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Australia18228 Posts
On February 06 2014 22:33 SC2Toastie wrote:
Soulkey Parting 0.0
Is this GSL in a day tournament or what?!
Soulkey PartinG Sora Top4
This is WCG2.0
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On February 06 2014 22:35 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 22:33 Xoronius wrote:On February 06 2014 22:24 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 06 2014 22:19 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:15 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 06 2014 22:12 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote:
So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency. Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself? also this: On February 06 2014 22:11 NovaMB wrote:
ASUS and IEM had a Terran each in the semis (ForGG, jjakji) Edited. And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end. Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here. I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended. The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race. That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events.
So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well?
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4713 Posts
Protoss is doing well now left, right and center, they are winning qualifiers, they are winning tournaments and they are winning online cups too. Not sure there is much arguing to be had against that at this point.
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On February 06 2014 22:27 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 22:24 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 06 2014 22:19 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:15 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 06 2014 22:12 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote:
So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency. Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself? also this: On February 06 2014 22:11 NovaMB wrote:
ASUS and IEM had a Terran each in the semis (ForGG, jjakji) Edited. And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end. Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here. I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended. Because they're good players? I guess Terran was broken too back when MMA and Mvp were winning tournaments... -_- If things really were as broken as you so desperately try to suggest then we would have random Protosses winning instead, people who were completely mediocre beforehand, edging out better players. Instead we have PartinG and Sora, who are fucking good and have been fucking good for a while.
Actually, even if there is imbalance in a specific match up, the top players from each races will still do well, it is just the percentage of players at the top will be shifted to the 'OP' race.
The 1-1-1 era didn't have players like Ensnare/Virus win a GSL either... doesn't mean there is no imbalance... If there is an 'OP' race, the top 6-8 players of that race will likely win.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On February 06 2014 22:36 Destructicon wrote:
Protoss is doing well now left, right and center, they are winning qualifiers, they are winning tournaments and they are winning online cups too. Not sure there is much arguing to be had against that at this point.
However, there aren't a million "new" Protoss players that are winning stuff. It's mostly the same guys - just as when the same Terrans were winning everything in 2011.
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On February 06 2014 22:36 Destructicon wrote:
Protoss is doing well now left, right and center, they are winning qualifiers, they are winning tournaments and they are winning online cups too. Not sure there is much arguing to be had against that at this point.
Not sure why this is so hard for you to properly comprehend. The people who are winning tournaments were already good enough to win in the first place. They've been at that level for a while now. Your personal opinion notwithstanding, statistics (and actually watching their games, past and present) show that players like san and herO[jOin] are really fucking good and have been really fucking good for months if not more. Same goes for PartinG and Sora.
Do you think Terran was strong back when Mvp and MMA were dominating tournaments? No, they were literally the best players in the game and few, if any, were on their level (DongRaeGu).
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On February 06 2014 22:35 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 22:33 Xoronius wrote:On February 06 2014 22:24 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 06 2014 22:19 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:15 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 06 2014 22:12 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote:
So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency. Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself? also this: On February 06 2014 22:11 NovaMB wrote:
ASUS and IEM had a Terran each in the semis (ForGG, jjakji) Edited. And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end. Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here. I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended. The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race. That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events.
MoP is arguing, that players, who are good, should do well in tournaments. Like for example Taeja for the last half year. Like for example Soulkey. Or like for example PartinG and Sora. If the players, that do well in qualifiers, always do bad at tournaments, that would be pretty weird, would´nt it?
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could you guys take that discussion somewhere else please? I mean I'm arguing balance too sometimes but I do it in the skype group with my friends. Or to the mad marine club or the designated balance discussion thread.
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On February 06 2014 22:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 22:35 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 06 2014 22:33 Xoronius wrote:On February 06 2014 22:24 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 06 2014 22:19 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:15 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 06 2014 22:12 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote:
So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency. Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself? also this: On February 06 2014 22:11 NovaMB wrote:
ASUS and IEM had a Terran each in the semis (ForGG, jjakji) Edited. And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end. Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here. I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended. The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race. That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events. So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well?
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course.
Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1.
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On February 06 2014 22:38 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 22:27 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:24 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 06 2014 22:19 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:15 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 06 2014 22:12 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote:
So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency. Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself? also this: On February 06 2014 22:11 NovaMB wrote:
ASUS and IEM had a Terran each in the semis (ForGG, jjakji) Edited. And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end. Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here. I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended. Because they're good players? I guess Terran was broken too back when MMA and Mvp were winning tournaments... -_- If things really were as broken as you so desperately try to suggest then we would have random Protosses winning instead, people who were completely mediocre beforehand, edging out better players. Instead we have PartinG and Sora, who are fucking good and have been fucking good for a while. Actually, even if there is imbalance in a specific match up, the top players from each races will still do well, it is just the percentage of players at the top will be shifted to the 'OP' race. The 1-1-1 era didn't have players like Ensnare/Virus win a GSL either... doesn't mean there is no imbalance... If there is an 'OP' race, the top 6-8 players of that race will likely win.
I have mixed feelings on the1-1-1 era considering players like Puzzle and HuK stopped the dreaded push dead in its tracks pre-Immortal buff. I still think people way over-reacted instead of practicing and putting their minds to it, and it's Blizzard's fault for patching everything on a whim back then that lead to that defeatist mentality.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On February 06 2014 22:42 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 22:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:35 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 06 2014 22:33 Xoronius wrote:On February 06 2014 22:24 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 06 2014 22:19 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:15 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 06 2014 22:12 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote:
So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency. Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself? also this: On February 06 2014 22:11 NovaMB wrote:
ASUS and IEM had a Terran each in the semis (ForGG, jjakji) Edited. And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end. Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here. I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended. The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race. That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events. So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well? Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course. Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1.
It's fine that you don't agree with Pigbaby, Trust and Paralyze being in the Ro16 - but you really need to read up on Hurricane and Zest.
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4713 Posts
Well, of course players who where able to win championships in the past are still able to, and are going to continue winning championships now. However when the balance shifts in favor of one race more then you'll see more and more representatives of that race in qualifiers and a bit more overall in the primary tournaments themselves, we saw plenty of it in the BL Infestor days. It doesn't mean that random zergs won during the BL Infestor days, only the best still took championships, like Life, DRG, Leenock, etc, however you did see a lot more zergs both in qualifiers and in the tournaments themselves.
Anyway, this has gone way, way too off topic. Lets just focus on the awesomeness of the series before us, Soulkey vs PartinG.
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United States97277 Posts
Maru always seems to struggle in these online qualifiers :/
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Australia18228 Posts
That was so bad from Sora
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On February 06 2014 22:42 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2014 22:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:35 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 06 2014 22:33 Xoronius wrote:On February 06 2014 22:24 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 06 2014 22:19 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:15 Ghanburighan wrote:On February 06 2014 22:12 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote:
So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency. Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself? also this: On February 06 2014 22:11 NovaMB wrote:
ASUS and IEM had a Terran each in the semis (ForGG, jjakji) Edited. And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end. Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here. I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended. The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race. That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events. So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well? Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course. Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1.
Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big. 
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
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wtf sora... what a fight :D
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United States97277 Posts
Rogue clearly the best player on Jin Air
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
Kind of sad engagement by Sora there 
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EPT
