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On October 04 2014 20:34 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 20:26 brickrd wrote:On October 04 2014 20:25 Zealously wrote:On October 04 2014 20:24 brickrd wrote:On October 04 2014 20:23 Zealously wrote:On October 04 2014 20:20 brickrd wrote:On October 04 2014 20:19 Zealously wrote:On October 04 2014 20:18 brickrd wrote:On October 04 2014 20:18 The_Templar wrote:On October 04 2014 20:17 brickrd wrote:
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if you think second place at the highest level of competition is bad or a curse then you just have a stupid mindset When the pressure gets to you, over and over, in the same way, it does have a negative effect on you :\ if you have a poor competitive mindset, sure No, if you lose five finals in a row while being the best player in the world for at least 2 of them, it hurts you no matter what. There is no competitor who wouldn't be hurt by that. nah Do you compete in anything yourself? I feel like there is often a disconnect between people who watch pro players lose in high-stakes situations that think "Well, at least he got there! He should be happy!" and the competitors themselves. Losing is tough, in finals (repeatedly) especially so. if you cant handle losing you have an emotional problem you should fix So you don't, then. making assumptions about my life is not how you debate a point, that's ad hominem but since youre so insistent, yes, i play both video games and real sports competitively It's definitely relevant in this case since you display a lack of understanding of how someone would react to losing in high-stakes situations like GSL finals where they want nothing more to win, and are expected to win.
Just because I find this topic fascinating....
I think you both know what you're talking about but you're also both painting an incomplete picture of a competitive mindset at the highest level of... well, anything. I believe what makes pros great is they are able to feel the very high highs (generally as some form of hope... the obvious example being 'winning a championship'...) at the same time they feel the lows (hey, you could have done this better. You think you'll be a winner doing that?). This allows them to improve faster than others (because they feel more pain), but they also might never actually feel real happiness.(soO). Greater risk (practicing something you can't know for sure you'll be the best at) // Greater Reward (savoring the moment that's lived inside you for months, years...).
To me, there is no question that soO WILL feel these finals more than the others. There's no question he'll ask dark questions of himself. Who wouldn't?
But will the loss hurt him? Different question, no one knows but soO. At this point I could see it realistically going either way.
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On October 04 2014 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 20:56 pure.Wasted wrote:
I wanted "great games" too, but I think people are being unreasonable. Two cheeses in a row is annoying. Three cheeses in a row is terrible. But four is the making of something beautiful. This was a supremely underhanded series from both players, which tested them mentally more than physically.
soO wanted to break Innovation's will, because he'd seen others do it before (SK, Maru). Instead, Innovation pulled his shit together and broke soO.
That's a fantastic finals. soO roach/bane'd on the first two maps because they're terran favored, should have done it on King Sejong too but didn't and lost, then two 2rax, then a decent last game that soO could've won quite easily had he made two spore crawlers.
so what do those spore crawlers do? Tickle the medivac? Help clean up the mines before they go off a second time which they didn't anyways because he was always on top of cleaning them up anyways after they had gone off?
What he needed against those drops was a better reaction time. A Spore would not have done shit. A spore+spine maybe, but then we are getting into a thousand mineral investment...
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Austria24420 Posts
On October 04 2014 21:14 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On October 04 2014 20:56 pure.Wasted wrote:
I wanted "great games" too, but I think people are being unreasonable. Two cheeses in a row is annoying. Three cheeses in a row is terrible. But four is the making of something beautiful. This was a supremely underhanded series from both players, which tested them mentally more than physically.
soO wanted to break Innovation's will, because he'd seen others do it before (SK, Maru). Instead, Innovation pulled his shit together and broke soO.
That's a fantastic finals. soO roach/bane'd on the first two maps because they're terran favored, should have done it on King Sejong too but didn't and lost, then two 2rax, then a decent last game that soO could've won quite easily had he made two spore crawlers. so what do those spore crawlers do? Tickle the medivac? Help clean up the mines before they go off a second time which they didn't anyways because he was always on top of cleaning them up anyways after they had gone off? What he needed against those drops was a better reaction time. A Spore would not have done shit. A spore+spine maybe, but then we are getting into a thousand mineral investment...
They would have detected the mines that spent minutes untouched in his mineral lines and got Innovation over 50 drone kills.
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This has been the first Terran GSL win since...well Mvp lmao.
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On October 04 2014 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 20:56 pure.Wasted wrote:
I wanted "great games" too, but I think people are being unreasonable. Two cheeses in a row is annoying. Three cheeses in a row is terrible. But four is the making of something beautiful. This was a supremely underhanded series from both players, which tested them mentally more than physically.
soO wanted to break Innovation's will, because he'd seen others do it before (SK, Maru). Instead, Innovation pulled his shit together and broke soO.
That's a fantastic finals. soO roach/bane'd on the first two maps because they're terran favored, should have done it on King Sejong too but didn't and lost, then two 2rax, then a decent last game that soO could've won quite easily had he made two spore crawlers.
You can't just write off 2rax for being 2rax. SoO could have had the game on Foxtrot if he wasn't so indecisive about what he wanted to do with his Lings. Innovation's defense at home was FAR from superb.
As for the last game, maybe soO could've won it easily if he'd gotten those spores, but you have to wonder why he didn't get those spores. I can only assume that Innovation was taxing him to his multitasking limit and soO was breaking under the pressure. No other explanation comes to me, considering that soO was safely up a base the entire time.
It's not as though soO stumbled over himself and lost, Innovation was obviously putting on a clinic and any good Zerg could be expected to lose that game without shame.
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On October 04 2014 21:15 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 21:14 Big J wrote:On October 04 2014 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On October 04 2014 20:56 pure.Wasted wrote:
I wanted "great games" too, but I think people are being unreasonable. Two cheeses in a row is annoying. Three cheeses in a row is terrible. But four is the making of something beautiful. This was a supremely underhanded series from both players, which tested them mentally more than physically.
soO wanted to break Innovation's will, because he'd seen others do it before (SK, Maru). Instead, Innovation pulled his shit together and broke soO.
That's a fantastic finals. soO roach/bane'd on the first two maps because they're terran favored, should have done it on King Sejong too but didn't and lost, then two 2rax, then a decent last game that soO could've won quite easily had he made two spore crawlers. so what do those spore crawlers do? Tickle the medivac? Help clean up the mines before they go off a second time which they didn't anyways because he was always on top of cleaning them up anyways after they had gone off? What he needed against those drops was a better reaction time. A Spore would not have done shit. A spore+spine maybe, but then we are getting into a thousand mineral investment... They would have detected the mines that spent minutes untouched in his mineral lines and got Innovation over 50 drone kills.
I don't think the Mines were left unchecked, from memory soO cleaned them after each passing. It's just that Bogus kept redropping them.
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On October 04 2014 21:14 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On October 04 2014 20:56 pure.Wasted wrote:
I wanted "great games" too, but I think people are being unreasonable. Two cheeses in a row is annoying. Three cheeses in a row is terrible. But four is the making of something beautiful. This was a supremely underhanded series from both players, which tested them mentally more than physically.
soO wanted to break Innovation's will, because he'd seen others do it before (SK, Maru). Instead, Innovation pulled his shit together and broke soO.
That's a fantastic finals. soO roach/bane'd on the first two maps because they're terran favored, should have done it on King Sejong too but didn't and lost, then two 2rax, then a decent last game that soO could've won quite easily had he made two spore crawlers. so what do those spore crawlers do? Tickle the medivac? Help clean up the mines before they go off a second time which they didn't anyways because he was always on top of cleaning them up anyways after they had gone off? What he needed against those drops was a better reaction time. A Spore would not have done shit. A spore+spine maybe, but then we are getting into a thousand mineral investment...
if terran is wm dropping at any stage in the game spores are the correct call
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So happy about the results! The best news I could have hoped for this morning! Woo woo!
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On October 04 2014 21:15 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 21:14 Big J wrote:On October 04 2014 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On October 04 2014 20:56 pure.Wasted wrote:
I wanted "great games" too, but I think people are being unreasonable. Two cheeses in a row is annoying. Three cheeses in a row is terrible. But four is the making of something beautiful. This was a supremely underhanded series from both players, which tested them mentally more than physically.
soO wanted to break Innovation's will, because he'd seen others do it before (SK, Maru). Instead, Innovation pulled his shit together and broke soO.
That's a fantastic finals. soO roach/bane'd on the first two maps because they're terran favored, should have done it on King Sejong too but didn't and lost, then two 2rax, then a decent last game that soO could've won quite easily had he made two spore crawlers. so what do those spore crawlers do? Tickle the medivac? Help clean up the mines before they go off a second time which they didn't anyways because he was always on top of cleaning them up anyways after they had gone off? What he needed against those drops was a better reaction time. A Spore would not have done shit. A spore+spine maybe, but then we are getting into a thousand mineral investment... They would have detected the mines that spent minutes untouched in his mineral lines and got Innovation over 50 drone kills.
As far as I have seen Innovation kept on dropping new mines all the time and soO kept on cleaning them up. Though they never showed what happened to the mines that were dropped first.
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Austria24420 Posts
On October 04 2014 21:17 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 21:15 DarkLordOlli wrote:On October 04 2014 21:14 Big J wrote:On October 04 2014 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On October 04 2014 20:56 pure.Wasted wrote:
I wanted "great games" too, but I think people are being unreasonable. Two cheeses in a row is annoying. Three cheeses in a row is terrible. But four is the making of something beautiful. This was a supremely underhanded series from both players, which tested them mentally more than physically.
soO wanted to break Innovation's will, because he'd seen others do it before (SK, Maru). Instead, Innovation pulled his shit together and broke soO.
That's a fantastic finals. soO roach/bane'd on the first two maps because they're terran favored, should have done it on King Sejong too but didn't and lost, then two 2rax, then a decent last game that soO could've won quite easily had he made two spore crawlers. so what do those spore crawlers do? Tickle the medivac? Help clean up the mines before they go off a second time which they didn't anyways because he was always on top of cleaning them up anyways after they had gone off? What he needed against those drops was a better reaction time. A Spore would not have done shit. A spore+spine maybe, but then we are getting into a thousand mineral investment... They would have detected the mines that spent minutes untouched in his mineral lines and got Innovation over 50 drone kills. I don't think the Mines were left unchecked, from memory soO cleaned them after each passing. It's just that Bogus kept redropping them.
I think the three mines in the third never got cleaned up, they were always in the exact same spots whenever they were shown
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On October 04 2014 21:14 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On October 04 2014 20:56 pure.Wasted wrote:
I wanted "great games" too, but I think people are being unreasonable. Two cheeses in a row is annoying. Three cheeses in a row is terrible. But four is the making of something beautiful. This was a supremely underhanded series from both players, which tested them mentally more than physically.
soO wanted to break Innovation's will, because he'd seen others do it before (SK, Maru). Instead, Innovation pulled his shit together and broke soO.
That's a fantastic finals. soO roach/bane'd on the first two maps because they're terran favored, should have done it on King Sejong too but didn't and lost, then two 2rax, then a decent last game that soO could've won quite easily had he made two spore crawlers. so what do those spore crawlers do? Tickle the medivac? Help clean up the mines before they go off a second time which they didn't anyways because he was always on top of cleaning them up anyways after they had gone off? What he needed against those drops was a better reaction time. A Spore would not have done shit. A spore+spine maybe, but then we are getting into a thousand mineral investment...
Spores would have helped a lot with cleaning the mines. I agree his reaction times weren't amazing and he lost a few more drones than he should have, but spores would have made his life a lot easier since he wouldn't even need to move his army to deal with the drops then ; just shift-click with the queen. I think this would definitely have been a worthy investment.
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Inno isn't guaranteed Blizzcon, but Snute is out, right?
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Austria24420 Posts
On October 04 2014 21:22 IntoTheheart wrote:
Inno isn't guaranteed Blizzcon, but Snute is out, right?
Correct!
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On October 04 2014 21:18 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 21:14 Big J wrote:On October 04 2014 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On October 04 2014 20:56 pure.Wasted wrote:
I wanted "great games" too, but I think people are being unreasonable. Two cheeses in a row is annoying. Three cheeses in a row is terrible. But four is the making of something beautiful. This was a supremely underhanded series from both players, which tested them mentally more than physically.
soO wanted to break Innovation's will, because he'd seen others do it before (SK, Maru). Instead, Innovation pulled his shit together and broke soO.
That's a fantastic finals. soO roach/bane'd on the first two maps because they're terran favored, should have done it on King Sejong too but didn't and lost, then two 2rax, then a decent last game that soO could've won quite easily had he made two spore crawlers. so what do those spore crawlers do? Tickle the medivac? Help clean up the mines before they go off a second time which they didn't anyways because he was always on top of cleaning them up anyways after they had gone off? What he needed against those drops was a better reaction time. A Spore would not have done shit. A spore+spine maybe, but then we are getting into a thousand mineral investment... Spores would have helped a lot with cleaning the mines. I agree his reaction times weren't amazing and he lost a few more drones than he should have, but spores would have made his life a lot easier since he wouldn't even need to move his army to deal with the drops then ; just shift-click with the queen. I think this would definitely have been a worthy investment.
reminds me of a game i watched where Tefel lost like 30+ drones and kept remaking them to an oracle well into the midgame and never built spores... spores in mineral lines are just such a solid idea in general unless you know for an absolute fact there wont be any air or cloak attacks
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On October 04 2014 21:24 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2014 21:18 [PkF] Wire wrote:On October 04 2014 21:14 Big J wrote:On October 04 2014 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On October 04 2014 20:56 pure.Wasted wrote:
I wanted "great games" too, but I think people are being unreasonable. Two cheeses in a row is annoying. Three cheeses in a row is terrible. But four is the making of something beautiful. This was a supremely underhanded series from both players, which tested them mentally more than physically.
soO wanted to break Innovation's will, because he'd seen others do it before (SK, Maru). Instead, Innovation pulled his shit together and broke soO.
That's a fantastic finals. soO roach/bane'd on the first two maps because they're terran favored, should have done it on King Sejong too but didn't and lost, then two 2rax, then a decent last game that soO could've won quite easily had he made two spore crawlers. so what do those spore crawlers do? Tickle the medivac? Help clean up the mines before they go off a second time which they didn't anyways because he was always on top of cleaning them up anyways after they had gone off? What he needed against those drops was a better reaction time. A Spore would not have done shit. A spore+spine maybe, but then we are getting into a thousand mineral investment... Spores would have helped a lot with cleaning the mines. I agree his reaction times weren't amazing and he lost a few more drones than he should have, but spores would have made his life a lot easier since he wouldn't even need to move his army to deal with the drops then ; just shift-click with the queen. I think this would definitely have been a worthy investment. reminds me of a game i watched where Tefel lost like 30+ drones and kept remaking them to an oracle well into the midgame and never built spores... spores in mineral lines are just such a solid idea in general unless you know for an absolute fact there wont be any air or cloak attacks
Especially since they're not a heavy investment when you're on 4 bases. I'm pretty sure soO would have had the economic power to overwhelm INno had he put one spore per base after the first drop.
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Italy12246 Posts
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A lot of people seem to not count it as a GSL win since it was technically OSL. Of course it's stupid, but I don't think that was an oversight.
All we can say is that the current line of T korean champions is pretty crazy : Mvp, Maru, INno.
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Austria24420 Posts
We may as well mention Innovation's Season 1 Finals and Bomber's Season 2 Finals while we're at it.
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EPT
