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On February 17 2014 21:44 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 21:42 raga4ka wrote:On February 17 2014 21:36 SC2Toastie wrote:On February 17 2014 21:34 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
Flash likes to throw TvPs -throw-? He lost when he lost 50 supply to 6+Overcharge while sniping a nexus and Parting didn't even have defense in his base -.-. Well that exacly was a throw right there , he also donated some units on his first push on the natural ... You do realise how ridiculous that sounds...
Makes complete sense to me lol
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this is some kind of sick joke......
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On February 17 2014 21:47 Disarmed wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 21:46 TheDwf wrote:On February 17 2014 21:46 Pangpootata wrote:On February 17 2014 21:45 SC2Toastie wrote:On February 17 2014 21:44 opterown wrote:On February 17 2014 21:43 TheDwf wrote:On February 17 2014 21:42 raga4ka wrote:On February 17 2014 21:36 SC2Toastie wrote:On February 17 2014 21:34 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
Flash likes to throw TvPs -throw-? He lost when he lost 50 supply to 6+Overcharge while sniping a nexus and Parting didn't even have defense in his base -.-. Well that exacly was a throw right there , he also donated some units on his first push on the natural ... Donated? He tried to attack, that's all. Nothing was "donated". it was a very poor attack Define -poor-. Parting gor 40 supply of units dropped in his base and has nothing to defend close by. Still came out ahead. Flash's unit positioning was sub-optimal. He clustered his army between buildings, letting a storm catch them nicely. We're talking about the stim push at the natural, not the quad drop. but didn't he have to attack? i mean he had to try and take advantage off the failed oracle, right.?
Yes, I think his 3 rax stim attempt was not bad. Unfortunately, the failed Oracle can still scout it and PartinG prepared accordingly... One sentry + Zealots. But Flash should have won without the quad drop disaster.
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On February 17 2014 21:45 Qwerty85 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 21:44 Ramiz1989 wrote:On February 17 2014 21:42 Qwerty85 wrote:On February 17 2014 21:37 juvenal wrote:On February 17 2014 21:35 Disarmed wrote:
zealots feel just soooo scary in large numbers
gg hots introduced the solution! Silly terrans don't understand. No it is Blizzard who doesn't understand that you can't go for bio, medivacs, ghosts, vikings and hellbats, upgrade all those units etc. + hellbats have bio tag so they would get destroyed by archons and they can't be microed out of storm. Terran has a counter to mass chargelot only in theory but it is not really possible to use them in actual scenarios. You can go for hellbats like ForGG does but then you must skip ghosts. Or go for ghosts but then you can't get hellbats as well. And ghosts are still much more important to have. That is the reason they are trying out Widow Mine buff. Yeah I know but that is again an early-mid game change, a way to maybe contain protoss on 2 bases a bit longer. WM won't work once colossus numbers get high and that is exactly the army protoss will have in the late game.
I agree, its time they did something do terran lategame, bring back carpet EMPs by buffing EMP radius for example.
However what I can gather from David Kims reasoning is that he wants terrans to be desperate to kill protoss in the midgame because it creates games of constant aggression (and infinite frustration for terran players).
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Croatia5536 Posts
On February 17 2014 21:47 Disarmed wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 21:46 TheDwf wrote:On February 17 2014 21:46 Pangpootata wrote:On February 17 2014 21:45 SC2Toastie wrote:On February 17 2014 21:44 opterown wrote:On February 17 2014 21:43 TheDwf wrote:On February 17 2014 21:42 raga4ka wrote:On February 17 2014 21:36 SC2Toastie wrote:On February 17 2014 21:34 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
Flash likes to throw TvPs -throw-? He lost when he lost 50 supply to 6+Overcharge while sniping a nexus and Parting didn't even have defense in his base -.-. Well that exacly was a throw right there , he also donated some units on his first push on the natural ... Donated? He tried to attack, that's all. Nothing was "donated". it was a very poor attack Define -poor-. Parting gor 40 supply of units dropped in his base and has nothing to defend close by. Still came out ahead. Flash's unit positioning was sub-optimal. He clustered his army between buildings, letting a storm catch them nicely. We're talking about the stim push at the natural, not the quad drop. but didn't he have to attack? i mean he had to try and take advantage off the failed oracle, right.?
Yes. But he couldn't. That is exactly what frustrates terran. Compare this to the game where TY's proxy factory failed. He was miles behind. Nothing wrong with that, but same should apply to protoss but it doesn't, even if you rush storm after failed proxy.
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Wish the volume was a tiny bit higher
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On February 17 2014 21:48 Qwerty85 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 21:44 Big J wrote:On February 17 2014 21:41 YyapSsap wrote:
That matchup clearly showed whats wrong with TvP. Gas first oracle against a 15CC, even if defended and Flash has the eco lead survives the timing window to punish the greedy protoss TY PO, and then the ensuring HT vs bio army.. Once your behind as T, its going to be hard to win compared to Protoss. yeah, because you are forced to right click a PO nexus when you see one. Parting got behind and flash gambled on getting an easy win and fell behind from that. That shows nothing that is wrong in TvP. It is wrong in a sense that game opened up in best possible way for Flash, he was way ahead with expansion, the oracle did no damage and he was ahead in army supply with combat shield and stim finished. Still he couldn't punish protoss who was teching to storm at that time. That part was the problem - the inability to do damage against protoss who does a failed proxy and is rushing to storm. What he did later was a mistake by Flash, but you should be able to do damage if the early game plays out the way it did in that game.
He could have gotten a third or fast tech and punish the Protoss with that. Not everything works against anything, and fast pushing does not punish a 2base Protoss most of the time. Even more since YyapSsap put it like "whats wrong with TvP", I'd rather say that's one thing that is "right with TvP". You can't just emphasize on a small lead with a kill guaranteed timing as Terran.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
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This style of casting really annoys me. They only bother to actually talk about the game when a fight happens. There is plenty of crucial things happening but they just talk about coffee?
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
this is how you take out a nexus lol
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On February 17 2014 21:48 Pangpootata wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 21:46 TheDwf wrote:On February 17 2014 21:46 Pangpootata wrote:On February 17 2014 21:45 SC2Toastie wrote:On February 17 2014 21:44 opterown wrote:On February 17 2014 21:43 TheDwf wrote:On February 17 2014 21:42 raga4ka wrote:On February 17 2014 21:36 SC2Toastie wrote:On February 17 2014 21:34 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
Flash likes to throw TvPs -throw-? He lost when he lost 50 supply to 6+Overcharge while sniping a nexus and Parting didn't even have defense in his base -.-. Well that exacly was a throw right there , he also donated some units on his first push on the natural ... Donated? He tried to attack, that's all. Nothing was "donated". it was a very poor attack Define -poor-. Parting gor 40 supply of units dropped in his base and has nothing to defend close by. Still came out ahead. Flash's unit positioning was sub-optimal. He clustered his army between buildings, letting a storm catch them nicely. We're talking about the stim push at the natural, not the quad drop. Oh, sorry. That one was a slightly bad trade because zealots were out and he didn't have medivacs to kite them. Anyway Flash did pull back in the end to avoid severely overextending. It was still not a very good decision though
That is the problem terrans are complaining about. Flash deflects proxy oracles and yet, he cannot go across the map to trade efficiently because of PO. That is a risk/reward issue. If terrans go mass hellions in TvZ and get deflected, zergs will just ram roaches into the natural.
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On February 17 2014 21:48 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 21:46 Yello wrote:On February 17 2014 21:42 opterown wrote:On February 17 2014 21:41 YyapSsap wrote:
That matchup clearly showed whats wrong with TvP. Gas first oracle against a 15CC, even if defended and Flash has the eco lead survives the timing window to punish the greedy protoss TY PO, and then the ensuring HT vs bio army.. Once your behind as T, its going to be hard to win compared to Protoss. flash should have had that except that he threw 4 medivacs and didn't even get the nexus until he threw two more at it Stop arguing. Don't try to be reasonable. You should realize by now that it's not helping. It's like the bl-infestor era, we have to endure the balance whine, focus on the cool things and wait until it's over. Too many people already got their mind on P op and see it in every single game (even if the Terran made huge mistakes) and sadly nothing you say will change their minds Wow. Hahahah. Apparantly going for cheese without A SINGLE KILL is fine, as well as leaving your main completely undefended against 40 supply of units. Indeed, no mistakes from Parting!
That's exactly what I meant...
I didn't say that Parting made no mistakes. Your answer is exactly what I was talking about. You took only that single thing out of my post to complain some more about Protoss, because that's the only thing you see
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Croatia5536 Posts
On February 17 2014 21:52 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 21:48 Qwerty85 wrote:On February 17 2014 21:44 Big J wrote:On February 17 2014 21:41 YyapSsap wrote:
That matchup clearly showed whats wrong with TvP. Gas first oracle against a 15CC, even if defended and Flash has the eco lead survives the timing window to punish the greedy protoss TY PO, and then the ensuring HT vs bio army.. Once your behind as T, its going to be hard to win compared to Protoss. yeah, because you are forced to right click a PO nexus when you see one. Parting got behind and flash gambled on getting an easy win and fell behind from that. That shows nothing that is wrong in TvP. It is wrong in a sense that game opened up in best possible way for Flash, he was way ahead with expansion, the oracle did no damage and he was ahead in army supply with combat shield and stim finished. Still he couldn't punish protoss who was teching to storm at that time. That part was the problem - the inability to do damage against protoss who does a failed proxy and is rushing to storm. What he did later was a mistake by Flash, but you should be able to do damage if the early game plays out the way it did in that game. He could have gotten a third or fast tech and punish the Protoss with that. Not everything works against anything, and fast pushing does not punish a 2base Protoss most of the time. Even more since YyapSsap put it like "whats wrong with TvP", I'd rather say that's one thing that is "right with TvP". You can't just emphasize on a small lead with a kill guaranteed timing as Terran.
He wouldn't punish protoss in any way if he did that because protoss can and always does get a later third and Parting already had storm out. At best they would be even. And we are not talking about fast push not doing nothing to a 2 base turtle protoss, we are talking about fast push not doing anything to protoss who failed with his proxy and played greedy in a sense he rushed to storm after that.
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On February 17 2014 21:52 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 21:48 Qwerty85 wrote:On February 17 2014 21:44 Big J wrote:On February 17 2014 21:41 YyapSsap wrote:
That matchup clearly showed whats wrong with TvP. Gas first oracle against a 15CC, even if defended and Flash has the eco lead survives the timing window to punish the greedy protoss TY PO, and then the ensuring HT vs bio army.. Once your behind as T, its going to be hard to win compared to Protoss. yeah, because you are forced to right click a PO nexus when you see one. Parting got behind and flash gambled on getting an easy win and fell behind from that. That shows nothing that is wrong in TvP. It is wrong in a sense that game opened up in best possible way for Flash, he was way ahead with expansion, the oracle did no damage and he was ahead in army supply with combat shield and stim finished. Still he couldn't punish protoss who was teching to storm at that time. That part was the problem - the inability to do damage against protoss who does a failed proxy and is rushing to storm. What he did later was a mistake by Flash, but you should be able to do damage if the early game plays out the way it did in that game. He could have gotten a third or fast tech and punish the Protoss with that. Not everything works against anything, and fast pushing does not punish a 2base Protoss most of the time. Even more since YyapSsap put it like "whats wrong with TvP", I'd rather say that's one thing that is "right with TvP". You can't just emphasize on a small lead with a kill guaranteed timing as Terran.
#donttalkbalancekids
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On February 17 2014 21:53 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 21:48 Pangpootata wrote:On February 17 2014 21:46 TheDwf wrote:On February 17 2014 21:46 Pangpootata wrote:On February 17 2014 21:45 SC2Toastie wrote:On February 17 2014 21:44 opterown wrote:On February 17 2014 21:43 TheDwf wrote:On February 17 2014 21:42 raga4ka wrote:On February 17 2014 21:36 SC2Toastie wrote:On February 17 2014 21:34 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
Flash likes to throw TvPs -throw-? He lost when he lost 50 supply to 6+Overcharge while sniping a nexus and Parting didn't even have defense in his base -.-. Well that exacly was a throw right there , he also donated some units on his first push on the natural ... Donated? He tried to attack, that's all. Nothing was "donated". it was a very poor attack Define -poor-. Parting gor 40 supply of units dropped in his base and has nothing to defend close by. Still came out ahead. Flash's unit positioning was sub-optimal. He clustered his army between buildings, letting a storm catch them nicely. We're talking about the stim push at the natural, not the quad drop. Oh, sorry. That one was a slightly bad trade because zealots were out and he didn't have medivacs to kite them. Anyway Flash did pull back in the end to avoid severely overextending. It was still not a very good decision though That is the problem terrans are complaining about. Flash deflects proxy oracles and yet, he cannot go across the map to trade efficiently because of PO. That is a risk/reward issue. If terrans go mass hellions in TvZ and get deflected, zergs will just ram roaches into the natural.
Blizzard is already experimenting with nerfing photon overcharge. We'll have to see how much that helps.
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
Poll: Recommend Terran vs. Protoss Game 4?★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year (2) 18% ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1) 9% ★★★ - Good game (2) 18% ★★ - Only if you have nothing better to do (6) 55% ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0) 0% 11 total votes Your vote: Recommend Terran vs. Protoss Game 4? (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year
(Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★ - Good game
(Vote): ★★ - Only if you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
Poll: Recommend Terran vs. Protoss Game 5?★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year (1) 17% ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0) 0% ★★★ - Good game (2) 33% ★★ - Only if you have nothing better to do (2) 33% ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1) 17% 6 total votes Your vote: Recommend Terran vs. Protoss Game 5? (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year
(Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★ - Good game
(Vote): ★★ - Only if you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
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EPT
