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On December 01 2013 04:03 Rinny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 03:52 Shikyo wrote:
How on earth does a bo3 benefit "a style"? Consider the following, there are two starcraft players X and Y, X is slightly better at starcraft and he wins 60% of the games he plays against Y leaving Y to win only 40% . It is entirely possible for Y to play a set number of games with X and win more than him, but if X and Y were to play a million games of starcraft the probability that Y would win more games than X is VERY close to 0 like .000000001% . However if they were to play a 3 games (as in a bo3) the probability that Y would win more games is like 32 percent. Most of the time playing cheesy doesn't result in a win rate of >50% in starcraft II (the exception being in the early days when tournaments were dominated by 1 base scv pulls) because as the game gets figured out and some of those strategies are patched out they lose their effectiveness. But even without a >50% winrate it's totally possible to beat superior opponents. TL;DR Lower amounts of games in a series mean it is more likely for inferior opponents to advance.
Yeah, lower amount of games benefits the worse player. That has nothing to do with style.
If anything, for a single match it's beneficial to play in a macro style because you cannot risk it all on a risky build, whereas the longer the series is, the better it is for a player with many gimmicky builds. This is about style between equally skilled players and not about a 10 times worse player cheesing in desperation.
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On December 01 2013 04:05 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 04:02 Schelim wrote:On December 01 2013 03:59 TheDwf wrote:On December 01 2013 03:59 rinnnedor321 wrote:
i hope flash will soon invent a build that gets a thor in a decent amount of time to shut down all the blink builds
thors are 300-200 and have such high dps they decimate stalkers and zealots and sentrys.
1-2 thors nicely timed to supplement a bio build to make them immune to blink
the PROBLEM with blink is actually the forcefields. if there was no forcefields terrans could just go bio normally vs blink and be fine. thors are mostly to solve the forcefield problem
blink costs like 150/150 for the upgrade 150/100 for the twilight. thors 150/100 for the armory then 300/200 per thor. imo the cost could probably be worth it considering if you go a standard bio build into a few thors you dont need to spend 600 minerals on bunkers that you otherwise would need to get if you scout blink
getting a few thors in there imo is the best plan to combat the stupid blink stuff which put innovation behind 1000 minerals just cuz he scouted blink and tried to prepare for it
hope flash discovers the right way to everything soon! What... I don't even... lol i can't tell if that guy is being serious or not. anyways, if you wanna use a techlab factory against blink all-ins, make fucking siege tanks. yeah if blizz actually decided to make siege tanks fucking worth it vs toss .. and if ever that happens then protoss players will now feel what terran players felt because of msc ..
when single siegetanks are worthy against blink-stalker allins they need a total new design. otherwise they will beat almost everything
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As much as i want Taeja to win it all, it would be hilarious if Patience takes the gold. That would be funny as hell and increase the ban thread by 10 pages..
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On December 01 2013 04:07 Schelim wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 04:05 felisconcolori wrote:On December 01 2013 04:04 Boundz(DarKo) wrote:On December 01 2013 04:04 Schelim wrote:
that x-ray vision ad is so stupid Quiet you non-believer. He just sees right through the marketing. lmao. i don't even care so much for the scientific facts (or lack thereof), it's just such a stupid script it's almost impressive, even for an ad. i can haz x-ray visionz!!! *guys turn to girl with incredibly creepy looks on their faces* "ewwwww, you guys are groooss" way to insult your target group by making them look stupid as fuck, both genders.
In their defense, there's a reason why that's such a ubiquitous trope throughout advertising and other media.
Although, for the sake of diversity, they should have one of the guys on the team look at another guy.
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Croatia5536 Posts
On December 01 2013 04:06 samurai80 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 04:03 Rinny wrote:On December 01 2013 03:52 Shikyo wrote:
How on earth does a bo3 benefit "a style"? Consider the following, there are two starcraft players X and Y, X is slightly better at starcraft and he wins 60% of the games he plays against Y leaving Y to win only 40% . It is entirely possible for Y to play a set number of games with X and win more than him, but if X and Y were to play a million games of starcraft the probability that Y would win more games than X is VERY close to 0 like .000000001% . However if they were to play a 3 games (as in a bo3) the probability that Y would win more games is like 32 percent. Most of the time playing cheesy doesn't result in a win rate of >50% in starcraft II (the exception being in the early days when tournaments were dominated by 1 base scv pulls) because as the game gets figured out and some of those strategies are patched out they lose their effectiveness. But even without a >50% winrate it's totally possible to beat superior opponents. TL;DR Lower amounts of games in a series mean it is more likely for inferior opponents to advance. Which benefits inferior players that is protoss. Is that what you mean ?
More like it benefits the player with more opening options. Protoss have much more builds that just straight up kill you if caught by surprise.
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On December 01 2013 04:08 75 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 04:05 goody153 wrote:On December 01 2013 04:02 Schelim wrote:On December 01 2013 03:59 TheDwf wrote:On December 01 2013 03:59 rinnnedor321 wrote:
i hope flash will soon invent a build that gets a thor in a decent amount of time to shut down all the blink builds
thors are 300-200 and have such high dps they decimate stalkers and zealots and sentrys.
1-2 thors nicely timed to supplement a bio build to make them immune to blink
the PROBLEM with blink is actually the forcefields. if there was no forcefields terrans could just go bio normally vs blink and be fine. thors are mostly to solve the forcefield problem
blink costs like 150/150 for the upgrade 150/100 for the twilight. thors 150/100 for the armory then 300/200 per thor. imo the cost could probably be worth it considering if you go a standard bio build into a few thors you dont need to spend 600 minerals on bunkers that you otherwise would need to get if you scout blink
getting a few thors in there imo is the best plan to combat the stupid blink stuff which put innovation behind 1000 minerals just cuz he scouted blink and tried to prepare for it
hope flash discovers the right way to everything soon! What... I don't even... lol i can't tell if that guy is being serious or not. anyways, if you wanna use a techlab factory against blink all-ins, make fucking siege tanks. yeah if blizz actually decided to make siege tanks fucking worth it vs toss .. and if ever that happens then protoss players will now feel what terran players felt because of msc .. when single siegetanks are worthy against blink-stalker allins they need a total new design. otherwise they will beat almost everything
uhm like they do not deal 10 damage to immortals when sieged ? can that be one ?
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I think every once in awhile we should at least attempt to give some credit to Protoss players instead of constantly talking them down. That would be a cool change of pace wouldn't it?
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On December 01 2013 04:05 rinnnedor321 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 04:02 opisska wrote:On December 01 2013 03:59 rinnnedor321 wrote:
i hope flash will soon invent a build that gets a thor in a decent amount of time to shut down all the blink builds
thors are 300-200 and have such high dps they decimate stalkers and zealots and sentrys.
1-2 thors nicely timed to supplement a bio build to make them immune to blink
the PROBLEM with blink is actually the forcefields. if there was no forcefields terrans could just go bio normally vs blink and be fine. thors are mostly to solve the forcefield problem
blink costs like 150/150 for the upgrade 150/100 for the twilight. thors 150/100 for the armory then 300/200 per thor. imo the cost could probably be worth it considering if you go a standard bio build into a few thors you dont need to spend 600 minerals on bunkers that you otherwise would need to get if you scout blink
getting a few thors in there imo is the best plan to combat the stupid blink stuff which put innovation behind 1000 minerals just cuz he scouted blink and tried to prepare for it
hope flash discovers the right way to everything soon! Probably the right reaction to this is to abandond the build on the first sight of the Thor (while continuing to fake pressure) and then laugh about the two medivacs the terran misses for each Thor. thors combat stats are not that bad at all. their DPS is worth the cost. spending 600/400 to be immune to blink, and being behind 4 medivacs, while having tons of DPS instead, isnt that bad considering you are allowed to do a standard bio build and essentially not have to worry about blink ever again paying a 600/400 insurance policy to do bio while not worrying about bios stupidest counter (blink) the plan is just do normal bio but then somehow get the thors in there when blink would normally screw around with you. sacrifice the first 4 medivacs to be immune to blink. then get more medivacs after that. its a trade off sure but you wouldnt need to worry about blink
i STILL can't tell if you're being serious. investing 600/400 to *possibly* counter a *potential* allin and sacrificing the first FOUR medivacs is "not a big deal"? what world do you live in?
"the plan is just do normal bio but then somehow get the thors in there"
well yeah if you can just somehow conjure up those thors outta nowhere that would certainly be awesome. too bad you can't.
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On December 01 2013 04:00 YoloSwaggins wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 03:49 StarStruck wrote:On December 01 2013 03:43 YoloSwaggins wrote:On December 01 2013 03:40 StarStruck wrote:On December 01 2013 03:38 YoloSwaggins wrote:On December 01 2013 03:35 andilaama wrote:On December 01 2013 03:30 Jer99 wrote:
Jesus Patience is playing well With everyone talking about metal bands, "Jesus Patience" sounds like it's fated to be the name of one sooner or later. oh come on he cheesed vs a cc first. it's a legit win but it's a 100% build order counter, not much skill is involved after you choose the build. I have zero sympathy for players who don't scout right. it's no different than flash getting punished for cc first in tvz in bw until he found a way to make it work. same deal here. not the same deal, innovation isn't famous for cc 1st-ing, he did it a few times and now he got cheesed blindly and lost, that's it. don't read too much into it. also it's not like a proxy gate can't be hidden well so that it's almost impossible to scout. it most certainly is. doesn't matter if your famous for it or not you have to know what to do if you get rushed down. Blindly because you try and take shortcuts? No, you better have a plan. not much to read into it because he didn't scout, he just doesn't know how to defend. Lots of players cannot defend such a thing like flash in BW. Come on you know what's in the protoss roster. YOU have to expect the proxies no matter what. whether it be cannon rush, stargate/oracle, proxy gate. They've been doing it long enough that you got to stop taking shortcuts. all that is true but it doesn't mean it took a lot of skill to do it, that's why it's not a big deal. i'm not sure why you talk about this so much, protoss can make shit like this work even if it's not a blind counter and now it was just that. or if it is a big deal, basically you're saying no terran should ever go cc 1st because they get cheesed and lose. in that case, great analysis there.
the real good players scout this shit out very fast man. we've seen it happen in PL a lot of times where the openings just get snuffed out and it turns into a regular game. I have no ill will towards players who can mix it up this way. People used to bitch about all sorts of openings from the different races like 1-1-1. It's not just one damn build. Same holds true to the 1-1-1. You really didn't have to, you could proxy just as well as the rest and pull scvs at the same time to make things difficult. It is what it is don't hate the player you can hate the game all you want though. Yes, even top level players can falter against such openings but most of the time they scout it out. People seem to like to highlight these ones more because it's a big tournament and it's happening now when these tricks happen all the time.
and lol, no you better have a plan and know where to look for such proxies. you take shortcuts against the protoss tech right now and you put yourself in a coin-flip situation because everyone fucking knows its coming. Start switching it up.
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On December 01 2013 04:08 75 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 04:05 goody153 wrote:On December 01 2013 04:02 Schelim wrote:On December 01 2013 03:59 TheDwf wrote:On December 01 2013 03:59 rinnnedor321 wrote:
i hope flash will soon invent a build that gets a thor in a decent amount of time to shut down all the blink builds
thors are 300-200 and have such high dps they decimate stalkers and zealots and sentrys.
1-2 thors nicely timed to supplement a bio build to make them immune to blink
the PROBLEM with blink is actually the forcefields. if there was no forcefields terrans could just go bio normally vs blink and be fine. thors are mostly to solve the forcefield problem
blink costs like 150/150 for the upgrade 150/100 for the twilight. thors 150/100 for the armory then 300/200 per thor. imo the cost could probably be worth it considering if you go a standard bio build into a few thors you dont need to spend 600 minerals on bunkers that you otherwise would need to get if you scout blink
getting a few thors in there imo is the best plan to combat the stupid blink stuff which put innovation behind 1000 minerals just cuz he scouted blink and tried to prepare for it
hope flash discovers the right way to everything soon! What... I don't even... lol i can't tell if that guy is being serious or not. anyways, if you wanna use a techlab factory against blink all-ins, make fucking siege tanks. yeah if blizz actually decided to make siege tanks fucking worth it vs toss .. and if ever that happens then protoss players will now feel what terran players felt because of msc .. when single siegetanks are worthy against blink-stalker allins they need a total new design. otherwise they will beat almost everything
I still dont understand how a sieged tank doesnt 1-shot a worker.
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On December 01 2013 04:10 Qwerty85 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 04:06 samurai80 wrote:On December 01 2013 04:03 Rinny wrote:On December 01 2013 03:52 Shikyo wrote:
How on earth does a bo3 benefit "a style"? Consider the following, there are two starcraft players X and Y, X is slightly better at starcraft and he wins 60% of the games he plays against Y leaving Y to win only 40% . It is entirely possible for Y to play a set number of games with X and win more than him, but if X and Y were to play a million games of starcraft the probability that Y would win more games than X is VERY close to 0 like .000000001% . However if they were to play a 3 games (as in a bo3) the probability that Y would win more games is like 32 percent. Most of the time playing cheesy doesn't result in a win rate of >50% in starcraft II (the exception being in the early days when tournaments were dominated by 1 base scv pulls) because as the game gets figured out and some of those strategies are patched out they lose their effectiveness. But even without a >50% winrate it's totally possible to beat superior opponents. TL;DR Lower amounts of games in a series mean it is more likely for inferior opponents to advance. Which benefits inferior players that is protoss. Is that what you mean ? More like it benefits the player with more opening options. Protoss have much more builds that just straight up kill you if caught by surprise.
Well I m just trying to interpret what he said. He said that lower players win more in shorter series, and this was to prove that protoss are favored in these cases...
Edit: not to mention that terrans and zergs have an easier early game scout than protoss.
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On December 01 2013 04:05 rinnnedor321 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 04:02 opisska wrote:On December 01 2013 03:59 rinnnedor321 wrote:
i hope flash will soon invent a build that gets a thor in a decent amount of time to shut down all the blink builds
thors are 300-200 and have such high dps they decimate stalkers and zealots and sentrys.
1-2 thors nicely timed to supplement a bio build to make them immune to blink
the PROBLEM with blink is actually the forcefields. if there was no forcefields terrans could just go bio normally vs blink and be fine. thors are mostly to solve the forcefield problem
blink costs like 150/150 for the upgrade 150/100 for the twilight. thors 150/100 for the armory then 300/200 per thor. imo the cost could probably be worth it considering if you go a standard bio build into a few thors you dont need to spend 600 minerals on bunkers that you otherwise would need to get if you scout blink
getting a few thors in there imo is the best plan to combat the stupid blink stuff which put innovation behind 1000 minerals just cuz he scouted blink and tried to prepare for it
hope flash discovers the right way to everything soon! Probably the right reaction to this is to abandond the build on the first sight of the Thor (while continuing to fake pressure) and then laugh about the two medivacs the terran misses for each Thor. thors combat stats are not that bad at all. their DPS is worth the cost. spending 600/400 to be immune to blink, and being behind 4 medivacs, while having tons of DPS instead, isnt that bad considering you are allowed to do a standard bio build and essentially not have to worry about blink ever again paying a 600/400 insurance policy to do bio while not worrying about bios stupidest counter (blink) the plan is just do normal bio but then somehow get the thors in there when blink would normally screw around with you. sacrifice the first 4 medivacs to be immune to blink. then get more medivacs after that. its a trade off sure but you wouldnt need to worry about blink
It doesn't work like that. You can't just send 600/400 down the drain in top level play and hope not to be punished for it. The whole bio play revolves around attack timings that the terran hits to keep the protoss at bay - if the terran fails to do so, the protoss may roll him over a couple of minutes later with too much of a tech and eco advantage.
This would only work, if the thors were actually good to incorporate into the overall gameplan, but noone has really shown how to do that. Mech is so weak against protoss that it's not even funny.
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On December 01 2013 04:10 Wingblade wrote:
I think every once in awhile we should at least attempt to give some credit to Protoss players instead of constantly talking them down. That would be a cool change of pace wouldn't it?
Eww, go away with you friendly, thought-out and rational attitude, this is a lr thread here!
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On December 01 2013 04:10 Qwerty85 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 04:06 samurai80 wrote:On December 01 2013 04:03 Rinny wrote:On December 01 2013 03:52 Shikyo wrote:
How on earth does a bo3 benefit "a style"? Consider the following, there are two starcraft players X and Y, X is slightly better at starcraft and he wins 60% of the games he plays against Y leaving Y to win only 40% . It is entirely possible for Y to play a set number of games with X and win more than him, but if X and Y were to play a million games of starcraft the probability that Y would win more games than X is VERY close to 0 like .000000001% . However if they were to play a 3 games (as in a bo3) the probability that Y would win more games is like 32 percent. Most of the time playing cheesy doesn't result in a win rate of >50% in starcraft II (the exception being in the early days when tournaments were dominated by 1 base scv pulls) because as the game gets figured out and some of those strategies are patched out they lose their effectiveness. But even without a >50% winrate it's totally possible to beat superior opponents. TL;DR Lower amounts of games in a series mean it is more likely for inferior opponents to advance. Which benefits inferior players that is protoss. Is that what you mean ? More like it benefits the player with more opening options. Protoss have much more builds that just straight up kill you if caught by surprise.
Flying 4 medivacs full of units into a protoss's army benefits the protoss player.
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On December 01 2013 04:10 Qwerty85 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 04:06 samurai80 wrote:On December 01 2013 04:03 Rinny wrote:On December 01 2013 03:52 Shikyo wrote:
How on earth does a bo3 benefit "a style"? Consider the following, there are two starcraft players X and Y, X is slightly better at starcraft and he wins 60% of the games he plays against Y leaving Y to win only 40% . It is entirely possible for Y to play a set number of games with X and win more than him, but if X and Y were to play a million games of starcraft the probability that Y would win more games than X is VERY close to 0 like .000000001% . However if they were to play a 3 games (as in a bo3) the probability that Y would win more games is like 32 percent. Most of the time playing cheesy doesn't result in a win rate of >50% in starcraft II (the exception being in the early days when tournaments were dominated by 1 base scv pulls) because as the game gets figured out and some of those strategies are patched out they lose their effectiveness. But even without a >50% winrate it's totally possible to beat superior opponents. TL;DR Lower amounts of games in a series mean it is more likely for inferior opponents to advance. Which benefits inferior players that is protoss. Is that what you mean ? More like it benefits the player with more opening options. Protoss have much more builds that just straight up kill you if caught by surprise.
why is having more builds better in bo3 than ,lets say, bo7
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That Patience is able to play so clutch while looking so shaken out of the booth is incredible.
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I want to have a kid with a korean girl and I want him to look exactly like Life
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Patience is such a qt pie
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EPT
