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[DreamHack] Winter Day 3 2013 - Page 115

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 113 114 115 116 117 266 Next
hansonslee
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States2027 Posts
November 30 2013 19:20 GMT
#2281
gg in the beginning of game.

Offensive GG! Life is so cheeky :>
Seed's # 1 fan!!! #ForVengeance
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
November 30 2013 19:20 GMT
#2282
On December 01 2013 04:18 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2013 04:14 stuchiu wrote:
On December 01 2013 04:12 Shikyo wrote:
On December 01 2013 04:10 Qwerty85 wrote:
On December 01 2013 04:06 samurai80 wrote:
On December 01 2013 04:03 Rinny wrote:
On December 01 2013 03:52 Shikyo wrote:
How on earth does a bo3 benefit "a style"?



Consider the following, there are two starcraft players X and Y, X is slightly better at starcraft and he wins 60% of the games he plays against Y leaving Y to win only 40% . It is entirely possible for Y to play a set number of games with X and win more than him, but if X and Y were to play a million games of starcraft the probability that Y would win more games than X is VERY close to 0 like .000000001% . However if they were to play a 3 games (as in a bo3) the probability that Y would win more games is like 32 percent.

Most of the time playing cheesy doesn't result in a win rate of >50% in starcraft II (the exception being in the early days when tournaments were dominated by 1 base scv pulls) because as the game gets figured out and some of those strategies are patched out they lose their effectiveness. But even without a >50% winrate it's totally possible to beat superior opponents.

TL;DR Lower amounts of games in a series mean it is more likely for inferior opponents to advance.

Which benefits inferior players that is protoss. Is that what you mean ?


More like it benefits the player with more opening options. Protoss have much more builds that just straight up kill you if caught by surprise.

Flying 4 medivacs full of units into a protoss's army benefits the protoss player.


And so is being able to open with:
Proxy oracles
Proxy gate
fast HT
Blink aggression
DTs
Robo with DTs
Robo collosus
2 base stalker collosus
Zealot ht all-in

Protoss just has more variety, but having said all that, none of that had to do with why Patience beat Innovation.

lol, you should try to hide your whining better

May I link some online dictionary so you learn the definition of "whine"?
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23579 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-30 19:20:37
November 30 2013 19:20 GMT
#2283
Haha Apollo has a clear list in his head about who is better than who. Life > Inno > MMA :D. I want to see the full list.
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
November 30 2013 19:20 GMT
#2284
On December 01 2013 04:18 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2013 04:14 stuchiu wrote:
On December 01 2013 04:12 Shikyo wrote:
On December 01 2013 04:10 Qwerty85 wrote:
On December 01 2013 04:06 samurai80 wrote:
On December 01 2013 04:03 Rinny wrote:
On December 01 2013 03:52 Shikyo wrote:
How on earth does a bo3 benefit "a style"?



Consider the following, there are two starcraft players X and Y, X is slightly better at starcraft and he wins 60% of the games he plays against Y leaving Y to win only 40% . It is entirely possible for Y to play a set number of games with X and win more than him, but if X and Y were to play a million games of starcraft the probability that Y would win more games than X is VERY close to 0 like .000000001% . However if they were to play a 3 games (as in a bo3) the probability that Y would win more games is like 32 percent.

Most of the time playing cheesy doesn't result in a win rate of >50% in starcraft II (the exception being in the early days when tournaments were dominated by 1 base scv pulls) because as the game gets figured out and some of those strategies are patched out they lose their effectiveness. But even without a >50% winrate it's totally possible to beat superior opponents.

TL;DR Lower amounts of games in a series mean it is more likely for inferior opponents to advance.

Which benefits inferior players that is protoss. Is that what you mean ?


More like it benefits the player with more opening options. Protoss have much more builds that just straight up kill you if caught by surprise.

Flying 4 medivacs full of units into a protoss's army benefits the protoss player.


And so is being able to open with:
Proxy oracles
Proxy gate
fast HT
Blink aggression
DTs
Robo with DTs
Robo collosus
2 base stalker collosus
Zealot ht all-in

Protoss just has more variety, but having said all that, none of that had to do with why Patience beat Innovation.

lol, you should try to hide your whining better


The only thing that has ever bothered me is indecision. Byun vs Seed g5.
Moderator
Noonius
Profile Joined April 2012
Estonia17413 Posts
November 30 2013 19:20 GMT
#2285
On December 01 2013 04:20 hansonslee wrote:
gg in the beginning of game.

Offensive GG! Life is so cheeky :>


maybe he wanted Patience to tap out since Life typed gg heheheeeee
Terran forever | Maru hater forever
Heartland
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Sweden24604 Posts
November 30 2013 19:21 GMT
#2286
Come on Life!
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
November 30 2013 19:21 GMT
#2287
On December 01 2013 04:19 Noonius wrote:
Elämä on laiffii.

Finnish people will get it

"Life is life"

Well, that's sort of included in the definition.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
TJ31
Profile Joined October 2012
630 Posts
November 30 2013 19:21 GMT
#2288
On December 01 2013 04:19 opisska wrote:
So i don't know who to root for. Let me help choose: which of these player is easier for Taeja?

I don't know Kev.
I think Life is a much stronger player, but Taeja did so well vs him yesterday. Patience's pvt seems very good though, 2:0 MMA and Innovation... Seems like no easy finals for Taeja either way.
rinnnedor321
Profile Joined August 2013
53 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-30 19:22:38
November 30 2013 19:22 GMT
#2289
On December 01 2013 04:19 Vindicare605 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2013 03:59 rinnnedor321 wrote:
i hope flash will soon invent a build that gets a thor in a decent amount of time to shut down all the blink builds

thors are 300-200 and have such high dps they decimate stalkers and zealots and sentrys.

thors lose to immortals but have 7range. if you add 2 thors into your normal bio tactics, the immortals wont be shooting the thors and the thors high dps will help vaporize all the gateway units since the thors would likely target the immortals near the end of the engagement

1-2 thors nicely timed to supplement a bio build to make them immune to blink

the PROBLEM with blink is actually the forcefields. if there was no forcefields terrans could just go bio normally vs blink and be fine. thors are mostly to solve the forcefield problem

blink costs like 150/150 for the upgrade 150/100 for the twilight. thors 150/100 for the armory then 300/200 per thor. imo the cost could probably be worth it considering if you go a standard bio build into a few thors you dont need to spend 600 minerals on bunkers that you otherwise would need to get if you scout blink

getting a few thors in there imo is the best plan to combat the stupid blink stuff which put innovation behind 1000 minerals just cuz he scouted blink and tried to prepare for it


hope flash discovers the right way to everything soon!


Not sure if trolling or just that clueless.



i guess the way i see it is... mathematically

you can scout blink and put yourself 1000+ minerals behind like innovation did stopping SCV production + making 4 bunkers + pulling like 5 SCV's for pre emptive repairs

or spend 600/400 on 2 thors which you will put into your build around the time a full scale 2base blink attack would hit you. this makes you immune to the blink without being behind in army, but at the trade off of having zero offensive options against the protoss

so the protoss and terran can both defensive tech/expand as much as they please to 200food

this is bad considering terran has no lategame counter to protoss.... which may be true sadly. but i hope flash will find a way... soon hopefully
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
November 30 2013 19:22 GMT
#2290
wait, patience won Innovation? Who's updating the OP?
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
VisonKai
Profile Joined May 2012
United States2203 Posts
November 30 2013 19:22 GMT
#2291
Patience: Is He The New Sora? Or The New Sniper?

News at 11
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-30 19:24:25
November 30 2013 19:22 GMT
#2292
On December 01 2013 04:22 rinnnedor321 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2013 04:19 Vindicare605 wrote:
On December 01 2013 03:59 rinnnedor321 wrote:
i hope flash will soon invent a build that gets a thor in a decent amount of time to shut down all the blink builds

thors are 300-200 and have such high dps they decimate stalkers and zealots and sentrys.

thors lose to immortals but have 7range. if you add 2 thors into your normal bio tactics, the immortals wont be shooting the thors and the thors high dps will help vaporize all the gateway units since the thors would likely target the immortals near the end of the engagement

1-2 thors nicely timed to supplement a bio build to make them immune to blink

the PROBLEM with blink is actually the forcefields. if there was no forcefields terrans could just go bio normally vs blink and be fine. thors are mostly to solve the forcefield problem

blink costs like 150/150 for the upgrade 150/100 for the twilight. thors 150/100 for the armory then 300/200 per thor. imo the cost could probably be worth it considering if you go a standard bio build into a few thors you dont need to spend 600 minerals on bunkers that you otherwise would need to get if you scout blink

getting a few thors in there imo is the best plan to combat the stupid blink stuff which put innovation behind 1000 minerals just cuz he scouted blink and tried to prepare for it


hope flash discovers the right way to everything soon!


Not sure if trolling or just that clueless.



i guess the way i see it is... mathematically

you can scout blink and put yourself 1000+ minerals behind like innovation did making 4 bunkers and pulling like 5 SCV's for pre emptive repairs

or spend 600/400 on 2 thors which you will put into your build around the time a full scale 2base blink attack would hit you. this makes you immune to the blink without being behind in army, but at the trade off of having zero offensive options against the protoss

so the protoss and terran can both defensive tech/expand as much as they please to 200food

this is bad considering terran has no lategame counter to protoss.... which may be true sadly. but i hope flash will find a way... soon hopefully

What is this "2 thors makes you immune to blink" nonsense that you haven't even bothered to prove?

I mean, thors are slow and going around them is easy. They do everything worse than Immortals and cost far more.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Holdenintherye
Profile Joined December 2012
Canada1441 Posts
November 30 2013 19:23 GMT
#2293
Did nathanias just call zerglings a "classic startale life unit"?
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
November 30 2013 19:23 GMT
#2294
hmm Patience taking out sOs, MMA, Polt and Innovation is unexpected. Dark horse?
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Weavel
Profile Joined January 2010
Finland9223 Posts
November 30 2013 19:23 GMT
#2295
We got a macro game!
Life/Seed//Mvp/NaNiwa fighting! ZeNEX forever!
Undead1993
Profile Joined January 2012
Germany17651 Posts
November 30 2013 19:23 GMT
#2296
On December 01 2013 04:23 BigFan wrote:
hmm Patience taking out sOs, MMA, Polt and Innovation is unexpected. Dark horse?

more like the unicorn
SEKO SEKO SEKO SEKO SEKO
rinnnedor321
Profile Joined August 2013
53 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-30 19:24:20
November 30 2013 19:24 GMT
#2297
On December 01 2013 04:22 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2013 04:22 rinnnedor321 wrote:
On December 01 2013 04:19 Vindicare605 wrote:
On December 01 2013 03:59 rinnnedor321 wrote:
i hope flash will soon invent a build that gets a thor in a decent amount of time to shut down all the blink builds

thors are 300-200 and have such high dps they decimate stalkers and zealots and sentrys.

thors lose to immortals but have 7range. if you add 2 thors into your normal bio tactics, the immortals wont be shooting the thors and the thors high dps will help vaporize all the gateway units since the thors would likely target the immortals near the end of the engagement

1-2 thors nicely timed to supplement a bio build to make them immune to blink

the PROBLEM with blink is actually the forcefields. if there was no forcefields terrans could just go bio normally vs blink and be fine. thors are mostly to solve the forcefield problem

blink costs like 150/150 for the upgrade 150/100 for the twilight. thors 150/100 for the armory then 300/200 per thor. imo the cost could probably be worth it considering if you go a standard bio build into a few thors you dont need to spend 600 minerals on bunkers that you otherwise would need to get if you scout blink

getting a few thors in there imo is the best plan to combat the stupid blink stuff which put innovation behind 1000 minerals just cuz he scouted blink and tried to prepare for it


hope flash discovers the right way to everything soon!


Not sure if trolling or just that clueless.



i guess the way i see it is... mathematically

you can scout blink and put yourself 1000+ minerals behind like innovation did making 4 bunkers and pulling like 5 SCV's for pre emptive repairs

or spend 600/400 on 2 thors which you will put into your build around the time a full scale 2base blink attack would hit you. this makes you immune to the blink without being behind in army, but at the trade off of having zero offensive options against the protoss

so the protoss and terran can both defensive tech/expand as much as they please to 200food

this is bad considering terran has no lategame counter to protoss.... which may be true sadly. but i hope flash will find a way... soon hopefully

What is this "2 thors makes you immune to blink" nonsense that you haven't even bothered to prove?


your army would be equal size, but the protoss would be unable to FF your ramp removing the thing that makes blink overpowered vs terran

the problem with blink is the forcefields. if there was no forcefield on your ramp innovation wouldnt even need to make those bunkers
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
November 30 2013 19:24 GMT
#2298
On December 01 2013 04:23 BigFan wrote:
hmm Patience taking out sOs, MMA, Polt and Innovation is unexpected. Dark horse?


Expected from Azubu fans.
Moderator
Popkiller
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
3415 Posts
November 30 2013 19:24 GMT
#2299
On December 01 2013 04:24 stuchiu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2013 04:23 BigFan wrote:
hmm Patience taking out sOs, MMA, Polt and Innovation is unexpected. Dark horse?


Expected from Azubu fans.


nah, I doubt it.
Trius
Profile Joined March 2013
Ukraine273 Posts
November 30 2013 19:24 GMT
#2300
On December 01 2013 04:22 VisonKai wrote:
Patience: Is He The New Sora? Or The New Sniper?

News at 11

Sniper: Protoss Edition
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