On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote: Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify.
Sad though that MMA didnt get through
Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player.
how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy. i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above" or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^
Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify. Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players.
You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague.
GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway.
wow I didn't expect to start a Kespa/PL vs GSL argument @@
I watch proleague fairly consistently due to me having a long holiday + I live in the Asia timezone. I think it's safe to say Flash is good in Proleague compared to most but if you compare him to the best terrans in SC2, like Taeja or MVP, I really haven't seen too much of him showcasing anything special
But overall, I haven't seen a lot of AMAZING games in Proleague yet, maybe because of casters/bo1/weird maps. The best one I like so far is actually Stephano ZvT roach hydra ultra game on cloud kingdom.
On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote: Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify.
Sad though that MMA didnt get through
Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player.
how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy. i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above" or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^
Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify. Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players.
You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague.
GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway.
he said Flash isn't doing anything amazing compared to the other top players which is true
also, all the good kespa players are trying to qualify but they failed to do so. I don't really buy the excuse that they didn't prepare enough, if they're that much better than the B teamers not good enough to play in proleague they should be able to win without preparing, which they did in the case of rain, s2, true and shine.
I have got mad respect for you man, but i think you are wrong. At the kespa (regardless of is it high/ low) their skills are veeery similar between each other, i think at least last weeks results confirm this statement. You also cannot deny, and that is with 100% certainty that between PL and GSL, if they HAVE to chose, PL teams will focus/ dedicate more time to PL practice than GSL. This is a no brainer, and whilst several other things effect the amount of practice that will get put into GSL (like the teams current standing in PL), GSL will never be a priority for ace players on the teams, unless we are talking grand final of code S, or there is simply no OSL/PL around at that point. But as 2 leagues are running at the same time right now, the teams focus much more on PL than GSL, simply because to them it is much more important. And then they go on to play in GSL, ofcourse with some strategies in mind, but on maps that they practice much less (considering the differences between GSL and PL map pool), and against opponents that have done nothing for the past week or two practicing specifically for GSL. It thus becomes a lottery of skill and luck and preperation in a funky algorithm where some players make it through to code S round of 16 like roro while others like stats dont make it into code A, though i dont think one can argue that roro is so much better than stats (or wooki, or i am sure many others).
TLDR: Top level starcraft is to close to call reliably, and with a busy schedule teams will prioritize. First according to event (PL>GSL) than according to specific players (is he playing in PL this week?). Then people will have a specified level of preperation, making them either more or less likely to win. Has very little to do with players being "better" or "worse" at this point.
P.S Shine is terrible as well, he basically lost to a first timer this week, except he was too scared to attack with 20roaches vs a spine and a couple of lings, have to trade him of FPL asap. He has like a 2-6 record in pl? Kespa players should never ever be judged by GSL results, they have so little meaning. Lets wait till an OSL or WCS comes around, then maybe we can compare better. Using GSL as indication is silly in their case
I have to heavily disagree that top level starcraft is too close too call reliably, what about Life? He's just good, he goes to school, he doesn't practice all day like some other players do but he wrecks everyone anyway. I think the Kespa skill level just isn't that high on average so what you're actually seeing is just them taking bo1's off each other because #1 bo1 is volatile and #2 there's no one super good in kespa that they can outclass everyone else and win all the time.
I agree that kespa players will prioritize proleague but they should be able to handle both just like they have in the past with osl and msl, if they don't put in sufficient time to prepare for individual leagues then that's just their loss and they miss out on the fame, the glory and the prize money.
I get what you are saying. I do think that kespa pros recognize the potential ability of GSL to make them famous and popular, however when they weigh it against the same potential but through PL and tv exposure, i think its almost unanimous agreement that doing well and becoming great in PL will yield greater benefit than doing the same in the GSL.
I do agree that probably (actually certainly) no kespa player is quite on the level represented by Life, but then again no one really is. He is currently in a league of his own,a gem that was bound to be found amongst so many pros playing for over 2 years. Only MVP has exerted this level of dominance at one pont, though apparently Life broke the peak elo record recently. While no kespa can matchup to life, i think a substantial amount of them could at least give everyone else a run for their money, if not straight up win. And in the PL format, all things considered I would be worried for majority of eSF teams.
The TRUE quote shows that there is little incentive for kespa players to practice. This again makes sense. How may hours you have to grind out in practice to get to code a? and then to code s, where you perhaps can start making money? and then to get to the top, to finally become regonized as a great player? is that effort worth the risk of the off chance that despite practice a guy beats you in a bo3 and everything gets pushed for two months, while also costing your team in PL? Compare that with a week to week exposure on tv, where you need to prepare a great build for two maps a week, and if you succeed you soon become recognized. The point that I am making is that preparation really does matter at the top level of starcraft (especially considering different map pools) and that looking at GSL results as determinant or a measure of a kespa players skill is being overly harsh on them, and perhaps skewed. No beef though
If all that is true I find it really sad, even as someone who followed Brood War and SK Telecom I find it really hard to care about kespa guys who are only playing in proleague and nothing else. Team leagues are fun but they are not the main focus for the starcraft 2 audience. If you have a whole big group of guys only playing in a bo1 format team league and nothing else you're never going to be able to tell how truly good they are, they're playing in their own little box and not facing the best players outside it. Up until now, and still now, the greatest players in Starcraft 2 are measured by their individual league achievements, and that's still going to be the case after proleague has been around for a while.
Kespa players are not going to become famous and popular in the foreign scene on the back of their proleague wins alone, they will never be appreciated in the same way as the stars of GSL ( and OSL when it comes back ) and big foreign tournaments and that's too bad. I just want to see the excuses end and see some good performances from them, they should try harder if that's what it takes.
On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote: Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify.
Sad though that MMA didnt get through
Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player.
how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy. i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above" or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^
Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify. Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players.
You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague.
GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway.
he said Flash isn't doing anything amazing compared to the other top players which is true
also, all the good kespa players are trying to qualify but they failed to do so. I don't really buy the excuse that they didn't prepare enough, if they're that much better than the B teamers not good enough to play in proleague they should be able to win without preparing, which they did in the case of rain, s2, true and shine.
Reason is SC2 is too random, anyone can win against anyone among Korean progamers. Even life and parting will have a hard time in qualifers if they are not lucky.
That last sentence killed my soul. And it would probably kill Partings if he heard that... SC2 is not THAT random, Life and Parting would blow the qualifiers away just based on their body of work.
Keep in mind that Parting bombed out hard at IEM. And he only won 2-1 against combatez.
didn't parting take third at iem? and he lost to Dream, a Code A player.
a code a player that is known as a very very good tvp sniper, and is also known to have a huge weakness vs zerg. kind of hard to not be code a when so much of code s is zerg.
So s2 , Alone , Shine and Revival made it , but Zero , Stats Wooki and Dear failed . Doesn't make any sense .If s2 , Shine and Alone are that good , then why weren't they send more in PL ?
On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote: Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify.
Sad though that MMA didnt get through
Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player.
how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy. i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above" or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^
Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify. Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players.
You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague.
GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway.
he said Flash isn't doing anything amazing compared to the other top players which is true
also, all the good kespa players are trying to qualify but they failed to do so. I don't really buy the excuse that they didn't prepare enough, if they're that much better than the B teamers not good enough to play in proleague they should be able to win without preparing, which they did in the case of rain, s2, true and shine.
Reason is SC2 is too random, anyone can win against anyone among Korean progamers. Even life and parting will have a hard time in qualifers if they are not lucky.
That last sentence killed my soul. And it would probably kill Partings if he heard that... SC2 is not THAT random, Life and Parting would blow the qualifiers away just based on their body of work.
Haha, another typical excuse for KESPA being normal. SC2 is random, so it doesn't matter anymore whether kespa are good or not.
random? of course it's random, its BO1 between average players! Random? Tell that to Life, see how he get 4 champs in one season; tell that to MKP, see how he stay in code S ro 16 for 6 seasons; tell that to gumiho, see how he managed to stay in code S for 7 seansons, tell that to Leenock, see how he bully everyone in every MLG. And see how the old names, nestea, losira, seed, alive always come back when fell
On January 31 2013 03:37 raga4ka wrote: So s2 , Alone , Shine and Revival made it , but Zero , Stats Wooki and Dear failed . Doesn't make any sense .If s2 , Shine and Alone are that good , then why weren't they send more in PL ?
They are good Shine was sent as Ace sometimes, TRUE dfeated Stats and was interviewd once, s2 is pretty good too.
On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote: Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify.
Sad though that MMA didnt get through
Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player.
how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy. i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above" or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^
Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify. Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players.
You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague.
GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway.
he said Flash isn't doing anything amazing compared to the other top players which is true
also, all the good kespa players are trying to qualify but they failed to do so. I don't really buy the excuse that they didn't prepare enough, if they're that much better than the B teamers not good enough to play in proleague they should be able to win without preparing, which they did in the case of rain, s2, true and shine.
Reason is SC2 is too random, anyone can win against anyone among Korean progamers. Even life and parting will have a hard time in qualifers if they are not lucky.
That last sentence killed my soul. And it would probably kill Partings if he heard that... SC2 is not THAT random, Life and Parting would blow the qualifiers away just based on their body of work.
Haha, another typical excuse for KESPA being normal. SC2 is random, so it doesn't matter anymore whether kespa are good or not.
random? of course it's random, its BO1 between average players! Random? Tell that to Life, see how he get 4 champs in one season; tell that to MKP, see how he stay in code S ro 16 for 6 seasons; tell that to gumiho, see how he managed to stay in code S for 7 seansons, tell that to Leenock, see how he bully everyone in every MLG. And see how the old names, nestea, losira, seed, alive always come back when fell
Not that I disagree with what you're saying entirely, but Code S has a lot more opportunities to stay in than getting through the Code A qualifiers. You have to lose 2 Bo3s and then 3-4 more games on top of that to move from Code S to Code A.
It is a lot harder for skilled players to enter Code A than it is for skilled players to stay in Code S.
On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote: Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify.
Sad though that MMA didnt get through
Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player.
how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy. i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above" or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^
Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify. Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players.
You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague.
GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway.
he said Flash isn't doing anything amazing compared to the other top players which is true
also, all the good kespa players are trying to qualify but they failed to do so. I don't really buy the excuse that they didn't prepare enough, if they're that much better than the B teamers not good enough to play in proleague they should be able to win without preparing, which they did in the case of rain, s2, true and shine.
I have got mad respect for you man, but i think you are wrong. At the kespa (regardless of is it high/ low) their skills are veeery similar between each other, i think at least last weeks results confirm this statement. You also cannot deny, and that is with 100% certainty that between PL and GSL, if they HAVE to chose, PL teams will focus/ dedicate more time to PL practice than GSL. This is a no brainer, and whilst several other things effect the amount of practice that will get put into GSL (like the teams current standing in PL), GSL will never be a priority for ace players on the teams, unless we are talking grand final of code S, or there is simply no OSL/PL around at that point. But as 2 leagues are running at the same time right now, the teams focus much more on PL than GSL, simply because to them it is much more important. And then they go on to play in GSL, ofcourse with some strategies in mind, but on maps that they practice much less (considering the differences between GSL and PL map pool), and against opponents that have done nothing for the past week or two practicing specifically for GSL. It thus becomes a lottery of skill and luck and preperation in a funky algorithm where some players make it through to code S round of 16 like roro while others like stats dont make it into code A, though i dont think one can argue that roro is so much better than stats (or wooki, or i am sure many others).
TLDR: Top level starcraft is to close to call reliably, and with a busy schedule teams will prioritize. First according to event (PL>GSL) than according to specific players (is he playing in PL this week?). Then people will have a specified level of preperation, making them either more or less likely to win. Has very little to do with players being "better" or "worse" at this point.
P.S Shine is terrible as well, he basically lost to a first timer this week, except he was too scared to attack with 20roaches vs a spine and a couple of lings, have to trade him of FPL asap. He has like a 2-6 record in pl? Kespa players should never ever be judged by GSL results, they have so little meaning. Lets wait till an OSL or WCS comes around, then maybe we can compare better. Using GSL as indication is silly in their case
I have to heavily disagree that top level starcraft is too close too call reliably, what about Life? He's just good, he goes to school, he doesn't practice all day like some other players do but he wrecks everyone anyway. I think the Kespa skill level just isn't that high on average so what you're actually seeing is just them taking bo1's off each other because #1 bo1 is volatile and #2 there's no one super good in kespa that they can outclass everyone else and win all the time.
I agree that kespa players will prioritize proleague but they should be able to handle both just like they have in the past with osl and msl, if they don't put in sufficient time to prepare for individual leagues then that's just their loss and they miss out on the fame, the glory and the prize money.
I get what you are saying. I do think that kespa pros recognize the potential ability of GSL to make them famous and popular, however when they weigh it against the same potential but through PL and tv exposure, i think its almost unanimous agreement that doing well and becoming great in PL will yield greater benefit than doing the same in the GSL.
I do agree that probably (actually certainly) no kespa player is quite on the level represented by Life, but then again no one really is. He is currently in a league of his own,a gem that was bound to be found amongst so many pros playing for over 2 years. Only MVP has exerted this level of dominance at one pont, though apparently Life broke the peak elo record recently. While no kespa can matchup to life, i think a substantial amount of them could at least give everyone else a run for their money, if not straight up win. And in the PL format, all things considered I would be worried for majority of eSF teams.
The TRUE quote shows that there is little incentive for kespa players to practice. This again makes sense. How may hours you have to grind out in practice to get to code a? and then to code s, where you perhaps can start making money? and then to get to the top, to finally become regonized as a great player? is that effort worth the risk of the off chance that despite practice a guy beats you in a bo3 and everything gets pushed for two months, while also costing your team in PL? Compare that with a week to week exposure on tv, where you need to prepare a great build for two maps a week, and if you succeed you soon become recognized. The point that I am making is that preparation really does matter at the top level of starcraft (especially considering different map pools) and that looking at GSL results as determinant or a measure of a kespa players skill is being overly harsh on them, and perhaps skewed. No beef though
If all that is true I find it really sad, even as someone who followed Brood War and SK Telecom I find it really hard to care about kespa guys who are only playing in proleague and nothing else. Team leagues are fun but they are not the main focus for the starcraft 2 audience. If you have a whole big group of guys only playing in a bo1 format team league and nothing else you're never going to be able to tell how truly good they are, they're playing in their own little box and not facing the best players outside it. Up until now, and still now, the greatest players in Starcraft 2 are measured by their individual league achievements, and that's still going to be the case after proleague has been around for a while.
Kespa players are not going to become famous and popular in the foreign scene on the back of their proleague wins alone, they will never be appreciated in the same way as the stars of GSL ( and OSL when it comes back ) and big foreign tournaments and that's too bad. I just want to see the excuses end and see some good performances from them, they should try harder if that's what it takes.
It is sad. Not to mention that continuous focus on PL hinder players from getting to a higher level. All the map creep, counter build thing, practice BO1 for specific player all the time, really kills players' overall skill. Stats, the king of Ohana, is just a typical example of such sacrifice for team league.
It's obviously that kespa players are falling behind after PL started. Only 2 players advanced to Code S this season. Even Rain become average compared to his domination several mths ago.
Even eg-tl players are affected by this, thats why taeja, stephano wont play anymore. Of course, taeja is injured, but he surely will give up PL for individual league.
As long as SC2 is an RTS, skill will always be measured by individual achievement. Lets be frank, this is not LOL or Dota.
However, i do think kespa player will catch up after HOTS, if they put more energy in individual league like OSL.
On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote: Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify.
Sad though that MMA didnt get through
Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player.
how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy. i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above" or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^
Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify. Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players.
You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague.
GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway.
he said Flash isn't doing anything amazing compared to the other top players which is true
also, all the good kespa players are trying to qualify but they failed to do so. I don't really buy the excuse that they didn't prepare enough, if they're that much better than the B teamers not good enough to play in proleague they should be able to win without preparing, which they did in the case of rain, s2, true and shine.
Reason is SC2 is too random, anyone can win against anyone among Korean progamers. Even life and parting will have a hard time in qualifers if they are not lucky.
That last sentence killed my soul. And it would probably kill Partings if he heard that... SC2 is not THAT random, Life and Parting would blow the qualifiers away just based on their body of work.
Haha, another typical excuse for KESPA being normal. SC2 is random, so it doesn't matter anymore whether kespa are good or not.
random? of course it's random, its BO1 between average players! Random? Tell that to Life, see how he get 4 champs in one season; tell that to MKP, see how he stay in code S ro 16 for 6 seasons; tell that to gumiho, see how he managed to stay in code S for 7 seansons, tell that to Leenock, see how he bully everyone in every MLG. And see how the old names, nestea, losira, seed, alive always come back when fell
Not that I disagree with what you're saying entirely, but Code S has a lot more opportunities to stay in than getting through the Code A qualifiers. You have to lose 2 Bo3s and then 3-4 more games on top of that to move from Code S to Code A.
It is a lot harder for skilled players to enter Code A than it is for skilled players to stay in Code S.
I would say the format has changed a lot. Now its much easier to fall to code B from code S. You just lost 3 Bo3, you are in Code B. See how Jaedong did that. I would say, a considerable amout of the Code S players would fall to code B next season. Then again, it's hard to come back from code B, but see nestea come back from Code B all the way to Code S? Also, rain, alive seed went right back.Its hard, but not that hard. Players like bisu cant made out of code B for 3 seasons, theres no excuse for that. Sad bisu....
I think that without extensive GSL participation it's only the all-kill rounds that can hype up some of the unknown KeSPA players. If you miss your chance to perform really well during one of these, then you can literally be the best player on the best team, win the pro league, and have nobody care about who you are. You need repeated amazing performances to become a star, and I think currently GSL is your best bet. I also think that participating in foreign tournaments offers a good chance for a number of KeSPA players.
I don't know if SC2 is too volatile or not. I think the fact that we keep asking ourselves this question indicates that it's an issue, but in any case, it might just be the fact that the game is still in development. I do feel that many players from KeSPA are basically on the same level and it will take a few more years for them to really develop and start to differentiate in strength. In the mean time, every qualifier will be random and it will only be at the high end of performances where we will see a bit of consistency. I think Life will win this GSL, but outside of him I don't see that many consistent performances.
On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote: Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify.
Sad though that MMA didnt get through
Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player.
how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy. i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above" or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^
Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify. Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players.
You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague.
GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway.
he said Flash isn't doing anything amazing compared to the other top players which is true
also, all the good kespa players are trying to qualify but they failed to do so. I don't really buy the excuse that they didn't prepare enough, if they're that much better than the B teamers not good enough to play in proleague they should be able to win without preparing, which they did in the case of rain, s2, true and shine.
Reason is SC2 is too random, anyone can win against anyone among Korean progamers. Even life and parting will have a hard time in qualifers if they are not lucky.
That last sentence killed my soul. And it would probably kill Partings if he heard that... SC2 is not THAT random, Life and Parting would blow the qualifiers away just based on their body of work.
Haha, another typical excuse for KESPA being normal. SC2 is random, so it doesn't matter anymore whether kespa are good or not.
random? of course it's random, its BO1 between average players! Random? Tell that to Life, see how he get 4 champs in one season; tell that to MKP, see how he stay in code S ro 16 for 6 seasons; tell that to gumiho, see how he managed to stay in code S for 7 seansons, tell that to Leenock, see how he bully everyone in every MLG. And see how the old names, nestea, losira, seed, alive always come back when fell
Not that I disagree with what you're saying entirely, but Code S has a lot more opportunities to stay in than getting through the Code A qualifiers. You have to lose 2 Bo3s and then 3-4 more games on top of that to move from Code S to Code A.
It is a lot harder for skilled players to enter Code A than it is for skilled players to stay in Code S.
I remember many of us complaining about how volatile was code S at the beginning, so it was changed and now a code S and now it's the opposite. I prefer this situation, where up and coming players have to fight harder to get into the elite, and code S players have a lot of chances to remain in the elite. I'm pretty sure both systems would stabilize as time goes by (now with hots it's a different story), but as expectators we prefer the second as our heroes are not lost that often.
On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote: Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify.
Sad though that MMA didnt get through
Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player.
how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy. i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above" or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^
Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify. Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players.
You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague.
GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway.
he said Flash isn't doing anything amazing compared to the other top players which is true
also, all the good kespa players are trying to qualify but they failed to do so. I don't really buy the excuse that they didn't prepare enough, if they're that much better than the B teamers not good enough to play in proleague they should be able to win without preparing, which they did in the case of rain, s2, true and shine.
Reason is SC2 is too random, anyone can win against anyone among Korean progamers. Even life and parting will have a hard time in qualifers if they are not lucky.
That last sentence killed my soul. And it would probably kill Partings if he heard that... SC2 is not THAT random, Life and Parting would blow the qualifiers away just based on their body of work.
Haha, another typical excuse for KESPA being normal. SC2 is random, so it doesn't matter anymore whether kespa are good or not.
random? of course it's random, its BO1 between average players! Random? Tell that to Life, see how he get 4 champs in one season; tell that to MKP, see how he stay in code S ro 16 for 6 seasons; tell that to gumiho, see how he managed to stay in code S for 7 seansons, tell that to Leenock, see how he bully everyone in every MLG. And see how the old names, nestea, losira, seed, alive always come back when fell
Not that I disagree with what you're saying entirely, but Code S has a lot more opportunities to stay in than getting through the Code A qualifiers. You have to lose 2 Bo3s and then 3-4 more games on top of that to move from Code S to Code A.
It is a lot harder for skilled players to enter Code A than it is for skilled players to stay in Code S.
I remember many of us complaining about how volatile was code S at the beginning, so it was changed and now a code S and now it's the opposite. I prefer this situation, where up and coming players have to fight harder to get into the elite, and code S players have a lot of chances to remain in the elite. I'm pretty sure both systems would stabilize as time goes by (now with hots it's a different story), but as expectators we prefer the second as our heroes are not lost that often.
That's exactly the concept of Seeds in all sports and leagues.
Respect for Artosis to try to qualify considering he is a dad now and the code-a qualifiers are even harder with more kespa players in them instead of 'random dudes who dont have a team but are still really really good'. : (
On January 31 2013 05:35 derpface wrote: Wouldnt have mattered if Bisu would have qualified because Shine did aswell.
LOL Bisu.. this time failing in the qualifiers to a Terran? Man he's fallen hard.
Really interesting to see all the strong players that didn't make it through. Poor MMA. ;;
Also, any hints as to who 최성일 might be? TLPD links to this empty profile: ChoiSungIl. Coming out of nowhere and beating up dreamertt and Lucky... will keep an eye out for him for sure. ^^
EPT
