At this moment I think it is easy to call Naniwa the best foreigner since noone else is really shining. I have known that he has been this good since about 4-5 months when he was streaming and he took down top EU guys like I never saw before. Much harder to rank the best Korean. I would give top 5 at this moment to:
Life Innovation Rain Leenock Yoda
There are 4-5 more who could be in that group including Flash. Ask 10 poeple and you will get 10 similar but different lists. I think many people would not put Rain or Yoda up there.
What some people have missed duiring the last 50 posts are:
Jeadong and Naniwa practised each other the last couple of weeks and both knew how each other played. Therefor that series is different than the others.
Leenock could study all the zerg games Naniwa did during all the waiting time and could be more prepared than others. I think he is a little better than Naniwa anyways.
On April 28 2013 21:42 Prugelhugel wrote: People here are going crazy.... If you ask me, both Naniwa and Leenock were the two outstanding players of this tournament. Reasons: Leenock showed some very good games. His mass ling style into fast ultras vs P. This crazy zergling aggression, e.g. vs Grubby. He really showed off that he knows how to punish trivial flaws. Naniwa on the other hand had this one, crazy build. Those 4 gates into stargate, which he always adjusted by a little bit. Sometimes with a forge, less aggression or oracles. This build was so well refined, it made the zergs reaaally uncomfortable. Now to Jaedong vs Naniwa. In the first game, Jaedong blindcountered a build, Naniwa (almost) never used in this tournament. Maybe Jaedong was mindgaming like a madman, has not watched any of Naniwas games, or just didn't care. But after that, Naniwa was behind, afraid and tilted - but the 2gate punished Jaedong for doing this opener twice in a row. If you ask me, this win was more than well deserved. But in the finals - Leenock KNEW about Naniwas build. He just figured it out and Naniwas strongest only upper card was gone. What would you do in that position? Trying to repeatedly allin him was clearly the right decision. It was close and it was well deserved for Leenock, since he was the best player in this tourney. But still, Naniwa, as much as I don't like him, he really deserved that second place.
I'm not disagreeing with your overall point, but wouldn't JD's 3 base before pool build counter any variation Nani had shown of his 1 gate expand?
I don't think so. I have to admit, I don't have the whole game and bo's in mind, but if you ask me, a 4 gate pressure of this kind would hit way faster than any zergling speed could. Even with roach tech, it'd be pretty harsh to hold.
On April 28 2013 21:50 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: Leenock was phenomenal this tournament and cemented his place as the greatest weekend LAN player in Sc2 history.
Which events do you count as Weekend LANs? Dreamhack, MLG, IEM, HomeStory.. which others? For just the events mentioned...
By win percentage (with at least 50 wins to remove people who got lucky once or twice):
#1: MC 260-149 (63%) -- would be #13 on the win percentage list #2: HuK 225-151 (59%) -- would be #19 on the win percentage list #3: Socke 201-183 (52%) #4: NaNiwa 196-135 (59%) -- would be #20 on the win percentage list #5: Ret 187-177 (51%)
Obviously the foreigners are in the games won list because they are AT those events much more often than any Korean except for MC. These are still really respectable numbers for the people on that list, but clearly Leenock has made the most of his opportunities in the weekend LAN setting.
On April 29 2013 01:01 shid0x wrote: Just got back from vacation and watches vods... Naniwa may not be a king...He is an emperor !
Really impressed by his mircro and playstyle throughout the entire tournament, without any doubts the ''true'' winner of this DH.
lol@vortix who was flaming nani recently about his results,where are you now vortix,where ?
So the guy who actually won and dropped only 3 maps the entire tournament is not the "true" winner, the runner-up is. Got it... That makes perfect sense.
On April 29 2013 01:01 shid0x wrote: Just got back from vacation and watches vods... Naniwa may not be a king...He is an emperor !
Really impressed by his mircro and playstyle throughout the entire tournament, without any doubts the ''true'' winner of this DH.
lol@vortix who was flaming nani recently about his results,where are you now vortix,where ?
So the guy who actually won and dropped only 3 maps the entire tournament is not the "true" winner, the runner-up is. Got it... That makes perfect sense.
On April 28 2013 15:09 GolemMadness wrote: Didn't get a chance to see any of the games, but pretty impressive results from Naniwa.
Boy, you missed a great tournament (with the exception of the terrible, terrible Twitch lag). Leenock managed to make Zerg look outright OP... his macro was getting dangerously close to hacking-level perfect. In addition, this was probably the deepest HoTS tourney yet- I was surprised by the Muta to Swarmhost transitions, and the heavy and effective use of Ultras. It actually made me somewhat sad for Toss, as P played almost identical to WoL with the exception of MsC. Oracles most definitely need a buff- with spore crawlers requiring no tech, Oracles are too easily shut down.
You should definitely watch vods, Leenock didn't drop a map until the Ro4, it was insane. Xlord, SaSe, NaNiwa, and more (check out Happy and Kas) played great for the foreigner legion, while Gumiho and Leenock proved to be absolutely head and shoulders better than the other Koreans. I mean, dude, just check out Whitera vs Mc... great tourney.
That is just how things go when you work 13-15 hour days... :-/
On April 28 2013 21:50 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: Leenock was phenomenal this tournament and cemented his place as the greatest weekend LAN player in Sc2 history.
Which events do you count as Weekend LANs? Dreamhack, MLG, IEM, HomeStory.. which others? For just the events mentioned...
By win percentage (with at least 50 wins to remove people who got lucky once or twice):
#1: MC 260-149 (63%) -- would be #13 on the win percentage list #2: HuK 225-151 (59%) -- would be #19 on the win percentage list #3: Socke 201-183 (52%) #4: NaNiwa 196-135 (59%) -- would be #20 on the win percentage list #5: Ret 187-177 (51%)
Obviously the foreigners are in the games won list because they are AT those events much more often than any Korean except for MC. These are still really respectable numbers for the people on that list, but clearly Leenock has made the most of his opportunities in the weekend LAN setting.
(Aligulac is awesome. Thanks for the data!)
Weekend LAN's are MLG, IPL, Dreamhack, IEM, NASL (the offline part), last years WCS (except the Korean qualifier), WCG, Assembly and maybe some others but those are the main ones. Obviously some events are much more valuable than others depending on player pool.
It's interesting that Leenock has the highest win percentage as well but personally he's number one for me on the basis of three wins in absolute best of the best level player pools (plus a 2nd place too just to round it out). To my knowledge only Life and MKP have won two of these calibre of events and no one else has won more than one.
On April 29 2013 01:01 shid0x wrote: Just got back from vacation and watches vods... Naniwa may not be a king...He is an emperor !
Really impressed by his mircro and playstyle throughout the entire tournament, without any doubts the ''true'' winner of this DH.
lol@vortix who was flaming nani recently about his results,where are you now vortix,where ?
So the guy who actually won and dropped only 3 maps the entire tournament is not the "true" winner, the runner-up is. Got it... That makes perfect sense.
That's obviously not what he's saying.
If the runner up is the true winner, that implies the winner is not the true winner. So what exactly is he saying?
On April 29 2013 01:51 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: Weekend LAN's are MLG, IPL, Dreamhack, IEM, NASL (the offline part), last years WCS (except the Korean qualifier), WCG, Assembly and maybe some others but those are the main ones. Obviously some events are much more valuable than others depending on player pool.
#1: MC 253-157 (61%) (#17 in percent) #2: HuK 248-179 (58%) (#24 in percent) #3: PuMa 239-127 (65%) (#6 in percent) #4: HerO 235-123 (65%) (#7 in percent) #5: Stephano 217-123 (63%) (#13 in percent)
On April 28 2013 21:50 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: Leenock was phenomenal this tournament and cemented his place as the greatest weekend LAN player in Sc2 history.
Which events do you count as Weekend LANs? Dreamhack, MLG, IEM, HomeStory.. which others? For just the events mentioned...
By win percentage (with at least 50 wins to remove people who got lucky once or twice):
#1: MC 260-149 (63%) -- would be #13 on the win percentage list #2: HuK 225-151 (59%) -- would be #19 on the win percentage list #3: Socke 201-183 (52%) #4: NaNiwa 196-135 (59%) -- would be #20 on the win percentage list #5: Ret 187-177 (51%)
Obviously the foreigners are in the games won list because they are AT those events much more often than any Korean except for MC. These are still really respectable numbers for the people on that list, but clearly Leenock has made the most of his opportunities in the weekend LAN setting.
(Aligulac is awesome. Thanks for the data!)
Lol, useless. Wait for an accurate WCS rank, it was done for that.
On April 28 2013 18:39 Kaewins wrote: Of all the people that could have played the finals against Leenock, Naniwa was the worst and weakest choice. He cheesed his way to the finals and was the the least prepared and least capable player. I think he probably understands, that he should have lost to TLO/Jaedong, who are much better and more talented than him and could have beaten Leenock......... .
even if this would be true, (cheesed his way to the finals): this is a sport, and a job. the order is to win the game, no matter how. its a strategy, and a risk and it can fail.
On April 29 2013 01:01 shid0x wrote: Just got back from vacation and watches vods... Naniwa may not be a king...He is an emperor !
Really impressed by his mircro and playstyle throughout the entire tournament, without any doubts the ''true'' winner of this DH.
lol@vortix who was flaming nani recently about his results,where are you now vortix,where ?
So the guy who actually won and dropped only 3 maps the entire tournament is not the "true" winner, the runner-up is. Got it... That makes perfect sense.
That's obviously not what he's saying.
But how can we have stupid internet arguments if we're not allowed to take everything literally?
On April 29 2013 01:01 shid0x wrote: Just got back from vacation and watches vods... Naniwa may not be a king...He is an emperor !
Really impressed by his mircro and playstyle throughout the entire tournament, without any doubts the ''true'' winner of this DH.
lol@vortix who was flaming nani recently about his results,where are you now vortix,where ?
So the guy who actually won and dropped only 3 maps the entire tournament is not the "true" winner, the runner-up is. Got it... That makes perfect sense.
That's obviously not what he's saying.
If the runner up is the true winner, that implies the winner is not the true winner. So what exactly is he saying?
Yeah I am kinda getting over this communities chirpiness, I knew it would take literally two posts for some guy to go "Leenock "truly" won how dare you" part of this are everyone here seems to be a non-native English speaker and so many insulted posts are based off not understanding subtlety in language.
In English things in "quotes" are not usually serious. Like saying I have a "two-ton" amount of coca cola in my cup.
A moron would actually believe Naniwa won for real man c'mon. What he meant was more "meta-winning" or winning in a subjective sense. Like when it started we had huge doubts about Naniwa's skill and everyone hated him for his attitude.
Naniwa won big this weekend, not only did he break through and prove himself to be around Code-S level, he showed a kind and humble side to himself few had rarely ever seen and won a LOT of new fans and got the unofficial title "King of the North" so in that way he won Dreamhack.
That is "winning" Dreamhack if you know what I mean.
EPT
