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On January 30 2013 18:58 CoR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote:Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify. Sad though that MMA didnt get through  Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player. how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy. i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above" or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^
Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify.
Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone
For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players.
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United Kingdom12023 Posts
On January 30 2013 23:48 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 23:30 GGQ wrote:
No worries, Bisu. We'll get it next time. I've been saying this for the last 3 qualifiers /sigh hopefully for hots...
Bisu clearly going to prefer stargate style in HoTS. Dem oracles under his control o_o
Also cheaper DT tech.
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2nd season in a row Bisu in last round >.<
And this time a lot less impressive than last just by looking at the bracket
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Isn't Bisu and qualifiers supposed to be standard this way? He still needs a seed no matter what tournament it is :D
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United States97276 Posts
On January 31 2013 00:03 ragz_gt wrote:
2nd season in a row Bisu in last round >.<
And this time a lot less impressive than last just by looking at the bracket
he got eliminated early last time. it was 2 seasons ago that he was in the finals
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On January 30 2013 23:54 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 18:58 CoR wrote:On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote:Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify. Sad though that MMA didnt get through Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player. how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy. i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above" or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^ Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify. Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players.
You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague.
GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway.
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8 foreigners entered and all of them got 0-2'ed during the first round.
I expected Thorzain to take a few games at least...
And respect to cArn for trying for so long, sick perseverance :O
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On January 31 2013 00:40 Elroi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 23:54 ETisME wrote:On January 30 2013 18:58 CoR wrote:On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote:Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify. Sad though that MMA didnt get through Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player. how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy. i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above" or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^ Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify. Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players. You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague. GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway.
he said Flash isn't doing anything amazing compared to the other top players which is true
also, all the good kespa players are trying to qualify but they failed to do so. I don't really buy the excuse that they didn't prepare enough, if they're that much better than the B teamers not good enough to play in proleague they should be able to win without preparing, which they did in the case of rain, s2, true and shine.
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sucks that MMA & crank fell out
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On January 31 2013 00:48 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 00:40 Elroi wrote:On January 30 2013 23:54 ETisME wrote:On January 30 2013 18:58 CoR wrote:On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote:Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify. Sad though that MMA didnt get through Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player. how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy. i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above" or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^ Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify. Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players. You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague. GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway. he said Flash isn't doing anything amazing compared to the other top players which is true also, all the good kespa players are trying to qualify but they failed to do so. I don't really buy the excuse that they didn't prepare enough, if they're that much better than the B teamers not good enough to play in proleague they should be able to win without preparing, which they did in the case of rain, s2, true and shine.
Reason is SC2 is too random, anyone can win against anyone among Korean progamers. Even life and parting will have a hard time in qualifers if they are not lucky.
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On January 31 2013 00:48 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 00:40 Elroi wrote:On January 30 2013 23:54 ETisME wrote:On January 30 2013 18:58 CoR wrote:On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote:Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify. Sad though that MMA didnt get through Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player. how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy. i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above" or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^ Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify. Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players. You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague. GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway. he said Flash isn't doing anything amazing compared to the other top players which is true also, all the good kespa players are trying to qualify but they failed to do so. I don't really buy the excuse that they didn't prepare enough, if they're that much better than the B teamers not good enough to play in proleague they should be able to win without preparing, which they did in the case of rain, s2, true and shine.
I have got mad respect for you man, but i think you are wrong. At the kespa (regardless of is it high/ low) their skills are veeery similar between each other, i think at least last weeks results confirm this statement. You also cannot deny, and that is with 100% certainty that between PL and GSL, if they HAVE to chose, PL teams will focus/ dedicate more time to PL practice than GSL. This is a no brainer, and whilst several other things effect the amount of practice that will get put into GSL (like the teams current standing in PL), GSL will never be a priority for ace players on the teams, unless we are talking grand final of code S, or there is simply no OSL/PL around at that point. But as 2 leagues are running at the same time right now, the teams focus much more on PL than GSL, simply because to them it is much more important. And then they go on to play in GSL, ofcourse with some strategies in mind, but on maps that they practice much less (considering the differences between GSL and PL map pool), and against opponents that have done nothing for the past week or two practicing specifically for GSL. It thus becomes a lottery of skill and luck and preperation in a funky algorithm where some players make it through to code S round of 16 like roro while others like stats dont make it into code A, though i dont think one can argue that roro is so much better than stats (or wooki, or i am sure many others).
TLDR: Top level starcraft is to close to call reliably, and with a busy schedule teams will prioritize. First according to event (PL>GSL) than according to specific players (is he playing in PL this week?). Then people will have a specified level of preperation, making them either more or less likely to win. Has very little to do with players being "better" or "worse" at this point.
P.S Shine is terrible as well, he basically lost to a first timer this week, except he was too scared to attack with 20roaches vs a spine and a couple of lings, have to trade him of FPL asap. He has like a 2-6 record in pl? Kespa players should never ever be judged by GSL results, they have so little meaning. Lets wait till an OSL or WCS comes around, then maybe we can compare better. Using GSL as indication is silly in their case
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Sorry not to check all thread, but who is EG_HyunG ?
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Wait, so Bisu lost to a B-teamer from his own team???
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Shine's grandma was at prelims?
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On January 31 2013 01:17 warmus wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 00:48 Dodgin wrote:On January 31 2013 00:40 Elroi wrote:On January 30 2013 23:54 ETisME wrote:On January 30 2013 18:58 CoR wrote:On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote:Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify. Sad though that MMA didnt get through Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player. how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy. i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above" or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^ Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify. Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players. You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague. GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway. he said Flash isn't doing anything amazing compared to the other top players which is true also, all the good kespa players are trying to qualify but they failed to do so. I don't really buy the excuse that they didn't prepare enough, if they're that much better than the B teamers not good enough to play in proleague they should be able to win without preparing, which they did in the case of rain, s2, true and shine. I have got mad respect for you man, but i think you are wrong. At the kespa (regardless of is it high/ low) their skills are veeery similar between each other, i think at least last weeks results confirm this statement. You also cannot deny, and that is with 100% certainty that between PL and GSL, if they HAVE to chose, PL teams will focus/ dedicate more time to PL practice than GSL. This is a no brainer, and whilst several other things effect the amount of practice that will get put into GSL (like the teams current standing in PL), GSL will never be a priority for ace players on the teams, unless we are talking grand final of code S, or there is simply no OSL/PL around at that point. But as 2 leagues are running at the same time right now, the teams focus much more on PL than GSL, simply because to them it is much more important. And then they go on to play in GSL, ofcourse with some strategies in mind, but on maps that they practice much less (considering the differences between GSL and PL map pool), and against opponents that have done nothing for the past week or two practicing specifically for GSL. It thus becomes a lottery of skill and luck and preperation in a funky algorithm where some players make it through to code S round of 16 like roro while others like stats dont make it into code A, though i dont think one can argue that roro is so much better than stats (or wooki, or i am sure many others). TLDR: Top level starcraft is to close to call reliably, and with a busy schedule teams will prioritize. First according to event (PL>GSL) than according to specific players (is he playing in PL this week?). Then people will have a specified level of preperation, making them either more or less likely to win. Has very little to do with players being "better" or "worse" at this point. P.S Shine is terrible as well, he basically lost to a first timer this week, except he was too scared to attack with 20roaches vs a spine and a couple of lings, have to trade him of FPL asap. He has like a 2-6 record in pl? Kespa players should never ever be judged by GSL results, they have so little meaning. Lets wait till an OSL or WCS comes around, then maybe we can compare better. Using GSL as indication is silly in their case
I guess that is true in reverse for EG-TL, they care about GSL more. So we shouldn't judge their PL performance.
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On January 31 2013 01:15 FineAndDandy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 00:48 Dodgin wrote:On January 31 2013 00:40 Elroi wrote:On January 30 2013 23:54 ETisME wrote:On January 30 2013 18:58 CoR wrote:On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote:Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify. Sad though that MMA didnt get through Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player. how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy. i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above" or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^ Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify. Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players. You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague. GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway. he said Flash isn't doing anything amazing compared to the other top players which is true also, all the good kespa players are trying to qualify but they failed to do so. I don't really buy the excuse that they didn't prepare enough, if they're that much better than the B teamers not good enough to play in proleague they should be able to win without preparing, which they did in the case of rain, s2, true and shine. Reason is SC2 is too random, anyone can win against anyone among Korean progamers. Even life and parting will have a hard time in qualifers if they are not lucky.
I don't agree, seed and rain made it back into gsl right away after falling out last season, nestea made it back right away after falling out in season 4.
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On January 31 2013 01:15 FineAndDandy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 00:48 Dodgin wrote:On January 31 2013 00:40 Elroi wrote:On January 30 2013 23:54 ETisME wrote:On January 30 2013 18:58 CoR wrote:On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote:Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify. Sad though that MMA didnt get through Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player. how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy. i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above" or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^ Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify. Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players. You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague. GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway. he said Flash isn't doing anything amazing compared to the other top players which is true also, all the good kespa players are trying to qualify but they failed to do so. I don't really buy the excuse that they didn't prepare enough, if they're that much better than the B teamers not good enough to play in proleague they should be able to win without preparing, which they did in the case of rain, s2, true and shine. Reason is SC2 is too random, anyone can win against anyone among Korean progamers. Even life and parting will have a hard time in qualifers if they are not lucky.
I agree with you. BW is about skill, strategy and understanding of the game. Top masters like Jaedong, Flash and Bisu developed this and can win almost everyone. However, in SC2 it is not like this. The strategy has more influence than any other factors. At pro level almost anyone can win other pro. Because they have reached skill which is enough. After this, It is more mind game. Like rock paper scissors. Bisu wasn't lucky. Next time maybe he can be lucky.
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On January 31 2013 01:25 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 01:17 warmus wrote:On January 31 2013 00:48 Dodgin wrote:On January 31 2013 00:40 Elroi wrote:On January 30 2013 23:54 ETisME wrote:On January 30 2013 18:58 CoR wrote:On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote:Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify. Sad though that MMA didnt get through Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player. how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy. i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above" or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^ Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify. Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players. You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague. GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway. he said Flash isn't doing anything amazing compared to the other top players which is true also, all the good kespa players are trying to qualify but they failed to do so. I don't really buy the excuse that they didn't prepare enough, if they're that much better than the B teamers not good enough to play in proleague they should be able to win without preparing, which they did in the case of rain, s2, true and shine. I have got mad respect for you man, but i think you are wrong. At the kespa (regardless of is it high/ low) their skills are veeery similar between each other, i think at least last weeks results confirm this statement. You also cannot deny, and that is with 100% certainty that between PL and GSL, if they HAVE to chose, PL teams will focus/ dedicate more time to PL practice than GSL. This is a no brainer, and whilst several other things effect the amount of practice that will get put into GSL (like the teams current standing in PL), GSL will never be a priority for ace players on the teams, unless we are talking grand final of code S, or there is simply no OSL/PL around at that point. But as 2 leagues are running at the same time right now, the teams focus much more on PL than GSL, simply because to them it is much more important. And then they go on to play in GSL, ofcourse with some strategies in mind, but on maps that they practice much less (considering the differences between GSL and PL map pool), and against opponents that have done nothing for the past week or two practicing specifically for GSL. It thus becomes a lottery of skill and luck and preperation in a funky algorithm where some players make it through to code S round of 16 like roro while others like stats dont make it into code A, though i dont think one can argue that roro is so much better than stats (or wooki, or i am sure many others). TLDR: Top level starcraft is to close to call reliably, and with a busy schedule teams will prioritize. First according to event (PL>GSL) than according to specific players (is he playing in PL this week?). Then people will have a specified level of preperation, making them either more or less likely to win. Has very little to do with players being "better" or "worse" at this point. P.S Shine is terrible as well, he basically lost to a first timer this week, except he was too scared to attack with 20roaches vs a spine and a couple of lings, have to trade him of FPL asap. He has like a 2-6 record in pl? Kespa players should never ever be judged by GSL results, they have so little meaning. Lets wait till an OSL or WCS comes around, then maybe we can compare better. Using GSL as indication is silly in their case I guess that is true in reverse for EG-TL, they care about GSL more. So we shouldn't judge their PL performance.
Well you can, in fact its hard not to- it has been terrible. So has been the PERFORMANCE of kespa players in GSL- underwhelming? not elephantish? wtvr but the point is the same for both EGTL and kespa. These performances are not in any way an objective measures of a players skill, but only under the assumption that they participate in both (thus there would be no excuse for a puma). I shouldn't have to explain this, i think its fairly obvious. Too many factors that we dont know about can possibly effect the outcome to make any judgement on better and worse players. Though i have little incentive in persuading you guys, i hope by all means you will trade stats for shine or zero for alone, please make those trades, I need to jump back up in rankings after this week.
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On January 31 2013 01:25 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 01:17 warmus wrote:On January 31 2013 00:48 Dodgin wrote:On January 31 2013 00:40 Elroi wrote:On January 30 2013 23:54 ETisME wrote:On January 30 2013 18:58 CoR wrote:On January 30 2013 18:56 derpface wrote:Yes BISU didnt get through!!!! Even though it was pretty mich a given he wouldnt qualify. Sad though that MMA didnt get through Also lol at Artosis being named a notable player. how can ANYBODY be happy bisu not get trough ? even if not on best, so much history/drama and potencial in this guy. i mean what you want "oh here a new guy i dont knoiw vs a guy we said all above" or "hey bisu he is blablabla" so much to say to fill start time of a game ^^ Coming from a non bw background, I just hope to have a better skilled player to qualify. Much better to see good players playing amazingly than a famous player playing average level and completely disappoint everyone For example everyone says flash is god etc, but he isn't really doing anything all that amazing compared to other top players. You probably don't watch proleague if you say that. Flash is an amazing player in Proleague. GSL is a tournament that the KeSPA players don't care very much about. Look at who qualified in code A: mostly b-teamers who don't practice for PL because they aren't good enough to be sent out anyway. he said Flash isn't doing anything amazing compared to the other top players which is true also, all the good kespa players are trying to qualify but they failed to do so. I don't really buy the excuse that they didn't prepare enough, if they're that much better than the B teamers not good enough to play in proleague they should be able to win without preparing, which they did in the case of rain, s2, true and shine. I have got mad respect for you man, but i think you are wrong. At the kespa (regardless of is it high/ low) their skills are veeery similar between each other, i think at least last weeks results confirm this statement. You also cannot deny, and that is with 100% certainty that between PL and GSL, if they HAVE to chose, PL teams will focus/ dedicate more time to PL practice than GSL. This is a no brainer, and whilst several other things effect the amount of practice that will get put into GSL (like the teams current standing in PL), GSL will never be a priority for ace players on the teams, unless we are talking grand final of code S, or there is simply no OSL/PL around at that point. But as 2 leagues are running at the same time right now, the teams focus much more on PL than GSL, simply because to them it is much more important. And then they go on to play in GSL, ofcourse with some strategies in mind, but on maps that they practice much less (considering the differences between GSL and PL map pool), and against opponents that have done nothing for the past week or two practicing specifically for GSL. It thus becomes a lottery of skill and luck and preperation in a funky algorithm where some players make it through to code S round of 16 like roro while others like stats dont make it into code A, though i dont think one can argue that roro is so much better than stats (or wooki, or i am sure many others). TLDR: Top level starcraft is to close to call reliably, and with a busy schedule teams will prioritize. First according to event (PL>GSL) than according to specific players (is he playing in PL this week?). Then people will have a specified level of preperation, making them either more or less likely to win. Has very little to do with players being "better" or "worse" at this point. P.S Shine is terrible as well, he basically lost to a first timer this week, except he was too scared to attack with 20roaches vs a spine and a couple of lings, have to trade him of FPL asap. He has like a 2-6 record in pl? Kespa players should never ever be judged by GSL results, they have so little meaning. Lets wait till an OSL or WCS comes around, then maybe we can compare better. Using GSL as indication is silly in their case I guess that is true in reverse for EG-TL, they care about GSL more. So we shouldn't judge their PL performance.
Yes, that could be said about EGTL as well. They are the worst team in PL right now iirc while at the same time having a decent GSL record. It is obvious that being in code S doesn't mean anything in Proleague.
But at the same time, EGTL have a roster that is sufficiently huge to not play a guy who is in GSL up to two weeks before his games. The idea of merging the teams was to make it possible for the players to prepare for both.
This is what True said in his interview after advancing to code A:
Proleague ended so late yesterday that it actually said 1:00am when I looked at the time. I was so tired that I just went to bed. I only prepared on Arkanoid for Proleague so I was worried that I was going to show a bad performance for the qualifiers. But I saw the large number of fans who came to see us play even though it wasn't even Proleague, and I even got a beverage from one of them so I told myself that I had to avoid getting pathetically eliminated.
Isn't it obvious that this guy doesn't care very much for GSL compared to PL?
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EPT
