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On January 02 2014 00:13 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 00:07 z0rz wrote:On January 02 2014 00:06 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 00:05 z0rz wrote:On January 01 2014 23:53 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 01 2014 23:29 fams wrote:By donating to HyuN, you are perpetuating a system that allows unscrupulous managers/organizations to take advantage of uneducated players. EXACTLY. The community needs to WAKE UP. Stop indulging in this feel-good crap. This isn't what we should be doing, even though it's "nice" to do. Do you guys even know what this is about? HyuN is considering retiring after this fiasco. This isn't about the money; it's about reaching out to someone who poured his heart and soul into something and got screwed over for it in the end. Doing this in no way perpetuates the corrupt system. If the funds were somehow going back to Quantic or another corrupt team/owner, you'd have a point. This is just a sign of gratitude/appreciation for a beloved progamer, and by sharing this story and making it a big deal, we are effectively spreading the word and hopefully informing aspiring progamers on the potential pitfalls of their career path and ways they can protect themselves. "Professional athletes," as you refer to, have player unions and lawyers/managers to protect them. You can say the progamers are at fault for being naive and putting themselves in a position where they can be taken advantage of, but by saying that you're letting the shady organizations off the hook. Until a legit union is established, this is the best we can really do: support the players that we love and spread the word to prevent someone like Simon from continuing to exist in the industry and to hopefully inform other players of the possibilities. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this gesture. It's a get out of jail free card for Quantic. If we just give Hyun money, then Quantic's actions will be forgotten until the next time a scam comes up. The correct course of action is pursuing Simon/Quantic. Because you can't do both? No one here is talking about doing both. They just want Hyun to get some money. After that, all will be forgiven with Quantic. Then another Quantic scam will come up. It's just stupid.
Like I, and many others, have said: this will continue to happen without some sort of governing body or union to protect the players. Personally supporting the players that get screwed over doesn't make it any more or less likely for future players to get screwed over, so what's the fucking problem? If you want to help, help. If not, that's cool. Nobody is forced to participate in this. More importantly, no damage is being done by helping HyuN (unless he joined another corrupt team and fell for the same shit repeatedly etc).
If anything, a grassroots campaign like this could gain a lot of traction and reach more people than you'd ever expect. And, like I said, that would spread the message and potentially inform new players of ways to protect themselves with contracts to prevent this from happening again.
What are YOU doing to fix this?
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#SaveTheHyun
Great initiative
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On January 01 2014 23:29 fams wrote:
I posted this on Reddit, Ill just post it again here:
Not to be a Grinch or anything here, but I really think this is a bad idea.
Many players throughout eSports' history are owed money. Staff too. Many of them are owed a lot more money than HyuN here. I do not think people should donate to HyuN simply because he is the latest case.
Presumably, HyuN has a contract with Quantic, one he should have taken action on during those months where he wasn't being paid. Obviously, Quantic did not fulfill their side of the agreement, and HyuN should have taken action during the first sight of trouble, not now months later after Simon has "disappeared". What HyuN should be doing is contacting a lawyer and following the proper channels, not allowing the community to donate and let this situation continue.
By donating to HyuN, you are perpetuating a system that allows unscrupulous managers/organizations to take advantage of uneducated players.
My sincere advice is for players who start earning money, to find themselves a personal manager with some experience. Andrew Tomlinson is one such manager, he works with viOlet and Polt. You should also get a financial advisor.
Also, for players who are in similar situations or might face a similar situation, do not wait until months after you are owed money, and you lose contact to the person who owes you said money to say something. Talk to people in the scene, there are friendly people with experience dealing with these matters who I am sure would be willing to at least give you some direction as to how to take action for yourself. At the very least, tell someone, even if it is a news outlet. Yeah it might sound like a bad situation, but the end result is one like this where HyuN is owed a significant amount of money, much like other notable professional players.
I just hope this HyuN situation is a wake-up call for other players: You are not children, you are "professional athletes" for all intents and purposes. This is your career, you should take an active role in managing it. Hire a manager and financial advisor. These are not insignificant amounts of money you are earning. Treating your career like a pastime and letting other people who do not have your best interests at heart, is a stupid idea, and this is what results of that. Wake up.
HyuN should have kicked up a fuss earlier, but looking at it from his perspective I can totally understand why he didn't. He was being given false assurances all the way through and he did receive some money, so he had reason to believe that he would receive the rest and he would certainly have wanted to believe it.
He would also want to avoid the public spectacle of a conflict with his team and the hassle of having to find another team. He was busy practicing and traveling to tournaments and would want to focus on that. Don't forget there is a language (and distance) barrier as well, which makes it harder to tell whether the excuses he was being given were genuine or not.
I doubt the legal route will be worthwhile, as the sum in dispute is quite small and lawyers are expensive. The cost of instructing lawyers and going to court could be more than he would recover even assuming that the team manager has the money to pay what the court awards, which I doubt. However, he should at least contact a lawyer to see what they think (if his English is even good enough to discuss it with them).
Either way, I can't see what possible harm can come from an effort like this one. It won't make any difference as to whether HyuN gets the money owed to him (which seems unlikely).
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
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Golden so nice! HyuN so awesome! Will definitely watch this!!!!
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On January 02 2014 00:07 z0rz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 00:06 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 00:05 z0rz wrote:On January 01 2014 23:53 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 01 2014 23:29 fams wrote:By donating to HyuN, you are perpetuating a system that allows unscrupulous managers/organizations to take advantage of uneducated players. EXACTLY. The community needs to WAKE UP. Stop indulging in this feel-good crap. This isn't what we should be doing, even though it's "nice" to do. Do you guys even know what this is about? HyuN is considering retiring after this fiasco. This isn't about the money; it's about reaching out to someone who poured his heart and soul into something and got screwed over for it in the end. Doing this in no way perpetuates the corrupt system. If the funds were somehow going back to Quantic or another corrupt team/owner, you'd have a point. This is just a sign of gratitude/appreciation for a beloved progamer, and by sharing this story and making it a big deal, we are effectively spreading the word and hopefully informing aspiring progamers on the potential pitfalls of their career path and ways they can protect themselves. "Professional athletes," as you refer to, have player unions and lawyers/managers to protect them. You can say the progamers are at fault for being naive and putting themselves in a position where they can be taken advantage of, but by saying that you're letting the shady organizations off the hook. Until a legit union is established, this is the best we can really do: support the players that we love and spread the word to prevent someone like Simon from continuing to exist in the industry and to hopefully inform other players of the possibilities. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this gesture. It's a get out of jail free card for Quantic. If we just give Hyun money, then Quantic's actions will be forgotten until the next time a scam comes up. The correct course of action is pursuing Simon/Quantic. Because you can't do both?
For one, you aren't doing both. Which goes to prove my point. By letting Quantic get away with this, you aren't solving any issues. Also, by coddling HyuN in this situation, you are essentially saying that what he is doing (asking the community for a handout instead of going after Quantic for his money months ago) is the right thing.
Not to mention there is a better way to go about giving a little back to HyuN. How easy would it be to make a couple T-Shirt designs and start a spreadshirt for HyuN? Then I pay $30-50 for a shirt, HyuN pockets about half of that, and I get something out of it. He can also stream and earn money through that.
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On January 02 2014 00:18 Justinian wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2014 23:29 fams wrote:
I posted this on Reddit, Ill just post it again here:
Not to be a Grinch or anything here, but I really think this is a bad idea.
Many players throughout eSports' history are owed money. Staff too. Many of them are owed a lot more money than HyuN here. I do not think people should donate to HyuN simply because he is the latest case.
Presumably, HyuN has a contract with Quantic, one he should have taken action on during those months where he wasn't being paid. Obviously, Quantic did not fulfill their side of the agreement, and HyuN should have taken action during the first sight of trouble, not now months later after Simon has "disappeared". What HyuN should be doing is contacting a lawyer and following the proper channels, not allowing the community to donate and let this situation continue.
By donating to HyuN, you are perpetuating a system that allows unscrupulous managers/organizations to take advantage of uneducated players.
My sincere advice is for players who start earning money, to find themselves a personal manager with some experience. Andrew Tomlinson is one such manager, he works with viOlet and Polt. You should also get a financial advisor.
Also, for players who are in similar situations or might face a similar situation, do not wait until months after you are owed money, and you lose contact to the person who owes you said money to say something. Talk to people in the scene, there are friendly people with experience dealing with these matters who I am sure would be willing to at least give you some direction as to how to take action for yourself. At the very least, tell someone, even if it is a news outlet. Yeah it might sound like a bad situation, but the end result is one like this where HyuN is owed a significant amount of money, much like other notable professional players.
I just hope this HyuN situation is a wake-up call for other players: You are not children, you are "professional athletes" for all intents and purposes. This is your career, you should take an active role in managing it. Hire a manager and financial advisor. These are not insignificant amounts of money you are earning. Treating your career like a pastime and letting other people who do not have your best interests at heart, is a stupid idea, and this is what results of that. Wake up. HyuN should have kicked up a fuss earlier, but looking at it from his perspective I can totally understand why he didn't. He was being given false assurances all the way through and he did receive some money, so he had reason to believe that he would receive the rest and he would certainly have wanted to believe it. He would also want to avoid the public spectacle of a conflict with his team and the hassle of having to find another team. He was busy practicing and traveling to tournaments and would want to focus on that. Don't forget there is a language (and distance) barrier as well, which makes it harder to tell whether the excuses he was being given were genuine or not. I doubt the legal route will be worthwhile, as the sum in dispute is quite small and lawyers are expensive. The cost of instructing lawyers and going to court could be more than he would recover even assuming that the team manager has the money to pay what the court awards, which I doubt. However, he should at least contact a lawyer to see what they think (if his English is even good enough to discuss it with them). Either way, I can't see what possible harm can come from an effort like this one. It won't make any difference as to whether HyuN gets the money owed to him (which seems unlikely).
This actually brings up a good point: I imagine it would be pretty easy to get yourself blacklisted from a lot of future employment in esports if you throw your team/manager under the bus and put private information on blast while you're still contracted with the team.
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On January 02 2014 00:17 z0rz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 00:13 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 00:07 z0rz wrote:On January 02 2014 00:06 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 00:05 z0rz wrote:On January 01 2014 23:53 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 01 2014 23:29 fams wrote:By donating to HyuN, you are perpetuating a system that allows unscrupulous managers/organizations to take advantage of uneducated players. EXACTLY. The community needs to WAKE UP. Stop indulging in this feel-good crap. This isn't what we should be doing, even though it's "nice" to do. Do you guys even know what this is about? HyuN is considering retiring after this fiasco. This isn't about the money; it's about reaching out to someone who poured his heart and soul into something and got screwed over for it in the end. Doing this in no way perpetuates the corrupt system. If the funds were somehow going back to Quantic or another corrupt team/owner, you'd have a point. This is just a sign of gratitude/appreciation for a beloved progamer, and by sharing this story and making it a big deal, we are effectively spreading the word and hopefully informing aspiring progamers on the potential pitfalls of their career path and ways they can protect themselves. "Professional athletes," as you refer to, have player unions and lawyers/managers to protect them. You can say the progamers are at fault for being naive and putting themselves in a position where they can be taken advantage of, but by saying that you're letting the shady organizations off the hook. Until a legit union is established, this is the best we can really do: support the players that we love and spread the word to prevent someone like Simon from continuing to exist in the industry and to hopefully inform other players of the possibilities. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this gesture. It's a get out of jail free card for Quantic. If we just give Hyun money, then Quantic's actions will be forgotten until the next time a scam comes up. The correct course of action is pursuing Simon/Quantic. Because you can't do both? No one here is talking about doing both. They just want Hyun to get some money. After that, all will be forgiven with Quantic. Then another Quantic scam will come up. It's just stupid. Like I, and many others, have said: this will continue to happen without some sort of governing body or union to protect the players. Personally supporting the players that get screwed over doesn't make it any more or less likely for future players to get screwed over, so what's the fucking problem? If you want to help, help. If not, that's cool. Nobody is forced to participate in this. More importantly, no damage is being done by helping HyuN (unless he joined another corrupt team and fell for the same shit repeatedly etc). If anything, a grassroots campaign like this could gain a lot of traction and reach more people than you'd ever expect. And, like I said, that would spread the message and potentially inform new players of ways to protect themselves with contracts to prevent this from happening again. What are YOU doing to fix this?
All it's doing is spreading the message that if a pro player gets scammed, the community will donate to him. That gives even less incentive to players to be critical about their decision. They always have community donations to fall back on.
Quantic should have been destroyed after the Massan incident but the community was too soft on them.
I don't need to do anything to fix this. I realize the futility of it all. This community is just full of immature, soft people who want to keep giving Quantic second chances.
Sorry to Hyun, but this is what you get for:
1. Waiting so long to talk about Quantic's management (3 months without pay? Wtf?)
2. Being naive and trusting Quantic (especialy after the Massan incident)
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On January 02 2014 00:13 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 00:07 z0rz wrote:On January 02 2014 00:06 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 00:05 z0rz wrote:On January 01 2014 23:53 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 01 2014 23:29 fams wrote:By donating to HyuN, you are perpetuating a system that allows unscrupulous managers/organizations to take advantage of uneducated players. EXACTLY. The community needs to WAKE UP. Stop indulging in this feel-good crap. This isn't what we should be doing, even though it's "nice" to do. Do you guys even know what this is about? HyuN is considering retiring after this fiasco. This isn't about the money; it's about reaching out to someone who poured his heart and soul into something and got screwed over for it in the end. Doing this in no way perpetuates the corrupt system. If the funds were somehow going back to Quantic or another corrupt team/owner, you'd have a point. This is just a sign of gratitude/appreciation for a beloved progamer, and by sharing this story and making it a big deal, we are effectively spreading the word and hopefully informing aspiring progamers on the potential pitfalls of their career path and ways they can protect themselves. "Professional athletes," as you refer to, have player unions and lawyers/managers to protect them. You can say the progamers are at fault for being naive and putting themselves in a position where they can be taken advantage of, but by saying that you're letting the shady organizations off the hook. Until a legit union is established, this is the best we can really do: support the players that we love and spread the word to prevent someone like Simon from continuing to exist in the industry and to hopefully inform other players of the possibilities. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this gesture. It's a get out of jail free card for Quantic. If we just give Hyun money, then Quantic's actions will be forgotten until the next time a scam comes up. The correct course of action is pursuing Simon/Quantic. Because you can't do both? No one here is talking about doing both. They just want Hyun to get some money. After that, all will be forgiven with Quantic. Then another Quantic scam will come up. It's just stupid.
Would you rather Hyun retires and the Reddit/TL communities bring out their pitchforks to try and bring some guy "we" most likely will never be able to track down (because how the fuck would that even happen?) to justice? I'm all for making sure Simon pays everything he owes his players, but I feel that's more wishful thinking than helping Hyun out - something the community evidently is quite capable of doing. Giving Hyun money won't fix the mess nor will it prevent similar situations in the future, but neither will doing nothing and feeling good about being "mature".
You also seem to underesimate the collective memory of the Starcraft II community in thinking that "all will be forgotten" past this stage. If you turn out to be a shady guy or an untrustworthy organisation, people stop trusting you. It's happened multiple times before, and I am pretty sure that screwing a fan favorite out of $23.000 in both salary and prize money isn't something that will be forgotten by next week.
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On January 02 2014 00:26 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 00:13 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 00:07 z0rz wrote:On January 02 2014 00:06 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 00:05 z0rz wrote:On January 01 2014 23:53 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 01 2014 23:29 fams wrote:By donating to HyuN, you are perpetuating a system that allows unscrupulous managers/organizations to take advantage of uneducated players. EXACTLY. The community needs to WAKE UP. Stop indulging in this feel-good crap. This isn't what we should be doing, even though it's "nice" to do. Do you guys even know what this is about? HyuN is considering retiring after this fiasco. This isn't about the money; it's about reaching out to someone who poured his heart and soul into something and got screwed over for it in the end. Doing this in no way perpetuates the corrupt system. If the funds were somehow going back to Quantic or another corrupt team/owner, you'd have a point. This is just a sign of gratitude/appreciation for a beloved progamer, and by sharing this story and making it a big deal, we are effectively spreading the word and hopefully informing aspiring progamers on the potential pitfalls of their career path and ways they can protect themselves. "Professional athletes," as you refer to, have player unions and lawyers/managers to protect them. You can say the progamers are at fault for being naive and putting themselves in a position where they can be taken advantage of, but by saying that you're letting the shady organizations off the hook. Until a legit union is established, this is the best we can really do: support the players that we love and spread the word to prevent someone like Simon from continuing to exist in the industry and to hopefully inform other players of the possibilities. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this gesture. It's a get out of jail free card for Quantic. If we just give Hyun money, then Quantic's actions will be forgotten until the next time a scam comes up. The correct course of action is pursuing Simon/Quantic. Because you can't do both? No one here is talking about doing both. They just want Hyun to get some money. After that, all will be forgiven with Quantic. Then another Quantic scam will come up. It's just stupid. Would you rather Hyun retires and the Reddit/TL communities bring out their pitchforks to try and bring some guy "we" most likely will never be able to track down (because how the fuck would that even happen?) to justice? I'm all for making sure Simon pays everything he owes his players, but I feel that's more wishful thinking than helping Hyun out - something the community evidently is quite capable of doing. You also seem to underesimate the collective memory of the Starcraft II community in thinking that "all will be forgotten" past this stage. If you turn out to be a shady guy or an untrustworthy organisation, people stop trusting you. It's happened multiple times before, and I am pretty sure that screwing a fan favorite out of $23.000 in both salary and prize money isn't something that will be forgotten by next week.
The fact that Quantic was still able to exist after the Massan incident just goes to show how powerless the community is.
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On January 02 2014 00:17 z0rz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 00:13 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 00:07 z0rz wrote:On January 02 2014 00:06 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 00:05 z0rz wrote:On January 01 2014 23:53 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 01 2014 23:29 fams wrote:By donating to HyuN, you are perpetuating a system that allows unscrupulous managers/organizations to take advantage of uneducated players. EXACTLY. The community needs to WAKE UP. Stop indulging in this feel-good crap. This isn't what we should be doing, even though it's "nice" to do. Do you guys even know what this is about? HyuN is considering retiring after this fiasco. This isn't about the money; it's about reaching out to someone who poured his heart and soul into something and got screwed over for it in the end. Doing this in no way perpetuates the corrupt system. If the funds were somehow going back to Quantic or another corrupt team/owner, you'd have a point. This is just a sign of gratitude/appreciation for a beloved progamer, and by sharing this story and making it a big deal, we are effectively spreading the word and hopefully informing aspiring progamers on the potential pitfalls of their career path and ways they can protect themselves. "Professional athletes," as you refer to, have player unions and lawyers/managers to protect them. You can say the progamers are at fault for being naive and putting themselves in a position where they can be taken advantage of, but by saying that you're letting the shady organizations off the hook. Until a legit union is established, this is the best we can really do: support the players that we love and spread the word to prevent someone like Simon from continuing to exist in the industry and to hopefully inform other players of the possibilities. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this gesture. It's a get out of jail free card for Quantic. If we just give Hyun money, then Quantic's actions will be forgotten until the next time a scam comes up. The correct course of action is pursuing Simon/Quantic. Because you can't do both? No one here is talking about doing both. They just want Hyun to get some money. After that, all will be forgiven with Quantic. Then another Quantic scam will come up. It's just stupid. Like I, and many others, have said: this will continue to happen without some sort of governing body or union to protect the players. Personally supporting the players that get screwed over doesn't make it any more or less likely for future players to get screwed over, so what's the fucking problem? If you want to help, help. If not, that's cool. Nobody is forced to participate in this. More importantly, no damage is being done by helping HyuN (unless he joined another corrupt team and fell for the same shit repeatedly etc). If anything, a grassroots campaign like this could gain a lot of traction and reach more people than you'd ever expect. And, like I said, that would spread the message and potentially inform new players of ways to protect themselves with contracts to prevent this from happening again. What are YOU doing to fix this?
For starters you should look into the organization before even thinking about signing with them. None of this news should come as a surprise for many with regards to Quantic and for those who are familiar with this side of industry for well over a decade. There have always been shady characters. It goes beyond taking advantage of Koreans. The BW foreigner scene was a crap shoot too. Going back to the Koreans. They're definitely easy targets though with the language barrier and many of them used to the KeSPA practices. In many cases they don't know any better and think these teams are ran on the same paradigm. Nope. Make sure you do your homework if you want to get involved in the scene. Also lots of these contracts aren't up to snuff.
On January 02 2014 00:28 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 00:26 Zealously wrote:On January 02 2014 00:13 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 00:07 z0rz wrote:On January 02 2014 00:06 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 00:05 z0rz wrote:On January 01 2014 23:53 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 01 2014 23:29 fams wrote:By donating to HyuN, you are perpetuating a system that allows unscrupulous managers/organizations to take advantage of uneducated players. EXACTLY. The community needs to WAKE UP. Stop indulging in this feel-good crap. This isn't what we should be doing, even though it's "nice" to do. Do you guys even know what this is about? HyuN is considering retiring after this fiasco. This isn't about the money; it's about reaching out to someone who poured his heart and soul into something and got screwed over for it in the end. Doing this in no way perpetuates the corrupt system. If the funds were somehow going back to Quantic or another corrupt team/owner, you'd have a point. This is just a sign of gratitude/appreciation for a beloved progamer, and by sharing this story and making it a big deal, we are effectively spreading the word and hopefully informing aspiring progamers on the potential pitfalls of their career path and ways they can protect themselves. "Professional athletes," as you refer to, have player unions and lawyers/managers to protect them. You can say the progamers are at fault for being naive and putting themselves in a position where they can be taken advantage of, but by saying that you're letting the shady organizations off the hook. Until a legit union is established, this is the best we can really do: support the players that we love and spread the word to prevent someone like Simon from continuing to exist in the industry and to hopefully inform other players of the possibilities. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this gesture. It's a get out of jail free card for Quantic. If we just give Hyun money, then Quantic's actions will be forgotten until the next time a scam comes up. The correct course of action is pursuing Simon/Quantic. Because you can't do both? No one here is talking about doing both. They just want Hyun to get some money. After that, all will be forgiven with Quantic. Then another Quantic scam will come up. It's just stupid. Would you rather Hyun retires and the Reddit/TL communities bring out their pitchforks to try and bring some guy "we" most likely will never be able to track down (because how the fuck would that even happen?) to justice? I'm all for making sure Simon pays everything he owes his players, but I feel that's more wishful thinking than helping Hyun out - something the community evidently is quite capable of doing. You also seem to underesimate the collective memory of the Starcraft II community in thinking that "all will be forgotten" past this stage. If you turn out to be a shady guy or an untrustworthy organisation, people stop trusting you. It's happened multiple times before, and I am pretty sure that screwing a fan favorite out of $23.000 in both salary and prize money isn't something that will be forgotten by next week. The fact that Quantic was still able to exist after the Massan incident just goes to show how powerless the community is.
We never had real power to begin with. With all the shit that goes on at the end of the day you will still tune in and watch. The format(s) don't really matter. Go figure.
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Very nice project. Im happy to see that the players support each other.
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Hey Golden i really like what you are doing !!!
I'm happy to see the community holding strong like you trying to do it.
A bit of happiness in this darks time.
I guess 2014 will be the last great year for sc2 if they dont release LOV soon.
Happy new year all
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On January 02 2014 00:22 fams wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 00:07 z0rz wrote:On January 02 2014 00:06 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 00:05 z0rz wrote:On January 01 2014 23:53 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 01 2014 23:29 fams wrote:By donating to HyuN, you are perpetuating a system that allows unscrupulous managers/organizations to take advantage of uneducated players. EXACTLY. The community needs to WAKE UP. Stop indulging in this feel-good crap. This isn't what we should be doing, even though it's "nice" to do. Do you guys even know what this is about? HyuN is considering retiring after this fiasco. This isn't about the money; it's about reaching out to someone who poured his heart and soul into something and got screwed over for it in the end. Doing this in no way perpetuates the corrupt system. If the funds were somehow going back to Quantic or another corrupt team/owner, you'd have a point. This is just a sign of gratitude/appreciation for a beloved progamer, and by sharing this story and making it a big deal, we are effectively spreading the word and hopefully informing aspiring progamers on the potential pitfalls of their career path and ways they can protect themselves. "Professional athletes," as you refer to, have player unions and lawyers/managers to protect them. You can say the progamers are at fault for being naive and putting themselves in a position where they can be taken advantage of, but by saying that you're letting the shady organizations off the hook. Until a legit union is established, this is the best we can really do: support the players that we love and spread the word to prevent someone like Simon from continuing to exist in the industry and to hopefully inform other players of the possibilities. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this gesture. It's a get out of jail free card for Quantic. If we just give Hyun money, then Quantic's actions will be forgotten until the next time a scam comes up. The correct course of action is pursuing Simon/Quantic. Because you can't do both? For one, you aren't doing both. Which goes to prove my point. By letting Quantic get away with this, you aren't solving any issues. Also, by coddling HyuN in this situation, you are essentially saying that what he is doing (asking the community for a handout instead of going after Quantic for his money months ago) is the right thing. Not to mention there is a better way to go about giving a little back to HyuN. How easy would it be to make a couple T-Shirt designs and start a spreadshirt for HyuN? Then I pay $30-50 for a shirt, HyuN pockets about half of that, and I get something out of it. He can also stream and earn money through that.
First of all, none of us are "letting Quantic get away with this." We can't get do anything to get Simon fired. He's gone. Like I said, unless someone is a lawyer and willing to represent HyuN, no action CAN be taken against Quantic.
Second of all, HyuN DID ask for help in his original statement, but he NEVER asked for handouts. We can split hairs and argue what his intentions were when asking for help, but it seems pretty clear that he wanted help in settling the dispute.
Third of all, how the fuck is HyuN pocketing HALF the profits of a product better than him getting 100% of direct donations? I don't even. The point is to SUPPORT him. Why do you need to get something in return? Again, this is not a mandatory service.
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Positivity > Negativity. Good job guys.
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On January 02 2014 00:30 z0rz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 00:22 fams wrote:On January 02 2014 00:07 z0rz wrote:On January 02 2014 00:06 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 00:05 z0rz wrote:On January 01 2014 23:53 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 01 2014 23:29 fams wrote:By donating to HyuN, you are perpetuating a system that allows unscrupulous managers/organizations to take advantage of uneducated players. EXACTLY. The community needs to WAKE UP. Stop indulging in this feel-good crap. This isn't what we should be doing, even though it's "nice" to do. Do you guys even know what this is about? HyuN is considering retiring after this fiasco. This isn't about the money; it's about reaching out to someone who poured his heart and soul into something and got screwed over for it in the end. Doing this in no way perpetuates the corrupt system. If the funds were somehow going back to Quantic or another corrupt team/owner, you'd have a point. This is just a sign of gratitude/appreciation for a beloved progamer, and by sharing this story and making it a big deal, we are effectively spreading the word and hopefully informing aspiring progamers on the potential pitfalls of their career path and ways they can protect themselves. "Professional athletes," as you refer to, have player unions and lawyers/managers to protect them. You can say the progamers are at fault for being naive and putting themselves in a position where they can be taken advantage of, but by saying that you're letting the shady organizations off the hook. Until a legit union is established, this is the best we can really do: support the players that we love and spread the word to prevent someone like Simon from continuing to exist in the industry and to hopefully inform other players of the possibilities. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this gesture. It's a get out of jail free card for Quantic. If we just give Hyun money, then Quantic's actions will be forgotten until the next time a scam comes up. The correct course of action is pursuing Simon/Quantic. Because you can't do both? For one, you aren't doing both. Which goes to prove my point. By letting Quantic get away with this, you aren't solving any issues. Also, by coddling HyuN in this situation, you are essentially saying that what he is doing (asking the community for a handout instead of going after Quantic for his money months ago) is the right thing. Not to mention there is a better way to go about giving a little back to HyuN. How easy would it be to make a couple T-Shirt designs and start a spreadshirt for HyuN? Then I pay $30-50 for a shirt, HyuN pockets about half of that, and I get something out of it. He can also stream and earn money through that. First of all, none of us are "letting Quantic get away with this." We can't get do anything to get Simon fired. He's gone. Like I said, unless someone is a lawyer and willing to represent HyuN, no action CAN be taken against Quantic. Second of all, HyuN DID ask for help in his original statement, but he NEVER asked for handouts. We can split hairs and argue what his intentions were when asking for help, but it seems pretty clear that he wanted help in settling the dispute. Third of all, how the fuck is HyuN pocketing HALF the profits of a product better than him getting 100% of direct donations? I don't even. The point is to SUPPORT him. Why do you need to get something in return? Again, this is not a mandatory service.
1. I didn't mean in his original post, I mean that he is on board with these donations.
2. Him being able to make his own product/brand is a lot better, for him and the community. People aren't just throwing their money away, and HyuN can build something to help himself in the long run.
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You're so awesome, Golden <3
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Nazgul needs to sign this motherfucker.
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On January 02 2014 00:35 fams wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2014 00:30 z0rz wrote:On January 02 2014 00:22 fams wrote:On January 02 2014 00:07 z0rz wrote:On January 02 2014 00:06 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 02 2014 00:05 z0rz wrote:On January 01 2014 23:53 PeopleWhoAnnoyYou wrote:On January 01 2014 23:29 fams wrote:By donating to HyuN, you are perpetuating a system that allows unscrupulous managers/organizations to take advantage of uneducated players. EXACTLY. The community needs to WAKE UP. Stop indulging in this feel-good crap. This isn't what we should be doing, even though it's "nice" to do. Do you guys even know what this is about? HyuN is considering retiring after this fiasco. This isn't about the money; it's about reaching out to someone who poured his heart and soul into something and got screwed over for it in the end. Doing this in no way perpetuates the corrupt system. If the funds were somehow going back to Quantic or another corrupt team/owner, you'd have a point. This is just a sign of gratitude/appreciation for a beloved progamer, and by sharing this story and making it a big deal, we are effectively spreading the word and hopefully informing aspiring progamers on the potential pitfalls of their career path and ways they can protect themselves. "Professional athletes," as you refer to, have player unions and lawyers/managers to protect them. You can say the progamers are at fault for being naive and putting themselves in a position where they can be taken advantage of, but by saying that you're letting the shady organizations off the hook. Until a legit union is established, this is the best we can really do: support the players that we love and spread the word to prevent someone like Simon from continuing to exist in the industry and to hopefully inform other players of the possibilities. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this gesture. It's a get out of jail free card for Quantic. If we just give Hyun money, then Quantic's actions will be forgotten until the next time a scam comes up. The correct course of action is pursuing Simon/Quantic. Because you can't do both? For one, you aren't doing both. Which goes to prove my point. By letting Quantic get away with this, you aren't solving any issues. Also, by coddling HyuN in this situation, you are essentially saying that what he is doing ( asking the community for a handout instead of going after Quantic for his money months ago) is the right thing. Not to mention there is a better way to go about giving a little back to HyuN. How easy would it be to make a couple T-Shirt designs and start a spreadshirt for HyuN? Then I pay $30-50 for a shirt, HyuN pockets about half of that, and I get something out of it. He can also stream and earn money through that. First of all, none of us are "letting Quantic get away with this." We can't get do anything to get Simon fired. He's gone. Like I said, unless someone is a lawyer and willing to represent HyuN, no action CAN be taken against Quantic. Second of all, HyuN DID ask for help in his original statement, but he NEVER asked for handouts. We can split hairs and argue what his intentions were when asking for help, but it seems pretty clear that he wanted help in settling the dispute. Third of all, how the fuck is HyuN pocketing HALF the profits of a product better than him getting 100% of direct donations? I don't even. The point is to SUPPORT him. Why do you need to get something in return? Again, this is not a mandatory service. 1. I didn't mean in his original post, I mean that he is on board with these donations.2. Him being able to make his own product/brand is a lot better, for him and the community. People aren't just throwing their money away, and HyuN can build something to help himself in the long run.
Accepting community donations is so far from asking for handouts that I can't take anything you say seriously.
Not to mention you're disappointed that he hasn't established a clothing line to support himself 12 hours after the news broke.
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Wow, its unfortunate that his team owner is a douchebag but why do you have to milk the viewers for money?
Even if he just got 800$ it would be rude of him to retire.
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EPT
