On April 28 2013 18:39 Kaewins wrote: Of all the people that could have played the finals against Leenock, Naniwa was the worst and weakest choice. He cheesed his way to the finals and was the the least prepared and least capable player. I think he probably understands, that he should have lost to TLO/Jaedong, who are much better and more talented than him and could have beaten Leenock.
The result 3:2 sounds pretty impressive to someone who has not watched the finals, but in reality Naniwa didn't have a chance at any point. Yeah his all in play may work in best of 3, but it doesn't in best of 5. Jaedong would have crushed him in bo5. And Leenock crushed him in the finals, not because Zerg is OP, but because Naniwa basically plays 1 very all-in ish build and the only other thing he did was to cheese. He was outplayed by TLO and by Jaedong, and in every game against Leenock. That proxy gate in game 2 against Jaedong was the most pathetic thing I've seen in this entire tournament.
Agreed, 100% Except Naniwa does indeed seem to work hard, which makes his god awful gameplay althemore shameful. I think the fact that he was playing at home might explain the 'greatness' of his result.
Both these posts are plain old dumb . I'm not even remotely a Naniwa fan, but it's hard to read this with a straight face. Barring all fanboyism (and I have been a Jaedong fan forever, unlike most people who are all of a sudden big brood war fans), Jaedong in SC2 has been far removed from being some world beater that people are hyping him up to be. His ZvP particularly has always looked pretty shaky, which was again demonstrated in the Naniwa series. He won game 1 with a massive gamble which cost him in game 2, and lost game 3 in a similar way to his previous ZvP outings. In no way, shape or form did he outplay Naniwa in that series.
As for TLO, he won game 1 with a pretty silly "cheese", so calling that "outplayed" is a joke.
You gotta understand people being annoyed that Jaedong, an incredible top performer on the hardest game that's ever existed, lost to Naniwa, a below average War3 semi-progamer who transitionned into cheesing his way to upsets.
Lol in so many ways. First SC:BW wasn't "hardest game that's ever existed". That's so stupid that's actually entertaining to see.
Second NaNiwa is not a player that is cheesing his way to upsets.. He is legitimately good. For some reason starcraft community is the only one that thinks that quick win is bad way of winning. It's like saying that first round knockout in boxing is inferior way of winning because the boxer didn't try to survive contracted 12 rounds...
On April 28 2013 18:39 Kaewins wrote: Of all the people that could have played the finals against Leenock, Naniwa was the worst and weakest choice. He cheesed his way to the finals and was the the least prepared and least capable player. I think he probably understands, that he should have lost to TLO/Jaedong, who are much better and more talented than him and could have beaten Leenock.
The result 3:2 sounds pretty impressive to someone who has not watched the finals, but in reality Naniwa didn't have a chance at any point. Yeah his all in play may work in best of 3, but it doesn't in best of 5. Jaedong would have crushed him in bo5. And Leenock crushed him in the finals, not because Zerg is OP, but because Naniwa basically plays 1 very all-in ish build and the only other thing he did was to cheese. He was outplayed by TLO and by Jaedong, and in every game against Leenock. That proxy gate in game 2 against Jaedong was the most pathetic thing I've seen in this entire tournament.
Agreed, 100% Except Naniwa does indeed seem to work hard, which makes his god awful gameplay althemore shameful. I think the fact that he was playing at home might explain the 'greatness' of his result.
Both these posts are plain old dumb . I'm not even remotely a Naniwa fan, but it's hard to read this with a straight face. Barring all fanboyism (and I have been a Jaedong fan forever, unlike most people who are all of a sudden big brood war fans), Jaedong in SC2 has been far removed from being some world beater that people are hyping him up to be. His ZvP particularly has always looked pretty shaky, which was again demonstrated in the Naniwa series. He won game 1 with a massive gamble which cost him in game 2, and lost game 3 in a similar way to his previous ZvP outings. In no way, shape or form did he outplay Naniwa in that series.
As for TLO, he won game 1 with a pretty silly "cheese", so calling that "outplayed" is a joke.
You gotta understand people being annoyed that Jaedong, an incredible top performer on the hardest game that's ever existed, lost to Naniwa, a below average War3 semi-progamer who transitionned into cheesing his way to upsets.
Lol in so many ways. First SC:BW wasn't "hardest game that's ever existed". That's so stupid that's actually entertaining to see.
Second NaNiwa is not a player that is cheesing his way to upsets.. He is legitimately good. For some reason starcraft community is the only one that thinks that quick win is bad way of winning. It's like saying that first round knockout in boxing is inferior way of winning because the boxer didn't try to survive contracted 12 rounds...
He has Bieber in his name. His sole intention is to troll, and you guys keep taking the bait.
On April 28 2013 18:39 Kaewins wrote: Of all the people that could have played the finals against Leenock, Naniwa was the worst and weakest choice. He cheesed his way to the finals and was the the least prepared and least capable player. I think he probably understands, that he should have lost to TLO/Jaedong, who are much better and more talented than him and could have beaten Leenock.
The result 3:2 sounds pretty impressive to someone who has not watched the finals, but in reality Naniwa didn't have a chance at any point. Yeah his all in play may work in best of 3, but it doesn't in best of 5. Jaedong would have crushed him in bo5. And Leenock crushed him in the finals, not because Zerg is OP, but because Naniwa basically plays 1 very all-in ish build and the only other thing he did was to cheese. He was outplayed by TLO and by Jaedong, and in every game against Leenock. That proxy gate in game 2 against Jaedong was the most pathetic thing I've seen in this entire tournament.
Agreed, 100% Except Naniwa does indeed seem to work hard, which makes his god awful gameplay althemore shameful. I think the fact that he was playing at home might explain the 'greatness' of his result.
how are almost flawlessly executed and very well concepted timing attacks an example for god awful gameplay? please just dont post about stuff like this you clearly dont know anything about this game
On April 28 2013 18:39 Kaewins wrote: Of all the people that could have played the finals against Leenock, Naniwa was the worst and weakest choice. He cheesed his way to the finals and was the the least prepared and least capable player. I think he probably understands, that he should have lost to TLO/Jaedong, who are much better and more talented than him and could have beaten Leenock.
The result 3:2 sounds pretty impressive to someone who has not watched the finals, but in reality Naniwa didn't have a chance at any point. Yeah his all in play may work in best of 3, but it doesn't in best of 5. Jaedong would have crushed him in bo5. And Leenock crushed him in the finals, not because Zerg is OP, but because Naniwa basically plays 1 very all-in ish build and the only other thing he did was to cheese. He was outplayed by TLO and by Jaedong, and in every game against Leenock. That proxy gate in game 2 against Jaedong was the most pathetic thing I've seen in this entire tournament.
Agreed, 100% Except Naniwa does indeed seem to work hard, which makes his god awful gameplay althemore shameful. I think the fact that he was playing at home might explain the 'greatness' of his result.
Both these posts are plain old dumb . I'm not even remotely a Naniwa fan, but it's hard to read this with a straight face. Barring all fanboyism (and I have been a Jaedong fan forever, unlike most people who are all of a sudden big brood war fans), Jaedong in SC2 has been far removed from being some world beater that people are hyping him up to be. His ZvP particularly has always looked pretty shaky, which was again demonstrated in the Naniwa series. He won game 1 with a massive gamble which cost him in game 2, and lost game 3 in a similar way to his previous ZvP outings. In no way, shape or form did he outplay Naniwa in that series.
As for TLO, he won game 1 with a pretty silly "cheese", so calling that "outplayed" is a joke.
You gotta understand people being annoyed that Jaedong, an incredible top performer on the hardest game that's ever existed, lost to Naniwa, a below average War3 semi-progamer who transitionned into cheesing his way to upsets.
Lol in so many ways. First SC:BW wasn't "hardest game that's ever existed". That's so stupid that's actually entertaining to see.
Second NaNiwa is not a player that is cheesing his way to upsets.. He is legitimately good. For some reason starcraft community is the only one that thinks that quick win is bad way of winning. It's like saying that first round knockout in boxing is inferior way of winning because the boxer didn't try to survive contracted 12 rounds...
SC1:BW at competitive level is indeed the hardest, most demanding e-sport related game that's ever existed. Yet again you need to have played it to understand, SC2 newbies don't quite make the cut.
On April 28 2013 18:39 Kaewins wrote: Of all the people that could have played the finals against Leenock, Naniwa was the worst and weakest choice. He cheesed his way to the finals and was the the least prepared and least capable player. I think he probably understands, that he should have lost to TLO/Jaedong, who are much better and more talented than him and could have beaten Leenock.
The result 3:2 sounds pretty impressive to someone who has not watched the finals, but in reality Naniwa didn't have a chance at any point. Yeah his all in play may work in best of 3, but it doesn't in best of 5. Jaedong would have crushed him in bo5. And Leenock crushed him in the finals, not because Zerg is OP, but because Naniwa basically plays 1 very all-in ish build and the only other thing he did was to cheese. He was outplayed by TLO and by Jaedong, and in every game against Leenock. That proxy gate in game 2 against Jaedong was the most pathetic thing I've seen in this entire tournament.
Agreed, 100% Except Naniwa does indeed seem to work hard, which makes his god awful gameplay althemore shameful. I think the fact that he was playing at home might explain the 'greatness' of his result.
Both these posts are plain old dumb . I'm not even remotely a Naniwa fan, but it's hard to read this with a straight face. Barring all fanboyism (and I have been a Jaedong fan forever, unlike most people who are all of a sudden big brood war fans), Jaedong in SC2 has been far removed from being some world beater that people are hyping him up to be. His ZvP particularly has always looked pretty shaky, which was again demonstrated in the Naniwa series. He won game 1 with a massive gamble which cost him in game 2, and lost game 3 in a similar way to his previous ZvP outings. In no way, shape or form did he outplay Naniwa in that series.
As for TLO, he won game 1 with a pretty silly "cheese", so calling that "outplayed" is a joke.
You gotta understand people being annoyed that Jaedong, an incredible top performer on the hardest game that's ever existed, lost to Naniwa, a below average War3 semi-progamer who transitionned into cheesing his way to upsets.
Lol in so many ways. First SC:BW wasn't "hardest game that's ever existed". That's so stupid that's actually entertaining to see.
Second NaNiwa is not a player that is cheesing his way to upsets.. He is legitimately good. For some reason starcraft community is the only one that thinks that quick win is bad way of winning. It's like saying that first round knockout in boxing is inferior way of winning because the boxer didn't try to survive contracted 12 rounds...
SC1:BW at competitive level is indeed the hardest, most demanding e-sport related game that's ever existed. Yet again you need to have played it to understand, SC2 newbies don't quite make the cut.
You said "game", not "e-sport related game" previously. Like you were trying to say that SC:BW is harder than GO and Chess combined.
On April 28 2013 18:39 Kaewins wrote: Of all the people that could have played the finals against Leenock, Naniwa was the worst and weakest choice. He cheesed his way to the finals and was the the least prepared and least capable player. I think he probably understands, that he should have lost to TLO/Jaedong, who are much better and more talented than him and could have beaten Leenock.
The result 3:2 sounds pretty impressive to someone who has not watched the finals, but in reality Naniwa didn't have a chance at any point. Yeah his all in play may work in best of 3, but it doesn't in best of 5. Jaedong would have crushed him in bo5. And Leenock crushed him in the finals, not because Zerg is OP, but because Naniwa basically plays 1 very all-in ish build and the only other thing he did was to cheese. He was outplayed by TLO and by Jaedong, and in every game against Leenock. That proxy gate in game 2 against Jaedong was the most pathetic thing I've seen in this entire tournament.
Agreed, 100% Except Naniwa does indeed seem to work hard, which makes his god awful gameplay althemore shameful. I think the fact that he was playing at home might explain the 'greatness' of his result.
Both these posts are plain old dumb . I'm not even remotely a Naniwa fan, but it's hard to read this with a straight face. Barring all fanboyism (and I have been a Jaedong fan forever, unlike most people who are all of a sudden big brood war fans), Jaedong in SC2 has been far removed from being some world beater that people are hyping him up to be. His ZvP particularly has always looked pretty shaky, which was again demonstrated in the Naniwa series. He won game 1 with a massive gamble which cost him in game 2, and lost game 3 in a similar way to his previous ZvP outings. In no way, shape or form did he outplay Naniwa in that series.
As for TLO, he won game 1 with a pretty silly "cheese", so calling that "outplayed" is a joke.
You gotta understand people being annoyed that Jaedong, an incredible top performer on the hardest game that's ever existed, lost to Naniwa, a below average War3 semi-progamer who transitionned into cheesing his way to upsets.
Lol in so many ways. First SC:BW wasn't "hardest game that's ever existed". That's so stupid that's actually entertaining to see.
Second NaNiwa is not a player that is cheesing his way to upsets.. He is legitimately good. For some reason starcraft community is the only one that thinks that quick win is bad way of winning. It's like saying that first round knockout in boxing is inferior way of winning because the boxer didn't try to survive contracted 12 rounds...
SC1:BW at competitive level is indeed the hardest, most demanding e-sport related game that's ever existed. Yet again you need to have played it to understand, SC2 newbies don't quite make the cut.
You said "game", not "e-sport related game" previously. Like you were trying to say that SC:BW is harder than GO and Chess combined.
and how would u measure which one is harder exactly?
On April 30 2013 03:31 nimdil wrote: By effort required to master it.
hahahahaha so how much percent harder is SC:BW than SC2? How do you define "master", especially in a game agnostic sense? BTW Master's league doesn't mean you've mastered the game. How do you measure effort when it's applied in different ways for different games?
Not sure if this has been linked yet, but vods from the finals are up on SVT! Semifinals and several quarterfinals are there too, they can be found in the row of links just above the video box.
Point is I'm one of those people who die a little inside everytime a foreigner takes a game off a Korean, it's almost always evidence that the game is too versatile.
stepahano getting lucky dodging all korean until finally he cant dodge anymore and stumble upon coca in RO16 and get face crushed right after his 1st korean he encounter
while naniwa legitly slapping korean here and there to gain his second but i still hate them both
On April 30 2013 15:48 DustbinBieber wrote: Point is I'm one of those people who die a little inside everytime a foreigner takes a game off a Korean, it's almost always evidence that the game is too versatile.
I like to think that it means the korean player either hadnt prepared enough or simply wasnt good enough.
On April 30 2013 15:48 DustbinBieber wrote: Point is I'm one of those people who die a little inside everytime a foreigner takes a game off a Korean, it's almost always evidence that the game is too versatile.
On April 28 2013 18:39 Kaewins wrote: Of all the people that could have played the finals against Leenock, Naniwa was the worst and weakest choice. He cheesed his way to the finals and was the the least prepared and least capable player. I think he probably understands, that he should have lost to TLO/Jaedong, who are much better and more talented than him and could have beaten Leenock.
The result 3:2 sounds pretty impressive to someone who has not watched the finals, but in reality Naniwa didn't have a chance at any point. Yeah his all in play may work in best of 3, but it doesn't in best of 5. Jaedong would have crushed him in bo5. And Leenock crushed him in the finals, not because Zerg is OP, but because Naniwa basically plays 1 very all-in ish build and the only other thing he did was to cheese. He was outplayed by TLO and by Jaedong, and in every game against Leenock. That proxy gate in game 2 against Jaedong was the most pathetic thing I've seen in this entire tournament.
Agreed, 100% Except Naniwa does indeed seem to work hard, which makes his god awful gameplay althemore shameful. I think the fact that he was playing at home might explain the 'greatness' of his result.
Both these posts are plain old dumb . I'm not even remotely a Naniwa fan, but it's hard to read this with a straight face. Barring all fanboyism (and I have been a Jaedong fan forever, unlike most people who are all of a sudden big brood war fans), Jaedong in SC2 has been far removed from being some world beater that people are hyping him up to be. His ZvP particularly has always looked pretty shaky, which was again demonstrated in the Naniwa series. He won game 1 with a massive gamble which cost him in game 2, and lost game 3 in a similar way to his previous ZvP outings. In no way, shape or form did he outplay Naniwa in that series.
As for TLO, he won game 1 with a pretty silly "cheese", so calling that "outplayed" is a joke.
You gotta understand people being annoyed that Jaedong, an incredible top performer on the hardest game that's ever existed, lost to Naniwa, a below average War3 semi-progamer who transitionned into cheesing his way to upsets.
Lol in so many ways. First SC:BW wasn't "hardest game that's ever existed". That's so stupid that's actually entertaining to see.
Second NaNiwa is not a player that is cheesing his way to upsets.. He is legitimately good. For some reason starcraft community is the only one that thinks that quick win is bad way of winning. It's like saying that first round knockout in boxing is inferior way of winning because the boxer didn't try to survive contracted 12 rounds...
I am not saying that a quick win is bad, just that JD did give that quick win, by going 2 hatcheries before pool against opponent that he was mostly winning against in practice and that was playing very aggressive two base all-in in the same tournament If I were to compare it to the boxing, then one boxer just turned his back to his opponent in the first round and got knocked out in first round, if something like that happened in real boxing, I bet there would be an investigation
On April 30 2013 15:48 DustbinBieber wrote: Point is I'm one of those people who die a little inside everytime a foreigner takes a game off a Korean, it's almost always evidence that the game is too versatile.
I like to think that it means the korean player either hadnt prepared enough or simply wasnt good enough.
Or that there was something else that had nothing to do with starcraft directly?
After re-watching the VODs at the start of the first set of nani vs JD, Artosis said, leave it to me, and the a few seconds later he called Naniwa will win this, now it felt as if he was checking the schedule twich dreamhacktv/b/396294648?t=10h15m37s
15 Hatchery 18 Hatchery 18 Gas 18 Pool next game 16 Hatchery 17 Pool so unreal
On April 30 2013 03:31 nimdil wrote: By effort required to master it.
hahahahaha so how much percent harder is SC:BW than SC2? How do you define "master", especially in a game agnostic sense? BTW Master's league doesn't mean you've mastered the game. How do you measure effort when it's applied in different ways for different games?
Bw competition had enough B-teamers and practice partners to dominate whole SC2 world for 2 years. And those were people from the shadows of televised BW.
We are not talking about game difficulty itself but competition difficulty. You can read on SC2 champions how they struggled.
You can imagine/dream about becoming SC2 proplayer nowadays, but it was foolishness in BW competition. It was concetraded, hard and unforgiving environment. You would need to spend 1-2 years as a rookie on average before your first televised game, and if you were a genius you could win some games.
Even the biggest stars of late BW needed years to get into competition(that includes Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Stork). And they all were accustomed to the game since elementary school as everyone in Korea.
EPT
. I'm not even remotely a Naniwa fan, but it's hard to read this with a straight face. Barring all fanboyism (and I have been a Jaedong fan forever, unlike most people who are all of a sudden big brood war fans), Jaedong in SC2 has been far removed from being some world beater that people are hyping him up to be. His ZvP particularly has always looked pretty shaky, which was again demonstrated in the Naniwa series. He won game 1 with a massive gamble which cost him in game 2, and lost game 3 in a similar way to his previous ZvP outings. In no way, shape or form did he outplay Naniwa in that series.
