EPT[DreamHack] Stockholm D2 2013 - Page 553
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insitelol
845 Posts
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netherDrake
Singapore1831 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
[SPL] CJ Entus vs. SK Telecom T1 R4 - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18392606 [WCS AM] RO32 Group F - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18402829 come on guys, less arguing and more LR threads haha | ||
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XupinatoR
Spain125 Posts
On April 28 2013 20:36 Zeon0 wrote: if Leenock is that good and Naniwa that bad, why could Nani take two games? Because some people just hate him and they act like starcraft was only meant to exist for long macro repetitive games. He came to this event with his own innovative builds, he showed awesome micro and he almost always knew what to do. I mean, if you are playing in a tournament against someone that will destoy you in a long game, WHY would you go for a macro game? It's a tournament, you are not practissing, you are ploaying to win no matter what. Naniwa knows his strenght and his weaknesses, he also knew leenock's ones and took advantadge of it. Haters are just very retarded, and you can see that when they flamed naniwa for his 2gate against JD, saying that he doesn't know how to play SC2 and stuff. Yet, like i said before, nobody flames Jaedong for going TWO TIMES 4 POOL in a single final against Flash, or boxer for winning a final against Yellow with only bunker rushses... | ||
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AlternativeEgo
Sweden17309 Posts
On April 28 2013 21:12 jeri wrote: cheesy/aggresive playstyle like naniwas get always all the hate  but for the crowd, its probably the best one to watch imho. coz nothing is more lame to watch, as 10-15min simcity passive play from both sides... specially toss camping behind gate/forge/pylon wall.I don't think it's the playstyle that you mentioned that has made him a target for some here. I mean the other guy is the stone cold aggressor Leenock himself, after all. | ||
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Prugelhugel
Austria637 Posts
Leenock showed some very good games. His mass ling style into fast ultras vs P. This crazy zergling aggression, e.g. vs Grubby. He really showed off that he knows how to punish trivial flaws. Naniwa on the other hand had this one, crazy build. Those 4 gates into stargate, which he always adjusted by a little bit. Sometimes with a forge, less aggression or oracles. This build was so well refined, it made the zergs reaaally uncomfortable. Now to Jaedong vs Naniwa. In the first game, Jaedong blindcountered a build, Naniwa (almost) never used in this tournament. Maybe Jaedong was mindgaming like a madman, has not watched any of Naniwas games, or just didn't care. But after that, Naniwa was behind, afraid and tilted - but the 2gate punished Jaedong for doing this opener twice in a row. If you ask me, this win was more than well deserved. But in the finals - Leenock KNEW about Naniwas build. He just figured it out and Naniwas strongest only upper card was gone. What would you do in that position? Trying to repeatedly allin him was clearly the right decision. It was close and it was well deserved for Leenock, since he was the best player in this tourney. But still, Naniwa, as much as I don't like him, he really deserved that second place. | ||
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Aeroplaneoverthesea
United Kingdom1977 Posts
Leenock was phenomenal this tournament and cemented his place as the greatest weekend LAN player in Sc2 history. | ||
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2BearqLoza
134 Posts
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Sonic Death Monkey
Sweden991 Posts
On April 28 2013 21:42 Prugelhugel wrote: People here are going crazy.... If you ask me, both Naniwa and Leenock were the two outstanding players of this tournament. Reasons: Leenock showed some very good games. His mass ling style into fast ultras vs P. This crazy zergling aggression, e.g. vs Grubby. He really showed off that he knows how to punish trivial flaws. Naniwa on the other hand had this one, crazy build. Those 4 gates into stargate, which he always adjusted by a little bit. Sometimes with a forge, less aggression or oracles. This build was so well refined, it made the zergs reaaally uncomfortable. Now to Jaedong vs Naniwa. In the first game, Jaedong blindcountered a build, Naniwa (almost) never used in this tournament. Maybe Jaedong was mindgaming like a madman, has not watched any of Naniwas games, or just didn't care. But after that, Naniwa was behind, afraid and tilted - but the 2gate punished Jaedong for doing this opener twice in a row. If you ask me, this win was more than well deserved. But in the finals - Leenock KNEW about Naniwas build. He just figured it out and Naniwas strongest only upper card was gone. What would you do in that position? Trying to repeatedly allin him was clearly the right decision. It was close and it was well deserved for Leenock, since he was the best player in this tourney. But still, Naniwa, as much as I don't like him, he really deserved that second place. I'm not disagreeing with your overall point, but wouldn't JD's 3 base before pool build counter any variation Nani had shown of his 1 gate expand? | ||
Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On April 28 2013 21:50 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: Naniwa is clearly the best foreigner right now as he's literally the only foreigner to achieve anything at all in HOTS. Leenock was phenomenal this tournament and cemented his place as the greatest weekend LAN player in Sc2 history. MC and Life are both on that level, in my opinion | ||
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AlternativeEgo
Sweden17309 Posts
On April 28 2013 21:52 2BearqLoza wrote: Any VODs yet? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_DreamHack_Open/Stockholm#Streams_.26_VODs Only sc2links and sc2ratings have sorted ones, as far as I know. | ||
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On April 28 2013 21:59 Zealously wrote: MC and Life are both on that level, in my opinion life's 2 MLGs and one ISQ (not reaallyyy a weekend tourney anyway) are not close to Leenock's achievements on weekend tournaments. MC's only gotten one IEM and one HSC as well (and a non-premier redbull as well i guess) | ||
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2BearqLoza
134 Posts
On April 28 2013 22:00 AlternativeEgo wrote: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_DreamHack_Open/Stockholm#Streams_.26_VODs Only sc2links and sc2ratings have sorted ones, as far as I know. Thank you!!! | ||
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Aeroplaneoverthesea
United Kingdom1977 Posts
On April 28 2013 21:59 Zealously wrote: MC and Life are both on that level, in my opinion Life's not been a top player for long enough yet to rack up enough wins but I wouldn't be surprised if he overtook Leenock eventually. MC's actually never won a weekend LAN with an absolute top tier lineup stacked with the elite of Code S, something Leenock's done 3 times (MLG x2, IPL x2). MC's a bit overrated in this regard and like Stephano his winnings/success is in large part to them both attending basically every tournament going. No doubt they're both great players but they've won a lot of money from second tier LAN events without ever taking down an MLG or an IPL once they started bringing all of Code S over. Leenock, Life and DRG's win record at foreign tournaments when they actually attend are insanely good. | ||
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SayTT
Sweden2158 Posts
On April 28 2013 20:28 Kaewins wrote: Yeah, because god forbid someone didn't like Naniwa's cheese/all in play to the finals. Not everyone is from Sweden or a fan. Suddenly we're all haters. If Naniwa had outplayed his opponents, there wouldn't be any place for critics. He didn't. And it's stupid, that a player who abuses 1 build gets to the finals, while more entertaining players lose to that same stupid build. If this is the best foreigner I fear for the foreign scene. Hi, you need to cry one more time to win the magical unicorn. That unicorn will fly you away to the land where there is no Naniwa in top 2 of dreamhack stockholm open 2013. | ||
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hastur420
Belize178 Posts
On April 28 2013 21:40 XupinatoR wrote: Haters are just very retarded, and you can see that when they flamed naniwa for his 2gate against JD, saying that he doesn't know how to play SC2 and stuff. Yet, like i said before, nobody flames Jaedong for going TWO TIMES 4 POOL in a single final against Flash, or boxer for winning a final against Yellow with only bunker rushses... well to be honest, Boxer got a sizeable amount of hate when he 12/14raxed idra in mlg "fucking cheeser" and the sort;) | ||
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Aeroplaneoverthesea
United Kingdom1977 Posts
There was way too many games on day 1 making it impossible to see the overwhelming majority of them. The first group stage could have been ditched entirely, made best of 1 or played online to allow us to see more from group stage 2 & 3. I'm not hugely fond of Best of 3 in Semi/Quarter finals either and players should never be playing pointless games in group stages, their win rate in these games must be close to 0%. Overall though this was a brilliant event I just had a few issues with the format even though overall groups into single elimination is the best format. | ||
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Moxi
708 Posts
On April 28 2013 22:29 SayTT wrote: Hi, you need to cry one more time to win the magical unicorn. That unicorn will fly you away to the land where there is no Naniwa in top 2 of dreamhack stockholm open 2013. I think he will succeed. | ||
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kubiks
France1328 Posts
On April 28 2013 22:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: If I had one complaint about this event it's that day 2 was way, way better than day 1 as a spectacle. There was way too many games on day 1 making it impossible to see the overwhelming majority of them. The first group stage could have been ditched entirely, made best of 1 or played offline to allow us to see more from group stage 2 & 3. I'm not hugely fond of Best of 3 in Semi/Quarter finals either and players should never be playing pointless games in group stages, their win rate in these games must be close to 0%. Overall though this was a brilliant event I just had a few issues with the format even though overall groups into single elimination is the best format. I have to agree that semis in Bo3 isn't really good. A little tilt and it's over. You shouldn't get out of the final part of a tournament with a single Bo3 (it's not the case in GSL, niether in MLG), because that's really disappointing. The Bo5 final is ok, even if I prefer a bit more room for the mindgames. As far as Nani/JD/Leenock goes, I think leenock was just way better than JD in this matchup. JD try to do his 3 hatch before pool way too often (he lost with that in the PL too). It's ok to throw a really greedy build from time to time, but you shouldn't be so predictable. I think JD is not confident enough in his ZvP to make safe opening, wheras leenock did safe openings during the whole tournament and didn't suffer too much of that (his 3 loss are a failed all-in and 2 attempts to do/switch to mutas). | ||
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Aeroplaneoverthesea
United Kingdom1977 Posts
On April 28 2013 22:45 kubiks wrote: I have to agree that semis in Bo3 isn't really good. A little tilt and it's over. You shouldn't get out of the final part of a tournament with a single Bo3 (it's not the case in GSL, niether in MLG), because that's really disappointing. The Bo5 final is ok, even if I prefer a bit more room for the mindgames. As far as Nani/JD/Leenock goes, I think leenock was just way better than JD in this matchup. JD try to do his 3 hatch before pool way too often (he lost with that in the PL too). It's ok to throw a really greedy build from time to time, but you shouldn't be so predictable. I think JD is not confident enough in his ZvP to make safe opening, wheras leenock did safe openings during the whole tournament and didn't suffer too much of that (his 3 loss are a failed all-in and 2 attempts to do/switch to mutas). That's the problem with Best of 3. In the Jaedong/Naniwa series Jaedong won the mind games in game 1, Naniwa in game 2 and game 3 was an extremely close game. They looked evenly matched to me, obviously Naniwa deserved to go through because he won the series but he didn't really demonstrate that he's a better ZvP player in those games because the only game that wasn't pure mind games was Game 3, which was a really close game. Best of five much better allows for the better player to advance and show why they deserve to advance. IMO you shouldn't be playing best of 3's so late in the tournament it has to be best of five semis at least and preferably best of five quarters too. | ||
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