• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 06:45
CET 12:45
KST 20:45
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT25Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book17Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0241LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)46Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker16
StarCraft 2
General
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Liquipedia WCS Portal Launched Kaelaris on the futue of SC2 and much more... How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game?
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) How do the "codes" work in GSL? LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 512 Overclocked Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth
Brood War
General
Do you consider PvZ imbalanced? Recent recommended BW games BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion CasterMuse Youtube
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Fighting Spirit mining rates Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Diablo 2 thread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Ask and answer stupid questions here! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Inside the Communication of …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1807 users

[WCS EU] Group G Challenger Season 3 2013 - Page 44

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 42 43 44 45 46 Next All
Aeromi
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
France14461 Posts
October 22 2013 20:37 GMT
#861
On October 23 2013 05:34 Boucot wrote:
Blizzard should send a Hearthstone key to every viewer who watched the game.

We are real fans.
https://twitter.com/DrAeromi | Updates on live tournaments: @StarCrafteSport
mcc
Profile Joined October 2010
Czech Republic4646 Posts
October 22 2013 20:38 GMT
#862
On October 23 2013 05:30 unigolyn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2013 05:26 mcc wrote:
On October 23 2013 05:20 unigolyn wrote:
On October 23 2013 05:14 mcc wrote:
On October 23 2013 05:13 unigolyn wrote:
On October 23 2013 05:11 mcc wrote:
On October 23 2013 05:09 unigolyn wrote:
On October 23 2013 05:08 Heartland wrote:
@mouzMaNa 1m

Blizzard. Your move.


So that was basically a three-hour balance whine?

Design whine, not balance I would say. He can always just all-in all games as it was in WoL and I think he can get to close to balanced situation.


The game doesn't need to be balanced for mined-out late games.

I just said that it is not about balance, but about design. Why are you replying with balance ?


Because saying "design" instead of "balance" is like saying "Intelligent Design" instead of "creationism".

Your point is not that the game is badly designed, your point is that Mana couldn't win against late game Swarm Hosts. That is a balance complaint. In this ideally designed game, all armies would be equally matched in the super late game. 99% of games don't get to that point, so it's pointless to design to that.

The "point" Mana was attempting to make was an exercise in idiocy, as far as I'm concerned.

No, there is difference between design and balance. SH are stupidly designed unit, period. If Mana won by some miracle, it would still be true. Plus you can have balanced matchup, yet valid design concerns. If Protoss can achieve 50% winrate by appropriate mixing in of all-ins, it is balanced matchup, but can still be stupidly designed matchup.


Balance whine doesn't mean complaining that there's not a 50% winrate. Balance whining means complaining that race X is overpowered.

Why are SH a stupidly designed unit? Obviously the comp Firecake was on was pretty much unbeatable, but why did Mana let him get to that point?

I just don't see most PvZ's ending up in SH stalemates.

It is badly designed, because it is boring to watch, encourages boring playstyle. Why are you so fixated on the balance still or what composition is unbeatable. Unbeatable compositions are ok, if they can end the game quickly. Even BL+infestor in WoL was better at it. The concept of spawning units that can cross half of the map is plainly bad as it only encourages defensive playstyle, especially when coupled with theoretically infinite moving defensive structures.
Yello
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany7411 Posts
October 22 2013 20:38 GMT
#863
Poll: Recommend Final Match Game 2?

★ - Do not see this game no matter what (10)
 
77%

★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
 
15%

★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year (1)
 
8%

★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
 
0%

★★★ - Good game (0)
 
0%

13 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Final Match Game 2?

(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year
(Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★ - Good game
(Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what


Poll: Recommend Final Match Game 3?

★ - Do not see this game no matter what (3)
 
50%

★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
 
33%

★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year (1)
 
17%

★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
 
0%

★★★ - Good game (0)
 
0%

6 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Final Match Game 3?

(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year
(Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★ - Good game
(Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what

Just ahead of time, know your addiction's not a crime. It's just a smaller part of who you want to become in the end.
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
October 22 2013 20:38 GMT
#864
So like 41/44 pages in the LR thread were devoted to 1 game
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
lolfail9001
Profile Joined August 2013
Russian Federation40190 Posts
October 22 2013 20:38 GMT
#865
On October 23 2013 05:38 Shellshock wrote:
So like 41/44 pages in the LR thread were devoted to 1 game

Sign of a good game.
DeMoN pulls off a Miracle and Flies to the Moon
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
October 22 2013 20:38 GMT
#866
On October 23 2013 05:38 lolfail9001 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2013 05:38 Shellshock wrote:
So like 41/44 pages in the LR thread were devoted to 1 game

Sign of a good game.

to be fair it was probably about proportional in game length
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
Boucot
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
France15997 Posts
October 22 2013 20:39 GMT
#867
This series was ridiculously short.
Former SC2 writer for Millenium - twitter.com/Boucot
grigorin
Profile Joined December 2009
Austria275 Posts
October 22 2013 20:39 GMT
#868
poor Mana T_T
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
October 22 2013 20:40 GMT
#869
On October 23 2013 05:38 Shellshock wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2013 05:38 lolfail9001 wrote:
On October 23 2013 05:38 Shellshock wrote:
So like 41/44 pages in the LR thread were devoted to 1 game

Sign of a good game.

to be fair it was probably about proportional in game length


That game was longer than most GSL finals.
lolfail9001
Profile Joined August 2013
Russian Federation40190 Posts
October 22 2013 20:41 GMT
#870
On October 23 2013 05:38 Shellshock wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2013 05:38 lolfail9001 wrote:
On October 23 2013 05:38 Shellshock wrote:
So like 41/44 pages in the LR thread were devoted to 1 game

Sign of a good game.

to be fair it was probably about proportional in game length

Well, could be true. But man, that game revived Sc2, it was that 'good'
DeMoN pulls off a Miracle and Flies to the Moon
lolfail9001
Profile Joined August 2013
Russian Federation40190 Posts
October 22 2013 20:41 GMT
#871
On October 23 2013 05:39 Boucot wrote:
This series was ridiculously short.

Compared to that 1 game every GSL final was short. Except perhaps MMA vs DRG.
DeMoN pulls off a Miracle and Flies to the Moon
Aeromi
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
France14461 Posts
October 22 2013 20:42 GMT
#872
On October 23 2013 05:41 lolfail9001 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2013 05:39 Boucot wrote:
This series was ridiculously short.

Compared to that 1 game every GSL final was short. Except perhaps MMA vs DRG.

MVP vs Squirtle.
https://twitter.com/DrAeromi | Updates on live tournaments: @StarCrafteSport
Crownlol
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3726 Posts
October 22 2013 20:45 GMT
#873
So did they play the rest of the games or not
shaGuar :: elemeNt :: XeqtR :: naikon :: method
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
October 22 2013 20:46 GMT
#874
yea all the games are done
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
oGoZenob
Profile Joined December 2011
France1503 Posts
October 22 2013 20:47 GMT
#875
On October 23 2013 05:31 lolfail9001 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2013 05:30 oGoZenob wrote:
On October 23 2013 05:28 Zealously wrote:
that 100-minute farmfest at TI3

what was that ?

The game where divine rapier was actually used. Also, game with 12 slot Burning.

I... don't understand these words
I guess that we're not talking about sc2 anymore ^^
I like starcraft
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
October 22 2013 20:48 GMT
#876
On October 23 2013 05:30 mcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2013 05:24 SafeAsCheese wrote:
On October 23 2013 05:23 mcc wrote:
On October 23 2013 05:19 SafeAsCheese wrote:
On October 23 2013 05:16 mcc wrote:
On October 23 2013 05:14 SafeAsCheese wrote:
On October 23 2013 05:13 mcc wrote:
Also I think he should have done what Socke suggested, sat on top of his ramp with 200/200 army, forcfields and 10k gas bank. The game would be like 15hrs and SC2 would actually become real sport as weak players would die


If I hosted a tourney and players did that, I would disqualify both of them for making no attempt to end it.

Frankly at that point I think protoss by doing that is doing his best to achieve best possible result - draw. There is no reasonable argument for punishing that. I doubt there is any way that protoss can actually win if game is at that stage. Like in chess, if you can't win, play for draw.


Except firezerg was able to win by siege hoping his swarm hosts and doing a muta remax.

He made no attempt to that game. In his position, I would have won a few hours ago.

There has almost never been a point in SC2 where neither player can win due to infinite defense on both sides. firezerg had the perfect defense that game, mana did not, he was quite weak to be honest

How are you going to use SH against forcefields on the ramp ? How are you going to lose enough units to do effective muta switch without risking loss ? How are you going to use your muta remax against archon/storm/guardian/tempest ?


Very slowly. Zerg has tools to break any defense (see : the viper)

And as I pointed out, yes, FireCake would have won, but it would not be 3 hours, more like 6+.


nah as a protoss you can block your main ramp and then just camp it out and whatever the Zerg tries they will lose more resources. Because the Protoss can actually use their static defense in that situation. So Vipers are snipeable and will only get 1 ht at best per dead viper.
lolfail9001
Profile Joined August 2013
Russian Federation40190 Posts
October 22 2013 20:49 GMT
#877
On October 23 2013 05:47 oGoZenob wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2013 05:31 lolfail9001 wrote:
On October 23 2013 05:30 oGoZenob wrote:
On October 23 2013 05:28 Zealously wrote:
that 100-minute farmfest at TI3

what was that ?

The game where divine rapier was actually used. Also, game with 12 slot Burning.

I... don't understand these words
I guess that we're not talking about sc2 anymore ^^

Shortly put: this is dota 2 version of this game. And it was shorter.
DeMoN pulls off a Miracle and Flies to the Moon
lolfail9001
Profile Joined August 2013
Russian Federation40190 Posts
October 22 2013 20:50 GMT
#878
On October 23 2013 05:48 FeyFey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2013 05:30 mcc wrote:
On October 23 2013 05:24 SafeAsCheese wrote:
On October 23 2013 05:23 mcc wrote:
On October 23 2013 05:19 SafeAsCheese wrote:
On October 23 2013 05:16 mcc wrote:
On October 23 2013 05:14 SafeAsCheese wrote:
On October 23 2013 05:13 mcc wrote:
Also I think he should have done what Socke suggested, sat on top of his ramp with 200/200 army, forcfields and 10k gas bank. The game would be like 15hrs and SC2 would actually become real sport as weak players would die


If I hosted a tourney and players did that, I would disqualify both of them for making no attempt to end it.

Frankly at that point I think protoss by doing that is doing his best to achieve best possible result - draw. There is no reasonable argument for punishing that. I doubt there is any way that protoss can actually win if game is at that stage. Like in chess, if you can't win, play for draw.


Except firezerg was able to win by siege hoping his swarm hosts and doing a muta remax.

He made no attempt to that game. In his position, I would have won a few hours ago.

There has almost never been a point in SC2 where neither player can win due to infinite defense on both sides. firezerg had the perfect defense that game, mana did not, he was quite weak to be honest

How are you going to use SH against forcefields on the ramp ? How are you going to lose enough units to do effective muta switch without risking loss ? How are you going to use your muta remax against archon/storm/guardian/tempest ?


Very slowly. Zerg has tools to break any defense (see : the viper)

And as I pointed out, yes, FireCake would have won, but it would not be 3 hours, more like 6+.


nah as a protoss you can block your main ramp and then just camp it out and whatever the Zerg tries they will lose more resources. Because the Protoss can actually use their static defense in that situation. So Vipers are snipeable and will only get 1 ht at best per dead viper.

Suddenly MaNa could have finished the game in unwinnable position for both sides?
DeMoN pulls off a Miracle and Flies to the Moon
Darkhorse
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States23455 Posts
October 22 2013 21:11 GMT
#879
I'm moderately surprised that game ended while I was gone. I left at 1:54 game time. But sucks that after all that, Bling 2-0d Mana.
WriterRecently Necro'd (?)
MisterTea
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1047 Posts
October 22 2013 21:13 GMT
#880
On October 23 2013 05:37 Aeromi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2013 05:34 Boucot wrote:
Blizzard should send a Hearthstone key to every viewer who watched the game.

We are real fans.

I just got a key in my email, weird
Prev 1 42 43 44 45 46 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
Weekly #120
Percival vs ShamelessLIVE!
Creator vs Krystianer
Zoun vs TBD
CranKy Ducklings108
LiquipediaDiscussion
PiG Sty Festival
09:00
Group D
YoungYakov vs ShoWTimELIVE!
ByuN vs Serral
PiGStarcraft1372
TKL 287
IndyStarCraft 230
BRAT_OK 170
Rex136
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft1372
TKL 287
IndyStarCraft 230
BRAT_OK 170
Rex 136
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 30543
Rain 7738
Calm 5557
Horang2 1201
Jaedong 799
Larva 492
actioN 433
firebathero 361
Stork 352
Zeus 337
[ Show more ]
Mini 331
Soma 226
PianO 211
Last 170
Sharp 150
Hyun 140
Killer 113
Dewaltoss 110
Rush 97
Pusan 93
hero 85
Sea.KH 53
ToSsGirL 46
Barracks 43
yabsab 42
Movie 37
Shine 34
Hm[arnc] 33
soO 33
NaDa 31
sorry 23
Backho 23
Noble 21
Sacsri 17
zelot 16
Terrorterran 9
Dota 2
XaKoH 628
XcaliburYe203
NeuroSwarm100
canceldota98
Counter-Strike
zeus1483
m0e_tv795
x6flipin364
edward144
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King105
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor203
MindelVK10
Other Games
singsing1936
B2W.Neo1030
ToD120
DeMusliM0
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL6111
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 11
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota294
League of Legends
• Jankos2644
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
12h 16m
Replay Cast
21h 16m
Wardi Open
1d
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 5h
WardiTV Winter Champion…
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
SC Evo Complete
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
WardiTV Winter 2026
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025

Upcoming

Acropolis #4 - TS5
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.