Incredible tournament! Great casting from apollo and artosis and InconTROLL was a funny host along with Take. Awesome job dreamhack and glad Leenock won, he played so well. Those tech switches must have been hard for NaniWa to try and deal with but he still did really well to make it 3-2 against a player like Leenock imo. GG! Can't wait for DreamHack Winter on 15-18 June (if i remember correctly :D )
On April 28 2013 20:36 Zeon0 wrote: if Leenock is that good and Naniwa that bad, why could Nani take two games?
Naniwa did really well in the finals. The wins he got were mostly from 2 base timings but you can't really blame him Most of players tried to macro against Leenock and that didn't end well (18-1 before finals..)
I'm not Naniwa fan, I don't actually like that guy at all and was rooting for Leenock to win the tournament from very beginning. But still Naniwa did really great job overall.
I still think that Leenock > Naniwa by alot if they had like best of 7 or something I think naniwa might have lost pretty bad but with best of 3 and best of 5 he really shined with his gateway openings (Some koreans struggled a lot against it. Not sure but maybe protoss in korea does not do that really much)
JD vs Naniwa was great example how naniwa can mix his play. IMO jd did big mistake to play so similar styles maybe he was underestimating Naniwa. Also it was great for Naniwa that JD won GuMiho I think gumiho might have been way harder for naniwa to beat.
and btw, that Leenock ultralisk thing looks epic I have to try that online :D
Of all the people that could have played the finals against Leenock, Naniwa was the worst and weakest choice. He cheesed his way to the finals and was the the least prepared and least capable player. I think he probably understands, that he should have lost to TLO/Jaedong, who are much better and more talented than him and could have beaten Leenock.
The result 3:2 sounds pretty impressive to someone who has not watched the finals, but in reality Naniwa didn't have a chance at any point. Yeah his all in play may work in best of 3, but it doesn't in best of 5. Jaedong would have crushed him in bo5. And Leenock crushed him in the finals, not because Zerg is OP, but because Naniwa basically plays 1 very all-in ish build and the only other thing he did was to cheese. He was outplayed by TLO and by Jaedong, and in every game against Leenock. That proxy gate in game 2 against Jaedong was the most pathetic thing I've seen in this entire tournament.
You're either trolling or worse. The series was close and Nani could have won it if he brought his phoenixes to defend vs Leenocks ultra/queen attack.
well naniwa made it look close in the finals, but let's be realistic. he wouldn't ever beat leenock 2 months ago in wol. he had the easiest path possible to the finals, and he cheesed a lot, and btw the timings and metagame isn't figured out enough. leenock also played a pretty strange style, staying on lings for too long in the majority of the games and trying to 3base hive. maybe he got cocky because he beat grubby so easily? and people are reading too much into the jaedong games. it's not like jaedong is considered even a top 10 zerg, and his zvp especially isn't.
bottom line, Naniwa had a good run, but let's not get carried away. leenock's road to finals was about 15 times as hard, and it wasn't a question that he wins the whole thing after the quarterfinals. now we have a pretty fresh game where there are new strategies and timings coming every day, nothing is figured out, and fanboys chanting "best foreigner in the world" etc. are annoying as shit.
You sure are a hater.
Naniwa: Group stage #2 opponents: Center, Tod, Buffy Group stage #3 opponents: HyuN, YugiOh, MC Playoffs: TLO, SortOf, Jaedong
Leenock: Group stage #2 opponents: HuK, SjoW, Dayshi Group stage #3 opponents: GuMiho, Ret, Sage Playoffs: Grubby, Coca, HerO
What was it that was 15 times as hard?
Everyone knows TLO is an innovator which blooms out in the early stages after a new game or expansion has been released. Should at least be seen as an equal to Grubby.
SortOf is an up and coming player who recently has taken down both koreans and good foreigners. Coca, switched to LoL and hasn't been focusing on SC2 for a while.
Both Jaedong and HerO are great players.
Give Naniwa the cred he deserves. He is one of the best foreigners, maybe the best.
Naniwa played good but he is NOT the best foreigner and on top of that his path to finals was a lot easier and though he struggled a lot more than he should have. I don't give him no credit but I really can't stand this "roflmao, he beat JD and is playing the finals, he must be best foreigner!!" attitude.
Group stage #2 opponents: Center, Tod, Buffy He nearly got eliminated in that group. His results were 0-2 Center, 2-1 ToD, 2-1 Buffy. If that makes him best foreigner... I don't know.
Group stage #3 opponents: HyuN, YugiOh, MC At first glance making it out of that group is rather amazing but lets take a closer look: 1-2 Hyun nothing outstanding here, though a mapwin against hyun speaks for itself. 2-1 MC not really outstanding since MC is losing to foreign Protoss left and right - at least against the good ones like Grubby, Huk and Mana. 2-0 YugiOh which is a good result but you may have to keep in mind that yugioh had to play 2 (or 3?) tiebreakers beforehand.
Playoffs: TLO, SortOf, Jaedong probably the easiest run possible. Especially because he had to play just 1 single matchup.
Excluding the finals his score was: 0:2 vs T 4:2 vs P 11:5 vs Z
As I said naniwa played a good tournament but would he have gotten Grubbys, Stephanos or HuKs playoffspot instead of his own I doubt he could have made it to the finals. His tournament performance basically was given due to his PvZ Matchup and tbh I don't really like his style there although it seems to be very effective.
On April 28 2013 17:09 Delicious Insanity wrote: Dat Nani colossus pick up micro.
I will never understand why people are impressed by Protoss warp prism micro. I mean the action itself is easy and it isn't like the Protoss is doing other stuff. They don't have to inject constantly so I don't see why picking something up and putting it down is so special (I see masters and below do it all the time).
So much biased in this post Inject constantly? Not even close to "constantly" and second, protoss has to warpin units? Control his main armee?
Keep Chronoboosting to maintain efficiency every 25 seconds as well...
Zergs talk about inject as if it's the hardest thing in the world...
There's a reason your Zerg ladder opponents have over twice your apm.
Zerg have twice the apm cuz if they press their hatchery hotkey, press S and just hold down the button for making whatever unit every single actoin counts, not like when for example when toss are warping in when they actually have to press every unit, not just holding down a button
On April 28 2013 17:09 Delicious Insanity wrote: Dat Nani colossus pick up micro.
I will never understand why people are impressed by Protoss warp prism micro. I mean the action itself is easy and it isn't like the Protoss is doing other stuff. They don't have to inject constantly so I don't see why picking something up and putting it down is so special (I see masters and below do it all the time).
So much biased in this post Inject constantly? Not even close to "constantly" and second, protoss has to warpin units? Control his main armee?
Keep Chronoboosting to maintain efficiency every 25 seconds as well...
Zergs talk about inject as if it's the hardest thing in the world...
There's a reason your Zerg ladder opponents have over twice your apm.
Zerg have twice the apm cuz if they press their hatchery hotkey, press S and just hold down the button for making whatever unit every single actoin counts, not like when for example when toss are warping in when they actually have to press every unit, not just holding down a button
Of all the people that could have played the finals against Leenock, Naniwa was the worst and weakest choice. He cheesed his way to the finals and was the the least prepared and least capable player. I think he probably understands, that he should have lost to TLO/Jaedong, who are much better and more talented than him and could have beaten Leenock.
The result 3:2 sounds pretty impressive to someone who has not watched the finals, but in reality Naniwa didn't have a chance at any point. Yeah his all in play may work in best of 3, but it doesn't in best of 5. Jaedong would have crushed him in bo5. And Leenock crushed him in the finals, not because Zerg is OP, but because Naniwa basically plays 1 very all-in ish build and the only other thing he did was to cheese. He was outplayed by TLO and by Jaedong, and in every game against Leenock. That proxy gate in game 2 against Jaedong was the most pathetic thing I've seen in this entire tournament.
You're either trolling or worse. The series was close and Nani could have won it if he brought his phoenixes to defend vs Leenocks ultra/queen attack.
well naniwa made it look close in the finals, but let's be realistic. he wouldn't ever beat leenock 2 months ago in wol. he had the easiest path possible to the finals, and he cheesed a lot, and btw the timings and metagame isn't figured out enough. leenock also played a pretty strange style, staying on lings for too long in the majority of the games and trying to 3base hive. maybe he got cocky because he beat grubby so easily? and people are reading too much into the jaedong games. it's not like jaedong is considered even a top 10 zerg, and his zvp especially isn't.
bottom line, Naniwa had a good run, but let's not get carried away. leenock's road to finals was about 15 times as hard, and it wasn't a question that he wins the whole thing after the quarterfinals. now we have a pretty fresh game where there are new strategies and timings coming every day, nothing is figured out, and fanboys chanting "best foreigner in the world" etc. are annoying as shit.
You sure are a hater.
Naniwa: Group stage #2 opponents: Center, Tod, Buffy Group stage #3 opponents: HyuN, YugiOh, MC Playoffs: TLO, SortOf, Jaedong
Leenock: Group stage #2 opponents: HuK, SjoW, Dayshi Group stage #3 opponents: GuMiho, Ret, Sage Playoffs: Grubby, Coca, HerO
What was it that was 15 times as hard?
Everyone knows TLO is an innovator which blooms out in the early stages after a new game or expansion has been released. Should at least be seen as an equal to Grubby.
SortOf is an up and coming player who recently has taken down both koreans and good foreigners. Coca, switched to LoL and hasn't been focusing on SC2 for a while.
Both Jaedong and HerO are great players.
Give Naniwa the cred he deserves. He is one of the best foreigners, maybe the best.
Naniwa played good but he is NOT the best foreigner and on top of that his path to finals was a lot easier and though he struggled a lot more than he should have. I don't give him no credit but I really can't stand this "roflmao, he beat JD and is playing the finals, he must be best foreigner!!" attitude.
If Nani is not the best foreigner, then who do u think is?
why are people whining about how naniwa played? first off naniwa is a foreigner and leenock is a top korean so why the hell wouldnt naniwa go for optimized timing builds which he knows perfectly and feels comfortable with, rather than going for an open macro game where the possibilities to make mistakes and leenock to capitalize on them are much higher in numbers. also the builds were not coinflips but intelligent timings, especially the collosuss timing right before ultra which he used against both jaedong and leenock. the only coinflip he ever used was the proxy gates against JD. and even that is no reason to hate on him or his playstyle. nobody gets mad at the hundreds of all ins used by koreans against koreans in code S. leenock is undoubtedly the overall stronger player and naniwa knows this. he simply played in a way that brought him very close to winning the tourney. actually he should have won, considering that he had 5 phoenix to lift all of leenocks queens in the game on star station but simply forgot about them. he was not outplayed in any of the games and he did not outplay leenock in any of the games. he simply decided to heavily rely on optimized timings to defeat leenock. the people who are calling naniwa best foreigner right now however are just as idiotic as the people hating on his playstyle and calling him bad. the way naniwa played yesterday can not be used as an indicator of his skill for several reasons:
1. its only one matchup 2. he used strats which are not hard to execute and are designed to simply break certain other builds as long as u dont screw up, thus leaving it up to the zerg to scout and prepare accordingly in which case your bust should not work. 3. using these games as an indicator of skill for naniwa would be like saying that bitbybit was top 8 in the world during his gsl run.
saying that naniwa is the best foreigner because he managed to take 2 games of off leenock with abusive metagame dependent all ins, is just silly. saying that it is pathetic to use these builds is also silly. All these games show is that naniwa is quite good at chosing certain builds for certain maps and isnt afraid to use abusive builds which make zerg fanboys rage about how he doesnt deserve his spot. He won the games he deserves his spot end of story.
Of all the people that could have played the finals against Leenock, Naniwa was the worst and weakest choice. He cheesed his way to the finals and was the the least prepared and least capable player. I think he probably understands, that he should have lost to TLO/Jaedong, who are much better and more talented than him and could have beaten Leenock.
The result 3:2 sounds pretty impressive to someone who has not watched the finals, but in reality Naniwa didn't have a chance at any point. Yeah his all in play may work in best of 3, but it doesn't in best of 5. Jaedong would have crushed him in bo5. And Leenock crushed him in the finals, not because Zerg is OP, but because Naniwa basically plays 1 very all-in ish build and the only other thing he did was to cheese. He was outplayed by TLO and by Jaedong, and in every game against Leenock. That proxy gate in game 2 against Jaedong was the most pathetic thing I've seen in this entire tournament.
You're either trolling or worse. The series was close and Nani could have won it if he brought his phoenixes to defend vs Leenocks ultra/queen attack.
well naniwa made it look close in the finals, but let's be realistic. he wouldn't ever beat leenock 2 months ago in wol. he had the easiest path possible to the finals, and he cheesed a lot, and btw the timings and metagame isn't figured out enough. leenock also played a pretty strange style, staying on lings for too long in the majority of the games and trying to 3base hive. maybe he got cocky because he beat grubby so easily? and people are reading too much into the jaedong games. it's not like jaedong is considered even a top 10 zerg, and his zvp especially isn't.
bottom line, Naniwa had a good run, but let's not get carried away. leenock's road to finals was about 15 times as hard, and it wasn't a question that he wins the whole thing after the quarterfinals. now we have a pretty fresh game where there are new strategies and timings coming every day, nothing is figured out, and fanboys chanting "best foreigner in the world" etc. are annoying as shit.
You sure are a hater.
Naniwa: Group stage #2 opponents: Center, Tod, Buffy Group stage #3 opponents: HyuN, YugiOh, MC Playoffs: TLO, SortOf, Jaedong
Leenock: Group stage #2 opponents: HuK, SjoW, Dayshi Group stage #3 opponents: GuMiho, Ret, Sage Playoffs: Grubby, Coca, HerO
What was it that was 15 times as hard?
Everyone knows TLO is an innovator which blooms out in the early stages after a new game or expansion has been released. Should at least be seen as an equal to Grubby.
SortOf is an up and coming player who recently has taken down both koreans and good foreigners. Coca, switched to LoL and hasn't been focusing on SC2 for a while.
Both Jaedong and HerO are great players.
Give Naniwa the cred he deserves. He is one of the best foreigners, maybe the best.
Naniwa played good but he is NOT the best foreigner and on top of that his path to finals was a lot easier and though he struggled a lot more than he should have. I don't give him no credit but I really can't stand this "roflmao, he beat JD and is playing the finals, he must be best foreigner!!" attitude.
If Nani is not the best foreigner, then who do u think is?
There is none. Sounds stupid but for me there is no foreigner who is really outstanding in every matchup right know. And therefore I would not give the "best foreigner" title to anyone right now.
Of all the people that could have played the finals against Leenock, Naniwa was the worst and weakest choice. He cheesed his way to the finals and was the the least prepared and least capable player. I think he probably understands, that he should have lost to TLO/Jaedong, who are much better and more talented than him and could have beaten Leenock.
The result 3:2 sounds pretty impressive to someone who has not watched the finals, but in reality Naniwa didn't have a chance at any point. Yeah his all in play may work in best of 3, but it doesn't in best of 5. Jaedong would have crushed him in bo5. And Leenock crushed him in the finals, not because Zerg is OP, but because Naniwa basically plays 1 very all-in ish build and the only other thing he did was to cheese. He was outplayed by TLO and by Jaedong, and in every game against Leenock. That proxy gate in game 2 against Jaedong was the most pathetic thing I've seen in this entire tournament.
You're either trolling or worse. The series was close and Nani could have won it if he brought his phoenixes to defend vs Leenocks ultra/queen attack.
well naniwa made it look close in the finals, but let's be realistic. he wouldn't ever beat leenock 2 months ago in wol. he had the easiest path possible to the finals, and he cheesed a lot, and btw the timings and metagame isn't figured out enough. leenock also played a pretty strange style, staying on lings for too long in the majority of the games and trying to 3base hive. maybe he got cocky because he beat grubby so easily? and people are reading too much into the jaedong games. it's not like jaedong is considered even a top 10 zerg, and his zvp especially isn't.
bottom line, Naniwa had a good run, but let's not get carried away. leenock's road to finals was about 15 times as hard, and it wasn't a question that he wins the whole thing after the quarterfinals. now we have a pretty fresh game where there are new strategies and timings coming every day, nothing is figured out, and fanboys chanting "best foreigner in the world" etc. are annoying as shit.
You sure are a hater.
Naniwa: Group stage #2 opponents: Center, Tod, Buffy Group stage #3 opponents: HyuN, YugiOh, MC Playoffs: TLO, SortOf, Jaedong
Leenock: Group stage #2 opponents: HuK, SjoW, Dayshi Group stage #3 opponents: GuMiho, Ret, Sage Playoffs: Grubby, Coca, HerO
What was it that was 15 times as hard?
Everyone knows TLO is an innovator which blooms out in the early stages after a new game or expansion has been released. Should at least be seen as an equal to Grubby.
SortOf is an up and coming player who recently has taken down both koreans and good foreigners. Coca, switched to LoL and hasn't been focusing on SC2 for a while.
Both Jaedong and HerO are great players.
Give Naniwa the cred he deserves. He is one of the best foreigners, maybe the best.
dude naniwa lost 2 of those matches and gumiho+sage+hero is harder than anything naniwa faced in the tournament.
naniwa is certainly one of the best foreigners, noone denies that. that "maybe the best" comment is what is absolutely unnecessary, it's just annoying hype. mana and other players are arguably just as succesful vs koreans at the moment, and the game is still being figured out. it was like 1-2 months ago when naniwa was raped by bly and dimaga, and people are flooding the forums with comments like this, beceause even though naniwa is like the most unlikeable person ever, he has an odd and ridiculously biased following.
but aside of this, i don't think anyone denied here that he is a good player and he had a good run. that guy some posts above described it well, his micro is very good and he is good at innovating timings. he knows how to play a tournament, he mixes up his play and plans well etc. but why is the overhype necessary? there is a golden middle between belittling him out of bias and overhyping him out of bias, and that middle is realism, but it seems like fanboys are really offended if someone doesn't think he is some sort of god amongst the foreigners and has the hardest road in the world in the tournaments. because without this you are not a true naniwa fan. and this is probably what causes all these "hate" posts, because it's annoying as fuck
cheesy/aggresive playstyle like naniwas get always all the hate but for the crowd, its probably the best one to watch imho. coz nothing is more lame to watch, as 10-15min simcity passive play from both sides... specially toss camping behind gate/forge/pylon wall.
Of all the people that could have played the finals against Leenock, Naniwa was the worst and weakest choice. He cheesed his way to the finals and was the the least prepared and least capable player. I think he probably understands, that he should have lost to TLO/Jaedong, who are much better and more talented than him and could have beaten Leenock.
The result 3:2 sounds pretty impressive to someone who has not watched the finals, but in reality Naniwa didn't have a chance at any point. Yeah his all in play may work in best of 3, but it doesn't in best of 5. Jaedong would have crushed him in bo5. And Leenock crushed him in the finals, not because Zerg is OP, but because Naniwa basically plays 1 very all-in ish build and the only other thing he did was to cheese. He was outplayed by TLO and by Jaedong, and in every game against Leenock. That proxy gate in game 2 against Jaedong was the most pathetic thing I've seen in this entire tournament.
You're either trolling or worse. The series was close and Nani could have won it if he brought his phoenixes to defend vs Leenocks ultra/queen attack.
well naniwa made it look close in the finals, but let's be realistic. he wouldn't ever beat leenock 2 months ago in wol. he had the easiest path possible to the finals, and he cheesed a lot, and btw the timings and metagame isn't figured out enough. leenock also played a pretty strange style, staying on lings for too long in the majority of the games and trying to 3base hive. maybe he got cocky because he beat grubby so easily? and people are reading too much into the jaedong games. it's not like jaedong is considered even a top 10 zerg, and his zvp especially isn't.
bottom line, Naniwa had a good run, but let's not get carried away. leenock's road to finals was about 15 times as hard, and it wasn't a question that he wins the whole thing after the quarterfinals. now we have a pretty fresh game where there are new strategies and timings coming every day, nothing is figured out, and fanboys chanting "best foreigner in the world" etc. are annoying as shit.
You sure are a hater.
Naniwa: Group stage #2 opponents: Center, Tod, Buffy Group stage #3 opponents: HyuN, YugiOh, MC Playoffs: TLO, SortOf, Jaedong
Leenock: Group stage #2 opponents: HuK, SjoW, Dayshi Group stage #3 opponents: GuMiho, Ret, Sage Playoffs: Grubby, Coca, HerO
What was it that was 15 times as hard?
Everyone knows TLO is an innovator which blooms out in the early stages after a new game or expansion has been released. Should at least be seen as an equal to Grubby.
SortOf is an up and coming player who recently has taken down both koreans and good foreigners. Coca, switched to LoL and hasn't been focusing on SC2 for a while.
Both Jaedong and HerO are great players.
Give Naniwa the cred he deserves. He is one of the best foreigners, maybe the best.
dude naniwa lost 2 of those matches and gumiho+sage+hero is harder than anything naniwa faced in the tournament.
naniwa is certainly one of the best foreigners, noone denies that. that "maybe the best" comment is what is absolutely unnecessary, it's just annoying hype. mana and other players are arguably just as succesful vs koreans at the moment, and the game is still being figured out. it was like 1-2 months ago when naniwa was raped by bly and dimaga, and people are flooding the forums with comments like this, beceause even though naniwa is like the most unlikeable person ever, he has an odd and ridiculously biased following.
but aside of this, i don't think anyone denied here that he is a good player and he had a good run. that guy some posts above described it well, his micro is very good and he is good at innovating timings. he knows how to play a tournament, he mixes up his play and plans well etc. but why is the overhype necessary? there is a golden middle between belittling him out of bias and overhyping him out of bias, and that middle is realism, but it seems like fanboys are really offended if someone doesn't think he is some sort of god amongst the foreigners and has the hardest road in the world in the tournaments. because without this you are not a true naniwa fan. and this is probably what causes all these "hate" posts, because it's annoying as fuck
Mana has no GSL achievements while Naniwa reached RO4 twice, doesn't that mean anything to you?
On April 28 2013 17:09 Delicious Insanity wrote: Dat Nani colossus pick up micro.
I will never understand why people are impressed by Protoss warp prism micro. I mean the action itself is easy and it isn't like the Protoss is doing other stuff. They don't have to inject constantly so I don't see why picking something up and putting it down is so special (I see masters and below do it all the time).
So much biased in this post Inject constantly? Not even close to "constantly" and second, protoss has to warpin units? Control his main armee?
Keep Chronoboosting to maintain efficiency every 25 seconds as well...
Zergs talk about inject as if it's the hardest thing in the world...
There's a reason your Zerg ladder opponents have over twice your apm.
Zerg have twice the apm cuz if they press their hatchery hotkey, press S and just hold down the button for making whatever unit every single actoin counts, not like when for example when toss are warping in when they actually have to press every unit, not just holding down a button
Of all the people that could have played the finals against Leenock, Naniwa was the worst and weakest choice. He cheesed his way to the finals and was the the least prepared and least capable player. I think he probably understands, that he should have lost to TLO/Jaedong, who are much better and more talented than him and could have beaten Leenock.
The result 3:2 sounds pretty impressive to someone who has not watched the finals, but in reality Naniwa didn't have a chance at any point. Yeah his all in play may work in best of 3, but it doesn't in best of 5. Jaedong would have crushed him in bo5. And Leenock crushed him in the finals, not because Zerg is OP, but because Naniwa basically plays 1 very all-in ish build and the only other thing he did was to cheese. He was outplayed by TLO and by Jaedong, and in every game against Leenock. That proxy gate in game 2 against Jaedong was the most pathetic thing I've seen in this entire tournament.
You're either trolling or worse. The series was close and Nani could have won it if he brought his phoenixes to defend vs Leenocks ultra/queen attack.
well naniwa made it look close in the finals, but let's be realistic. he wouldn't ever beat leenock 2 months ago in wol. he had the easiest path possible to the finals, and he cheesed a lot, and btw the timings and metagame isn't figured out enough. leenock also played a pretty strange style, staying on lings for too long in the majority of the games and trying to 3base hive. maybe he got cocky because he beat grubby so easily? and people are reading too much into the jaedong games. it's not like jaedong is considered even a top 10 zerg, and his zvp especially isn't.
bottom line, Naniwa had a good run, but let's not get carried away. leenock's road to finals was about 15 times as hard, and it wasn't a question that he wins the whole thing after the quarterfinals. now we have a pretty fresh game where there are new strategies and timings coming every day, nothing is figured out, and fanboys chanting "best foreigner in the world" etc. are annoying as shit.
You sure are a hater.
Naniwa: Group stage #2 opponents: Center, Tod, Buffy Group stage #3 opponents: HyuN, YugiOh, MC Playoffs: TLO, SortOf, Jaedong
Leenock: Group stage #2 opponents: HuK, SjoW, Dayshi Group stage #3 opponents: GuMiho, Ret, Sage Playoffs: Grubby, Coca, HerO
What was it that was 15 times as hard?
Everyone knows TLO is an innovator which blooms out in the early stages after a new game or expansion has been released. Should at least be seen as an equal to Grubby.
SortOf is an up and coming player who recently has taken down both koreans and good foreigners. Coca, switched to LoL and hasn't been focusing on SC2 for a while.
Both Jaedong and HerO are great players.
Give Naniwa the cred he deserves. He is one of the best foreigners, maybe the best.
dude naniwa lost 2 of those matches and gumiho+sage+hero is harder than anything naniwa faced in the tournament.
naniwa is certainly one of the best foreigners, noone denies that. that "maybe the best" comment is what is absolutely unnecessary, it's just annoying hype. mana and other players are arguably just as succesful vs koreans at the moment, and the game is still being figured out. it was like 1-2 months ago when naniwa was raped by bly and dimaga, and people are flooding the forums with comments like this, beceause even though naniwa is like the most unlikeable person ever, he has an odd and ridiculously biased following.
but aside of this, i don't think anyone denied here that he is a good player and he had a good run. that guy some posts above described it well, his micro is very good and he is good at innovating timings. he knows how to play a tournament, he mixes up his play and plans well etc. but why is the overhype necessary? there is a golden middle between belittling him out of bias and overhyping him out of bias, and that middle is realism, but it seems like fanboys are really offended if someone doesn't think he is some sort of god amongst the foreigners and has the hardest road in the world in the tournaments. because without this you are not a true naniwa fan. and this is probably what causes all these "hate" posts, because it's annoying as fuck
Mana has no GSL achievements while Naniwa reached RO4 twice, doesn't that mean anything to you?
On April 28 2013 21:12 jeri wrote: cheesy/aggresive playstyle like naniwas get always all the hate but for the crowd, its probably the best one to watch imho. coz nothing is more lame to watch, as 10-15min simcity passive play from both sides... specially toss camping behind gate/forge/pylon wall.
I was behind him when he played the over an hour game vs a zerg with swarm host split map. That wasn't very exciting at all
Of all the people that could have played the finals against Leenock, Naniwa was the worst and weakest choice. He cheesed his way to the finals and was the the least prepared and least capable player. I think he probably understands, that he should have lost to TLO/Jaedong, who are much better and more talented than him and could have beaten Leenock.
The result 3:2 sounds pretty impressive to someone who has not watched the finals, but in reality Naniwa didn't have a chance at any point. Yeah his all in play may work in best of 3, but it doesn't in best of 5. Jaedong would have crushed him in bo5. And Leenock crushed him in the finals, not because Zerg is OP, but because Naniwa basically plays 1 very all-in ish build and the only other thing he did was to cheese. He was outplayed by TLO and by Jaedong, and in every game against Leenock. That proxy gate in game 2 against Jaedong was the most pathetic thing I've seen in this entire tournament.
You're either trolling or worse. The series was close and Nani could have won it if he brought his phoenixes to defend vs Leenocks ultra/queen attack.
well naniwa made it look close in the finals, but let's be realistic. he wouldn't ever beat leenock 2 months ago in wol. he had the easiest path possible to the finals, and he cheesed a lot, and btw the timings and metagame isn't figured out enough. leenock also played a pretty strange style, staying on lings for too long in the majority of the games and trying to 3base hive. maybe he got cocky because he beat grubby so easily? and people are reading too much into the jaedong games. it's not like jaedong is considered even a top 10 zerg, and his zvp especially isn't.
bottom line, Naniwa had a good run, but let's not get carried away. leenock's road to finals was about 15 times as hard, and it wasn't a question that he wins the whole thing after the quarterfinals. now we have a pretty fresh game where there are new strategies and timings coming every day, nothing is figured out, and fanboys chanting "best foreigner in the world" etc. are annoying as shit.
You sure are a hater.
Naniwa: Group stage #2 opponents: Center, Tod, Buffy Group stage #3 opponents: HyuN, YugiOh, MC Playoffs: TLO, SortOf, Jaedong
Leenock: Group stage #2 opponents: HuK, SjoW, Dayshi Group stage #3 opponents: GuMiho, Ret, Sage Playoffs: Grubby, Coca, HerO
What was it that was 15 times as hard?
Everyone knows TLO is an innovator which blooms out in the early stages after a new game or expansion has been released. Should at least be seen as an equal to Grubby.
SortOf is an up and coming player who recently has taken down both koreans and good foreigners. Coca, switched to LoL and hasn't been focusing on SC2 for a while.
Both Jaedong and HerO are great players.
Give Naniwa the cred he deserves. He is one of the best foreigners, maybe the best.
dude naniwa lost 2 of those matches and gumiho+sage+hero is harder than anything naniwa faced in the tournament.
naniwa is certainly one of the best foreigners, noone denies that. that "maybe the best" comment is what is absolutely unnecessary, it's just annoying hype. mana and other players are arguably just as succesful vs koreans at the moment, and the game is still being figured out. it was like 1-2 months ago when naniwa was raped by bly and dimaga, and people are flooding the forums with comments like this, beceause even though naniwa is like the most unlikeable person ever, he has an odd and ridiculously biased following.
but aside of this, i don't think anyone denied here that he is a good player and he had a good run. that guy some posts above described it well, his micro is very good and he is good at innovating timings. he knows how to play a tournament, he mixes up his play and plans well etc. but why is the overhype necessary? there is a golden middle between belittling him out of bias and overhyping him out of bias, and that middle is realism, but it seems like fanboys are really offended if someone doesn't think he is some sort of god amongst the foreigners and has the hardest road in the world in the tournaments. because without this you are not a true naniwa fan. and this is probably what causes all these "hate" posts, because it's annoying as fuck
Mana has no GSL achievements while Naniwa reached RO4 twice, doesn't that mean anything to you?
This is Nani, not Jinro, no back to back Ro4 for him.
Saying that he is not the best forgeiner in the world because he only had to play one matchup is quite the statement. I remember when GSL Code S was 20 terrans and everything that mattered was which players XvT was the strongest. Naniwas run was great, that he took 2 games from Leenock proves his skill considering Leenock had studied all his matches vs TLO,SortOf and Jaedong. Maybe even YugiOh and Hyun, but maybe not those two since it was in the group stages
EPT
but for the crowd, its probably the best one to watch imho. coz nothing is more lame to watch, as 10-15min simcity passive play from both sides... specially toss camping behind gate/forge/pylon wall.
