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On December 01 2013 03:57 templar rage wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 03:56 Jer99 wrote:On December 01 2013 03:53 Qwerty85 wrote:On December 01 2013 03:45 Jer99 wrote:On December 01 2013 03:43 boxerfred wrote:On December 01 2013 03:42 Jer99 wrote:On December 01 2013 03:41 Caladan wrote:
Why are people saying Patience is "tearing through"?
He's just abusing the bo3 format of the whole LB grid by doing all-ins and proxy gates. That was just LB finals, bo3, in 20 minutes.
Predicting his run will stop in the first BO5 he meets (now) and we will never again hear from this guy. That's just not how you become a S-class player. So how come no one else was able to do this? Patience has incredible control and has the perfect responses against players When he played MMA on akilon, he had stellar stalker control against the hellions/marines in MMAs natural, which not many players can do That's the definition of "fluke". Play great once for whatever reasons and whichever way, then disappear into nothing. Captain Fluke already 'sniped' Roro. So why can't he play great in the future? Did i forget that you can see into the future or something? Haters gonna hate, Patience is playing fantastically Probably because we had players like that before. One of them finished last in his group at this Dreamhack. I think he is successful because other players treat him like an experienced pro gamer. Who would go for proxy gate on that map since most players open reaper expand there.. It is 2 player map and your opponent knows where you are so it is very risky to open cc 1st. Innovation was probably thinking he is mind gaming him by going for that build but Patience just flips a coin and does a build regardless of the map. I am not saying he has no talent at all because if he is really playing only for 1 year, even coming here is an achievement, but I think it is more realistic that he will fall off the radar like Stardust than become the next Dear. How has Stardust fallen off the radar? Because he's finally got last place in 1 of his groups? Does this discount a progamer now? He never fell off my radar. But he couldn't because he was never on it to begin with.
BOOM! ahah
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i hope flash will soon invent a build that gets a thor in a decent amount of time to shut down all the blink builds
thors are 300-200 and have such high dps they decimate stalkers and zealots and sentrys.
thors lose to immortals but have 7range. if you add 2 thors into your normal bio tactics, the immortals wont be shooting the thors and the thors high dps will help vaporize all the gateway units since the thors would likely target the immortals near the end of the engagement
1-2 thors nicely timed to supplement a bio build to make them immune to blink
the PROBLEM with blink is actually the forcefields. if there was no forcefields terrans could just go bio normally vs blink and be fine. thors are mostly to solve the forcefield problem
blink costs like 150/150 for the upgrade 150/100 for the twilight. thors 150/100 for the armory then 300/200 per thor. imo the cost could probably be worth it considering if you go a standard bio build into a few thors you dont need to spend 600 minerals on bunkers that you otherwise would need to get if you scout blink
getting a few thors in there imo is the best plan to combat the stupid blink stuff which put innovation behind 1000 minerals just cuz he scouted blink and tried to prepare for it
hope flash discovers the right way to everything soon!
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On December 01 2013 03:54 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 03:52 Shikyo wrote:On December 01 2013 03:51 Fjodorov wrote:On December 01 2013 03:47 Markwerf wrote:
what a complete bullshit about this "abusing the bo3 format". Really that stuff doesn't matter at all, his opponents can see all his games when they are not playing.. What gives a fuck really if it's a bo3 vs MMA and then a bo3 vs innovation instead of just a bo5 vs one of them. He has to vary just as much and his opponents have enough information to go on.
He just plays well and his strategy decisions work out well, a combination of smart choices and a bit of luck but that's always the case in the buildorder game.
He also played some fine standard games, if opponents didn't respect his endgame they would definately not be doing stuff like CC first on a smallish 2p map.
I don't consider it a great player from what i've seen yet but just calling it 'bo3 cheesing' is rediculously unfair. Patience is playing very well, no doubt. But I think bo3 increases his chances as benefits him and his style. How on earth does a bo3 benefit "a style"? It benefits Protoss, not a style. There's a reason when Protoss was doing "bad" in major tournaments they had an almost 65% (? I can't remember if it was higher or not) winrate in PL.
Lol what ? I don't even want to comment on this...
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On December 01 2013 03:55 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 03:43 Aeromi wrote:On December 01 2013 03:42 Tobblish wrote:On December 01 2013 03:41 Caladan wrote:
Why are people saying Patience is "tearing through"?
He's just abusing the bo3 format of the whole LB grid by doing all-ins and proxy gates. That was just LB finals, bo3, in 20 minutes.
Predicting his run will stop in the first BO5 he meets (now) and we will never again hear from this guy. That's just not how you become a S-class player. Stardust managed to at least win a Dreamhack. And Sora made to WCG Korean qualifier. And Naama won DreamHack Winter
That was like 3 years ago and he cheesed every game
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On December 01 2013 03:59 rinnnedor321 wrote:
i hope flash will soon invent a build that gets a thor in a decent amount of time to shut down all the blink builds
thors are 300-200 and have such high dps they decimate stalkers and zealots and sentrys.
1-2 thors nicely timed to supplement a bio build to make them immune to blink
the PROBLEM with blink is actually the forcefields. if there was no forcefields terrans could just go bio normally vs blink and be fine. thors are mostly to solve the forcefield problem
blink costs like 150/150 for the upgrade 150/100 for the twilight. thors 150/100 for the armory then 300/200 per thor. imo the cost could probably be worth it considering if you go a standard bio build into a few thors you dont need to spend 600 minerals on bunkers that you otherwise would need to get if you scout blink
getting a few thors in there imo is the best plan to combat the stupid blink stuff which put innovation behind 1000 minerals just cuz he scouted blink and tried to prepare for it
hope flash discovers the right way to everything soon!
What... I don't even...
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I think i saw some promotion regarding either dreamhack or iem (too many tournaments) about a discount for logitech products.
Does anyone remember or am i hallucinating?
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On December 01 2013 03:58 Noc- wrote:
Taeja in finals is already lame and boring. Now this Patience guy cheesing he's way to the finals.
Im out for CSGO
K bye
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Incontrol did you rob that shirt from capn Kirk?
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On December 01 2013 03:55 ArTiFaKs wrote:
the mothership core has been around forever now and just now it's OP? It was only a month ago everyone was complaining Terran was OP. Once people start figuring things out in about month some other race will be OP. Just how it goes.
(we) terrans are frustrated with the MSC since HOTS. it shuts down almost all "aggressive" openings such as mkp's 2rax techlab/reactor. All that remains is a proxy 2rax. on the other hand most of protoss all ins still remain intact from wol. earlygame hasn't got any easier for terrans.
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On December 01 2013 03:49 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 03:43 YoloSwaggins wrote:On December 01 2013 03:40 StarStruck wrote:On December 01 2013 03:38 YoloSwaggins wrote:On December 01 2013 03:35 andilaama wrote:On December 01 2013 03:30 Jer99 wrote:
Jesus Patience is playing well With everyone talking about metal bands, "Jesus Patience" sounds like it's fated to be the name of one sooner or later. oh come on he cheesed vs a cc first. it's a legit win but it's a 100% build order counter, not much skill is involved after you choose the build. I have zero sympathy for players who don't scout right. it's no different than flash getting punished for cc first in tvz in bw until he found a way to make it work. same deal here. not the same deal, innovation isn't famous for cc 1st-ing, he did it a few times and now he got cheesed blindly and lost, that's it. don't read too much into it. also it's not like a proxy gate can't be hidden well so that it's almost impossible to scout. it most certainly is. doesn't matter if your famous for it or not you have to know what to do if you get rushed down. Blindly because you try and take shortcuts? No, you better have a plan. not much to read into it because he didn't scout, he just doesn't know how to defend. Lots of players cannot defend such a thing like flash in BW. Come on you know what's in the protoss roster. YOU have to expect the proxies no matter what. whether it be cannon rush, stargate/oracle, proxy gate. They've been doing it long enough that you got to stop taking shortcuts.
all that is true but it doesn't mean it took a lot of skill to do it, that's why it's not a big deal. i'm not sure why you talk about this so much, protoss can make shit like this work even if it's not a blind counter and now it was just that.
or if it is a big deal, basically you're saying no terran should ever go cc 1st because they get cheesed and lose. in that case, great analysis there.
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Goddamn twitch. Anybody got the link to that Swedish site that usually streams DH?
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On December 01 2013 03:59 rinnnedor321 wrote:
i hope flash will soon invent a build that gets a thor in a decent amount of time to shut down all the blink builds
thors are 300-200 and have such high dps they decimate stalkers and zealots and sentrys.
1-2 thors nicely timed to supplement a bio build to make them immune to blink
the PROBLEM with blink is actually the forcefields. if there was no forcefields terrans could just go bio normally vs blink and be fine. thors are mostly to solve the forcefield problem
blink costs like 150/150 for the upgrade 150/100 for the twilight. thors 150/100 for the armory then 300/200 per thor. imo the cost could probably be worth it considering if you go a standard bio build into a few thors you dont need to spend 600 minerals on bunkers that you otherwise would need to get if you scout blink
getting a few thors in there imo is the best plan to combat the stupid blink stuff which put innovation behind 1000 minerals just cuz he scouted blink and tried to prepare for it
hope flash discovers the right way to everything soon!
Probably the right reaction to this is to abandond the build on the first sight of the Thor (while continuing to fake pressure) and then laugh about the two medivacs the terran misses for each Thor.
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On December 01 2013 03:55 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 03:43 Aeromi wrote:On December 01 2013 03:42 Tobblish wrote:On December 01 2013 03:41 Caladan wrote:
Why are people saying Patience is "tearing through"?
He's just abusing the bo3 format of the whole LB grid by doing all-ins and proxy gates. That was just LB finals, bo3, in 20 minutes.
Predicting his run will stop in the first BO5 he meets (now) and we will never again hear from this guy. That's just not how you become a S-class player. Stardust managed to at least win a Dreamhack. And Sora made to WCG Korean qualifier. And Naama won DreamHack Winter
lmao ^^
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On December 01 2013 03:59 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2013 03:59 rinnnedor321 wrote:
i hope flash will soon invent a build that gets a thor in a decent amount of time to shut down all the blink builds
thors are 300-200 and have such high dps they decimate stalkers and zealots and sentrys.
1-2 thors nicely timed to supplement a bio build to make them immune to blink
the PROBLEM with blink is actually the forcefields. if there was no forcefields terrans could just go bio normally vs blink and be fine. thors are mostly to solve the forcefield problem
blink costs like 150/150 for the upgrade 150/100 for the twilight. thors 150/100 for the armory then 300/200 per thor. imo the cost could probably be worth it considering if you go a standard bio build into a few thors you dont need to spend 600 minerals on bunkers that you otherwise would need to get if you scout blink
getting a few thors in there imo is the best plan to combat the stupid blink stuff which put innovation behind 1000 minerals just cuz he scouted blink and tried to prepare for it
hope flash discovers the right way to everything soon! What... I don't even...
lol i can't tell if that guy is being serious or not. anyways, if you wanna use a techlab factory against blink all-ins, make fucking siege tanks.
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On December 01 2013 03:59 rinnnedor321 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +i hope flash will soon invent a build that gets a thor in a decent amount of time to shut down all the blink builds
thors are 300-200 and have such high dps they decimate stalkers and zealots and sentrys.
thors lose to immortals but have 7range. if you add 2 thors into your normal bio tactics, the immortals wont be shooting the thors and the thors high dps will help vaporize all the gateway units since the thors would likely target the immortals near the end of the engagement
1-2 thors nicely timed to supplement a bio build to make them immune to blink
the PROBLEM with blink is actually the forcefields. if there was no forcefields terrans could just go bio normally vs blink and be fine. thors are mostly to solve the forcefield problem
blink costs like 150/150 for the upgrade 150/100 for the twilight. thors 150/100 for the armory then 300/200 per thor. imo the cost could probably be worth it considering if you go a standard bio build into a few thors you dont need to spend 600 minerals on bunkers that you otherwise would need to get if you scout blink
getting a few thors in there imo is the best plan to combat the stupid blink stuff which put innovation behind 1000 minerals just cuz he scouted blink and tried to prepare for it
hope flash discovers the right way to everything soon!
Except Blink stalkers are so much more mobile than Thors, which is still an advantage. I don't see why terran's don't rush for mines because there's no way to have an obs out by then and one or two good hits shuts that down completely while giving the player time to build up for the next push and get defense in order. I think that would be more effective since the mines are much more mobile than Thors.
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That monitor looks good, might buy it since I've to change mine 
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how were the innovation vs patience games?
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On December 01 2013 03:52 Shikyo wrote:
How on earth does a bo3 benefit "a style"?
Consider the following, there are two starcraft players X and Y, X is slightly better at starcraft and he wins 60% of the games he plays against Y leaving Y to win only 40% . It is entirely possible for Y to play a set number of games with X and win more than him, but if X and Y were to play a million games of starcraft the probability that Y would win more games than X is VERY close to 0 like .000000001% . However if they were to play a 3 games (as in a bo3) the probability that Y would win more games is like 32 percent.
Most of the time playing cheesy doesn't result in a win rate of >50% in starcraft II (the exception being in the early days when tournaments were dominated by 1 base scv pulls) because as the game gets figured out and some of those strategies are patched out they lose their effectiveness. But even without a >50% winrate it's totally possible to beat superior opponents.
TL;DR Lower amounts of games in a series mean it is more likely for inferior opponents to advance.
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EPT
