: Again, they fought, Serral stomped.
Ragnarok: He is Korean zerg. So nope.
Maru: Well this is the only one debatable imo. But comparing the current form of them, at this moment I would give Serral around 80% chance to win. Maru is nowhere near his peak and Serral is a monster.
And in addition for example Neeb made it to top-4 in GSL. Look how Serral treats him nowadays. GSL Season 2 top-8 were: Classic, soO, Trap, Innovation, Hurricane, Parting, herO, Dark. And from those, only Innovation can challenge Serral, when he has his lategame in form. And even then I think Serral would be a favorite. Or if you disagree, who of those could realistically beat Serral ?
So, all-in-all, we can safely conclude that Serral has a high chance to win GSL if he participated. Even Koreans fear and dont want to face him anymore.
Rogue has 2 consecutive World Championship titles. Serral has 1 WC title. Rogue has 4 big tournaments win in a row, Serral has 3 big tournament wins. Not in a row.
Yes, Serral is better in being consistent over the last 2 years, Rogue had much better and higher peak, even more impressive. If some insist on naming Serral banjo and other fancy titles, we have to add them to all the "faceless" Koreans we skipped before. e.g. Innovation, Maru, Mvp, Life(muhehehe ), Rogue, sOs(3 WC titles), ByuN(another insane peak)...
It's not as easy as it sounds, is it?
Also the discussion was started by some post, read it. It's in the quote. That should solve the mistery of HSC.
Edit> It would be quite funny to see Life named bonjwa just to remove this title for his crime Oh boy(by the BW standards he was the closest to this title because of 1) Starleague wins(Serral has none) 2) KeSPA era
Korean elitists being evil again(and please don't use Artosis banjo naming, somebody else arleady pointed out in the previous threads he's not exactly saving them for the top players and he's using the title multiple times a year) )
[QUOTE]On September 09 2019 18:43 deacon.frost wrote: [QUOTE]On September 09 2019 17:30 Noa Greenini wrote: [QUOTE]On September 09 2019 16:58 deacon.frost wrote: [QUOTE]On September 09 2019 16:25 Noa Greenini wrote: [QUOTE]On September 09 2019 16:09 deacon.frost wrote: [QUOTE]On September 09 2019 15:23 Xitah wrote: [QUOTE]On September 09 2019 14:48 Charoisaur wrote: Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know.[/QUOTE]
It's not true that "Rogue dominated weekeners harder". Serral: Serral Rogue: Rogue
You are adding sufficiently many quantifiers (1) winning (2) non-region-locked (3) non-invite-only (4) in a row to make a claim. That's definitely subjective. Ignore all the "non-region-locked" events if you want. Serral's results are more impressive than Rogue.
But then again, the point is not that Serral in BONJWA[ or whatever. The point is that Serral is capable of winning a GSL, so participating in GSL is no longer such an interesting question.
Here's a question, where do you think Serral would get eliminated in a GSL? R32 and R16 are almost like a weekener where you have to prepare for 3 people, so he's highly favored to make it to the play offs. Now, take the current playoffs and replace Dark with Serral. I would say he and Maru will be the top candidates to win. Then let him participate 3 times in GSL per year and he can win one. It's no longer a mystery.
Edit: Also, nobody claimed that "WCS is so hard to win" so that point is entirely strawman. [/QUOTE] Rogue won in a row the following: IEM Shanghai GSL ST2 Blizzcon IEM WC Katowice
Let's check Serral. GSL vs The World, Blizzcon... uhm, oh, damn, and GSL vs The world.
Cool.
Edit> Considering many Serral fanboys are saying that Code S is a different form of tournament and that's why Maru is so bad at weekenders(lulz), then we have to accept the fact this goes both ways. Since Code S is a different form of tournament and Serral has never shown anything to make us believe he could win. He's not capable. (well, I say we can't say as we don't know but since you're so sure I will change this to be so sure either )[/QUOTE]
In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable.[/QUOTE] In the longterm? Sure, no question about that. But Rogue's peak is higher and up to this day better than Serral's whole career. 2 WC titles and 2 another big tournaments. In a row. It's one of the raesons of the stupid patch zerg article.[/QUOTE]
In my opinion a peak isn't as impressive as consistency. [/QUOTE] Nobody was talking about that though The question was who dominated weekenders harder, Rogue or Serral So, uhm, yeah
Well then Serral who has been dominating in weekenders consistently for so long wins hands down vs Rogue... So, uhm, yeah just my opinion
On September 09 2019 13:49 Xitah wrote: Why do we have to bring up GSL every time? Serral can win GSL, easily. He is 100% the best zerg in the world and very likely also the best player. Why would anyone doubt the chances of the best Zerg and/or the best player winning a GSL?
I know people bring up the preparation times in GSL that "but in GSL opponents prepare for you." Well, TY had a long time to prepare for Serral in GSL vs The World and he got stomped anyways. People had time to prepare for him in Blizzcon. If Serral had such a disadvantage in preparation matches, it would have showed it already, just like how Maru has shown his weakness in weekend tournaments. In any tournaments where they announce the bracket in advance, and your first match is against Serral, then you know you have to prepare for him, or else you shouldn't prepare at all.
If WCS is so hard to win, why does Serral dominate WCS so hard but only wins a 3rd of non-region-locked tournaments (3 out of 9!! Hurrayy bonjwaaa!!!!)?
Without checking, he placed top 4 in all of them I guess? And who won more than him?
Charoisaur keeps including IEM Katowice 2018 and WESG 2017, both played after Serral's first WCS title but before he demonstrated he could reach finals in tournaments with koreans, and excluding HSC XVIII(it's a Premier, deal with it). After that, Serral is 4/7 in international events he plays(not considering his HSC XIX title, a Major due to its reduced prize pool); in the same timespan, Serral won 5/7 WCS tournaments.
Serral's worst result was a top 8 at IEM Katowice 2019, but I won't stop underlying that, after his ascesion, he only lost to the eventual winner; the internationl tournaments Serral lost went to soO, Inno and Stats(Rogue and Maru won the ones played in early 2018), while Reynor won both the WCS events in which he defeated Serral.
Edit: GSL Super Tournament II 2017 was a korean tournament, Rogue won three international titles in his whole career compared to Serral's four; that's korean elitists fooling themselves, not being evil.
If you count consecutive Premier tournaments, Rogue won two in a row compared to Serral's six; if you extend this to weekenders, Rogue won four compared to the said six. If you want to take a look at peak, Serral won 6/6 in six months while Rogue won 4/7 in eight months; if you take into consideration consecutive international weekenders, Rogue and Serral are tied at three each.
Rogue has a single point over Serral: he won one more World Championship than Serral(we can discuss if IEM Shanghai+Katowice is a better achievement than GSL vs The World+HSC).
On September 09 2019 13:49 Xitah wrote: Why do we have to bring up GSL every time? Serral can win GSL, easily. He is 100% the best zerg in the world and very likely also the best player. Why would anyone doubt the chances of the best Zerg and/or the best player winning a GSL?
I know people bring up the preparation times in GSL that "but in GSL opponents prepare for you." Well, TY had a long time to prepare for Serral in GSL vs The World and he got stomped anyways. People had time to prepare for him in Blizzcon. If Serral had such a disadvantage in preparation matches, it would have showed it already, just like how Maru has shown his weakness in weekend tournaments. In any tournaments where they announce the bracket in advance, and your first match is against Serral, then you know you have to prepare for him, or else you shouldn't prepare at all.
If WCS is so hard to win, why does Serral dominate WCS so hard but only wins a 3rd of non-region-locked tournaments (3 out of 9!! Hurrayy bonjwaaa!!!!)?
Without checking, he placed top 4 in all of them I guess? And who won more than him?
In the last 2 years, he did 2 ro8 losing to soO and Scarlett, he lost in ro4 against Classic, Maru and Stats and lost 3 finals one against Inno, and two against Reynor. Meanwhile he won 2 gsl vs the world, 6 wcs, Blizzcon and two 2 hsc (with one counting as a PREMIER forgotten by deacon which actually makes 3 weekender wins with koreans in a row, in total it's 4 PREMIER with koreans and 5 tournaments overall with his second hsc). That's insane regularity, especially considering weekenders can be supposed more volatile, he is the clear second best zerg ever for me. Not only because of his results but his play, he does everything right and is good in every aspect of the game. (Sth that soO always lacked...)
On September 09 2019 14:48 Charoisaur wrote: Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know.
It's not true that "Rogue dominated weekeners harder". Serral: Serral Rogue: Rogue
You are adding sufficiently many quantifiers (1) winning (2) non-region-locked (3) non-invite-only (4) in a row to make a claim. That's definitely subjective. Ignore all the "non-region-locked" events if you want. Serral's results are more impressive than Rogue.
But then again, the point is not that Serral in BONJWA[ or whatever. The point is that Serral is capable of winning a GSL, so participating in GSL is no longer such an interesting question.
Here's a question, where do you think Serral would get eliminated in a GSL? R32 and R16 are almost like a weekener where you have to prepare for 3 people, so he's highly favored to make it to the play offs. Now, take the current playoffs and replace Dark with Serral. I would say he and Maru will be the top candidates to win. Then let him participate 3 times in GSL per year and he can win one. It's no longer a mystery.
Edit: Also, nobody claimed that "WCS is so hard to win" so that point is entirely strawman.
Rogue won in a row the following: IEM Shanghai GSL ST2 Blizzcon IEM WC Katowice
Let's check Serral. GSL vs The World, Blizzcon... uhm, oh, damn, and GSL vs The world.
Cool.
Edit> Considering many Serral fanboys are saying that Code S is a different form of tournament and that's why Maru is so bad at weekenders(lulz), then we have to accept the fact this goes both ways. Since Code S is a different form of tournament and Serral has never shown anything to make us believe he could win. He's not capable. (well, I say we can't say as we don't know but since you're so sure I will change this to be so sure either )
In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable.
In the longterm? Sure, no question about that. But Rogue's peak is higher and up to this day better than Serral's whole career. 2 WC titles and 2 another big tournaments. In a row. It's one of the raesons of the stupid patch zerg article.
In my opinion a peak isn't as impressive as consistency.
Nobody was talking about that though The question was who dominated weekenders harder, Rogue or Serral So, uhm, yeah
In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable.
In the longterm? Sure, no question about that. But Rogue's peak is higher and up to this day better than Serral's whole career. 2 WC titles and 2 another big tournaments. In a row. It's one of the raesons of the stupid patch zerg article.
Again, why arent HSC counted in ? Several Koreans participated and beaten there by Serral.
And secondly, how in earth is it "better than Serral´s whole career" ? Thats just delusional. And you just have to see how he has done in other competitions too. He has been in top-4 in almost every tournament and most of them in finals or then lost only to the winner. Rogue had a short and good period of ruling, but its imo not comparable to Serral in any way.
What goes to this forever discussion about GSL. Lets take this seasons top-8 for review compared their shot against Serral:
GSL season 3 top-8:
Dark, TY, Rogue, Zest, KeeN, Trap, Maru, Ragnarok
Dark: Last time lost to Elazer, who is few classes below Serral. In current form, cant see Serral losing this.
TY: They have fought few times recently and Serral outclassed TY both times.
Rogue: Bit better version of Dark in ZvZ, but still would consider Raynor being bigger threat than Rogue tbh.
Zest: Have fought few times(?). No match for Serral.
KeeN: Havent seen him play, so its non-conclusive. However he propably isnt Maru/TY-caliber, so propably would get stomped as others.
Trap: Again, they fought, Serral stomped.
Ragnarok: He is Korean zerg. So nope.
Maru: Well this is the only one debatable imo. But comparing the current form of them, at this moment I would give Serral around 80% chance to win. Maru is nowhere near his peak and Serral is a monster.
And in addition for example Neeb made it to top-4 in GSL. Look how Serral treats him nowadays. GSL Season 2 top-8 were: Classic, soO, Trap, Innovation, Hurricane, Parting, herO, Dark. And from those, only Innovation can challenge Serral, when he has his lategame in form. And even then I think Serral would be a favorite. Or if you disagree, who of those could realistically beat Serral ?
So, all-in-all, we can safely conclude that Serral has a high chance to win GSL if he participated. Even Koreans fear and dont want to face him anymore.
Rogue has 2 consecutive World Championship titles. Serral has 1 WC title. Rogue has 4 big tournaments win in a row, Serral has 3 big tournament wins. Not in a row.
Yes, Serral is better in being consistent over the last 2 years, Rogue had much better and higher peak, even more impressive. If some insist on naming Serral banjo and other fancy titles, we have to add them to all the "faceless" Koreans we skipped before. e.g. Innovation, Maru, Mvp, Life(muhehehe ), Rogue, sOs(3 WC titles), ByuN(another insane peak)...
It's not as easy as it sounds, is it?
Also the discussion was started by some post, read it. It's in the quote. That should solve the mistery of HSC.
Edit> It would be quite funny to see Life named bonjwa just to remove this title for his crime Oh boy(by the BW standards he was the closest to this title because of 1) Starleague wins(Serral has none) 2) KeSPA era
Korean elitists being evil again(and please don't use Artosis banjo naming, somebody else arleady pointed out in the previous threads he's not exactly saving them for the top players and he's using the title multiple times a year) )
You need to work on your thoroughness of research. It's pretty obvious that you're only looking at specific data points to prove your bias, and consequently overlooking important details. In between WCS Global 2017 and Katowice IEM, Rogue failed to make it out of the Ro32 in GSL S1. So it's 3 consecutive wins. If you count HSC Winter 2018 for Serral, which you should, Serral would also have 3 consecutive global wins.
However, this arbitrary definition that a "peak" entails consecutive tournament wins is just that—arbitrary. Tournament results are heavily based on chance, as everybody knows; the better/best player very often loses. GSL vs TW 2019 illustrates this better than anything else (no offense, Elazer). The single elimination format is the culprit.
On September 09 2019 13:49 Xitah wrote: Why do we have to bring up GSL every time? Serral can win GSL, easily. He is 100% the best zerg in the world and very likely also the best player. Why would anyone doubt the chances of the best Zerg and/or the best player winning a GSL?
I know people bring up the preparation times in GSL that "but in GSL opponents prepare for you." Well, TY had a long time to prepare for Serral in GSL vs The World and he got stomped anyways. People had time to prepare for him in Blizzcon. If Serral had such a disadvantage in preparation matches, it would have showed it already, just like how Maru has shown his weakness in weekend tournaments. In any tournaments where they announce the bracket in advance, and your first match is against Serral, then you know you have to prepare for him, or else you shouldn't prepare at all.
If WCS is so hard to win, why does Serral dominate WCS so hard but only wins a 3rd of non-region-locked tournaments (3 out of 9!! Hurrayy bonjwaaa!!!!)?
Without checking, he placed top 4 in all of them I guess? And who won more than him?
In the last 2 years, he did 2 ro8 losing to soO and Scarlett, he lost in ro4 against Classic, Maru and Stats and lost 3 finals one against Inno, and two against Reynor. Meanwhile he won 2 gsl vs the world, 6 wcs, Blizzcon and two 2 hsc (with one counting as a PREMIER forgotten by deacon which actually makes 3 weekender wins with koreans in a row, in total it's 4 PREMIER with koreans and 5 tournaments overall with his second hsc). That's insane regularity, especially considering weekenders can be supposed more volatile, he is the clear second best zerg ever for me. Not only because of his results but his play, he does everything right and is good in every aspect of the game. (Sth that soO always lacked...)
We have 3 international tournaments left this year and I kinda expect Serral to take all of them (but I dunno the format for NationWars right now, so maybe that one is near impossible ^^' ) And if he does, he is the #1 Zerg to ever play this game IMO (even ahead of the one that should not be named)
On September 09 2019 13:49 Xitah wrote: Why do we have to bring up GSL every time? Serral can win GSL, easily. He is 100% the best zerg in the world and very likely also the best player. Why would anyone doubt the chances of the best Zerg and/or the best player winning a GSL?
I know people bring up the preparation times in GSL that "but in GSL opponents prepare for you." Well, TY had a long time to prepare for Serral in GSL vs The World and he got stomped anyways. People had time to prepare for him in Blizzcon. If Serral had such a disadvantage in preparation matches, it would have showed it already, just like how Maru has shown his weakness in weekend tournaments. In any tournaments where they announce the bracket in advance, and your first match is against Serral, then you know you have to prepare for him, or else you shouldn't prepare at all.
If WCS is so hard to win, why does Serral dominate WCS so hard but only wins a 3rd of non-region-locked tournaments (3 out of 9!! Hurrayy bonjwaaa!!!!)?
Without checking, he placed top 4 in all of them I guess? And who won more than him?
In the last 2 years, he did 2 ro8 losing to soO and Scarlett, he lost in ro4 against Classic, Maru and Stats and lost 3 finals one against Inno, and two against Reynor. Meanwhile he won 2 gsl vs the world, 6 wcs, Blizzcon and two 2 hsc (with one counting as a PREMIER forgotten by deacon which actually makes 3 weekender wins with koreans in a row, in total it's 4 PREMIER with koreans and 5 tournaments overall with his second hsc). That's insane regularity, especially considering weekenders can be supposed more volatile, he is the clear second best zerg ever for me. Not only because of his results but his play, he does everything right and is good in every aspect of the game. (Sth that soO always lacked...)
We have 3 international tournaments left this year and I kinda expect Serral to take all of them (but I dunno the format for NationWars right now, so maybe that one is near impossible ^^' ) And if he does, he is the #1 Zerg to ever play this game IMO (even ahead of the one that should not be named)
What’s the third out of interest? Blizzcon, Nation Wars and one other?
I think at this stage just from watching his games Serral’s if nothing else the most rounded and complete Zerg to play SC2. He’s top class in all 3 matchups and can switch gears stylistically better than others I can think of, at least without going back and pouring over VODs. Maybe not exactly as well, but if we’re segmenting the strengths of other Zergs, he can play really aggressively in a non cheese manner like Dark, can roll people with macro and mechanics like soO and has a scary lategame like Rogue. His in-game reads and starsense are scary as well, so he consistently makes the right calls too.
If there’s something that’s in the Zerg toolbox he finds a way to use it and use it well.
On September 09 2019 13:49 Xitah wrote: Why do we have to bring up GSL every time? Serral can win GSL, easily. He is 100% the best zerg in the world and very likely also the best player. Why would anyone doubt the chances of the best Zerg and/or the best player winning a GSL?
I know people bring up the preparation times in GSL that "but in GSL opponents prepare for you." Well, TY had a long time to prepare for Serral in GSL vs The World and he got stomped anyways. People had time to prepare for him in Blizzcon. If Serral had such a disadvantage in preparation matches, it would have showed it already, just like how Maru has shown his weakness in weekend tournaments. In any tournaments where they announce the bracket in advance, and your first match is against Serral, then you know you have to prepare for him, or else you shouldn't prepare at all.
If WCS is so hard to win, why does Serral dominate WCS so hard but only wins a 3rd of non-region-locked tournaments (3 out of 9!! Hurrayy bonjwaaa!!!!)?
Without checking, he placed top 4 in all of them I guess? And who won more than him?
In the last 2 years, he did 2 ro8 losing to soO and Scarlett, he lost in ro4 against Classic, Maru and Stats and lost 3 finals one against Inno, and two against Reynor. Meanwhile he won 2 gsl vs the world, 6 wcs, Blizzcon and two 2 hsc (with one counting as a PREMIER forgotten by deacon which actually makes 3 weekender wins with koreans in a row, in total it's 4 PREMIER with koreans and 5 tournaments overall with his second hsc). That's insane regularity, especially considering weekenders can be supposed more volatile, he is the clear second best zerg ever for me. Not only because of his results but his play, he does everything right and is good in every aspect of the game. (Sth that soO always lacked...)
We have 3 international tournaments left this year and I kinda expect Serral to take all of them (but I dunno the format for NationWars right now, so maybe that one is near impossible ^^' ) And if he does, he is the #1 Zerg to ever play this game IMO (even ahead of the one that should not be named)
What’s the third out of interest? Blizzcon, Nation Wars and one other?
I think at this stage just from watching his games Serral’s if nothing else the most rounded and complete Zerg to play SC2. He’s top class in all 3 matchups and can switch gears stylistically better than others I can think of, at least without going back and pouring over VODs. Maybe not exactly as well, but if we’re segmenting the strengths of other Zergs, he can play really aggressively in a non cheese manner like Dark, can roll people with macro and mechanics like soO and has a scary lategame like Rogue. His in-game reads and starsense are scary as well, so he consistently makes the right calls too.
If there’s something that’s in the Zerg toolbox he finds a way to use it and use it well.
The beloved HomeStoryCup of course! 20th anniversary, unfortunately not in Vegas (as was planned in the past) but in Berlin I think. Almost the same ^^
On September 09 2019 13:49 Xitah wrote: Why do we have to bring up GSL every time? Serral can win GSL, easily. He is 100% the best zerg in the world and very likely also the best player. Why would anyone doubt the chances of the best Zerg and/or the best player winning a GSL?
I know people bring up the preparation times in GSL that "but in GSL opponents prepare for you." Well, TY had a long time to prepare for Serral in GSL vs The World and he got stomped anyways. People had time to prepare for him in Blizzcon. If Serral had such a disadvantage in preparation matches, it would have showed it already, just like how Maru has shown his weakness in weekend tournaments. In any tournaments where they announce the bracket in advance, and your first match is against Serral, then you know you have to prepare for him, or else you shouldn't prepare at all.
If WCS is so hard to win, why does Serral dominate WCS so hard but only wins a 3rd of non-region-locked tournaments (3 out of 9!! Hurrayy bonjwaaa!!!!)?
Without checking, he placed top 4 in all of them I guess? And who won more than him?
In the last 2 years, he did 2 ro8 losing to soO and Scarlett, he lost in ro4 against Classic, Maru and Stats and lost 3 finals one against Inno, and two against Reynor. Meanwhile he won 2 gsl vs the world, 6 wcs, Blizzcon and two 2 hsc (with one counting as a PREMIER forgotten by deacon which actually makes 3 weekender wins with koreans in a row, in total it's 4 PREMIER with koreans and 5 tournaments overall with his second hsc). That's insane regularity, especially considering weekenders can be supposed more volatile, he is the clear second best zerg ever for me. Not only because of his results but his play, he does everything right and is good in every aspect of the game. (Sth that soO always lacked...)
We have 3 international tournaments left this year and I kinda expect Serral to take all of them (but I dunno the format for NationWars right now, so maybe that one is near impossible ^^' ) And if he does, he is the #1 Zerg to ever play this game IMO (even ahead of the one that should not be named)
What’s the third out of interest? Blizzcon, Nation Wars and one other?
I think at this stage just from watching his games Serral’s if nothing else the most rounded and complete Zerg to play SC2. He’s top class in all 3 matchups and can switch gears stylistically better than others I can think of, at least without going back and pouring over VODs. Maybe not exactly as well, but if we’re segmenting the strengths of other Zergs, he can play really aggressively in a non cheese manner like Dark, can roll people with macro and mechanics like soO and has a scary lategame like Rogue. His in-game reads and starsense are scary as well, so he consistently makes the right calls too.
If there’s something that’s in the Zerg toolbox he finds a way to use it and use it well.
The beloved HomeStoryCup of course! 20th anniversary, unfortunately not in Vegas (as was planned in the past) but in Berlin I think. Almost the same ^^
Really not sure how I forgot about that one saying as I’m meant to be going on a pilgrimage with a bunch of Irish Starcraft nuts
I think everyone is forgetting that Terran is the hardest race to play. There is a reason that Terrans are the only ones with wrist issues. The only reason Maru lost was because of wrist issues. Other than that, Maru >>>> Serral any day. All Serral needs to do is spam Nydus Worms to win early game, or spam Broodlords and Infestors to win late game. Terran needs to micro their units around and try to dodge Zerg (or Protoss) spells.
And there is a reason that the so-called top 2 players in the WCS circuit are Serral and Reynor. There's a reason why there is no dominant race in GSL. GSL players rely on their own skill. WCS players rely on the easiest race to play + patches to get more foreign viewers.
On September 10 2019 00:25 evanreyes94 wrote: I think everyone is forgetting that Terran is the hardest race to play. There is a reason that Terrans are the only ones with wrist issues. The only reason Maru lost was because of wrist issues. Other than that, Maru >>>> Serral any day. All Serral needs to do is spam Nydus Worms to win early game, or spam Broodlords and Infestors to win late game. Terran needs to micro their units around and try to dodge Zerg (or Protoss) spells.
And there is a reason that the so-called top 2 players in the WCS circuit are Serral and Reynor. There's a reason why there is no dominant race in GSL. GSL players rely on their own skill. WCS players rely on the easiest race to play + patches to get more foreign viewers.
Did you come out of that Lings of Liberty article someone linked today? You speak like the OP of that thread, published back in 2012. Open your eyes and watch carefully, you are living in the past; Zerg being an easy race is a long dead meme(while Terran being holy and sacred unfortunately is not), you shouldn't be unearthing it for no reason. What you are saying is utterly ridicolous and it applies the least to Serral who steamrolled everyone at BlizzCon before Nydus was buffed and BL Infestor came back as a viable strat.
There's no dominant race in GSL, you say? In LoTV, Terran won 7/9 Code S and Protoss won 5/6 Super Tournaments; to each their competition to dominate.
On September 09 2019 14:48 Charoisaur wrote: Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know.
It's not true that "Rogue dominated weekeners harder". Serral: Serral Rogue: Rogue
You are adding sufficiently many quantifiers (1) winning (2) non-region-locked (3) non-invite-only (4) in a row to make a claim. That's definitely subjective. Ignore all the "non-region-locked" events if you want. Serral's results are more impressive than Rogue.
But then again, the point is not that Serral in BONJWA[ or whatever. The point is that Serral is capable of winning a GSL, so participating in GSL is no longer such an interesting question.
Here's a question, where do you think Serral would get eliminated in a GSL? R32 and R16 are almost like a weekener where you have to prepare for 3 people, so he's highly favored to make it to the play offs. Now, take the current playoffs and replace Dark with Serral. I would say he and Maru will be the top candidates to win. Then let him participate 3 times in GSL per year and he can win one. It's no longer a mystery.
Edit: Also, nobody claimed that "WCS is so hard to win" so that point is entirely strawman.
Rogue won in a row the following: IEM Shanghai GSL ST2 Blizzcon IEM WC Katowice
Let's check Serral. GSL vs The World, Blizzcon... uhm, oh, damn, and GSL vs The world.
Cool.
Edit> Considering many Serral fanboys are saying that Code S is a different form of tournament and that's why Maru is so bad at weekenders(lulz), then we have to accept the fact this goes both ways. Since Code S is a different form of tournament and Serral has never shown anything to make us believe he could win. He's not capable. (well, I say we can't say as we don't know but since you're so sure I will change this to be so sure either )
In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable.
In my opinion Serral is no where near as impressive as Rogue. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... they're just not comparable.
On September 09 2019 14:48 Charoisaur wrote: Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know.
It's not true that "Rogue dominated weekeners harder". Serral: Serral Rogue: Rogue
You are adding sufficiently many quantifiers (1) winning (2) non-region-locked (3) non-invite-only (4) in a row to make a claim. That's definitely subjective. Ignore all the "non-region-locked" events if you want. Serral's results are more impressive than Rogue.
But then again, the point is not that Serral in BONJWA[ or whatever. The point is that Serral is capable of winning a GSL, so participating in GSL is no longer such an interesting question.
Here's a question, where do you think Serral would get eliminated in a GSL? R32 and R16 are almost like a weekener where you have to prepare for 3 people, so he's highly favored to make it to the play offs. Now, take the current playoffs and replace Dark with Serral. I would say he and Maru will be the top candidates to win. Then let him participate 3 times in GSL per year and he can win one. It's no longer a mystery.
Edit: Also, nobody claimed that "WCS is so hard to win" so that point is entirely strawman.
Rogue won in a row the following: IEM Shanghai GSL ST2 Blizzcon IEM WC Katowice
Let's check Serral. GSL vs The World, Blizzcon... uhm, oh, damn, and GSL vs The world.
Cool.
Edit> Considering many Serral fanboys are saying that Code S is a different form of tournament and that's why Maru is so bad at weekenders(lulz), then we have to accept the fact this goes both ways. Since Code S is a different form of tournament and Serral has never shown anything to make us believe he could win. He's not capable. (well, I say we can't say as we don't know but since you're so sure I will change this to be so sure either )
In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable.
In my opinion Serral is no where near as impressive as Rogue. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... they're just not comparable.
Rogue dosen't even make the top 5 zerg list for me
On September 09 2019 14:48 Charoisaur wrote: Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know.
It's not true that "Rogue dominated weekeners harder". Serral: Serral Rogue: Rogue
You are adding sufficiently many quantifiers (1) winning (2) non-region-locked (3) non-invite-only (4) in a row to make a claim. That's definitely subjective. Ignore all the "non-region-locked" events if you want. Serral's results are more impressive than Rogue.
But then again, the point is not that Serral in BONJWA[ or whatever. The point is that Serral is capable of winning a GSL, so participating in GSL is no longer such an interesting question.
Here's a question, where do you think Serral would get eliminated in a GSL? R32 and R16 are almost like a weekener where you have to prepare for 3 people, so he's highly favored to make it to the play offs. Now, take the current playoffs and replace Dark with Serral. I would say he and Maru will be the top candidates to win. Then let him participate 3 times in GSL per year and he can win one. It's no longer a mystery.
Edit: Also, nobody claimed that "WCS is so hard to win" so that point is entirely strawman.
Rogue won in a row the following: IEM Shanghai GSL ST2 Blizzcon IEM WC Katowice
Let's check Serral. GSL vs The World, Blizzcon... uhm, oh, damn, and GSL vs The world.
Cool.
Edit> Considering many Serral fanboys are saying that Code S is a different form of tournament and that's why Maru is so bad at weekenders(lulz), then we have to accept the fact this goes both ways. Since Code S is a different form of tournament and Serral has never shown anything to make us believe he could win. He's not capable. (well, I say we can't say as we don't know but since you're so sure I will change this to be so sure either )
In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable.
In my opinion Serral is no where near as impressive as Rogue. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... they're just not comparable.
Rogue dosen't even make the top 5 zerg list for me
For you, yes. However, objectively, Serral is not a top 5 Zerg, let alone top 5 player. Maybe in the WCS circuit, but not outside of that.
On September 09 2019 14:48 Charoisaur wrote: Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know.
It's not true that "Rogue dominated weekeners harder". Serral: Serral Rogue: Rogue
You are adding sufficiently many quantifiers (1) winning (2) non-region-locked (3) non-invite-only (4) in a row to make a claim. That's definitely subjective. Ignore all the "non-region-locked" events if you want. Serral's results are more impressive than Rogue.
But then again, the point is not that Serral in BONJWA[ or whatever. The point is that Serral is capable of winning a GSL, so participating in GSL is no longer such an interesting question.
Here's a question, where do you think Serral would get eliminated in a GSL? R32 and R16 are almost like a weekener where you have to prepare for 3 people, so he's highly favored to make it to the play offs. Now, take the current playoffs and replace Dark with Serral. I would say he and Maru will be the top candidates to win. Then let him participate 3 times in GSL per year and he can win one. It's no longer a mystery.
Edit: Also, nobody claimed that "WCS is so hard to win" so that point is entirely strawman.
Rogue won in a row the following: IEM Shanghai GSL ST2 Blizzcon IEM WC Katowice
Let's check Serral. GSL vs The World, Blizzcon... uhm, oh, damn, and GSL vs The world.
Cool.
Edit> Considering many Serral fanboys are saying that Code S is a different form of tournament and that's why Maru is so bad at weekenders(lulz), then we have to accept the fact this goes both ways. Since Code S is a different form of tournament and Serral has never shown anything to make us believe he could win. He's not capable. (well, I say we can't say as we don't know but since you're so sure I will change this to be so sure either )
In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable.
In my opinion Serral is no where near as impressive as Rogue. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... they're just not comparable.
Rogue dosen't even make the top 5 zerg list for me
For you, yes. However, objectively, Serral is not a top 5 Zerg, let alone top 5 player. Maybe in the WCS circuit, but not outside of that.
On September 09 2019 14:48 Charoisaur wrote: Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know.
It's not true that "Rogue dominated weekeners harder". Serral: Serral Rogue: Rogue
You are adding sufficiently many quantifiers (1) winning (2) non-region-locked (3) non-invite-only (4) in a row to make a claim. That's definitely subjective. Ignore all the "non-region-locked" events if you want. Serral's results are more impressive than Rogue.
But then again, the point is not that Serral in BONJWA[ or whatever. The point is that Serral is capable of winning a GSL, so participating in GSL is no longer such an interesting question.
Here's a question, where do you think Serral would get eliminated in a GSL? R32 and R16 are almost like a weekener where you have to prepare for 3 people, so he's highly favored to make it to the play offs. Now, take the current playoffs and replace Dark with Serral. I would say he and Maru will be the top candidates to win. Then let him participate 3 times in GSL per year and he can win one. It's no longer a mystery.
Edit: Also, nobody claimed that "WCS is so hard to win" so that point is entirely strawman.
Rogue won in a row the following: IEM Shanghai GSL ST2 Blizzcon IEM WC Katowice
Let's check Serral. GSL vs The World, Blizzcon... uhm, oh, damn, and GSL vs The world.
Cool.
Edit> Considering many Serral fanboys are saying that Code S is a different form of tournament and that's why Maru is so bad at weekenders(lulz), then we have to accept the fact this goes both ways. Since Code S is a different form of tournament and Serral has never shown anything to make us believe he could win. He's not capable. (well, I say we can't say as we don't know but since you're so sure I will change this to be so sure either )
In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable.
In my opinion Serral is no where near as impressive as Rogue. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... they're just not comparable.
Rogue dosen't even make the top 5 zerg list for me
For you, yes. However, objectively, Serral is not a top 5 Zerg, let alone top 5 player. Maybe in the WCS circuit, but not outside of that.
I know it's a troll but if something is "objective" than it is as objective for me as for anyone else, it's not a matter of opinion but direct, verifiable, truth. In anycase it dosen't matter here since it is clearly not such a case.
The two or three holdouts making weak counterfactual arguments ('but... but... but... he's never REALLY won GSL !' 'He could...or he could not !') are beginning to be up there with other great TL debates deniers : gun control, climate change, Brexit.
Let's just all agree that power level wise, Serral = Jiren, Maru = Goku, and Stats = Vegeta, alright ? No banjos needed.
On September 09 2019 14:48 Charoisaur wrote: Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know.
It's not true that "Rogue dominated weekeners harder". Serral: Serral Rogue: Rogue
You are adding sufficiently many quantifiers (1) winning (2) non-region-locked (3) non-invite-only (4) in a row to make a claim. That's definitely subjective. Ignore all the "non-region-locked" events if you want. Serral's results are more impressive than Rogue.
But then again, the point is not that Serral in BONJWA[ or whatever. The point is that Serral is capable of winning a GSL, so participating in GSL is no longer such an interesting question.
Here's a question, where do you think Serral would get eliminated in a GSL? R32 and R16 are almost like a weekener where you have to prepare for 3 people, so he's highly favored to make it to the play offs. Now, take the current playoffs and replace Dark with Serral. I would say he and Maru will be the top candidates to win. Then let him participate 3 times in GSL per year and he can win one. It's no longer a mystery.
Edit: Also, nobody claimed that "WCS is so hard to win" so that point is entirely strawman.
Rogue won in a row the following: IEM Shanghai GSL ST2 Blizzcon IEM WC Katowice
Let's check Serral. GSL vs The World, Blizzcon... uhm, oh, damn, and GSL vs The world.
Cool.
Edit> Considering many Serral fanboys are saying that Code S is a different form of tournament and that's why Maru is so bad at weekenders(lulz), then we have to accept the fact this goes both ways. Since Code S is a different form of tournament and Serral has never shown anything to make us believe he could win. He's not capable. (well, I say we can't say as we don't know but since you're so sure I will change this to be so sure either )
In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable.
In my opinion Serral is no where near as impressive as Rogue. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... they're just not comparable.
^^ I know you're trolling, but that one was bad even for you haha not even the most avid foreigner hater will agree with you (and you don't either of course). At least come with believable arguments like "I think Rogue had a higher peak". I can respect that opinion even if I don't agree :-)
On September 09 2019 14:48 Charoisaur wrote: Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know.
It's not true that "Rogue dominated weekeners harder". Serral: Serral Rogue: Rogue
You are adding sufficiently many quantifiers (1) winning (2) non-region-locked (3) non-invite-only (4) in a row to make a claim. That's definitely subjective. Ignore all the "non-region-locked" events if you want. Serral's results are more impressive than Rogue.
But then again, the point is not that Serral in BONJWA[ or whatever. The point is that Serral is capable of winning a GSL, so participating in GSL is no longer such an interesting question.
Here's a question, where do you think Serral would get eliminated in a GSL? R32 and R16 are almost like a weekener where you have to prepare for 3 people, so he's highly favored to make it to the play offs. Now, take the current playoffs and replace Dark with Serral. I would say he and Maru will be the top candidates to win. Then let him participate 3 times in GSL per year and he can win one. It's no longer a mystery.
Edit: Also, nobody claimed that "WCS is so hard to win" so that point is entirely strawman.
Rogue won in a row the following: IEM Shanghai GSL ST2 Blizzcon IEM WC Katowice
Let's check Serral. GSL vs The World, Blizzcon... uhm, oh, damn, and GSL vs The world.
Cool.
Edit> Considering many Serral fanboys are saying that Code S is a different form of tournament and that's why Maru is so bad at weekenders(lulz), then we have to accept the fact this goes both ways. Since Code S is a different form of tournament and Serral has never shown anything to make us believe he could win. He's not capable. (well, I say we can't say as we don't know but since you're so sure I will change this to be so sure either )
In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable.
In my opinion Serral is no where near as impressive as Rogue. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... they're just not comparable.
Rogue dosen't even make the top 5 zerg list for me
For you, yes. However, objectively, Serral is not a top 5 Zerg, let alone top 5 player. Maybe in the WCS circuit, but not outside of that.
I know it's a troll but if something is "objective" than it is as objective for me as for anyone else, it's not a matter of opinion but direct, verifiable, truth. In anycase it dosen't matter here since it is clearly not such a case.
I meant top 5 z all time by the way not right now
Are you trolling or what?
Serral is definitely not a top 5 Zerg of all time. Not even close. If you look at any metrics for a top 5 Zerg, Serral does not fit any of the criteria. That right there is objectivity. I will grant you that Serral is an okay Zerg, but not a top 5 calibre Zerg. I will admit that Serral is a top 5 FOREIGN Zerg of all time though. Maybe 3 or 4.
On September 09 2019 14:48 Charoisaur wrote: Rogue dominated weekenders harder than Serral (He won more non-region-locked, non-invite-only weekenders in a row than Serral has in his entire career) and was unable to win a GSL. Serral may be able to win a GSL but he also may not be able to win a GSL, we don't know.
It's not true that "Rogue dominated weekeners harder". Serral: Serral Rogue: Rogue
You are adding sufficiently many quantifiers (1) winning (2) non-region-locked (3) non-invite-only (4) in a row to make a claim. That's definitely subjective. Ignore all the "non-region-locked" events if you want. Serral's results are more impressive than Rogue.
But then again, the point is not that Serral in BONJWA[ or whatever. The point is that Serral is capable of winning a GSL, so participating in GSL is no longer such an interesting question.
Here's a question, where do you think Serral would get eliminated in a GSL? R32 and R16 are almost like a weekener where you have to prepare for 3 people, so he's highly favored to make it to the play offs. Now, take the current playoffs and replace Dark with Serral. I would say he and Maru will be the top candidates to win. Then let him participate 3 times in GSL per year and he can win one. It's no longer a mystery.
Edit: Also, nobody claimed that "WCS is so hard to win" so that point is entirely strawman.
Rogue won in a row the following: IEM Shanghai GSL ST2 Blizzcon IEM WC Katowice
Let's check Serral. GSL vs The World, Blizzcon... uhm, oh, damn, and GSL vs The world.
Cool.
Edit> Considering many Serral fanboys are saying that Code S is a different form of tournament and that's why Maru is so bad at weekenders(lulz), then we have to accept the fact this goes both ways. Since Code S is a different form of tournament and Serral has never shown anything to make us believe he could win. He's not capable. (well, I say we can't say as we don't know but since you're so sure I will change this to be so sure either )
In my opinion Rogue is no where near as impressive as Serral. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... They're just not comparable.
In my opinion Serral is no where near as impressive as Rogue. The consistency in winning and the way he plays and wins... they're just not comparable.
Rogue dosen't even make the top 5 zerg list for me
For you, yes. However, objectively, Serral is not a top 5 Zerg, let alone top 5 player. Maybe in the WCS circuit, but not outside of that.
I know it's a troll but if something is "objective" than it is as objective for me as for anyone else, it's not a matter of opinion but direct, verifiable, truth. In anycase it dosen't matter here since it is clearly not such a case.
I meant top 5 z all time by the way not right now
Are you trolling or what?
Serral is definitely not a top 5 Zerg of all time. Not even close. If you look at any metrics for a top 5 Zerg, Serral does not fit any of the criteria. That right there is objectivity. I will grant you that Serral is an okay Zerg, but not a top 5 calibre Zerg. I will admit that Serral is a top 5 FOREIGN Zerg of all time though. Maybe 3 or 4.
Any metrics? Objectivity, again? I am genuinely very interested to hear what your criteria are.
On September 10 2019 03:38 MyLovelyLurker wrote: The two or three holdouts making weak counterfactual arguments ('but... but... but... he's never REALLY won GSL !' 'He could...or he could not !') are beginning to be up there with other great TL debates deniers : gun control, climate change, Brexit.
Let's just all agree that power level wise, Serral = Jiren, Maru = Goku, and Stats = Vegeta, alright ? No banjos needed.
The fuck is Goku, Jiren or VEgeta? Unless you meant Vegetol.
On September 10 2019 03:38 MyLovelyLurker wrote: The two or three holdouts making weak counterfactual arguments ('but... but... but... he's never REALLY won GSL !' 'He could...or he could not !') are beginning to be up there with other great TL debates deniers : gun control, climate change, Brexit.
Let's just all agree that power level wise, Serral = Jiren, Maru = Goku, and Stats = Vegeta, alright ? No banjos needed.
The fuck is Goku, Jiren or VEgeta? Unless you meant Vegetol.
EPT
2019 WCS Fall
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