• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:06
CEST 02:06
KST 09:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists22
Community News
Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event11Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results12026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced9
StarCraft 2
General
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) 2026 GSL Season 2 Qualifiers $1,400 SEL Season 3 Ladder Invitational
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Do we have a pimpest plays list? AI Question ASL21 General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 4 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 3 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV OutLive 25 (RTS Game) Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Movie Stars In Video Games: …
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1779 users

[DreamHack] Stockholm D2 2013 - Page 474

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 472 473 474 475 476 558 Next
JayJay_90
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany1632 Posts
April 27 2013 22:19 GMT
#9461
I haven't seen that much HOTS before this DH, but I've heard a lot of Zergs complain about skytoss being unbeatable. I can't think of a game where I have seen anything like that though. What is this infamous skytoss?
Snoodles
Profile Joined March 2012
401 Posts
April 27 2013 22:19 GMT
#9462
On April 28 2013 07:17 rift wrote:
    (1862) Leenock  2-1  NaNiwa (1476)     
-------------------------------------------
66.29% 3-1
22.35% 3-2 2-3 11.36%
-------------------------------------------
88.64% 11.36%

Median outcome: Leenock 3-1 NaNiwa
Estimated by Aligulac. Modify.


I believe!
Mouzone
Profile Joined April 2011
3937 Posts
April 27 2013 22:19 GMT
#9463
On April 28 2013 07:18 Cereb wrote:
It's impossible to measure how many more times ZvP is better in HotS than WoL! Loving this!


Can't even remember the last time I saw a BL - infestor composition.
Wintex
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Norway16838 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-27 22:19:58
April 27 2013 22:19 GMT
#9464
On April 28 2013 07:17 sitromit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2013 07:16 MuseMike wrote:
On April 28 2013 07:15 sitromit wrote:
On April 28 2013 07:13 Relaaja wrote:
On April 28 2013 07:12 Bagi wrote:
What was Naniwas major mistake in this game? Did he need to do more econ damage by harass?

Not balance whining, just trying to understand how this style of PvZ works.


Zero mistakes. Protoss just have to play so much better to win zerg.

Yeah, because Naniwa is anywhere near Leenock's skill level.

I'd say they are pretty close. Nani has faced Leenock in the MLG finals been to ro8 GSL twice won the Blizzard tournament.

I would say you're delusional if you think their skill is remotely close.

They are both extremely skilled. Leenock is a stronger player atm I would say. Leenock is in a better practice environment. Life takes em both down.
The Bomber boy
arkedos
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany1426 Posts
April 27 2013 22:19 GMT
#9465
well I think after this series its safe to say that naniwa is absoluteley on a korean level of play. Well Leenock still is one level above him, but Naniwa is the only foreigner that seemingly have the dedication that is required.
love esports - hate homophobia
mec
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden192 Posts
April 27 2013 22:19 GMT
#9466
On April 28 2013 07:17 Die4Ever wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2013 07:15 shabby wrote:
On April 28 2013 07:13 Relaaja wrote:
On April 28 2013 07:12 Bagi wrote:
What was Naniwas major mistake in this game? Did he need to do more econ damage by harass?

Not balance whining, just trying to understand how this style of PvZ works.


Zero mistakes. Protoss just have to play so much better to win zerg.


Wouldn't say zero mistakes. Its a bit like that old "what do you do against 20 carriers". His mistake was letting Leenock take like 7 bases. It is too late at that point.

Naniwa lost like 5 phoenixes for no reason in the early game lol


I would say this is the reason he lost. This was why leenock made mutas in the first place and forced naniwa to remake those phoenixes again
AstroPegnuin
Profile Joined November 2012
293 Posts
April 27 2013 22:19 GMT
#9467
Protoss player here, Naniwa made a mistake in losing the phoenix and did the best he could to recover, however both these players calibers doesn't allow for such mistakes to be made without going punished which is exactly what happened allowing Leenok to even it up and eventually make better decisions to get ahead, deal with it
purakushi
Profile Joined August 2012
United States3301 Posts
April 27 2013 22:19 GMT
#9468
Shut him down, Leenock~
3-1 gogo
T P Z sagi
Lunareste
Profile Joined July 2011
United States3596 Posts
April 27 2013 22:19 GMT
#9469
On April 28 2013 07:16 Wintex wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2013 07:14 Sabu113 wrote:
On April 28 2013 07:12 Wintex wrote:
On April 28 2013 07:11 Sabu113 wrote:
On April 28 2013 07:09 AlternativeEgo wrote:
Must be damn hard to get a good storm on mutas :/


It's always been hard. that's why fungal is so much better.

You must have a phoenix ball v mutas.

we need corsairs honestly.

COrsairs are so cool in comparison.


I just like how corsairs put a soft cap on just building one super mobile unit and running around with it.

I mean this game leenock was just way ahead in eco and could throw money at him but it's kinda dumb that you can get a bunch of mutas and kinda amove a highly mobile army around. Not to say 8 range phoenix is a fantastic solution to dealin with moderate sized muta packs.

I like valks and corsairs way more than vikings and phoenixes. Those hard counters help the overall game.


I fucking love Corsairs<3

favorite starcraft unit
KT FlaSh FOREVER
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
April 27 2013 22:19 GMT
#9470
On April 28 2013 07:17 Die4Ever wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2013 07:15 shabby wrote:
On April 28 2013 07:13 Relaaja wrote:
On April 28 2013 07:12 Bagi wrote:
What was Naniwas major mistake in this game? Did he need to do more econ damage by harass?

Not balance whining, just trying to understand how this style of PvZ works.


Zero mistakes. Protoss just have to play so much better to win zerg.


Wouldn't say zero mistakes. Its a bit like that old "what do you do against 20 carriers". His mistake was letting Leenock take like 7 bases. It is too late at that point.

Naniwa lost like 5 phoenixes for no reason in the early game lol


He said no mistakes man, why you gotta re-write history to be accurate?
Moderator
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
April 27 2013 22:19 GMT
#9471
On April 28 2013 07:16 freetgy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2013 07:14 veKtory wrote:
On April 28 2013 07:12 freetgy wrote:
this is an unwinnable situation right there, despite Naniwa beeing so much ahead and having both Storm and Archons...

Hope balance team was watching.


Yea they should really put a cap on the number of bases a Zerg can take. Make them so they can't take more than 3 bases.


nope it showed that even with Phoenix Range, PHoenix suck vs. mass Mutas

No, they don't, you just can't make 10 Phoenixes and expect to win vs. 40 Mutas. Mutas didn't win for Leenock, superior economy did, he could've constantly keep remaxing on Ultras/Infestors/Vipers and Hydras and still win. He had 7 bases, Naniwa had like 3-4, if he had more bases, just 10 Phoenixes mixed in with a lot of Archons, and those Mutas wouldn't be able to engage those units.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
Tao367
Profile Joined June 2012
United Kingdom324 Posts
April 27 2013 22:19 GMT
#9472
I really think the tech switching is the problem here, not the mutalisks itself.
DigitalisDestructi
Profile Joined November 2010
United States488 Posts
April 27 2013 22:19 GMT
#9473
On April 28 2013 07:13 Relaaja wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2013 07:12 Bagi wrote:
What was Naniwas major mistake in this game? Did he need to do more econ damage by harass?

Not balance whining, just trying to understand how this style of PvZ works.


Zero mistakes. Protoss just have to play so much better to win zerg.

Losing 4 (5?) phoenixes for free doesn't count as a mistake, I guess.
Deus Ex is awesome -- soundcloud.com/user9260191 -- soundclick.com/ekarinsm -- purevolume.com/ekarinsm
Loxley
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Netherlands2480 Posts
April 27 2013 22:19 GMT
#9474
On April 28 2013 07:19 JayJay_90 wrote:
I haven't seen that much HOTS before this DH, but I've heard a lot of Zergs complain about skytoss being unbeatable. I can't think of a game where I have seen anything like that though. What is this infamous skytoss?


PHoenix, voidrays, tempest and potentially carriers. But the first 3 will do just fine.
월요 날 재미있
ProbeEtPylon
Profile Joined October 2010
168 Posts
April 27 2013 22:19 GMT
#9475
On April 28 2013 07:13 FrogOfWar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2013 07:11 FrogOfWar wrote:
gg

User was warned for this post


???


#
beer
SibChil
Profile Joined August 2012
Sweden502 Posts
April 27 2013 22:20 GMT
#9476
On April 28 2013 07:18 Azurues wrote:
this early hive - get ultra + zerglings to push protoss is it gonna be the meta of ZvP?

i am loving these builts.

and yes HoTs so much better than WoL already


Definately gonna try to copy that on the ladder from now on
Favourite players: Jaedong, DRG, Coca, Snute, Grubby, Keen, Baby | GoGo [A]lliance
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
April 27 2013 22:20 GMT
#9477
On April 28 2013 07:19 opterown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2013 07:18 MuseMike wrote:
On April 28 2013 07:17 sitromit wrote:
On April 28 2013 07:16 MuseMike wrote:
On April 28 2013 07:15 sitromit wrote:
On April 28 2013 07:13 Relaaja wrote:
On April 28 2013 07:12 Bagi wrote:
What was Naniwas major mistake in this game? Did he need to do more econ damage by harass?

Not balance whining, just trying to understand how this style of PvZ works.


Zero mistakes. Protoss just have to play so much better to win zerg.

Yeah, because Naniwa is anywhere near Leenock's skill level.

I'd say they are pretty close. Nani has faced Leenock in the MLG finals been to ro8 GSL twice won the Blizzard tournament.

I would say you're delusional if you think their skill is remotely close.

I'd say you were pretty dumb if you think they arent considering they have met in finals of large tournaments before, been to similar results in GSL and are in the finals of one of the most difficult tourneys to date.

similar results in GSL my asss


lol

I think I can solve this. Life and Leenock are still go-to guys when it comes to Zerg. Mystery solved.
Kontys
Profile Joined October 2011
Finland659 Posts
April 27 2013 22:20 GMT
#9478
Naniwa lost his nerve there on Akilon. He would have won if he'd have just attacked with ranged Colossus, after the first Hydra attack failed. He was doubling his opponent's army supply, Leenock had NO UPGRADES WHATSOEVER, and he could have recalled to eliminate base race possibility after dealing lethal damage at natural / 3rd area. I believe he will look back on Akilon, win or lose these finals, thinking that he seriously messed it up.
Absentia
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom973 Posts
April 27 2013 22:20 GMT
#9479
On April 28 2013 07:17 Hassybaby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2013 07:16 freetgy wrote:
On April 28 2013 07:14 veKtory wrote:
On April 28 2013 07:12 freetgy wrote:
this is an unwinnable situation right there, despite Naniwa beeing so much ahead and having both Storm and Archons...

Hope balance team was watching.


Yea they should really put a cap on the number of bases a Zerg can take. Make them so they can't take more than 3 bases.


nope it showed that even with Phoenix Range, PHoenix suck vs. mass Mutas


I totally agree that 6-7 phoenix should be totally able to take on a cloud of 30+ mutas

Totally


One of the issues, though, is that if you commit too much to phoenix, you're going to get stomped by a by a 40+ larva tech switch.
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
April 27 2013 22:20 GMT
#9480
On April 28 2013 07:19 Wintex wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2013 07:17 sitromit wrote:
On April 28 2013 07:16 MuseMike wrote:
On April 28 2013 07:15 sitromit wrote:
On April 28 2013 07:13 Relaaja wrote:
On April 28 2013 07:12 Bagi wrote:
What was Naniwas major mistake in this game? Did he need to do more econ damage by harass?

Not balance whining, just trying to understand how this style of PvZ works.


Zero mistakes. Protoss just have to play so much better to win zerg.

Yeah, because Naniwa is anywhere near Leenock's skill level.

I'd say they are pretty close. Nani has faced Leenock in the MLG finals been to ro8 GSL twice won the Blizzard tournament.

I would say you're delusional if you think their skill is remotely close.

They are both extremely skilled. Leenock is a stronger play atm I would say. Leenock is in a better practice environment. Life takes em both down.

Life and Leenock trade fairly evenly whenever they meet
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
Prev 1 472 473 474 475 476 558 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Cup
00:00
#80 (TLMC 22 Edition)
PiGStarcraft275
davetesta21
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft322
CosmosSc2 41
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 11335
GuemChi 3512
Artosis 625
910 23
NaDa 10
Moletrap 1
Dota 2
monkeys_forever686
League of Legends
Doublelift4756
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King87
Other Games
summit1g8749
tarik_tv5241
Liquid`RaSZi1436
shahzam523
C9.Mang0491
JimRising 370
ToD143
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick909
BasetradeTV500
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream43
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 46
• musti20045 31
• davetesta27
• Response 2
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 43
• RayReign 26
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Other Games
• Scarra1351
Upcoming Events
GSL
9h 25m
Classic vs Cure
Maru vs Rogue
GSL
1d 9h
SHIN vs Zoun
ByuN vs herO
OSC
1d 10h
OSC
1d 12h
Replay Cast
1d 23h
Escore
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Zoun vs Ryung
Lambo vs ShoWTimE
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
SHIN vs Bunny
ByuN vs Shameless
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
Krystianer vs TriGGeR
Cure vs Rogue
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
BSL
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Cure vs Zoun
Clem vs Lambo
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
BSL
4 days
GSL
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-05-02
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W6
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
Escore Tournament S2: W7
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.