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On February 17 2014 21:41 YyapSsap wrote:
That matchup clearly showed whats wrong with TvP. Gas first oracle against a 15CC, even if defended and Flash has the eco lead survives the timing window to punish the greedy protoss TY PO, and then the ensuring HT vs bio army.. Once your behind as T, its going to be hard to win compared to Protoss.
yeah, because you are forced to right click a PO nexus when you see one.
Parting got behind and flash gambled on getting an easy win and fell behind from that. That shows nothing that is wrong in TvP.
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On February 17 2014 21:44 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 21:43 TheDwf wrote:On February 17 2014 21:42 raga4ka wrote:On February 17 2014 21:36 SC2Toastie wrote:On February 17 2014 21:34 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
Flash likes to throw TvPs -throw-? He lost when he lost 50 supply to 6+Overcharge while sniping a nexus and Parting didn't even have defense in his base -.-. Well that exacly was a throw right there , he also donated some units on his first push on the natural ... Donated? He tried to attack, that's all. Nothing was "donated". it was a very poor attack
How so?
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On February 17 2014 21:44 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 21:43 TheDwf wrote:On February 17 2014 21:42 raga4ka wrote:On February 17 2014 21:36 SC2Toastie wrote:On February 17 2014 21:34 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
Flash likes to throw TvPs -throw-? He lost when he lost 50 supply to 6+Overcharge while sniping a nexus and Parting didn't even have defense in his base -.-. Well that exacly was a throw right there , he also donated some units on his first push on the natural ... Donated? He tried to attack, that's all. Nothing was "donated". it was a very poor attack
Define -poor-.
Parting gor 40 supply of units dropped in his base and has nothing to defend close by. Still came out ahead.
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Croatia5536 Posts
On February 17 2014 21:44 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 21:42 Qwerty85 wrote:On February 17 2014 21:37 juvenal wrote:On February 17 2014 21:35 Disarmed wrote:
zealots feel just soooo scary in large numbers
gg hots introduced the solution! Silly terrans don't understand. No it is Blizzard who doesn't understand that you can't go for bio, medivacs, ghosts, vikings and hellbats, upgrade all those units etc. + hellbats have bio tag so they would get destroyed by archons and they can't be microed out of storm. Terran has a counter to mass chargelot only in theory but it is not really possible to use them in actual scenarios. You can go for hellbats like ForGG does but then you must skip ghosts. Or go for ghosts but then you can't get hellbats as well. And ghosts are still much more important to have. That is the reason they are trying out Widow Mine buff.
Yeah I know but that is again an early-mid game change, a way to maybe contain protoss on 2 bases a bit longer.
WM won't work once colossus numbers get high and that is exactly the army protoss will have in the late game.
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On February 17 2014 21:45 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 21:44 opterown wrote:On February 17 2014 21:43 TheDwf wrote:On February 17 2014 21:42 raga4ka wrote:On February 17 2014 21:36 SC2Toastie wrote:On February 17 2014 21:34 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
Flash likes to throw TvPs -throw-? He lost when he lost 50 supply to 6+Overcharge while sniping a nexus and Parting didn't even have defense in his base -.-. Well that exacly was a throw right there , he also donated some units on his first push on the natural ... Donated? He tried to attack, that's all. Nothing was "donated". it was a very poor attack Define -poor-. Parting gor 40 supply of units dropped in his base and has nothing to defend close by. Still came out ahead.
Flash's unit positioning was sub-optimal. He clustered his army between buildings, letting a storm catch them nicely.
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On February 17 2014 21:42 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 21:41 YyapSsap wrote:
That matchup clearly showed whats wrong with TvP. Gas first oracle against a 15CC, even if defended and Flash has the eco lead survives the timing window to punish the greedy protoss TY PO, and then the ensuring HT vs bio army.. Once your behind as T, its going to be hard to win compared to Protoss. flash should have had that except that he threw 4 medivacs and didn't even get the nexus until he threw two more at it
Parting got storms out already. I'd be very hesitant to declare that terran has a lead once storms are out.
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Nowadays your attack is 'poor' if your opponent responds at all, like Parting? Even with something as silly as 3 fucking templar MOVING FROM THIRD TO MAIN and a simple click of overcharge? vs 40 supply MMM?
Maru beat Creator by dropping marines and Creator typing in chat.
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On February 17 2014 21:45 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 21:44 opterown wrote:On February 17 2014 21:43 TheDwf wrote:On February 17 2014 21:42 raga4ka wrote:On February 17 2014 21:36 SC2Toastie wrote:On February 17 2014 21:34 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
Flash likes to throw TvPs -throw-? He lost when he lost 50 supply to 6+Overcharge while sniping a nexus and Parting didn't even have defense in his base -.-. Well that exacly was a throw right there , he also donated some units on his first push on the natural ... Donated? He tried to attack, that's all. Nothing was "donated". it was a very poor attack Define -poor-. Parting gor 40 supply of units dropped in his base and has nothing to defend close by. Still came out ahead.
You are making Flash sound like a gold player 
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On February 17 2014 21:44 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 21:43 TheDwf wrote:On February 17 2014 21:42 raga4ka wrote:On February 17 2014 21:36 SC2Toastie wrote:On February 17 2014 21:34 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
Flash likes to throw TvPs -throw-? He lost when he lost 50 supply to 6+Overcharge while sniping a nexus and Parting didn't even have defense in his base -.-. Well that exacly was a throw right there , he also donated some units on his first push on the natural ... Donated? He tried to attack, that's all. Nothing was "donated". it was a very poor attack
the captain hindsight strikes again
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On February 17 2014 21:46 Pangpootata wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 21:45 SC2Toastie wrote:On February 17 2014 21:44 opterown wrote:On February 17 2014 21:43 TheDwf wrote:On February 17 2014 21:42 raga4ka wrote:On February 17 2014 21:36 SC2Toastie wrote:On February 17 2014 21:34 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
Flash likes to throw TvPs -throw-? He lost when he lost 50 supply to 6+Overcharge while sniping a nexus and Parting didn't even have defense in his base -.-. Well that exacly was a throw right there , he also donated some units on his first push on the natural ... Donated? He tried to attack, that's all. Nothing was "donated". it was a very poor attack Define -poor-. Parting gor 40 supply of units dropped in his base and has nothing to defend close by. Still came out ahead. Flash's unit positioning was sub-optimal. He clustered his army between buildings, letting a storm catch them nicely.
We're talking about the stim push at the natural, not the quad drop.
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On February 17 2014 21:42 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 21:41 YyapSsap wrote:
That matchup clearly showed whats wrong with TvP. Gas first oracle against a 15CC, even if defended and Flash has the eco lead survives the timing window to punish the greedy protoss TY PO, and then the ensuring HT vs bio army.. Once your behind as T, its going to be hard to win compared to Protoss. flash should have had that except that he threw 4 medivacs and didn't even get the nexus until he threw two more at it
Stop arguing. Don't try to be reasonable. You should realize by now that it's not helping. It's like the bl-infestor era, we have to endure the balance whine, focus on the cool things and wait until it's over. Too many people already got their mind on P op and see it in every single game (even if the Terran made huge mistakes) and sadly nothing you say will change their minds
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MKP is boasting how he made what Maru is today by being his mentor haha making sure all the skills were transferred while making sure his weaknesses were covered with Maru.
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I'm not gonna waste my time with the numerous Protoss forum knights. there's so many because they don't need to practice to maintain a good ladderrank trollol.
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On February 17 2014 21:46 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 21:46 Pangpootata wrote:On February 17 2014 21:45 SC2Toastie wrote:On February 17 2014 21:44 opterown wrote:On February 17 2014 21:43 TheDwf wrote:On February 17 2014 21:42 raga4ka wrote:On February 17 2014 21:36 SC2Toastie wrote:On February 17 2014 21:34 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
Flash likes to throw TvPs -throw-? He lost when he lost 50 supply to 6+Overcharge while sniping a nexus and Parting didn't even have defense in his base -.-. Well that exacly was a throw right there , he also donated some units on his first push on the natural ... Donated? He tried to attack, that's all. Nothing was "donated". it was a very poor attack Define -poor-. Parting gor 40 supply of units dropped in his base and has nothing to defend close by. Still came out ahead. Flash's unit positioning was sub-optimal. He clustered his army between buildings, letting a storm catch them nicely. We're talking about the stim push at the natural, not the quad drop.
but didn't he have to attack? i mean he had to try and take advantage off the failed oracle, right.?
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Croatia5536 Posts
On February 17 2014 21:44 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 21:41 YyapSsap wrote:
That matchup clearly showed whats wrong with TvP. Gas first oracle against a 15CC, even if defended and Flash has the eco lead survives the timing window to punish the greedy protoss TY PO, and then the ensuring HT vs bio army.. Once your behind as T, its going to be hard to win compared to Protoss. yeah, because you are forced to right click a PO nexus when you see one. Parting got behind and flash gambled on getting an easy win and fell behind from that. That shows nothing that is wrong in TvP.
It is wrong in a sense that game opened up in best possible way for Flash, he was way ahead with expansion, the oracle did no damage and he was ahead in army supply with combat shield and stim finished. Still he couldn't punish protoss who was teching to storm at that time.
That part was the problem - the inability to do damage against protoss who does a failed proxy and is rushing to storm. What he did later was a mistake by Flash, but you should be able to do damage if the early game plays out the way it did in that game.
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On February 17 2014 21:46 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 21:46 Pangpootata wrote:On February 17 2014 21:45 SC2Toastie wrote:On February 17 2014 21:44 opterown wrote:On February 17 2014 21:43 TheDwf wrote:On February 17 2014 21:42 raga4ka wrote:On February 17 2014 21:36 SC2Toastie wrote:On February 17 2014 21:34 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
Flash likes to throw TvPs -throw-? He lost when he lost 50 supply to 6+Overcharge while sniping a nexus and Parting didn't even have defense in his base -.-. Well that exacly was a throw right there , he also donated some units on his first push on the natural ... Donated? He tried to attack, that's all. Nothing was "donated". it was a very poor attack Define -poor-. Parting gor 40 supply of units dropped in his base and has nothing to defend close by. Still came out ahead. Flash's unit positioning was sub-optimal. He clustered his army between buildings, letting a storm catch them nicely. We're talking about the stim push at the natural, not the quad drop.
Oh, sorry. That one was a slightly bad trade because zealots were out and he didn't have medivacs to kite them. Anyway Flash did pull back in the end to avoid severely overextending. It was still not a very good decision though
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On February 17 2014 21:45 Qwerty85 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 21:44 Ramiz1989 wrote:On February 17 2014 21:42 Qwerty85 wrote:On February 17 2014 21:37 juvenal wrote:On February 17 2014 21:35 Disarmed wrote:
zealots feel just soooo scary in large numbers
gg hots introduced the solution! Silly terrans don't understand. No it is Blizzard who doesn't understand that you can't go for bio, medivacs, ghosts, vikings and hellbats, upgrade all those units etc. + hellbats have bio tag so they would get destroyed by archons and they can't be microed out of storm. Terran has a counter to mass chargelot only in theory but it is not really possible to use them in actual scenarios. You can go for hellbats like ForGG does but then you must skip ghosts. Or go for ghosts but then you can't get hellbats as well. And ghosts are still much more important to have. That is the reason they are trying out Widow Mine buff. Yeah I know but that is again an early-mid game change, a way to maybe contain protoss on 2 bases a bit longer. WM won't work once colossus numbers get high and that is exactly the army protoss will have in the late game.
I really don't think that is true, because if you attack JUST with Colossi to destroy the mines, there will be Vikings that have the same range. Also, Mines with upgrade burrow in 1 sec, you can just burrow them when the Protoss commits to the attack with massive Zealot army and pull back with the Bio.
I think that it will definitely help against masses of Zealots.
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Haven't seen a Blink build in a while. Nice!
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On February 17 2014 21:46 Yello wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 21:42 opterown wrote:On February 17 2014 21:41 YyapSsap wrote:
That matchup clearly showed whats wrong with TvP. Gas first oracle against a 15CC, even if defended and Flash has the eco lead survives the timing window to punish the greedy protoss TY PO, and then the ensuring HT vs bio army.. Once your behind as T, its going to be hard to win compared to Protoss. flash should have had that except that he threw 4 medivacs and didn't even get the nexus until he threw two more at it Stop arguing. Don't try to be reasonable. You should realize by now that it's not helping. It's like the bl-infestor era, we have to endure the balance whine, focus on the cool things and wait until it's over. Too many people already got their mind on P op and see it in every single game (even if the Terran made huge mistakes) and sadly nothing you say will change their minds
NVM
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EPT
