With ten spots reserved for IEM winners and first runner-ups, the final sixteen are far from decided. A further two players will be invited, leaving four spots open to the StarCraft II community.
The best player from Asia and Oceania will qualify for the World Championship in Katowice. See below how to,
Restrictions
There is no nationality or residential restriction
You must be at least 16 years of age by March 13th 2014 (the date of the LAN event)
Hotel and flight cost are paid for in full by ESL.
The tournament will be played on the Korea/Taiwan Server
Schedule
Qualifier : Thursday, Feb 06 8:00am GMT (GMT+00:00)
In a Best of 3 map veto (removal and pick) system is used. The high seeded player(seeds can be found at round 1 on the grid page) decides who starts. Players take it in turn removing maps until only 3 maps remain in a best of 3. Then each player picks a map. Maps are played in order they are picked. The remaining map is played last.
If I'm reading this correctly, you do not actually have live somewhere in Asia to actually play in this qualifier? You only have to play on the KR/TW server?
On January 31 2014 18:25 djraphi23 wrote: No region lock ?! European and American qualifiers will be stacked of koreans !
You know that ESL pays for flights from the region (at least in former IEM's) so if korean will win eu qualifier he would only get a flight from anywhere in Europe to Katowice. If we take into account that only the winner get paid korean teams wouldn't send their players to EU or NA qualifiers (well Axiom might be the only exception but i doubt TB would want to fork plane tickets from KR to NA or EU)
On January 31 2014 18:18 DARKING wrote: If I'm reading this correctly, you do not actually have live somewhere in Asia to actually play in this qualifier? You only have to play on the KR/TW server?
he should have pulled scvs after the first banelings were killed. Would have held this np then I think, still had that bunker at the ramp aswell being repaired by only 1 scv
So, I just tuned in, what is with all the westerners in the brackets? I understand Sase, but GoOdy, Nerchio, MaNa, Funkay, paranOid, Bly and DIMAGA are not really people, I expected in the korean qualifier. Is there some time-overlap with the european one?
On February 06 2014 18:23 Xoronius wrote: So, I just tuned in, what is with all the westerners in the brackets? I understand Sase, but GoOdy, Nerchio, MaNa, Funkay, paranOid, Bly and DIMAGA are not really people, I expected in the korean qualifier. Is there some time-overlap with the european one?
There is no regionlock in the qualifiers for IEM Katowice.
On February 06 2014 18:23 Xoronius wrote: So, I just tuned in, what is with all the westerners in the brackets? I understand Sase, but GoOdy, Nerchio, MaNa, Funkay, paranOid, Bly and DIMAGA are not really people, I expected in the korean qualifier. Is there some time-overlap with the european one?
yeah the qualifiers aren't region locked, everyone can play in all 3, you juust have to dead with the ping
Edit: I finally got your sentense, way too early sry
On February 06 2014 18:23 Xoronius wrote: So, I just tuned in, what is with all the westerners in the brackets? I understand Sase, but GoOdy, Nerchio, MaNa, Funkay, paranOid, Bly and DIMAGA are not really people, I expected in the korean qualifier. Is there some time-overlap with the european one?
Since it is open to everyone regardless of region, I guess some of the pros just want to practice vs the top koreans. Although playing at a lag disadvantage vs koreans probably isn't too realistic in terms of getting pass the first round.
On February 06 2014 18:23 Xoronius wrote: So, I just tuned in, what is with all the westerners in the brackets? I understand Sase, but GoOdy, Nerchio, MaNa, Funkay, paranOid, Bly and DIMAGA are not really people, I expected in the korean qualifier. Is there some time-overlap with the european one?
how are thy not people lol? but yeah the qualifiers aren't region locked, everyone can play in all 3, you juust have to dead with the ping
I think he typed an extra ','. It is suppose to read 'aren't people I expected in Asian qualifers' which makes sense
On February 06 2014 18:23 Xoronius wrote: So, I just tuned in, what is with all the westerners in the brackets? I understand Sase, but GoOdy, Nerchio, MaNa, Funkay, paranOid, Bly and DIMAGA are not really people, I expected in the korean qualifier. Is there some time-overlap with the european one?
how are thy not people lol? but yeah the qualifiers aren't region locked, everyone can play in all 3, you juust have to dead with the ping
I think he typed an extra ','. It is suppose to read 'aren't people I expected in Asian qualifers' which makes sense
Sometimes I wonder why you don't just cut out one of the gateways and add a forge instead. If you're not gonna attack, won't the Forge give greater utility?
On February 06 2014 18:35 Heartland wrote: Sometimes I wonder why you don't just cut out one of the gateways and add a forge instead. If you're not gonna attack, won't the Forge give greater utility?
the only thing i can think of is that he wants to have sentries against a bust, otherwise it doesn't make much sense also as part of the wall a gateway has 500/500 so 500 shields + 500 hp whereas the froge as part of the wall has only 400/400
On February 06 2014 18:23 Xoronius wrote: So, I just tuned in, what is with all the westerners in the brackets? I understand Sase, but GoOdy, Nerchio, MaNa, Funkay, paranOid, Bly and DIMAGA are not really people, I expected in the korean qualifier. Is there some time-overlap with the european one?
Since it is open to everyone regardless of region, I guess some of the pros just want to practice vs the top koreans. Although playing at a lag disadvantage vs koreans probably isn't too realistic in terms of getting pass the first round.
On February 06 2014 18:23 Xoronius wrote: So, I just tuned in, what is with all the westerners in the brackets? I understand Sase, but GoOdy, Nerchio, MaNa, Funkay, paranOid, Bly and DIMAGA are not really people, I expected in the korean qualifier. Is there some time-overlap with the european one?
yeah the qualifiers aren't region locked, everyone can play in all 3, you juust have to dead with the ping
Edit: I finally got your sentense, way too early sry
On February 06 2014 18:23 Xoronius wrote: So, I just tuned in, what is with all the westerners in the brackets? I understand Sase, but GoOdy, Nerchio, MaNa, Funkay, paranOid, Bly and DIMAGA are not really people, I expected in the korean qualifier. Is there some time-overlap with the european one?
There is no regionlock in the qualifiers for IEM Katowice.
On February 06 2014 18:44 HolydaKing wrote: holy fucking shit this qualifier is stacked. how I wish that Stork qualifies, but it's so damn unlikely. D:
If the other region qualifiers aren't region locked, is it possible for all three qualifiers having Korean's coming out of it with all of their flights/accommodation fully paid? Or if they win the American/European qualifier, they will have a smaller stipend.
On February 06 2014 18:44 HolydaKing wrote: holy fucking shit this qualifier is stacked. how I wish that Stork qualifies, but it's so damn unlikely. D:
On February 06 2014 18:44 HolydaKing wrote: holy fucking shit this qualifier is stacked. how I wish that Stork qualifies, but it's so damn unlikely. D:
On February 06 2014 19:01 [Silverflame] wrote: Is there a chance on getting some replays? Normally, ESL is kind of known for releasing replays. Would mean that I'll analyse replays whole weekend xD
Maybe after Blizzard releases WCS season 3 and Blizzcon replays!
On February 06 2014 19:01 [Silverflame] wrote: Is there a chance on getting some replays? Normally, ESL is kind of known for releasing replays. Would mean that I'll analyse replays whole weekend xD
Maybe after Blizzard releases WCS season 3 and Blizzcon replays!
some players immediately uploaded the replays so you can just download them. But not all of them did that (even though it is required if I remember correctly)
On February 06 2014 19:17 Aeromi wrote: Bbyong has a north korean flag ?
I think that's a bug with the ESL bracket system. In the bracket some Korean players have the NK flag but in the actual games they have the South Korean flag
On February 06 2014 19:17 Aeromi wrote: Bbyong has a north korean flag ?
I think that's a bug with the ESL bracket system. In the bracket some Korean players have the NK flag but in the actual games they have the South Korean flag
whoever is editing the liquipedia: you are too quick for me. I'm actually scared to edit it now thinking that I would only screw up what you are doing xD
On February 06 2014 19:34 Daswollvieh wrote: I tune in to Innovation vs Soulkarp, wtf, am I dreaming??
Innovation played mech before. Also this opening is really cool. Usually you get a 3rd CC or Banshees, Innovation got a third Reaper and a Marine and delayed the Starport and the 2nd Gas for just the right time so that he could get both, banshees and a 3rd CC. Really good opening strategy he figured out there
On February 06 2014 19:34 Daswollvieh wrote: I tune in to Innovation vs Soulkarp, wtf, am I dreaming??
Innovation played mech before. Also this opening is really cool. Usually you get a 3rd CC or Banshees, Innovation got a third Reaper and a Marine and delayed the Starport and the 2nd Gas for just the right time so that he could get both, banshees and a 3rd CC. Really good opening strategy he figured out there
On February 06 2014 19:36 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
On February 06 2014 19:35 Zealously wrote:
On February 06 2014 19:32 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: "They figured him out" ehh and nerfed hellbats into oblivion
You're right, both things happened. What are you trying to say?
That the second part is also why he is a lot less succesful.
Anyway, holy bbq
Well I guess everyone is free to have their own opinion, but Innovation sure as fuck didn't dominate TvZ on the back of hellbats
Nope, and he wasnt figured out. Was nothing to figure out, he was playing the most standard TvZ just that his mechanics, micro and decision making is one of the best in the world when he is in form.
On February 06 2014 19:43 Fjodorov wrote: SK should micro his locusts to get next to the sigetanks making splash hurt inno
As Apollo said, he was going for a big bane bust because he probably thought Inno is going bio but since he had tons of helions it was basically game over as soon as he lost all those lings by his third base.
I am sure SK will put up a better fight in the next game
On February 06 2014 19:45 SmoKim wrote: so i guess Terran now Mech against Zerg, thanks Inno -__-
Thank someone else, Bio/Mine has been getting beaten left right and center. After the Mine patch Mech is stronger than anything with Bio. Combined upgrades help aswell. And the current mappool works well with Mech,
On February 06 2014 19:45 SmoKim wrote: so i guess Terran now Mech against Zerg, thanks Inno -__-
Thank someone else, Bio/Mine has been getting beaten left right and center. After the Mine patch Mech is stronger than anything with Bio. Combined upgrades help aswell. And the current mappool works well with Mech,
Bio-Mine and Bio-Hellbat (depending on the map) are still playable though. Quite a lot of players still do it. And I personally will always stay with bio, I think mech is most of the time just really boring to play (especially when Zergs now what they are doing and go swarmhost and static defense turtle)
On February 06 2014 19:45 SmoKim wrote: so i guess Terran now Mech against Zerg, thanks Inno -__-
Thank someone else, Bio/Mine has been getting beaten left right and center. After the Mine patch Mech is stronger than anything with Bio. Combined upgrades help aswell. And the current mappool works well with Mech,
Bio-Mine and Bio-Hellbat (depending on the map) are still playable though. Quite a lot of players still do it. And I personally will always stay with bio, I think mech is most of the time just really boring to play (especially when Zergs now what they are doing and go swarmhost and static defense turtle)
Of course its still playable, but I dont think its on equal strength to Ling/Bane/Muta anymore.
On February 06 2014 20:09 Arceus wrote: SK needs to transit to something else. He wont lose by playing SH/Muta efficiently but he just couldnt win either
No he doesn't He's starving Innovation out.
If this goes on much longer Innovation will have to tap out.
On February 06 2014 20:09 Arceus wrote: SK needs to transit to something else. He wont lose by playing SH/Muta efficiently but he just couldnt win either
No he doesn't He's starving Innovation out.
If this goes on much longer Innovation will have to tap out.
I know. But at some point, Inno might just burst through the SH defense or getting the mutas flock locked up in some flanks. Very risky strat by SK imo (that said, hes still doing great, outmaneuvering the mech army here and there)
On February 06 2014 20:09 Arceus wrote: SK needs to transit to something else. He wont lose by playing SH/Muta efficiently but he just couldnt win either
No he doesn't He's starving Innovation out.
If this goes on much longer Innovation will have to tap out.
I know. But at some point, Inno might just burst through the SH defense or getting the mutas flock locked up in some flanks. Very risky strat by SK imo (that said, hes still doing great, outmaneuvering the mech army here and there)
With that extra base, it might take a bit more to starve out Inno.
On February 06 2014 20:16 Vindicare605 wrote: Soulkey is going to win this.
was it the 50 supply advantage that gave it away ;o
WP by both but I don't know why Innovation didn't make mines or switch to air other than vikings at some point.... praying you can catch enough mutas out for long enough with about half their number of vikings and 8 thors is just foolishness. SK was also flying blind (no overseer), so it would at least force some caution...
On February 06 2014 20:17 Baadbeat wrote: Wow Such a great game for SH vs Mech!!
Yes, now this is a game I like, this is the kind of SH use I really love and not that turtling bullcrap. Really amazing play by Soulkey, in that end game he made no mistakes.
Wow! This game was amazing to watch. I would probably have ragequit from both sides due to mispositioning the swarmhosts or the thors haha. The continous position battle was insane.
On February 06 2014 20:16 Vindicare605 wrote: Soulkey is going to win this.
was it the 50 supply advantage that gave it away ;o
WP by both but I don't know why Innovation didn't make mines or switch to air other than vikings at some point.... praying you can catch enough mutas out for long enough with about half their number of vikings and 8 thors is just foolishness. SK was also flying blind (no overseer), so it would at least force some caution...
Ah well, he's still better than me :d
I was actually ready to say that Soulkey was going to win when his Mutalisk ball crushed through the 3 command centers at the 6 o clock base but I didn't want to be proven wrong if he threw away all his units stupidly.
But that was the point the momentum shifted I think.
On February 06 2014 20:17 Swiipii wrote: If only Inno had a few medivacs to drop units on top of those swarmhosts ..
lol no. Wtf would that do?
Scan and kill some SH, put them back in the medivac once the locusts pop out.
Inno lacked banshees, raven with seeker or anything that could make him benefit from his air advantage after Soulkey let his SH unprotected to counter with his mutalisks.
I think innovation actually had some windows where he could land his vikings to kill swarm hosts. I think from a player's perspective it's too risky since the mutalisks will come to kill the vikings, but from an omniscient spectator's perspective it would have been a sick move.
That composition was unbeatable for Innovation without transitioning to mass ravens himself. Soulkey really had a magic composition of just enough swarmhosts and rest mutas.
On February 06 2014 20:21 JustPassingBy wrote: That composition was unbeatable for Innovation without transitioning to mass ravens himself. Soulkey really had a magic composition of just enough swarmhosts and rest mutas.
Innovation could easily have won that if he didn't lose so much economy, it wasn't a composition problem
On February 06 2014 20:21 JustPassingBy wrote: That composition was unbeatable for Innovation without transitioning to mass ravens himself. Soulkey really had a magic composition of just enough swarmhosts and rest mutas.
Innovation could easily have won that if he didn't lose so much economy, it wasn't a composition problem
Well, it kind of was a composition problem and it being the reason why he lost so much economy because he isn't as mobile as Mutas.
On February 06 2014 20:21 JustPassingBy wrote: That composition was unbeatable for Innovation without transitioning to mass ravens himself. Soulkey really had a magic composition of just enough swarmhosts and rest mutas.
Innovation could easily have won that if he didn't lose so much economy, it wasn't a composition problem
And how exactly do you defend vs that many mutas? Mutas in the current form are just pretty good at not dying to anything
On February 06 2014 20:17 Swiipii wrote: If only Inno had a few medivacs to drop units on top of those swarmhosts ..
lol no. Wtf would that do?
Scan and kill some SH, put them back in the medivac once the locusts pop out.
Inno lacked banshees, raven with seeker or anything that could make him benefit from his air advantage after Soulkey let his SH unprotected to counter with his mutalisks.
I don't think dropping units is the right choice. Hellbats take too long to kill one and tanks are too valuable to lose because it's just a matter of one minute top when the muta catches the drop. Agree with the ravens though, but they are hard to tech to unless you turtle, which Innovation decided against.
On February 06 2014 20:17 Swiipii wrote: If only Inno had a few medivacs to drop units on top of those swarmhosts ..
lol no. Wtf would that do?
Scan and kill some SH, put them back in the medivac once the locusts pop out.
Inno lacked banshees, raven with seeker or anything that could make him benefit from his air advantage after Soulkey let his SH unprotected to counter with his mutalisks.
I don't think dropping units is the right choice. Hellbats take too long to kill one and tanks are too valuable to lose because it's just a matter of one minute top when the muta catches the drop. Agree with the ravens though, but they are hard to tech to unless you turtle, which Innovation decided against.
I wonder if he would have 3-4 banshees with his tank/thors. Then could pick off 2-3 swarmhosts between every wave when the mutas were away
On February 06 2014 20:21 JustPassingBy wrote: That composition was unbeatable for Innovation without transitioning to mass ravens himself. Soulkey really had a magic composition of just enough swarmhosts and rest mutas.
Innovation could easily have won that if he didn't lose so much economy, it wasn't a composition problem
And how exactly do you defend vs that many mutas? Mutas in the current form are just pretty good at not dying to anything
Inno was doing quite fine actually. At some point he was 40 supply up with Soulkey having a hard time finding an opening. Wish he turtled a bit more to get some ravens. But it's easy to make judgements when you're not actually playing. :D
well, Innovation is screwed. The only chance he has is to go for split-map turtle into the ultimate air army. No way to kill Soulkey earlier. But it looks like Soulkey will give him the time for it so this will be a 40 minute air and static d battle from now on >.<
remember when swarmhosts were introtuced for the first time to fill a gap in the zergs arsenal to finish a game with an advantage? well so much for that haha
This reminds me on good old Brood War mech against Zerg games. :D Turrets everywhere, Tanks everywhere, except that in Brood War we were seeing mass Queens for Broodlings with Defilers and other Zerg ground units.
I think he needs to keep a raven next to the missile turrets and have sensor towers, so that he can cast point defense drone in time to help the turrets trading more evenly. But with that many mutalisks maybe you can still burn through the pdd very quickly, so I don't know.
On February 06 2014 20:42 Grumbels wrote: I think he needs to keep a raven next to the missile turrets and have sensor towers, so that he can cast point defense drone in time to help the turrets trading more evenly. But with that many mutalisks maybe you can still burn through the pdd very quickly, so I don't know.
On February 06 2014 20:42 Grumbels wrote: I think he needs to keep a raven next to the missile turrets and have sensor towers, so that he can cast point defense drone in time to help the turrets trading more evenly. But with that many mutalisks maybe you can still burn through the pdd very quickly, so I don't know.
On February 06 2014 20:44 Mozdk wrote: Lol did any1 just see parting beat 50 mutas in 3 seconds.
:-o how?
hydra stacked just about 60 mutas and got hit by 5 storms in a row without dodging anything, he just attacked through it. More than 50 mutas evaporated it was hilarious xD
Also hydra had the game won with 60 mutas against a bunch of tempests and colossai with 160 supply to 90-something I think. And now Parting won :D
Tbh, I think that innovation can at many points in the game transition into a draw scenario. If you have dead air where only mutalisks can go to then with enough vikings and ravens I suspect it's theoretically unbreakable.
On February 06 2014 20:44 Mozdk wrote: Lol did any1 just see parting beat 50 mutas in 3 seconds.
:-o how?
Ehm 6 ish storms, few archons and some tempests. Hydra should win that game 100/100 times. None of them were mining and none of them had bank. Supply was 150 to Hydra vs around 95 for Parting. He could have won with half the mutas.
On February 06 2014 20:53 Prince_Stranger wrote: Soulkey's ZvT is just insane.
Soulkey has lately looked as dominant in ZvT as Innovation used to look in TvZ.
It's fucking mind boggling. I watch Soulkey play and I just don't understand how to beat him. His macro, his micro and his decision making are all so fucking good.
On February 06 2014 20:55 Ufnal wrote: Seriously, this better make into liquid week recap, it was really good! Why do matches on such a level occur so low in the bracket?
for some reason these kinds of games always happen in random online qualifiers in like the ro16 or some shit. Innovation vs Curious comes to mind.
The 2nd game of that series was sick good, incredible resilience from both Soulkey and Innovation, but game 3 was just sad. The immobility of mech on a large map, coupled with muta balls just made it frustrating to watch.
Good games overall, but still frustrating in a lot of ways. Edit: PartinG vs TY, off to a nice start.
On February 06 2014 20:54 FeyFey wrote: yay Soulkey and Innovation saving us from Terran nerfs, because Sky Terran is to strong and looked into.
Did Blizzard really say that?
was in the QnA with David Kim, said they want to look into it but want to see it being used in pro games more first. Can only recommend the TL thread about it. The OP is nicely sorted, and the comments of some people are super funny, atleast if you find it funny to read comments where you feel like headbanging on the desk.
On February 06 2014 21:08 Butterz wrote: so this is for qualifying for the spot in that 100000 winner takes all right ?
yes. Btw these qualifiers are not region-locked. ESL only pays for flights from the region that the player qualified from though
Where does it say that? I could only find "Hotel and flight cost are paid for in full by ESL."
I just checked, you are right. The official page says that these are paid in full. Well, then the only thing stopping Koreans from the other qualifiers are lag and inconvenient time
It surprised me how well secured a Protoss base can be with just 2 High Templar and some cannons, that 30 supply of Terran just can't put the tiniest dent in it 0.0! Parting did spend more attention to it than TY tho.
On February 06 2014 21:25 sashkata wrote: TY is sooo good!
He wasn't that impressive, it was mostly PartinG gifting half an army to him that allowed TY to almost come back. PartinG then quickly rectified that mistake.
On February 06 2014 21:25 sashkata wrote: TY is sooo good!
He wasn't that impressive, it was mostly PartinG gifting half an army to him that allowed TY to almost come back. PartinG then quickly rectified that mistake.
Yeah his drops were getting crushed and his econ was fairly behind.
On February 06 2014 21:25 sashkata wrote: TY is sooo good!
He wasn't that impressive, it was mostly PartinG gifting half an army to him that allowed TY to almost come back. PartinG then quickly rectified that mistake.
I'm talking about the whole game. Most terrans would have died a long time ago.
On February 06 2014 21:25 sashkata wrote: TY is sooo good!
He wasn't that impressive, it was mostly PartinG gifting half an army to him that allowed TY to almost come back. PartinG then quickly rectified that mistake.
Yeah his drops were getting crushed and his econ was fairly behind.
Well, he lost a lot of Econ earlier which allowed PartinG to cannon up so drops don't work anymore.
Bye bye Baby, oh well, at least I'm a PartinG fan, so there's that, and maybe just maybe I get to see Cure's mech vs Toss and judge for myself how good or bad it really is.
If Bogus vs Soulkey was any indicator then trying to play mech on cross spawn Alterzim is fucking suicide, at least this way he still has a ghost of a chance.
If Bogus vs Soulkey was any indicator then trying to play mech on cross spawn Alterzim is fucking suicide, at least this way he still has a ghost of a chance.
hehe yeah didnt mean he should play mech. Was more like Bbyong has quite the task ahead of him to take the win with those circumstances
On February 06 2014 21:41 Destructicon wrote: Bye bye Baby, oh well, at least I'm a PartinG fan, so there's that, and maybe just maybe I get to see Cure's mech vs Toss and judge for myself how good or bad it really is.
Damn the first thing I thought when I saw your post was BabyByeBye.
Honestly it's kinda hard to call it at this stage but I'm expecting Ryul2 to put up a good fight vs any of the remaining players.
On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote: So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency.
Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself?
also this:
On February 06 2014 22:11 NovaMB wrote: ASUS and IEM had a Terran each in the semis (ForGG, jjakji)
On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote: So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency.
Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself?
On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote: So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency.
Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself?
When it makes Protoss/Zerg look imba
I mean sure, great players and all, no doubt about that, but rofl...
On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote: So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency.
Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself?
On February 06 2014 22:11 NovaMB wrote: ASUS and IEM had a Terran each in the semis (ForGG, jjakji)
Edited.
And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end.
On February 06 2014 22:16 Ramiz1989 wrote: People arguing if Soulkey is the best and most consistent player right now? You guys forgot about RorO already? :S
Hngh
I agree, Roro is quite clearly a very good and consistent Zerg
On February 06 2014 22:16 Ramiz1989 wrote: People arguing if Soulkey is the best and most consistent player right now? You guys forgot about RorO already? :S
Hngh
I agree, Roro is quite clearly a very good and consistent Zerg
In the context of balance I would say that the only meaningful thing is the quality of players, if you can assume they are all playing 100% to win. Thats why I could agree to call this a premier tournament in such a discussion. Just look at the number of players who are top level.
On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote: So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency.
Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself?
also this:
On February 06 2014 22:11 NovaMB wrote: ASUS and IEM had a Terran each in the semis (ForGG, jjakji)
Edited.
And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end.
Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here.
On February 06 2014 22:16 Ramiz1989 wrote: People arguing if Soulkey is the best and most consistent player right now? You guys forgot about RorO already? :S
Hngh
I agree, Roro is quite clearly a very good and consistent Zerg
On February 06 2014 22:16 Ramiz1989 wrote: People arguing if Soulkey is the best and most consistent player right now? You guys forgot about RorO already? :S
Hngh
I agree, Roro is quite clearly a very good and consistent Zerg
How long is that lost bet still going?
Twelve more days tt
It'll be over for the GSL groups of Life AND RorO, should be a fun week.
On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote: So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency.
Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself?
also this:
On February 06 2014 22:11 NovaMB wrote: ASUS and IEM had a Terran each in the semis (ForGG, jjakji)
Edited.
And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end.
Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here.
Then isnt it better to base the discussion around matches that are played when both players are comfortable, rather than situations where one player has huge nerve issues that have nothing to do with balance or the game?
On February 06 2014 22:16 Ramiz1989 wrote: People arguing if Soulkey is the best and most consistent player right now? You guys forgot about RorO already? :S
Hngh
I agree, Roro is quite clearly a very good and consistent Zerg
How long is that lost bet still going?
Twelve more days tt
It'll be over for the GSL groups of Life AND RorO, should be a fun week.
ah damn, would be way more fun if those groups were still in that time :D
On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote: So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency.
Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself?
also this:
On February 06 2014 22:11 NovaMB wrote: ASUS and IEM had a Terran each in the semis (ForGG, jjakji)
Edited.
And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end.
Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here.
I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended.
On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote: So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency.
Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself?
also this:
On February 06 2014 22:11 NovaMB wrote: ASUS and IEM had a Terran each in the semis (ForGG, jjakji)
Edited.
And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end.
Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here.
I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended.
Because they're good players?
I guess Terran was broken too back when MMA and Mvp were winning tournaments... -_-
If things really were as broken as you so desperately try to suggest then we would have random Protosses winning instead, people who were completely mediocre beforehand, edging out better players. Instead we have PartinG and Sora, who are fucking good and have been fucking good for a while.
On February 06 2014 22:16 Ramiz1989 wrote: People arguing if Soulkey is the best and most consistent player right now? You guys forgot about RorO already? :S
Hngh
I agree, Roro is quite clearly a very good and consistent Zerg
On February 06 2014 22:16 Ramiz1989 wrote: People arguing if Soulkey is the best and most consistent player right now? You guys forgot about RorO already? :S
Hngh
I agree, Roro is quite clearly a very good and consistent Zerg
On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote: So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency.
Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself?
also this:
On February 06 2014 22:11 NovaMB wrote: ASUS and IEM had a Terran each in the semis (ForGG, jjakji)
Edited.
And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end.
Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here.
I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended.
The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race.
On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote: So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency.
Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself?
also this:
On February 06 2014 22:11 NovaMB wrote: ASUS and IEM had a Terran each in the semis (ForGG, jjakji)
Edited.
And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end.
Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here.
I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended.
The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race.
On February 06 2014 22:34 Derez wrote: Hm I was looking at IEM cologne which liquipedia says is next week, but the WCS ranking players aren't known yet for some reason?
One of them is Dear. But I guess they'll announce everything soon.
On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote: So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency.
Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself?
also this:
On February 06 2014 22:11 NovaMB wrote: ASUS and IEM had a Terran each in the semis (ForGG, jjakji)
Edited.
And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end.
Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here.
I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended.
The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race.
That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events.
On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote: So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency.
Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself?
also this:
On February 06 2014 22:11 NovaMB wrote: ASUS and IEM had a Terran each in the semis (ForGG, jjakji)
Edited.
And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end.
Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here.
I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended.
The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race.
That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events.
So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well?
Protoss is doing well now left, right and center, they are winning qualifiers, they are winning tournaments and they are winning online cups too. Not sure there is much arguing to be had against that at this point.
On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote: So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency.
Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself?
also this:
On February 06 2014 22:11 NovaMB wrote: ASUS and IEM had a Terran each in the semis (ForGG, jjakji)
Edited.
And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end.
Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here.
I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended.
Because they're good players?
I guess Terran was broken too back when MMA and Mvp were winning tournaments... -_-
If things really were as broken as you so desperately try to suggest then we would have random Protosses winning instead, people who were completely mediocre beforehand, edging out better players. Instead we have PartinG and Sora, who are fucking good and have been fucking good for a while.
Actually, even if there is imbalance in a specific match up, the top players from each races will still do well, it is just the percentage of players at the top will be shifted to the 'OP' race.
The 1-1-1 era didn't have players like Ensnare/Virus win a GSL either... doesn't mean there is no imbalance... If there is an 'OP' race, the top 6-8 players of that race will likely win.
On February 06 2014 22:36 Destructicon wrote: Protoss is doing well now left, right and center, they are winning qualifiers, they are winning tournaments and they are winning online cups too. Not sure there is much arguing to be had against that at this point.
However, there aren't a million "new" Protoss players that are winning stuff. It's mostly the same guys - just as when the same Terrans were winning everything in 2011.
On February 06 2014 22:36 Destructicon wrote: Protoss is doing well now left, right and center, they are winning qualifiers, they are winning tournaments and they are winning online cups too. Not sure there is much arguing to be had against that at this point.
Not sure why this is so hard for you to properly comprehend. The people who are winning tournaments were already good enough to win in the first place. They've been at that level for a while now. Your personal opinion notwithstanding, statistics (and actually watching their games, past and present) show that players like san and herO[jOin] are really fucking good and have been really fucking good for months if not more. Same goes for PartinG and Sora.
Do you think Terran was strong back when Mvp and MMA were dominating tournaments? No, they were literally the best players in the game and few, if any, were on their level (DongRaeGu).
On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote: So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency.
Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself?
also this:
On February 06 2014 22:11 NovaMB wrote: ASUS and IEM had a Terran each in the semis (ForGG, jjakji)
Edited.
And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end.
Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here.
I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended.
The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race.
That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events.
MoP is arguing, that players, who are good, should do well in tournaments. Like for example Taeja for the last half year. Like for example Soulkey. Or like for example PartinG and Sora. If the players, that do well in qualifiers, always do bad at tournaments, that would be pretty weird, would´nt it?
could you guys take that discussion somewhere else please? I mean I'm arguing balance too sometimes but I do it in the skype group with my friends. Or to the mad marine club or the designated balance discussion thread.
On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote: So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency.
Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself?
also this:
On February 06 2014 22:11 NovaMB wrote: ASUS and IEM had a Terran each in the semis (ForGG, jjakji)
Edited.
And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end.
Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here.
I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended.
The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race.
That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events.
So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well?
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course.
Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1.
On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote: So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency.
Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself?
also this:
On February 06 2014 22:11 NovaMB wrote: ASUS and IEM had a Terran each in the semis (ForGG, jjakji)
Edited.
And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end.
Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here.
I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended.
Because they're good players?
I guess Terran was broken too back when MMA and Mvp were winning tournaments... -_-
If things really were as broken as you so desperately try to suggest then we would have random Protosses winning instead, people who were completely mediocre beforehand, edging out better players. Instead we have PartinG and Sora, who are fucking good and have been fucking good for a while.
Actually, even if there is imbalance in a specific match up, the top players from each races will still do well, it is just the percentage of players at the top will be shifted to the 'OP' race.
The 1-1-1 era didn't have players like Ensnare/Virus win a GSL either... doesn't mean there is no imbalance... If there is an 'OP' race, the top 6-8 players of that race will likely win.
I have mixed feelings on the1-1-1 era considering players like Puzzle and HuK stopped the dreaded push dead in its tracks pre-Immortal buff. I still think people way over-reacted instead of practicing and putting their minds to it, and it's Blizzard's fault for patching everything on a whim back then that lead to that defeatist mentality.
On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote: So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency.
Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself?
also this:
On February 06 2014 22:11 NovaMB wrote: ASUS and IEM had a Terran each in the semis (ForGG, jjakji)
Edited.
And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end.
Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here.
I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended.
The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race.
That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events.
So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well?
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course.
Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1.
It's fine that you don't agree with Pigbaby, Trust and Paralyze being in the Ro16 - but you really need to read up on Hurricane and Zest.
Well, of course players who where able to win championships in the past are still able to, and are going to continue winning championships now. However when the balance shifts in favor of one race more then you'll see more and more representatives of that race in qualifiers and a bit more overall in the primary tournaments themselves, we saw plenty of it in the BL Infestor days. It doesn't mean that random zergs won during the BL Infestor days, only the best still took championships, like Life, DRG, Leenock, etc, however you did see a lot more zergs both in qualifiers and in the tournaments themselves.
Anyway, this has gone way, way too off topic. Lets just focus on the awesomeness of the series before us, Soulkey vs PartinG.
On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote: So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency.
Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself?
also this:
On February 06 2014 22:11 NovaMB wrote: ASUS and IEM had a Terran each in the semis (ForGG, jjakji)
Edited.
And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end.
Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here.
I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended.
The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race.
That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events.
So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well?
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course.
Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1.
Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big.
On February 06 2014 22:36 Destructicon wrote: Protoss is doing well now left, right and center, they are winning qualifiers, they are winning tournaments and they are winning online cups too. Not sure there is much arguing to be had against that at this point.
However, there aren't a million "new" Protoss players that are winning stuff. It's mostly the same guys - just as when the same Terrans were winning everything in 2011.
The best of the P should be winning tournaments because they win against mediocre P, right? And if the problem is only in PvT, good Z like Soulkey should be taking out mediocre P as well. So, you shouldn't look at who wins, but who wins against who and where the representation lies in the end. For example, Code A does have some rather surprising P like Yonghwa, Myungsik, Panic and Paralyze. These guys were not considered as Code S contenders a little while ago, in fact, they were relatively unknown. Now, in this tournament, Paralyze beat Maru, while the latter is considered the best TvP player on the planet.
Edit: too many responses to this stuff. That's enough I think.
On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote: So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency.
Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself?
also this:
On February 06 2014 22:11 NovaMB wrote: ASUS and IEM had a Terran each in the semis (ForGG, jjakji)
Edited.
And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end.
Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here.
I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended.
The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race.
That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events.
So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well?
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course.
Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1.
It's fine that you don't agree with Pigbaby, Trust and Paralyze being in the Ro16 - but you really need to read up on Hurricane and Zest.
Again, I am not saying they are bad players. And the top of the korean player pool is so close that I wouldn't disagree on any of those 5 make it. But to have ALL 5 make it is something else.
Let's try this, list of all the players that you feel has a chance to do well in a tournament (not necessary win, but do well). With terran, your list might go 10 deep, with protoss, it will be in the 20 range.
On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote: So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency.
Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself?
also this:
On February 06 2014 22:11 NovaMB wrote: ASUS and IEM had a Terran each in the semis (ForGG, jjakji)
Edited.
And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end.
Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here.
I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended.
The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race.
That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events.
So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well?
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course.
Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1.
Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big.
Come on, TOP was´nt that bad, he had some pretty good series and runs during his career.
On February 06 2014 22:49 NovaMB wrote: Rogue has beaten CranK, RainSacsri, Zest and Sora on his way to the final. And some poor Australian in the first round
Where did Rogue come from? I've seen him a lot recently, and he plays scary good, but he just appeared from nowhere.
On February 06 2014 22:49 NovaMB wrote: Rogue has beaten CranK, RainSacsri, Zest and Sora on his way to the final. And some poor Australian in the first round
That's a pretty swell kill list there O_o. Seems to be quite on fire.
On February 06 2014 22:49 NovaMB wrote: Rogue has beaten CranK, RainSacsri, Zest and Sora on his way to the final. And some poor Australian in the first round
On February 06 2014 22:36 Destructicon wrote: Protoss is doing well now left, right and center, they are winning qualifiers, they are winning tournaments and they are winning online cups too. Not sure there is much arguing to be had against that at this point.
However, there aren't a million "new" Protoss players that are winning stuff. It's mostly the same guys - just as when the same Terrans were winning everything in 2011.
The best of the P should be winning tournaments because they win against mediocre P, right? And if the problem is only in PvT, good Z like Soulkey should be taking out mediocre P as well. So, you shouldn't look at who wins, but who wins against who and where the representation lies in the end. For example, Code A does have some rather surprising P like Yonghwa, Myungsik, Panic and Paralyze. These guys were not considered as Code S contenders a little while ago, in fact, they were relatively unknown. Now, in this tournament, Paralyze beat Maru, while the latter is considered the best TvP player on the planet.
Edit: too many responses to this stuff. That's enough I think.
YongHwa is only "relatively unknown" to the untrained viewer's eye, he's been one of the most underrate Protoss in SC2 history. When he plays well he looks top 3, and when he doesn't we're reminded why most viewers haven't heard too much of him, but to look at results alone and not games when you assess that is a little silly.
On February 06 2014 22:09 Ghanburighan wrote: So, third premier level tournament in a row (after Asus and IEM Sao Paulo) with no terrans in the top 4. And that's on top of the Code A result.
And blink was shown to be unchanged in potency.
Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself?
also this:
On February 06 2014 22:11 NovaMB wrote: ASUS and IEM had a Terran each in the semis (ForGG, jjakji)
Edited.
And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end.
Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here.
I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended.
The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race.
That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events.
So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well?
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course.
Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1.
Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big.
TOP was at a GSL finals when 1-1-1 was in its prime...
On February 06 2014 22:12 MasterOfPuppets wrote: [quote]
Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself?
also this:
[quote]
Edited.
And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end.
Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here.
I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended.
The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race.
That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events.
So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well?
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course.
Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1.
Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big.
Come on, TOP was´nt that bad, he had some pretty good series and runs during his career.
It's debatable, I've seen TOP lose to low-tier European players in the past year or so.
On February 06 2014 22:36 Destructicon wrote: Protoss is doing well now left, right and center, they are winning qualifiers, they are winning tournaments and they are winning online cups too. Not sure there is much arguing to be had against that at this point.
However, there aren't a million "new" Protoss players that are winning stuff. It's mostly the same guys - just as when the same Terrans were winning everything in 2011.
The best of the P should be winning tournaments because they win against mediocre P, right? And if the problem is only in PvT, good Z like Soulkey should be taking out mediocre P as well. So, you shouldn't look at who wins, but who wins against who and where the representation lies in the end. For example, Code A does have some rather surprising P like Yonghwa, Myungsik, Panic and Paralyze. These guys were not considered as Code S contenders a little while ago, in fact, they were relatively unknown. Now, in this tournament, Paralyze beat Maru, while the latter is considered the best TvP player on the planet.
I'm saying that the whole "Protoss is OP"-debate comes down to people in 90% of the cases simply not knowing the players that are showing up. It's largely the same discussion that people were having when Zerg players were having their fair share of success in late 2012/early 2013. If you don't follow the Korean scene extremely closely, you might find results you think are illogical and chalk it up to imbalances. I'm saying don't do that. In most cases the players were extremely good anyway.
On February 06 2014 22:49 NovaMB wrote: Rogue has beaten CranK, RainSacsri, Zest and Sora on his way to the final. And some poor Australian in the first round
On February 06 2014 22:12 MasterOfPuppets wrote: [quote]
Since when is an online qualifier considered a premier tournament in and of itself?
also this:
[quote]
Edited.
And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end.
Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here.
I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended.
The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race.
That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events.
So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well?
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course.
Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1.
Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big.
TOP was at a GSL finals when 1-1-1 was in its prime...
Ok, if you see MyungSik or Paralyze or Panic in the finals this GSL season you can call me a retard, but until then....
On February 06 2014 22:49 NovaMB wrote: Rogue has beaten CranK, RainSacsri, Zest and Sora on his way to the final. And some poor Australian in the first round
On February 06 2014 22:49 NovaMB wrote: Rogue has beaten CranK, RainSacsri, Zest and Sora on his way to the final. And some poor Australian in the first round
Where did Rogue come from? I've seen him a lot recently, and he plays scary good, but he just appeared from nowhere.
Rogue (formerly Savage, Ryul2) was a mediocre player on Team 8's roster during the last proleague. Showed a bit of promise but hardly anything spectacular save for a few games.
On February 06 2014 22:15 Ghanburighan wrote: [quote]
Edited.
And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end.
Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here.
I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended.
The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race.
That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events.
So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well?
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course.
Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1.
Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big.
Come on, TOP was´nt that bad, he had some pretty good series and runs during his career.
It's debatable, I've seen TOP lose to low-tier European players in the past year or so.
Of course he isn't that good now. But during 2011 he was one of the (pun def. intended) TOP terran players, just below Mvp/MKP.
On February 06 2014 22:36 Destructicon wrote: Protoss is doing well now left, right and center, they are winning qualifiers, they are winning tournaments and they are winning online cups too. Not sure there is much arguing to be had against that at this point.
However, there aren't a million "new" Protoss players that are winning stuff. It's mostly the same guys - just as when the same Terrans were winning everything in 2011.
The best of the P should be winning tournaments because they win against mediocre P, right? And if the problem is only in PvT, good Z like Soulkey should be taking out mediocre P as well. So, you shouldn't look at who wins, but who wins against who and where the representation lies in the end. For example, Code A does have some rather surprising P like Yonghwa, Myungsik, Panic and Paralyze. These guys were not considered as Code S contenders a little while ago, in fact, they were relatively unknown. Now, in this tournament, Paralyze beat Maru, while the latter is considered the best TvP player on the planet.
Edit: too many responses to this stuff. That's enough I think.
How can you put Yonghwa in that list, he has been around for ages now and has been worth a lot for IM in teamleagues. Besides that, stuff like Paralyze beating Maru just happens during online qualifiers. If you look at the history of IEM qualifiers, there have always been a few weird results in there. Or take WCS qualifiers for example, where Diestar eliminated First. Stuff like that just happens from time to time.
On February 06 2014 22:49 NovaMB wrote: Rogue has beaten CranK, RainSacsri, Zest and Sora on his way to the final. And some poor Australian in the first round
On February 06 2014 22:52 Zealously wrote: If you don't follow the Korean scene extremely closely, you might find results you think are illogical and chalk it up to imbalances. I'm saying don't do that. In most cases the players were extremely good anyway.
On February 06 2014 22:52 Zealously wrote: If you don't follow the Korean scene extremely closely, you might find results you think are illogical and chalk it up to imbalances. I'm saying don't do that. In most cases the players were extremely good anyway.
Quoted for fucking truth.
Agreed. People yelling "PROTOSS OP!" when players like San/Parting are winning are just mindlessly repeating the current circlejerk hive mind.
Anyway, loving Parting's play today, he is on fire and clearly out for blood. Wow.
On February 06 2014 22:53 Doublemint wrote: Complete and utter domination by PartinG. I kinda like it, but god dammit Soulkey make him work for that spot!
Apollo is right, you can be perfectly fine being behind on bases as long you are stable on 3. Make mass static def, slowly increase SH count, play very conservatively and make sure you have creep spread and static defense before taking new expos.
SK just played that too aggressively. I've seen Stephano be down 2 bases to 4 vs toss and still win. It's all about conserving units and maxing out with the proper composition. You can max out AND build a bank on 3 bases as zerg as long as you are careful enough.
On February 06 2014 22:49 NovaMB wrote: Rogue has beaten CranK, RainSacsri, Zest and Sora on his way to the final. And some poor Australian in the first round
Where did Rogue come from? I've seen him a lot recently, and he plays scary good, but he just appeared from nowhere.
Rogue (formerly Savage, Ryul2) was a mediocre player on Team 8's roster during the last proleague. Showed a bit of promise but hardly anything spectacular save for a few games.
On February 06 2014 22:19 MasterOfPuppets wrote: [quote]
Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here.
I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended.
The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race.
That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events.
So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well?
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course.
Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1.
Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big.
Come on, TOP was´nt that bad, he had some pretty good series and runs during his career.
It's debatable, I've seen TOP lose to low-tier European players in the past year or so.
Of course he isn't that good now. But during 2011 he was one of the (pun def. intended) TOP terran players, just below Mvp/MKP.
According to our Aligulac statistics, before his GSL August finals TOP was rated #28 in the world, and in the Terran roster he was eclipsed, in order of rating, by Mvp, PuMa, Bomber, MMA, GanZi, MarineKing, Strelok, Ryung, Kas, GoOdy, TheStC, TaeJa, GuMiHo, Polt and SuperNoVa. All of which good players, sure, but still...
You can find the stats here, once again this being 3 days before the GSL August 2011 finals.
On February 06 2014 22:15 Ghanburighan wrote: [quote]
Edited.
And I'm not saying that this qualifier is a premier event, I'm saying that it's of comparable level - which is due to the representation and overall prize pool at the end.
Korean tosses have always (and I do mean *always*, never forget how Creator and Squirtle among many others got started) done very well in online qualifiers and events and for the most part have failed to deliver in the actual main tournament. But whatever, infer what you want, it's no use discussing balance here.
I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended.
The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race.
That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events.
So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well?
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course.
Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1.
Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big.
Come on, TOP was´nt that bad, he had some pretty good series and runs during his career.
It's debatable, I've seen TOP lose to low-tier European players in the past year or so.
Not saying, he is good now. But during his Prime, he had victories over Byun, sC, aLive,SuNo, Nestea, Polt and more.
On February 06 2014 22:36 Destructicon wrote: Protoss is doing well now left, right and center, they are winning qualifiers, they are winning tournaments and they are winning online cups too. Not sure there is much arguing to be had against that at this point.
However, there aren't a million "new" Protoss players that are winning stuff. It's mostly the same guys - just as when the same Terrans were winning everything in 2011.
The best of the P should be winning tournaments because they win against mediocre P, right? And if the problem is only in PvT, good Z like Soulkey should be taking out mediocre P as well. So, you shouldn't look at who wins, but who wins against who and where the representation lies in the end. For example, Code A does have some rather surprising P like Yonghwa, Myungsik, Panic and Paralyze. These guys were not considered as Code S contenders a little while ago, in fact, they were relatively unknown. Now, in this tournament, Paralyze beat Maru, while the latter is considered the best TvP player on the planet.
I'm saying that the whole "Protoss is OP"-debate comes down to people in 90% of the cases simply not knowing the players that are showing up. It's largely the same discussion that people were having when Zerg players were having their fair share of success in late 2012/early 2013. If you don't follow the Korean scene extremely closely, you might find results you think are illogical and chalk it up to imbalances. I'm saying don't do that. In most cases the players were extremely good anyway.
ALL the players on the korean pro teams at extremely good. And have a protoss from that group 'break out' is not surprising regardless of the meta/balance. But when you have 10 protosses 'breaking out' and 2-3 terrans, there must be a reason why. So you can't just look at a specific match and say balance was the reason for losing. But when you look at the trend in general, you have to consider this factor.
I mean look at Yoda, a great player. But did the hell bat nerf hurt him, most likely. Is it JUST the nerf, of course not. But to say game balance has NOTHING to do with a player's performance is not correct either.
On February 06 2014 22:24 Ghanburighan wrote: [quote]
I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended.
The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race.
That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events.
So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well?
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course.
Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1.
Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big.
Come on, TOP was´nt that bad, he had some pretty good series and runs during his career.
It's debatable, I've seen TOP lose to low-tier European players in the past year or so.
Of course he isn't that good now. But during 2011 he was one of the (pun def. intended) TOP terran players, just below Mvp/MKP.
According to our Aligulac statistics, before his GSL August finals TOP was rated #28 in the world, and in the Terran roster he was eclipsed, in order of rating, by Mvp, PuMa, Bomber, MMA, GanZi, MarineKing, Strelok, Ryung, Kas, GoOdy, TheStC, TaeJa, GuMiHo, Polt and SuperNoVa. All of which good players, sure, but still...
You can find the stats here, once again this being 3 days before the GSL August 2011 finals.
I'd say that's more than comparable to Tear, Trust and Wooki. He won Code A, placed 3-4th in one GSL and second in another. Nothing amazing, but clearly solid results. Also the standard aligulac problems apply, playing EU cups etc (this includes everyone but jjakji, his numbers aren't high enough!!).
I don't think many would rate Tear/Trust/Wokki #28 in the world or higher. According to aligulac they're 57, 60 and 79 atm (did I do that right? :D)
On February 06 2014 22:24 Ghanburighan wrote: [quote]
I don't think the 'failed to deliver in the main tournament' has been the case for about six months now. If we look at this tournament, it's Parting and Sora again, who did well at previous events they attended.
The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race.
That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events.
So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well?
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course.
Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1.
Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big.
Come on, TOP was´nt that bad, he had some pretty good series and runs during his career.
It's debatable, I've seen TOP lose to low-tier European players in the past year or so.
Of course he isn't that good now. But during 2011 he was one of the (pun def. intended) TOP terran players, just below Mvp/MKP.
According to our Aligulac statistics, before his GSL August finals TOP was rated #28 in the world, and in the Terran roster he was eclipsed, in order of rating, by Mvp, PuMa, Bomber, MMA, GanZi, MarineKing, Strelok, Ryung, Kas, GoOdy, TheStC, TaeJa, GuMiHo, Polt and SuperNoVa. All of which good players, sure, but still...
You can find the stats here, once again this being 3 days before the GSL August 2011 finals.
Aligulac statistics has to be taken with a grain of salt especially in that era when international play wasn't common. Even now, players that get to play foreigners have a HUGE advantage on Aligulac. Or do you think Mvp is a top 10 player.
On February 06 2014 22:56 Tsubbi wrote: could anyone plz briefly summarize the parting vs soulkey games for those at work?
edit: of course I make this post right before Parting loses to speedlings walking into his base lol
Actually, this pic is still an accurate description. Parting slapped Soulkey down real easily in game 1, then Soulkey returned the favor in game 2. Hopefully game 3 is a little more back and forth!
On February 06 2014 22:33 Xoronius wrote: [quote] The fact, that it is PartinG and Sora again, should show you, that those two are consistent players, not just two random guys, who are there because of their race.
That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events.
So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well?
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course.
Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1.
Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big.
Come on, TOP was´nt that bad, he had some pretty good series and runs during his career.
It's debatable, I've seen TOP lose to low-tier European players in the past year or so.
Of course he isn't that good now. But during 2011 he was one of the (pun def. intended) TOP terran players, just below Mvp/MKP.
According to our Aligulac statistics, before his GSL August finals TOP was rated #28 in the world, and in the Terran roster he was eclipsed, in order of rating, by Mvp, PuMa, Bomber, MMA, GanZi, MarineKing, Strelok, Ryung, Kas, GoOdy, TheStC, TaeJa, GuMiHo, Polt and SuperNoVa. All of which good players, sure, but still...
You can find the stats here, once again this being 3 days before the GSL August 2011 finals.
I'd say that's more than comparable to Tear, Trust and Wooki. He won Code A, placed 3-4th in one GSL and second in another. Nothing amazing, but clearly solid results. Also the standard aligulac problems apply, playing EU cups etc (this includes everyone but jjakji, his numbers aren't high enough!!).
I don't think many would rate Tear/Trust/Wokki #28 in the world or higher. According to aligulac they're 57, 60 and 79 atm (did I do that right? :D)
I'll give you TOP, sure, but Ensnare and Virus were hardly Code S material at the time.
And there have been points in Tear's career where I would have easily rated him top 20, so why not.
On February 06 2014 22:56 Tsubbi wrote: could anyone plz briefly summarize the parting vs soulkey games for those at work?
edit: of course I make this post right before Parting loses to speedlings walking into his base lol
Actually, this pic is still an accurate description. Parting slapped Soulkey down real easily in game 1, then Soulkey returned the favor in game 2. Hopefully game 3 is a little more back and forth!
Can't get more back and forth than 2 manly men in their underwear trading blow for blow.
On February 06 2014 22:35 Ghanburighan wrote: [quote]
That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events.
So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well?
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course.
Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1.
Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big.
Come on, TOP was´nt that bad, he had some pretty good series and runs during his career.
It's debatable, I've seen TOP lose to low-tier European players in the past year or so.
Of course he isn't that good now. But during 2011 he was one of the (pun def. intended) TOP terran players, just below Mvp/MKP.
According to our Aligulac statistics, before his GSL August finals TOP was rated #28 in the world, and in the Terran roster he was eclipsed, in order of rating, by Mvp, PuMa, Bomber, MMA, GanZi, MarineKing, Strelok, Ryung, Kas, GoOdy, TheStC, TaeJa, GuMiHo, Polt and SuperNoVa. All of which good players, sure, but still...
You can find the stats here, once again this being 3 days before the GSL August 2011 finals.
I'd say that's more than comparable to Tear, Trust and Wooki. He won Code A, placed 3-4th in one GSL and second in another. Nothing amazing, but clearly solid results. Also the standard aligulac problems apply, playing EU cups etc (this includes everyone but jjakji, his numbers aren't high enough!!).
I don't think many would rate Tear/Trust/Wokki #28 in the world or higher. According to aligulac they're 57, 60 and 79 atm (did I do that right? :D)
I'll give you TOP, sure, but Ensnare and Virus were hardly Code S material at the time.
And there have been points in Tear's career where I would have easily rated him top 20, so why not.
On February 06 2014 22:56 Tsubbi wrote: could anyone plz briefly summarize the parting vs soulkey games for those at work?
Game 1 (Heavy Rain): Gateway expand with 2 gases for Parting into gateway and stargate in wall, oracle first. Soulkey hatch gas pool, gets 6 lings in to the main, doesn't do a lot of damage. Soulkey takes third, gets lair, hydra den, evo, infestation pit etc, Parting takes ~8 min third with sentries. Starts blink and kills Soulkeys 4th while Soulkey is building SHs and doesn't have enough to defend it. Parting gets some collosus up, both players move around a little with their armies, Parting takes a 4th, catches some SHs out of position, Soulkey ggs at equal supply.
Game 2(Yeonsu): Parting goes for a quick gateway and chronos out a zealot then expands. Soulkey hatch first. The zealot gets into the main mineral line before lings are out, gets 2 drone kills. Since Parting expanded before cyber core he only has a zealot for defense and his wall is late so Soulkey makes a lot of lings and kills natural and some probes, is way ahead. Parting retakes natural with some sentries, tries to do some damage with force fields etc but is just too far behind and dies to Soulkey's roach ling attack.
On February 06 2014 22:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote: [quote]
So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well?
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course.
Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1.
Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big.
Come on, TOP was´nt that bad, he had some pretty good series and runs during his career.
It's debatable, I've seen TOP lose to low-tier European players in the past year or so.
Of course he isn't that good now. But during 2011 he was one of the (pun def. intended) TOP terran players, just below Mvp/MKP.
According to our Aligulac statistics, before his GSL August finals TOP was rated #28 in the world, and in the Terran roster he was eclipsed, in order of rating, by Mvp, PuMa, Bomber, MMA, GanZi, MarineKing, Strelok, Ryung, Kas, GoOdy, TheStC, TaeJa, GuMiHo, Polt and SuperNoVa. All of which good players, sure, but still...
You can find the stats here, once again this being 3 days before the GSL August 2011 finals.
I'd say that's more than comparable to Tear, Trust and Wooki. He won Code A, placed 3-4th in one GSL and second in another. Nothing amazing, but clearly solid results. Also the standard aligulac problems apply, playing EU cups etc (this includes everyone but jjakji, his numbers aren't high enough!!).
I don't think many would rate Tear/Trust/Wokki #28 in the world or higher. According to aligulac they're 57, 60 and 79 atm (did I do that right? :D)
I'll give you TOP, sure, but Ensnare and Virus were hardly Code S material at the time.
And there have been points in Tear's career where I would have easily rated him top 20, so why not.
So I win?! ♥
I have no qualms with TOP like I do with, say, people overrating NesTea, so sure.
On February 06 2014 22:35 Ghanburighan wrote: [quote]
That's exactly what I was saying - the same guys who do well in these qualifiers are the same that do well in Premier events, but MoP was trying to argue that they result of the qualifier is somehow non-representative of current balance because P does worse in offline main events.
So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well?
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course.
Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1.
Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big.
Come on, TOP was´nt that bad, he had some pretty good series and runs during his career.
It's debatable, I've seen TOP lose to low-tier European players in the past year or so.
Of course he isn't that good now. But during 2011 he was one of the (pun def. intended) TOP terran players, just below Mvp/MKP.
According to our Aligulac statistics, before his GSL August finals TOP was rated #28 in the world, and in the Terran roster he was eclipsed, in order of rating, by Mvp, PuMa, Bomber, MMA, GanZi, MarineKing, Strelok, Ryung, Kas, GoOdy, TheStC, TaeJa, GuMiHo, Polt and SuperNoVa. All of which good players, sure, but still...
You can find the stats here, once again this being 3 days before the GSL August 2011 finals.
I'd say that's more than comparable to Tear, Trust and Wooki. He won Code A, placed 3-4th in one GSL and second in another. Nothing amazing, but clearly solid results. Also the standard aligulac problems apply, playing EU cups etc (this includes everyone but jjakji, his numbers aren't high enough!!).
I don't think many would rate Tear/Trust/Wokki #28 in the world or higher. According to aligulac they're 57, 60 and 79 atm (did I do that right? :D)
I'll give you TOP, sure, but Ensnare and Virus were hardly Code S material at the time.
And there have been points in Tear's career where I would have easily rated him top 20, so why not.
Ensnare and Virus were ro32 quality players at the time. Let's not forget that for those T's we had protosses like killer and tester and zergs like zenio fruitdealer and cezanne still hanging around who were all about equally terrible at the time.
On February 06 2014 22:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote: [quote]
So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well?
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course.
Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1.
Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big.
Come on, TOP was´nt that bad, he had some pretty good series and runs during his career.
It's debatable, I've seen TOP lose to low-tier European players in the past year or so.
Of course he isn't that good now. But during 2011 he was one of the (pun def. intended) TOP terran players, just below Mvp/MKP.
According to our Aligulac statistics, before his GSL August finals TOP was rated #28 in the world, and in the Terran roster he was eclipsed, in order of rating, by Mvp, PuMa, Bomber, MMA, GanZi, MarineKing, Strelok, Ryung, Kas, GoOdy, TheStC, TaeJa, GuMiHo, Polt and SuperNoVa. All of which good players, sure, but still...
You can find the stats here, once again this being 3 days before the GSL August 2011 finals.
I'd say that's more than comparable to Tear, Trust and Wooki. He won Code A, placed 3-4th in one GSL and second in another. Nothing amazing, but clearly solid results. Also the standard aligulac problems apply, playing EU cups etc (this includes everyone but jjakji, his numbers aren't high enough!!).
I don't think many would rate Tear/Trust/Wokki #28 in the world or higher. According to aligulac they're 57, 60 and 79 atm (did I do that right? :D)
I'll give you TOP, sure, but Ensnare and Virus were hardly Code S material at the time.
And there have been points in Tear's career where I would have easily rated him top 20, so why not.
Ensnare and Virus were ro32 quality players at the time. Let's not forget that for those T's we had protosses like killer and tester and zergs like zenio fruitdealer and cezanne still hanging around who were all about equally terrible at the time.
I guess that's what MOP means by the flawed Code S system. Should've been other players in their place.
On February 06 2014 22:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote: [quote]
So how is Protoss overpowered if it's only the already-established GOOD players who are doing well?
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course.
Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1.
Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big.
Come on, TOP was´nt that bad, he had some pretty good series and runs during his career.
It's debatable, I've seen TOP lose to low-tier European players in the past year or so.
Of course he isn't that good now. But during 2011 he was one of the (pun def. intended) TOP terran players, just below Mvp/MKP.
According to our Aligulac statistics, before his GSL August finals TOP was rated #28 in the world, and in the Terran roster he was eclipsed, in order of rating, by Mvp, PuMa, Bomber, MMA, GanZi, MarineKing, Strelok, Ryung, Kas, GoOdy, TheStC, TaeJa, GuMiHo, Polt and SuperNoVa. All of which good players, sure, but still...
You can find the stats here, once again this being 3 days before the GSL August 2011 finals.
I'd say that's more than comparable to Tear, Trust and Wooki. He won Code A, placed 3-4th in one GSL and second in another. Nothing amazing, but clearly solid results. Also the standard aligulac problems apply, playing EU cups etc (this includes everyone but jjakji, his numbers aren't high enough!!).
I don't think many would rate Tear/Trust/Wokki #28 in the world or higher. According to aligulac they're 57, 60 and 79 atm (did I do that right? :D)
I'll give you TOP, sure, but Ensnare and Virus were hardly Code S material at the time.
And there have been points in Tear's career where I would have easily rated him top 20, so why not.
Ensnare and Virus were ro32 quality players at the time. Let's not forget that for those T's we had protosses like killer and tester and zergs like zenio fruitdealer and cezanne still hanging around who were all about equally terrible at the time.
The fact that they were in Ro32 does not mean they belonged there. Same goes for SangHo, TesteR, Zenio, FruitDealer, Cezanne and any others there were in that period of time. The player-cycling system between Code A and Code S was just abysmal until the November season and it showed in the player pool.
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course.
Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1.
Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big.
Come on, TOP was´nt that bad, he had some pretty good series and runs during his career.
It's debatable, I've seen TOP lose to low-tier European players in the past year or so.
Of course he isn't that good now. But during 2011 he was one of the (pun def. intended) TOP terran players, just below Mvp/MKP.
According to our Aligulac statistics, before his GSL August finals TOP was rated #28 in the world, and in the Terran roster he was eclipsed, in order of rating, by Mvp, PuMa, Bomber, MMA, GanZi, MarineKing, Strelok, Ryung, Kas, GoOdy, TheStC, TaeJa, GuMiHo, Polt and SuperNoVa. All of which good players, sure, but still...
You can find the stats here, once again this being 3 days before the GSL August 2011 finals.
I'd say that's more than comparable to Tear, Trust and Wooki. He won Code A, placed 3-4th in one GSL and second in another. Nothing amazing, but clearly solid results. Also the standard aligulac problems apply, playing EU cups etc (this includes everyone but jjakji, his numbers aren't high enough!!).
I don't think many would rate Tear/Trust/Wokki #28 in the world or higher. According to aligulac they're 57, 60 and 79 atm (did I do that right? :D)
I'll give you TOP, sure, but Ensnare and Virus were hardly Code S material at the time.
And there have been points in Tear's career where I would have easily rated him top 20, so why not.
Ensnare and Virus were ro32 quality players at the time. Let's not forget that for those T's we had protosses like killer and tester and zergs like zenio fruitdealer and cezanne still hanging around who were all about equally terrible at the time.
I guess that's what MOP means by the flawed Code S system. Should've been other players in their place.
Pigbaby, Hurricane, Trust, Zest, Paralyze all made Ro16. Are they BAD players? Of course not. But does P's current strength help them get a bit further in brackets? Of course.
Just like guys like IMHappy, TOP, Ensnare, Virus probably wouldn't have done as well if not for 1-1-1.
Tear, Trust and Wooki have all had their share of success in the past. They are in no way, shape or form comparable to players like TOP, Ensnare and Virus. If anything the reason those players remained in Code S was because of the abysmal system rather than race imbalance. If GSL back then worked like it does now, I assure you Happy would've been the only of those you mentioned still in Code S when the 1-1-1 trend got big.
Come on, TOP was´nt that bad, he had some pretty good series and runs during his career.
It's debatable, I've seen TOP lose to low-tier European players in the past year or so.
Of course he isn't that good now. But during 2011 he was one of the (pun def. intended) TOP terran players, just below Mvp/MKP.
According to our Aligulac statistics, before his GSL August finals TOP was rated #28 in the world, and in the Terran roster he was eclipsed, in order of rating, by Mvp, PuMa, Bomber, MMA, GanZi, MarineKing, Strelok, Ryung, Kas, GoOdy, TheStC, TaeJa, GuMiHo, Polt and SuperNoVa. All of which good players, sure, but still...
You can find the stats here, once again this being 3 days before the GSL August 2011 finals.
I'd say that's more than comparable to Tear, Trust and Wooki. He won Code A, placed 3-4th in one GSL and second in another. Nothing amazing, but clearly solid results. Also the standard aligulac problems apply, playing EU cups etc (this includes everyone but jjakji, his numbers aren't high enough!!).
I don't think many would rate Tear/Trust/Wokki #28 in the world or higher. According to aligulac they're 57, 60 and 79 atm (did I do that right? :D)
I'll give you TOP, sure, but Ensnare and Virus were hardly Code S material at the time.
And there have been points in Tear's career where I would have easily rated him top 20, so why not.
So I win?! ♥
I have no qualms with TOP like I do with, say, people overrating NesTea, so sure.
Must resist the urge... It´s ok, for today your my ally for the anti-balance-whine discussion.
On February 06 2014 23:19 DJHelium wrote: When HE CHEATS AND CHANGES GAME SPEED EVERYONE KNOWS HE DID IT, Parting has the scariest play in the world. So decisive all the time. Really cool to see.
I don't get the point of this play. Don't we know that it doesn't matter if you herass the SH player? In the end you have to kill his army and the longer you wait the harder it gets.
On February 06 2014 23:20 CruelZeratul wrote: I don't get the point of this play. Don't we know that it doesn't matter if you herass the SH player? In the end you have to kill his army and the longer you wait the harder it gets.
On February 06 2014 23:20 CruelZeratul wrote: I don't get the point of this play. Don't we know that it doesn't matter if you herass the SH player? In the end you have to kill his army and the longer you wait the harder it gets.
No, it's the opposite of what you said O.o
To be fair, it's very map dependent. On some maps you might as well YOLO and go for it before all the static def is in place. Frost is definitely a place where you can play it out in a longer game though.
On February 06 2014 23:20 CruelZeratul wrote: I don't get the point of this play. Don't we know that it doesn't matter if you herass the SH player? In the end you have to kill his army and the longer you wait the harder it gets.
No, it's the opposite of what you said O.o
To be fair, it's very map dependent. On some maps you might as well YOLO and go for it before all the static def is in place. Frost is definitely a place where you can play it out in a longer game though.
I think it's either a matter of timing where you get 4 or 6 colossus and attempt to just roll the SH player before they can get out of hand, or you harass them while transitioning.
On February 06 2014 23:26 Heartland wrote: Parting should get rid of his six sentries. Pretty useless right now
I'll take your word for it because I don't really know but aren't guardian shields worth it?
He could save one for that I guess. But usually you don't see it used in late game army scenarios. Dunno if it is because it is hard to control or because it's better to have 2 supply more of an HT or something
On February 06 2014 23:28 Undead1993 wrote: man every zerg should watch catz's stream. his tip is "Corrupters: Don't build them!"
That is quite a bad tip, because there isn't anything else that can effectively kill Voids, Colossi and Tempests.
On February 06 2014 23:30 Doublemint wrote:
On February 06 2014 23:29 Darkhoarse wrote:
On February 06 2014 23:29 massivez wrote: This Parting bias ffs...
Well Apollo clearly hates swarm hosts haha
Everybody hates swarmhosts.
Nope.
that's the problem with the zerg lataegame atm imo, and corrupter can't kill effectively voids whatsoever.
Zerg lategame problem? Are you watching this? Getting shut down economically the whole game long and still win the big fight handily? There is no Zerg lategame problem in PvZ.
On February 06 2014 23:34 Darkhoarse wrote: Parting did the best he could with his templar there feedbacking queens and storming everything, but he was not in a good position to fight.
Yeah, that was about the worst case scenario for him to engage T_T
He might pull this off with the mass void ray though, omg
On February 06 2014 23:32 Mozdk wrote: Kill 55 drones in 15 mins... And still takes hours to win vs this crap. If he even wins.
It doesn't matter if you killed 100 drones when the Zerg had the economy going, he just replenished them. And btw, Parting didn't do anything when he killed those 50 drones because he had weaker army because of those constant drops.
Game 3 (Frost): Soulkey bottom left, Parting top right. 3hatch before pool vs gateway expand 2 gases. Parting hides forge in main then walls off with 2 more gateways. Soulkey sees Parting's probe which might want to drop a pylon for pressure, builds some lings and a RW. Parting takes 7 min third with like 5 sentries. Soulkey gets double evos for melee upgrades. Blink, DT shrine, robo for Parting. 4th, spire, infestation pit, +2/+2 for Soulkey.
DTs kills ~25 workers, Soulkey makes a few mutas then SHs. Soulkey plays aggro with SHs, but Parting kills like 25 more workers with warp prism. Turns into macro game with stalker/collosus/sentry/templar/tempest/vooid ray vs corruptor/SH/ling/BL, slow expanding cause Frost. One big engagement where Soulkey has like a 180 degrees surround and Parting doesn't control his army at all so tempest attacking corruptors etc, protoss army dies. Parting makes tons of void rays, move commands them into mutalisks, gg.
wow only one qualifies? that's tough they are playing like the whole day, and only one gets the spot, then again the actual tournament gives only money to one. that makes sense then :D
On February 06 2014 23:39 Undead1993 wrote: wow only one qualifies? that's tough they are playing like the whole day, and only one gets the spot, then again the actual tournament gives only money to one. that makes sense then :D
On February 06 2014 23:39 Fjodorov wrote: Poor Rogue gets no attention :o He must be playing really good to be here in the finals, although I guess SK had the rougher path
Ryul2 beat Stormz (Aussie Zerg), CranK, by.Sun, Sacsri, Wooki and Sora, I'd say that's not exactly a shabby path. SoulKey went through eMotion, Bogus, EffOrt, Bbyong and now PartinG. Both had great runs imo.
On February 06 2014 23:37 Destructicon wrote: Damn, that game could very well have been the final game of a finals of a premier tournament.
You can say that about every korean qualifier.
That bothers me, the Korean IEM quals are an absolutely brutal gauntlet of world class players with line ups that would not at all be out of place at a WCS season final or DH Winter, and a bunch of people who would handily crush the players qualifying from EU and NA are knocked out before the tournament even begins.
Call me an elitist, but I'd rather see TY and Innovation over Desrow and Snute.
On February 06 2014 23:37 Destructicon wrote: Damn, that game could very well have been the final game of a finals of a premier tournament.
You can say that about every korean qualifier.
That bothers me, the Korean IEM quals are an absolutely brutal gauntlet of world class players with line ups that would not at all be out of place at a WCS season final or DH Winter, and a bunch of people who would handily crush the players qualifying from EU and NA are knocked out before the tournament even begins.
Call me an elitist, but I'd rather see TY and Innovation over Desrow and Snute.
Yeah it's pretty sad, and the Korean scene doesn't really have online tournaments anymore for these players to compete in either...
Although I will contest one thing, that being that comparing Snute to desRow is rather harsh and unfair. For better or for worse, Snute is one of the best zergs outside Korea and has been that for a while.
On February 06 2014 23:37 Destructicon wrote: Damn, that game could very well have been the final game of a finals of a premier tournament.
You can say that about every korean qualifier.
That bothers me, the Korean IEM quals are an absolutely brutal gauntlet of world class players with line ups that would not at all be out of place at a WCS season final or DH Winter, and a bunch of people who would handily crush the players qualifying from EU and NA are knocked out before the tournament even begins.
Call me an elitist, but I'd rather see TY and Innovation over Desrow and Snute.
I think quite a few TL'ers do. However, we can't argue that just the hardcore/korean fans wouldn't be able to support that many players or SC2 pro scene at all. You can tell by the stream numbers when foreigners get deep into a tournament. So I am ok with a balance between the 2.
On February 06 2014 23:37 Destructicon wrote: Damn, that game could very well have been the final game of a finals of a premier tournament.
You can say that about every korean qualifier.
That bothers me, the Korean IEM quals are an absolutely brutal gauntlet of world class players with line ups that would not at all be out of place at a WCS season final or DH Winter, and a bunch of people who would handily crush the players qualifying from EU and NA are knocked out before the tournament even begins.
Call me an elitist, but I'd rather see TY and Innovation over Desrow and Snute.
well, Korean players can also just sign-up for the EU and NA qualifiers this time. They only have to deal with the lag and the time zone difference but they can still do it
On February 06 2014 23:37 Destructicon wrote: Damn, that game could very well have been the final game of a finals of a premier tournament.
You can say that about every korean qualifier.
That bothers me, the Korean IEM quals are an absolutely brutal gauntlet of world class players with line ups that would not at all be out of place at a WCS season final or DH Winter, and a bunch of people who would handily crush the players qualifying from EU and NA are knocked out before the tournament even begins.
Call me an elitist, but I'd rather see TY and Innovation over Desrow and Snute.
well, Korean players can also just sign-up for the EU and NA qualifiers this time. They only have to deal with the lag and the time zone difference but they can still do it
Yes, but IEM only pays for airfare from the region which the qualifer is won. IE NA/SA to Katowice and EU to Katowice. So players/teams would have to pony up the extra cost. And since the payout is winner takes all, it is a pretty big risk. I guess some of the richer players/teams can do it but definitely not a lot of the koreans will try.
On February 06 2014 23:37 Destructicon wrote: Damn, that game could very well have been the final game of a finals of a premier tournament.
You can say that about every korean qualifier.
That bothers me, the Korean IEM quals are an absolutely brutal gauntlet of world class players with line ups that would not at all be out of place at a WCS season final or DH Winter, and a bunch of people who would handily crush the players qualifying from EU and NA are knocked out before the tournament even begins.
Call me an elitist, but I'd rather see TY and Innovation over Desrow and Snute.
well, Korean players can also just sign-up for the EU and NA qualifiers this time. They only have to deal with the lag and the time zone difference but they can still do it
Yes, but IEM only pays for airfare from the region which the qualifer is won. IE NA/SA to Katowice and EU to Katowice. So players/teams would have to pony up the extra cost. And since the payout is winner takes all, it is a pretty big risk. I guess some of the richer players/teams can do it but definitely not a lot of the koreans will try.
That is false, its not specified. All its saying is "Hotel and flight costs are paid for in full by ESL"
On February 06 2014 23:37 Destructicon wrote: Damn, that game could very well have been the final game of a finals of a premier tournament.
You can say that about every korean qualifier.
That bothers me, the Korean IEM quals are an absolutely brutal gauntlet of world class players with line ups that would not at all be out of place at a WCS season final or DH Winter, and a bunch of people who would handily crush the players qualifying from EU and NA are knocked out before the tournament even begins.
Call me an elitist, but I'd rather see TY and Innovation over Desrow and Snute.
well, Korean players can also just sign-up for the EU and NA qualifiers this time. They only have to deal with the lag and the time zone difference but they can still do it
Yes, but IEM only pays for airfare from the region which the qualifer is won. IE NA/SA to Katowice and EU to Katowice. So players/teams would have to pony up the extra cost. And since the payout is winner takes all, it is a pretty big risk. I guess some of the richer players/teams can do it but definitely not a lot of the koreans will try.
I thought that at first as well but as NovaMB pointed out: there is no proof for that. On the official page it says that winners' recieve a full expenses paid trip
They would/should have definitely said it in this announcement if it was not full expenses paid. But they didn't so I guess it is all expenses paid no matter where the players come from
On February 06 2014 23:37 Destructicon wrote: Damn, that game could very well have been the final game of a finals of a premier tournament.
You can say that about every korean qualifier.
That bothers me, the Korean IEM quals are an absolutely brutal gauntlet of world class players with line ups that would not at all be out of place at a WCS season final or DH Winter, and a bunch of people who would handily crush the players qualifying from EU and NA are knocked out before the tournament even begins.
Call me an elitist, but I'd rather see TY and Innovation over Desrow and Snute.
well, Korean players can also just sign-up for the EU and NA qualifiers this time. They only have to deal with the lag and the time zone difference but they can still do it
Yes, but IEM only pays for airfare from the region which the qualifer is won. IE NA/SA to Katowice and EU to Katowice. So players/teams would have to pony up the extra cost. And since the payout is winner takes all, it is a pretty big risk. I guess some of the richer players/teams can do it but definitely not a lot of the koreans will try.
I thought that at first as well but as NovaMB pointed out: there is no proof for that. On the official page it says that winners' recieve a full expenses paid trip
They would/should have definitely said it in this announcement if it was not full expenses paid. But they didn't so I guess it is all expenses paid no matter where the players come from
The six remaining places will be decided through a series of invites and open qualifiers with more information on the specifics coming in near future. All qualified players will have their flights and hotel paid for.
On February 06 2014 23:56 Squat wrote: If Roro wins it all I can die happy.
That's good because Zealously might actually kill you.
Roro is legitimately one of the best zergs in the world, top 5 easy, probably top 3. I think his games are generally pretty good. I mostly cheer for him because everyone else seems to hate him for some reason.
On February 06 2014 23:56 Squat wrote: If Roro wins it all I can die happy.
That's good because Zealously might actually kill you.
Roro is legitimately one of the best zergs in the world, top 5 easy, probably top 3. I think his games are generally pretty good. I mostly cheer for him because everyone else seems to hate him for some reason.
It makes no sense either, I mean most people here nowadays are probably too new to know what Bisu losing to him meant and harbor that grudge. :s
RorO's good agreed, I wish he were a bit more consistent with his results though.
On February 06 2014 23:56 Squat wrote: If Roro wins it all I can die happy.
That's good because Zealously might actually kill you.
Roro is legitimately one of the best zergs in the world, top 5 easy, probably top 3. I think his games are generally pretty good. I mostly cheer for him because everyone else seems to hate him for some reason.
It makes no sense either, I mean most people here nowadays are probably too new to know what Bisu losing to him meant and harbor that grudge. :s
RorO's good agreed, I wish he were a bit more consistent with his results though.
I don't think Bisu has anything to do with the, ah, feelings most people have for Roro on TL any more
On February 06 2014 23:56 Squat wrote: If Roro wins it all I can die happy.
That's good because Zealously might actually kill you.
Roro is legitimately one of the best zergs in the world, top 5 easy, probably top 3. I think his games are generally pretty good. I mostly cheer for him because everyone else seems to hate him for some reason.
It makes no sense either, I mean most people here nowadays are probably too new to know what Bisu losing to him meant and harbor that grudge. :s
RorO's good agreed, I wish he were a bit more consistent with his results though.
I don't think Bisu has anything to do with the, ah, feelings most people have for Roro on TL any more
Which is why I personally don't get the hate but w/e.
On February 06 2014 23:56 Squat wrote: If Roro wins it all I can die happy.
That's good because Zealously might actually kill you.
Roro is legitimately one of the best zergs in the world, top 5 easy, probably top 3. I think his games are generally pretty good. I mostly cheer for him because everyone else seems to hate him for some reason.
It makes no sense either, I mean most people here nowadays are probably too new to know what Bisu losing to him meant and harbor that grudge. :s
RorO's good agreed, I wish he were a bit more consistent with his results though.
I don't think Bisu has anything to do with the, ah, feelings most people have for Roro on TL any more
Which is why I personally don't get the hate but w/e.
Let's not kid ourselves. It's entirely because Zealously's feelings for RorO are so extreme and Zealously is such a high-profile, high-influence user on TL.
Ok, I went for a lunch after the semi, thinking there wouldn't be much to watch in the finals, I come back and it's 0-2 for SoulKey. Could anybody please explain to me, what the fcuk happened?
On February 07 2014 00:11 Ufnal wrote: Ok, I went for a lunch after the semi, thinking there wouldn't be much to watch in the finals, I come back and it's 0-2 for SoulKey. Could anybody please explain to me, what the fcuk happened?
On February 06 2014 23:56 Squat wrote: If Roro wins it all I can die happy.
That's good because Zealously might actually kill you.
Roro is legitimately one of the best zergs in the world, top 5 easy, probably top 3. I think his games are generally pretty good. I mostly cheer for him because everyone else seems to hate him for some reason.
It makes no sense either, I mean most people here nowadays are probably too new to know what Bisu losing to him meant and harbor that grudge. :s
RorO's good agreed, I wish he were a bit more consistent with his results though.
I don't think Bisu has anything to do with the, ah, feelings most people have for Roro on TL any more
Which is why I personally don't get the hate but w/e.
On February 06 2014 23:56 Squat wrote: If Roro wins it all I can die happy.
That's good because Zealously might actually kill you.
Roro is legitimately one of the best zergs in the world, top 5 easy, probably top 3. I think his games are generally pretty good. I mostly cheer for him because everyone else seems to hate him for some reason.
It makes no sense either, I mean most people here nowadays are probably too new to know what Bisu losing to him meant and harbor that grudge. :s
RorO's good agreed, I wish he were a bit more consistent with his results though.
I don't think Bisu has anything to do with the, ah, feelings most people have for Roro on TL any more
On February 06 2014 23:56 Squat wrote: If Roro wins it all I can die happy.
That's good because Zealously might actually kill you.
Roro is legitimately one of the best zergs in the world, top 5 easy, probably top 3. I think his games are generally pretty good. I mostly cheer for him because everyone else seems to hate him for some reason.
It makes no sense either, I mean most people here nowadays are probably too new to know what Bisu losing to him meant and harbor that grudge. :s
RorO's good agreed, I wish he were a bit more consistent with his results though.
I don't think Bisu has anything to do with the, ah, feelings most people have for Roro on TL any more
Bisu is 2-1 RorO in SC2 and 6-1 in BW.
How the hell can you guys mix up RorO and Shine?
Wait didn't RorO also knock Bisu out? I mean Shine's obvious but I thought there was another Zerg too and that was RorO. :S
On February 06 2014 23:56 Squat wrote: If Roro wins it all I can die happy.
That's good because Zealously might actually kill you.
Roro is legitimately one of the best zergs in the world, top 5 easy, probably top 3. I think his games are generally pretty good. I mostly cheer for him because everyone else seems to hate him for some reason.
It makes no sense either, I mean most people here nowadays are probably too new to know what Bisu losing to him meant and harbor that grudge. :s
RorO's good agreed, I wish he were a bit more consistent with his results though.
I don't think Bisu has anything to do with the, ah, feelings most people have for Roro on TL any more
Bisu is 2-1 RorO in SC2 and 6-1 in BW.
How the hell can you guys mix up RorO and Shine?
Wait didn't RorO also knock Bisu out? I mean Shine's obvious but I thought there was another Zerg too and that was RorO. :S
I don't really remember but he did beat Bisu in that one sick proleague game.
On February 06 2014 23:56 Squat wrote: If Roro wins it all I can die happy.
That's good because Zealously might actually kill you.
Roro is legitimately one of the best zergs in the world, top 5 easy, probably top 3. I think his games are generally pretty good. I mostly cheer for him because everyone else seems to hate him for some reason.
It makes no sense either, I mean most people here nowadays are probably too new to know what Bisu losing to him meant and harbor that grudge. :s
RorO's good agreed, I wish he were a bit more consistent with his results though.
I don't think Bisu has anything to do with the, ah, feelings most people have for Roro on TL any more
Bisu is 2-1 RorO in SC2 and 6-1 in BW.
How the hell can you guys mix up RorO and Shine?
I may be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure Roro beat Bisu in some pretty high-stakes game. Might've been an important Proleague game or something?
FINALLY! I've never understood why people don't do this all in more given how greedy every gasless player plays without wall etc. Good to see their builds not being safe.
On February 06 2014 23:56 Squat wrote: If Roro wins it all I can die happy.
That's good because Zealously might actually kill you.
Roro is legitimately one of the best zergs in the world, top 5 easy, probably top 3. I think his games are generally pretty good. I mostly cheer for him because everyone else seems to hate him for some reason.
It makes no sense either, I mean most people here nowadays are probably too new to know what Bisu losing to him meant and harbor that grudge. :s
RorO's good agreed, I wish he were a bit more consistent with his results though.
I don't think Bisu has anything to do with the, ah, feelings most people have for Roro on TL any more
Bisu is 2-1 RorO in SC2 and 6-1 in BW.
How the hell can you guys mix up RorO and Shine?
I may be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure Roro beat Bisu in some pretty high-stakes game. Might've been an important Proleague game or something?
Nope. RorO only beat Bisu twice; once in the circuit breaker game where SKT reverse sweeped WMF, and another time in the hybrid proleague where SKT won anyway.
On February 06 2014 23:56 Squat wrote: If Roro wins it all I can die happy.
That's good because Zealously might actually kill you.
Roro is legitimately one of the best zergs in the world, top 5 easy, probably top 3. I think his games are generally pretty good. I mostly cheer for him because everyone else seems to hate him for some reason.
It makes no sense either, I mean most people here nowadays are probably too new to know what Bisu losing to him meant and harbor that grudge. :s
RorO's good agreed, I wish he were a bit more consistent with his results though.
I don't think Bisu has anything to do with the, ah, feelings most people have for Roro on TL any more
Bisu is 2-1 RorO in SC2 and 6-1 in BW.
How the hell can you guys mix up RorO and Shine?
I may be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure Roro beat Bisu in some pretty high-stakes game. Might've been an important Proleague game or something?
Nope. RorO only beat Bisu twice; once in the circuit breaker game where SKT reverse sweeped WMF, and another time in the hybrid proleague where SKT won anyway.
Well fuck I don't know then.
Thanks for clearing that up though, no idea why I had this deeply rooted in my mind. :s
On February 07 2014 00:31 Shinta) wrote: Rogue and his handsome self giving a preview for SPL around 1 Playoffs. 3 dead SKT players (ace players included) and 1 KT down.
Prepare for a massacre!
He'll probably just get sniped by a terran. It's a great run but he was still lucky to completely avoid his weakest mu.
Hydra should have taken out Parting . Typical Hydra game - get as far ahead as possible that it looks like you can't lose , make the worst engagement in history and claim the throw of the year . It looks like Hydra at some point just gives up trying and a - moves and loses . Happens often nowadays ...
On February 07 2014 00:31 Shinta) wrote: Rogue and his handsome self giving a preview for SPL around 1 Playoffs. 3 dead SKT players (ace players included) and 1 KT down.
Prepare for a massacre!
He'll probably just get sniped by a terran. It's a great run but he was still lucky to completely avoid his weakest mu.
Probably, but let's not forget what intense practice and study can do to a player's performance sometimes. For instance san, who got 4-0d by Squirtle, then lost to Jim and HerO and then also to StarDust in day 1 of Assembly, but he studies it well enough to go 3-0 and 4-0 in the semis and final and then also 3-0 vs elfi.
It's possible is all I'm saying, and Ryul2 has proven himself as a good player. We'll see. :/
Hydra should have taken out Parting . Typical Hydra game - get as far ahead as possible that it looks like you can't lose , make the worst engagement in history and claim the throw of the year . It looks like Hydra at some point just gives up trying and a - moves and loses . Happens often nowadays ...
On February 07 2014 06:06 Morbidius wrote: I went to sleep expecting the easy SK win after he beat Parting, i sat my tea when i saw the results.
To be honest, I thought also that he will win it, but since it was ZvZ I expected this kind of result. Remember last time his result against SoO(I think it was SoO)? He also got destroyed.
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IEM Season VIII - World Championship Katowice -
Sorry on PoisonTV stream
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CJBunny
gamja right? Naruto said so at least but the bracket is still not updated
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