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well at least series with sOs are always wildly entertaining.
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Would be so funny if sOs blindly rushes one of the golds.
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On July 03 2015 20:59 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2015 20:58 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:56 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:52 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:51 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:49 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:47 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:45 lastride wrote:
The design of this unit is just ridiculous lol Are you actually hating on phoenixes? That's just ridiculous. "Let's make the fastest unit in the game be able to shoot while moving, while at the same time give it an upgrade for 7 range, what could possibly go wrong?" Playing phoenix styles also takes great multitasking, good phoenix control (which is very hard), good decisionmaking, etc. Phoenixes are far better designed than 99% of everything else in the game. Nah, they aren't, they are pretty horrible but it's ok, I didn't expect anything different from a guy who thinks that PvP is the best matchup in the game. The best mirror, yeah I like your arguments by the way. I don't think you've ever played phoenix styles or you would realize that few things are harder to do and phoenixes are an insanely intricate and intriguing unit. Look, Phoenix as unit(without upgrade) is actually ok, but it still falls into a SC2 category of hard counters that just make for horrible games. It is just quite hard counter to whole Zerg air and Zerg has to tech to Infestors just to be able to counter Phoenixes. So your argument is that you need a certain tech to beat another? Are you trying to tell me that there's a strategic aspect to the game?! the argument is that no matter your air superiority, phoenixes with an upgrade destroy everything without taking any damage (if you have proper control). It's kind of sucky design, yeah.
Meh. Have your corruptors follow them and take the damage, anticipate their moves with your mutas, cut off their route with mutas. Enjoy.
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On July 03 2015 20:58 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2015 20:56 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:52 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:51 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:49 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:47 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:45 lastride wrote:
The design of this unit is just ridiculous lol Are you actually hating on phoenixes? That's just ridiculous. "Let's make the fastest unit in the game be able to shoot while moving, while at the same time give it an upgrade for 7 range, what could possibly go wrong?" Playing phoenix styles also takes great multitasking, good phoenix control (which is very hard), good decisionmaking, etc. Phoenixes are far better designed than 99% of everything else in the game. Nah, they aren't, they are pretty horrible but it's ok, I didn't expect anything different from a guy who thinks that PvP is the best matchup in the game. The best mirror, yeah I like your arguments by the way. I don't think you've ever played phoenix styles or you would realize that few things are harder to do and phoenixes are an insanely intricate and intriguing unit. Look, Phoenix as unit(without upgrade) is actually ok, but it still falls into a SC2 category of hard counters that just make for horrible games. It is just quite hard counter to whole Zerg air and Zerg has to tech to Infestors just to be able to counter Phoenixes. So your argument is that you need certain tech to beat another? Are you trying to tell me that there's a strategic aspect to the game?!
No, I am telling you that hard counters are stupid and that your reading comprehension is worse than Solar's Corruptor control.
On July 03 2015 20:58 mderg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2015 20:56 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:52 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:51 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:49 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:47 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:45 lastride wrote:
The design of this unit is just ridiculous lol Are you actually hating on phoenixes? That's just ridiculous. "Let's make the fastest unit in the game be able to shoot while moving, while at the same time give it an upgrade for 7 range, what could possibly go wrong?" Playing phoenix styles also takes great multitasking, good phoenix control (which is very hard), good decisionmaking, etc. Phoenixes are far better designed than 99% of everything else in the game. Nah, they aren't, they are pretty horrible but it's ok, I didn't expect anything different from a guy who thinks that PvP is the best matchup in the game. The best mirror, yeah I like your arguments by the way. I don't think you've ever played phoenix styles or you would realize that few things are harder to do and phoenixes are an insanely intricate and intriguing unit. Look, Phoenix as unit(without upgrade) is actually ok, but it still falls into a SC2 category of hard counters that just make for horrible games. It is just quite hard counter to whole Zerg air and Zerg has to tech to Infestors just to be able to counter Phoenixes. Phoenixes are a good counter to corruptors, yeah.
If you haven't watched the game, 11 Phoenixes died during the first half of the game while 20 Mutalisks and 20 Corrupters died on Zerg's side. Yeah, when you have range upgraded, they are faster than Corruptors, have more range and shoot while they move. Phoenixes can hit and run the whole time while only thing you can do with Corruptors is a-move and still be kited.
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Austria24420 Posts
On July 03 2015 20:59 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2015 20:58 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:56 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:52 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:51 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:49 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:47 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:45 lastride wrote:
The design of this unit is just ridiculous lol Are you actually hating on phoenixes? That's just ridiculous. "Let's make the fastest unit in the game be able to shoot while moving, while at the same time give it an upgrade for 7 range, what could possibly go wrong?" Playing phoenix styles also takes great multitasking, good phoenix control (which is very hard), good decisionmaking, etc. Phoenixes are far better designed than 99% of everything else in the game. Nah, they aren't, they are pretty horrible but it's ok, I didn't expect anything different from a guy who thinks that PvP is the best matchup in the game. The best mirror, yeah I like your arguments by the way. I don't think you've ever played phoenix styles or you would realize that few things are harder to do and phoenixes are an insanely intricate and intriguing unit. Look, Phoenix as unit(without upgrade) is actually ok, but it still falls into a SC2 category of hard counters that just make for horrible games. It is just quite hard counter to whole Zerg air and Zerg has to tech to Infestors just to be able to counter Phoenixes. So your argument is that you need a certain tech to beat another? Are you trying to tell me that there's a strategic aspect to the game?! the argument is that no matter your air superiority, phoenixes with an upgrade destroy everything without taking any damage (if you have proper control). It's kind of sucky design, yeah.
That "proper" control, say vs muta/corruptor, is so difficult to do though that I have absolutely no issue with that. The same argument can be made about a concussive shell marauder killing an infinite amount of zealots without charge. It's possible, but so hard to do that it's fine.
And no, phoenixes are not the end all counter to zerg air. Muta/corruptor with a good enough corruptor count does beat it, which is why protoss HAS to add in a stalker/archon ground army and zerg transitions to infestors.
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On July 03 2015 21:01 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2015 20:59 Ej_ wrote:On July 03 2015 20:58 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:56 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:52 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:51 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:49 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:47 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:45 lastride wrote:
The design of this unit is just ridiculous lol Are you actually hating on phoenixes? That's just ridiculous. "Let's make the fastest unit in the game be able to shoot while moving, while at the same time give it an upgrade for 7 range, what could possibly go wrong?" Playing phoenix styles also takes great multitasking, good phoenix control (which is very hard), good decisionmaking, etc. Phoenixes are far better designed than 99% of everything else in the game. Nah, they aren't, they are pretty horrible but it's ok, I didn't expect anything different from a guy who thinks that PvP is the best matchup in the game. The best mirror, yeah I like your arguments by the way. I don't think you've ever played phoenix styles or you would realize that few things are harder to do and phoenixes are an insanely intricate and intriguing unit. Look, Phoenix as unit(without upgrade) is actually ok, but it still falls into a SC2 category of hard counters that just make for horrible games. It is just quite hard counter to whole Zerg air and Zerg has to tech to Infestors just to be able to counter Phoenixes. So your argument is that you need a certain tech to beat another? Are you trying to tell me that there's a strategic aspect to the game?! the argument is that no matter your air superiority, phoenixes with an upgrade destroy everything without taking any damage (if you have proper control). It's kind of sucky design, yeah. Meh. Have your corruptors follow them and take the damage, anticipate their moves with your mutas, cut off their route with mutas. Enjoy.
I'm not saying it's imbalanced. I just think it's stupid. Sair/Scourge interaction was much better IMHO.
e: I like phonixes much better in other matchups though. Corsairs were useless outside PvZ lol.
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sOs taking a third and Solar is still on 3 bases and I'm like "isn't Solar isn't supposed to be further ahead than this, or try to do something about sOs's 3rd"
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i don't understand why you guys are talking about balance from a game where solar could have played a lot better by having a 5th, more spores, and not losing 20+ overlords. if he had a better muta/corruptor count he would have been fine.
not to mention that he bled out a bunch of corruptors/mutas for no reason. nothing to do with phoenix unit design.
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Not super impressed by Solar's creep spread today...
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On July 03 2015 21:02 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2015 21:01 OtherWorld wrote:On July 03 2015 20:59 Ej_ wrote:On July 03 2015 20:58 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:56 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:52 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:51 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:49 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:47 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:
[quote]
Are you actually hating on phoenixes? That's just ridiculous. "Let's make the fastest unit in the game be able to shoot while moving, while at the same time give it an upgrade for 7 range, what could possibly go wrong?" Playing phoenix styles also takes great multitasking, good phoenix control (which is very hard), good decisionmaking, etc. Phoenixes are far better designed than 99% of everything else in the game. Nah, they aren't, they are pretty horrible but it's ok, I didn't expect anything different from a guy who thinks that PvP is the best matchup in the game. The best mirror, yeah I like your arguments by the way. I don't think you've ever played phoenix styles or you would realize that few things are harder to do and phoenixes are an insanely intricate and intriguing unit. Look, Phoenix as unit(without upgrade) is actually ok, but it still falls into a SC2 category of hard counters that just make for horrible games. It is just quite hard counter to whole Zerg air and Zerg has to tech to Infestors just to be able to counter Phoenixes. So your argument is that you need a certain tech to beat another? Are you trying to tell me that there's a strategic aspect to the game?! the argument is that no matter your air superiority, phoenixes with an upgrade destroy everything without taking any damage (if you have proper control). It's kind of sucky design, yeah. Meh. Have your corruptors follow them and take the damage, anticipate their moves with your mutas, cut off their route with mutas. Enjoy. I'm not saying it's imbalanced. I just think it's stupid. Sair/Scourge interaction was much better IMHO. e: I like phonixes much better in other matchups though. Corsairs were useless outside PvZ lol.
Fair enough
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On July 03 2015 21:02 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2015 21:01 OtherWorld wrote:On July 03 2015 20:59 Ej_ wrote:On July 03 2015 20:58 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:56 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:52 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:51 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:49 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:47 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:
[quote]
Are you actually hating on phoenixes? That's just ridiculous. "Let's make the fastest unit in the game be able to shoot while moving, while at the same time give it an upgrade for 7 range, what could possibly go wrong?" Playing phoenix styles also takes great multitasking, good phoenix control (which is very hard), good decisionmaking, etc. Phoenixes are far better designed than 99% of everything else in the game. Nah, they aren't, they are pretty horrible but it's ok, I didn't expect anything different from a guy who thinks that PvP is the best matchup in the game. The best mirror, yeah I like your arguments by the way. I don't think you've ever played phoenix styles or you would realize that few things are harder to do and phoenixes are an insanely intricate and intriguing unit. Look, Phoenix as unit(without upgrade) is actually ok, but it still falls into a SC2 category of hard counters that just make for horrible games. It is just quite hard counter to whole Zerg air and Zerg has to tech to Infestors just to be able to counter Phoenixes. So your argument is that you need a certain tech to beat another? Are you trying to tell me that there's a strategic aspect to the game?! the argument is that no matter your air superiority, phoenixes with an upgrade destroy everything without taking any damage (if you have proper control). It's kind of sucky design, yeah. Meh. Have your corruptors follow them and take the damage, anticipate their moves with your mutas, cut off their route with mutas. Enjoy. I'm not saying it's imbalanced. I just think it's stupid. Sair/Scourge interaction was much better IMHO.
It was only better because the Scourge were stupid and noone could really micro them perfectly. "Great" interactions based on unit stupidity are one thing I would really like to keep contained to BW.
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On July 03 2015 21:04 dazed25 wrote:
i don't understand why you guys are talking about balance from a game where solar could have played a lot better by having a 5th, more spores, and not losing 20+ overlords. if he had a better muta/corruptor count he would have been fine.
I'm not talking about balance, I'm fully aware Solar lost that game himself.
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On July 03 2015 21:04 Elentos wrote:
Not super impressed by Solar's creep spread today...
Not super impressed by him at all tbh, and it makes me a bit sad cuz he has the potential to be a top Zerg
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Austria24420 Posts
On July 03 2015 21:01 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2015 20:58 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:56 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:52 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:51 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:49 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:47 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:45 lastride wrote:
The design of this unit is just ridiculous lol Are you actually hating on phoenixes? That's just ridiculous. "Let's make the fastest unit in the game be able to shoot while moving, while at the same time give it an upgrade for 7 range, what could possibly go wrong?" Playing phoenix styles also takes great multitasking, good phoenix control (which is very hard), good decisionmaking, etc. Phoenixes are far better designed than 99% of everything else in the game. Nah, they aren't, they are pretty horrible but it's ok, I didn't expect anything different from a guy who thinks that PvP is the best matchup in the game. The best mirror, yeah I like your arguments by the way. I don't think you've ever played phoenix styles or you would realize that few things are harder to do and phoenixes are an insanely intricate and intriguing unit. Look, Phoenix as unit(without upgrade) is actually ok, but it still falls into a SC2 category of hard counters that just make for horrible games. It is just quite hard counter to whole Zerg air and Zerg has to tech to Infestors just to be able to counter Phoenixes. So your argument is that you need certain tech to beat another? Are you trying to tell me that there's a strategic aspect to the game?! No, I am telling you that hard counters are stupid and that your reading comprehension is worse than Solar's Corruptor control. Show nested quote +On July 03 2015 20:58 mderg wrote:On July 03 2015 20:56 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:52 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:51 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:49 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:47 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:45 lastride wrote:
The design of this unit is just ridiculous lol Are you actually hating on phoenixes? That's just ridiculous. "Let's make the fastest unit in the game be able to shoot while moving, while at the same time give it an upgrade for 7 range, what could possibly go wrong?" Playing phoenix styles also takes great multitasking, good phoenix control (which is very hard), good decisionmaking, etc. Phoenixes are far better designed than 99% of everything else in the game. Nah, they aren't, they are pretty horrible but it's ok, I didn't expect anything different from a guy who thinks that PvP is the best matchup in the game. The best mirror, yeah I like your arguments by the way. I don't think you've ever played phoenix styles or you would realize that few things are harder to do and phoenixes are an insanely intricate and intriguing unit. Look, Phoenix as unit(without upgrade) is actually ok, but it still falls into a SC2 category of hard counters that just make for horrible games. It is just quite hard counter to whole Zerg air and Zerg has to tech to Infestors just to be able to counter Phoenixes. Phoenixes are a good counter to corruptors, yeah. If you haven't watched the game, 11 Phoenixes died during the first half of the game while 20 Mutalisks and 20 Corrupters died on Zerg's side. Yeah, when you have range upgraded, they are faster than Corruptors, have more range and shoot while they move. Phoenixes can hit and run the whole time while only thing you can do with Corruptors is a-move and still be kited.
You still haven't made one reasonable argument. Phoenixes counter mutas quite hard, sure. Why is that a bad thing again? Because you have to transition against phoenix and can't brainlessly mass mutas?
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On July 03 2015 21:05 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2015 21:04 Elentos wrote:
Not super impressed by Solar's creep spread today... Not super impressed by him at all tbh, and it makes me a bit sad cuz he has the potential to be a top Zerg
#Potential
don't hate on someone playing banes vs Protoss
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Why sOs insist on not making colossus and freewin
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On July 03 2015 21:06 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2015 21:05 OtherWorld wrote:On July 03 2015 21:04 Elentos wrote:
Not super impressed by Solar's creep spread today... Not super impressed by him at all tbh, and it makes me a bit sad cuz he has the potential to be a top Zerg #Potential don't hate on someone playing banes vs Protoss
Well it's more than potential, he was top 2 Zerg for some time
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On July 03 2015 21:06 Skynx wrote:
Why sOs insist on not making colossus and freewin
sOs is an entertainer
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On July 03 2015 21:02 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2015 20:59 Ej_ wrote:On July 03 2015 20:58 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:56 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:52 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:51 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:49 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:47 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:45 lastride wrote:
The design of this unit is just ridiculous lol Are you actually hating on phoenixes? That's just ridiculous. "Let's make the fastest unit in the game be able to shoot while moving, while at the same time give it an upgrade for 7 range, what could possibly go wrong?" Playing phoenix styles also takes great multitasking, good phoenix control (which is very hard), good decisionmaking, etc. Phoenixes are far better designed than 99% of everything else in the game. Nah, they aren't, they are pretty horrible but it's ok, I didn't expect anything different from a guy who thinks that PvP is the best matchup in the game. The best mirror, yeah I like your arguments by the way. I don't think you've ever played phoenix styles or you would realize that few things are harder to do and phoenixes are an insanely intricate and intriguing unit. Look, Phoenix as unit(without upgrade) is actually ok, but it still falls into a SC2 category of hard counters that just make for horrible games. It is just quite hard counter to whole Zerg air and Zerg has to tech to Infestors just to be able to counter Phoenixes. So your argument is that you need a certain tech to beat another? Are you trying to tell me that there's a strategic aspect to the game?! the argument is that no matter your air superiority, phoenixes with an upgrade destroy everything without taking any damage (if you have proper control). It's kind of sucky design, yeah. That "proper" control, say vs muta/corruptor, is so difficult to do though that I have absolutely no issue with that. The same argument can be made about a concussive shell marauder killing an infinite amount of zealots without charge. It's possible, but so hard to do that it's fine. And no, phoenixes are not the end all counter to zerg air. Muta/corruptor with a good enough corruptor count does beat it, which is why protoss HAS to add in a stalker/archon ground army and zerg transitions to infestors.
What the actual fuck?
Yeah, the only difference is that Marauders are limited by ground and ground objects and are also limited by stim that chops a lot of their HP, it is pretty much impossible for Marauders to kill "infinite" amount of Zealots, where with Phoenixes you don't even have to move and a-click, just move properly.
It is hard at the start for the Phoenixes when they don't have range upgrade and when you don't have enough of them, but later when you have ~20 Phoenixes? It is piece of cake, Corruptors can't kill catch you and Mutas melt instantly. It is also funny how you think that Phoenixes are tough to micro while on the other hand there is no any micro on the Zerg's side, as he can't do any against faster units with more range than his.
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SInce he has decided to build banelings, he could as well learn to target them to the right things ...
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EPT
