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[Code A] GSL S1 2013 Preliminaries - Page 57

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
1954 CommentsPost a Reply
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ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12393 Posts
January 30 2013 18:16 GMT
#1121
On January 31 2013 00:40 Elroi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2013 23:54 ETisME wrote:
On January 30 2013 18:58 CoR wrote:
On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote:
Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify.

Sad though that MMA didnt get through

Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player.


how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy.
i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above"
or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^

Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify.
Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone
For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players.

You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague.

GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway.

wow I didn't expect to start a Kespa/PL vs GSL argument @@

I watch proleague fairly consistently due to me having a long holiday + I live in the Asia timezone.
I think it's safe to say Flash is good in Proleague compared to most but if you compare him to the best terrans in SC2, like Taeja or MVP, I really haven't seen too much of him showcasing anything special

But overall, I haven't seen a lot of AMAZING games in Proleague yet, maybe because of casters/bo1/weird maps.
The best one I like so far is actually Stephano ZvT roach hydra ultra game on cloud kingdom.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Taefox
Profile Joined March 2010
1533 Posts
January 30 2013 18:20 GMT
#1122
Glad too see aLive get this xDDDD hwaiting
@taefoxy
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
January 30 2013 18:30 GMT
#1123
On January 31 2013 02:25 warmus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2013 01:47 Dodgin wrote:
On January 31 2013 01:17 warmus wrote:
On January 31 2013 00:48 Dodgin wrote:
On January 31 2013 00:40 Elroi wrote:
On January 30 2013 23:54 ETisME wrote:
On January 30 2013 18:58 CoR wrote:
On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote:
Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify.

Sad though that MMA didnt get through

Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player.


how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy.
i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above"
or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^

Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify.
Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone
For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players.

You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague.

GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway.


he said Flash isn't doing anything amazing compared to the other top players which is true

also, all the good kespa players are trying to qualify but they failed to do so. I don't really buy the excuse that they didn't prepare enough, if they're that much better than the B teamers not good enough to play in proleague they should be able to win without preparing, which they did in the case of rain, s2, true and shine.


I have got mad respect for you man, but i think you are wrong. At the kespa (regardless of is it high/ low) their skills are veeery similar between each other, i think at least last weeks results confirm this statement. You also cannot deny, and that is with 100% certainty that between PL and GSL, if they HAVE to chose, PL teams will focus/ dedicate more time to PL practice than GSL. This is a no brainer, and whilst several other things effect the amount of practice that will get put into GSL (like the teams current standing in PL), GSL will never be a priority for ace players on the teams, unless we are talking grand final of code S, or there is simply no OSL/PL around at that point. But as 2 leagues are running at the same time right now, the teams focus much more on PL than GSL, simply because to them it is much more important. And then they go on to play in GSL, ofcourse with some strategies in mind, but on maps that they practice much less (considering the differences between GSL and PL map pool), and against opponents that have done nothing for the past week or two practicing specifically for GSL. It thus becomes a lottery of skill and luck and preperation in a funky algorithm where some players make it through to code S round of 16 like roro while others like stats dont make it into code A, though i dont think one can argue that roro is so much better than stats (or wooki, or i am sure many others).

TLDR: Top level starcraft is to close to call reliably, and with a busy schedule teams will prioritize. First according to event (PL>GSL) than according to specific players (is he playing in PL this week?). Then people will have a specified level of preperation, making them either more or less likely to win. Has very little to do with players being "better" or "worse" at this point.

P.S Shine is terrible as well, he basically lost to a first timer this week, except he was too scared to attack with 20roaches vs a spine and a couple of lings, have to trade him of FPL asap. He has like a 2-6 record in pl? Kespa players should never ever be judged by GSL results, they have so little meaning. Lets wait till an OSL or WCS comes around, then maybe we can compare better. Using GSL as indication is silly in their case


I have to heavily disagree that top level starcraft is too close too call reliably, what about Life? He's just good, he goes to school, he doesn't practice all day like some other players do but he wrecks everyone anyway. I think the Kespa skill level just isn't that high on average so what you're actually seeing is just them taking bo1's off each other because #1 bo1 is volatile and #2 there's no one super good in kespa that they can outclass everyone else and win all the time.

I agree that kespa players will prioritize proleague but they should be able to handle both just like they have in the past with osl and msl, if they don't put in sufficient time to prepare for individual leagues then that's just their loss and they miss out on the fame, the glory and the prize money.


I get what you are saying. I do think that kespa pros recognize the potential ability of GSL to make them famous and popular, however when they weigh it against the same potential but through PL and tv exposure, i think its almost unanimous agreement that doing well and becoming great in PL will yield greater benefit than doing the same in the GSL.

I do agree that probably (actually certainly) no kespa player is quite on the level represented by Life, but then again no one really is. He is currently in a league of his own,a gem that was bound to be found amongst so many pros playing for over 2 years. Only MVP has exerted this level of dominance at one pont, though apparently Life broke the peak elo record recently. While no kespa can matchup to life, i think a substantial amount of them could at least give everyone else a run for their money, if not straight up win. And in the PL format, all things considered I would be worried for majority of eSF teams.

The TRUE quote shows that there is little incentive for kespa players to practice. This again makes sense. How may hours you have to grind out in practice to get to code a? and then to code s, where you perhaps can start making money? and then to get to the top, to finally become regonized as a great player? is that effort worth the risk of the off chance that despite practice a guy beats you in a bo3 and everything gets pushed for two months, while also costing your team in PL? Compare that with a week to week exposure on tv, where you need to prepare a great build for two maps a week, and if you succeed you soon become recognized. The point that I am making is that preparation really does matter at the top level of starcraft (especially considering different map pools) and that looking at GSL results as determinant or a measure of a kespa players skill is being overly harsh on them, and perhaps skewed. No beef though


If all that is true I find it really sad, even as someone who followed Brood War and SK Telecom I find it really hard to care about kespa guys who are only playing in proleague and nothing else. Team leagues are fun but they are not the main focus for the starcraft 2 audience. If you have a whole big group of guys only playing in a bo1 format team league and nothing else you're never going to be able to tell how truly good they are, they're playing in their own little box and not facing the best players outside it. Up until now, and still now, the greatest players in Starcraft 2 are measured by their individual league achievements, and that's still going to be the case after proleague has been around for a while.

Kespa players are not going to become famous and popular in the foreign scene on the back of their proleague wins alone, they will never be appreciated in the same way as the stars of GSL ( and OSL when it comes back ) and big foreign tournaments and that's too bad. I just want to see the excuses end and see some good performances from them, they should try harder if that's what it takes.
magicallypuzzled
Profile Joined June 2011
United States588 Posts
January 30 2013 18:36 GMT
#1124
On January 31 2013 02:26 Dodgin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2013 02:22 Whatson wrote:
On January 31 2013 02:19 Wingblade wrote:
On January 31 2013 01:15 FineAndDandy wrote:
On January 31 2013 00:48 Dodgin wrote:
On January 31 2013 00:40 Elroi wrote:
On January 30 2013 23:54 ETisME wrote:
On January 30 2013 18:58 CoR wrote:
On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote:
Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify.

Sad though that MMA didnt get through

Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player.


how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy.
i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above"
or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^

Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify.
Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone
For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players.

You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague.

GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway.


he said Flash isn't doing anything amazing compared to the other top players which is true

also, all the good kespa players are trying to qualify but they failed to do so. I don't really buy the excuse that they didn't prepare enough, if they're that much better than the B teamers not good enough to play in proleague they should be able to win without preparing, which they did in the case of rain, s2, true and shine.


Reason is SC2 is too random, anyone can win against anyone among Korean progamers. Even life and parting will have a hard time in qualifers if they are not lucky.



That last sentence killed my soul. And it would probably kill Partings if he heard that... SC2 is not THAT random, Life and Parting would blow the qualifiers away just based on their body of work.

Keep in mind that Parting bombed out hard at IEM. And he only won 2-1 against combatez.


didn't parting take third at iem? and he lost to Dream, a Code A player.


a code a player that is known as a very very good tvp sniper, and is also known to have a huge weakness vs zerg. kind of hard to not be code a when so much of code s is zerg.
is depressed
raga4ka
Profile Joined February 2008
Bulgaria5679 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-30 18:45:00
January 30 2013 18:37 GMT
#1125
So s2 , Alone , Shine and Revival made it , but Zero , Stats Wooki and Dear failed . Doesn't make any sense .If s2 , Shine and Alone are that good , then why weren't they send more in PL ?
Baroninthetree
Profile Joined August 2012
United States473 Posts
January 30 2013 18:52 GMT
#1126
On January 31 2013 02:19 Wingblade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2013 01:15 FineAndDandy wrote:
On January 31 2013 00:48 Dodgin wrote:
On January 31 2013 00:40 Elroi wrote:
On January 30 2013 23:54 ETisME wrote:
On January 30 2013 18:58 CoR wrote:
On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote:
Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify.

Sad though that MMA didnt get through

Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player.


how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy.
i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above"
or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^

Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify.
Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone
For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players.

You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague.

GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway.


he said Flash isn't doing anything amazing compared to the other top players which is true

also, all the good kespa players are trying to qualify but they failed to do so. I don't really buy the excuse that they didn't prepare enough, if they're that much better than the B teamers not good enough to play in proleague they should be able to win without preparing, which they did in the case of rain, s2, true and shine.


Reason is SC2 is too random, anyone can win against anyone among Korean progamers. Even life and parting will have a hard time in qualifers if they are not lucky.



That last sentence killed my soul. And it would probably kill Partings if he heard that... SC2 is not THAT random, Life and Parting would blow the qualifiers away just based on their body of work.


Haha, another typical excuse for KESPA being normal. SC2 is random, so it doesn't matter anymore whether kespa are good or not.

random? of course it's random, its BO1 between average players!
Random? Tell that to Life, see how he get 4 champs in one season; tell that to MKP, see how he stay in code S ro 16 for 6 seasons; tell that to gumiho, see how he managed to stay in code S for 7 seansons, tell that to Leenock, see how he bully everyone in every MLG. And see how the old names, nestea, losira, seed, alive always come back when fell

DiMano
Profile Joined July 2011
Korea (South)2066 Posts
January 30 2013 18:54 GMT
#1127
On January 31 2013 03:37 raga4ka wrote:
So s2 , Alone , Shine and Revival made it , but Zero , Stats Wooki and Dear failed . Doesn't make any sense .If s2 , Shine and Alone are that good , then why weren't they send more in PL ?

They are good Shine was sent as Ace sometimes, TRUE dfeated Stats and was interviewd once, s2 is pretty good too.
dcemuser
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3248 Posts
January 30 2013 19:02 GMT
#1128
On January 31 2013 03:52 Baroninthetree wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2013 02:19 Wingblade wrote:
On January 31 2013 01:15 FineAndDandy wrote:
On January 31 2013 00:48 Dodgin wrote:
On January 31 2013 00:40 Elroi wrote:
On January 30 2013 23:54 ETisME wrote:
On January 30 2013 18:58 CoR wrote:
On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote:
Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify.

Sad though that MMA didnt get through

Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player.


how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy.
i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above"
or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^

Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify.
Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone
For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players.

You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague.

GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway.


he said Flash isn't doing anything amazing compared to the other top players which is true

also, all the good kespa players are trying to qualify but they failed to do so. I don't really buy the excuse that they didn't prepare enough, if they're that much better than the B teamers not good enough to play in proleague they should be able to win without preparing, which they did in the case of rain, s2, true and shine.


Reason is SC2 is too random, anyone can win against anyone among Korean progamers. Even life and parting will have a hard time in qualifers if they are not lucky.



That last sentence killed my soul. And it would probably kill Partings if he heard that... SC2 is not THAT random, Life and Parting would blow the qualifiers away just based on their body of work.


Haha, another typical excuse for KESPA being normal. SC2 is random, so it doesn't matter anymore whether kespa are good or not.

random? of course it's random, its BO1 between average players!
Random? Tell that to Life, see how he get 4 champs in one season; tell that to MKP, see how he stay in code S ro 16 for 6 seasons; tell that to gumiho, see how he managed to stay in code S for 7 seansons, tell that to Leenock, see how he bully everyone in every MLG. And see how the old names, nestea, losira, seed, alive always come back when fell



Not that I disagree with what you're saying entirely, but Code S has a lot more opportunities to stay in than getting through the Code A qualifiers. You have to lose 2 Bo3s and then 3-4 more games on top of that to move from Code S to Code A.

It is a lot harder for skilled players to enter Code A than it is for skilled players to stay in Code S.
Baroninthetree
Profile Joined August 2012
United States473 Posts
January 30 2013 19:06 GMT
#1129
On January 31 2013 03:30 Dodgin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2013 02:25 warmus wrote:
On January 31 2013 01:47 Dodgin wrote:
On January 31 2013 01:17 warmus wrote:
On January 31 2013 00:48 Dodgin wrote:
On January 31 2013 00:40 Elroi wrote:
On January 30 2013 23:54 ETisME wrote:
On January 30 2013 18:58 CoR wrote:
On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote:
Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify.

Sad though that MMA didnt get through

Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player.


how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy.
i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above"
or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^

Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify.
Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone
For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players.

You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague.

GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway.


he said Flash isn't doing anything amazing compared to the other top players which is true

also, all the good kespa players are trying to qualify but they failed to do so. I don't really buy the excuse that they didn't prepare enough, if they're that much better than the B teamers not good enough to play in proleague they should be able to win without preparing, which they did in the case of rain, s2, true and shine.


I have got mad respect for you man, but i think you are wrong. At the kespa (regardless of is it high/ low) their skills are veeery similar between each other, i think at least last weeks results confirm this statement. You also cannot deny, and that is with 100% certainty that between PL and GSL, if they HAVE to chose, PL teams will focus/ dedicate more time to PL practice than GSL. This is a no brainer, and whilst several other things effect the amount of practice that will get put into GSL (like the teams current standing in PL), GSL will never be a priority for ace players on the teams, unless we are talking grand final of code S, or there is simply no OSL/PL around at that point. But as 2 leagues are running at the same time right now, the teams focus much more on PL than GSL, simply because to them it is much more important. And then they go on to play in GSL, ofcourse with some strategies in mind, but on maps that they practice much less (considering the differences between GSL and PL map pool), and against opponents that have done nothing for the past week or two practicing specifically for GSL. It thus becomes a lottery of skill and luck and preperation in a funky algorithm where some players make it through to code S round of 16 like roro while others like stats dont make it into code A, though i dont think one can argue that roro is so much better than stats (or wooki, or i am sure many others).

TLDR: Top level starcraft is to close to call reliably, and with a busy schedule teams will prioritize. First according to event (PL>GSL) than according to specific players (is he playing in PL this week?). Then people will have a specified level of preperation, making them either more or less likely to win. Has very little to do with players being "better" or "worse" at this point.

P.S Shine is terrible as well, he basically lost to a first timer this week, except he was too scared to attack with 20roaches vs a spine and a couple of lings, have to trade him of FPL asap. He has like a 2-6 record in pl? Kespa players should never ever be judged by GSL results, they have so little meaning. Lets wait till an OSL or WCS comes around, then maybe we can compare better. Using GSL as indication is silly in their case


I have to heavily disagree that top level starcraft is too close too call reliably, what about Life? He's just good, he goes to school, he doesn't practice all day like some other players do but he wrecks everyone anyway. I think the Kespa skill level just isn't that high on average so what you're actually seeing is just them taking bo1's off each other because #1 bo1 is volatile and #2 there's no one super good in kespa that they can outclass everyone else and win all the time.

I agree that kespa players will prioritize proleague but they should be able to handle both just like they have in the past with osl and msl, if they don't put in sufficient time to prepare for individual leagues then that's just their loss and they miss out on the fame, the glory and the prize money.


I get what you are saying. I do think that kespa pros recognize the potential ability of GSL to make them famous and popular, however when they weigh it against the same potential but through PL and tv exposure, i think its almost unanimous agreement that doing well and becoming great in PL will yield greater benefit than doing the same in the GSL.

I do agree that probably (actually certainly) no kespa player is quite on the level represented by Life, but then again no one really is. He is currently in a league of his own,a gem that was bound to be found amongst so many pros playing for over 2 years. Only MVP has exerted this level of dominance at one pont, though apparently Life broke the peak elo record recently. While no kespa can matchup to life, i think a substantial amount of them could at least give everyone else a run for their money, if not straight up win. And in the PL format, all things considered I would be worried for majority of eSF teams.

The TRUE quote shows that there is little incentive for kespa players to practice. This again makes sense. How may hours you have to grind out in practice to get to code a? and then to code s, where you perhaps can start making money? and then to get to the top, to finally become regonized as a great player? is that effort worth the risk of the off chance that despite practice a guy beats you in a bo3 and everything gets pushed for two months, while also costing your team in PL? Compare that with a week to week exposure on tv, where you need to prepare a great build for two maps a week, and if you succeed you soon become recognized. The point that I am making is that preparation really does matter at the top level of starcraft (especially considering different map pools) and that looking at GSL results as determinant or a measure of a kespa players skill is being overly harsh on them, and perhaps skewed. No beef though


If all that is true I find it really sad, even as someone who followed Brood War and SK Telecom I find it really hard to care about kespa guys who are only playing in proleague and nothing else. Team leagues are fun but they are not the main focus for the starcraft 2 audience. If you have a whole big group of guys only playing in a bo1 format team league and nothing else you're never going to be able to tell how truly good they are, they're playing in their own little box and not facing the best players outside it. Up until now, and still now, the greatest players in Starcraft 2 are measured by their individual league achievements, and that's still going to be the case after proleague has been around for a while.

Kespa players are not going to become famous and popular in the foreign scene on the back of their proleague wins alone, they will never be appreciated in the same way as the stars of GSL ( and OSL when it comes back ) and big foreign tournaments and that's too bad. I just want to see the excuses end and see some good performances from them, they should try harder if that's what it takes.


It is sad. Not to mention that continuous focus on PL hinder players from getting to a higher level. All the map creep, counter build thing, practice BO1 for specific player all the time, really kills players' overall skill. Stats, the king of Ohana, is just a typical example of such sacrifice for team league.

It's obviously that kespa players are falling behind after PL started. Only 2 players advanced to Code S this season. Even Rain become average compared to his domination several mths ago.

Even eg-tl players are affected by this, thats why taeja, stephano wont play anymore. Of course, taeja is injured, but he surely will give up PL for individual league.

As long as SC2 is an RTS, skill will always be measured by individual achievement. Lets be frank, this is not LOL or Dota.

However, i do think kespa player will catch up after HOTS, if they put more energy in individual league like OSL.


Baroninthetree
Profile Joined August 2012
United States473 Posts
January 30 2013 19:12 GMT
#1130
On January 31 2013 04:02 dcemuser wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2013 03:52 Baroninthetree wrote:
On January 31 2013 02:19 Wingblade wrote:
On January 31 2013 01:15 FineAndDandy wrote:
On January 31 2013 00:48 Dodgin wrote:
On January 31 2013 00:40 Elroi wrote:
On January 30 2013 23:54 ETisME wrote:
On January 30 2013 18:58 CoR wrote:
On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote:
Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify.

Sad though that MMA didnt get through

Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player.


how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy.
i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above"
or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^

Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify.
Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone
For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players.

You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague.

GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway.


he said Flash isn't doing anything amazing compared to the other top players which is true

also, all the good kespa players are trying to qualify but they failed to do so. I don't really buy the excuse that they didn't prepare enough, if they're that much better than the B teamers not good enough to play in proleague they should be able to win without preparing, which they did in the case of rain, s2, true and shine.


Reason is SC2 is too random, anyone can win against anyone among Korean progamers. Even life and parting will have a hard time in qualifers if they are not lucky.



That last sentence killed my soul. And it would probably kill Partings if he heard that... SC2 is not THAT random, Life and Parting would blow the qualifiers away just based on their body of work.


Haha, another typical excuse for KESPA being normal. SC2 is random, so it doesn't matter anymore whether kespa are good or not.

random? of course it's random, its BO1 between average players!
Random? Tell that to Life, see how he get 4 champs in one season; tell that to MKP, see how he stay in code S ro 16 for 6 seasons; tell that to gumiho, see how he managed to stay in code S for 7 seansons, tell that to Leenock, see how he bully everyone in every MLG. And see how the old names, nestea, losira, seed, alive always come back when fell



Not that I disagree with what you're saying entirely, but Code S has a lot more opportunities to stay in than getting through the Code A qualifiers. You have to lose 2 Bo3s and then 3-4 more games on top of that to move from Code S to Code A.

It is a lot harder for skilled players to enter Code A than it is for skilled players to stay in Code S.

I would say the format has changed a lot. Now its much easier to fall to code B from code S. You just lost 3 Bo3, you are in Code B. See how Jaedong did that. I would say, a considerable amout of the Code S players would fall to code B next season.
Then again, it's hard to come back from code B, but see nestea come back from Code B all the way to Code S? Also, rain, alive seed went right back.Its hard, but not that hard. Players like bisu cant made out of code B for 3 seasons, theres no excuse for that. Sad bisu....
BretZ
Profile Joined May 2011
United States1510 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-30 19:20:02
January 30 2013 19:19 GMT
#1131
BISU NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Atleast he keeps his reputation
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
January 30 2013 19:20 GMT
#1132
I think that without extensive GSL participation it's only the all-kill rounds that can hype up some of the unknown KeSPA players. If you miss your chance to perform really well during one of these, then you can literally be the best player on the best team, win the pro league, and have nobody care about who you are. You need repeated amazing performances to become a star, and I think currently GSL is your best bet. I also think that participating in foreign tournaments offers a good chance for a number of KeSPA players.

I don't know if SC2 is too volatile or not. I think the fact that we keep asking ourselves this question indicates that it's an issue, but in any case, it might just be the fact that the game is still in development. I do feel that many players from KeSPA are basically on the same level and it will take a few more years for them to really develop and start to differentiate in strength. In the mean time, every qualifier will be random and it will only be at the high end of performances where we will see a bit of consistency. I think Life will win this GSL, but outside of him I don't see that many consistent performances.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
xN.07)MaK
Profile Joined January 2006
Spain1159 Posts
January 30 2013 19:23 GMT
#1133
On January 31 2013 04:02 dcemuser wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2013 03:52 Baroninthetree wrote:
On January 31 2013 02:19 Wingblade wrote:
On January 31 2013 01:15 FineAndDandy wrote:
On January 31 2013 00:48 Dodgin wrote:
On January 31 2013 00:40 Elroi wrote:
On January 30 2013 23:54 ETisME wrote:
On January 30 2013 18:58 CoR wrote:
On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote:
Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify.

Sad though that MMA didnt get through

Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player.


how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy.
i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above"
or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^

Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify.
Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone
For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players.

You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague.

GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway.


he said Flash isn't doing anything amazing compared to the other top players which is true

also, all the good kespa players are trying to qualify but they failed to do so. I don't really buy the excuse that they didn't prepare enough, if they're that much better than the B teamers not good enough to play in proleague they should be able to win without preparing, which they did in the case of rain, s2, true and shine.


Reason is SC2 is too random, anyone can win against anyone among Korean progamers. Even life and parting will have a hard time in qualifers if they are not lucky.



That last sentence killed my soul. And it would probably kill Partings if he heard that... SC2 is not THAT random, Life and Parting would blow the qualifiers away just based on their body of work.


Haha, another typical excuse for KESPA being normal. SC2 is random, so it doesn't matter anymore whether kespa are good or not.

random? of course it's random, its BO1 between average players!
Random? Tell that to Life, see how he get 4 champs in one season; tell that to MKP, see how he stay in code S ro 16 for 6 seasons; tell that to gumiho, see how he managed to stay in code S for 7 seansons, tell that to Leenock, see how he bully everyone in every MLG. And see how the old names, nestea, losira, seed, alive always come back when fell



Not that I disagree with what you're saying entirely, but Code S has a lot more opportunities to stay in than getting through the Code A qualifiers. You have to lose 2 Bo3s and then 3-4 more games on top of that to move from Code S to Code A.

It is a lot harder for skilled players to enter Code A than it is for skilled players to stay in Code S.


I remember many of us complaining about how volatile was code S at the beginning, so it was changed and now a code S and now it's the opposite. I prefer this situation, where up and coming players have to fight harder to get into the elite, and code S players have a lot of chances to remain in the elite. I'm pretty sure both systems would stabilize as time goes by (now with hots it's a different story), but as expectators we prefer the second as our heroes are not lost that often.
El micro es el último recurso que les queda a los que no producen lo suficiente
Baroninthetree
Profile Joined August 2012
United States473 Posts
January 30 2013 19:26 GMT
#1134
On January 31 2013 04:23 xN.07)MaK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2013 04:02 dcemuser wrote:
On January 31 2013 03:52 Baroninthetree wrote:
On January 31 2013 02:19 Wingblade wrote:
On January 31 2013 01:15 FineAndDandy wrote:
On January 31 2013 00:48 Dodgin wrote:
On January 31 2013 00:40 Elroi wrote:
On January 30 2013 23:54 ETisME wrote:
On January 30 2013 18:58 CoR wrote:
On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote:
Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify.

Sad though that MMA didnt get through

Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player.


how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy.
i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above"
or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^

Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify.
Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone
For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players.

You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague.

GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway.


he said Flash isn't doing anything amazing compared to the other top players which is true

also, all the good kespa players are trying to qualify but they failed to do so. I don't really buy the excuse that they didn't prepare enough, if they're that much better than the B teamers not good enough to play in proleague they should be able to win without preparing, which they did in the case of rain, s2, true and shine.


Reason is SC2 is too random, anyone can win against anyone among Korean progamers. Even life and parting will have a hard time in qualifers if they are not lucky.



That last sentence killed my soul. And it would probably kill Partings if he heard that... SC2 is not THAT random, Life and Parting would blow the qualifiers away just based on their body of work.


Haha, another typical excuse for KESPA being normal. SC2 is random, so it doesn't matter anymore whether kespa are good or not.

random? of course it's random, its BO1 between average players!
Random? Tell that to Life, see how he get 4 champs in one season; tell that to MKP, see how he stay in code S ro 16 for 6 seasons; tell that to gumiho, see how he managed to stay in code S for 7 seansons, tell that to Leenock, see how he bully everyone in every MLG. And see how the old names, nestea, losira, seed, alive always come back when fell



Not that I disagree with what you're saying entirely, but Code S has a lot more opportunities to stay in than getting through the Code A qualifiers. You have to lose 2 Bo3s and then 3-4 more games on top of that to move from Code S to Code A.

It is a lot harder for skilled players to enter Code A than it is for skilled players to stay in Code S.


I remember many of us complaining about how volatile was code S at the beginning, so it was changed and now a code S and now it's the opposite. I prefer this situation, where up and coming players have to fight harder to get into the elite, and code S players have a lot of chances to remain in the elite. I'm pretty sure both systems would stabilize as time goes by (now with hots it's a different story), but as expectators we prefer the second as our heroes are not lost that often.

That's exactly the concept of Seeds in all sports and leagues.
tshi
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2495 Posts
January 30 2013 20:24 GMT
#1135
Respect for Artosis to try to qualify considering he is a dad now and the code-a qualifiers are even harder with more kespa players in them instead of 'random dudes who dont have a team but are still really really good'. : (
scrub - inexperienced player with relatively little skill and excessive arrogance
derpface
Profile Joined October 2012
Sweden925 Posts
January 30 2013 20:35 GMT
#1136
Wouldnt have mattered if Bisu would have qualified because Shine did aswell.
gg no re #_< no1 Hydra and Leta fan >_#
renezerg
Profile Joined May 2007
Peru186 Posts
January 30 2013 21:20 GMT
#1137
On January 31 2013 05:35 derpface wrote:
Wouldnt have mattered if Bisu would have qualified because Shine did aswell.


I lold quite hard
gg
Vasoline73
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States7801 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-30 21:23:55
January 30 2013 21:20 GMT
#1138
KT update
OUT: (P)Stats, (P)Wooki (P7GAB), (Z)HoeJJa, (Z)Acacia, (T)BarrackS
Yet to play: (Z)Action, (Z)Crazy-Hydra, (T)Hitman, (T)Mind, (P)Motive, (Z)PenguiN, (P)MyuNgSiK

Hoping at least (Z)Action, (Z)Crazy-Hydra, and (P)Motive have what it takes...
MasterOfPuppets
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Romania6942 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-30 22:03:38
January 30 2013 22:00 GMT
#1139
On January 31 2013 05:35 derpface wrote:
Wouldnt have mattered if Bisu would have qualified because Shine did aswell.


LOL Bisu.. this time failing in the qualifiers to a Terran? Man he's fallen hard.

Really interesting to see all the strong players that didn't make it through. Poor MMA. ;;

Also, any hints as to who 최성일 might be? TLPD links to this empty profile: (P)ChoiSungIl. Coming out of nowhere and beating up dreamertt and Lucky... will keep an eye out for him for sure. ^^
"my shaft scares me too" - strenx 2014
Sumahi
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Guam5609 Posts
January 30 2013 22:36 GMT
#1140
So to see no Startale players made it through so far. Is Ace competing? I didn't see his name in the Day 1 brackets.
Startale <3, ST_July <3, HongUn <3, Savior <3, Gretorp <3, Nada <3, Rainbow <3, Ret <3, Squirtle <3, Bomber <3
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