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[SPL] Round 1 Race Wars: TvP & TvZ - Page 37

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 35 36 37 38 39 43 Next All
liberate71
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia10252 Posts
February 17 2014 12:48 GMT
#721
On February 17 2014 21:44 SC2Toastie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2014 21:42 raga4ka wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:36 SC2Toastie wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:34 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
Flash likes to throw TvPs

-throw-?

He lost when he lost 50 supply to 6+Overcharge while sniping a nexus and Parting didn't even have defense in his base -.-.


Well that exacly was a throw right there , he also donated some units on his first push on the natural ...

You do realise how ridiculous that sounds...


Makes complete sense to me lol
Minelord Stimfestor, also known as karma.
Tchado
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Jordan1831 Posts
February 17 2014 12:49 GMT
#722
this is some kind of sick joke......
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
February 17 2014 12:49 GMT
#723
On February 17 2014 21:47 Disarmed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2014 21:46 TheDwf wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:46 Pangpootata wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:45 SC2Toastie wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:44 opterown wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:43 TheDwf wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:42 raga4ka wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:36 SC2Toastie wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:34 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
Flash likes to throw TvPs

-throw-?

He lost when he lost 50 supply to 6+Overcharge while sniping a nexus and Parting didn't even have defense in his base -.-.


Well that exacly was a throw right there , he also donated some units on his first push on the natural ...

Donated? He tried to attack, that's all. Nothing was "donated".

it was a very poor attack

Define -poor-.

Parting gor 40 supply of units dropped in his base and has nothing to defend close by. Still came out ahead.

Flash's unit positioning was sub-optimal. He clustered his army between buildings, letting a storm catch them nicely.

We're talking about the stim push at the natural, not the quad drop.



but didn't he have to attack? i mean he had to try and take advantage off the failed oracle, right.?

Yes, I think his 3 rax stim attempt was not bad. Unfortunately, the failed Oracle can still scout it and PartinG prepared accordingly... One sentry + Zealots. But Flash should have won without the quad drop disaster.
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
February 17 2014 12:50 GMT
#724
On February 17 2014 21:45 Qwerty85 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2014 21:44 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:42 Qwerty85 wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:37 juvenal wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:35 Disarmed wrote:
zealots feel just soooo scary in large numbers
gg

hots introduced the solution! Silly terrans don't understand.


No it is Blizzard who doesn't understand that you can't go for bio, medivacs, ghosts, vikings and hellbats, upgrade all those units etc. + hellbats have bio tag so they would get destroyed by archons and they can't be microed out of storm.

Terran has a counter to mass chargelot only in theory but it is not really possible to use them in actual scenarios.

You can go for hellbats like ForGG does but then you must skip ghosts. Or go for ghosts but then you can't get hellbats as well. And ghosts are still much more important to have.

That is the reason they are trying out Widow Mine buff.


Yeah I know but that is again an early-mid game change, a way to maybe contain protoss on 2 bases a bit longer.
WM won't work once colossus numbers get high and that is exactly the army protoss will have in the late game.

I agree, its time they did something do terran lategame, bring back carpet EMPs by buffing EMP radius for example.

However what I can gather from David Kims reasoning is that he wants terrans to be desperate to kill protoss in the midgame because it creates games of constant aggression (and infinite frustration for terran players).
Qwerty85
Profile Joined June 2012
Croatia5536 Posts
February 17 2014 12:50 GMT
#725
On February 17 2014 21:47 Disarmed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2014 21:46 TheDwf wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:46 Pangpootata wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:45 SC2Toastie wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:44 opterown wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:43 TheDwf wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:42 raga4ka wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:36 SC2Toastie wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:34 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
Flash likes to throw TvPs

-throw-?

He lost when he lost 50 supply to 6+Overcharge while sniping a nexus and Parting didn't even have defense in his base -.-.


Well that exacly was a throw right there , he also donated some units on his first push on the natural ...

Donated? He tried to attack, that's all. Nothing was "donated".

it was a very poor attack

Define -poor-.

Parting gor 40 supply of units dropped in his base and has nothing to defend close by. Still came out ahead.

Flash's unit positioning was sub-optimal. He clustered his army between buildings, letting a storm catch them nicely.

We're talking about the stim push at the natural, not the quad drop.



but didn't he have to attack? i mean he had to try and take advantage off the failed oracle, right.?


Yes. But he couldn't. That is exactly what frustrates terran. Compare this to the game where TY's proxy factory failed. He was miles behind. Nothing wrong with that, but same should apply to protoss but it doesn't, even if you rush storm after failed proxy.
Strela
Profile Joined October 2011
Netherlands1896 Posts
February 17 2014 12:51 GMT
#726
Wish the volume was a tiny bit higher
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
February 17 2014 12:52 GMT
#727
On February 17 2014 21:48 Qwerty85 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2014 21:44 Big J wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:41 YyapSsap wrote:
That matchup clearly showed whats wrong with TvP. Gas first oracle against a 15CC, even if defended and Flash has the eco lead survives the timing window to punish the greedy protoss TY PO, and then the ensuring HT vs bio army.. Once your behind as T, its going to be hard to win compared to Protoss.


yeah, because you are forced to right click a PO nexus when you see one.
Parting got behind and flash gambled on getting an easy win and fell behind from that. That shows nothing that is wrong in TvP.


It is wrong in a sense that game opened up in best possible way for Flash, he was way ahead with expansion, the oracle did no damage and he was ahead in army supply with combat shield and stim finished. Still he couldn't punish protoss who was teching to storm at that time.

That part was the problem - the inability to do damage against protoss who does a failed proxy and is rushing to storm. What he did later was a mistake by Flash, but you should be able to do damage if the early game plays out the way it did in that game.


He could have gotten a third or fast tech and punish the Protoss with that. Not everything works against anything, and fast pushing does not punish a 2base Protoss most of the time. Even more since YyapSsap put it like "whats wrong with TvP", I'd rather say that's one thing that is "right with TvP". You can't just emphasize on a small lead with a kill guaranteed timing as Terran.
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
February 17 2014 12:52 GMT
#728
oh yeah MARU
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
Lorning *
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgica34432 Posts
February 17 2014 12:52 GMT
#729
wooooo gogo Maru
Community News
TL+ Member
Exarl25
Profile Joined November 2010
1887 Posts
February 17 2014 12:53 GMT
#730
This style of casting really annoys me. They only bother to actually talk about the game when a fight happens. There is plenty of crucial things happening but they just talk about coffee?
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
February 17 2014 12:53 GMT
#731
this is how you take out a nexus lol
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
vthree
Profile Joined November 2011
Hong Kong8039 Posts
February 17 2014 12:53 GMT
#732
On February 17 2014 21:48 Pangpootata wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2014 21:46 TheDwf wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:46 Pangpootata wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:45 SC2Toastie wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:44 opterown wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:43 TheDwf wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:42 raga4ka wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:36 SC2Toastie wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:34 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
Flash likes to throw TvPs

-throw-?

He lost when he lost 50 supply to 6+Overcharge while sniping a nexus and Parting didn't even have defense in his base -.-.


Well that exacly was a throw right there , he also donated some units on his first push on the natural ...

Donated? He tried to attack, that's all. Nothing was "donated".

it was a very poor attack

Define -poor-.

Parting gor 40 supply of units dropped in his base and has nothing to defend close by. Still came out ahead.

Flash's unit positioning was sub-optimal. He clustered his army between buildings, letting a storm catch them nicely.

We're talking about the stim push at the natural, not the quad drop.

Oh, sorry. That one was a slightly bad trade because zealots were out and he didn't have medivacs to kite them. Anyway Flash did pull back in the end to avoid severely overextending. It was still not a very good decision though


That is the problem terrans are complaining about. Flash deflects proxy oracles and yet, he cannot go across the map to trade efficiently because of PO. That is a risk/reward issue. If terrans go mass hellions in TvZ and get deflected, zergs will just ram roaches into the natural.
imrusty269
Profile Joined January 2014
United States1404 Posts
February 17 2014 12:54 GMT
#733
Storm DONE!
Bbyong | MMA | Polt | Dream | Maru | Mvp
Yello
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany7411 Posts
February 17 2014 12:54 GMT
#734
On February 17 2014 21:48 SC2Toastie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2014 21:46 Yello wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:42 opterown wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:41 YyapSsap wrote:
That matchup clearly showed whats wrong with TvP. Gas first oracle against a 15CC, even if defended and Flash has the eco lead survives the timing window to punish the greedy protoss TY PO, and then the ensuring HT vs bio army.. Once your behind as T, its going to be hard to win compared to Protoss.

flash should have had that except that he threw 4 medivacs and didn't even get the nexus until he threw two more at it


Stop arguing. Don't try to be reasonable. You should realize by now that it's not helping. It's like the bl-infestor era, we have to endure the balance whine, focus on the cool things and wait until it's over. Too many people already got their mind on P op and see it in every single game (even if the Terran made huge mistakes) and sadly nothing you say will change their minds

Wow. Hahahah.

Apparantly going for cheese without A SINGLE KILL is fine, as well as leaving your main completely undefended against 40 supply of units. Indeed, no mistakes from Parting!


That's exactly what I meant...
I didn't say that Parting made no mistakes. Your answer is exactly what I was talking about. You took only that single thing out of my post to complain some more about Protoss, because that's the only thing you see
Just ahead of time, know your addiction's not a crime. It's just a smaller part of who you want to become in the end.
Qwerty85
Profile Joined June 2012
Croatia5536 Posts
February 17 2014 12:54 GMT
#735
On February 17 2014 21:52 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2014 21:48 Qwerty85 wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:44 Big J wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:41 YyapSsap wrote:
That matchup clearly showed whats wrong with TvP. Gas first oracle against a 15CC, even if defended and Flash has the eco lead survives the timing window to punish the greedy protoss TY PO, and then the ensuring HT vs bio army.. Once your behind as T, its going to be hard to win compared to Protoss.


yeah, because you are forced to right click a PO nexus when you see one.
Parting got behind and flash gambled on getting an easy win and fell behind from that. That shows nothing that is wrong in TvP.


It is wrong in a sense that game opened up in best possible way for Flash, he was way ahead with expansion, the oracle did no damage and he was ahead in army supply with combat shield and stim finished. Still he couldn't punish protoss who was teching to storm at that time.

That part was the problem - the inability to do damage against protoss who does a failed proxy and is rushing to storm. What he did later was a mistake by Flash, but you should be able to do damage if the early game plays out the way it did in that game.


He could have gotten a third or fast tech and punish the Protoss with that. Not everything works against anything, and fast pushing does not punish a 2base Protoss most of the time. Even more since YyapSsap put it like "whats wrong with TvP", I'd rather say that's one thing that is "right with TvP". You can't just emphasize on a small lead with a kill guaranteed timing as Terran.


He wouldn't punish protoss in any way if he did that because protoss can and always does get a later third and Parting already had storm out. At best they would be even. And we are not talking about fast push not doing nothing to a 2 base turtle protoss, we are talking about fast push not doing anything to protoss who failed with his proxy and played greedy in a sense he rushed to storm after that.
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-17 13:03:04
February 17 2014 12:55 GMT
#736
On February 17 2014 21:52 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2014 21:48 Qwerty85 wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:44 Big J wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:41 YyapSsap wrote:
That matchup clearly showed whats wrong with TvP. Gas first oracle against a 15CC, even if defended and Flash has the eco lead survives the timing window to punish the greedy protoss TY PO, and then the ensuring HT vs bio army.. Once your behind as T, its going to be hard to win compared to Protoss.


yeah, because you are forced to right click a PO nexus when you see one.
Parting got behind and flash gambled on getting an easy win and fell behind from that. That shows nothing that is wrong in TvP.


It is wrong in a sense that game opened up in best possible way for Flash, he was way ahead with expansion, the oracle did no damage and he was ahead in army supply with combat shield and stim finished. Still he couldn't punish protoss who was teching to storm at that time.

That part was the problem - the inability to do damage against protoss who does a failed proxy and is rushing to storm. What he did later was a mistake by Flash, but you should be able to do damage if the early game plays out the way it did in that game.


He could have gotten a third or fast tech and punish the Protoss with that. Not everything works against anything, and fast pushing does not punish a 2base Protoss most of the time. Even more since YyapSsap put it like "whats wrong with TvP", I'd rather say that's one thing that is "right with TvP". You can't just emphasize on a small lead with a kill guaranteed timing as Terran.

#donttalkbalancekids
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
Pangpootata
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
1838 Posts
February 17 2014 12:55 GMT
#737
On February 17 2014 21:53 vthree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2014 21:48 Pangpootata wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:46 TheDwf wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:46 Pangpootata wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:45 SC2Toastie wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:44 opterown wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:43 TheDwf wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:42 raga4ka wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:36 SC2Toastie wrote:
On February 17 2014 21:34 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
Flash likes to throw TvPs

-throw-?

He lost when he lost 50 supply to 6+Overcharge while sniping a nexus and Parting didn't even have defense in his base -.-.


Well that exacly was a throw right there , he also donated some units on his first push on the natural ...

Donated? He tried to attack, that's all. Nothing was "donated".

it was a very poor attack

Define -poor-.

Parting gor 40 supply of units dropped in his base and has nothing to defend close by. Still came out ahead.

Flash's unit positioning was sub-optimal. He clustered his army between buildings, letting a storm catch them nicely.

We're talking about the stim push at the natural, not the quad drop.

Oh, sorry. That one was a slightly bad trade because zealots were out and he didn't have medivacs to kite them. Anyway Flash did pull back in the end to avoid severely overextending. It was still not a very good decision though


That is the problem terrans are complaining about. Flash deflects proxy oracles and yet, he cannot go across the map to trade efficiently because of PO. That is a risk/reward issue. If terrans go mass hellions in TvZ and get deflected, zergs will just ram roaches into the natural.

Blizzard is already experimenting with nerfing photon overcharge. We'll have to see how much that helps.
Fjodorov
Profile Joined December 2011
5007 Posts
February 17 2014 12:55 GMT
#738
Do a Polt, fly away!
Lorning *
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgica34432 Posts
February 17 2014 12:56 GMT
#739
...........
Community News
TL+ Member
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
February 17 2014 12:56 GMT
#740
Poll: Recommend Terran vs. Protoss Game 4?

★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year (2)
 
18%

★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1)
 
9%

★★★ - Good game (2)
 
18%

★★ - Only if you have nothing better to do (6)
 
55%

★ - Do not see this game no matter what (0)
 
0%

11 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Terran vs. Protoss Game 4?

(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year
(Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★ - Good game
(Vote): ★★ - Only if you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what


Poll: Recommend Terran vs. Protoss Game 5?

★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year (1)
 
17%

★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
 
0%

★★★ - Good game (2)
 
33%

★★ - Only if you have nothing better to do (2)
 
33%

★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1)
 
17%

6 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Terran vs. Protoss Game 5?

(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year
(Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★ - Good game
(Vote): ★★ - Only if you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what

ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
Prev 1 35 36 37 38 39 43 Next All
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